S12 E4: Constant State of Chaos
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As life is good with us, he's living here, friends are back in town, going out to dinners and movies and it's being normal again. I'm still...

Really curious as to why I haven't met Ruth. And I get that we're working through his mental health and stuff, but really needed that to happen so we could move forward with our relationship. We have, at this point, picked up furniture for her room upstairs. We started to paint and sand and we got rug cleaners and really making it look nice up there. And I'm super excited about it. It's going to look so cute. I'm real pumped.

I'm also real excited at this point at being a stepmom. I love kids and I had all these plans for her that we were going to do together, especially when the holidays started to roll around. I was in a really good headspace. And then again, though, we would plan a weekend with Ruth and it would get canceled. We'd plan a weekend with Ruth and it would get canceled. And I was like, why does this keep happening? And finally, he came home one day and he goes, I have really bad news.

When he was younger, he had cancer, not a super serious cancer in one of his organs, some polyps, no big deal. And from the beginning of our relationship, every six months, he was the doctors getting checked for this. So I knew about this. He did not spring this on me. And he came home and he goes, my cancer came back. And I was like, what?

And he's like, it's not serious. It's just a couple polyps. Don't want you to freak out. But I am going to have to do some radiation. They might have to go in and remove them just so you're aware of what's going on. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm naturally freaking out because when you hear the cancer word, it's very scary. Again, this meant that we had to cancel our upcoming weekend with Ruth because he was going to have to do radiation and some other things. And I was like, God damn it. This universe just kept getting canceled. It was so frustrating.

It was during the work week and we all are on like this group thread and Kenzie shares with us that he had cancer when he was in high school. That was the first time for me to hear that. And it's come back. And this time it's aggressive and it's a unique type of cancer, at least from what I recall reading. I didn't immediately respond, which that's kind of a text message. Something

Something you respond instantly to. You call your friend. But I remember picking up my phone, reading that, and being like, this is too much. People have bad stuff happen to them in life. Some people have, like, multiple bad things happen to them in life. But I'm like, how...

I want to believe it and I want to have empathy for my friend because that's terrible. They've gone through all these things together. But like how many bad things can happen to one person? So many unique bad things and exceptional ones, not small ones. They meet, his mom passes away. Then he goes into witness protection, but he's this movie producer and super rich. And then like he has cancer. It felt like...

I don't know, I was watching like a Netflix series a little bit. But I felt like he always had evidence to prove for all of it. But the cancer thing, it just was like too much. I felt like that's when everybody started to communicate a little bit more openly about what do you think? We started to ask one another that a little bit more.

I remember talking to one of my other personal friends, and her father has a very rare form of cancer. I'm like, you know, I feel bad for Kenzie and Joe. You know, they're going through this, but maybe I should send them something, but I don't know. And my friend immediately was like, he has cancer now?

I'm like, yeah, so don't judge me, but that's a lot, right? She's like, that's way too much. I thought I was just being ridiculous because who questions somebody when they say I have cancer? This guy has a lot of shit happening. He's either the unluckiest asshole on the planet or he is lying. And when I started thinking about that, I'm like,

Well, obviously the witness protection sounds the most outlandish, but on the other hand, it could easily be cancer that he's faking. But also who has the balls enough to call someone out saying like, I don't think you really have cancer. I remember reading this article about signs of unhealthy relationships. One of the things it said was being in a constant state of chaos is never good for a relationship.

And immediately I thought of Kenzie and I thought of Joe. I'm like, oh my God.

Mackenzie has been dating this guy for over a year and they've been in a constant state of chaos. That's what sounded off some big red flags and alarms for me. That much crazy can't happen to one person that quickly. And I think on top of it, his mom had had cancer and passed away. And now it's the trial. Now the trial is over and now he has cancer. And to me at this point, it just seemed like

excuses for Kenzie to never meet his family or meet his daughter. It seemed like there was always something else, which after a while just got kind of like, whoa, I can't, that much can't happen to one person that quick. But you know, everything was counted for and Kenzie was seeing proof of things. So it was a weird place, I think.

I don't think this man has cancer. I think that was a big lie. But after his cancer diagnosis, he decided that they were going to drastically change their habits and their diets. They weren't going to drink anymore. They were only going to eat from the earth, no processed foods or anything like that. And he decided that he wanted to get into juicing. And so I bought him this really nice juicer and sent it with a little note saying, hope this helps. And thinking of you, whatever, love you.

And he called me and wasn't able to get ahold of me. So he left a voicemail thanking me for my juicer. And I didn't even realize that I had it until I was like scrolling through my voicemails. And I was like, oh my God, I have a voicemail of him. I could probably play it for you. This is from September 2nd of 2021. Oh my goodness. I almost accidentally called the number. I don't know what I'm going to learn.

So he goes through his stuff with the doctors, starting his radiation.

And after the third time, he comes home and he looks real bad. I mean, there is no color in his skin at all. He is vomiting. He is bleeding. And I was like, seriously?

is this normal? I don't know what to expect from radiation. So I'm like Googling and I'm like, I know you're not supposed to look good, but like, I feel like this looks extra bad compared to the first two days you got it. And he's real, real sick that night. And that night he had to stay at a hotel because one night a week as he was weaning out of Wipro, he had to still stay at a hotel. Just one night. He was with me all the other nights.

And he called me in the middle of the night and he had immense bleeding. And he was like, something is wrong. I have to go to the hospital. I'm super worried. He gets admitted. He instantly gets put into surgery. One of his organs ripped. And I'm freaking out. I'm not sleeping. I hear from Ward eventually. And he's like, I'll keep you updated. It should be okay. Don't worry. And I'm like, okay. Finally, he comes out of surgery at like 4 a.m.,

And he's okay. And the long of the short of it was that they thought his organ ripped because surrounding organs probably also have polyps, cancerous polyps in them. It probably spread more than they realized. And there might be pressure...

and friction happening that they weren't aware of. And with the radiation and everything, it caused the organ to rip. That meant that he was going to have to go in for more tests and they were going to have to see if the cancer spread. And that was really scary to hear because you never want to hear the cancer spread.

He, over the next couple of weeks, goes in for more tests and they are finding out that there are polyps in surrounding areas. Again, not terrible. And he keeps reassuring me. He's like, this is fine. It's going to be fine. This isn't going to kill me. It's going to be fine. Got to do more radiation. It's no big deal. And a surgery to remove some of the polyps, but it's going to be okay.

I'm on the other side of this freaking out, freaking out. I have a large network of friends and many of them are doctors or have family doctors. And I'm like, tell me everything I need to know. I want to know everything I need to know to make sure that my boyfriend's health is

is the best it can be as he goes through this. What do we need to do? And they're sending me all sorts of things about this particular cancer. We are going to eat really well and exercise and do some things that are supposed to help this particular cancer get better. I am at this point on call. I'm a nurse. I am here for him. He can't stand when he's home. I have to help lift him up. He's basically, he's not fully bedridden. We'll say like six,

65% bedridden and when he does get up, it's painful and he can't move for very long. I'm taking care of everything. I'm cleaning. I'm making sure I have meals cooked for him so that when I'm at work, he has things he can eat for lunch and breakfast and that they're healthy and that they're helping him and all this stuff. I am fully invested in making sure this man is healthy.

And I'm really upset. It's also really stressing me out. And so we're going through this whole awful cancer process. And I'm watching him get sick every night. And it's awful. And he's vomiting. And he's falling on the floor. And he's in the bathroom a lot. And he's pale. And he can't eat. And it's terrible. This goes on for about three weeks. And I come home one day after work.

bad feeling that day. And I don't know why I remember having a bad feeling and there was no indicators. He did not say anything to me that should have given me this bad feeling. It was just a straight gut feeling. And I decide to leave work and head home and I get there and I walk in and he has packed all his shit up and put it in his car. And he is sitting there

with a bag in his hand and his pillow. And I'm like, what is happening? And he's like, I'm going to leave. I'm leaving. And I was like, what? And he's like, I'm leaving. I need to fight this cancer on my own. And I was like, wait, hold on, hold on. I have been taking care of you from the beginning. I have stuck with you through this wit pro shit and happily made it through COVID on the other side. We have a great relationship. You're leaving. Why? Why?

And he's like, I have to do this. And it reminded me of the breakdown he had six months earlier when he totally lost it. And I was like, what is going on? And again, he's crying and stuff. He's very emotional. And I'm like, I don't understand. This doesn't make any sense to me. And he's like, I have to go.

I remember him standing at the door and he's clutching his pillow and he is tears streaming down his face. And I'm like, if you wanted to go, why haven't you done it? Why aren't you going? And he's frozen there for like five minutes. And I went, you don't want to go. You're leaving for something you're not telling me. There is something here that you are not telling me. And I don't know what it is, but you do not want to walk out that door and I can tell.

He sat there clutching his pillow again. And I'm like, okay, well, he finally gets up the courage. He walks out the door. He pulls away with his car packed. And I'm devastated. Totally blindsided. It doesn't feel any worse than that. I'm a caretaker by nature. I was just so blindsided. I was out to dinner with a girl I used to work with.

And at the time, her and I were online dating. And we were talking about how crazy it is out there and how wild people are. And she was telling me that every date she goes on, she runs their phone number through this search engine. And it gives her a ton of information. This girl used to work at HR. So I was like, oh, that's so smart. I should start doing that with people I'm dating. I went home and it was one of those shower thoughts I had. What

What would happen if we ever ran Joe's name or number? I didn't want the FBI knocking on my door, you know, because I'm searching his number. But then after a day or two, I searched his phone number and his real name popped up.

And part of me was still like, maybe it's fake. Who knows in the witness protection, if you have a number, maybe they like put a fake name to it or whatever. His name popped up and then there was a woman's name. It shows who you're connected with and where you live. And he was living with this woman or so it said on the site.

I had that information for two days and I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know if it was real. I didn't want to go to Kenzie and be like, I've searched your boyfriend's name because I wasn't 100% trusting what he was saying. I was sitting on it to see when and if I should say anything. That weekend, a friend of mine was having a barbecue.

And my whole friend group was going to be there. And I decide I'm going to go. It had been two days since he walked out. I'm a total mess. I don't think I even told anyone he walked out. I think I was still processing this because I didn't believe it myself. Because this man only told me he loved me and treated me well every day. So I was really confused.

I go to the barbecue and I'm a wreck and they can see it. I'm trying to hide it, but they can see it. And they're like, how are you? What's going on? And I'm like, I'm not great. I think Joe and I broke up, but like, I'm not totally sure. We're going through a lot, whatever. And they're like, okay. And they're worried about me. And I was not myself. I talked to my friend Harper and I'm like, I feel like something is wrong here. There is something that he is not telling me and I need to figure it out.

because this doesn't make any sense. And she's like, I can help you. And I was like, yes, let's do some sleuthing.

I hadn't really sleuthed deeply on him. I hadn't needed to. We shared our whole life together and he showed me plenty and he was good to me. So I never really needed to. I made jokes in the past of if this man was ever with anyone, I couldn't imagine if he was with anyone else because he's constantly texting me. And when he's around me, he never had his phone out. Never. He never looked at his phone. So like I had nothing to be suspicious of. And I,

I had done a reverse number search on him when him and I first met, and I didn't get anything out of it. But at this point, it had been a year and eight months. So I don't know, things have changed. She did a reverse number search on him, and she found that he was connected to a property that he bought that spring. And so was a woman. And she was like, who's that? ♪

And I was like, I don't know. At that point, decided I was about to stay up all night and figure out what the hell was going on. I stayed up all night and I sleuthed and I looked him up and eventually found that he was married and that he had been married since two months before meeting me.

And in his marriage photos that I found on the internet are also his honeymoon photos, which meant that when he was in Thailand, he was on his honeymoon, which made me feel absolutely sick to my stomach. Once I found all this and I decided to reach out to him and I played nice. I played it off. I was like, I know we broke up, but I think that we should have a closure talk because I think we...

are owed this after the intense relationship that we've had. And he replied back and he was like, I totally agree. And I texted him this at like 5.30 in the morning. So he was up and he was like, I have not been able to sleep for the last couple of days. I'm losing it. I'm super upset. And I was like, yeah, me neither. And he's like, I would love to talk. I'll come over. It's like, okay.

He comes over. He was there by 6 a.m. I have a screened-in porch, and I'm sitting on my porch with a bottle of whiskey and two shot glasses in front of me, and I'm drinking out of one of them, and it's 6 a.m., so we know that that's not a good sign. You could tell. He knows something's up. And he walks in on the porch, and he's like, okay, what's going on? And I was like, I know. And he was like, what do you mean? I was like, I know. I know everything.

He was like, well, you got to tell me. What is it that you know? And I wish I had made him say it, but I was too on an emotional high after pacing my house for three hours, finding out that he was married and being sick over the fact that I've been sleeping and living with a married man. I was like, I know that you're married. I know that you have a wife. I found your photos. I found them on a profile that exists for you.

I found a business professional profile for him that was for a profession I didn't know he was involved in. There was a write-up about him.

And in the write-up, it had photos of him and his wife. So that's how I figured out that he was married. Then it had photos of him and his wife in Thailand, which is how I figured out that that was his honeymoon. Then I did a little backtracking and I was able to find his wife and found out that he got married...

two months before meeting me and then went on his honeymoon two months after. It was a later honeymoon. But yeah, that was their honeymoon, which was disgusting. That's just so next level. I cannot. Also, this was his honeymoon. We sexted. Like I said, we FaceTimed.

There's moments where he would be like, my brother's in the other room. We have to be quiet. Not his brother. His wife's in the other room. We have to be quiet. Motherfuck. So fucked up. So fucked up. So beyond. Yeah. So I'm like, I know everything. And he's like, what do you know? I was like, I know everything. I know now. I figured it out. I could see his face drop. I could see him go...

He was like, well, what do you know? And I really wanted to make him say it, but I was too on a high that I pushed forward. And I was like, I know that you're married. I know that you're married. I found your profile. I found your wedding photos on there. I know that you're married. He just sits down and he puts his head in his hands. And he was like, fuck. He was like, I can explain. And I'm like, I don't know how, but you can try. He was like, look, look.

My wife, he's like, yes, I am married. I am married. That's been why...

I have been freaking out and I've been trying to leave and why you haven't met Ruth yet. I was really confused because I had spoken to people in his life. I'd spoken to Ruth's mom. I'd heard her on the phone and family members and things like that. I'd seen text messages. They wished me happy birthdays. I heard from them. I was confused because I was like, people in your life know about me.

So you're married. How do they know about me? He was like, yeah, they know about you. He was like, that's exactly why you haven't met Ruth yet. Because her mom thinks the situation's real fucked up and she keeps canceling. He's like, I've admittedly canceled a couple times because it's a mess. I know I didn't tell you about my wife and I'm so sorry. He's like, she cheated on me a month after our wedding with one of her coworkers.

And after that happened, it destroyed me and I couldn't get over it. When I set up the nanny position and you and I started chatting, I didn't expect us to start hitting it off. Then we did. Then I met you in person and I thought, well, one night, like, my wife did it to me. What's one night? It can't hurt. He's like, but...

I couldn't get more than one night with you. After that, I was totally hooked. I wanted to keep seeing you. And then it just got out of hand. And then it just got way further than I meant for it to get. Then once it got so far, I couldn't tell you because what? I tell you, hi, I've been lying to you for a year. I have a wife. You're going to leave and I'm going to lose you.

I didn't know how to approach any of this. I was hoping my wife was going to leave me. I'm never home. I never talk to her. I'm constantly in contact with you. I thought she would leave me at this point. She travels for work all the time. We are like a business relationship at best. I didn't know what to do. I got so lost in this and I fell so in love with you. It was just so much. Then on top of it, everything else that we had going on, I just didn't know what to do.

I sat there and I listened to him and I was obviously pissed. I'm fuming. He's saying everything that has happened in your relationship is real and sincere, except that he is unhappily married. Yes, he is married. That's the only thing so far.

I always tell people when I say this story, you think you've gotten to the end, but then it gets worse. You think you've hit the turning point and then it turns on you again. Hell yeah, it is so true. You're like, oh, this fucker has to be done. Nope, he's not done. Yep, you think you've hit the climax, then it keeps going. This is crazy.

I literally have to preface that to everybody I speak to. I'm like, you're going to think we've hit the crazy part of the story and then it's going to get crazier. Yeah.

He's saying all this to me and I'm very upset. I'm more angry than anything. I'm not sitting there crying or whatever. That's just not really my style. I'm very much someone when I decide I'm done with somebody, I can just write them off. I'm sitting there thinking, what am I going to do? What are we going to do here? Because what's going on in my head is that I very much love this person still. This happened essentially in a four-day span.

It was scary with the cancer, but we had just had a great year together. A stressful year before that, but that stressful year brought us really close. And then a good year. Now we're dealing with this cancer thing and I've been taking care of him and I still love him. He's still my best friend. We have a ton of fun together and I love being around him. That doesn't just go away in four days.

He is saying, if you give me the chance, now that you know, I will divorce her. I will start the divorce process literally today. I will show you everything. I will show you the paperwork. I will prove it to you. Everything. I am crazy about you and I know that you know that.

He did show that. That was our relationship. We were highly sexual. We were laughing. He was always giving me gifts. We were always on a high. And I've never experienced a relationship like this. You get that in the honeymoon stage, sure. And then it fades away. But we're at almost two years and we've gone through and I still feel this way when I'm around this person. I'm like, okay, whatever.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to think about it. I'm going to talk to one of my friends and figure out what I think is best for me. We go our separate ways that day. He tells me that regardless of whether I'm staying or not, he is still going to move forward with this divorce because he feels like it's the right thing to do because he has clearly been a terrible husband who has not been invested in this relationship at all. And this needed to happen. Something needed to come to a head and he was happy that it finally did. I was like, good. I applaud that.

The next morning, she texted me first thing in the morning, like super early, which is also unlike her. And she was like, I'm coming over. I have to talk to you. She came over right away and she was like, Joe's married.

I instantly leave and go to Harper's house. I'm like, I need to talk to you right now. She's like, oh God, what's happening? And I'm like, we gotta chat. This is what I found out last night. And he came over this morning and I have a lot to tell you. She's like, oh my God. She's pouring wine already. She's like, this is a lot to take in. She's like, fuck this guy. You're gonna never talk to him again, right? I was like, I don't know. She was like, are you kidding? I'm like, no, I'm not because-

You don't just stop loving somebody instantly. This is all happened basically overnight. He says he's going to leave her and I kind of want to see if he's gonna. I know that usually people in these situations don't, but if it wasn't for the fact that our relationship was so on fire, I really do think he's gonna. Lastly, and this is for me, he has cancer right now. And how do I feel about leaving somebody with cancer? How do I feel about that?

Because I don't feel good about that. He has treatment for the next three months. I can leave him in three months. What's another three months going to do to me in my life at this point? If we get to the other side of this,

and he's better and everything's fine. And then I realized I really can never trust you again. And I was hoping we could get this back, but we can't. Then I'll know that I absolutely tried my hardest and I stayed and I was the best version of myself and the best that I could be. But I cannot leave a man with cancer. I just can't do it. I was like, I'm going to try and stay. It might not be permanently, but for now I'm going to stay. Harper was great. She was like, I am

I am your friend and I will support you in anything that you need. I definitely hate this man right now, but I see why you feel that way and I support you.

I mean, he was living with Kenzie at that point, so it made sense that he could have been married and separated or going through a divorce. And he told Kenzie that he was going to leave her. He wanted to be with Kenzie. He wanted to start a life with her, that he would prove that he wanted to. And at this point, I just, I was over him. I didn't think it was a safe space. But, you know, she was always happy with Joe. He was charismatic. He treated her well.

At this point, I was the only person who knew that Joe was married. And Kenzie, she was choosing at that point to stay with him. So she didn't want the rest of our friends to know that information. I think she was like trying to figure out what she wanted to do first before she let everyone else in.

I come back to him later that day and I was like, I'll stay, but you have to show me everything. I need to see that whenever you're texting or calling her, I need to see the divorce processes unfolding. I need to see absolutely everything. And he was like, yep, not a problem. He called her that day. She was out traveling for work, which is why he was able to come to my place so early. Oh, also to backtrack, when I'm sitting on the porch with him, I'm saying, well, WIPRO is obviously not real, right?

You use this as a cover because you're married. He's like, no, Wipro's real. That's absolutely real. I'm married and it helped my situation, but it's real. You've seen stuff. He's showing me calls and texts with him and his wife. He's like, I told her to come home. She's out traveling. And when she gets home, we need to have a serious talk because I think our marriage is crumbling.

She doesn't come home for another two days, which I thought was weird. I remember being like, if you really cared, I feel like you would hop on a goddamn flight and be there. If my husband was like, our marriage is crumbling, we need to talk, I would drop my work and be there. That's just me, but I don't know. She comes back two days later and he's like, I'm gonna go have a talk with her. In between this, he...

He's here at home with me. We're still dealing with his radiation. And he is falling the fuck apart. He is telling me how he feels guilty, how he feels awful for ruining his marriage. I'm asking a ton of questions about his wife. What's she like? What is their daily life like? I'm somebody who wants to know everything. I'm asking a million questions. I love her.

I literally asked what her favorite TV show was. I was like, tell me everything. I want to know who she is. Because I'm just trying to understand. Basically, he set up a totally different dynamic with her and I where he said him and her were very business and they weren't very affectionate or loving. And him and I were very affectionate and loving. She didn't expect him to text her all the time or call her all the time or things like that, where that's how him and I communicated constantly. Yeah.

When he was around her, he would say he was doing business, but he was really messaging me. When he was around me, he ignored her. He never had his phone out when he was with me. They're in mediation and they're working through things. Mediation is pretty involved because he has a lot of assets. He's wealthy. He's got a lot of money in the bank and whatnot. I've seen his bank accounts and stuff. So he has to work through all that.

Is he showing you proof of the divorce stuff as he said he would, like paperwork? Yes. He is coming home with paperwork, signed paperwork, stuff about their mediation and things they're going through. I'm like, cool, great. He's FaceTiming me wherever he's at. I'm seeing where he is and sending screenshots of anything that I need to see if there's conversations or whatnot. I'm being very involved, feeling pretty good about it.

I'm also watching him emotionally break down as he's going through it. He's not coming home and celebrating. He's not coming home and being like, we can finally be there. Yay. He's like, this is really hard. I've never gone through a divorce. I'm having a hard time. I'm really upset about it. I feel terrible. All of these things.

At that point is when a friend group was starting to be more weary of him as the lies continued and as things escalated and got weirder and weirder and the stories just grew. I kind of initially thought I was alone on this. How do you bring up to people? I think he's lying about cancer. I kept that to myself. Maybe I'm being paranoid. You go into a phase of denial where you're like, no, no, no one would. That can't be true. I have to be overreacted.

I remember I went to hang out with some of our other friends. I was with Charlotte, Harper, and another friend. I don't think Kenzie could go that night. And somehow Joe got brought up and one of our friends made kind of a look, like a passing look. And I was like, why, what's up? Charlotte mentioned, it's just kind of fishy. And as soon as that got out, I was like, okay, so I am not the only one

that thinks something's weird, right? And that's when we all sat together being like, yeah, this is weird. Like something's up. Charlotte had said, I'm pretty sure I found a mutual acquaintance that we have on Instagram. And at that point, I'm like, well, how'd you find Joe's Instagram? And Harper at that point was like, I actually found his real name.

Or at least he's saying it was his old name that Witness Protection has now changed his name to Joe. And she was like, I found that name and I found some inconsistencies. Sites saying he's a... And to us, Joe worked in the entertainment industry. So I was like, that's strange. Charlotte was like, something's off. Something's really off with that dude. And we kind of just left that night being like,

he's lying. Like he's lying about something. It could be everything. I remember I went home and I was talking to my fiance and I was like, I'm not sure how to really like put this into words of why I think this, but I think Joe's lying. And he kind of just looked, you know, a little shocked. He's like, what do you mean? And I was like, he's, he's lying about something.

And so I had told him what I had heard from Charlotte and Harper. And he just kind of looked at me really stunned, being like, holy shit, I think you guys are right. He's like, how did we not see this? I'm like, it's because we're not close to him. From afar, it's fine. But then when you actually start comparing receipts with people and start laying it down, it's like, ooh, ooh, that's something's like kind of, something's fishy right there.

Because, I mean, that cancer diagnosis was being handled as if, you know, this was the president telling us that he was deathly ill and needed immediate attention. All of us have had at least, or know somebody with cancer. We all know, like, it's a long, drawn-out process. Even just getting the first treatment scheduled for whatever treatment you need, like, it takes time. But for him, as soon as he got it, he got the immediate doctor appointment. He got...

the plan together almost within like a week or two. When I was telling my fiance this, he was just like, oh my God. Yeah. I think you guys are right. I think something's up with that dude. And unfortunately at the time we weren't really seeing him, but there wasn't any like hardcore proof. It was this weird kind of like moment of, you just got to wait and see it play out because you know, there's also that chance of what if we're all wrong?

I don't want to sit here and tell Kenzie, something's strange with your dude. I have no proof, but something's weird. Especially if it's like, well, he has cancer now after he has PTSD, then it's witness protection. It was like an accumulation of all of this speculation. When I first heard about the witness protection, there was a part in my mind that

that it's obviously a flag. It's so hard to believe. But at the same time, from her, you're hearing, oh, he's being dropped off. It makes sense that he's not being as vulnerable. And I did my light Google searching. Now looking back, I think I always kind of had a little bit of an eye out for him. But I was like, you know, the truth will come out. We can wait for the gag order.

on the case and eventually that will be over and then it will become public and then we'll learn the real details. And then that got delayed, but then the details weren't released because they were trying to like exit the program and then it would eventually be revealed. In my mind, I kept being like, all right, we're going to do this.

wait and see what happens in their relationship. He was kind of always a mystery because of the pandemic. You can't see him, interact with him all the time. I probably frequently Googled him, which sounds psychopathic. He would reveal something that he would be doing, and then curiosity would happen once we left hanging out with him, and I tried to do a search.

Things made sense when you were being told them and then you'd leave and go, but what about this? You're hearing about these movies. I really tried to start looking. There was no information I could find.

My curiosity was starting to spike. We knew Joe had a show that he had sold. And it had been going into production and it was going to have a premiere. And when I talked to Kenzie, she was like, I'm really excited to go to a big premiere for something. This is something with well-known directors and some big actors. Once the suspicion was there,

I Google searched the hell out of this show that he made. He had told us what network he had sold it to. I couldn't find it on any of their lineups or announcements for new shows, which all of those networks, they usually do a big release of the new seasons of things or what's new. I couldn't find it anywhere on the network. I looked up the director he said was tied to it. Nothing. I looked up the headline actor that he said was attached to it.

Nothing. I think he's lying about more, but definitely about his show. When Joe told us the title, my fiancé had some obscure knowledge and recognized the title.

and asked him like, oh, is this the remake of this old French show that you just named? And he looked surprised. He was like, no, I named it myself. He's like, oh, you know, I could have sworn this was like an old like French TV show back in the day.

Kenzie had later told me, she's like, oh yeah, you know, Joe looked that up and he didn't even realize that was the show's name. But no, it's not related. At the time, it's like, eh, things can be named the same thing. It's not, you know, the worst. Or it happens as well. And the next time me and the fiance saw him, he was like, yeah, I didn't realize it was the show because I thought you were just kind of being an asshole saying, is it from this show? Are you recreating this show?

He kind of bit down on that one conversation. It's not that big of a deal. We're not commenting on your actual, your show, your writing or anything like that. It was a comment. And then shortly after the cancer diagnosis, Kenzie had told me with all of this, I don't know if we're going to make the premiere. And at the time I was like, oh, okay.

That really sucks because I know you were looking forward to that. And I'm sure Joe was. She was like, yeah, well, they're talking about possibly postponing it because of the cancer diagnosis. And they're talking about maybe moving the location. And to me, there is no way in hell anyone from Hollywood, when that much money has been sunk into something like a show, that they wouldn't have...

promo images, promo posters, a date already set with a network to premiere, like the time slot alone, there's no way in hell they are going to care enough for some unknown person

writer slash director because of his cancer diagnosis. They're not going to pause everything. There's so much money tied into this for other people. I think at that point, it's like, we'll give you a shout out, but that's it. It at least kind of solidified my belief in he's definitely lying. I know he's lying about his job. Maybe not what he actually does, but at the same time, he's lying about the success level, at least, and this whole show.

And we kind of all chatted like, yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about him. We're able to communicate that and share information that we had heard from one another and from him. And what really set it off was finding out his real name, which came from Harper through like her due diligence. I think we're all at a party together.

And that's when Harper had shared that she found his real name. I had heard briefly, but she didn't tell me his name and I couldn't remember it because we were at a party. And then I found out that they like got back together. And when I had seen Harper again, she told me his real name and I

You know, when you Googled it, the sites were miraculously down. So it added validity again to his witness protection. The page on the site was live. And then as soon as they found out, it went down. I was like, well, you know, if I was a real company, I'd probably do features. I would tag them or maybe there's videos or maybe there's like office things or something like that.

And I went to the Instagram feed that they have. And sure enough, right there, they do features. And I was like, great. Probably won't be able to find anything here. I mean, who wants to scroll through so many images to see someone tagged? And would he be tagged? Then they did features and would have like...

family photos, photos of them out on the field. And I think I probably scrolled maybe three, like four, you know, when you have like the gallery view and you scroll down, I think I probably did four scrolls down and there he was, his face, everything right there.

That's next time on Something Was Wrong. The last two episodes of Season 12 will be dropping in your feed Thursday, April 28th. Thank you so much for listening. Until next week, stay safe, friends. Something Was Wrong is an Audiochuck production created and hosted by Tiffany Reis.

Our theme song was composed by Glad Rags from their album Wonder Under. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. She struck him with her motor vehicle. She had been under the influence and then she left him there.

In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask.

Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover-up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion.

And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.