"David Leitch"
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Thank you.

Scotty and I really want to go back to Germany. He lived there for quite a while when he was a kid. And I just thought it'd be perfect to get Rosetta Stone to just kind of learn the basics of German, right? I know a little bit, but Scotty knows a little more than I do, but it'd be great to just go there and just dive into a conversation with anybody you want. So I can't wait to use Rosetta Stone to get me there. SmartList listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettastone.com slash smartlist.com

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Do you guys eat standing up at all, like lunch or breakfast? When you don't sit at the table? What do you mean, like a horse sleeps? Yeah. Does a horse sleep standing up, or is that just a cow? That's a cow. That's a cow. No, I mean, they eat hay. What do you... Sean, you go. Sorry, because you had... It seems like you had a thought about... Are you doing a lot of standing counters? I do. What are you doing? I do. I eat standing up. Through open windows? What are you doing?

Anyway, talk about being open. I love being open with you guys. Welcome to Smart List. What just happened? What happened? Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart.

Willie, so wait. So when did you move into your new place? I moved in yesterday. Wow. Can you straighten out your fucking hat? You're not Justin Bieber. Hang on. First of all, I'm very young. I know. Okay. No. Well, you don't. Tell your face. Okay. Yeah.

Honestly, why is it cocked? I just did it like that for one second. There, thank you. It feels good to put it on the side like that. I do that too sometimes. Shut up, Sean. Wow, I think that's a record for a shut up, Sean.

Inside two minutes. Inside two minutes. We're already at Shut Up, Sean. You guys, I miss you. Can't you tell? I know. We're going to see each other tomorrow. Tomorrow. I'm going to get them all over you guys. Oh, it is on. It's gummy city for me. Oh, chew it up.

And suck it down. And then take a gummy? Yeah. Hey, so, Will, how's your new... First of all, congratulations, Will, on finishing an incredibly hard period of work. Thank you. Oh, great. Thank you.

What we have cooking in Hollywood's oven is undoubtedly a masterpiece. I'm going to call it right now. Yes. And I was there to witness the masterpiece. It was so good. There's a dash of Sean in it. Thank you, Sean. Which is more than enough. A sprinkle of Scotty. Sean and Scotty were so great. Can I just tell you, having them around...

It was so fun, and I've seen a bunch of stuff, and it's really, really good. This is a film, listener, that Will wrote and just finished acting in, directed by our friend Bradley Cooper, who's also in it. What a film, mate. What a guy. Well, what an eye. Yeah, exactly. He was so great. Yeah, he was great.

Yeah, it was super fun. And Jay, are you done with yours yet? No, I got another six weeks left. Oh, wow. That's not so bad. But that's also fun and going well. But you're having a good time and you're working your butt off too. I am. It's very, very hard. But don't try to deflect. You've just finished just like an incredibly large amount of work and it must feel nice to be done and you're back home in a new home. Yeah, yeah.

um your hat's kind of cocked and it's like it's all everything's yeah everything's happening well i'm wearing it high i'm thinking about i'm like van dutch adjacent right now with my hat situation because listener he's got long hair and it's all kind of kinked and looking super sexy going old school with my flaked hat you know what i mean you must just crush an ass out

Hey, man. Just walking around with that hairdo. Can't wait for that headline, you know what I mean? How about we're all in the same city, though, for once? I'm so excited to see you guys. I feel like we haven't recorded one of these in a few weeks, too. A few, many weeks, yeah. It's been a minute, and what do we got on the menu for tomorrow night? Has anybody made a request yet? For food? Yeah. Can I make two guesses? Yeah. Well, there are only two guesses.

By the way, they're great. They're great guests. They're great. They're always great. And if she's listening, listen. Those two meals are two of my favorite meals. No, they're the best. There's a reason they're on heavy rotation. Yeah. We always have an unbelievable time and a delicious meal, and we're very, very lucky and fortunate. And I haven't been able to be there for a long time. Willie, you haven't been there for... Months and months and months. Since January, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm very excited. It's going to be fun. On the way back, I flew back yesterday. From Chicago, right? Yeah, from Chicago. I stopped in and I saw a play at my old high school with some friends that I was in that play with. They did You Can't Take It With You, you know, that old play. And so all of a bunch of friends. What a show.

Turns out you can take it with you. But wait a second. You saw a show at your high school. You're still in contact with the folks that run your high school theater program? No, no. Friends. My friends that I was in theater with in high school. And my friend Amy and Rob and Shireen. Shireen I went to prom with. And she's like, so we're all like, let's go see the play that we were all a part of.

Was she a beard situation? A hundred percent. Yeah. Can I ask you this too? I actually thought that you were going to say, I was in Chicago and I stopped to check in with, I thought you were going to say a piece of chocolate cake. I stopped to check in with Portillo's. Yeah, Portillo's. That's the name of the place. By the way, I did. I'm always impressed. I don't know if that's the right word. With the amount of people you're still in contact with from-

It speaks to what a great, genuine person you are. It really does. It really does. Yeah, yeah. I envy that. Because on the surface, you seem like such a world-class a-hole. Thank you, Will. I was trying to figure out how to say it. Yeah. But then it turns out, no, you are such a caring and loving. Surprisingly nice. Lookit, that's her.

And that's my friend Rob, and that's me, Prom. Oh, my God. Anyway, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, blah. The show was good? The show was great. The kids were great. Did you have any notes for the person who played your part? I had one line, and it was, you're right, Chief, they have enough gunpowder down there to blow up the whole town. Wait, do you say that with anxiety? Yes. Have you just come back from a reconnaissance? Yeah, exactly. By the way, when I was in high school. Like, kind of out of breath. You were right, Chief. Totally, totally.

And when the guy came on, because we sat in the back. Do you remember the way you read it? Yeah, let me have it. I think I just did it. No, just do it. You were right, Chief. They have enough gunpowder down there to blow them up. I hope you weren't laughing like that.

This guy is not in the moment. But the guy that came out and said my line, I was like, whoo! They clapped really hard. Oh, my God. They were great. They're all great. Anyway. Well, listen, you could have used some direction, and maybe you could have used direction from our guest today. Oh, nice, Will. Yes, because... Segway alert. Segway alert, because this is the guy who's become one of our more accomplished directors that we have today. Oh, no way. Not only is he prolific...

But he is also a fantastic director. And what he does is, and he came at it. Listen, again, he's one of those guys, once you name some of his credits, you're going to go exactly who it is. And I know this guy, and I got to know him because he's worn a bunch of different hats in what we do. He, for many years, started as a stunt director.

David Leitch. Stunt guy, stunt person. David Leitch. And then he became a stunt coordinator, and then he became a director and a producer. And Jason, you already guessed it because he did Deadpool 2, Hobbs and Shaw, Bullet Train, Fall Guy. It's my friend David Leitch. Oh my God, David Leitch. No way. This guy knows what's going on. The second you say it, because he's such a legend. Yeah, yeah. Wow.

He's such a legend. Very good at what he does, everybody. He is very good. And one of the things, Dave, that I want to say, first of all, welcome to Smart List. Welcome. I'm excited, guys. Thanks for having us on. Yeah, I'm nervous. One of the things I love about you, David, is that I knew you back when you were still coordinating, when I first met you, and you were also second unit directing. Yeah. And you have not changed anything.

You've become like this huge director and you are still the same guy. You're still very hungry. You're still very normal. You're still very grounded. And so I really, it's a real testament. Before we get going, everybody needs to know what a great dude you are. I just want to say that off the bat. We had a great, thank you. Thank you. Well, you know.

We had a great time on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. We did. We did. We had a great time. David made me look really good because he shot all this stuff of this 18-wheeler driving down a mountain, right? And so he went and he shot all this stuff, this insane 18-wheeler thing. They shot it like two months before. And then like two months later, I got to just sit in the cab of a truck on a parking lot outside Standard Studios in Brooklyn and just...

hyperventilate and pretend I was doing that. But I want to say that was a great performance. Thank you. It was very brave. Very brave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very brave. I had to get out of my Escalade, then get into the front cab of the thing. Take off your warming coat. Take off what time is lunch.

But David, don't you think you have to be as prolific as you are and a bunch of directors that are as successful as you and Mr. Bateman here, don't you think you have to have that kind of personality that Will just described you are, which is a peacekeeper and like, you know, you can't get a hot head and everybody's, you know, keep everything in order because you can't have a temper, right?

Well, I mean, there are directors that have it that are prolific. There's plenty that have made it work. That I've worked with as a stuntman or a department head, you know. Look, I was really lucky. I got to mentor under a lot of great directors. You got to see what worked for you and...

And what doesn't work for you? And being an asshole really doesn't work for me. No, it doesn't work for me. You would not wear asshole well. It is interesting, isn't it? Like a lot of people don't realize that directors don't work with other directors. So they don't know whether what they're doing is good or bad or efficient or not. And so actors or cameramen or really anybody on the set

has the opportunity to sort of cherry pick from, you know, a bunch of directors that how to, how to do it if they get a chance to do it. And, and so David, you've, uh, you've, can you mention any that you've, that you've picked some, some great points from?

Yeah, I mean, I worked with the Wachowskis for a long time. Oh, yeah. And they, you know... On the Matrix movies. On the Matrix movies. And then after that, we did V for Vendetta. We did Ninja Assassin, the classic Ninja Assassin. But we did a lot of films and...

You know, there's a precision to what they do. There's the homework that they do to be prepared, like all of that stuff. And they really build a family with their department heads. And they, you know, they're really close. And they allow their department heads to be creative and bring them ideas. And like, and that's where I really enjoy it. You know, I think there's other directors that are like... The collaborative. Yeah, the collaborative spirit of a director. Whereas, especially coming from production,

you want your ideas to be heard. You know, you design a sequence as a stunt coordinator. You want to be heard. That kind of goes to Jason. Jason, kind of, you know, it's interesting the point you make. Both of you guys became directors, but you came from, Jason, you were an actor for many years since you were a kid, and then you came to, so you got to witness and cherry pick pieces as you went and bring it into. And David, you started as a stunt performer

performer and then coordinator. So you also got to work under, whereas, you know, Jason, as you were mentioning, a lot of directors who start as directors don't have that breadth of experience working with directors. You guys did. To know how to manage personalities. To know how to behave and to know how to collaborate, right? Do you think there's something to that?

Yeah, I do, David. And you were kind of touching on it that you get exposed to a few work environments, sets that have that collaborative spirit or that were just basically like to minimize it. It's sort of a good vibe. And what that yields is just a better product. And it's applicable to any industry where –

And I've said this before, I apologize to anyone who's heard this, but you know, no one gets fired for doing 75%. Like you can hold your job for 40 years if you, if you deliver 75%, that's what kind of people expect. But if you want that extra 25% from people, it's, they've got to feel a little bit of ownership, a little bit of buy-in, a little bit of, um,

you know, equity in the process. And that comes from people feeling like they kind of, it's partly theirs. It's like, if it's your house, you put a coaster underneath your drink without even being asked to. But if it's not your house, you might put your drink on the wood table and leave a ring as you don't really give a fuck. You're going to drive home. So if you let people feel like they're a part of the process, you get that extra bit and then the product really soars, especially in what we do.

That's really, really long said. That's really long said. And I think it applies to many jobs, Jason. I think it's true, though. So thank you. David, thoughts on that? No, I mean, it's 100% true. I mean, again, like having been on set, you know, my entire adult life as a performer or a department head,

It's just you want to be included. And then, you know, being in the director chair and knowing all those people are there to make you look good, you take the good ideas and then you steal all the credit. But David, so I mean, you know, when you look at your –

First of all, your resume as a director is impressive enough considering the films that you've made so far as a director. But the films that you performed in, Fight Club, I mean, this is one of the great, that's a classic. People often reference it, especially Dudes, as their favorite film of all time. You were Brad's stunt double in Fight Club. Is that true? I was, but it was kind of like one of those movies where you're not doing a lot. Yeah.

You know, when you think about it, it's funny. It's like the name is Fight Club, and then you go back and watch the film. I actually watched it a couple months ago. There's only like three fight sequences in it. Right. But what we were doing, and you often do as a stunt performer, is train the actors. So we were training the actors for a long time, sort of in this messy style of fighting. And then I might have doubled Brad on two or three little moments. Right. Because at that time, he was like...

Super fit dude. By the way, still super fit. Still super fit, yeah. The guy's ripped. I know, I know. Cool, you guys. By the way, Dave, these guys know nobody loves Brad more than me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody loves him. We all do. He's an awesome human being. Yeah, I love him. Yeah, so it really was like one of those movies where I was working a lot, but we weren't, you know, the stunts I had to do were like very, very...

Although I do remember one great, this goes back to Fincher being the sort of like a perfectionist that he is. I had to throw the Ed Norton stunt double down that set of stairs at the end of the movie. Sure. 12 times. No way. 12 times. No way. And I ran into David, you know, this was like a couple years ago and I ran into him and I asked him like, hey,

what take did you use? And he's like, oh yeah, take two. No way. Oh yeah, 100%. So while we're on, Stuntz. One of my favorite, favorite directors of all time, David Fincher, Stuntz,

His level of specificity and precision does require a lesser amount perhaps of kind of – not contribution but –

or even collaboration. I'm not sure what the right word would be, but he knows exactly what he wants. And so the sort of the arena for, hey, well, what do you guys think? You know, how should we do it? Like there's a great deal of planning and precision going into every shot that he's doing. And so how do you...

How do you recommend, even in other industries, room for other people to fit into that? Yeah, their own ideas. I mean, with David, I think you buy into the vision, right? And so I think, you know, part of like your...

the excitement with his crew is like, you know, the vision is so strong that you want to make sure you're providing the details for it. And so again, like if you're, if you're a professional and you love this business and you get to work with somebody who has a really strong vision, then you just, you know, you, you ratchet the gear and looking in that way and like, okay, how can I serve service this vision? I mean, you're doing a lot of that though, too. Like, you know, um,

bullet train is I got the title right or yeah I mean I there was so much incredible technical execution on that that like there's no room for fucking hey guys let's all kind of figure this out you know we'll just rehearse until lunch and then we'll just shoot after lunch let's just it's like no you coming in with a plan you know exactly what so well I would say this sorry to interrupt but I think that

that was a mixture of those two styles. I think, you know, I had shot listed that movie with Jonathan Sela and we were very, very precise, but we allowed for, like when you look at Aaron Taylor Johnson and Brian Tyree Henry, they're playing these Lemon and Tangerine. Yeah. When I was in my setups, I let them go. Like they were just brilliant. And I was just like rolling, like, you know, like, and just mining for gold. So,

The composition and the editorial style and all of the production design, that was really my department heads and we curated it and we had a plan going in. But

We let the actors riff a lot. Right, but once you get into the action sequences or stuff where the camera is being the performer, you've got to keep them somewhat reined in. They've got to toe the marks. They've got to make sure their look doesn't turn until the camera gets around. Like, they need to be good soldiers. And, Jay, as you probably know, and David, we've talked about it, you made that film under very tough circumstances before.

It was right during the pandemic and takes place in Japan and you guys shot it in Culver City primarily. Yeah, totally. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, we shot it. Yeah, it was like height of the pandemic, before the vaccine and we were greenlit and we were actually getting ready to like sort of prep it for Tokyo and we were going to go shoot it on location and then it's like...

They decided they want to do it, but they're going to do it. Can I do a version on stage? And so... Well, wait, you weren't... But you had to assume that a lot of that was going to be a build, right? Like you weren't going to shoot it on a practical train, all that stuff, were you? No, no, no. But I really wanted to go to Japan and like get some, you know, some real environments and like, you know, and real grit and texture. And even the tone of the movie is now completely different because I'm like, okay, we're going to shoot it on stage. What's the...

version of this film. And then I think we did a big pivot, you know, with the production design and the music and like the costumes. And I'm like, I'm going to make this sort of an anime graphic novel movie because we really have one big soundstage we can, you know, do it on. But you knew you were going to go with a splinter unit or a second unit or whatever and get all the exteriors and the establishing. Yes. And actually we did that crazy enough during the pandemic on WhatsApp. Yeah. Oh.

Oh, what do you mean? I had a cinematographer. I know. This is the greatest. I love this story. Cinematographer in Japan. Yeah. And a first AD in Japan. And we had, you know, had them for weeks scouting, sending location photos, sending video because no one was allowed in Japan. You couldn't travel there. It was like there was a lockdown. Oh, so you did it through. We did it. All the plate photography we did with a remote unit. Okay.

And I would get up at two in the morning and get on WhatsApp and watch on a camera. No way. That's crazy. So he's directing remotely from the stage through WhatsApp. And you're like, yeah, maybe frame it up a little bit. Yeah, that's crazy. You know what I mean? So your video tap was through WhatsApp as well? Or was there another piece of software? No, we had another piece of software to give us the video. And I can't remember what it was exactly. That's so insane. It was crazy. We'll be right back.

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I just watched Smokey and the Band. And I was like, that guy was a stunt guy. Hal Needham. What's that? Hal Needham. Legends. If anybody needs him, Hal does.

So, you know, so like what makes you want to do that? How does somebody wake up one day and go, hey, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to beat the shit out of myself. I hope somebody throws me down the stairs today. Yeah. And don't you just, aren't you constantly aching? Anyway, go ahead.

Well, I actually, I am a little achy. I'm not going to lie, but you know, I've been doing a lot. I do a lot of PT and I stayed, tried to stay healthy. And I did get out, you know, earlier than some of my friends who are still like calling me like, hey, I hear you got a movie going. And I'm like, got a couple of days for me on that show. And you're like, you know, you're 50, dude. You're not jumping out of the car. Yeah.

But like, were you constantly, were your parents constantly driving you to the emergency room when you were a little boy? Were you always jumping off shit and hurting yourself? I actually came into the stunt business right around the time everyone was like specializing. And so they were looking for like martial artists. And I competed in martial arts as a,

as a kid and like all through college. And I was getting really excited about using this knowledge in movies. Like, you know, cause you, you learn so much in martial arts. That's completely useless. Let's be honest. Like there's all these moves that don't work and you're like, why am I studying all of this stuff? And then you realize, oh, because I can make up a fight with it and it can be really cool and look cinematic. So there was a group of guys that I was competing with that were in LA and they were working on

you know, these bad blood sport movies and things like that. And I went and visited them in Mexico on the set of this movie called Perfect Target, starring Daniel Bernhardt. And I watched them.

put together fight scenes, jump off of stuff, and you fall into pads. And I'm like, I'm in. I just packed up my car and left. I was teaching second grade in Minneapolis. I had just graduated. No way. Wow. And you're like, instead of beating... They're like, where are you going? You're like, I'm going to be a stunt performer. Yeah, I'm like, moving to LA, I'm going to be a stuntman. And then, of course, nothing in this business is easy. And so I moved into a house in Redondo Beach. There were six of us.

that we're all trying to be stunt people. I mean, this is a show in its own right. We dug a trampoline in the backyard without telling our landlord. We bought our pads. We bought an airbag. We went out to the desert. We built high-fault towers. We were just going to train to be stunt people until somebody gave us a shot. No way. And those, are you still friends with that group of people? Yeah, by the way, they're all really successful people.

stunt coordinators, second unit directors. Wow. Chad Stahelski was the other guy. He directed John Wick with me. Yeah, you guys co-directed John Wick. Yeah, that's amazing. We have a mutual friend too, the great Wade Allen, who we both adore. Oh, yes, Wade. And he was around in the early years as well. Oh, just love me, Wade Allen.

Stupid question, but what's the biggest injury? Like, you're like, okay, I'm out. I can't do this. This is a great one. So I'm thinking like, you know, the training ground for stunt performers is the live show, right? And so I hadn't even done a movie yet or a TV show, but I was trying out for the Batman live show at Magic Mountain. I was, by the way, trying out. I wasn't even the guy. And, yeah.

To play Batman? To play Batman. Excellent. And I was showing off. I was like swinging from the car goes under this catwalk. I grabbed the bar and I'm supposed to do a back. Well, I'm not supposed to do a backflip, but I'm going to show everybody how I'm going to do a backflip. Oh, my God. Yeah. Famous last words. Hold my beer. Right. And then I was like, I completely under rotate it, put my wrist down and I shatter it in four places. Oh, my God. Wow. Wow. I'm like.

Surgery, you know, I have a big halo on my wrist and, you know, and it's super embarrassing because again, I'm not even a stuntman yet. I am just like the beginning of my career trying to break into this business. You just try to cover it up. And do you think like, oh shit, I'm not,

I don't have what it takes because I broke my wrist. Like, is there a part of you that were you discouraged? - I was embarrassed more than discouraged. I think, you know, there was a great group of guys that we were all like, we just really believed it. You know, we really believed that we could make it. And part of it was this conversation we overheard in a diner. We always tell each other this today. It was pretty funny. There was two women in a diner sitting behind us and they were like,

Preparation plus opportunity equals miracles, sister. Preparation plus opportunity. And so we would...

Jokingly, we'd always say that, but we really meant it. It's like, just get good. Just get good, and then someone will open the door, and then you're good. And you get to do stuff. And so we would just train. All we did was train. I mean, it's crazy. Like Tron, which I love. Tron, the Bourne movies. Bourne Ultimatum. I mean, that is... There are very few movies that I watch on repeat, and the Bourne movies are in there. There are like five...

Do you guys have like five movies that you will repeatedly watch? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have the Bourne movies, Ronin, Midnight Run. I mean,

And with Dale and I. That's it. That's it. Midnight Run. So good. David, what's sort of agreed upon as the, when you say that the stuntmen sometimes now specialize, what is sort of the agreed upon hardest thing that the high water for all stuntmen? Is it driving stuff? Is it firework? Is it fire?

Pre-falls? Is it? Yeah. Well, look, in the fall guy, we got to like, you know, sort of play homage to all the old school stunts, right? We did this like incredible car roll. Like Dahl Robinson? Yeah. And we did a high fall. And that was Bob Brown's kid who was a legendary high fall artist. Like that is really like...

The lost art, you know, the high fall. Down into like, down into an airbag. Into an airbag. You can't see those anymore, right? Yeah, you don't. It's all cable drops now, isn't it? Yeah, we use, you know, visual effects lets us erase the wires and we can use high speed winches or we can use descender rigs. And there's a lot of ways to do that, you know, in a safer manner. But like when we did it in the movie, we had Troy Brown come out who's, you know, Bob's kid. And he's one of the few people that can, that do it.

And like has trained that old school sort of stunt. But look, it's such a wide discipline of stuff. And that's why you have to be specialized because, you know, everything got more and more technical as we tried to make it safe. And so-

The drivers specialize in driving. But is there one stunt that exists in cinema, like in film, that is heralded as the stunt? Well, you know what you don't see anymore, and I wonder if this is the answer, is the fire gag. Like you never see somebody lit on fire anymore walking around like, oh my God, put me out, put me out. Yeah, because they're in like a Michelin Man suit. Yeah. Well, now there's like,

They've invented this great gel. Actually, there's a stunt performer. He's got a company called Action Factory and he just won or he was recognized by the Academy for a Technical Achievement Award for his gel, this stunt gel that allows you to

basically burn for a long period of time without the big suit and without the prosthetic mask. You just rub it on your body? Well, there's the gel underneath it, but it's really the fuel that burns cooler. It's a combination of the water gel, which is like an aloe-based gel, and then the fuel that burns cooler.

But look, it's all like the circus. Like there's all these sort of secrets. Jay, what's that story from you when you were 18 and you had to use a gel for burning? What was that whole thing? Hey, hey, hey.

But I guess what I'm asking is, is there one thing that everybody uses as, you know, Jason said, you know, like there's a particular style of stunt that's the high watermark, but is there one performance, stunt performance that everybody goes, that's the granddaddy of them all. Somebody who did like a jump or a thing or a fall. What about that jump in the one of the Bourne movies where the guy jumps from one building into another building through a side window? How do they do that? And camera follows him in? Yes. I think about that all the time. Yeah.

It was pretty amazing. It's really impressive. And Matt must have loved it. I mean, you know, sitting there with his Dunkin' Donuts coffee in his hand. Do it again. He was already on a... Yeah, you know what? That looks really fucking good from over here. Yeah, do it one more.

Is the one where we can see his face a little bit less? That'd be great, just so people believe it's me. Fucking, I don't want anybody taking my credit. Tell him to fix his hair. You know Matt. You know how Matt is. He probably was sitting on first unit. I mean, I don't know if we shot it on second unit. I can't really remember that, but yeah, it was a pretty amazing stunt. By the way, I drive Matt crazy with questions about the Bourne movies.

all the time. I make him insane. I ended up, Frank Marshall ended up giving me like a wrap gift, like from the first one with the briefcase and the jacket and stuff, 'cause I wouldn't stop bothering about it. How'd you guys do that? And then what did you do when you did that? Like, I'm so annoying. I love those movies so much. - David, how do you feel? Are you excited about this? You know, the Academy Awards are gonna-- - Well, this is what I was gonna bring up. Yes.

This is David's... David has been leading the charge on this, Jason. Do you know this? No, not at all. David sort of really grabbed the reins on... And David, I want you to say it in your words, but I want to tee you up. Tell Tracy what this is. Yeah, you have... It's a real breakthrough in entertainment and in our business. A new category in the Academy Awards. Yeah, yeah. Look, it's been a long journey, and...

Look, for 20 plus years inside the Academy, there's been a lot of stunt coordinators working on it. You know, Jack Gill, Greg Smirs, Melissa Stubbs. There's been a lot of people trying to move the needle. And after, you know, we basically, we made Fall Guy. We're coming back from making Fall Guy. We are all feeling really excited about this giant commercial we made for why there should be an Academy Award for stunts.

And I just went in with Kelly, my wife and producing partner. We went in and talked to the Academy of like, what's been the stumbling blocks? How do we get this done? You know, casting found a way to get this done. How can we find a way to get this done? And they really did. There was a tremendous amount of support inside the Academy. And they just said, look, we have a roadmap you follow. And it's just been...

some sort of lack of clarity. And so Kelly and I really went down the road of like trying to rebrand what we were asking for. And I think, you know, the Academy obviously has this legacy of honoring design, like production design, costume design. And I think when people think stunts, they're like, what are you going to give the stunt to the, you're going to give the award to the performer or are you going to give the award to the person that rigged the stunt? And it's like, no, we're going to give it to the stunt coordinator, the department head.

The tradition is you give it to the designer. Right. And so we rebranded our credit on the Fall Guy, and this was Kelly's idea, to a stunt designer. And Chris O'Hara, the stunt coordinator on that, Kelly went to the guilds. She got it approved by the WGA and the DGA. I'm sorry, the DGA and SAG. And it was like...

We got the credit stunt designer, and that was sort of the first... That's really cool. And so now this year, the next Oscars, stunts are going to be recognized. Or maybe not. Well, it's going to be two years. I think that's kind of like we have...

We have some internal things to do in terms of how it's going to be awarded. And they want to do it on the 100th anniversary. Do we know if that's going to be a part of the primetime awards or is that going to be the technical awards? I think it's all open for discussion and really wasn't what we voted on this time around. But it's exciting. Look, I think it's long overdue and I was happy to be...

instrumental inside the academy, like really getting on the Zooms with all the governors I could and like really canvassing it. And then, you know, for our final vote, I curated a video presentation with a lot of, um,

director friends, celebrity friends that were really advocates for it. Well, honestly, David, kudos to you for doing it. I think it's awesome. And I think it's awesome that the Academy recognized it too. So kudos for them for that. And as we all know, and Jason, I've heard you talk about it before and we all know here on this and people should know,

You know, everybody who's on set when you're there, everybody is a filmmaker at that point. Everybody is part of the filmmaking process. There's no one there that doesn't need to be there. Exactly. Especially when it comes to rigging up a stunt. It's such serious work. It's so much safety and rigging. And that recognition is long overdue to all the incredible stunt performers out there. So really, kudos to you. It's awesome. And...

Yeah, that's great. I have a question about like overall stunt work. Well, because from Will and Grace. There was some trad falls in Will and Grace. By the way, one of my entrances on the David Letterman. By the way, it says me. I don't do it. One of my entrances on David Letterman when he had his talk show, they let me jump off the balcony onto a. What? Yeah.

I jumped off the balcony onto, what is it called? Nice. Like a pad? Yeah. Like an air pad? Oh, like an airbag. Yeah, an airbag. I can't believe they let me do that. So, David, go ahead, Sean. No, I was just going to say, so is it, by the way, that's whatever that is. But is it true that... Oh, sorry. Sorry, hang on.

No, no, I just meant like, I can't believe somebody let me do that and I wasn't even... Best stunt performance in a talk show appearance. There was no stunt coordinator on set. There was none. Was there a bump? Did you just get the appearance fee or was there a stunt bump? Jason, you always did a bump before Letterman, didn't you? I always love a good bump on Letterman.

And not Letterman. But anyway, so, but is it true that you guys get, or the stunt people get paid every single take? Is that right? It's not like a regular acting fee or whatever. Is it true that that's how they get paid? I heard that once. Well, that's a great, that's a great, we can explain what bump means in the stunt world. Yeah. So every time, yeah.

Well, in the 80s, it meant two things, I'm sure. It probably meant one, like, how am I going to get ready? And two, how am I going to get paid? But it's really, it's called the stunt adjustment and you get money for each time you do something that's dangerous. And that's sort of, it's decided by the stunt coordinator and production and like sort of agreed upon. Yeah.

And so, yeah, if you did this, that stairfall I was talking about in Fight Club, I mean, he was probably getting $500 each time on top of his salary. David, I like the idea that he's like, hey, man, listen, my kid needs new braces. Do you want to just throw me down a couple more times? Fuck it up. Exactly. And we will be right back.

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You mentioned that your wife is your producing partner. Yeah. Kelly. Talk to us about that. That's awesome. She's awesome. I mean, how long you been doing that? I mean, the fact that you never have to be separated because so much of what we do necessitates a separation from your family. And I know Boohoo, you know, these are high class problems. But

you know, it is kind of tough. It's so great. It sounds like you guys get to stick together all the time. Talk to us about that. It really is actually. I mean, we, so we've been, we've been married 12 years and it, we, and it's been, it's been amazing. Like, look, I, it, we, we met a little later in life and that, that was great. Um,

Was she a producer when you met her? Yeah. Is that how you guys met? She worked with Scott Rudin's company, and then she ended up in LA. And she is 100% responsible for me becoming a director. I will give her all the credit. So she wasn't a manager, but she hip-pocketed Chad and I

when she was working at this company called Sierra Affinity, which is a foreign sales company. And she was curating their slate of projects. And she was like, I'm going to get you guys. And Nick Meyer, the guy that owned that company, allowed her to do that. And so she really taught us how to take meetings and really was a champion to the agencies about these guys direct action, but they also tell stories. And she was like a big advocate for us. And she ended up...

Finding John Wick, it came through Sarah Finity's office and she sort of slipped it to Chad and I and she's like, you guys should meet on second unit and then you should pitch yourselves as directors. Because it's all action. Was that your first film as a director? Yeah. And was that the first John Wick? The first John Wick, yes. Wow. Keanu Reeves is notoriously very powerful.

picky and snobby in the best way about directors, as is Brad Pitt. Like, these guys just work in director vehicles, even though they're enormous stars and can work in and create star vehicles and just get any director that'll listen to whatever the hell they want to do. They don't do that. They love to work for... So, what a huge compliment that you...

ran through whatever gauntlet creatively through Keanu, who's so discerning. That's awesome. Yeah, he was incredibly supportive from the beginning. And he is, you're right, he's like a director's actor. Like, he loves the director. And we had worked with him for so long on the Matrix sequels. And we had trained him for those sequences. And Chad was actually his... So he was familiar with you guys. Yeah, and he... That's great. And then we had helped with...

choreography on Man of Tai Chi, something that he directed. And so we were like, we maintained that relationship and friendship. So then when it came up, hey, there's a lot of action in this movie. We'd love to be considered. And we put together our presentation, our lookbook, our sort of, you know, our character sketches and our arcs. And we pitched it to him. He said, let's go to Lionsgate and tell them

You want to do it. Do you ever see yourself, Dave, do you ever see yourself doing something kind of moody and small and talky just as a gear shift? Yeah, do you? You have a script you want to submit, Will? Yeah, if you got one. It's real talky. It's just me basically talking. It's in a room. It's, you know, it's hard because, I mean, I have so much fun, you know, since Deadpool, I, you know, everything's had...

a real fun tone. And I do enjoy comedy. That's why I'm, not only the reason, but I'm a huge fan of all your work, all you guys. You're just so fricking funny. And that's why we have to do something together, please.

The smartless stunt movie. I see it now. Let's do it. Where you just throw me down the stairs and that's it. Over and over and over. By the way, before you get into it, because I want to hear your answer of what you want to do, just a reminder, audience, the films that you've done, that you've directed, just that you've directed, John Wick, Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2, Hobbs and Shaw, Bullet Train, Fall Guy. Yeah, it's incredible. I know, these are all big movies.

big cinematic, you know, event movies that people love to go with. Really exciting stuff. Just to remind our listener, these are the movies that you love. And the degree of difficulty is super high. It's super high. So having said that, so you've done these big movies that take a lot of planning and a lot of resources and figuring. So do you see yourself making a... Something simpler. Yeah. No. Well, I do. I mean, look, the...

The fun moments for me right now, it's not the big action sequences. I mean, again, I love making them, but they're the sort of like earnest, dramatic moments. You know, I think into the fall guy, like some of the scenes with Ryan and Emily that are really sort of emotional. They're both such good actors. Yeah. Yeah, and like watching those, collaborating with those great actors and like bringing, you know, some real humanity to the screen, I think separates...

if I pat myself on the back for a second, I think it separates what... You know, people go to see my movies because they're big action movies and there's subversive comedy and all that, but they remember them because they love the characters so much. And it's because you actually cared about them. Right. Well, I think, and it goes to, David, also like how I kicked it off, which is you are such a great guy and you are such a... You are a very thoughtful person. And so it doesn't surprise...

It wouldn't surprise me if you did something like leaning more that way. And you're right, your movies do have those elements in it. So it'd be cool to see. I think you'd be really good at it. Yeah, I would love to do, you know, a straight up drama. I think right now I'm actually in Pittsburgh and I'm prepping the next movie. It's called How to Rob a Bank.

And it is sort of a new, you know, taking a heist movie and turning it on its head. And I have Nick Holt and Pete Davidson. Amazing. That's awesome. And there's a lot of dramatic elements in this project that was why I'm attracted to it. Yeah, talk about that for a sec. Like, would you have been as excited earlier, earlier, that a project like this sort of led with...

You know, just sort of – you need to be able to talk actor bullshit lingo and you need to be able to talk fucking lighting and editorial pace. But do you know what I mean? Like how was that a comfortable transition for you or not transition? Was it a comfortable process for you to learn and get –

as familiar with talking actor or talking gaffer or talking camera operator as it was talking stunts. Like, was that one of the big things that was like, oh, you know, I can coordinate a fight, but the other part of this directing stuff is being able to like help an actor kind of find a moment or talk to, you know, the...

the gaffer about you know what the lighting strategy might be in this thing or talk about that stuff or tell jason bateman that his wig is slipping off you know what i mean yeah you gotta take him to the side you know because no one knows no one's gonna tell yeah well i will say yes you get you get better each time out and i think but i did you know i had

for better or worse, I had the training wheels of second unit. And so with second unit, you're still working with actors and like, you know, a movie like this, you know, this blockbuster Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that Will and I worked on. It was a blockbuster. Number one for three weeks. Go ahead. It was. We, um, we, um,

I worked with Will. You know, I got to work with actors and we were working on performance even inside the action. So you were constantly like, you were learning actor speak at that, at that, at that well. But then, you know, obviously sitting in the first unit chair becomes, it's a different animal. But I felt really, really comfortable from the get-go. But I think it was, you know, having years of like,

Being a second unit director, getting more and more, a bigger piece of the film each time out. These big commercial films, you might have six weeks of second unit. It's a lot. And that's more than we had to shoot John Wick, the first movie. That's wild. What would folks listening who are not in this business, what part of the process as a director would they be surprised to hear is,

really not enjoyable, not really pleasant. Is it sort of the start of things like sort of pitching, trying to describe what you're going to do to these studio heads when you're sitting in an office? Or is it marketing it, like talking to the press afterwards about what to expect? There's so many different parts. Is there a part that's particularly unpleasant to you or a part that you're still kind of getting used to or making friends with?

I mean, getting them off the ground is always the hardest. Yeah. You know, it's just- Selling. Selling it, you know? And like, and getting people involved and getting their schedules right and like getting your key collaborators to believe in it. Even once you've sold it, just from the, even once they say yes, even from the yes to first day to actually showing up, you're like right to the end, right? You're like-

We're supposed, because never a hard green light. Are we greenlit? Are we greenlit? Are we greenlit? And you're working on the budget. Like the week before, they're like, it's kind of approved budget, right? Explain a little bit how that works. Yeah, you know, they say they want to make it for something and then you get it into that box and then, you know, you have a creative idea. Money-wise. That's a great idea. And then you're like, yeah, the money box. And then it's like the box expands and then you try and get it back in and it's constantly like,

Trying to hit a number, whether it's a $100 million movie because there's all these expectations that drive those costs up, or it's a $25 million movie like these ones that we produce that...

They're never agreeing. Nobody's coming out. Nobody 2 is coming out in August. That's another exciting. That's so psyched. With the great Bob Odenkirk, who we all know very well. I just saw him on stage. Gary Glenn Ross. I did too, Jay. So good. My God, was he great. So great. He's amazing. He's so good in Nobody 2. I'm really excited about it. We've had a great time making it. I was actually one of those where...

Kelly produced it, but I was on set quite a bit. It was really fun. Isn't that, Sean, that's your handle on Grindr is just nobody, right? That's correct, yeah. My photos are just neck down. So you don't get a lot of downtime to just go travel or do anything. I mean, it seems like you just go project to project to project. Right now, it's been that. The last 10 years has been pretty busy, I have to say. This is movie number seven.

And then plus the ones we produced, "Violent Night" with David Harbour and "The Nobody" with Bob.

So, but again, I love it. I guess I kind of grew up, as I said, my adult life was all physical production. I loved it. I love the set life. I love my fellow friends on there. I love like waking up eating the bad burrito and like, how do we get this done? Like, so I miss it. It's been two years since we were on set. Oh, no way. Really? Yeah. So for me, it's like, I'm ready to...

to dig in and, and, uh, shoot some stuff. How are you liking Pittsburgh? What have you found up there in Pittsburgh that you, uh, that you're liking to do, uh,

Honestly, we play pickleball. Oh, yeah? Good. Have you experienced any life-scarring injuries from pickleball? Because you can really recognize it. I knew somebody that works in the ER just recently. She said most of the people that come in here because of pickleball. Oh, it's pretty brutal. David, no offense. I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of pickleball. You're not? Did you play tennis? I'm a purist. I don't know. I think of pickleball, it's a fat man sport. Okay.

It's replaced racquetball. You stand in the middle of the thing, the ball's going to come to you eventually. Racquetball. I love racquetball. I know. You used to play with Johnny Schwartz. Remember? Yeah. JB back in the day. I love it. There's even places to play racquetball anymore? I loved it as a kid. When you find them, you're like, oh my God, look at that big white room.

No, I like squash because it was harder, you know what I mean? And you had to run. Yeah, but there's a very unsatisfying sound and hit. How dare you say that about squash? We all enjoyed it immensely. So you're playing a lot of pickleball, which is good. Yeah, our nephews go to Carnegie Mellon, Kelly's nephews. And so it's been odd being here. They're both in college and we're now...

"Here on prep." And it's like, "Hey, you guys wanna hang out? "It's Saturday night." And they're like, "Uh, we're in college." Yeah, I get it. And you're 50. Yeah, exactly. And you're 50, yes, exactly. Well, again, David, I just wanna say, I wanna reiterate how cool it is what you've done for the stunt performers. Really cool.

To bring them, you know, yeah, to get them recognized and that the Academy did that is really awesome. And so congrats to everybody. And again, another testament. What a great dude and what an awesome guy. What a great director you are that you've become and increasingly, it's just so fucking rad. I'm happy to know you and-

Continued success, my friend. Yeah, it's great to talk to you for a bit about all this, man. Thank you for doing this. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, man. This has been so fun. Send my love to Kelly, if you will, please. I will. Yeah, and we'll talk to you really soon. And have a great time out there in Pittsburgh. I appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. See you, bye. Cheers, pal. You too. Bye, bye. Bye.

That was a great guest there, Willie. Yeah. How's it going? Really super guy. I'm such a fan of his. I'm really stoked it worked out and that the sketch worked out. And he's such a great guy. And I have had the pleasure. We also made a commercial together that hasn't aired for a bunch of reasons. And it was something that it was great, but we didn't really have to do much. And we were just on a stage for three days at Paramount. Yeah, he seems like a really fun hang.

So we just kind of hung out for three days. And we did this thing. It was fine. And the people were really nice. And we did a nice thing. But I just got to spend an additional three days with him like four months ago. And it was so great. He's such a good, thoughtful dude. I think we should workshop what the Smart List movie would be that we can pitch to him. It should be stunt intensive. Well, of course. The three of us get kidnapped by a disgruntled listener. Yeah. And...

And we're tied up in the back of a van. Disgruntled listener. And Sean is held hostage at the donut factory. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh, I'm back in, I'm back in. It is just to keep him fucking quiet. He's got a dozen donuts in his mouth the entire movie. By the way, by the way, the last day, our last day, mine and Scotty, because Scotty's in Will's movie as well. Yeah. We sent donuts to everybody on set. They did.

They did. They sent donuts. And then I asked him if he'd had any. He said, of course. And then I had a great moment. I will say, I won't say where. But I had a great moment. There was this big, Shoshana Scott, he sent this like, I don't know, like 30 boxes of donuts on this big table. And at one point I see like four cops standing

standing over it. And I was like, and I didn't have my, I never had my phone. I was like, where's my fucking phone? It's real. I know. It was pretty good. It's real. They were great guys. David's great though. You know what, the one thing. Here he comes. No, no, no, no. This isn't it yet. But I did want to ask him because he does seem so level-headed and like really cool, like you're saying. He is really cool. Really like down to earth. And Jay, you're the same way, I imagine on set where you're just, but it's like those types of personalities that are

Like just down to earth and have to keep everybody happy on a set. What do you do when you get so fucking pissed about a person or something? How do you stuff it? And then how does it come out later? Well, let's ask Amanda because she's usually... Wait, wait, sorry. She bears the brunt of most of the frustration. Wait, wait, wait. Sean, I'm sorry. I was actually reading something. All right. Say that one more time. Oh, my God. No, no, honestly.

we just got a pitch for a buy. But what was the, did you say when somebody says something that you don't like, how do you keep your face? No, no, no. Like you guys have personalities where you're very level-headed and you have to keep the peace on set all the time. And when somebody or something really pisses you off, you can't let it out. So how do you let it out later? Or what do you do about stuffing all that

Yeah, I know. I mean, I am not perfect with this. I'm sure some will attest. But I guess you just, like in anything, like you or Will or anybody else in this world, you just hope that you have managed your day properly leading up to that point where you are living in a place of...

patience and compromise that you need to sort of... Yeah, there just must be so many things that are just like, what the fuck? Like all day long when you're directing. Like when anybody's directing. Why are you so mad yourself right now? You're already worked up. I know, because I feel like I would be that way. That's why. It is part of the job though, right? It is part of the job to manage all the incoming...

If you're gonna raise your hand for a leadership position, there's a lot that comes with it. So unless you can do it all, keep your hand up. You know what it is I think that you gotta do? I think that in those moments when you have that stuff, no, you just gotta be calm and you gotta think about what certain people would do. Like, you know, historically people who were good. So you think about great people and thing, you might think about this and you think about God and whatever you do, you can always look it up in the,

Bible. Or you might need to just bite your tongue. Bible. Don't waste that one. Bible. Smart. Less. Smart. Less.

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Hey friends, Jason here. We're so excited. The Smart List has officially joined the SiriusXM family. We can't wait to announce new surprise guests who we know that you'll love. If you want to be the first to hear new episodes ad-free in a whole week early, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit SiriusXM.com slash podcasts plus to start your free trial today.

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Hey everybody, Conan O'Brien here with an ad about my podcast, Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I've had so many fantastic conversations with people I truly admire, people like Michelle Obama, Bruce Springsteen, Maya Rudolph, Tom Hanks. New episodes are out every Monday and we have a really good time. So subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts.