Shownotes Transcript
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One, two, three, go. Talking about a podcast. Talking about a podcast. Talking about a podcast. Yeah. Welcome to Smart List. Welcome to Smart List. Welcome to a podcast. Let's start. Smart List. Smart List. Smart List.
Did you guys see each other last night? Did you have a fun day? Yeah, we did. We had a little Grammy watch party. Oh, you did? You did a full... I almost called in. I almost did a call in because I miss everybody. I know. We miss you too. When are you back? You're not back for what, two more months? No, I'm coming back tomorrow for a few days, but I'm going to miss this weekend. I know this weekend is a thing up at the place for a friend, and I can't... Yeah, I'm not there either. I can't go because... I'm really bummed.
You're going to go, right? No, I'm not. I can't. I go to London tomorrow.
Oh, you're going to London tomorrow? You start tomorrow? No, no. No, but I mean, you start your journey, your process. Do you have a complicated character you're playing in this next job, Shawnee? Not at all. No? So no homework, no process, no... I mean, yeah, because I'm a nerd, I do all that stuff still, but it's... Wait, wait, give us a slight little window into that. Well, it's the same... Can we say hi to your character? Yeah.
Can he make a visit with us? Sure. Let me see. Go ahead. Do you have a question for him? Hey, good morning. How are you? Good morning. Oh, wow. He's a radio personality? No, he's a game show host. Oh, really? Oh, okay. And what's his name? I don't know his name. It's just a game show host. Oh, his name is just host. Okay. So host, how are we doing today?
I'm not doing this. It's so icky. I was just about to throw up. You get shy, Will. You get shy. Could you imagine? Wait, let me quickly, and this is universal. You're going overseas. You're flying. You're taking a night flight. Are you going to eat the meal on the plane? Will you eat on the plane? JB, will you eat the airline food? I got to stay alive. I do like the airline food. You do? It's gotten better over the last 50 years. I'd heard a rumor that they stock it full of stuff to stop you from pooing.
What, to stop you up, you mean? Yeah. There's a binding element to all plain food? Sure, a binding element, because they don't want people like Sean and Scotty, you know, just gorging themselves and then all of a sudden, like, you know, creating...
Will, what newsletters are you into lately? I mean, are you like, where are you getting all this? You know, I still subscribe to all my German poop mags. Remember those Air Mall magazines that used to be in the place? Oh, I love them. Yes, they're so popular. Yeah, like the hammock or Schlemmer section on it and stuff. You're like, of course I need a fucking ping pong table that folds up into a card table. I can put it in my trunk.
Did you ever buy anything from one of those? I think like a dog door. Do they still have barf bags in the back of the seats? They do. I haven't looked for a while. They do because I chew a lot of gum. But isn't that interesting? Like a lot of people don't throw up like they did in the 70s. Now nobody throws up on a plane. You think that people threw up less?
Yeah, that's right. On a plane. On a plane. Like when have you seen somebody throw up on a plane? Right. It used to be in every flight. Have you ever thrown up on a plane? No. Oh, sure, I have. I did. I had too much kiwi once. Yeah. Jesus. I threw up. I threw up. I got on a plane. I was super hungover. I was about 18. Okay. I'm not kidding. Well, you threw up from hungover, not the plane. Yeah, not the plane. But I remember vividly, we were taxing out, leaving Toronto, and just...
As we start to increase speed, I go, I'm going to need my bag. Somebody had sealed it with a piece of gum. Can I just say, it's gross. I filled it.
I filled the bag. I had to get another... I had to hold it as we took off. I'm going to throw it out of the bag. Oh, my. It was a... What a dream. Actually, it should be noted, I threw up in the airport terminal before I got on the plane. Get this. I was walking in the old Toronto Terminal No. 1, so it shows you how long ago it was. It was long gone. And I remember walking to the gate, I guess, from having checked in and being like...
Oh, boy. I got to go. And I ran, and there was a, I opened a door. I thought there was a bathroom. There was no bathroom, but there was a door, and I opened it, and it's just the stairs, like the raw stairs going between the stairs. And you're like, oh, that'll do. And there were people coming, and I literally go, whoa! And they moved, and they threw up down the stairs. Just a big cascade. Projectile. Projectile. That is something. Isn't that unreal?
It was so gross. God, that's funny. Have either of you guys thrown up in a while? No, not in a long time. About 10 years ago, I was doing reshoots on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I was like, I woke up one morning, and I started throwing and going. It was a two-part affair. Everything was happening at once, and then we were on reshoots, and we had to go, and I went, and...
Everybody, like most other people on set had gotten this bug was going through. And at one point I was working, shooting a scene with somebody and they go, the director goes, "Okay, Will." Okay, he's like, "Okay, just come out here and you just gotta run across the parking lot." I go, "Dude, I'm not running anywhere 'cause if I run one foot--" One foot. It's all over. Something's gonna open. What was the movie? Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Wonderful.
Which is a great segue to our guest. I really enjoyed that film. That's a callback. I'll say. I love it. My guest today has been a close friend of mine for decades. She's... Get to the good part. He's so far from the stage. I can't believe it.
Guys. Who is the guest? What I got? Fuck. Fuck me. Thank God I'm crying. Me too. Okay.
Now listen, we got it. Come on, guys. You know what I think? I truly believe when you laugh that deep, you're killing cancer. I truly believe that. I think you're right. I think you're right. All right, well, we have to explain to her what the joke is, so she's in on it. All right, so she's a very good friend of mine. She's a Peabody, an Emmy Award-winning journalist and producer, as well as a devoted mother, grandmother, and friend to so many. She's the person I go to for advice about literally anything. She's the author of seven New York Times bestselling books. Seven?
I've been trying to get her to read them to me. Born in Chicago, just like me, but the former first lady of California, which is only slightly like me. It's the luminescent and brilliant and wonderful friend, Maria Shriver. I got it. I got it before you said it. Okay. Good morning. You had to sit through all of that. I can't believe that. I can't believe I'm going on thrones.
The glowing, the glowing. I just am like, oh, I feel so at home. I have four brothers. Why did you say yes to this? A lot is happening. A lot is happening. You grew up like that. I grew up like that. I still live like that. So I have four brothers. So this was not a shock to me at all.
I actually really enjoyed it. They're also dingbats, just like us. Forgive us. The barf bag. I've sat next to people like that. Maria, I have been so jealous of your friendship with Shawnee for so long. I hear you're just the greatest ever. This is the first day of our friendship. I'm very excited. The first day of our friendship. I know I've been asking Shawn to invite me on this show since the very beginning, and he wouldn't invite me. No, no way. He wouldn't invite me.
He would never invite me. What was the reason he gave? Wait a minute. He said, we have to start with all the famous people. You said a friend of mine keeps texting me and asking me and I keep telling her, was it Maria? Now we're getting close to it.
No, Maria Shriver. Oh, Sean. No, I said to you. You just named that about me? No, no. Oh my God. No, I said to you what, I said, do you want to come on? You said, what am I going to talk about? What would I ever talk about? This was five years ago when we started. And now you're like, can I come on the show?
I'm like, of course you can. I'm like, because people all say to me, why has Sean never had you on his show? It's so weird. I go, I know. It's so weird. It is weird. It is weird. No. We can talk to you about anything, though, is what I love about you. You can tackle any issue. Yes, that's why I can't wait to talk about 10,000 things. But you said to me, I said, what I'm so excited about is the only show I've ever gone on where I haven't prepared at all. Because you told me not to prepare at all. Correct. So I didn't brush my hair. I had no makeup.
Yeah, because we're not filming this. It's just audio. It's a podcast. You know what a podcast is. Yeah, but I didn't prepare. Please don't explain to her what a podcast is. Thank you, Will. Thank you. I mean, my God. This is a bridge too far. Really? Oh, my God. It's insulting. Insulting. All right. I can sit here with three men. I don't know what's that about. We're going to talk about that, too. All right. Three men? Yes.
Okay. You are, okay, first of all, you're one of the most special people in my life. I love you very much. I love you too. I've known you for a very long time. How'd you guys meet, by the way? How did this start? It started in 2001-ish, around there. And I used to date somebody that knew Maria, and that's how we introduced ourselves. Oh, God. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
So my first question, go ahead. No, you go ahead with your first question. I was just going to say, because you've been that to me and so many things to me, and you're always the person I go to for advice and blah, blah, blah. Who was that for you?
Good question. I often go to my kids, actually. I have deep conversations with my kids. It depends what I'm looking for advice for. I have four brothers, so I usually go to them. I would say I go to my four brothers, depending on the subject matter. So each brother is a little different. They have a different level of expertise in different areas. But I often go to probably my brothers, my kids, my...
Sometimes my son-in-law, now, I go to him. We love your son-in-law. We love him. Yeah, I love him too. So for my sister, that's Chris Pratt. My sister who doesn't... We adore Chris. We love him. We play golf with him sometimes. We like to hang out with him. He's the funniest...
He's such a naturally funny guy. Yeah, he imitates you guys playing golf. Does he? Uh-oh. Yeah, he does. It must take a while. It's not pretty. It's not pretty. No, no, no. It's not pretty. Throw your ball into the woods and that's an imitation of me playing golf. Maria, what area lately do you find yourself reaching out for advice on? What area in this crazy-ass world is confusing you most?
Well, how to stay engaged and not be mean in the engagement. How to get above all of the rancor and still stay in the
trying to make the world better. Still trying to figure out how to keep your voice measured. Really good word. How to keep myself focused on what I'm trying to focus on and not get mixed up in what everybody wants to get you mixed up in. Sometimes I do that well and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I ask my priest...
actually, depending on what the subject is. Well, you know, lately, not to get too political, but it does seem that lately... That's how we grew up.
Lately, there seems to be this pressure on one side to kind of take the gloves off and meet the other side where they're at. And I'm wondering if you have a perspective on that. Yes, I don't. Not to get political. I try not to do that.
Not to get political. I try not to do that. I try not to get into that at all. I try to just figure out what do I want to change in the world? What's my issue? What are the one or two things I want to do? And I try to stay on that and really focus on that. I have a spiritual practice that helps me in the morning stay focused. Uh-huh.
And I try to talk about my own emotional sobriety. And I try to think about, okay, how is this going to put my own ball down the court? I work on Alzheimer's research a lot. I work on women's health. And so I try to kind of focus on
on those things. And I try not to kind of attack people personally, which is always a challenge. I think that's really smart. I love that. I love you talking about your spiritual practice you do in the morning and your emotional sobriety. I really love that idea. Yeah, I've never heard of that. And do what you can in the immediate and be present in your life right here. Yeah, I also try to follow people that,
I admire who are inspiring, who I respect. And there's a great guy named Father Richard Rohr who has a school, it's called Contemplatives in Action. And I think that that's a really cool concept to be in the
but to be contemplative in it, to bring about change in the world, but how you go about doing it. I think we think all the time we have to be angry and divisive and partisan to bring about any change. And I don't subscribe to that. I think that we can walk into the world and be...
determined to be focused, but we don't have to be angry and mean about it. It's kind of like, how do you fight, so to speak? And we always think you have to fight
rough and tumble and mean. And I think you can fight for an issue in a very focused way, but not a mean, divisive way. Yeah, for sure. So you're so accomplished in so many different areas and mediums. And how are you... You mentioned Alzheimer's and women's health. Are you... How are you pointing all those superpowers of yours right now? What do you... Where are you...
Were you enjoying putting all that stuff? We're going to get into that. She's got a wonderful magazine. Yes. I just, I love, last year I worked with President Biden and we started the very first White House initiative on women's health and research. That was big news. That was huge news. It was really big because there had never been
believe it or not, in this country, a White House initiative on women's health and research. And there had never been, we only spend 10% of the NIH budget on women's health and research. So we're so far behind. And that's been a passion. Even though they're more than 50% of the population. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so that was a really big passion project. And we did a lot of great work before he left. And so that's something that still really
important to me because we're really far behind for women of all ages. And especially if you're, you know, the thing, one of the things I learned from you too is the, all of the statistics about women's health and women's Alzheimer's specifically, because I've been afflicted with it in my family, you have with your dad and my mom. And so one of the things, you know, you always said
In your research and your education about it, you've said it's really important to, as you get older, learn an instrument, learn a language, force yourself to remain social. Because you want to be more sedentary when you get older. You're just like, I don't want to go out. I don't want to do anything. But it's so important to challenge your brain as you get older because nobody knows if you're going to get this. Are you thinking about starting? Yeah, I'm going to think about starting.
Sean's like his Broadway play show. I mean, talk about memory. Yeah, yeah. Talk about an instrument. I went there and I, of course, made you cry. We've talked about it ad nauseum. Maria, would you say that staying, and I point this towards my partners here, would you think that staying in your house 364 days a year, do you think that that's healthy? No. No.
That's not how, I don't think you do that, though. Well, it depends on what you're doing inside that house. What are you doing inside that house? You go first. Me? Well, listen, when you talk about an instrument, does a remote control count? Shh.
Yeah, you got to learn how to manipulate. Yeah, I can't do that. I have to call my son all the time. And he's like, I've shown you this before, Mommy. I said, I know, but I can't remember. Could you show it again? I was at your house for dinner last Thursday. And this big thing, we're watching TV, and this big thing comes on the screen. And we're like, how do you get rid of this? She's like, it'll go away. It'll just go away.
Turn it off, turn it on. It's not going away. Just leave it alone. It'll go away. It'll go away. And did it go away? Did it go away? It actually did. Okay, it went away. It went away. It said, update now, update later, press here. And Sean's like, move it, move it. So I can watch the three of you. That's what he kept saying. He's like, I want to mirror the three of us. I'm like, just wait a minute. We'll watch the three of you. He goes, do you want to watch one version of us or do you want to watch 10 different clips of us? I said, oh, I want to watch 10 different clips. That's it.
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I don't remember what it's called, but you go to a place every August, is it, or something where, or you used to at least, where you go off the grid and you, what is that? It was like a spirituality place or something? No, actually, no, that's totally wrong. Great work, Sean. We're done, thank you. Way to listen, what a good friend. I go to the last, I go to a place where my emotional sobriety is challenged and that's, I go home to Hyannisport where all my cousins are. Oh. Where I need a practice. Oh.
Oh, you don't want to talk about that place, that other thing you do? What other thing I do? That thing that you used to go to where you had to put your cell phone down and you didn't have to, it was like a retreat or something. Yeah, I've been to a lot of retreats. That's Hoffman. That's what it is. I want to go there so badly. I keep hearing about that place. What is it? Tell them. I went there.
You're not equipped, JB. You can't do it. No, I can't do it. Actually, I'm going back for a tune-up again. I'm a big believer in exploring yourself. That's kind of why I wrote this new book on poetry and reflection. Called I Am Maria. Yes, I am. And there's a long story behind that. But...
Anyway, I'm a big believer in trying to understand why you may feel dissatisfied, why you may feel stuck, why you may feel angry. Why do you erupt here, there, and everywhere? What is going on inside of you? You erupt! Sorry. Sorry, that just came out of nowhere. These are the bits.
The listeners love the bill. I feel like I'm at home. I feel like I'm so at home. I've asked Sean to bring you guys to dinner one night. Oh, we'd love to, Sean. Never. He's never mentioned that. Relay that. No. I'm not kidding. He's never said that. Sean, you said that.
Remember I said when we did those questions that lovers do, marriage couples do. And so I asked Sean to do it with me. And one of the things was, you know, you had to go through what do we like about each other? How do we want the other person to grow? He had done it with Scotty. So I said, can you do it with me? Right. And then one of the things I said to you at the end is I want you to invite me.
Yeah. To meet your friends. Okay, okay. He's never mentioned it. All right, I'm going to make it happen. He's never mentioned it. He's never mentioned it. I know, God. Here's the thing, and I might be divulging, this might be too much information, but I've recently been made aware of the term
or the idea of being intimate with yourself. Yes. And that's not what you think, JB. Damn it. I thought we were going to hear some technique. No, no, no, no. It's this idea about learning how to be intimate with yourself is a process that I've been sort of going through recently, and it's been really...
and really tough to do. It's a new practice for me. How do you do that? Well, it's about... Well, it's a form of therapy that I'm sort of going through. It's part of the therapy that I've been experiencing of late. And it's about...
you know, going back and being honest with myself about things and about where I've been and about allowing myself to feel certain things that I was potentially avoiding for a long time, etc., etc., etc. -Yeah. -Yeah. And it's good for men to do that. Well, you can't-- And the idea-- Yes, it's good for men. And the idea is that you can't have real intimacy with somebody else if you cannot be intimate with yourself. -Bingo. -That's interesting. -Yeah. -Bingo. Which I was like, "Oh, all right."
I love that. I love that you're doing that because I think it's, I do that through writing and sometimes I've done it through therapy, but I find that when I write and if I write early in the morning and I write when it's quiet and that's what this book kind of is a lot of poetry. It's kind of on the stream of consciousness, just allowing stuff to come up.
And you find there's a whole other person living in there or a whole other voice that wants to speak, which is really fascinating. Yeah. It's been interesting. And also I was thinking about when you said, JB, I think you, or one of you did, who are the people that you go to, Maria, to talk to about things? Yeah.
And what are the conversations? And there is somebody, we have a mutual friend who I go to, who's other than these guys who I talk to about a lot of these things, who's my buddy Clay, whom I think you know. Yeah, I go to Clay too. And Clay's my guy. And he is my, he's one of my best friends. And he is my, he's my brother. I love him. And he's been incredible.
to me on so many levels. I love that. Oh, I love that. That's so beautiful. My brother now goes to Clay too. Yes. Clay is really great at reminding you who you are. Yeah. At telling you what he sees. Mm-hmm.
And reassuring you that that voice that's telling you you're, you know, all those other things is wrong. And that what he sees is what other people see. And I think we all need a friend like that, actually. Sean, you're like that with me, right? You tell me what you see. You remind me when I go down a hole. They often, in lyrical, sometimes people call that an anamkara voice.
There's a book about that that John O'Donohue, the poet, wrote called the Anamkara, which means soul friend. It's Gaelic, right? It means soul friend. And it's somebody who is a very intimate friend. It can be a sexual person, but it can often very not be at all. And it's just someone who sees you, who reflects back to you who you are, who tells you, who's honest with you, who tells you what they see. Yeah.
I love that. And reassures you that you're on the path and also is honest enough to tell you when you've fallen off of it and can remind you that you can get back up. That's really, and yeah, Sean, you hear that. It's an intimate friend, right? It can be sexual and it's, that's a call, it's a Gaelic. Yeah. Um,
It's like a salt lick. But actually, I think I met, you know what, Marie? I met your brother at Clay's birthday. You met me at Clay's birthday. We had met before, though. Yeah, but we talked there. We talked there, but I didn't want to say that we met there because you don't remember the first time we met, but I do. We had met years ago. Sean, let's you and I take a quick five. I didn't want to put you on the spot.
Tell me, where did we meet the first time? Years ago at Sean's house. And Sean, this is over 20 years ago. Sean had a card game, had a big poker night at his house. Do you remember that? It was like... It was so long ago. Is that another thing that I wasn't at? No, you were there, actually. You were... You had switched numbers. You had changed phone numbers. No. This was like 25 years ago. Yeah, it was a long time ago. We were still friends then.
That's cool. We'll double back on this after we sign off. Anyway, yeah, you're right. But it is great having those kind of people in your life. Yeah, I love that. And I like these guys. We have the same thing. It's not holding your feet to the fire, but it's the ability to go, hey, this is what's going on and being unafraid to say, hey, have you thought about this in a way that's kind and
and constructive. Yes. And that exercise that Maria was talking about where we wrote each other like, you know, good things, things to work on, whatever, blah, blah, blah. I said to her, you remember mine, the big one to you.
was, hey, do you think you could introduce me to people when I come over to your house? Because she, for your whole life, has been so huge, filled with so many people constantly 24-7 in your house, out of your, it's like a revolving door of all these people that come in and out. And I'll see these people and you'll be like, yeah, that's Martha. So anyway, come over. And I'm like, who is, like, who is that? And I'll be sitting next, like having a hamburger next to somebody. And I'm like, I have no idea who this person is. And you just assume that I know them.
And are you bringing your own hamburgers? Are you bringing the burgers with you? He does bring his own dessert, though. He does bring his own dessert. He sure does. He does. Is it any wonder why his husband is a diabetic? LAUGHTER
Sean's got a truck full of treats. No, I bring my own desserts because as wonderful as you are to feed me, a lot of the times the desserts are gluten-free, sugar-free, bubbly-free. But that's because of Scotty. Why are you doing a funny voice? I'm doing that because of Scotty. Oh, I didn't know that. Out of respect, Sean. Out of respect. Unlike you, she's not trying to kill your husband. Right.
I love his husband. He's so calm, so steady. He's the best. We love Scotty. We love Scotty. Scotty is the best. Maria, you touched on going back home and visiting your family and needing to sort of arm yourself, if you will, with the spiritual program.
The idea of growing up with that kind of, and continued sort of being part of a family that is under that kind of scrutiny, what does that do? 'Cause we all have-- Well, tell Tracy, like, so your dad is the great Sergeant Shriver. Your mom is Eunice Kennedy, who is the sister of JFK, and you're the niece and blah, blah, blah. Okay.
Okay. I am Maria. I am Maria. Right. And that's what I wanted to talk about. I am Maria. And that's what I wanted to talk about. You can find it in paperback or on I Am Maria. She is Maria.
Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria.
Where do I go? I just would first like to deal with Will. Welcome to Smart List. Because I'm your guest or should I go to you? But it has to do with Will, what Will's about to say. Okay. So the reason I brought up the Hoffman thing is because you had shared with me
that part of your journey at Hoffman was a guy came up to you and immediately started asking you about your lineage, right? And you're like, hang on. And it upset you because you're like, wait, my name is Maria Shriver. I am my own person. I have my own accomplishments. I have a family. I'm all these things that you are without the Kennedys, right? And then you had an epiphany that you shared with me. Like, wait, but part of me is that. And to shun it is...
is wrong right and so and then i know that has that that's kind of a prep to what will is probably going about about to ask you what was it why i'd already asked her what is it do you feel but yes sure that's that's adjacent to what i'm saying which is yeah that's i'm right here yeah adjacent adjacent adjacent abatement yeah my new mobile company yeah yeah yeah
I think it's going to do well. I think it will, yeah. That's funny. But talk about that then. It's a lot. It's a lot, actually. But I find after doing a lot of work, I find myself now in a really good place about it. Well, because—and the reason I—what's interesting is, you know, you hear people who have made names of themselves as a—
Whatever it is, name the discipline. And then people say, and if they say, well, it's tough being in this position, the critics say, well, fuck it, that's the price you pay for being famous. And they say that, right? So you can't complain. In a lot of ways, even though you've had so many great accomplishments that you've forged on your own, you were born into it. You didn't have a choice is the truth, right? Yeah.
Right, yeah, but I think we all have a choice about how we want to conduct ourselves in that experience, right? And I think what I tried to do was outwork my lineage, which was a mistake. And I thought, like, oh, if I...
you know, get accomplished if I do all these things, then you won't be introducing me by whose daughter I am, whose cousin I am, whose niece I am, and won't be talking to me only about those things. And that was a driver, certainly, but I think it was unrealistic because I came to understand, like, I'm never going to outwork them.
I'm never going to outperform that. I'm never going to out that, right? So to speak. So getting to a place where like, okay, wait a minute, let me figure out how to accept that, how to be happy when people come up and that's all they want to talk to me about. And then just try to understand that I have my own practice. I have friends who understand who I am, who love me for me, and that I can't change everybody's opinion. Like I go through the process
or I sit down and that's what all people want to talk to me about, I just go, okay, now I understand that. I just let that be and I don't get mad at them. Yeah, yeah. But it's so funny. Like growing up in my generation and seeing you on TV all the time, I would never ever think of talking to you about that because I grew up seeing you as Maria Shriver only. Yeah, exactly. Even more famous than any of sort of any Kennedy lineage could ever.
could put on someone. Like you were extremely successful in carving your own name, your own position, your own profile. Yeah. But people want to talk to me about the other. Yeah.
Right. Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. And so I think it's just getting to a place of understanding that, that that's part of you and not fighting it. And then just trying to figure out, okay, what do I want to do? Which brings me back, you know, what are the issues that I care about? And not feeling like I'm not performing if I'm not running for president. That's kind of how I grew up. Like, if you're not going to
you know, run for that, like get out of the way, you know, go to the back of the room. So I had to go like, okay, you know, and my mother was also a total force of nature, quite a tough woman. And she also was not interested in hearing any complaint about anything. Right. So I wanted to ask you about that because, because the few lunches I had with her and you, I'd be sitting, she scared the shit out of me.
I'd be sitting there having lunch and we had a couple of good laughs. Yeah, she's funny. Yeah, she's funny. But you're right. She's very guarded or whatever, however you want to describe it. And you are one of the best mothers I've ever witnessed. Thank you. Like the rules that you put in place and the boundaries and the love and all of those things as a mother was incredible to witness.
But did you recognize that in your mom that she is this kind of, like you said, force of nature in an emotional way? Did you find that, okay, well, like all of us, we got to take the good stuff from our parents and the stuff that maybe we don't want to take. And how did you find that balance? And were you aware of how she was?
Well, I was aware she terrified everybody and she terrified me too. So I mean, I, so I was aware of that. I was aware that she was formidable and, you know, I stood up, as I said, every time she walked in the room till the day she died, right? Both my parents, I was raised that way. My grandparents, my parents, you know, like,
They're in charge, they're running the roast and they had really high expectations. And I was, and my brothers, so they were very clear about their expectations. So, and if you were not doing them,
Well, you just did not do that. Yeah, yeah. How did that transfer into your style of parenting? Like my dad was super duper strict and I found that I kind of went the other direction to a certain extent. Like I wanted my kids to feel a little bit more of a friendship with me than I had with my dad. But then I also recognized that
that I had this big authority figure, this disciplinarian in front of me was very good for me, gave me a lot of structure. And so I thought, oh, maybe I'm doing a disservice to my kids. So I kind of tried to tack back. Like, how did you find a balance there? Well, I tried to kind of take a lot of the things both my parents instilled in me, but I tried to be softer in that I tried to say, I love you. I tried to touch them and hold them and nurture them.
And, you know, I guess really touch, you know, hold them. And, you know, I think my, but I also have, and through Hoffman and other work, understood that my mother, you know, asking my mother to give me something that wasn't given to her was unfair. Right, right, right. And so she didn't grow up being held like that. She didn't grow up being held.
she was loved in a different way. And I felt loved, but not like how I would look at other people's mothers. It wasn't the same thing, you know? We'll be right back. So here we are in SmartList and running it takes wearing a lot of hats. And one of those hats is the tech hat. And I'm not very good at tech, especially running a website.
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Was that a big moment for you when you started? I remember certain things about not forgiving your parents, but when you have an understanding and appreciation of what it is, what their limitations are because of how they were brought up, etc. First of all, it happens later in life than you wish. You wish it would happen when you were 18. Right. What was that like for you? Was that a sort of a watershed moment in your life?
Yeah. And, and I, it continued to be in multiple ways. And even after my mother passed away, it was, um, I continued to learn about her and continue to, uh, change my, um, relationship with her in death as well. And, um, trying to understand how she was raised, what she was up against. Um, you know, my mother, uh,
She dressed in men's pants. She carried a briefcase. She smoked cigars. She only hung out with men. She'd have, you know, like our table was filled with men. And when like they would bring their wives and maybe wives would go into one corner, she'd always go with the men. She had her cigar out. She'd have her, you know, pencils in her hair. And she was like on it. She was like not messing around at all. So I was like, okay, is that a woman? Yeah.
I was like, is that the way you're supposed to do it? You know, I don't know. She was very competitive, hyper-competitive, tried to beat all her children, beat everybody who came around. And so she was... And challenging, not physically. Very challenging. Yeah, not physically. Be competitively. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not beat them. Thank you, Sean. You're welcome. That's from here. But...
I admired that. That's how she created the Special Olympics. That's how she created change in the field of people with intellectual disabilities. She willed it into action and she stomped the halls of Capitol Hill and she forced her brother when he was president and her other brothers when they were in the Senate to change laws and
she was relentless and that created tremendous change. So I kind of watched that and I tried to figure out, okay, how do I do that out of the house, but not in the house? Now, I'm sure you've answered this a thousand times. I apologize for not knowing the answer, but what was the main thing that kept you from ever really formally going into a political position and the feeling that you could affect change a little bit more from the private sector?
Well, my experience with politics was assassination. And I also, my dad ran for vice president in 72 and lost. And it was a big, that was a huge watershed moment for me. Yeah. And-
I also watched people come over to our home who were involved in politics, who were one way in our house and a different way on television and outside. And I didn't like that. So for me, it was just, it felt, you know, I felt, and I watched my mother, as I said, do things outside of politics and create change. And my dad as well started the Peace Corps, the War on Poverty, Head Start,
- Wow, geez. - You know, foster grandparents, Job Corps, the list goes on. And I watched how they changed the world outside of running for office. - Yeah. - And so I thought, you know, that was a good model
to emulate. What incredible examples of like, and using their time and their position. And Jay, how many days a week did you play golf last week? Oh boy. Uh, I can tell you first of all, let me say I was very peaceful while I did it. Okay. Okay. Good for you. The core of what I was doing. No, I don't think that's what the peace core means. Yeah. They put a P on the end of it for some weird reason. Um,
I was actually talking to my 18-year-old yesterday about, oh no, was it the 12-year-old? I can't remember. One of the daughters yesterday about service right after school and how some countries make that a requirement. And where do you sit on that? I feel like it'd be such a great thing. Someone was talking about it on TV the other day about how it would foster this great healthy sense of,
shared responsibility. Do you mean monetary service? No, it could take any form. Yeah, in some countries it's military. In other countries it's just serving the greater good, some sort of civil. Peace Corps came to mind when I was talking to her. That's what made me think of it when you were talking about it. Where do you stand on that? Sean, you did Up With People for two years, didn't you? Yeah, I did Down With People. Yeah.
I think it's a great idea. I think it's a great idea. We actually in this weekly, I heard you asking about, you know, newsletters. And I have a newsletter that goes out every Sunday called the Sunday Paper. And we actually published yesterday this op-ed from these two friends of mine, John Bridgeland and Alan Casey, called Big Citizenship. And the idea about, you know, proposing to this administration about what we actually need is a big service core.
where everybody could be of service to their country for one or two years. And you could be at AmeriCorps, you could be in Teach for America, you could be in the Peace Corps. And actually, when Arnold was governor and I was first lady, we tried to do that. We started a California Corps of people volunteering for California. And I always felt that that would be something that people would bring people from all walks of life
together. And I worked for a while on a National Service Corps proposal, which never got off the ground. But, you know, it's a financial, I think it's more of a financial issue for the federal government. I think there's tremendous desire there that people really want and would, whether it's a gap year or
And that there's so many ways to be, you could have an environmental core. They have that in California, environmental core. You could, I tried to do that because we need so many more caregivers for people with Alzheimer's and dementia and Parkinson's and all this sort of stuff. If people went, you know, could they get free tuition if they went to a state school, if they gave two years to be a caregiver? It's a great idea. Yeah. JB, when they canceled Hogan family, didn't you have a gap year? Oh yeah. Yeah. A lot. More of a decade. Yeah.
He doesn't remember it. But yeah, it would be, you know, not to be too cynical, but it does seem like the...
The miracle of it all or the big thing that would get it moving would be what is the carrot on the other side for the person who's volunteering, quote unquote? Like is it free tuition? Is it a more favored consideration on your application going into a state school? What's in it for them aside from the good feeling you would have? Well, that would be big to get tuition. Yeah.
lessened, you know, that's, I think that's a huge carrot for people who have student loans. Or just a higher consideration, a different list that you're on when in consideration for a state school. Because I know how, you know, my 18 year old, that's so much anxiety for kids, like getting into a school, have I done enough extracurricular, blah, blah, blah. Like if that was something that like, oh, you go right to the top of the list in consideration for these UC schools,
that would be big and it wouldn't cost, I don't think it would cost the state anything. - We tried to do something like that. I was chairing a task force for the governor here on Alzheimer's and that was one of our recommendations.
So it hadn't happened yet. But I think there are ideas like that around, which I think are great. And I think that young people would really like that. Service Corps, you know, there are some programs around like that. But I think the question always is, you know, they don't pay well.
obviously. But you're at an age where you don't need the money just yet. Like you might still potentially be under your parents' wing, you know, just right after high school and before college. And maybe the parents would be okay giving one more year of support while you're off helping the country or the state.
Yeah. Well, yeah, a lot of people do need the money. So it's like looking at so that it's a diverse workforce, that it's, you know, different states have different needs, right? Different states have different needs. And so I think it's a great idea. There are a lot of people who've been pushing it for a long time. It has not happened yet.
I thought it was an intriguing op-ed that these guys wrote originally for the Washington Post last week, and then we repurposed it in the Sunday paper on Sunday. I want that newsletter. Big citizenship. I like that idea, big citizenship. You know, it's funny. I mean, we sit here, we talk about it, and it's, you know, we're in a unique position. We get to sort of talk about these ideas, et cetera, and they make a lot of sense. And how funny or how...
unfortunate it is. As you say, there's met resistance. It never happened. It wouldn't go through. And it really does make you wonder, why? Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Why don't people want to do it? Why don't people... Why isn't there a sense that we should, you know, do something for the greater good? And people go, well...
We don't want to. Yeah, or a couple of people don't want to. Well, there's a lot going on, actually. You know, like I look at Special Olympics all the time, which is one of the largest volunteer programs in the world, right? And people are, you know, from both parties, from all different age groups, go out and volunteer. And I think because they're asked. They're asked, like, this program won't,
succeed in your neighborhood or your community or your state unless you volunteer. And I think sometimes people, it depends who's doing the asking, right? You even see that in our own homes, you know, sometimes like who's asking you to clear the table? Who's asking you to do the chore? And then what figure is asking you to be of service? And I think we young people aren't volunteering for military corps because sometimes they look and see like
well, how does that person get taken care of when they come back? Who's doing the asking? What is the life like on the other end versus, you know, many years ago, right? So I think it's...
I believe that if the right person raises it up, puts it front and center, makes it inspiring, calls young people up and tells them, we need you in order to rebuild the country, in order to put our values front and center, in order...
That you can have a country that's going to be the country you want to live in with the values you want to live in. So I'm calling everybody up. I mean, I think it's nobody's called people up like that. Right. It's great. One of the one of the pieces of advice I've actually shared with these guys before outside of this podcast is anytime there be an issue, come issue that came up politically or socially or whatever it was.
And I would complain about it to you and you would say, I know, isn't that awful? So what are you doing about it? Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, oh, and it completely disarms people because you're right. It's like to everything you're saying, you have to be the leader of that. Instead of sitting and waiting for somebody to ask you. Well, I think kids would listen to you if you just ask them to serve.
Me? You think they'd listen to me? I think they would. Yeah. So wait. So Maria. I love that. I mean, I think, Jason, you should take that on. I think like my kids, if you ask my kids, they pay attention. They'll be like, did you hear it? God, he asked us to be of service.
I think Will has a better voice. Will makes a lot of money with his voice, a lot of timber to it. I'll set him up with a big phone bank. I think, Jason, we'll send a car to get you out of the house. Will, I think you're uniquely suited for this. You got a whisper booth there. Everything's all ready.
Whisper, babe. So Maria, before we leave you. You're leaving? Yeah. You're already into overtime. I'm going to go tell the leaf blower he can go back, right? Yes. But wait, I have one last thing. One last thing. You've super successful. You've seen it all. You've met everyone. You've had more experiences than anyone I know. What is it there?
What is that you haven't done or want to accomplish that speaks to your values? How about that? Oh, that's a really deep question. Yeah. Wow. Should have gave her that at the beginning and give her a chance to come up with an answer. I don't know if I'm going to tell you the answer. I know the answer, but I...
I'm not going to tell you this. Come on, Maria. No, no, I'm not going to say it. You're not going to tell us what you... I'm going to keep on going right down here. I totally am always thinking of like... You're pointing in the right direction. I'm pointing in the right direction. I'm moving forward. Yes, that's true. You are. And I always tell you, I think like, who do I want at my 70th birthday? Who do I want at my funeral? And I work on those relationships now. I love that those are two different lists. Yeah.
I love it. I love it. And I'm now going to include you to the other boys now at my funeral and my birthday party. I just grew my list. That's right. I'd love to say a few words if that'd be okay. I hope so. I hope you'll bring a poem.
because I've got this book of poetry. So that's mainly when people use poems, right? They stand up at a funeral. They stand up at a wedding. I asked to get the copy of the book and it's not ready yet, but I can't wait to read I Am Maria and the poems. Yes, and then a poem. Do you have a poem in your life that's like important? Nothing. No, Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. No.
Nothing. How about you other guys? No poems, no poetry? I've got to work on that part. Sure. I mean, I could cite like, you know, Rilke or somebody like that. You know what I mean? Jeez. I mean, what are we going to do when poetry is, you know, is useful in times of celebration, in times of heartbreak, you know? So you don't want to answer the one thing that you haven't done that you want to accomplish.
Well, but you made it specifically to her values. Now, you could say something a little bit more trivial, like is there a place you'd like to go or a person you've yet to meet? Yeah, how about that? Oh, yeah, I have a person I'd get to meet. I really want to meet and sit and have a meal with the Pope. Okay.
I really want to meet the Pope. Let me just check. I want to move in with the Pope. I want to hang with the Pope. He's pretty jammed. I'm looking right now. Yeah, he's... I mean, how's your April? How's your April looking? I'll change. I'll even give up my Sunday dinner for the Pope. Let me talk. Okay.
I'll move everything around for the Pope. - Wow. - For Francis, yeah. He's my man. - I feel like you can make that happen. All right, I'm gonna work on that for you. - Will you work on that for me? Just put me in your luggage, take me there to Rome. I think if I could just get in and sit down at the table, you're not allowed, my brother went there, and you're not, if you see him eating there, you're not allowed to go over and talk. And so my brother said, well, you would break that rule, Maria. I said, oh, for sure. - Let me just say this, Maria.
Maria, let me just say this. If anyone can, the Vatican. Okay, so don't worry. You're going to make it happen. Oh, that's funny. The Vatican. There we go. Maria, we love you. I can't wait for your book. I love you, Shawnee. So much. One of the most important people in my life is you as well as these two fellas. So I'm all in one show. It makes me very, very happy. Really nice to meet you. Thank you for having me. Thank you.
Thank you for having me. Thank you, Maria. I want to come over and clear the table. Invite me. I'll be a good guest. Yeah. Okay. You don't have to ask him. He'll just do it. He'll do it? Yeah, yeah. Love it. Good example for my boys. All right, honey. Love you. Okay, bye. Now do I go? Thank you. You slam it. Yeah. Okay. You can slam it shut.
Right? She's awesome. Emotional, emotional surprise. I've met her a couple times with you, but so briefly, and I never really got a sense of like how, I mean, a little bit. She's obviously super smart and stuff, but like she's amazing. Yeah, but, and 10, I mean, there's 10,000 other things that she's started or programs or, I mean, we didn't even get into any of it.
But she's endless. Every single day she wakes up thinking about how she can serve. I know we talked about that before with other people, but how can she... Don't sell yourself short. You told me the other day you started season four of The Mentalist. That's true. You and Scottie. The Mentalist. How do you have that at the ready? The Mentalist.
Anyway, Maria, Maria, Maria. I love, Sean, I love that. I know you've talked so fondly about her and her family and how important they are to you and your life. Yeah. Right? It just like... Because he does not like to cook. That is why. No, but like real... Jen's on Sunday, Maria's on Thursday. Real rocks for you. Like really, really great. Thanks, Eddie.
Like a real steadiness added to your life. She is, yeah. As are you guys, by the way. Oh, thanks. Yeah, but... Yeah, she's done so much for so many groups, hearing her talk and...
It's just incredible. Anyway, thanks for indulging and I'm glad you enjoyed her as much as I did. She seems like she would be absolutely my favorite person in the world. Well, why don't we do... We'll do a din. Yeah. Make it happen. We'll do a din? Yeah, that's short for dinner. Yeah, we'll do a din-dink. You know? This guy's a hip guy. He's got riz. Uh...
Sean, anything in the bi-folder? Oh, there we go. He's got the bi-folder open. Pull up the bi-folder. Put on your bifocals and anything there. You know, we watched... Oh, yeah, go ahead. Here we go. This is a made-up story. Oh, you know, we watched a show last night. Oh, I'm so excited. I am so excited.
I used this one before. You know, I like to, if I'm driving around and I'm hungry and it's a Sunday and Maria's having family dinner, I like to stop by for a quick... Bye. All right, bye. Quick bye. And bye, everybody. Bye. Fuck, we are scraping the bottom. Smart. Nice. Smart.
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