Vanessa Cameron
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And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. You know, it's really crazy when murdering becomes a family affair. ♪

If you're listening to this, you probably already know what I'm about to say. That today is the day for you to start your podcast. You have everything that you need. Your computer, a little microphone, and Spotify for podcasters. It is the all-in-one platform where you can host, edit, and record your podcast and distribute it everywhere. Where you're listening right now, you can have your podcast there. I promise, for real. And it's free. And you can make some money off of your podcast for free.

Free money. Free money is out there. Just go get it by starting your podcast today. Our players this week are Samuel Sam Johnson Jr., our victim, Erica Hinton, his pregnant fiance, Bernard Brown, Vanessa's brother-in-law,

Lakeisha Brown, Bernard Brown Cousin, Susan Sutton, Vanessa's sister and Bernard's wife, Sylvia Cameron, Vanessa and Susan's mom, and Vanessa Cameron, Sam's ex-girlfriend, baby moms, and our murderess.

Now, Vanessa Cameron is the daughter of internal affair police sergeant Sylvia Cameron and a city councilman. Now, her dad, listen, must have been deep in the politics game because, boy, his name stayed under wrap when all this came out about his daughter.

But anyways, Vanessa lived what many of us would consider a very privileged life. In high school, she was known for being beautiful, smart, and popular. One personality trait that she seemed to be very well known for is her ability to always get what she wanted. She was a master manipulator. She knew what strings to pull. She knew which way to talk to you. She knew how to meet you where you are so that she could manipulate you to get what

what she ultimately desired. Despite all that, back then it was known as, you know, just mischievous little behavior. She was still seen as the golden child. She was like the favorite mom and dad loved her. And this was the exact opposite of her sister, Susan. Now her sister, Susan Marie Sutton, was kind of the black sheep of the family. Now she grew up with the same access, the same privilege, all of that. But I

I don't know. They said that everything that she was told to do as a child, she did the exact opposite. And when she was an adult, she was pretty much completely financially and emotionally dependent on her younger sister, Vanessa. So much to the point that from the car she drove to the food she ate to where she lay her head with her common law husband, his name is Bernard Brown, Vanessa provided for all

all of that she provided for everyone and the couple they didn't work Vanessa and Bernard they didn't work because they were never encouraged to work and they didn't feel the need to work now at the time that Susan and Bernard had moved in Vanessa and Samuel were also together and Samuel that's Vanessa's boo obviously so just to recount you've got Vanessa Samuel

Vanessa and Samuel, they have a son together. Susan and Bernard, all living in the same house. Four adults, one child. And y'all remember how we said that Vanessa liked to manipulate people? Well, that was totally fine because Susan and Bernard, they quickly became her favorite playthings. They pretty

pretty much did whatever she wanted because she was the one paying the bills. It was said by anybody that knew them that the couple was always doing Vanessa's biddings because she was quick to let her sister and that broke ass nigga know that you can do it or you can live on the streets. Which one do you want to do?

Samuel Johnson Jr. was one of three children from a loving marriage with two hardworking parents. He and his siblings had a typical middle-class upbringing, and they were all this one big happy family.

He was college educated. He worked two jobs, one as a middle school safety officer and the other as a local bus driver. And despite some of his questionable life and relationship choices, after college, he was overall happy with his life. Samuel and Vanessa first met in February of 2008, and they started dating a month later.

They went on for a while, and after a year, they had their son, Samuel Johnson III. After having a baby, Samuel was determined to work, work, work, and provide for his family, and Vanessa lived the life of a stay-at-home mom. But the bills were coming in faster than his checks were, so it was— Especially when you got the bills of four adults. Right. Because at this same time, Vanessa is still allowing her sister and her sister's nigga—

To live with them while her man try and keep everybody afloat. Now... Crazy. Right. Another year passes and...

Friends and family of both Vanessa and Samuel are saying that this relationship is going sour fast. And the couple was arguing all the time. And you want to know what they were arguing about? Money. She was saying Samuel was not working hard enough. He wasn't bringing in enough money. And he needed, you know, to step up his game and cover the bills. Now, eight more months go by and their financial troubles are at an all-time high. As if things couldn't get any worse,

Their loving home caught on fire and burned to the ground. They lost them, all their possessions, and all they had to get them through was a $300,000 house insurance check. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, their car is set on fire. Like, they can't escape the troubles. But at least she was insured because she got another check.

Now, this house fire was not something easy for them to try and get past, especially with all the strain that they had on a relationship. And it was around this time that they decided to call it quits with each other. This is when Sam begins to rekindle things with an old girl he used to know in college, Erica Hinton.

Erica says that these two were always inseparable, always in sync. None of those people, no matter how long it's been since you've seen them, you pick right back up where you left off and it's like no time has passed and all of that. She says that's her and Samuel. Your bestie bestie. Right. But with a little love in it. She was like the connection was strong.

Now, Vanessa is like, listen, Sam, I know we're not together or nothing no more, but we need to look at how our life has been going and evaluate the situation. And I think it's time that you put out a life insurance policy, you know, so that your son has something if something should happen. You know, Sam. It's time to man up. We're in our mid-20s. It's time to think about the future. 26 years old, right? Pick it the fuck up, right? So, I mean, like.

I don't know. I guess if you have children, that was her excuse. That was her excuse. You got to take care of your kid. And look at how this trauma keeps finding us. We don't know what's going to happen next, right? He's like, you know what? I do got to take care of my son, even in my absence. So, you know what, Vanessa, do what you got to do. Take out the life insurance policy. I'm with it. Vanessa takes out a whopping $750,000 policy on him.

Just in case. Now, Tazi was telling you all about those big girl insurance policy checks, right? One of which was worth nearly $300,000. Well, of course, Vanessa was working for all $300,000 of those U.S. American dollars. And she was taking advantage of it.

with her and her brother-in-law slash henchmen. She controlled every single move that was made with the money. Oh, y'all want some money? Well, make sure y'all watch my baby. Oh, y'all want some money? Well, go ahead and clean my house. Oh, y'all want some money? Go and do so-and-so. The list goes on and on. And of course,

Susan and Bernard, they ain't got no money. They addicted to whatever the fuck. They broke. They don't feel like getting no job. They don't have many options. So Miss Vanessa gets to sit on her throne of glory and she gets exactly what she wants when she wants no questions asked. Now, also, Susan had just been diagnosed with some mental health issues that she

when I undiagnosed as a kid. So she had to start taking some medicine and Vanessa, she would keep that money overhead. Don't you need to pay for your medicine? Don't you need to make sure that your mental in order, you need to make sure you do so-and-so because if you're going to pay for that medicine girl, guess where the money's coming from right here. I am your ATM. So now in the middle of all this and a little after Vanessa got that good old policy, um,

Her mother, who remember her mother works as a sergeant in the internal affairs office. She overhears or talks to her daughters, overhears them talking about wanting to kill Sam. And they're saying that they want to kill Sam for this insurance money. Now, of course, she's at a crossroads, right? It's her daughters versus her career. What does she do?

We'll put a pin in that for later. But let's move on to Sam. Sam is kind of doing his thing. His old slash new boo thing, Erica. Their relationship is moving forward at the speed of light. They're enjoying each other's company. They're

very deep in the cupcake stage y'all know what I'm saying and he is going around telling everybody that will listen like all his friends all his family he's just like uh my relationship with Vanessa was horrible besides her having my son besides her having my namesake like I don't want nothing to do with her I do not like her I don't love her I did you know it was a crazy ass relationship he told everybody he was like Erica this woman right here she's a woman for me

And she about to have my baby. And once he found out that he was having a baby, unlike Vanessa, he put a ring on Erica and they got engaged. So Sylvia, they mama, the cop, she hears all of these things and she goes to her friend who's an ex undercover cop. And it's like my friend, my daughters were talking about wanting to kill somebody for insurance money. How does that process work?

the friend was like kind of like huh what she's like never mind never mind i'm just playing i'm just playing and she ain't saying nothing about it and you know some cops they be like you know something's didn't sit right with me so a little while later cop friend goes back to sylvia's like remember when you told me about your your daughter wanted to murder somebody you remember that and she's like they decided to abandon the plan you know how girls are and the ex undercover cop was like

Oh, okay. And she was like, you know, it's just fine. Just let it go. Don't worry about it. We're good. Which, okay. Streaming October 6th on Paramount+. First place I learned about death was the Pet Sematary. Dead things buried in that land would come back. There's something else. Something's wrong with Timmy. He needs time to adjust. That's not Timmy. Something's talking through him.

Sometimes, dead is better. Pet Cemetery. Bloodlines. Rated R. Streaming only on Paramount+. How you gonna tell somebody about a murder one day and then a couple days later be like, or any amount of time later be like, you know what, never mind, just let it go. The man's still alive, ain't he? We moved on. We moved on. We're good. Let it go. No? No.

Because I heard you talking about murder, murdering this person. So time goes on. Nothing really happens. And on January 11, 2010, Vanessa decides that she is going to go down to Mississippi and see her bestie of 20 plus years, Adrian. She's super excited. They're a little fuzzy. Like they've got it like between two to three days of when Sam died. Right. Right.

But they do know for a fact that the last day that his friends, family or fiance say they saw him alive was Wednesday, January 13th, 2010. Samuel leaves the apartment that he shared with his fiance, Erica, on the 13th.

saying you know I gotta go over to Vanessa Oakrib because she got 340 dollars for me now he needs this 340 dollars because he's trying to put down money on a new apartment you know got a new family to take care of and Vanessa's finally getting this check from eight months ago when her house burned down and remember they shared this house so he's entitled to some of the money you know she gives him a little bit but she's like the the money is with my sister Susan

Susan is living with Vanessa in Vanessa's new place still with her boyfriend Sam goes over to Vanessa's house where Susan's at and Susan's like come in and come get this money now Sam barely gets in through the door when all of a sudden he is struck in the back of the head with a two by four by Lakeisha Brown now Lakeisha is Bernard's cousin Bernard is Susan's girl Susan's Vanessa's wife keep up

So immediately Sam falls to the ground and he's being kicked and beaten by Bernard and Lakeisha. He immediately falls to the ground. Susan goes upstairs. She says she don't want no part of this. And Lakeisha hits him at least once with the board. And Bernard is just going to town on his ass, beating him. So Bernard beats Sam until he goes unconscious.

And Lakeisha and Bernard then stuff Sam into a trunk of his car and they drive him across town to East San Antonio. Over here, there's this abandoned field in Saquon, Texas, and they take him out of the trunk.

And by this time, Sam's regained consciousness. Who knows what's racing through his mind in that trunk or whatever. But when they get him out that trunk, he's like, please, please, please. I got to live. I got a son. I got another kid on the way. Please, like, whatever you want, I'll give it to you. What the hell's going on? Please, you got to let me live. You got to let me live. Bernard and I have any. Sam is still tied up and he's on the ground on his knees pleading for his life.

Bernard goes behind him, shoots him six times. After killing Samuel, the cousins, Lakeisha and Bernard, put him back in the trunk of the car, Sam's car, and they drive it to, like, a local gas station and park it. Now, on the third day of Vanessa's trip, this is, like, Thursday the 14th, Vanessa leaves the room and she takes a call, and the call's coming in from Texas, and...

After the call, she's like coming out of the room all distraught. Adrienne's like, what's going on, girl? You know, what happened on the phone call? And she was just like, they hurt Sam. She was like, I mean, they were supposed to hurt him, but he died. And like he fell and hit his head and he died. And it's some type of accident that happened. But it went too far. And now Sam is dead. Right. And Adrienne is like, girl, what?

And she kind of doesn't believe it because Vanessa is a little too calm for her baby daddy to have just died. Right. So, you know, they continue on with their trip. Adrian kind of brushes it off. And the next day, Friday, the 15th, 2010, they go shopping. They get back to the house and Vanessa is like holding up her new outfits and stuff. And she's like, Adrian, what do you think about this dress? And Adrian's like, oh, girl, it's cute. Where are you going? She said to Sam's funeral. And Adrian's like, girl, what?

And she was like, yeah. And Adrian was like, this shit is not making any sense to me. And then on the 17th, that's when Sam's parents filed a missing persons report for their son. Because remember, Sam had not been found yet. When the missing persons report was filed, Sergeant Lisa Miller of the San Antonio Police Department said,

was kicking it at the station. She was getting ready to clock out for the day. It was coming right on up to that 5 p.m. mark. Then she got a call from a patrol officer saying that there was a man who had been walking in the cemetery on his vacation in town and discovered a body laying in the cemetery. No, the body was not underground. The body was just there. At first, they thought that maybe somebody had gotten drunk and fucked.

fell and just fallen asleep in the cemetery. But when the police came, they were like, oh no, there's a bullet wound. This is a homicide. It was there kind of propped up against a tree.

So it was propped up like drunk and were asleep. They found the body. Of course, they found the clear gunshot wound. They could see that it was a slim male with no identification. But what was really interesting was that around him, there was not a lot of blood. There wasn't a shell casing. And there hadn't been any reports of gunshots in the area. So detectives are like, OK, clearly this was a dumping ground. Like he's propped up.

It doesn't seem like there was a tussle here. We don't see any huge drag marks. He was not just dumped here, but placed here.

And that was really weird for the investigators. And so they take the body to the medical examiner and the medical examiner finds a total of six gunshot wounds on the body and a weird like contraption attached to his hip. The gunshot wound that really stood out was was the wound to the chin and how it lined up with the gunshot wound to his chest.

So basically they could tell from the angle and the trajectory of which the bullet would have come that he had to have been on his knees and the person that shot him was standing above him while he was on bended knee. Meaning this was like not just a killing. It was very much an execution and there was intention behind this homicide.

Sam hadn't been seen in over a week. His vehicle is missing. Now they have this body and they're really trying to piece things together. Back in Mississippi, Adrian's trip with Vanessa has come to an end and she starts to tell her mom about

about the phone call and the weirdness with Vanessa. Her mama says, that don't sound right. You need to call the cops. So AJ and her mama hop on a three-way call and they call the police and they tell the police, okay, my friend came to visit me. She said this weird story about her baby daddy being hurt. And then the next thing I know, she's buying a dress for his funeral. It's just not feeling right. My mama told me to tell you, so I'm telling you.

I don't know. At this point, the detectives don't know whose body this is. So them saying that this girl, Vanessa, came and her baby daddy is missing or is dead or whatever, it didn't necessarily connect any dots. Later, through the fingerprint detection system, they find out that this man is Samuel Johnson Jr. This is because...

In Georgia, California, Colorado, and Texas, you have to get a fingerprint to get a license. And the man was obviously licensed because he drove trucks. I mean, because he drove buses. And they were like, OK, now we know who this man is. It was further confirmed because that piece of equipment that they found or contraption that they found on his hip was just equipment that bus drivers use. And so they were like, checks out because Sam was a bus driver. That's him.

Now the detectives, they're like, okay, let's get into digging into Sam, right? So first they call his fiance, Erica. Now, Erica is like, listen, I told y'all the last time I saw Sam was on the 13th. He was on the way to Vanessa's house to pick up the money before going to work. I love Sam. Me and Sam are expecting a child. Me and Sam are happy. I don't want anything to happen to Sam, right?

She's pregnant with his second child. Like, they were so ready to start this new life. He was getting a deposit on their apartment. Like, you know, it wasn't making sense to her. Now, everybody from Sam's side of the family, their story checks out.

Their story is lining up that the last time they saw him alive, he was getting into his car. And on top of that, Erica has an alibi because she was singing in the choir at the church. Now, days later, the detectives, they catch a break and they find Sam's vehicle abandoned on a street miles away from where the body was found at the cemetery. They get in here and there is blood everywhere.

on the wheels and they popped the trunk open and there is blood in the trunk but there is no sign of gun fragments no residue there's no other damage to the car so they're like okay well what we can confirm from this right here is that he was in the trunk of the car and by the time he was in the trunk of the car he had already been injured at least to the point of bleeding right don't know if he was dead but he was at least injured

Right. So then they're like, OK, was he shot in the trunk? No, because there's no gunshot residue. So that means he was shot and then transported to the cemetery. And then did he die on the way to the cemetery?

Did he just bleed out like they have they have a little piece, but it's still not opening this case like they want it to be. Right. If this person drove this car here and it's now abandoned, who picked this person up from this said abandoned car? You know, it wasn't long before the detectives realized that Samuel is the baby daddy of Vanessa and Vanessa is the daughter of internal affairs sergeant.

Sylvia. And they're like, okay, she's an internal affairs agent. Okay. So she's obviously going to have these things in a row. You know, we definitely need to talk to her and see if she knows anything. Now, remember, Sylvia had already talked to this undercover detective and let him know that her daughters was whispering up a little secret.

At this point, the information's out there, right? And if it's tied to the case, another cop is going to give the tip. So they're like, let's look into it. So they call up Miss Sylvia and they're like, hey, how's it going? She's like, I'm good. What you need? And she was like, I was just following up. I heard that you told such and such that your daughters were planning a murder last year. And Sylvia hangs up the phone.

Detective says all she hears is a dial tone at this point. As soon as the detectives have all the information they need by way of physical evidence and following up with the insurance money, they bring Miss Vanessa in for questioning her and her sister. Now, Vanessa, she shows up to this interview like she is showing up for court, if you will. She is ready. During the interview, the detective said...

That she barely shed a tear and her alibi was just really airtight and almost so airtight that it was suspicious. Now, of course, as we know, she was out of town. She was in Mississippi with her friend, but she was like, oh, yes, I was in Mississippi. Would you like the confirmation number for my plane ticket? Would you like to see pictures of me while I was there?

Would you like to see the selfie that I took while I was away in Texas? This is a Texas landmark. I was there on that day. As a matter of fact, Sam dropped me off at the airport. I took a selfie with him. Would you like to see that as well? And it was so suspicious because like, you know, now you're giving me information that I even asked for yet. And then she continued to spill the beans. And she was like, well, you know,

Sam and I were planning on getting back together anyways. Yes, this Erica girl is in the picture. Y'all really need to look into Erica because she's obsessed with him and he's obsessed with me. Okay? If you know what I'm saying. And she was really trying to twist everything to be on Erica. Now, remember, Susan is being interviewed at the same time in another room. And in Susan's room, she gets a little comfortable, you know,

She's talking to herself, the detectives, they're very skilled or whatever. And she says that her relationship with her sister is very beautiful, very close, that they're a big, happy family. And then the detective says, because you know detectives are allowed to lie. Detectives say, girl, you know what I heard? I heard is that your sister is over in the other room telling my partner that you and your man are

are solely to blame if Samuel went missing and ended up dead because she was gone with her good friend in Mississippi and she said that you and your nigga accidentally killed Samuel. And of course, this is a tactic that the detective is using, thinking that she's going to see her crumble, but she's going to hold her head up high because she will survive. I will survive. She was like, no, no, no.

That's not what happened. She started pointing for the door. She said, I'm ready to go because you won't catch me. She grabbed her purse. She got up and she said, she said, no. She said, y'all lying to me. And on that note, I'm out of here. Right. She really did. She was like, no, because that's the thing that people don't remember is that you can leave during your interview. And as the door is locked, she said she wasn't under arrest. I couldn't keep her.

If that door is, that door has to be unlocked. And if it is locked, oh baby, you about to get paid. But that door has to be unlocked. Now back to Vanessa. They decide to use the same tactic. Oh, well, you know what Susan told us. And so Vanessa got a little nervous and she started trying to warp this entire story together. So she's like, okay, this is what happened. As far as I know, Susan lured Sam into her house,

And their whole intention was that they were going to teach him a lesson because he was beating on me. He was doing me wrong. And all I know is that Sam fell. Susan told me that he fell. I asked her for more details. And all she said was that he was hit by a two by four and they just fell. And I'm just I just I'm just so distraught that this could even happen. Like and apparently some girl I don't even know her. LaKeisha LaKeisha LaKeisha.

that's who hit him with a two by four for him to fall now Vanessa she was in there spilling all the beans she was like I told them that Sam was really messing with me like my heart was really on the line with Sam and he wasn't taking me seriously and they really felt that for me so being how they are they decided that they were going to rough him up you know

make sure that his head and his heart was in the right place. Just scare him a little bit. And next thing you know, I hear that he fell. And they're like, what do you mean he fell? And she's like, that's all I got. Like, I'm away on vacation. I get a phone call saying that he fell and that he got hit by a two by four. And they're like, well, who hit him by a two by four? And she's like, well, I don't even know. Like, what's her name? Lakeisha? Yeah.

Like, Lakeisha? I don't even know her last name. I don't know her. But whoever Lakeisha is, Lakeisha hit him upside the head. Apparently he failed. Now he dead. That's all I know. She was like, it's crazy because, like, my sister just kept trying to call me and kept trying to call me and kept trying to tell me what was going on. And I kept ignoring her call. And, well, they were like, well, when did your sister tell you about this? She was like, I mean, that day. But, like, I had, like, crazy missed calls from her. And then the detectives were like, okay, listen, we have two questions for you. Did you kill...

Sam, she says no. They say, okay, do you know Sam?

Susan's in the lobby waiting with her mother, and she's... You can just imagine what's going through her head. Is she thinking, no, not today, they won't get me? Or is she thinking, is my sister really in there turning on me? And, you know, she's got her mom out here with her. Like, her mom does this, right? So her mom's probably, like, telling her what's probably going on in the interrogation room. You don't know how much information she really got on you. She could be lying. She could be telling the truth. You never really know, right? So...

The detective who was interviewing Susan walks over to check on, see how the interview is going with Vanessa. And she catches Vanessa telling everything. So she walks back over and she says, Hey, Suze, just want you to know your sister is in there telling it all girl and keeps it moving. And Vanessa, I mean, and then Susan sits and she's like,

Excuse me. She goes to the front desk. She's like, can you get that other officer back? They call Detective Miller. It was like this lady want to talk to you. Detective Miller comes back out. And what do you know? It's Susan ready to tell a tale. So once she gets back in this interrogation room, Susan is singing a whole different tune.

My sister is a liar. She's a manipulator. She's always been this way. You can't really trust her. You know what I'm saying? It was either we help her or we live on the street. And I couldn't have that. And it is just like, I thought y'all was a loving, tight-knit family. Hold on, wait a minute. So she's like, no, my sister did this.

My sister took me off my medicine and said that I should do it because I get a lesser time. And all of this stuff, she's telling everything, right? So then a few hours passed, and the detectives— Okay, now here's another thing. I heard that Bernard was not there. I see interrogation videos. I heard that Bernard took apart the gun. Huh? But I also know Bernard got off in court.

Right. So what I heard was so in this video, there is no image video, nothing of Bernard. I have Susan's testimony. I mean, I have Susan's interview. I have Vanessa's interview. I have a Lakeisha's interview. There is no recorded interview of Bernard. And I heard Bernard sat there and did not say a word.

as to not incriminate himself. I don't know where these tears came from. Haven't heard that someplace else. But the man did not say a thing. Okay. So a few hours later, the detectives locate Lakeisha and Bernard. Now, they try and talk to Bernard, and Bernard ain't giving up shit. His name Bennett, he ain't in it. Don't ask me nothing. I ain't saying nothing. I evoke my right to a fifth amendment, if that's what I so need, but I ain't saying shit.

They get Lakeisha in there and they're like, Lakeisha, tell us what happened. And she was like, well, you know, she has said that she was like, somebody told me that we was going over there to teach this man a lesson or whatever, because, you know, he was beating on her or something like it. She she it really sound like she dead ass don't know Vanessa. And like somebody told her that this was the mission. And she said, all right, I'm in.

And she's like, yeah, something about like we was going to teach him a lesson because he was beating on her or something like that. And the lady was like, do you know that this was really a plot to get his life insurance money? She said, are you kidding me? She said, yeah. She said, so that's where all that money came from? She said, yeah. She said, I can't believe this shit. She said, because that's not what I was told.

And she proceeds to tell what happened. She's like, you know, we went in there. I hit him aside the head with a board. And the detective's like, so you hit him with a two-by-four? And she was like, no, I didn't. Wait a minute. What's a two-by-four? She was like, like a... Girl, you know what a two-by-four is. She said, like a piece of wood. She's like, then yes, I did hit him with a two-by-four. But only once. And he's like...

Uh, after that, you know, Bernard did the rest of it. And I was like, okay, well tell us more after you knocked him out. What'd you do? She was like, we took him over to this field. Bernard shot him. We put him in a trunk of the car.

And they was like, what field? She was like, I can take you to it. And you're going to see as soon as you get there that that's where it happened at. You're going to believe me as soon as we get there. It was like, whatever that means. And it was like, so then when did you take the car to the cemetery? She's like, cemetery? We didn't take no car to the cemetery. We left the car at this gas station. And she's like, so how did the body get to the cemetery? We left the car and the body at the gas station. I don't know what happened after that. So the detectives,

get lakisha and it was like take us to this so-called crime scene and then you know lakisha also tells about these coded text messages she's telling she's like listen i can prove everything you'll see from the crime scene matter of fact you'll even look at our text messages we sent the code to vanessa let her know that the deed was done you know because we finished the job or whatever

So the detectives are like, OK, Lakeisha, you're going to take us to this crime scene so we can see what we're supposed to see. And, you know, we're going to keep moving after that. So after after they finish interrogating all three of the girls, Vanessa leaves and goes to a hotel room and her mom sees her when she leaves. And I guess she talks to her when she arrives and she was like, baby, you don't sound too good.

And she calls Detective Miller. She's like, listen, I'm worried about my daughter. She sounds suicidal. I don't know what's going to happen. But she didn't go home. She went to a hotel.

So the detective was like, listen, I don't want her to end her life. I've seen it go like this. It's either suicide by cop or suicide on yourself because you either can't deal with the guilt or you're afraid to go to jail. And I'm just trying to stop her before she ends her life. Right. So she says she gets there and this is when she really gets a chance to talk to Vanessa. And what did they talk about? The good old Sam. And Vanessa is like, yo, Sam was a dog.

That nigga had all these women. He was dating women online. He had about two or three phones. This nigga would go to the bar and sit here and try and hit on this woman. And then he would be like rude and shit. And then would come back the next day, hit on the same woman. And when they be like, oh, you a rude ass nigga. He would be like, I'm so sorry, ma'am. You must have ran into my ignorant ass twin brother yesterday.

He don't understand how to treat a lady, but I promise you I do. And was, you know, putting it on him like that. I'm so sorry you met Mr. High. Right. So she was like, that's how he would pick up girls. She was just like, you know, even she was just like, you know, he was just no good. And that's what I mean. He was taking us all through the ringer. He was just, I don't think the detective found this too hard to believe because he

She hasn't. Not only did she interview his pregnant fiance, Erica, and Vanessa, who he supposedly was supposed to still be messing with, she said she interviewed a whole nother woman who said she had been dating that man damn near up to his death, but they cleared her early on. So...

Him messing around don't seem too far fetched. And this is while he's got his engaged pregnant fiance, you know? And she says... And he's swearing up and down is the one. Is the one. But the detective interview, this is word from the detective's mouth that she interviewed another woman who said that she had been messing with him up until...

He went missing. Now, shortly after this, everybody involved was arrested and charged with murder. That was Vanessa, that was Susan, that was Lakeisha, and Bernard. And everybody was tried separately. Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial. Now, Vanessa's trial took place two years later in 2012, 2017.

During Vanessa's trial, the jury heard testimony from both Susan and Lakeisha because they both agreed to testify in exchange for lighter sentences. Now, you know, they got charged. Susan got like 25 years. Lakeisha got 20 years. But they weren't playing around with their lives. So they decided that they were going to testify against Vanessa again.

They testified about what it was like living in a world that was controlled solely by Vanessa with her keen skill of manipulation, control, scam, and of course, murder. Now the jury wasted no time coming back and 100% saying that Vanessa was guilty of murder. I mean, clearly it was premeditated. Yeah, you may have been away, but clearly,

There was a lot of motive here, right? Now, during Vanessa's trial, she definitely did a great job of weaving a story that was a unique. She said that her and Samuel were very much in love, first of all, that they were in the process of putting down a deposit for a new apartment for them.

And that's why he came to her place to get that $340 from her sister. There was this big question of why does he need a life insurance policy? Why would you convince him to get a life insurance policy, especially after it seems that y'all have been scamming with the policies altogether? And she's like, listen, what y'all don't understand is that we lost our home.

in our vehicle in the matter of months. We were in a low place. We were in a very low, depressed place to the point where Samuel was talking about killing himself. He was talking about committing suicide. And I was like, well,

If that's something that you're going to do, then what you need to do is make sure that your son, that your third is well protected and that he's going to be taken care of. So if you're going to kill yourself, then you need to take out a life insurance policy. And if you take out a life insurance policy and you kill yourself, your child won't get that money. Right.

So if you really want to kill yourself, then we need to take out a life insurance policy and I will help you stage your murder. You can go on to glory. She was like, this is what Samuel wanted. Like he wanted his final gift was to protect his son. And she's sitting up there. She's snot nose crying, all of that shit. And the jury was like, yeah, okay, whatever. And on March 1st, 2012,

unanimously they found her guilty and sentenced her to 70 years in prison now remember Susan and Lakeisha they testified against Vanessa for a lighter sentence I mean 20 and 25 years is not really a light sentence but a lighter sentence now Bernard don't forget he went to trial Bernard was like listen

I'm going to take my chance and I'm going to go to trial because at the end of the day, that car was dusted for prints. They looked for evidence and there was no evidence.

connecting Bernard to that car. Of course, they could assume, and I think I was listening to a podcast where they were like, well, you know, if they had been planning this murder, then of course they would have thought about all the ways to make sure that their DNA was not on the crime scene. And that may have been so. Don't know. But Bernard went to trial, and due to them not having any physical evidence connecting him to the crime scene,

Bernard walked away scot-free. Now, Vanessa Cameron was not willing to give up and, of course, appealed the case. And in 2014, in the Court of Appeals, her lawyer, Jerry Goldstein, argued that his client's constitutional right to a public trial had been violated due to the fact that no one was allowed in the courtroom to witness the procedures during the ongoing trial. I have a right to a public trial. And they said, well, sir, you are correct.

So we are going to overturn her sentence and we are going to give you a new trial. She goes back to trial. And this time the jury found her guilty again. Maybe her sentencing could change. And it did.

This time, she got life in prison. Be careful what you ask for. Everybody wound up in jail, like we said, except for good old Bernard. Vanessa and Susan's mama was moved out of Eternal Affairs because how are you going to judge our internal team? And it don't even seem like you was acting right. So this ain't the department for you. And she gets switched to another department and...

She's later. There's a story like she used to be a proud mother and have this picture of her two beautiful daughters sitting on her desk. And she's like, now I can't keep a picture of my daughters on my desk. Like I'm at the police station. How am I have a picture of two murderers sitting on my desk? Had I looked not be proud of him. You ate it. You ate it. Them. You should have been charged the fuck you felt. You should have been charged for that.

I mean, you didn't aid them, but you tried to protect them. And you have a duty to uphold the law. So then that's your question. Which duty is stronger, the duty of a mother or the duty of an officer? Girl, you should have been prepared for somebody to call you. What does that mean, prepared? She knew about this murder. She knew about the potential of the murder. She didn't know about the new murder. And if somebody called her, girl, we ain't even got nothing to talk about.

Who told you that? Girl, my daughters ain't doing nothing. I was just talking shit one day with them. You know how that girl grow. I be trying to murder my husband all the time. Hi. Yeah, but... No, not mine. But still, isn't that still choosing her daughters over the law? At least you need to be better at it. But I feel like...

I just can't condone this just because they're black, because white people do this shit all the time and be pissing me off. And I just feel like nepotism in the police force is going to keep us in a very dangerous world. So if your son kill me, I'm good. Just like that little boy Kendrick Johnson, that whole conspiracy about the boy that put him there, his father is a part of the force.

So you're going to let somebody else kid die? And some people still love their murderous kids. Stand in your shit. You raised them. I think she still love them. She just, they probably ain't going to make no friends at the office if she's parading them around on her desk. She don't get to be that proud mama she once used to be.

And her daddy, the councilman, gets to hide from the spotlight. I tried to figure out which one it was. I did. He separated himself good, huh? Mm-hmm. All right, y'all. It's time for... Well, I'm not black. I'm OG. I ain't do it, but if I did, this is how I would have got away with it. I feel like we already started it, but... I ain't do it, but if I did... You need to tell your sister to get a job. I ain't do it, but if I did, you get a job. Yeah.

Telling that nigga he ain't bringing in money fast enough. If the money ain't coming in fast enough, it looks like you need to pick up the ball and help out. You know what I'm saying? Like, you putting all the pressure on Samuel to provide. I got the nerve to add a plus two. I ain't do it, but if I did, you found success with burning the home and burning the car. Makes me wonder why you didn't plan to burn the body. That never works out.

She must have knew it wasn't going to get hot enough. I ain't do it, but if I did, you got to play it a little more cool when you're trying to establish an alibi. And I know she tried to act like she was playing it cool. She was like, oh, I got a boarding pass, but I kept it. I kept it because it was my son's first flight, the boarding pass coming back. I have that. And I was like, okay, girl. Extra information much?

Yeah, she came a little too prepared. Like, and that's the fun thing about having receipts, like just in general, like you got receipts on a person, on your nigga, on your friend, on the caterer you ordered, like. But you gots to go dig for them receipts.

You have to... Or else you were prepared. When them bitches come to the reunion with their folders and their screenshots on their phone, they knew that these questions were going to get asked and the subject was going to be brought back up. Why are you so prepared if you ain't had nothing to do with it? I don't know about the reunion shows, but think about court. When you have a receipt, you use it when it's needed. You don't give any more than what the people ask for. You don't give any less. Can

Can you prove it? Yes. I have a boarding pass. Great. Can you provide it? Sure. It's at home. I'd love to get it for you. Do you know who did this crime? No. They're just asking yes or no questions. I ain't do it, but if I did, I would've took a note from Bernard and I would've shut the fuck up. If everybody would've shut the fuck up, they might be somewhere.

And Susan was doing so good at first. And that's the thing. They just slipped. They cracked. The sisters cracked. And also, I can do a bit of an idea. Girl, why are you telling your friend in Mississippi that you about to go to a funeral and that boy's body ain't even been found? Let it hit the news first, at least.

But you know why? Because she's not in the state and she don't know what the fuck going on. And she trying to keep the lines clear so it's not like she can say da-da-da-da. You know? You could have just bought a dress. Or she could have just not. She could have came back home and figured out what the fuck happened. Right, she could have just gone to regular shopping and bought a dress when she got back home. Right. They ain't even find a body first. Girl. Girl.

You don't even have confirmation that this man is dead. Because usually when people die, it's like, I can't believe it. And you need something to really bring it home, you know? Whether it's that funeral or whether it's seeing the body or whether somebody else is like, yeah, I know. You know what I mean? But, like, you don't really believe, especially when they're that close. I didn't even fucking believe Takeoff died, man. I was like, ain't no way. I'm going to just wake up and it's going to be fake news or some shit. Like, you don't believe this shit off rip, man.

And you are so confident that he's dead that you are out with your rest shopping. They don't even have a body, bitch. Parole or no parole. Is she even eligible? No, I don't think so. I'm hearing nothing except for he broke your heart and the insurance money has been working out for you thus far. And I guess you saw it as a win win situation. But like, yeah.

If y'all don't understand anything else, understand that people are allowed to leave you and people do not have to love you. Like these romantic relationships and it's, I can't believe he left me after all this time. It sucks and it hurts, but that is their decision. And trust me, you don't want nobody who don't want to be there no way. So that part, just let it go because you hold it on. It's not making them want you anymore.

They just playing you. And if you want to play the fool, that's fine. Ignore what everybody in the streets is saying. And you just come and have his meal ready. And as long as he don't bring nothing home, you good. That's y'all prerogative, y'all business. But getting butt hurt and fucking up your life, his life, and everybody around your life.

It's not worth it. Yeah, I'm going to hit you with a no parole as well. I feel like, Lakeisha, girl, you totaling yourself and you could have probably gotten less. Suze, Suze, Suze, Suze. My name is not Susan. So watch what you say. Don't want to hear about Susan. She's got nothing on me. Yeah, girl.

You got 25 years. That sounds reasonable. Although, according to her, all she did was go upstairs because she didn't want any parts of it. She just let him in and went upstairs. Who, Lakeisha? No, Susan. Oh, yeah, they did say that Susan went upstairs and was like, I can't. They were like, if you want to be a punk about it. And I think Susan ended up getting more than Lakeisha, who actually participated in it, right? Maybe it's the conspiracy. Yeah.

because of the hearing that the mom said they started talking about this a year ago. Mm-hmm. You know how upset I would be if you told me, testify against this nigga and I'll give you a deal, and you told her, testify against this nigga and I'll give you a deal, and us two who testified and admitted shit got more time than the nigga who got nothing, and he did the most shit, according to the story.

According to the story. How'd you get away with murder? Shut the fuck up. He didn't talk to nobody, man. He just shut up. He just shut up. He didn't leave any DNA behind. Keep it clean, keep it cute. Great. Let's read some reviews. All right. This one says, from the big smoke, which is London.

And then she tells me, and I'm not going to tell y'all because we might do it and y'all nosy. I'd be so mad at y'all. She'd be like, ugh.

I was going to do this person this week, but then somebody suggested it, and now they're going to think it's her idea. Now I've got to wait for all these to be said. And it's my idea. I remember, like...

There was something that had not been suggested in the discussion group at all. And then as soon as the script was written, somebody brought it up. And I was like, y'all niggas suck. Everybody's like, oh, my gosh. And they were researching the case. I said, I don't like y'all like that. Anyways, I'm not done. Oh, my bad. She said...

Keep up the great work and look forward to the next episode. Much love. Thank you from across the pond. Thank you, my dog. Okay, further international reviews. I would love more international cases. I guess I just don't feel like we have access to them. So if you want to send them our way, you can.

This one says, just some love all the way from Germany. Hey, Mirantes. I love your show. I listen to all the podcasts and I'm impatiently waiting for the next one to drop. I wanted to request a deep dive in a case of, I knew her very well and she was like a sister to me and a friend to my little sister. She told me that, my sister told me she emailed you about the case, so I thought I'd hit you back up.

Um, we went to the same high school and when I found out that she got convicted and charged with first degree murder of her stepdaughter, I was absolutely flabbergasted and disgusted. I never thought she was capable of something so heinous, even more so when I read information on the case. Now we all know...

Now, we all know not all the things on the Internet can be trusted, but I do believe y'all get all the facts and can explain more thoroughly and shed some light on the situation and what happened. I hope y'all consider doing this case. I love y'all. Keep doing what you're doing. I'll be praying for y'all. Respectfully. Respectfully, Kitaya. We will try to do all these cases, but we ain't doing more than one a week, so I don't know what to tell you.

All right, that's the end of the show. If you want to keep up with us, you can do it in any way possible. You can follow us on Instagram at Sissusukillpod. Follow us on TikTok, Sissusukillpodcast. On Twitter, Sissusukill. And join the discussion group, maybe. Anything else, friend? Maybe? Yeah, if you answer the questions and you talk like you got some sense in there so we don't get shut down. Do you have anything further?

Talk to us, we talk bit. Bye.