S1 E3: Maple & Finn
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Hey, it's Tiffany. I wanted to give an extra trigger warning for today's episode because it deals with the abuse of animals. I will be avoiding as much extra detail as possible. Please use discretion when listening. Thank you so much.

Psychotherapist Dawn Drucker has worked with a wide spectrum of clients, including individuals of all age groups as well as individuals with personality disorders. In an article she wrote for PETA, Dawn shared that she has found that there is a correlation between individuals who harm or kill animals and sociopathic behavior. Dawn writes,

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM, is published by the American Psychiatric Association, and it is used as a tool by mental health workers to diagnose clients' psychological problems based on their symptoms and behavior. Diagnosing clients is necessary for the development of their treatment goals.

Unfortunately, there are limited diagnostic tools to confirm the link between cruelty to animals and sociopathic behavior. But sociopathic behavior and the sociopathic personality type are indeed prevalent in our society. For example, serial killers such as Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Richard Ramirez...

as well as countless other serial killers, murderers, and rapists all abused animals as children, and that behavior escalated into harming humans. The sociopathic personality first develops in early childhood or adolescence and is classified under the diagnosis of conduct disorder, which then develops into antisocial personality disorder. One of the early signs of conduct disorder is often cruelty to animals.

An individual who is able to engage in cruelty to animals appears to have no conscience and thus no remorse for his or her behavior. The act of cruelty to animals results from an apparent need for power and control, and this need is accompanied by a lack of empathy. Animals are targeted,

especially helpless and defenseless ones, because the perpetrator does not recognize or care that they have feelings and can experience not just physical pain, but also emotional pain. I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong. You think you know me, you don't know me well. You think you know me, you don't know me well.

My fiance started to call me his little Frenchie, his little French bulldog. Here's Sarah. He would say, I didn't realize I got myself a French bulldog. And what he meant by that was kind of delicate, delicate to the environment, sensitive. When did you get rid of your dog? March 16th. Not that anybody's counting. I found a home for her because she...

I first liked him. They got along really well, but over time, like I noticed in jealousy and I thought, okay, you always trust the dog's instincts. Like they can, they can read people, but I would watch how his dog treated him and his dog loved worship the ground he walked on. And so I thought, okay, I took that into account. And then as time went on, uh, my dog, Maple hated him. She didn't hate anybody, but she was always a little bit timid around men. She just, she would allow my dad to pet her. Um,

she would tolerate other guys, but she didn't seek them out. She would go to women. So I thought, well, maybe she'd been abused or something in the past. So, of course, enter my fiancé, who's very tall. He's a broad guy, and he's got a male dog with him. And we're in close quarters over the weekend, and this...

For months before he was in the picture, this was her territory. She was alpha dog. So of course he comes in and rocks the boat. She's not going to like it. And that's kind of how I took it. Bulldog people, I have a lot of friends and people at work that are very familiar with that breed. And they would say this breed is very dominant.

And they're very loyal. They're a one person dog. They'll have other people they are fond of, but they latch on to one person. So you've had all this one-on-one time with her, bonded with her, and plus you adopted her. So she's even more clingy to just you. But it would get to the point where instead of getting better, it started getting worse. And a

According to my fiance, I mean, he was watching all these dog whisper videos and coming in. And I thought, oh my gosh, how sweet of you trying to win my dog over doing all this research. He'd send me all this info and he'd be like, okay, I bought this thing. Here's what we're going to do. Here's the game plan. And I'm like, oh gosh, I wish I cared as much. I just assumed she'll get over it. And I wasn't really, you know, working toward it.

So we would try all these things and it got worse and worse and worse until she started snipping at him and biting him. She would, every time I was out of the room, whether in the bathroom, like getting ready or outside of my room and he was in my room with her, she would screech and bulldogs, you know, make the weirdest sounds. And so I would come running in and he'd be on the other side of the room laughing and look at me like,

I don't know what I did. I literally just looked at her or I walked by or something or I, you know, whatever. And I just go, man, what on earth? And it got worse and worse and worse. So I thought about it and thought about it. I didn't tell anybody really about it. I just kind of mentioned a few times, like I could find her a home and,

And when I got serious about it, he was like, are you sure you want to do this? And I finally, yep, I'm making the decision. And I found the perfect family. They had apparently wanted her before I got her, before I had adopted her a year earlier. They'd heard that she was available, went to go get her, found out she was already gone. So it was just, it was kind of, it seemed like fate, you know, she ended up back with this very same family and it was, and she loved them, which really helped me sleep at night because I was scared. Yeah.

I loved her a lot and she really latched onto me. So what I didn't want to happen was to send her with someone and have her freak out, you know, walked with this lady right to her car, got right in like no problem. And I thought, thank you, God, I needed to see that. And she did great.

Well, back up a little bit. And my roommate back in late November had been on our porch. We live on the second story of this craftsman house downtown and she'd been stretching ready for a run. My fiance had been taking both of our dogs out for a potty walk and was at the base of the stairs, not knowing that my roommate was up on the porch stretching and

And my roommate looks down and sees him. Both dogs are several feet away from him at the very end of the leash. And out of nowhere, unprovoked, he kicked my dog. Like rear, left or right, I can't remember. Like hind area, kind of in her hip. And actually, she's a tank. She weighs 30 pounds. She's a little 30-pound tank. Launched her into the air. Her body actually lifted and got shoved forward. And she screamed and...

Just a heads up, the audio quality here isn't the best. Here is Sarah's roommate at the time, Karen.

She told me days later, because she, in the moment, he's here for the weekend. She didn't know what to do, and it was intimidated. So days later, it was like, hey, I don't know how to tell you this, but I, you know, he kicked your dog. And I just went, I'm, like, your brain doesn't know what to do with that information at that moment. Because nothing, nothing affirms that. Nothing I had ever seen showed, like, there were no red flags, no aggression from him at that point. This is back at the beginning. So did you think...

She's full of shit. No, that's the other thing is I trust this girl. I trust her 100%. So I knew that she'd seen it, but in my mind I made up reasons and excuses. Maybe he was just trying to play and it turned into a missaw and both are true. Like maybe it was a momentary outburst. Like there's so many things in my head.

That I just, I didn't know what to do with it. So I literally shelved it. I didn't know what to do. And so I didn't ask him. No, I didn't confront him about it. And thinking back, now that I look at it clearly, there was a teeny little part of me that knew that he would explain it away. And I almost didn't want it to get explained away because I knew there was something wrong about it.

but I kind of let it go. And then over time, I noticed that with his dog, he would play this game. He was always kind of a roughhouser. When we were in Texas at his family's house, they had these huge, uh, new fees. They're like big bear dogs and he would wrestle them on the ground. And he was used to being raised with big dogs and they would yelp every once in a while. And I would be like, Oh, but also I think I'm a girl. I'm really gentle. Like I'm not going to roughhouse with a dog, but he was always more aggressive with animals than I felt comfortable with.

But I kind of let it go because, again, I would think, I'm the sensitive one. He's not. So with his dog, he would play this game where when he was asleep, he would plug his nose holes and wait for him to, like, wake up in a panic. And he'd just kind of laugh. And I'd be like, babe, that's kind of mean. That's not okay. And he'd be like, what? He's fine. Look at him. And he would just kind of have this sick sense of humor. Or the dog would walk by and he'd be sitting on the couch and just for fun he'd, like, kind of pop.

kind of pop him in the rear just enough to make his hind legs like lift and make the dog kind of look back at him like, what'd you just do? What just happened? And it wouldn't outright hurt him, but it wasn't necessary. It just kind of seemed like he was bullying him a little bit, almost asserting dominance. But with this story that he'd pitched me of how he found this dog, that he found him in the corner at a shelter, abused, like bullied,

just beaten and growling and snarling and biting. And he nursed him back to health and he kind of beat the aggression out of him sort of, and like established dominance. And now this dog loves him. I have this whole story in my head and I thought, don't question his methods. He obviously has created this dog to be what he is now. The sweetest dog to walk the earth.

So I didn't question him and come to find out later. That's not how I got the dog. None of that was true. Absolutely. None of it. But I found out that he was, I mean, he did show signs of aggression. So later I realized that he was terrorizing my dog and that's why she hated him. Yeah. Hindsight, man. Yeah. But I, I mean, she come, I talked to her new owner and she had taken her to the vet cause she'd started limping. This was,

late June, early July after we'd broken up and everything was done. Took her to the vet and the vet's first question was, has this dog been abused? She looks like she's been kicked.

And the lady said, well, I have my suspicions. So let me tell you. And according to, I talked to this lady on the phone. She's a Christian. I'd never met her before. She took my dog and she said, and she's older. She's so sweet. She goes, honey, let me tell you that when I, that day I met you, I instantly loved you. You endeared yourself to me and I knew something's wrong.

There's a reason. Yep. No, with my relationship, something is wrong. Um, cause she said, no, never met him. Um, but she said, I could tell that you were taking a huge step and that you dearly love this dog and she loved you. And there was something wrong with why you were choosing to like, if it, and she argued with me when I tried to send her with her, she kind of grandmawed me. She sat down and she goes, now, are you sure this is what you want? Cause I am not taking this dog from you. Cause I can tell how much you love her.

you know, unless I know for sure that you've thought this through. And I was like, yes, I know it's going to be hard, but take her while I'm feeling strong. Yeah. And come to find out she had a ruptured ligament in the same side that my roommate had seen her get kicked.

But the other caveat to that was the vet said she also has hip dysplasia, which is common in those breeds. It's a little bit early for her. She's a little too young for it. So it could have been brought on by trauma, but it's not evidence enough for me to file an animal abuse report or something that could, you know, specifically pin that on him. So as of now, I haven't done anything about that.

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done well. Deck upgrades, done well. Electrical upgrade, done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high-quality certified pros at Angie.com. Here's Sarah's sister, Emily. He was really good towards Finn, and it made me so angry because I loved Finn. I was obsessed with Finn. I let that

on my bed, on my red couch, that had Dory fur made white. I loved that dog. And it was such a calm, obedient dog. It required no discipline until I realized the reason it is so calm and obedient is because it's gotten so much discipline. I realized watching him interact with the dog, whether he was trying to get it to obey him or he was trying to show off how much fun he can have with it, it was always abusive. He would slap its rear end.

He would do it in a, like, he would, like, mask it to look like it was playful. So, you know, he'd smack its butt, and you'd be like, ooh, shucks, you did that a little bit hard. But he was doing it in a playful way, so you don't realize that that was abuse. Because you're like, he's just playing with the dog, you know? You don't think much of it. He would do things like that, or he would, like, take a baby, and then freaking cover its nose, like, or its nostrils, what's it called, his snage.

or whatever. He'd grab it and cover all of its breathing orifices and wait and wait and wait until the dog would start to scramble. His body would start... He'd hold it even longer. Like, look how long I'll do this for. And then finally, the dog would start to whimper like it is eating air and he'd let go and he'd laugh. And then we'd be like...

And me, who was obsessed with that dog, made me angry. And I'm like, yeah, like Finn, come to me. Why the fudge are you going back to him right now? And that would be the excuse was, obviously, I didn't have that back. Because look, he comes right back to me. You are a stupid dog. And then he's, what the fudge did you do to it when nobody was watching? When you weren't trying to be funny and you weren't trying to please the crowd, what did you do to that dog? I watched how rough he was with her, the dog, and his dog.

Here's Sarah's parents, Greg and Rose. And it was another head tilt. And I thought, but his dog loves him. And he said he got it from a rescue. And at that point, I had no reason to believe that would have been a lie. Like, who would make that up?

I didn't even suspect that. I just thought that dog was amazing. We all loved his dog. And he got it as a rescue, supposedly, and that it was timid when he got it. And I thought, you have turned this dog into an amazing love. And so whatever you're doing, it can't be abusive. But he would take it and he'd roll around with it until it would...

cry. What kind of dog was it? It was a mix. Border Collie? Not a Border Collie. It was a sheep dog. It looked like a long-haired Border Collie. Good-sized dog, though. It's like medium-sized.

Yeah. Medium to big, yeah. Because Sarah's dog was small, right? Yeah, yeah. And I thought, well, you know, it's a guy's best friend, and I don't really understand the physical kind of pushing it around a little bit. But the dog would come right back and come to him and lick him and stuff. And he'd hold its head in a way that was restrictive and kind of roll around on the ground. And I thought, oh.

And my aunt, she said, I don't like the way he treats that dog. Well, I didn't have a lot of respect for her opinions because she was very critical. And I thought, whatever, you know, I didn't pay any attention to that. But looking back, I saw the way he treated that dog and...

I mean, Sarah and I went to check on it after they were apart. Sarah, we had to go and get some stuff out of the house. And she did text him and say, the dog is alone. It's cold out. I know you're not around. Can I go in and open up the garage door or something? Yeah, sure. And we went over there and it had no water. And it was just like, he's just cool. And then to know that he kicked her dog.

who's a very sensitive little skittish thing anyway, and sometimes he would hold her upside down, and that's not the type of dog that you coddle like that. And he would hold her like this and pretend to really love it, and you find out later that he kicked it so hard that, you know, it harmed her hip to where she needed surgery, we think. We can't prove it. He just, he's freaking, he flip-flops so much. Here's Emily. In the beginning, I said how much I hated Maple, and I mean, I...

hated her so much and I said that around him and he would be oh how can you hate Mabes look at her and he'd like pull her over and show her love and play with her and oh and just look at Sarah and be like I love Mabel and she'd be like see Emily like you're the only one it's just you and I'd be like um nope then I didn't like her anymore I really don't like you so that's how he started out with Mabel was an angel Mabel was perfect Mabel was

Maple is a goddess. I love Maple. And then as time went on, it was, and all of a sudden it changed from we love Maple to don't worry, we'll figure out how to get rid of her. Maple will be gone. And he would kind of like nonchalantly say, oh, yeah, we're talking about options. We're going to get rid of Maple. And then at one point when Sarah was gone, he did kind of lean in and say, excuse over for dinner or something. And for whatever reason, Sarah was gone. He leaned in and said, no,

He knew that Emily didn't like her dog. She just didn't like her. The dog had a quirky personality and Emily just didn't like the, the, um,

slobberiness of it, the snorting, the... Yeah, it was kind of destructive and things that she just was irritated by it. And he knew this. One time when Sarah was here with the dog, Sarah had went on a walk or was in her room or was in another room or something, and he leaned forward as if to say, you and me here, and said, when we get married, that's one of the first things to go, is that dog. And that was another one of those...

I thought, yeah, right. You're just, you know, being friendly with Emily. It didn't click for me to even take Sarah aside and tell her, did you know this? When I told her later, she said, mom, why didn't you tell me that? And I thought, I don't even know that I believed him. It was so bizarre. He just, there were so many of those things that happened that you just go, oh my goodness.

Well, and with the dog, the other thing that didn't make sense is at the very beginning, he talked a lot about buying her another one. Well, come to find he didn't really like the dog. Why would you, who's trying to save money, buy a dog that's anywhere from two to five grand easily? Brand new puppy. And of course, she's like, oh, because she happens to adore that breed.

So at Friendsgiving, here's Sarah's friend, Alyssa. Somehow when we were all talking to him, he brought up his dog. And I was like, oh my gosh, we really want to get a dog. Our daughter loves dogs and like we're not ready to have another baby. So like we want to get her a dog. And he was like,

I really want to find a family for my dog because we, I like, I live in the city. I have a small apartment or something like that. And he was like showing his pictures of his dog, which was like so cute. And he's like, I would love to give my dog to you guys. And Ryan and I were like, what? Like we just met each other 40 minutes ago. Like,

And so he's like, you know, he's been or she I can't remember if his dog was a boy or girl, whatever. My dog's like been super well trained. And I like I just don't have time to like play with him because I work so much. And I would really love for my dog to like have a family to play with, which like totally made sense. And Sarah was kind of interesting. She was like super caught off guard by that. She was like, what? Like, are you serious? You want you would do that?

He's like, yeah, of course. Like, that would be perfect. And she's like, okay. All right.

So it was just a little bit like, okay, like, yeah, yeah, we want your dog, I guess. So she had never heard, it didn't sound like she expected that he was actually looking for a home for the dog. No, uh-uh, not at all. It all seemed like a very new information for her. So we just left it with, like, we have to check with our landlords and you, well, I'll get back to you, I guess. So, like, a week or so later, Sarah texted me about...

about the dog situation. And she basically said, I'm basically asking you to not take the dog because, you know, God forbid that we break up, but I would never want to put anyone, any one of us in an awkward position, um, like with a dog, you know? And I was like, a hundred percent, like my friendship with you is way more important than this weird potential dog situation. So like, of course, you know, all done. Yeah. Yeah.

But I remember reading that and thinking back to Friendsgiving and how everything with them was almost like a done deal. They may as well have been engaged, even though they weren't. Like, it was just, they were actively talking about it with each other in front of their friends. Yeah.

And so when she sent me that text, I was a little bit like, you're being realistic. That's good. Like, you're not engaged yet. So it's good that you're thinking that through. But from the way it came across the other night, it was almost like, I don't know if you still have this feeling.

Something deep down knows that this might not work. But I didn't say that to her. But it kind of showed me where she was actually at. Freaking abusive. Poor Sarah. She just had to feel it. So to find out she was being abused, but for her, she probably just felt like it was somehow. And she left thinking it was like maybe she did. She felt like she didn't see it. How could she not have seen it? One was making his life a little...

to her attention. You can see that kick being a solution to a lot of things. It probably wasn't even the only kick. To do that, what kind of disconnect did he have in his head to be able to inflict that pain on purpose? Well, that is supposedly by the woman you are in love with. Like, the main dysfunction you've got to have to see that being okay. And it, oh, I just, that's, I think that's just repulsive.

According to the prestigious Mayo Clinic, antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate, or treat others harshly or with callous indifference.

They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder often violate the law, becoming criminals. They may lie, behave violently or impulsively, and have problems with drug and alcohol use. Because of these characteristics, people with this disorder typically can't fulfill responsibilities related to family, work, or school.

Antisocial personality disorder signs and symptoms may include a disregard for right and wrong, persistent lying or deceit to exploit others, being callous, cynical, and disrespectful to others, using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure, arrogance, a sense of superiority, and being extremely opinionated.

Reoccurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior. Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty. Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead. Hostility, agitation, aggression, or violence. Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others. Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others.

Poor or abusive relationships. Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them. Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations.

Adults with antisocial personality disorder typically show symptoms of conduct disorder before the age of 15. Signs and symptoms of conduct disorder include serious, persistent behavioral problems, such as aggression towards people and animals, destruction of property, deceitfulness, theft, serious violation of rules. Next time on Something Was Wrong. You think you know me, you don't.

No woman knows this much about another man's emotions and feelings and heart's desires if she's not been romantic with him in some way. I thought, is Brian okay with this? This woman is saying that she has a close relationship with the Lord and that she is in tune with the Holy Spirit, but that she's also speaking and using her own language and homonizing.

We have been blown away by your response, reviews, and shares of this podcast. Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much it means.

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Something Was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese. A heartfelt thank you to Sarah, her family, and friends for participating in this series. Check out Sarah's personal blog, Space and Purpose, via the show notes. All of the music this season comes from the band Gladrags.

Special thank you to Alyssa Doyle for her hype, support, and story editing assistance. Shout out to my husband, Michael, and our three children for encouraging me every step of the way. If you're enjoying Something Was Wrong, please subscribe now and consider sharing with your friends and family and like literally anybody you've ever met. Just, that'd be great. Thank you.

If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE.

If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. She struck him with her motor vehicle. She had been under the influence and then she left him there.

In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask.

Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover-up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion.

And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.