"Pete Buttigieg"
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Sean, good morning. Good morning. It's a weekend morning. I know it doesn't line up with the episode people are about to listen to, but it's an actual Saturday when we're recording this. That's correct. Be honest. You're playing for the day. Go be fucking ruthless with yourself right now. Totally. I'm going to have, I'm not even kidding, I'm going to have a chili cornbread casserole right when this is over. No, no, no, but tell us something unusual that you're going to do.

Welcome to SmartLess. SmartLess. SmartLess. SmartLess.

Oh, Sean, get a good stretch in you. You look like a little kitty cat stretching. Wait, listen. I have a story to share with you all. Here we come. Is that why you had to stretch for your story? Yeah. Is that what just happened? Yeah. Did you write notes or are you just going to kind of free it? Oh, no. This is serious. Look at the look on his face. I know because I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but two days ago, I'm in my car and

I'm on Wilshire Boulevard in between appointments because if I drive home, by the time I get there, I have to come back. So I'm driving around like 20 minutes trying to kill time. So I'm driving. You don't pull in somewhere. Yeah, you're just burning fossil fuel because... Well, it's an electric car.

All right. It's an electric car. It doesn't charge for free, you know. Go ahead. Okay, so. It does mitigate it somewhat. Okay, go ahead. So I'm in the center lane on Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills, and the car goes dead. And I have plenty of battery, and I'm freaking out. And the display on my dashboard says. Neutral. Is your key in the car. That's what it said. And you're wondering what neutral means?

Stupid ass. I was like... It says, you're going nowhere. First of all, by the way, first of all, has your car ever broken down in the middle lane and like a busy... Like the stress is crazy. Yeah. Did you get out and try to start pushing your car? No, but I freaked out. I put on my hazards. Everybody's driving by like, fuck you. And I'm like, what am I supposed to do? My car died. Then it says the key, the thing on the display on the...

Sure. He said, is your key in the car? If so, hold it up to the designated area. And I'm like, what's the designated area? Anyway, I was freaked out. So I take the, this is the longest story in the world. I took the manual out and while people are driving past me like crazy. Oh, so you weren't alone. Manual was with you when he was in the back seat. Yeah.

But you took him out, right? So he was... It must have been in the trunk. So you let Manuel out. Yeah, and I asked him what was wrong. So you're reading the manual and meanwhile you're screaming... Guys, stop honking. I know. It's not my fault. Have you ever had that happen? Like, I was so stressed out. And so I have my head down. I'm looking at the manual looking for like keys or whatever, like key fob. And...

And they say, anyway, so I panic and I call Scotty. Scotty's like, what do you want me to do about it? And so I- With a tone. I'm freaking out. And I find a YouTube video of a guy who went through the same thing in the same kind of car. And he's like, you got to put it in the cup holder. I'm like, the cup holder? So I put the key in the cup holder and I hit it again. Thank God it started. But that was like 20 minutes sitting there with my hazards on. And then I finally, because I'll be damned if I didn't make my massage. Yeah.

So I got to my massage. That was your appointment. That was my appointment because I hadn't had one in like a year. Sounds like a real busy day. Middle of the day massage? Yeah, yeah, middle of the day. Middle of a work day massage? Okay. So, and you give me shit, JB, for not going to the office. This guy's doing middle of the week day massages. Wait, this is the end of the story. You're fucking living like a fucking Saudi prince over here. Look at this guy.

So wait, the end of the story is I get out of my massage. I just passed the front desk because I already paid. And she goes, oh, wait. And you could tell she was too embarrassed to say the word husband. So she goes, your friend dropped off a spare key. So I used my spare key. He dropped, Scotty drove all the way to the thing to drop off a spare key that I didn't even know I had. While you were getting a massage. Your roommate came by.

Your roommate. I know that you're a confirmed bachelor and your roommate came. The guy in the other room. Yeah. Oh, poor Sean. Oh, God. That was the worst. Has anything ever happened like that? I mean... Well, I have had that issue. Yeah, it's called a car breakdown. No, but I have had that thing with the key where it has to be. It's not being recognized. But usually I just...

Usually just move it around to different points of the car. They don't tell you that? Like how is that supposed to know you? Yeah, there's a picture usually. It shows like a little picture somewhere on your screen where to stick it.

But anyway. Anyway, yeah. Great story. Did anybody stop for a selfie with you? No, I had my head down so far looking at the book. Did you think that maybe you should pop the trunk or the hood so that no one rear ends you or honks at you? Well, I had my hazards on. It doesn't work. You have one of those little triangular orange reflective things in the trunk of your car? Like a cone? Do you snap a flare off? Yeah.

Whereabouts at Wilshire? But by the way, I was in the thick of it. I was like Wilshire, like just off of Santa Monica and like...

you know, Rodale, like in the middle of that section. Oh, in Beverly Hills? Yes, in the middle lane. Lucky you didn't get mugged. So your fancy car breaks down on Wilshire and Beverly Hills on your way to your massage. You do well in the war theater. Hey, listen, man, and the price of eggs must be crushing you right now. You're just going nuts over this, right?

Guys, it's a great segue. I've got a guest that can answer a lot of high-stress driving questions for you. Oh, good. Today, we've got a guest that's going to prove to you, too,

that hard work can bring great results. Fellas, if you just show a little discipline and focus, read a book for God's sakes and apply yourself, you can reach great heights, Will, Sean. Okay, I'm working on it. This guy was named valedictorian in high school, voted most likely to become president. He went on to graduate college magna cum laude, and that would be from BTW Harvard.

Then he was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to study at Oxford. So he did that. Graduated first class honors in philosophy, politics, economics. And he came home and split his time between serving in Afghanistan and mayor at 29. Oh, I know this fella. He's since served four years as United States Secretary of Transportation and hopefully his high school class is right. And he'll be our president one of these days. That's right, Mr. Pete. It's an honor to have on SmartList, Mr. Pete Buttigieg. Wow.

Hi there. Now, so can you explain to Sean, because in Afghanistan, you were driving, were you not? Yeah, yeah, it was a big part of my job over there. High stress driving. And so what would you suggest to him there on Wilshire and Rodeo? Should he pop his trunk so he doesn't get rear-ended?

Well, in Afghanistan, you definitely would not want to open any part of the vehicle. This happened one time. Sure. Pop a flare, perhaps. Actually knocked a mirror off the first time I was driving. Come on, Pete. Yeah, got in big trouble because you couldn't just stop and pick it back up. Yeah.

Right. And, you know, Wilshire Boulevard, much like Central Cobble, I imagine, is a place where you should watch your back. Be careful. But, JB, but as Secretary of Transportation, you might have some advice for people like Sean, who's portions break down. It's amazing how many people just don't want to stop and help. No.

No. Exactly. Maybe they got to look at you. Now, do the up-armored Humvees even have hazard lights? I didn't even get a Humvee. It was a slightly up-armored Toyota truck. It was a Highlander, I think. That's kind of cool. Yeah. Well, that's all they drive there, right? Pickups. Yeah. They love their Hiluxes. That's kind of the go-to vehicle out there. At least it was in my day. Hilux. I don't know that. I'm not familiar with that term, Hilux. Yeah. I think they only sell those abroad, but it's really big over there. Uh-huh.

I mean, there's nothing like seeing a pickup, a Hilux storming your way with like 12 guys in the back and a 50 Cal mounted roughly on the, you know, dangerous. It's dangerous. Yeah, it gets your blood flowing. Sure, sure. And now, and so you were driving top speed, looking out for the road mines on your way to reconnaissance and things like that. And that sounds very stressful.

- Yeah, yeah, it was pretty stressful. But the folks I was with were really good at their jobs. I was well-trained in my job. So we called it military Uber, basically making sure people and gear could get to where they need to go. - Would you ask your passengers to rate you favorably?

You know, I should have. Yeah. So, you know, I'm getting reacquainted with Uber now because I, you know, for the last four years, I would still drive like if I was dropping off the kids at school or something like that. But the most time, most of the time I was, you know, being,

That's how it works when you're in the cabinet. So I had to get Uber back on my phone and get used to all that. It's changed a little bit since I remember. You've got more options now. Yeah, but nobody can accuse you of being highfalutin. We mentioned your service in the armed forces. Like you...

What an incredible career you've had. I'm really impressed by it. It's unbelievable. You went to Harvard. You're a Rhodes Scholar. Are you impressed by it, Will? I mean, Jesus, did you hear the movement? Of course you are. He was an insult that you would never get assigned to. He was an intelligence officer. Yeah, what does that mean? He's going to tell us right now. Well, I could tell you, but then I'd have to, you know. Yeah, then you'd have to. Oh, please kill him. Wait, so...

On the podcast, the ratings would be phenomenal. But what an unbelievable... When you were sort of 15 in high school, you couldn't have imagined the sort of the...

the trajectory your life was going to take. Could you? No, there's no way. When I was 15 in high school, all I wanted to be was an airline pilot, which I still think is an amazing job. I respect pilots so much. By the way, it's a great job. It pays very well and it's very in demand. But I thought that was the coolest thing ever. My dad would go on business trips sometimes. Mine too. And they...

They would have on the wide-body planes that would fly over the Atlantic, they used to have this

where they'd pin up a carbon copy of the flight plan. I don't know if you ever saw this. It'd be about the size of a small poster, and they would stick it to the wall in the back of the plane. I think this was before they had monitors where you could see where the plane was, so it would show the track of where the plane was supposed to go in this kind of carbon line on this map. Anyway, if you asked, they would give it to you. And so he would bring them back –

for me when he came back from a trip and I just wallpapered my room with them. I was, I was so, I knew the names of the pilots that had signed, uh, uh, signed the things like, you know, they were like celebrities to me. And did you ever consider getting your pilot's license and, and, and joining the air force instead of the Navy? So I discovered some things about my eyesight that meant that I was not going to be a candidate for, uh, for military aviation. Um, uh,

Colorblind, right? Oh, that was the reason. Not colorblind. Hang on a second. Sorry, Mayor Pete. So, Sean, your kind of fuzzy vision derailed a long career as an aviator? No, I thought you were going to your colorblind because you can't be a pilot if you're colorblind, and I'm colorblind.

Yeah, no, it just had to do with how nearsighted. I think now it's not such a big deal, but I was so nearsighted and astigmatism, at least in the 90s, you couldn't look forward to a career. No, colorblind, that's a thing. Oh, you've got headphones? I've got headphones too. That's so crazy. That's a whole subplot. And what's the Little Miss Sunshine, right? There's a whole subplot. Yes, very good, very good. So then, all right, so then your vision kept you, all right, so then it was, but what about, now there wasn't, both of your parents are,

are academics and educators, but there's no, is there military in your family at all? What got you to lean that way? Yeah, there is. Yeah, not at my, not my parents' generation, but before that, a lot in my family were career military. Matter of fact, when I was growing up, we had a portrait painting in the living room.

of this army officer. And we were, you know, I mean, my parents were professors, middle-class neighborhood in Indiana. We were not like a portraits of ancestors on the wall kind of family. So it always stood out to me and I asked about it. And the story, it turns out, it was my great uncle,

who died in a plane crash in 1941, but he was an Army Air Corps officer, which was the predecessor to the Air Force. And the reason that painting exists is because his brother, my grandfather, was also an officer. He was a doctor, actually. He was an Army doc.

And at a, I guess there was a prisoner of war camp in, I think, New Mexico, where World War II prisoners would interact with American officers. And he got to know an officer who could paint and asked him if he would paint from a photograph this portrait of his brother who had been killed.

And he did. Wow. And so I grew up with this. He's kind of sitting in a classic World War II style army uniform, kind of staring right at you. And I felt like it was kind of my family's version of the Uncle Sam poster, you know, saying, why not you? Why aren't you serving your country? I want you. And I think that was in the back of my mind. It was a big part of why I wanted to serve. And then like a lot of people my age, 9-11 had a big impact on me.

Yeah. And then when I got to Oxford, often some of the Rhodes Scholars are graduates of the military academies, West Point Naval Academy. And my class had quite a few, and I respected those guys so much. It was one more reason I wanted to serve. And so I entered the reserve once I got back and kind of started my professional life. I joined a reserve unit, and it was one weekend a month, two weeks a year. But then part of the deal is if they call you up, you go.

and I got called up while I was mayor, actually. So I put my mayoral service on hold. I took a leave. I had a deputy mayor who stepped in for me for the time I had to go and went off to Afghanistan. Is there any part of it you missed? Yeah, actually, yeah. I mean, the people, most of all. Of course. The people I served with, and they were totally different from each other and from me in every way, different politics, different upbringings, but...

We all just really trusted each other and looked out for each other. And it's something – yeah, I wish – obviously the military is not for everybody, but I think a moment like this is one where it would be great if more people had some experience of doing something hard together with other people that just –

builds that kind of trust that we don't seem to have enough of right now. Can you talk about that moment, to the extent you're comfortable, when you got that call that you actually were going to go overseas and serve? Because I'd imagine a lot of folks join the service, and it's not during wartime, and they never get in combat. And you were going over, like, is...

That's got to be somewhat frightening. Can you talk about that? Yeah, your first day. Or that you're going to go. Time to pack your bags. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you take a deep breath and it's sobering. But it's also a big part of why you serve. I mean, of course, if you're...

agreeing to put on the uniform, you're putting your right hand up and taking that oath. That means you're, the whole idea is you're going to be there if your country needs you. And, uh, you know, I had, I had one tour in Afghanistan. I spent a little time also in Afghanistan and Iraq as a, as a civilian economic advisor. But, you know, I was with people who served four, five, six tours. It was incredible how many, you know, my generation, how many tours some of them did. And, uh,

So I was really humbled to see how much other people had served. And that's one of the other things that made me want to do it in the first place was seeing a lot of other people in my generation rogering up to go and thinking at a certain point, like, when's it my turn? But does fear enter into it? Oh, of course. Yeah. The first night I was there, they train you for what a rocket alarm is.

Sounds like, obviously, you know, what to do if you hear the alarm that says incoming. I started out at Bagram, uh, Bagram airfield. And then later on was, was reassigned to cobble the capital. Um,

But that first night at Bagram, there was a rocket attack. And I just remember just my blood running cold when I heard that sound. It's the same sound, by the way, as I think it's called. There's an iPhone alarm that's the exact same. Oh, the ah, ah, ah, that kind of thing? Yeah. It would be a great idea to just never use that. Yeah. Yeah, no kidding. On your iPhone. Yeah.

At least if you're around somebody who might have memories around that. But yeah, my first day there was a rocket attack. My last day there was a rocket attack. Wow. It's probably a different sound than when my massage is over. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's more of a gong. Yeah. And it's probably more fear than like JB when you got the call that you were going to be in Heart to Heart, Secrets of the Heart, the TV movie. Like that must have been. When I'm asked to force my call tomorrow, you know, it's going to be, yeah, yeah.

But, well, listen, Mayor Pete, thank you for your service. Yes, indeed. It's really, really impressive. Now, with your father being a professor of literature, did that – I mean, were you – stupid question, but, I mean, I'm just – I love listening to you talk.

By the way, I do too. Right. And I love, anytime you're on any news channel, anything, anywhere, I'm like, you're the smartest person in the room. I love watching you debate. I love watching you debate. Yeah. Because you make debating not seem like debating. You just boil it down and you take the contention out, which is great. Well, a lot of debating now isn't actually debating. It's just like a media opportunity, right? It's just people kind of

uh, saying they're like canned things. But your ability to shape, um, a thought, uh, your opinion, um, to just to make it kind of tangible for folks. Uh, I appreciate cause I mean, not smart. Um, but I love that you, I love that you spend time on, on Fox too. And, um, you know, that, that,

that there's an ability to, you know, cause we all need to kind of stop talking across one another and talk together. And so it's, I love that, that you spend some time over there. Is there a reason why, why more Democrats don't,

aren't talking over there? Are they not invited or do they not want to go? I just wish they'd do it more. Yeah, I think- I'm both, yeah. Look, there's a lot of reasons to hesitate, right? If you're going into a place that you know is not ideologically friendly or not aligned with you, like there's reasons to think twice about it. And I think a lot of people in my party do, but my take on it is you can't,

You can't blame somebody for not embracing your message if they've literally never heard it. And a lot of people will never hear what we have to say if we're only talking to people who are friendly to us. And it's not just TV. I mean, it's also, you know, I'm doing more podcasts, more digital stuff, just because I know that's where a lot of people get their information. I've been teaching one day a week at the Institute of Politics in Chicago, at the University of Chicago there. And one of the things I do is I'm always asking my students, whenever we sit down, a lot of times I'll do a show of hands, you know, where do you get your news?

The number of students who raised their hands when I asked how many of them get their news from television was zero. Literally zero. They might see a clip from TV if it goes into their TikTok feeds or Instagram or something like that. But I don't think of myself as that much older than them, but I grew up in a world where you –

watched a TV story about some controversy. You heard the conservative opinion, you heard the liberal opinion, and maybe hearing the other side made you feel the way you feel even more strongly, or maybe it made you change your mind a little bit or ask another question. But like the point is you'd think about it. You'd like stop and think about it. And it's very hard for that to happen now the way our media works. So I'm trying to, I'm trying to cut through some of those categories. Well, glad you're doing it. We'll be right back.

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I think one of the tricks that they've done on both sides, and this is what has sort of made me, I think a lot of other people check out from the entire process is,

is that the truth is we all want a better system. We all want a better country. We all want a better America. Everybody wants everybody to be better fed, et cetera, just whatever the issue is. Everybody wants that. And somehow we've been convinced by a few people that we are at odds with each other. And I think that everybody is actually a lot more aligned than we think. I truly believe that.

Yeah. Look, obviously there's some serious disagreements and differences in values, but there's also, yeah, you look at a lot of the biggest issues, there's like 60, 70% of Americans who agree on what to do about it. And if you look at the overlap, you know, that might not be the same 70% from this issue to that issue, but like,

the big things that people want out of everyday life and the big things people want their government to do for them to have stuff work, you know, clean, safe drinking water and clean air and roads that don't have a hole in them and transit that gets you to where you need to go and an economy where you can afford stuff and enough housing. Like these are things that everybody wants. And we've gotten into this mode where politics is treated like basically like a wrestling death match.

And it does, I think, turn a lot of people off. But my experience, and maybe it's because I came up locally, and local politics, by the way, as everybody knows, can be very, very rough and tumble. But there's this sense of,

You know, in a community, you're a little more – it's a little clearer to everybody that everybody wants the community to do well. Well, and you also have to answer to each other face-to-face, day-to-day. Yeah. Yeah, you see each other at the grocery, walking the dog. Right, right. And, yeah, I think we really miss that at the national level. You know, Washington has its version of that because you, like, run into other, you know, political figures, but it's not –

It's not like being part of the same thing. Yeah, but it seems to me, and again, forgive me for sort of boiling it down like this, but it does seem to me that Washington politics are a lot like the WWE. It's like everybody goes and puts on their game persona and then back in the locker room, they're like, hey, that was a pretty good one. Yeah, that was a good one by you too. They all know, everybody knows each other. Do you know what I mean?

I think it was like that. I think that's changed a lot in the last few years. If you talk to people who just some of the things that are really dark, January 6th, that kind of stuff where people were really fearing for their lives, I think has shifted that a little bit. But yeah, you could definitely feel, you know, we spent almost four years. I wasn't living in Washington the whole time, but most of the time I was serving, we lived there.

- Oh, there's a headline. Buttigieg admits he wasn't living in Washington the whole time. Here we go. - No, you know what it was? I was traveling so much. Like I was traveling a day or two a week minimum for work. And then, you know, 'cause my job was to partly to go around the country and look at the projects we were working on. You know, you're in charge of transportation, obviously. You're traveling a lot. I went to every single state at least once. - Wow. - And then, you know, there were times when I was traveling a lot for campaign stuff too.

And began to realize that it was, for our family, it was more economical for me to stay in a hotel the days I was in Washington than to pay rent there and mortgage here in Michigan where we live. Right. And it was important to us for the kids to be around their grandparents. So my grandmother, or my mother, their grandmother lives here in Traverse City now. We moved here largely because Chaston's parents, my husband's parents are here.

That's where he grew up. And it's made all the difference in the world to have the kids close to their parents. Yeah, yeah. Well, what made you think that you could become a mayor and get into politics at that early age? You became mayor at 29, I think? Yeah, yeah. So coming back from Afghanistan, well, no, this is before you went to Afghanistan, but coming back from Oxford, yeah.

you'd go, you worked for the consultant firm. At what point did you think, I might want to go into politics? Yeah, so I finished up at Oxford, got a job in Chicago at a consulting firm. McKinsey, is that right? Is that where you were? Yeah, McKinsey, yeah. Yeah.

And I learned a lot there, but I also figured out pretty quickly that client service wasn't for me. I just didn't care enough about it. I wanted to work on something I cared about, not just because I was being paid to care about, but because it was really important to me. And meanwhile, a lot of people know that South Bend, Indiana is where Notre Dame is.

Yeah. What a lot of people don't realize is Notre Dame's actually across the street from South Bend, Indiana. It's not a college town that way. And the city was completely built around the auto industry. It was the company town for Studebaker. Studebaker was headquartered in South Bend, Indiana. Wow, wow. And even though that company went out of business in the 60s, when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s, the city was still trying to recover from that. Lost a bunch of its population, vacant abandoned houses, collapsing factories everywhere. And so...

I grew up kind of inhaling this idea that success meant getting out. I mean, a lot of kids in, you know, the so-called Rust Belt and in rural America grow up with this message, right? If you want to make something of yourself, get out. Right. Which is pretty much what I did. I went to the East Coast, then I got even further away, going to the UK to study when I got the scholarship.

And, but then I started to realize the further away I got, the more I realized that I was, I was actually from somewhere and started to feel this like almost militant pride in, in, in where I was from and what it could be. And I found that a lot of people I grew up with felt the same way that like our city could be more than it was and could have a different future. And, you know,

Right around the time I got in the race for mayor, there was a national write-up of our city that called it one of America's 10 dying cities. And we hated that so much and didn't believe it. And so, you know, I found that there were enough people who felt the same way that we could build this campaign. By the way, it was super bipartisan. You know, I ran as a Democrat, but we had a lot of independents, Republicans who supported it.

And then they put me in charge of the city. And then it was, you know, put up or shut up. Was that as frightening as getting the call up to go overseas? I mean, you know, did you get all that responsibility? You know, I took office on New Year's Day and it was snowing. And one thing I knew a lot about was... You're hungover. Yeah.

You know, one thing you definitely need to be on top of as a mayor is snow plowing. Sure. Maybe not as much an issue, obviously, where you are. But...

You know, right in the lake effect zone, a lot of snow. And it's kind of the test of the classic test of a mayor. So, you know, right away there's this trial by fire, just making sure that we were okay dealing with this snow. And yeah, it's everything from, you know, I worked on everything from, you know, police and fire to streets and, you know, to the zoo. Like we were in charge of the zoo. Anything surprising about a mayor job that would...

that would surprise people, something you didn't expect? I was surprised to be in charge of the zoo. It just wasn't something I thought about when I was campaigning. I didn't know I'd be dealing with golf courses as much. We had city golf courses that I was managing, and we didn't, like, I don't even golf. And then things that, like, you hear about, but I didn't really think much of it until I did it. Like, you get to marry people, right? You are... Oh, wow. Oh, yeah, of course. Justice of the...

I remember one time I came in, I was really early. I was the first person in. So my staff weren't around. And I stepped out of the elevator in the hallway that leads to the mayor's office. And this other couple, these two other people stepped out of another elevator and said, oh, mayor, we were hoping we'd find you here. Like just who we were hoping to see. And I thought, okay, I hope I'm ready for whatever they're going to ask because I'm all alone up here. And then they explained she was super pregnant.

And they said, well, we're on our way to the hospital. We're going to have a C-section. And by the time we tell her parents that they're grandparents, I want to make sure we're actually married. So could you marry us? Wow. And it's time sensitive. Like now? Yeah, yeah, like right now. So, you know, I don't know everything about their story. And you're like, yeah, I could, but I've assigned all marriages to the zoo. So we got to get to the zoo real quick.

So we did it. Like I went through my drawers and I found like somewhere in there from the last time I did this, I had, you know, a copy of the protocol, the things I was supposed to say. And my staff trickled in while we were putting that together. And I found a

piece of pipe cleaner we were able to use just as a makeshift ring. And they ran down and got the certificates and I signed off. And yeah, by the time they, you know, got them married and squared away and then they went off. I mean, was she in labor while you were giving, I'm like, was she like breathing, whatever that is? Like, was she about to go into it? I'm not sure I would have been able to handle that. Yeah, yeah. That would have been crazy. Now, how does that differ from your first day as transportation secretary? What was that like? Was it

What is day one like when you're handling that large a department? Well, it's, I mean, it's a huge leap. So as mayor at about a thousand employees and about a $300 million organization, so not small, but, but as secretary of transportation, you've got 55,000 employees and,

You oversee everything from commercial space travel safety to the Great Lawrence Seaway to the Maritime Administration to just so many things. And the budget is the size of a mid-sized country. It's about $150 billion, or at least it was once we got the infrastructure package through. Wow, that's crazy. So it's pretty daunting. The really daunting thing was it was deep COVID and I couldn't be in a room with most of my staff. And then...

you know, that was the time when the protocols were extremely intense. I got exposed to, I was in a room with somebody who had had COVID and it was decided that I needed to be confined for 14 days just in case.

So the first time I participated in an Oval Office meeting, they wheeled a television into the Oval Office so that I could participate by Zoom from this apartment where I was locked up. Oh, my. Wow. And join remotely. So it was a very strange introduction to the job. It was a very strange introduction to my own team. But, you know, gradually we built a really good chemistry with a really good team full of public servants. But the irony that you're now the Secretary of Transportation, but you can't go anywhere. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And Pete, instead of asking you what we would never know, like what we could never guess about the transportation, like safety, like I don't think I could handle that answer. I don't want to know what I don't know. So I'll just say, what is the most interesting thing that you learned that you could share with us about how it all works? Because it is kind of fascinating. Um,

- Yeah, I don't wanna know about safety stuff. I think I wouldn't be able to sleep. - Oh, the safety stuff should be reassuring though. - Yeah, all right. - I mean, one thing that people don't think about is how incredible of a civilizational achievement

our overall aviation safety record as a country is. There was a terrible crash this year. There was 15 years with no fatal crashes. - Yeah. - Wow. - And that doesn't just happen, right? I mean, think about what that takes. - Right. - I wish we had that on auto safety. We don't. Like on the ground, like in cars, we lose more than 100 people a day in those countries. It's one of the big things I worked on. We finally got the numbers starting to go down again

on my are those numbers are a lot of those numbers still uh uh uh the result of people being intoxicated is that uh that's still there was it a lot of texting both yeah distracted driving is a huge deal i mean i can't distract you i cannot emphasize enough how important it is to just put down the phone just no it can it can it can wait uh but but anyway the the work that goes into making sure people are safe uh and stuff i never thought about uh in shipping like

making sure that things that go into packages are safe. You know, we learned things like there was a cottage industry of custom kind of homemade nail polish, which sometimes is using compounds that were unsafe to put in the mail. Again, not on my bingo card for things I would be dealing with, but it was a thing. Yeah, because can't you mail anything? I mean...

How do they find out? Not hazardous materials. Asking for a friend. But that's the thing. People don't know. If you're on Etsy selling custom nail polish, you don't think of yourself as a person who ships hazardous materials. You think of yourself as a small business. And so trying to do that without over-regulating everybody to where nobody can do anything. Jason, quick, do you know what Etsy is? She's Sean's cat. Thank you so much. All right. Sean's cat. My cat. Come here, Etsy.

So, Sean, did you get enough of an answer there for a friend about how to properly mule something? What to look for, how they can... No, I always thought that because, you know, like gummies are legal, but you can't mail them. Here we go. Is that right? You know what else I learned a lot about? Fish. Fish. I wound up having to learn more than I thought I would about fish. Why, why?

because a lot of fish famously swim upstream. And if a road is built through a stream or a river and you don't put the right kind of culvert so the water can go under it, it blocks the fish passage.

And it turns out a lot of roads were built in the 60s and 70s. The culverts either weren't built the right way or they failed over the years. And it was screwing up fisheries, especially in the Pacific Northwest, but this is happening all over the country. And so we started working on fixing it with some of the funds in the infrastructure package. Huge deal for the Pacific Northwest, especially for tribal communities, but also just in general. So I wound up having, you know, I was...

in PowerPoint briefings on the difference between anadromous fish, which swim upstream, and catadromous, I think is the word for the ones that fish go downstream. And it's not just salmon. I mean, there's...

There's a lot of fish related things that turn out to be at stake. But Pete, you know, like you look at, I've never been to Japan, but everybody I know that's been to Japan is like, every street is flawless. Everything is clean. Every like road and it's- Sean, you would love Japan for real. I know, I really want to go. But you go, God, there's hunt, you just said the budget. Like, how is it? And I can only speak to Los Angeles. Every road I drive on has massive potholes all the time. Like, what's going on?

Yeah, so some of it is you get what you pay for, and that's a country that just really invests in its transportation. But they also have a culture of taking care of things that I think we could learn from. I went there because they hosted the G7, all the transport ministers from the G7 countries get together, and it was their turn to host. Yeah.

And, but this, this, this great meeting and, but yes, it's kind of saw that up close, got to ride the bullet train and see the fronts of the bullet train, which is an incredible experience. And, but there's a culture like it's, like you don't eat while you're walking in Japan.

A couple of us made this mistake and learned very quickly you're not supposed to do that. Like you don't just walk down the street with an ice cream cone or a sandwich. Really? Because why? Which is, it's just, you're supposed to stop and eat at a table. And then they give you, if you get something to go, they give you a little bag to put your trash in that you take with you.

Wow. It's incredible. Like you're supposed to look after your own trash. So it's just this like culture of cleanliness and taking care of things. Well, first of all, I think that it might go beyond, I don't want to go too deep on this, but as a Canadian, it goes beyond the little bit, just a culture of cleanliness. And it is a culture of,

there is a thing that is lacking this idea that we have to lift each other up and be responsible to the greater good. I once said to my dad, and I don't know if I've shared this on the show before, I said, why didn't you move to the States? When I was younger, I said...

He was a lawyer for many years and he went into business. I said, you could have made way more money. He said, because I have an obligation to the system that brought me up. And he came from nothing. And I don't think that that exists as much in this country. There's much more of a fuck you, I'm getting mine. Which, fine, you know, it is the land of opportunity. But there is, to answer Sean, your question, I think that there is a little bit of that that kind of bleeds into everything. And you look at...

You've seen those videos, Pete, I'm sure, of when they decide to rebuild a bridge, a small bridge in the Netherlands on a highway. It's incredible. And they do it in 48 hours because they don't want to disrupt the whole system. So everybody, they prep, prep, prep, prep, prep. They shut it down and they quite literally build the bridge in 48 hours. That's all hands on deck. Amazing. No, it's incredible. We worked on ways to emulate that. But I think...

I have to agree with you, but I think there's a deeply American tradition around that too. It's always kind of in a bit of a push-pull with the individualistic tradition. But a lot of the great infrastructure we count on, the aviation system, the highways,

you know, are built on that spirit. And so is the idea of preparing, you know, it was Lincoln who said, uh, give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening my ax. And I think about that a lot because if we apply that to infrastructure, we'd be better off. Hey, I got to ask, speaking of, speaking of fathers, um, uh, there's something I've always wanted Jason to ask you about, which is that I've once read, um, um,

No, I once read that you are maybe the most prominent Maltese American figure in Hollywood. And I wanted to know, that's the country my dad immigrated from. Have you ever been there? Do you have a connection to Maltese culture? I went there when I was a little kid.

Yeah, actually, it's my mother's mother that was from Malta. Okay. And that's where she met her husband, my grandfather, because he was in the British Air Force. Classic, yeah, classic thing that happened a lot in that generation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What an interesting little island out there, incredibly strategic and rich in history and

And a great filming location, right? The Great Popeye was shot there. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I was there, I was with a friend and we stumbled onto the set of World War Z. Oh, wow. Because, you know, it's this tiny Mediterranean country, which means it can be made to look like lots of places, especially lots of places in the Middle East or North Africa. I think they used it for Gladiator. But yeah,

they just changed the signs and they could make, like, I think a lot of the scenes in Munich, whether it was in Lebanon or Greece or Israel, Palestine, like a lot of that was shot in Malta. But yeah, World War Z was going on. I didn't know what that was, but I was walking with a friend and we just suddenly like the signs on the, like businesses switched to Hebrew and there was this overturned tank scene

And we had maybe like wandered past a stanchion and didn't notice 'cause they were taking a break. And then this bus pulled up and a bunch of zombies got out. And it's really unnerving. And you looked at your drink.

You know what was really unnerving was not to see zombies, but to see zombies acting not like zombies, right? Right. I think they were Maltese extras. They were waiting for, you know, for their instructions. Yeah, there's like a zombie smoking a cigarette. There's like a zombie, like, checking his phone. There's a zombie with a bottle of water. That was almost more unsettling than seeing a bunch of pure zombies. Then you saw Brad Pitt walk by and you just passed out completely. Yeah, he sadly was not present. Have you been there recently? No.

It's been a few years, but I'm hoping soon to be able to take our kids there because I want to introduce them to, I want them to know like the one place in the world where their last name is a common name. I want them to like, you know, meet their cousins. Is that true? Is that a, is that a, is that a, yeah, it's like Smith over there. I mean, you, there was a statue to Anton Buttigieg, who was the president of Malta and a great poet. And like, we're not even related. Yeah.

Wow. That's wild. He was like neighbors with my great-grandparents or something like that. But it's incredible. It's a fascinating place. It's beautiful and interesting. How old are your kids, by the way, now? They're three. They're turning four this summer. That's great. That's so cool. Boy and a girl, twins. Fun age. That's great. And we will be right back.

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Hey, I want to get back to infrastructure for one second. You guys got that huge bill passed and got a lot of great stuff started. I'm assuming a lot of that stuff is still happening and marching forward. And if the answer to that is yes, are there –

Is there anything you can talk about that maybe we might not know about that you're super excited about that is still a couple of years away from being completed? Because a lot of these things are obviously long-term builds. But like you said, like Bullet Train in Tokyo, stuff like that. What's coming down the drain?

coming down the road. Yeah, there's a bunch. So we funded about 70,000 projects. Roughly 20,000 of them are done. But yeah, most of them, you know, by their very nature, they take years and years to do. Matter of fact, I drive past one almost every day here in Michigan that I remember signing off on that's now, actually now everybody's grumbling about it because it's, you know, it's in construction and blocking traffic. But eventually it's going to be great. Yeah.

redesigning the road there to make it safer. But yeah, there is a high-speed, there are a few high-speed rail things going on. One I'm excited about is a high-speed rail connection from Las Vegas to Southern California. And it was a public-private partnership. We funded it with federal dollars, but there's also a private company bringing a lot of the dollars to the table and partnering with the state of Nevada to get it done. That, if they hit their marks, it'll be going before the end of this decade. And we're just excited.

just zip down. A lot of it is actually straight down the median of I-15. That's how they solved the... Really? Yeah, because one of the hardest things when you're building a railroad is to put together the right-of-way, right, to get the land lined up. Yeah, of course. And so there was a big portion where they were able to take advantage of the right-of-way that's already there on the interstate. So that's one that I'm excited about. How long would that take, do you think, to get from Vegas to L.A.?

I know it's dramatically quicker than driving. I think I got to look it up, but definitely under the, because it's hours and hours. I like the idea of the train of like the one, like going to Vegas, that train is filled with happy, excited people and coming back, it's all somber and hungover. Yeah, you'd rather walk home. Everybody's broke. Totally. No, what excites me is the idea that like, instead of going to Japan and coming back and talking about how amazing it would be,

you know, to have something like that. Like we'd see that somewhere in the U.S. Because I think if people experience that somewhere in the U.S., then people are going to want it everywhere. And it's, you know, it's, yeah, I'm looking it up now. It's two hours and 10 minutes is what they're shooting for. Gotcha. Oh, wow. That's pretty good. Did you push forward stuff that we can expect to see a bunch of cars driving around without drivers behind it or trucks without drivers? Is that stuff coming as well? So, yeah, we worked on that. You know, we don't, the industry is creating that. That's the private sector. Okay.

But our job was to kind of work on the policies to make sure it was safe and to try to support some of the pilot programs that were going on. I actually really believe in the potential of this technology. I know it's spooky for people. You see a car, there's nobody behind the wheel. It's definitely- But as you mentioned earlier about, you know, distracted drivers and stuff, that takes the main cause of danger out of it. Exactly. No, it's definitely possible to envision a future where people are shocked that we drove our own cars. Yeah.

Right, but I have to say though, because I just, actually I was just talking to you, Jay and Will at the interview the other day. Yeah, Waymo, right? Yeah, I was talking about Waymo, which is a self-driving car and I've been in one before, but I'm like, of course I'm a catastrophic thinker. So I think of all the bad parts and all the bad things that can happen. So I'm like, well, this is a terrorist dream to have,

I mean, there's so many scenarios I could come up with I could tell you right now about how to use self-driving cars in a horrible way. Well, just one. Give us one. Well, maybe you'd be late for a daytime massage. Start there. Imagine that. It wouldn't have... It didn't need to know to put the key in the cup. Yeah.

No, Pete, how many billions did you guys put towards? Yeah, no, that's the kill switch. You take the key out of the cup holder and then you don't have a problem. Yeah, no, you could. But my thing is, Sean, as I said to you, is like, I'm worried about cars showing up at restaurants with people who have reservations and it shows up at valet as just like a dead person in the back. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like they had a heart attack on their way to the restaurant. Yeah, or that. Yeah, or that. Well, I will admit I never thought of that. Yeah. A lot. Yeah, they do.

I could think about him in a minute. You know what I mean? And all of a sudden... So, Pete, you've got such a... You know, you seem to...

treasure like we all do our our private life and i would assume that your your your incredibly um you know accomplished career in public life uh has has made that difficult to maintain was that was that a part as we all try to battle with it is that a part that you are comfortable um maintain do you do you guys uh do you find the ability to be private or you are you guys

Because you must get stopped all the time on the street. And is that tough for the kids? Yeah, I definitely think about it differently. It's one thing to take a selfie with somebody at the airport or at a restaurant when I'm just doing my thing. It's another if I feel like somebody might be taking pictures of our kids or we're just trying to- Or pretending to be reading an email. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you've had this experience where people go through all kinds of links to look like they're not.

taking a picture when they're taking a picture. I'm usually pretty oblivious to this. Chasten detects it and then usually takes a picture back at them or teases them about it. But it's like, you know, just ask for a picture. Or says like I do real loud, did you get it? Ask for a picture, it's fine. But yeah, obviously you think about those things differently with your kids. But I'll say like,

The community we're in in Michigan is really great, really warm, welcoming, supportive. And they know you're there, so yeah. And generally, when we're out and about, I mean, people understand that we have a family. But yeah, you think about this differently. You know, they're three, so they're not old enough to really notice or care.

care about stuff that goes with being high profile right now. But it, yeah, it definitely changes the stakes, I think, for anyone who's in public life who's thinking about what to do next. Go ahead, John. I was just saying, have you ever heard of a place called Galeen, Michigan?

Yeah, yeah. It's a really small town. It's not too far from South Bend, I think. Okay, so it's- You got a timeshare you want to offer him? No, Raina, one of my best friends- Raina lives there. Raina lives, she has a restaurant there called Ray and Al's, and it's one of the greatest restaurants, so you check it out. Oh, good to know. All right. Thank you, caller. Thank you. Good plug for Raina. For Ray and Al's- Well, no, I didn't know if you- What's the name of the town, Sean? Sean, what's the name of the town? Their website, you want to- Galeen, Galeen. Galeen. If you're in Galeen, Michigan, go Ray and Al's and say, Raina, and say hi, say you, Sean sent you.

And you'll get 10% off your appetizers. Exactly. So listen, you don't have to answer this, but I would love if you ran for president. Yes, please. And then second, is there something, because Jason kind of asked what you're, well, what are you worried about the most in the future, in the near future? And what are you most hopeful about?

Well, obviously, like politically, I think my worries about the political scene here are, I imagine, pretty obvious. I'm concerned about the things that are happening to freedom in this country. And

And I've been very outspoken about that. I'm also very concerned about what could happen with AI. And I don't just mean like the extinction scenarios and all the crazy stuff. I'm talking about something a little closer to home and I think quicker than people realize, which is how many...

are at risk. Stuff that we thought would happen in like 100 years and it could happen by the end of this decade and just really, really profoundly changing everything. Pete, we were having a discussion about this the other day because we were talking about the idea of bringing manufacturing back to the U.S., which we all could agree would be fantastic, right? If we could...

if we could create more jobs, jobs that were lost over decades and decades. And a lot by... And by the way, a lot of those jobs were farmed out and sent over there by the very same people who were saying, hey, what the hell? How did we do this? Well, we didn't do it. You guys did it because it was saving you a lot of money. However, we can all agree it would be fantastic to bring more jobs. There's no argument there. But one of the things we were talking about the other night is this idea that...

and you brought it up, AI, when you combine that with, you know, advancement in robotics, we have the potential to really decimate the workforce here in this country on a pretty massive scale. And as you pointed out quite quickly. Yeah, and not just manufacturing workers or warehouse workers. We're talking about doctors, lawyers, investors. Like it's, you know. Yes, all of it. I mean, Hollywood was ground zero for some of this, right? With the writer's strike. And that shows just how big a range of...

of people are impacted. But that brings me to maybe the hope side, which is I think if we get it right,

There's also enormous potential here. But our politics has to be lined up the right way, and we have to line up our economy the right way. And what I mean by that, take the example of self-driving cars. There's all kinds of nightmare scenarios. There's also a chance to eliminate one of the leading causes of death in this country, which is the kind of murderous track record of human drivers. We lose 40,000 people a year. And more generally, the same AI systems that could cause huge disruption could also help us

cure cancer and solve climate change and all these other things. I think the biggest question is do we have a political system that makes sure that the enormous wealth that's being created by this technology flows through to the people or does it get concentrated? Oh, for sure we do, Pete. I'm not worried about that at all. Okay, well, I'm glad you're not worried. No, no, no, no. I'm really excited about, are you guys excited about the new robotic AI version of Will and Grace? How good would that be? I don't know.

Hey, everybody, it's just Jack. It's me, it's just Jack. We already saw it. But Pete, when you say flowing back through the people, would that be in the shape of perhaps training the workforce that would be without a job to better transition into a job that is available, maybe through the advancements? I just mean money, actually, like a dividend. Because, you know,

Remember, the taxpayer created a lot of this value, like the internet.

was literally a federal research project in the 60s funded by the American taxpayer. So to me, it's only fair that Americans see more of the income generated by it. But also the thing with training is this isn't just about getting people their income back. I've seen this where I come from in the industrial Midwest. Somebody's been working in a machine shop for 18 years and then that machine shop is closing down and they come along and say, well, do this retraining program, same education, you'll get the same income, you just gotta be a nurse's aide.

and that's a perfectly worthy job, but this guy does not. That job wasn't just his income. That was his identity, and if you're not speaking to that,

then we're going to have all kinds of social upheaval, as we already are, but it's going to get worse. So then what would be the answer then? Getting back to your point about maybe training for transitioning into another available occupation, if that occupation is not aligned with somebody's passion or dreams or identity, what would the answer then be to how to use the newfound funds?

Well, I think, and again, I think some of the funds should just directly, we should have a tax structure where those funds are directly flowing to people more. But in terms of what we do, I think we as a society don't know what to do with ourselves sometimes if we're not putting it all into our jobs. And I'm somebody, you know, I'm guilty of that. Like I have meaningful work and I've thrown myself into my jobs. And that can be a very good thing. But there's so many other sources of meaning that can be connected to service,

They can be connected to a lot of things that used to be considered maybe more conservative coded, but I think my party should pay more attention to them, like family and faith that can bring meaning to a lot of people. Local involvement, like shaping your community, like things where uniquely human skills are absolutely needed.

that we could show more regard for. Like as an economy and a society, we don't show a lot of regard for the work that goes into parenting. We definitely don't compensate that kind of work properly. Same thing with service. I mean, right now they're cutting AmeriCorps as we record this. They're cutting all kinds of service things that actually in a world where

AI generates more the value and productivity like we could you know, a lot of people could have a Shorter work week more money in their pockets and a chance to do things in their community There would absolutely be a source of pride and meaning and I want to live in that kind of that. Yes Well, Pete I made that and I was quite flippant about it when I made the comparison to Canada in the US in terms of

a sense of social consciousness. Because I do agree with you. I do agree that there is a long history of it in this country and that there is still a vein of that. I think that we've been maybe potentially distracted is the word that I'll use. And maybe in certain areas gotten off the path and focused more on our differences and also focused more on ourselves. But I think you're right. I think that if potentially we can all start, and I mean all of us, I mean me too, if we can all start thinking about

We're so hung up on our own condition. And if we could start thinking about other people, it's a really simple concept that if you think about somebody else and you think about helping somebody else, your own situation improves immediately. Well, your own situation does improve because it changes your vibration to sound too woo-woo. I totally agree with all that. That's absolutely true. And being of service is super, super important. And if everybody did it a little bit, the shift would be absolutely... I know, but how do you get people to do it?

I don't know. Put a little incentive there. Yeah. I mean, if you boil it down, if you're feeling bad, just on a day-to-day, if you wake up today, if I feel bad today, if I go out and do something for somebody else, I will immediately alleviate that and raise my own vibration pretty,

Again, it sounds very woo-woo. I'm not woo-woo that way. Well, is it something that you're tracking on your aura ring on the app itself? Jason, this concept is tough for him. Doing something for somebody else. How would I... Let me look at it. Talk slower, please. Pictures are better. Pictures are better. Pete, before we let you go, I would love to hear from you who, if you could travel back in time, who would you love to sit down, have a coffee with to get some tips from on how to address this...

I guess I shouldn't say uniquely challenging situation where we find ourselves in because we seem to cycle through moments like this. But who would you love to talk to right now? Well, I can definitely imagine, and I was...

maybe a little obvious to the point of cliche, but I can picture like, if I get to have a coffee with Abraham Lincoln and I'm saying like, look, our country's divided. It's probably, he says, oh, you think your country's divided? Wow. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. You know, I mean, he was in charge when half of the country broke off and declared war against the other half, mainly for the purpose of being able to continue enslaving people, right? So for a little perspective around our problems, I think he would be a really good person to talk to. Right. And also somebody who was

unflappable in so many ways. And, and like for somebody who has the ambition to become a president and a wartime president, um, surprisingly low ego, there's a famous anecdote where one of his generals was getting out of hand and, and his advisor said, you got to cut this guy down to size. And he said, I would, I would hold his horse if he could win, uh, this, this battle for me. And just, it's

attributes that I would like to see a little more of. So I know it's a little obvious, but I can't think of, like in the political space, I can't think of somebody you'd more want to consult than Lincoln. No, it's a good answer. And I had asked Sean about a week ago that same question. You know what he said? He'd like to sit down. Chef Boyardee. What? Yeah. Really? Just to see, you just said a nice meal? How did he cut it off? How did he cut it off? Number two, the Colonel. Yeah.

Number two, the Colonel. Yeah, absolutely. How do you make it? And then Ronald McDonald. So listen. Pete, thank you so, so much for coming on and making this. Yes, don't ever stop talking and going on these shows. I mean, it's just, you're just amazing and thank you for all that you do. Hey, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, yeah. All right, looking forward to seeing more of you in

in the very near future, if you know what I mean. I'll be around. I'll be out there. Thank you. Okay, good. I'll be around. Good, good. See you later. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Love to you and Chasten and the kids too. Yes. Thanks so much. Okay, bye. Bye. Take care.

there yeah i felt weird calling him pete um i know me too who started did you start it kind of it came out by accident and i felt like that was maybe disrespectful but no was it i don't think he would have minded i i have had a dinner with him a couple times secretary buddha judge is that what we should have said mr secretary mr secretary well but he's not that anymore he's no but i think you get to carry that for oh you do okay i don't know as a coach

Sean, will you write him something nice and apologize for us? Yeah, apologize for us. And just say that you had started it and you feel bad that the other guys... Could you mail it with some hazardous materials just to test his theory out? Just to test his theory. By the way, I didn't want to say anything, but I put my hand in my pocket during that interview and I still have two peanut M&Ms in it.

Oh my, what, from last night's rave? No, tonight, this morning, I put them in there. Oh God, because you were just waiting. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. It's 10.30 in the morning. You put two peanut M&Ms in before 9.30? Yeah, I did. Well, just in case you're thinking, well, maybe I can earn these at some point today? Yeah, no, I had a bunch of them and I ate them all, but I thought I ate them all and there's two left in there. What time did you have your first M&M today? Okay.

Nine, nine, nine. What's the matter with you? Did that come out of the candy bowl there in the living room? Yes. You know it very well. You know, you won't eat them if you don't have a candy bowl. Uh-huh. Wait, can you write that down? Yeah. How often do you go to the dentist?

I just went yesterday. And? Everything's great. It's not like I don't brush. I don't eat candy and then close my mouth. Do you floss? Yeah, every day. Truly? I do every single day. Why wouldn't you? And that's morning or night? I do morning. And if I ate something like a steak or something that gets between your teeth, I do like...

I'll do another floss. I'll do a second floss. And you do the little swords or do you do the old school? No, I can't do the swords because they make your gums bleed because you put them down so hard. You know what I mean? Well, why don't you be nicer to yourself and you won't bleed?

But you don't have a choice because you got to get in there. They're not as good as actual floss either. That's right. They're good in a pinch. You can control the floss, you know. Yeah, but they're a cheat and they're not as good and it makes you a lesser person. Weren't we just talking about the Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg? And now I brought us into floss. I apologize. How great is he? By the way, you both asked all the questions I would have wanted to ask. And he didn't answer the thing about the president. I mean, do you think he'll run?

Well, you didn't ask him. You said I want you to. I know. We didn't want to ambush him with that. That's right. It's too early. That's right. I just kind of glazed over it, but I wonder. You didn't ask him for any theater stories. I know. I didn't ask him for any. You know what I liked about him? He speaks very soberly, and I do like the idea. I like the idea that he goes on, and he goes on to other shows. He goes on to shows across the political spectrum, and I think that's really important.

Because as you both know, we all have, we have a lot of people in our lives, friends and family who live across that same political spectrum. Right. And we all find ways to meet in the middle and talk about stuff. And we all want the best for each other. And I like the idea that he goes and he does that very same thing. I don't feel as divided as a lot of people do from the people on other ends of the spectrum. I think it's important that we all continue to talk because we're all in this together. Yeah.

That's right. Yes. I agree. And he checks a lot of boxes that you'd think would please both sides. Yeah. I agree. And there are a lot of things that make sense that a lot of people say, you know, and sometimes the message is harder for people to digest, or not the message, the delivery and the approach. But, you know, we do have a lot of stuff that's common ground. And, JB, I know you're looking for a bot. He has a nice way about him. He does have a really nice way about him. Nice way about him.

Yeah, he does. Very nice speaking voice on him. Yeah, he does. And I meant it when he says he takes the contention out of it, right? He's like, I'm not here to argue. I'm just here to talk and, you know, let's all feel like we're getting... Sean's thinking of a... One of you is thinking of a vibe. Oh, yeah, he's doing a massive Google search right now. I mean, this is unbelievable. You know, I think up a lot of them in between, like during the week, and then I forget them.

That's a good story. You should open with that. You know what? A bison, I heard, would be a good one to work in. We've done that one. We did? We've done that a million times. Yeah. It's such a stupid thing that we're doing. You've been saying it's stupid since day one. But every single time we get to it, it's insane to me. And now it's just ironic that we're doing like, it's so dumb that we just decided, well, it's so dumb, let's just still do it.

Yeah, you know and should we not you say you want to do it by the way? We don't have to think of a word. We could just say goodbye Well, yeah, how would you how would you wrap this thing up without I have one that would I would say you just make your situation Listen, we're in a situation that you don't like and you feel you don't like that We're in this situation and Jason. I'm gonna like to change it. I

I'm going to put it in golf terms. Oh, that's great. So sometimes you hit a good drive and you go down the middle of the thing, but you know, it's a little bit, and you know what you can always do? You can always improve your life.

No, not cutting it. Okay. I was going to say, I was going to say, wait, it's right there. It's right there. He's Pete Buttigieg. He was in office. He reached across the aisle. He was very, he was very bipartisan. Bye. Bye. See you next week.

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Hey friends, Jason here. We're so excited. The Smart List has officially joined the SiriusXM family. We can't wait to announce new surprise guests who we know that you'll love. If you want to be the first to hear new episodes ad-free and a whole week early, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit SiriusXM.com slash podcasts plus to start your free trial today.