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What's going on everybody? I'm Marah. And I'm Tez. And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. Woo! Let's go ahead and just jump right into this week. So let's get into our players.
First, we have 78-year-old Ruth Pelk. She is a formal Bible school teacher, and she is white. She is our victim. We have Denise Thomas, who is an accomplice. April Beverly, another accomplice. Karen Corder, who's called Pookie.
an accomplice, and Paula Cooper, our murderess. Paula was born in 1969 to Gloria and Herman Cooper in Michigan City. Gloria had her eldest daughter, Rhonda, in a previous relationship three years earlier. Around 1976, the family moved to Gary, Indiana. Ms. Cooper worked as a lab technician at a hospital, and Mr. Cooper was constantly between jobs at U.S. Steel Corps.
They always do. Right.
mrs cooper worked long hours to support her household and her girls often went over to the neighbor mrs bradford's house to eat dinner and watch tv until their mom got home when mr cooper was home he was abusing his wife and the children they were disciplined with anything from his fists to electric cords it appeared to mrs cooper's family that she was dealing with the abuse with alcohol
she'd gotten so depressed she wanted to kill herself her kids rhonda at this point fourteen and paula eleven were aware of their mother's feelings and figured if their mom had nothing to live for neither did they mrs cooper got her children in a car in the garage she waited for her kids to fall asleep and turned on the engine
After a while, she changed her mind and took her girls in the house. Paula awoke to find her mom coughing on the front yard. In 1982, the abuse was just too much for Rhonda, so at the age of 14, she dropped out of school and left home. Paula was left alone to take the brunt of her father's abuse. This was the turning point for Paula's behavior. She became truant and started getting into fights. She started to run away.
And in June 23rd, 1983, Paula was sent to an alternative house, which was a center for kids like 13 through 17 that were from troubled homes or were getting into trouble. And many of them at that home were physically and sexually abused. After six days, Paula was kicked out for allegedly threatening another resident and staff member with a knife.
They sent her to Lake County Juvenile Center for the first time, but it was far from her last. Things had gotten so bad that when she tried to return to the alternative house a year later, they refused to let her back in. From there, she bounced back and forth from juvie to foster homes. And by December, she was kicked out of a Mayflower home for neglected girls for skipping school
but the director described her as likable, energetic, and liked to have fun. She believed Paula's issue with school was that she bounced around a lot and probably found it hard to fit in. December '84 rolled around and she moved in with her aunt back in Michigan City, but by April she was back in the home and enrolled in Lew Wallace High School. She quickly became known as a bully, but she was able to acquire a few friends. Her crew consisted of Karen,
and Denise Karen was also known as Pookie now Karen also known as Pookie she was the oldest in a little crew just like April Karen's mom also died when she was 11 two years later she gave birth to her son while she was still in junior high school
Now, Pookie often bragged to one of the security officers at the school. His name was Mr. William Kennedy, that she was a part of a gang. And she even taught him this secret handshake and greeted him every day. Pookie's godmom said that when she lived with Pookie, she was a sweet girl. She was a leader, not a follower. Now, Denise. Denise was the baby of the bunch. She was only 14 years old. She was quiet and she was really timid.
Though separated, both her parents were still very involved in her life. When her grades dropped, her mom put her on punishment and she had to go like straight home. But then she found this crew and she started getting caught up in the wrong crowd. The girls' idea of fun was like skipping school, smoking weed, drinking wine, hitting licks. And after robbing a house, they would leave with $90 and the girls were just eager for hitting their next lick. On May 13th, the girls got together at lunch to discuss who they should hit next.
This is Paula's first time actually meeting April in person. April Beverly is 15 years old and five months pregnant.
Her mom died of a stroke four years earlier and that's when it seemed she started to lose her way. She was the youngest of 11 and her dad was in and out of her life. Since her mom's passing, she's lived with him and his new wife. A year earlier, she ended up getting expelled from high school for a year for attacking another student. She was facing a juvenile battery charge and from there she bounced back and forth between her dad's and her family home where her eldest sister looked after the rest of the siblings. April mentioned she had a neighbor who lived behind her. The home belonged to Ruth Pelkey.
April's old Sunday school teacher. Now, Ruth lived in her home over 40 years. It was a lower middle class neighborhood. She was very pious and spent her years teaching inner city kids eight and under Bible lessons once a week. She ended up teaching hundreds of kids, but her husband passed away in 1983. She decided to retire.
The neighborhood she once knew was beginning to change. Her once white neighborhood was now becoming a little mixed race. That didn't bother her because she loved everyone. She was a woman of the Lord. Her stepson, Robert, however, was getting a bit concerned. Crime in the area was starting to increase and she was burglarized already about five times, twice in the last two years.
once while she was asleep inside of the house so robert was like look you need to get out of this neighborhood please just come live with us and she was like no no i've got good neighbors you know and when i leave i'm going to see the lord like i'm not leaving my house any other way april told the girls she must have money because when her mom died she was always making food for them she was always passing out treats to the kids who memorized bible verses and she was said to have a jar full of two dollar bills
Everyone agreed and skipped the last period to execute this plan. Paula already had a note from her mom saying that she needed to leave early to refill her birth control prescription. Afterwards, the girls all met up at April's house, which
which was only three bucks from the school. They smoked a little weed, drank a little Wild Irish, and headed to Ruth's house. Before leaving, Paula grabbed a 12-inch butcher knife and a heavy wrench out the kitchen. It was around 3.15. The girls walk over to the house, and they knock on Ms. Ruth's door, where a sign hung that read, The owner of this property is armed. There's nothing inside worth risking your life for. That's a good sign. Right. There's nothing in here worth risking your life for. That's a good sign.
Recognizing April, she opens the door. The girls ask Ms. Roof if she can give them Bible lessons. This makes her smile and she says, Well, I don't do it anymore, but come on in. I know a lady and I'll look up her telephone number for you. She bent over a dress door to look for a number and was hit upside the head with a vase. Ms. Roof falls to the ground. They pull the phone out the wall and Paula takes off her jacket and lays it on the couch. She grabs the knife and holds it up to Ms. Roof's chest. April stood watch on the back porch.
Paula ordered Ms. Roof to tell her where the money was and give her the car keys. "Where's the money, bitch?" Ms. Roof refuses to tell her, saying, "You're not gonna kill me." So Paula thrusts the knife inside of her chest.
It seemed as though Paula blacked out, stabbing and slashing her all over. Now, on the floor, bleeding out, Miss Ruth begins to recite the Lord's Prayer. Paula continues on, raging and stabbing. The girls yell for her to stop. Paula's like, yo, Pookie, come hold her down while I look for this money. Pookie grabs the knife and while still holding it at her side, continues to ask her where's the money. Pookie begins to almost play with the knife, wiggling it, pushing it deeper to see how far it can go.
Miss Ruth is just moaning at this point. Pookie grabs a towel and puts it over her face, trying to smother her, stating, The bitch won't die. Miss Ruth survived this attack for about 30 minutes, but eventually passed on. The girls leave the house in Miss Ruth's 1977 blue Plymouth with all of $10. Karen asks Paula to let her out.
Denise also asked to be dropped off. Paula and April went to a convenience store to spend the $10 where they bought orange soda and snack cakes and then proceeded to a food store in Hammond where Paula dropped the knife underneath some bushes in the drive-thru. They scoop up April's boyfriend and they're riding around, they're drinking and smoking and they basically stay out in that car for two days. They slept in that car, they rode around in that car for two days straight until it ran out of gas.
So on May 15th, 1985, Mrs. Ruth's body had been discovered. Robert came by the following day to check on her and found her lying dead. And the crime scene is brutal. You can only imagine. There is blood sprayed everywhere. She was just three days from turning 79.
the neighborhood was shook if i mean like they were all thinking how could anyone hurt this sweet old church going lady and it was like crime was increasing but like this her but she was already a staple in the community as like the sweet old white lady that gave candy to the kids that learned like every she taught everybody's kids
in Sunday school. Everybody in the neighborhood. So, but the neighbors, they said that they saw four girls riding around in what looked like to be Mrs. Ruth's car. So the people really, so people were, you know, at least being aware.
Police investigated the scene. Mrs. Ruth had been stabbed a total of 33 times. Some of Ruth's wounds looked like saw marks. Others were so deep they went through her and onto the carpet, chipping the floorboard. The house was ransacked, but police found a white jacket lying on the couch. In the pocket was a prescription for birth control.
Of course, the name on the bottle read Paula Cooper. Cops tried to identify her and locate her and then they receive a call at the police station. Mrs. Cooper was reporting her daughter missing again.
The girls had been at school bragging about what they had done. They seemed unremorseful and even like proud. On May 16th, the cops arrested all of the girls. Two at school and a guardian brought in the other two. The state prosecutor wanted to try them as adults and give them all the death penalty.
Pookie was 16, so she was automatically being tried as one, but the other girls had to go through a hearing with the juvenile court to decide. The courts let them all be tried as adults. At first, they were all facing the death penalty, but later the prosecution dropped it for Denise without comment. And you remember Denise is the youngest. She's the 14 year old. Right. She's the baby. She's 14. So I'm also like, okay, you know, she's really young. Yeah.
the judge on all the girls cases was judge kimbrough out of the four criminal judges in the county he was the most lenient he didn't believe in the death penalty and he was determined to give the girls as fair a trial as possible
and he was black so there's that. On July 25th April Beverly had her baby in the jail which I can't even imagine. She was transferred to the women's prison when she was having complications but she was quickly returned like just under a month back to the jail because y'all know prison is better than jail. So now it's September 1985 the
Denise is first up for trial. Her lawyer wanted a speedy trial because he wanted the jury to see how young she was at the time of the murder. He didn't want her to have a chance to age and for them to lose sympathy. I get that because 14, like, especially depending on when she's about to turn 15, that 13, 14, 15, 16, you're really starting to develop. And there is a big difference. Like, I'm just thinking about myself. There's a big difference from when
I was 16 versus when I was 14 and two years is you have a right to speedy trial, but usually people are getting on trial after like two years. Right. When I first saw this date, I was like, this is the same year as the murder.
Yeah, so I can understand the urgency just because it's going to help. But if you see an older girl in front of you and you have to remind them that she was 14 and she looked like a baby at the time, it's harder to get a jury to be on your side. So I get it. Three days into her trial, they declared it a mistrial. Detective William Kennedy, the guy who worked at the school, he offered three of the jurors who were stranded a ride home. Before getting in the car, he informed them that they can't talk about the case and they didn't. But the judge, Judge Kimbrough,
The judge was like, listen, I'm going to have to rule this a mistrial because even, you know, you say you didn't talk to them about the case and they say they don't talk that you didn't talk to them about the case. And that may be true, but you've now biased the jury by doing a helpful act. So they see you as like more trustworthy than they would have. You just a guy here. You know what I mean? So it's declared a mistrial. They had to throw it out.
So then back to your point, you know, her birthday was in between the two dates. She didn't get her next child until November and she had turned 15 in between September and November.
Right, so her new child came around pretty quickly. She argues that she wasn't really a part of the crime. In fact, she thought this was just a robbery and that she was just the lookout and she was there against her will. Her parents were so surprised to find her in this position. Her mom hadn't even been aware that she was skipping school and stated, I am not responsible if she leaves home and gets into something like that when I think she is at school, which I guess. Like, I mean...
Yeah, you feel like she's the school responsibility, but she's always your responsibility. Right. And that is the reason why my mom was like, don't be out here embarrassing me even when I'm not around. You know, like you are who you are when no one is watching. You know, Denise's team argued that she was merely a bystander. She had no idea that Paula even had a knife. Prosecutors say that this can't be true because the vase that was used to hit Mrs. Ruth had her fingerprints on it.
It was also said that she was heard having conversations with Paula about the attack and ended those conversations with laughter. On November 7th, she was convicted for murder and was sentenced to 35 years. Judge Kimbrough was very emotional at this sentencing. He hadn't been sleeping well. His decision was like, you know, weighing on him. He said, quote,
I've been asking myself in the past weeks, months, what is a reasonable age to deal with people as adults in felony cases and I don't know. We are considering adult charges against a 13 year old accused of murder? The question goes on. Will there be a 12 year old next year? Where will it stop? I do not observe a significant degree of remorse, maybe because of her immaturity. 14 year olds are normally more mature than I see in this defendant.
The age at which many good things happen to one are all going to occur when she is in prison, and that pains me. I cannot help but cry for Denise."
Thank you so much, Judge. I appreciate the genuine concern, you know. Right, because you were judging on if this 14-year-old girl is going to spend her entire adulthood in prison behind bars. And what does that do? How is that going to weigh on somebody, you know? At 14, you know how fast she's going to be. Like, that's going to be a blip in her life. Right.
Right. So I think it should be a heavy decision. Okay, next to stand trial was April and January. It was argued that she was the lookout, but she possibly supplied the knife. She sets up to take a plea deal for a lesser charge of robbery in connection with murder, which they finally accepted on June 23rd, 1986. On July 23rd, she was sentenced to 25 years.
Then it was Pookie's turn. Pookie also wanted a plea deal, but the prosecution had nothing to offer her. Like, they was hellbent on giving these girls the death penalty. On March 26th, she pleaded guilty to murder and felony murder without any conditions, which basically means, like, the prosecution is not giving her anything. But by pleading guilty without the conditions...
She doesn't have to face a jury, so it leaves it just to Judge Kimbrough to decide her fate, which I'd probably prefer that since he seems so invested, like, you know, fair. Right, he seems at least like he is caring about the well-being and the future of these girls. At her sentencing, she spoke and she was like, I want to live for my four-year-old son to show society that I'm not as bad as they think I am. She wanted to get an education and turn her life around. She hadn't seen her dad or son in months, but she said she still loves him.
She speaks on to other girls. I pray to the Lord for them and for me too, to seek forgiveness for what I have done. Robert, Ruth's stepson, doubted the sincerity and asked for the maximum sentence. Her defense argued, is the only solution to execute our children? Judge Kimbrough sentenced her to a maximum of 60 years. Her lawyers hoped to get 50 or less, but they were happy to have spared her life. She would be eligible for parole in 30 years. Rob said,
So the Lord saw fear to spare her life. So be it. Okay, Rob. Lastly, we're at Paula's trial. On April 21st, 1986, Paula also gave an unconditional plea, leaving the decision to Judge Kimbrough. She was set to be sentenced on June 2nd, but it was a delay due to rumors that she had sex with someone in the jail staff and that now she might be pregnant, which...
scandalous scandalous right so they were trying to figure out what would this mean for paula would a pregnancy put her at the mercy of the court or would she have the alleged baby and then be executed because they were trying to figure out like what was going to happen to her an internal investigation was open and the ceo named bernard rouser who was 25 was asked to quit it wasn't yet confirmed that they had sex but it was confirmed that he was on the women's side of the jail which was against the rules
Not against the law, just against the rules. Just against the rules, right. At first, Paula denied these allegations out of fear, but finally confessed to a sexual relationship with two guards and a recreational therapist.
A second internal investigation was ordered. Parmalay Range resigned after taking a polygraph on June 18. The therapist, Michael Lampe, refused to take a polygraph under orders from his lawyer, but he denied ever having sex with Paula. Other staff members were fired or suspended because they weren't on post and lied to cover it up. If they were there, the men wouldn't have gotten to Paula.
Finally, Bernard and Parmley admitted to having sex with Paula. While it wasn't illegal for COs to have sex with an inmate, it was against the rules of the jail. But here's the thing. What is illegal is you having sex with an underage girl. Okay? So in Indiana, the age of consent is 16. And Paula was...
wasn't 16 until August 25th 1985 so like May 17th right so she had been in the jail for a while while being age 15 which is not the age of consent investigators gathered that she had sex at least seven times between August and May the investigators now had to determine if molestation charges would be pressed did the sex in August happen before or after she turned 16 you know
On June 19th, Paula takes a pregnancy test. On June 24th, she was determined not to be pregnant. On July 3rd, Parlamay admits to having sex with Paula on August 8th.
Remember, her birthday is August 25th. So she was still 15. Pookie, who like, I guess shared a wall with Paula in the jailhouse. And another inmate, they confirmed these allegations. They were like, yeah, we saw it. It's true. We hear it all the time. The jail hires a panel of people to review the policy and procedures to figure out ways to better protect the women. Because I guess they didn't think about protecting the women beforehand. Because, you know...
Just because they're criminal... Just because you're a criminal does not mean that you should not be protected by the law. If they're keeping you alive and they're supposed to be housing you and this is a federal facility, it is your job to keep me safe. You can't even... The lethal injection has to be, like...
they stopped this, they stopped somebody getting injected because the thing looked cloudy. Like it was going to harm him dying or something. You know what I mean? Like, and so if that has to be that precise, like you should make sure that nobody's able to get in here and have sex with 15 year old people. And even then it's just, I feel like it's rapey if it's a power dynamic. You know what I'm saying? And it's very much a power dynamic.
dynamic not only the CO but the therapist like are you serious like that's somebody that is supposed to be able to come in and you're supposed to be able to bare your soul to and you're supposed to be able to you know really help you but really what they do is they see the pain and they take advantage of that and that's fucked up
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Back to the show. July 11th is Paula's new sentencing date. She's hoping to avoid death, but Judge Kimbrough put himself in a tough position by giving Pookie the maximum sentence. It's clear that Paula was the ringleader and deserved the harshest punishment out of the four. Would he break his morals and sentence her to death, or would he spare her life? He gave her death. This affected the judge...
very heavily he's like i don't believe i'll ever be the same after these cases they made me come to grips with the question of whether a judge can uphold his personal beliefs inconsistent with the law we were sworn which i can see that being a very tough decision like he was firmly against the death penalty so for him to have to give it to somebody right you take an oath to uphold the law but like the reason judges are able to have some discernment and i
I feel you but it's also like it's still a child I feel that he has been through this is his third time going through this thing you know what I'm saying he was the judge over all the cases you heard Denise's story you heard from the lawyers everybody's pinpointing her as the worst one you know what I mean like it's all over the newspapers that she is the ringleader so knowing that and I really
feels like pookie is the real ringleader listen but i just feel like knowing that wouldn't you give pookie a lesser sentence so that you could spare her life right you know that she's coming you know what i'm saying yeah it's not like it came out of nowhere like i get it's different because she's connected with so many other people but like you know what's coming so at this point paula became the first juvenile in modern american history to receive the death penalty and at the time was the youngest person to receive the death penalty
Robert was very happy with this decision. He said, I think the ruling of the judge was justifiable and satisfactory. He was like, every single one of them girls deserves the most that you can throw at them. So if that's the, if death was the most, then so be death, you know? Mm.
Ronald Williams was the father of Paula's half-sister, Rhonda. And he spoke and he was just like, I don't think that you should give kids the death penalty, but it is what it is. Her sentencing was automatically sent to the Indiana Supreme Court for review. In July, the American Civil Liberties Union...
or ACLU, promised to fight to save Paula's life. The ACLU is part of a coalition that works to see that those on death row get the fullest measure of relief. We will do everything possible for Paula. We will work to save her life whether she wants us to or not. This state has the lowest threshold for the death penalty out of the 38 states that allow it. If society thinks it's getting tough on crime by executing minors, it's wrong. The death penalty perpetuates crime. It's a horrendous cycle of vengeance,
and violence that's unending. Kids from the alternative house said that it was fair. They were like, killing is an adult crime and she should take adult punishment. A 16-year-old from the home said she thought she was better than everybody. She would rob them and then brag about it. I knew she beat up people and I thought she would stab somebody, but not kill them. Another acquaintance of Paula said she sometimes said she felt like killing people. She acted like she was serious and I've seen her fight a lot of times. I never thought she'd
kill anybody. Alicia Merritt, who knew April, said Paula should have got what the rest of them got. She should have been given a life sentence and she should have been made to suffer. Which I completely understand. Like, as a child, like, you're gonna just execute them. Like, if you're gonna give them max, like, life, okay. 25 to life, okay. Other people were like,
Look, she's got a lot of life left. She's very young. She's too young to die. But a childcare worker at the house said, this is not going to send any kind of message whatsoever. I believe she was sentenced to death long ago by her family. Paula has been in trouble forever and has had the benefit of all the social services Indiana can provide. But on the other hand,
hand Paula has been through hell it's a wonder it didn't happen long ago which it's like the abuse becomes the abuser you know what I'm saying and here we are once again where this young girl has been just tossed around from place to place it seems like she's helpless you're treating her like she's helpless and then you're wondering how on earth this happened I was reading one of the articles for the case and a
Psychiatrist or something commented And he was like a lot of times You see that the criminals Are abused kids and then What you see with abused kids Is that they're acting out what happens Is like you already have teenage angst You know what I'm saying like it's always The teenage fight with the parents and yada yada Yada
But when there's abuse and it's just compounded on top of each other, that teenage angst becomes teenage hate. And, you know, with your parents being the abuser, you're not going to go up against them. So you find yourself a weaker target, which tends to be other children or elderly people. And remember Rhonda, who was Paula's sister, left at a pretty early age. She was interviewed and she said, quote, I was lucky to find someone to talk to. But she thinks that the abuse affected Paula a lot.
And then when Rhonda left, Paula just got in with the wrong crowd. Rhonda said, And you know what it is? You think it's the 80s. It in the 80s, the time of the latchkey kid. Like, parents are out working, not really home, and the kids are left to raise themselves. And then when you compound that with, when they are home, you're getting beat the fuck up. Like,
They said the dad was sexually abusing the mom in front of the kids. Like, he's beating on them. She's drinking to cover her pain. Like, they didn't teach her how to love. They taught her how to hate. I also think about the fact that when they took the car from Miss Ruth, she was riding around in that car for two days, sleeping in the car, because she sure as hell didn't want to go home.
It wasn't because she was scared of the fact that she committed the crime. It was because she didn't want to go home. She didn't want to see that. She didn't want to be around that. And she was probably looking for any out she could get. Right, exactly. On July 15th, State Representative Earlene Rogers begins working on a bill to increase the death penalty age from 10 to 16. She can't save Paula, but she can save other juvies.
She says, Right. Right.
She wasn't the only one upset about this. Other countries were especially disturbed by this harsh punishment. A Dutch writer said, it almost seems like the motive is revenge. Our system is based more on helping people where it's not uncommon for murderers to receive a sentence of only four or five years here in the Netherlands. Often they're committed to psychiatric programs where they live in a clinic like setting. Of course, many people oppose this and think we should be more firm. Most of their outcries though, came from West Germany and Italy. And that,
let's back it up. This is what I'm talking about. I don't know about four to five years, you know, we're still very, um, the system is all about punishment. You did bad and I for an eye America. And it's like, what about helping? What about love of your fellow man? What about reaching out and pulling somebody out of a shitty situation, especially the youth, you know, not called a correctional facility. What are you correcting? Come on now. Come on somebody. So, um,
Yeah. Italy went up for this girl. They was like, how dare America? Right. They was like, you have got to commute this sentence. It's just not going to work. When Sisters Who Kill began, an online store was the furthest thing from our minds. I mean...
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rocketmoney.com slash sisters like the members of the radical party italy's radical party they were protesting outside of the u.s embassy like this shit gotta end right prosecutors said they don't understand the type of crime we have in this country and the amount of freedom we give our young people which okay with that that's exactly where i left it
I don't even want to finish this quote because it's such bullshit. Okay, y'all, I'm going to say it for y'all because it's very American. Very American. Prosecutors say they don't understand the type of crime we have in this country and the amount of freedom we give our young people. With that freedom comes equal responsibility, which is complete bullshit.
you're dealing with countries which for the most part don't experience as much crime as we do in lake county also you know crime and poverty they go hand in hand correlated so like when i'm thinking when
When I'm thinking, I just jumped to this because y'all, this is not part of my script. But when I'm thinking about it, like these countries that have like, you know, universal health care. They're taxing the rich to make sure that it makes no sense for people to be in billion dollar homes and there's somebody to be hungry on the street. And you wonder why that person is committing crime because they are fucking hungry. You're saying that she had everything that social service had to offer.
to offer but social service don't got a lot to offer but social service doesn't have a lot to offer because you'd rather put your tax dollars in to i don't know what you're putting it into because yeah you're putting it into the military i was about to say you're not putting it in
to infrastructure. You're not putting in a teacher's salary. You're not putting it into social services to help the youth. Yeah, you're putting it into prisons. So we have the largest military? Right. You're putting it in the military. So it's like the fact that America's like, I don't understand. We do everything for you. No, you don't. No, you don't. Especially for black folks. No, you don't. You give us the bare minimum and tell us to be happy.
They also said the religion played a big role in this case. We have in America a separation of church and state. And that's something that we strive to preserve, which is also bullshit, especially in 85. Because we were still saying the Pledge of Allegiance in 85.
girl i was saying the predilegence when i was in school my money still says in god we trust my money so there is definitely not a separation of church and state so we love the lies keep them coming white folks so 78 members of the parliament signed a letter asking for the death sentence to be dropped they felt like it was barbaric immoral and
ineffective and quite frankly i agree oh 100 so by march 1987 the italians are still going up now remember she got sentenced in 86 they're still going up like they've got citizens with petitions with 40 000 names on it a high school alone got 10 000 names on it and the lawyer decides to write a letter to the pope
And the Vatican responds, so he takes it as the Pope responding to him. But they throw him out for interviews and they're like, you know, tell her story, spread awareness, you know, what can we do to get her out of, to get her off of death row. Pope John Paul II got involved asking for gubernatorial clemency. Governor Robert Dior said that he would not intervene until she exhausted all legal appeals. On April 16th, an appeal was submitted stating that they have more evidence
and that she had inadequate counsel. She also said that her age and lack of criminal record wasn't considered. The clinical psych didn't mention her abusive home. There was failure to challenge adequately the circumstances to justify death, and failure to investigate present mitigating circumstances.
Now, you think that this is going to go back to Judge Kimbrough to kind of reevaluate, but Judge Kimbrough actually dies on April 30th due to a car accident. And the case is replaced by Judge Richard J. Conroy. Yeah, so as she's waiting for this, there's a couple of things going on in the background.
September 1st, 1987, Indiana finally raised its minimum age to 16. But the ruling was not retroactive, so it didn't necessarily help Paula, but it helped people who would have found themselves in Paula's situation. On June 20th, the friar came to visit her in the Indiana State Prison. He came with 800,000 letters begging for her clemency, basically,
So on July 23rd, 1987, Paula stands before Judge Conroy for the first time and she is pleading for fairness. So she is sobbing, she is crying, and all she is saying through like this muffled, just choked up cryingness that I'm sure she had, she says, I just want
want to ask you to please keep an open mind. I know you haven't had this case long, but you seem to be so fair and so far so good. If you could tell me you'll be fair, that's good enough. In which he responds simply, I'll be fair.
The idea of this system, we should not have to ask for that, right? But so many times we're seeing unfair cases to the point where you're like, please don't let me be the one you, you know, right. It's just, you shouldn't have to ask for fairness when we have the right to a fair trial, right? You're supposed to, if you're white.
yeah so finally in july 1989 the supreme court commuted her sentence and gave paula who is now 20 60 years they was like this doesn't really surprise us like she was set to go back in front of the judge but if he didn't do it it was gonna get done anyways because at this point the pope was like i'm about to take this shit to reagan
Like, I don't understand why she's still on death row. So they was like, if it didn't happen here, it was going to be a federal clemency. So fuck it. Then in 2003, she was transferred to Rockville Correctional Facility, which apparently has a really good reform program. And she seemed to be doing a lot better here.
Yeah. So, you know, when you plead guilty in cases, you don't get the chance to testify. Like, it's just like, OK, I did it. We don't really care your side of the story. Here's your sentencing. You know, thanks to an article in The Times in 2012, just a week and a year before her release date, that finally changed. I was 15 years old and I couldn't tell you what my mindset was at 15 as opposed to what my mindset is at 42. I really can't.
I mean, for maybe 10, 15 years into my sentence, I really didn't even understand what happened. Honestly, I mean, I sat and tried to figure it all out, and for years I couldn't figure it out. There was no one in there that was innocent. I mean, this is almost 30 years later, so...
I mean, I don't have to try to sugarcoat anything or try to make myself look good in any type of way. There was four of us in there and all four of us were guilty. She also expressed that she feels the girls conspired against her to get a more favorable sentence, causing her to take the biggest fall. She stated that the knife was in everybody's hand at one point or another during the time of the murder. But Paula had come a long way from who she was in the 80s, which she credits to God and the Rockville's programming.
She transformed from a troubled child to a leader amongst the inmates, many of whom she tutored in culinary arts. I take great pride in what I do because people have to trust you to eat your food.
That's the most personal thing that they can do is taking something out your hand and believing that you've done nothing to it. She felt like she had something to prove and was proud of the work that she was doing. Well, when I get out, I mean, I don't care if I have to sweep floors, wash dishes or flip hamburgers. I'm going to take whatever I can get, you know, just to get on my feet and show people that I deserve a chance. Throughout the years that she spent in prison, Paula actually accomplished quite a bit.
She got her GED, her bachelor's, and several certifications, and she completed an apprenticeship program in housekeeping. Yeah, so she was, you know, thriving, and it seemed like she was really going to be an asset to the community once she was released. Like she was really out here trying to make some of her life.
Right, she was actually putting her best foot forward. She continued to receive support from her mother and sister as well as Bill Pelt, who was grandson and he was like her biggest encouragement. He was only 15 at the time of the murder and was initially on board for Paula's death sentence.
He later realized in court that Miss Ruth, who was like, he called her Nana. He said that like he saw her in court and he just thought about his Nana and he was hearing her story and he just knew that his grandma was a woman of the cloth and she would want people to forgive this girl.
You know what he said to this point? He was like, at first, you know, like you said, he was against her. But he was like, I went through a divorce, bankruptcy and a real bad relationship. And I had to do a lot of soul searching. And it was at this time, you know, like his lowest point where he was like, OK, grandma. All right, Nana.
Right. And he also says we're supposed to hate the sin but love the sinner. People forget that part all the time. They forget that part all the time. He says that Paula has changed. That she's not the same person that committed that terrible crime in 1985. He says...
He wrote a book about his journey and worked closely with a nonprofit called Journey of Hope, From Violence to Healing, which helps families of victims. At 10 a.m. on June 17, 2013, Paula Cooper walked out of the Rockdale Correctional Facilities doors as a free woman. She was given the standard, $75, and a donated pair of shoes and was sent on her way. Pause. Uh...
$75 in 2013 is no money. Let me tell you something. Like, when is the last time that they updated what you get when you walk out of prison? Because $75, because I think it's also supposed to be $75 and a bus pass. But she was picked up. She need an Uber ticket now and they need an Uber voucher. Right. I feel like they could set that up. Bill was able to get her to an undisclosed location after her release because folks were ugly and sending her all types of death threats.
Which, mind your business. If Bill is okay with it, like, out here advocating for her, what the hell do you got to say about it? Right, they actually had to, like, sneak her out of the back of the prison because everybody knew her release day was coming that day. And the media was in front of the prison going crazy. So they had to sneak her out of the back. Because she was just talking, like...
I don't know if society's gonna give me a fair chance. So for that to be first day out, I know that's very emotional. Once she was out, media attention was kept at a minimum because adjusting to life is hard enough when no one knows your name. But walking around with the scarlet letter of your crime and no family to fall back on, the transition is crucial to your survival. The Intercept stated that the Archbishop helped Paula find a place to stay. Her main skill was culinary arts and she was able to land a job with Five Guys Burgers and Fries where she
quickly became the manager. She also landed a job working with her longtime appeals lawyer, Monica Foster, as a paralegal. I love this for her. She had a way of talking to the youth and had experience that they could relate to. She even found herself a man and was engaged to be married to LaShawn Davidson. Paula had a friend named Armisha that she met in prison when Armisha was there for a 30-year stay. On May 25th, 2015, which was like a Monday, so we're talking about
two-ish years after she's been out of prison. Paula hits up Armisha and was like, you know, I want to go to Run to Rainbow. I want to go get me an outfit, trying to look cute. But Armisha was like, girl, it's Memorial Day. So if you want to get an outfit, girl, we're going to Walmart. So they make plans on the phone to go to Walmart. When they make these plans, Armisha can tell that something's off with her friend. She's just like, you know, friend, come over here, hang out during my lunch break. And Paula's like, okay, cool. But Paula ends up getting lost. Now, remember,
Paula has spent her entire adult life in prison. So she's from there, but she does not know her way around the city. And she's super reliant on her GPS. And also, she don't know how to drive that well. Like, she is pretty much barely making it from place to place. So anyways, that evening comes and Misha is like, what's going on, girl? Is it you and your fiance? Like, if you need to, come over here and stay a couple of days, you know, just to clear your head. They go to Walmart.
mart paula and her they buy some clothes paula even gets some underwear and that evening at misha's paula asked if she had some like paper some envelopes and she was like yeah girl so they both sat on the porch they were smoking cigarettes writing and drinking wine a normal evening the next morning paula was gone
Ormisha did not know what was going on until her husband called her downstairs, handed her three envelopes with an additional letter addressed to her. When talking to the intercept, Ormisha stated that she, quote, wanted to go to where no eyes could see and hear the birds chirp for one last time and see the sun come up.
or misha then dropped everything and her and her husband ran out of the house because they were like we need to go find paula now they searched and searched until they finally came up empty so worried you know i'm gonna look for you before i call 12. so worried or misha finally was like all right i'm calling the police she calls the police only to find
that Paula Cooper's body had already been found underneath a tree. Her cause of death was a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head, and she was pronounced dead at the scene. In one of the letters that was addressed to her fiancé, she expressed just the difficulty of coping with life outside of the prison walls, and that she just was constantly reminded of her past. That's so sad, honestly, because she spent...
A good chunk of her life fighting for her life. You know what I'm saying? Even before jail, like dealing with her dad. Right. And then you think that you have it. Like, I mean, the interview, the clips that you guys heard earlier, she seems just like she's ready. She's positive. But it just goes to show that the prison system is not.
Yes, they may be reforming you, but are they preparing you to integrate into life? Because it's a whole different world. You know what I'm saying? Like, imagine if somebody picked you up and dropped you off in a different country with $75 and a donated pair of shoes. Like, where do you go?
Who do you lean on? As if that's not hard enough, she's hated by half the country. You know what I'm saying? Like, she's looked at as this murderer, which I don't think that's who she is. Honestly, after doing all this research on this case, I feel like she is one of those stories where you say everything happens for a reason. Because just the way everything played out, like...
Her life didn't go for nothing. Changes were made on her behalf. You know what I'm saying? Like, with the whole sex in the jail thing. It wasn't until after that incident that they made it illegal for the COs to have sex with the inmates. Because before, it was just frowned upon. Right. It wasn't until after she was sent to death that they changed the minimal age. Like, everything was happening after her. And...
And then it's like, does it have to be rude? And she had to work so hard. I think that even all the religion that circulates through this story is just like, it's so connected how her journey to Christianity or, you know, it seems like Christianity that she's going through, you know. She is worthy of forgiveness no matter how ugly people
are but at the end of the day she never forgave herself she was very hard on herself and I think just being out in the world and having to she thought that she was prepared for that struggle being out in the world and having to work from nothing but like it's hard it's
It's hard out here, you know? And she literally had nobody to fall back on. She was hitting up some of her homegirls from prison and they were helping out as much as they could. And I think that they really were, you know, putting Paula on their back and really trying to hold her down because she does not know what it's like to be an adult in the world, you know? And the fact,
Like, how... You went in when you was 15. She didn't even get... Y'all don't give driver's lessons in prison? No. Like, you're telling all these things that they're supposed to have to be reformed, but, like, you need to make sure that all the boxes are checked. Right. Because some cities, a bus pass might work, but some cities, it's not. Right.
It's just sad that she worked so hard just to be consumed by her past when she had such a bright future. And I think that future could have been given to her a lot sooner so that she just would have had a bit more of a chance. You know who really didn't sit well with me in this story? The prosecutor. Like, you have a 14-year-old, a 15-year-old, a 15-year-old, and a 16-year-old. And you're like, first of all, death to all of them.
And was like heavy on the death. When it was time to do the appeals. He was like so you're going to just encourage other children to commit these crimes. Like first of all. Do you think they're thinking about their punishment when they're thinking about these crimes? Do you think they're like mmm.
might not get death but I'll sure as hell get life so I'll take it like that's not what's going through their head at the moment that's not how they're making their decisions you think they're making an informed thought about murder at the age of 14 15 16 and planning that shit out I don't know how any prosecutor like really sleeps with themselves because I have not come across a case where a prosecutor and I get that it's your job but like you have to be heartless to be a prosecutor all right y'all it's time for well I'm not black
i ain't do it but if i did this is how i would have done it all right friend i'm gonna let you take this one first okay i ain't do it but if i did i would have turned around once i realized paula was home like going from the story that paula told in 2012 you know they didn't know she was home and then just kind of played it by ear from there they should have been like
oh that's okay like I don't know who the fuck picked up the vase and that's probably a person probably picked up the vase and panic like oh shit what do we do and then from there it was like we've got to hold her down we might as well go through with it now we started it you know you know when you feel like you can't turn back when you absolutely can turn back but you feel like you can't and then there's also you feel like you can't but you're right and then there's always that pack leader mentality you know what I'm saying you feel encouraged and emboldened around people and I'm sure like she just blacked out I'm sure like at some point that was her daddy or
everybody who told her she wasn't gonna be shit you know what I'm saying like once you got that first one in there it was probably like fuck like a release you know what I'm saying not necessarily the healthiest release but before she even got there she should have been like oh she's home try again later I ain't do it but if I did I would definitely it seems like they were very loud and chatty about their crime and
And that's going to get you messed up every time. But that also goes to show the immaturity of all of those girls. Because when you're having somebody in life, you know, or death, like you have to take into account their maturity levels at the time of them doing the crime. And it's clear that these girls are extreme, were and are.
well and it's clear that these girls were extremely immature yeah like they didn't know how to keep their mouth shut and they didn't know what business was for them and what wasn't all right friend so this is usually where we do parole or not parole and i just want to take the time since paula was was released from prison i just want to take the time to address the fact that the prison system is racist as hell sexist as fuck and you need to do better and treat
women, especially black women better on their way to reform. Like we said before, it is called a correctional facility. So let's correct the behavior. Let's not just have us out here looking crazy, like make it so that these women can be an active member of society. And that's not just teaching them skill. That's teaching them coping mechanisms. That's I don't I don't know, like, are they getting a chance to actually be in the real world?
you know supervised because at the time they're still convicted criminals but like so that they are able to really slowly integrate what if they're making sure that they are going to be successful prison like a campus like you know how college you're kind of like in your baby step to adulthood and like hey you got to do this like what if it was like a huge compound but it was enclosed and everything you needed was there they wouldn't have enough security for that maybe
maybe at like a super minimum facility. Who's, who's going to want to. Nobody, nobody's pockets. Nobody wants to invest their money in that because they wouldn't be able to see the profits come back to them. And that's all that, that is what these other countries are like criticizing America about then and still criticizing America about now. Like, why is it that you care so much about a dollar?
You value a dollar over a human. And I was listening to this interview, this old, because I was doing research for this thing. And I was listening to an old Tupac interview. And he was like, you got to...
For somebody to be on their way to independence, somebody had to help. You don't wake up. You're not birthed out of the womb independent. You know what I'm saying? Somebody had to give you a hand. And I feel like nobody is helping these women become truly independent. And I think Paula was also like, you could tell that she was trying. She wasn't out here relapsing or doing anything. She didn't have no business. She was really trying. But that shit got overwhelming. You know what somebody's going to have to do? Somebody's going to have to do extensive research.
and figure out how to make actual reform cost-effective. Not necessarily... Like, it probably wouldn't come out cost-effective in the present, but if they could argue, you know, these reformed citizens enter society and they do less crime. Less crime means, you know, crime is what makes things go up. If there's less crime, you don't have to put so much money in the police. You know, even with stores, they say, if you steal, you're just making your prices higher, which, bullshit. But...
You know, less crime means cheaper because you don't have to pay for all that other. We wouldn't need to keep funding this money into these whack ass police officers to pretend to protect us if we could cut down on that. And if a lot of our crime is repeat offenders, then that's showing that we're not reforming and we're not curving that behavior. So if we could cut down on that, maybe maybe we can make that argument.
Long-term goals. Well, y'all, it's another episode of Sisters Who Q. Thank y'all for coming back for another week.
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