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cover of episode Supercommunicators | 3. How to Have the Hardest Conversations

Supercommunicators | 3. How to Have the Hardest Conversations

2025/3/12
logo of podcast Slow Burn

Slow Burn

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Charles Duhigg
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Jay Van Bavel
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Charles Duhigg: 我讲述了2018年Netflix发生的种族歧视事件,一名高管在会议上使用了具有冒犯性的种族歧视词语,导致公司内部爆发了激烈的冲突。这场冲突凸显了进行艰难对话的挑战,以及如何有效地处理这些对话以避免进一步的损害。 我采访了Vernā Myers和Jay Van Bavel,他们分享了关于如何进行艰难对话的宝贵经验和科学见解。 通过对Netflix事件的分析,我们可以学习到如何更好地进行艰难对话,从而促进理解、化解冲突,并建立更具包容性的环境。 Jay Van Bavel: 人们常常避免艰难的对话,因为他们担心这些对话会带来负面结果。然而,研究表明,实际情况往往比我们预期的要好。 为了使艰难的对话更有效,我们需要设定一些基本规则,并通过自身的言行来树立榜样。 此外,分享个人经历比单纯地争论事实更能激发对方的同理心,从而促进沟通和理解。 Vernā Myers: 在Netflix事件中,我亲身经历了公司内部因种族歧视言论而引发的冲突。 起初,我认为道歉就足够了,但后来我意识到,道歉不足以解决问题,因为许多员工对高管的行为感到愤怒和受伤。 为了解决这个问题,我组织了工作坊,引导员工分享自己的经历,并制定了一些规则,例如避免责备、羞辱和攻击,鼓励倾听和理解。 通过这些工作坊,Netflix的员工之间建立了更紧密的联系,公司文化也变得更加包容。 Jonathan Friedland: 我承认自己在会议上使用了不当的语言,对此我深感抱歉。 我理解公司解雇我的决定,并且不反对这个决定。 这次事件让我意识到自己对语言的敏感性不足,今后我会更加谨慎地选择言辞。

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The final installment of our series explores the conversations that most of us dread, like frank discussions of our differences or a negative performance review at work. We often anticipate that these chats will go badly—and end in hurt feelings or embarrassment—but there are proven ways to make them easier to navigate.

Host Charles Duhigg talks with psychologist Jay Van Bavel about strategies for having the hardest conversations. And: Vernā Myers, Netflix’s former vice president for inclusion strategy, tells the story of what happened inside the company after an executive was fired for using a racial slur. 

This Slate miniseries dives into the art and science of meaningful conversations, inspired by Duhigg’s bestselling book, Supercommunicators). The guides we mention in this episode can be found at charlesduhigg.com/tools/)

Supercommunicators was produced by Sophie Summergrad and Derek John, who also did the sound design. Our technical director is Merritt Jacob and our supervising producer is Joel Meyer.

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