S14 E14: WCN Presents: [Kaylan & Melissa] SWW S14 Updates // Part 2
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As we shared in part one of the something was wrong season fourteen updates, season fourteen of something was wrong began erring on october twenty of two thousand twenty two, and the last episode air on january third twenty twenty three. The season highlighted the narratives of keen melisa and Sarah, and they are very toxic, abusive relationships with a man named jake, as well as the abuse their children faced at his hands.

As the season progressed, IT included several accounts from other victims and acquaintances of jail as well. Jack continued to leverage his professional connections in the media to add validity to his dating presence, and in turn victimized over forty women in and around the seattle area on december thirteenth twenty twenty two. The guests of season fourteen also participated and say something was wrong live event with tifany, on which they discussed the impact of the season and answered some listeners questions.

One week later, a petition was created to call for jake to face criminal accountability. And despite the fact that less than a year has passed since its release, quite a lot has happened since the broken cycle. Media team is so grateful for canon, Melissa and seras involvement as well as the rest of the guest and six and fourteen and the impact they are sharing has made. We are also grateful to host this conversation with and Melissa about all that come next since season fourteen has air.

One of the amazing things that came out of these women sharing their stories beyond finding more survivors, seeing the reaction to the petition and how many signatures that we got thirty one thousand six hundred and forty two as of today. And we started IT on december twenty first, twenty twenty two. I just think that's fantastic for a supporting the survival standpoint. I just thought I was really rewarding form survivors to see that support.

The judge had said initially, yeah, he is dangerous to you. That's why they gave me a restraining order, but they said that he was not a danger to emerson. IT is so backwards these judges, there should be a continuing education for them around personality disorders, abuse, domus, violence.

He has absolutely no impulse control that something i've known for a long time. So that's really scary when you're sending child with somebody that has no impulse control. But most family court judges don't have the education or the training in domestic violence, and the court does not account for narcy stic behavior.

I think that there is a misconception of parenting plans, and child, for people that don't have children, don't quite understand like what, why are you so letting him have visitation? Well, I went back and tried really hard multiple times to get him to just have to have supervise. This is because I was scared.

He only had her for six hours at a time and could exercise that four days out of the month. But even still, he would come like once a year around that. But he was matin for emerson.

But I did not have a choice because I would be held in contempt. Had I not allowed the visit, I could potentially get find, lose custody. All sorts of terrible things could have happened.

You don't have the option to just not CoOperate. You either CoOperate, you get in real big trouble and potentially lose your children. In my case, if he ever did come, then we could kind of work through IT and therapy. IT was really hard.

Her therapies SHE sent me a statement arguing no vision would be best for her, which I was a little bit surprised because I feel like the courts will do anything to keep the with the parent, whether it's supervised or just regular visitation, they very really will terminate rights or terminate visitation. In my situation, I went to the judge. I was asking for supervised visits.

The judge looked at me and said, he's not coming anyway. I don't know why you're here. And I said, yeah, but he can come. And it's so tram sizing. I tried to explain that I complex.

B, T, S, C, and that is so hard every month, my panicky, because he has to tell me by the fifteen s of each month. And every new month, I stressed out until the fifteen s because he could tell me that he's coming and it's scary. And jack actually showed up to that court hearing, but probably because he showed up, the judge threw out.

He just dismissed IT. And so IT wasn't until he hit ivy that he agreed to no contact, no visitation. I've went and filed bright away because he said he would agree to whatever I wanted.

Honestly, I wrestled with IT for so long, like, oh, did I make the right decision because I don't ever want her to hold resentment for allowing her to have a relationship with her dad. But the fact in this scenario is her dad is not a safe person. And so I made the decision he needed to be out of our lives completely.

I think that that is the best decision I ever made. IT took the instagram account and going on the podcast to really, they said that for me, yes, that was the best decision I ever made, and he is so much more dangerous than I ever imagined. I did call and file a police report for him raping me before I left seattle.

Just to be clear, even saying that is hard, I have never considered myself a rape survivor, and I would much rather the seattle police department not spend time on me per say. I just wanted IT in their documented in case anybody else comes forward, so that there is a history of IT. But I told them at that time, I don't want anything to be done.

I just want this recorded so that you have something on file for him with sexual abuse. I was given an advocate. SHE basically was like, I don't understand why you weren't provided an advocate when you first went to court.

There is clearly domestic violence, financial abuse, sexual abuse. I shouldn't had to go to court without an ambitious. I definitely wish I had one. At the time, I had a lawyer, so I felt a little bit safer. But at the same time, he would still do all sorts of terrible things that I feel like should have matter to the court.

When I came to custody, we definitely talked about IT in the live event, but I think that family court cares more about parental rights over child safety and welfare. A hard thing to here when you're a parent and you're so worried about this person getting visit. And with a Young child, jay took me back to court to lower the child sport.

So as IT stands right now, we haven't been back to court since he signed everything over after the first child sports order. So that order went through when he was three SHE will be thirteen next month. The amount was set at six fifty year.

There were several years he just paid next to nothing going in the court. He was behind twenty three thousand dollars when he filed to lower his children's support. He has to provide me six months of being going through that.

I don't have a false six months, but they don't even care. I feel like that should matter. IT didn't, but there were so many demo deposits into his bank account that were like five hundred, six hundred dollars at a time.

So he has money in these other accounts that he's putting into his account when he needs money. But he isn't providing those pink accounts to the courts to show what the baLance is in his paypal or his van. Cash up.

People can use those accounts to stock pile money that they don't have to provide proof of. I know that he's still is getting money from petr on users. It's not a lot, he says. Now he doesn't make any money from photography, but I know that he's been paid in paypal and in vo or in cash prior. So this is what I try to explain to the judge.

He's making all these deposits and he said, okay, show me where is making the deposite so I showed the first one that comes up in his financial, and it's a five hundred dollar ban. Mo, from himself to his bank account. He said, oh, that is from o mary paying me out.

IT was a one time thing. And then the judges moved on studying court proceedings. Judges definitely don't like IT when you point things out. So it's one of those things where you have to tread lightly.

The prosecutor for the state, SHE, came out with a really opening argument that I really thought that they were gonna not lower my child's for and or inputs him at the growth medium because there is financial abuse. And he said that there is a history, three of IT, so I not evenly assume they will take this in the consideration. This is where is like, I wear the same brand of clothing and shoes, quite literally, for everything except for socks and underwear, is there are the purchases you will see from north face outlet.

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Are you joking me? You're telling me that you had to spend five hundred dollars a month at north face because you have to buy close from there. However, when IT comes to my child, there were times before I was married to my husband and I was a single mom that I could barely feed us.

And here he is like, this is why I can spend five hundred dollars a month. I'm saving the planet. Come on.

That's his justification for spending five hundred dollars month after month at north way because he's helping the planet or he can't take Better jobs because that interferes with his exercise routine.

Before we went to court, he was working with the contempt team where he needs to pay x amount dollars each month for all the kids. IT was just like one lumpsum of child support so that he didn't go to jail. That was seven hundred dollars.

And that wasn't something that we all agreed on. IT was something that they agreed on with him without us. This is after he's posted online.

I've made more this year than i've ever made in its like, okay, then why aren't they making you pay your full amount and child support? So when we went back to court for him to lower my child for the prosecutor, SHE did come out him pretty hard. It's good to have all the in public record what his history is.

He said that he's been working with the child's support contempt team, that he's been making regular payments with them. But when SHE reviewed our whole history that his payments were very infrequent and he rarely paid the full amount, SHE brought that the debt for just my case was twenty three thousand dollars. SHE brought up how difficult IT is to assess his income.

Because he does freeLance work and jumps from project to project. He never sticks with the same thing for a long term. He's had a photography business, a marketing and production business.

He sells things on drugs list, and he was a hairstyles. And at that time he was choosing not to pursue that. He said that he appears to prefer jobs where garnishment is a chAllenge or completely unavailable, the prosecute said.

We do have some history, in this case, of financial abuse and manipulation that should be taken into consideration. And SHE also said that there is a history of him living off one girlfriend after another after another, and has been extremely selective in the work that he does. All of these things the state currently considers to be a luxury.

In this case, the state's position is, when you are legally responsible for supporting a child, your first obligation is to get steady money in the door. IT really is a luxury that few people can afford to make sure that their job fits all of their needs, making sure that they're happy and that they're being creatively stimulated. The father is creating a pattern of not entirely invading child sport, but evading the full payment of child sport.

After her opening argument, he did say he was hoping this would create special circumstances so that even if they went with the lower amount, which was four twenty one, so from six fifty for twenty one, that he would have to pay an additional amount to go to the back amount because IT was so large. So we go through the whole court proceeding. It's quite a while.

We both have our camera zone. We can see each other. That was uncomfortable because I obviously don't want him to see me.

He basically blamed moleson knife for ruining his life. He didn't bring up that he lives with his girlfriend and their son. With that said, I worry that sign is potentially in danger of his temper.

In the final borders, the official judgment is they lowered IT to four twenty one from six fifty, but he has to pay an additional one hundred and fifty dollars each month that goes toward the back amount. I think the prosecutor wasn't fully aware that this is not possible for you to go to me alone. So I see seventy seven dollars of IT and the rest of IT goes to milita and the other mom. The court took judicial notice of the fact that the father O S excessive twenty three thousand dollars back child sport in this case alone. Therefore, the transfer payment will be a total of five seventy one each month until further ordered by the court, which means he now has to pay eight hundred and fifty dollars each month instead of the seven hundred, and that he was being told he had to pay.

I was going to ask, does he have to pay off the twenty three thousand dollars until he is eighteen forever?

It's actually forever. He has to pay because he agreed to wave. Normally IT would be until they graduate from high school.

But in order for him to get his passport, he said, all until whenever, so long as I can get my passport, that actually really worked in our favor because he does only me so much money that he's going to be paying IT probably for the rest of his life. He has to your home, go to jail. But each state is different. Let's been with contempt of court already for the last three years or something. It's been longer than that because I was twenty twenty .

with the prosecutors office, right?

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Rake preventively, this credited us so that he would be the victim, so that when something did happen, then nobody believed us.

One of the unfortunate truth is abusers often hide, pretending to be the victim. I think that's one of the things that kept calling, and I so silent for so many years, he preventively had made himself out to be the, we all had the narratives attach to us. Clean was the bitter crazy egg I was. The obsess stocker mini was the abuser. He had these narratives to who we were.

And he preemptively convinced everyone that he was a victim of us so that if we did go to them and tell them the truth, they think we're the abuse er and they think he's a victim I think in a way that is a hard conversation to have because those people believe that he was a victim, they didn't question him. I don't know the right way to have that conversation, but the truth is that sometimes abused ers do hide as victims and it's another way that they further victimize their true victims. I think that would be a good little way into the M, X, P, X stuff because it's exactly what jake did.

He played himself to be the victim to so many different people that we stopped even trying to like speak out in his court statement with kline's child support staff. He actually talked about how we've had this decade long campaign against him. I kind of laughed that because calling and I, for the most part, we never spoke out publicly against him.

The instagram was the first time that we publicly shared our stories. We weren't sharing that online. We weren't running around telling people the last person that we tried to warn was me.

I, the only other person that we tried to warn was my career from M. X. P. X. Klans boyfriend had connection to him.

We were concerned because jack had already assaulted iva at that point, and mike was bringing jake and to stay at his house around his little, tiny kids. And we thought, a man, if that was me, I wouldn't want someone to tell me that this person isn't safe. IT was absolutely ridiculous.

The response, the response was that they already knew about that at the time. And so this was nothing new. They were kind of expecting to hear from us, and that he had been blackmailed by us into pleading guilty. The most shocking .

part to me was, within the first few sentences, I recall IT saying something to the tune. We've been expecting this message. I just thought, wow, that's your opener.

IT was so invita red. This was his manager at the time that responded right, not him himself. Just to be clear.

they are talking to the manager. And then I spoke with somebody else in the beyond and they said, here's what happened. He said something prior. He said that you guys blackmailed him into pleading guilty.

and he feared for his life. He framed IT as he didn't even commit the crime that one of us actually hit her. And we framed him.

And I was like, that's the crazy, should I ve ever heard? And I sent them all of the core paperwork. He said he was gone to show the rest of them. But jack still was around. Michaela has never ever come forward and said anything about jack ever.

or responded to my request for comment. To be clear, I did reach out them and he did not respond.

But I think IT shows what he would do, preemptively discredit or say that I was crazy here. I'm just mad because he cheated on me and got somebody else. No, i'm concerned that you're gonna do what you did to meet to somebody else or i'm concerned that you're going for another child. I just think it's one of those things where IT keeps the actual person has been abused or the victim quiet because they learn really quick that if they say something, they're not going to be believed because that person has already come up with a story ahead of time.

One tactic that I recently learned about that a lot of nurses is especially cursive narsisi abuse ers uses called darva and IT means deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Jake loves this. Basically, it's a consistent reaction and manipulation tactic used by perpetrators of abuse or other types of wrongdoing. IT works by shifting the focus away from the original issue and attacking the actual victim. IT attempts to switch the rules of the victim and the perpetrator to allow the actual offender to receive sympathy and compassion publicly or privately, as well as to avoid consequences for their actions, denied attack, reverse victim and offender.

I can't tell you the amount of times that I heard something like that, and I was like, holy shit, that's what he did. They are like the colors of each other narsisi. But that's one of those things. We're even just reading that it's so I opening and it's a reminder that i'm still learning so much and I feel like I know a lot about this subject, but then I hear something like this and I like, of course.

while on the topic I saw this tiktok that was shared on instagram and its by a therapy called your understood pocket underscore therapies and she's talking about why and I think this can be applicable here. One of the reasons that is hard to walk away from emotionally unavailable people is that you get this dope in response. That's really uneven.

The example SHE gives somebody pulling a slot machine. You sit there and you pull and you pull IT and you pull IT. And then when you find when you get this huge Spike of doping, and that is more physically addicting to your body than somebody giving you consistent love, slashed open mine over a steady period of time with secure attachment. That's what makes IT so difficult often times for people to break out of the cycles with an emotionally unavailable or abusive person. Not only just all the manipulation tactics of the abuse tactics that we're discussing here, but also those physical manifestations, the literal dopamine in released, that you get when that person text you, or when they call you the way they make you feel in between those moments where they are gas lighting, you are ignoring, you physically has effects on your body. We're always learning about that science.

To the end of what Tiffany was saying, my therapy told me it's very similar to what the brain goes through, like with a gambling addiction, people in abusive relationships, it's almost like the same type addiction. They would start teaching these mice to, like, press a button to get a piece of food. And when they first started, they get one piece of food for every time they would press this button with their nose.

Then over time, they would make IT. So IT did IT only every other time. And then like every five times, and then twenty times, they would did this over and over again and tell they were literally up to where this mouse would have to press this button like hundreds of times to get one piece of food.

And they were hurting themselves, pressing this button for that one payout of that one piece of food, because they were now addicted to this process. I did something to their brains were, now it's an addiction. The pale is such a high that it's worth IT for them to hurt themselves over and over and over again for that one pay of that one small piece of food.

Also, what you're describing, that behavior modification, in essence, what they're doing is, are grooming us to stay in that narcisa relationship. And not only is an addiction if you're looking at at one way, but also most like they're modifying and in raining that behavior.

there's all these different ways that abuse and different attachment styles can really influence the way impacts victims in the reasons why the average time of leaving is seven times before someone gets out of an abusive relationship, if they're lucky.

Absolutely, but I think that was so great about this podcast. We learned so much. I know I learned so much from what medicus there, apis, solder IT.

But think about all the people that are in situations like I was in that are seeing a therapist and that therapies doesn't know anything about narses is I don't think that there is very many therapists, unfortunately, that understand this behavior. The less so into therapy. And he was able to learn all these things about narai and gas lighting.

But I went to therapy at the same time, and my therapies knew nothing about that. I think, in general, we understand the terms. But do we always know what to look for? Or do we always know why we are doing certain things? The education pieces were still learning so much.

I'm really lucky because I haven't had any contact with him. It's almost seven years now. The last contact indirectly that I had was right before live event, which I don't know why the live event was such a thorn in his side.

He didn't seem to have a problem with the actual podcast, but us going on that life was too much for him. So that was the last actual interaction count wise that i've hand with him. I did want to talk about that we have had more people reach out to us, the podcast aired.

We've had other women come forward. We've had some of his former co workers. I even had a couple of his friends from high school reach out more of those stories of I had about experience with him and ended our friendship and never really thought about IT again.

IT really speaks to the type of person that he is that he's been pulling stuff like this, just screwing people over for so many decades. One of the women that had contacted us, SHE, had an ongoing on and off casual relationship that went on for over a decade through all of this. So we kind of know that there is still probably so many women out there that we probably will never even know about.

I can't even imagine the scope of how far his reach was, but i'm just thankful that the information is out there. Now we don't have to continue to tell our stories over and over again. It's out there.

He can't run from IT he can't hide from IT you google ham. All of this comes up. The change petition comes up. The stranger article comes up. All of IT comes up.

There's nothing that he can do, that he can hide from, that he can try and change his name from jake to jack up, but still comes up so he can't lie about all of this stuff the way that he did before. I think on some level, he's always going to be manipulating people, and we can't obviously stop all of that, but we were able to put the truth out there. At the very least, anybody that is googling him can now make an informed decision about who he is.

I noticed a major difference in myself when I was in seattle last. I went in August with my husband. I had been a couple times prior to that after I moved, but this was the first time i'd been back and fell safe.

I think part of that is having my husband with me, but I do think that I wasn't as anxious. I wasn't looking over my shoulder. I wasn't like, oh my god, what if I see him, or is he gonna track me down? I just didn't feel scared anymore, and I think IT came from sharing my story. I didn't have as much of a hold on me anymore .

this season. On a personal note, working on IT with the survivors and the relationships that I got to build with them, the trust we are able to build and the care that they brought, IT was one of the joys of my lifetime from a creator. Same point.

They were like the dream to work with, both professionally and personally. You want everybody to get IT and support them the way that I feel that they deserve to be supported. And IT was hard to see them grappling with those things, but they're so strong.

I feel like their strength and their ability to take people's public opinions in stride and continue to know who they were and stay centered and who they are was extremely inspiring to me and helped contribute to me having the nerve to share my own story on my season later. So you're not only strong for what you survive and brave for being able to tell IT. IT takes a very strong, brave person, and a lot of people were moved and inspired by that. I don't think you'll ever even be capable to know the full extent of the positive impact that you have made. I just want to say that is one of the joys of my life, working together with you guys on this season.

The best part of all of this is that my daughter has anties in all of you, and a that he just has more people that love her. And with her background with jake, I feel like the more people that are in her life loving on her, the Better and incredibly proud of her. SHE just started seventh grade and is volunteering at the library, is doing A S P.

And is in all honnor classes, has strates and she's just questioning IT. She's empathetic and it's a testiment to all the people that are around her that i've helps raise her, that that has overshadowed any type of nature that might come through. No, she's fantastic.

He is an incredible little human being, killing miles a year, both just incredible parents. And I get to not only to you, but your children and the incredible mothers and parents you are. You have such a fantastic community, and I know that this a million times, but I just love the way that you keeps them in each other others' lives and really Foster that relationship. That human connection and support is so important and has far reaching positive effects, not only to them, but I think the world and just other people who also get to see IT and how beautiful IT is.

Yeah, i'm really thankful for the whole community that our girls have. It's a hard situation for them to grow up, and they're gonna live within this forever. But I feel like the positive so far out with negative that is come from IT.

The relationship that emerson and ivy have is so wholesome and healthy. They love each other so much. And i'm just so thankful to kalin that we can continue to Foster that and help IT grow. I can't say enough positive about the community that we've created.

especially for the girls that so powerful. And I also think that speaks to what you did for the other people that were messaging you in your sharing. Not only did you bring awareness here, friends and family, and they might navigate other relationships differently with more awareness, but you also gave that gift to other people.

Not everybody can share their experiences on a podcast. Got themselves. Lay all this out there.

Those people messaging you. That was their liberation in sharing. Look how much freedom you've caused in that.

Thank you guys, again, so much for being willing to do this. And thank you for being in my life. One of the greatest things about being able to share my own story after doing the season with you all was being able to receive yours love and support.

Whether be seeing you guys in person and you sharing a kind word or sending me a text message or a SHE link be with us busy work schedule, shout out to Sarah SHE d send me attacks, just checking on me throughout the season IT means an incredible amount to me. And I know amy is gotten to get together in person and yolk now, friends as well. And it's a really, really beautiful park of a very shady, traumatic situation.

I just feel incredibly blessed to have you all in my life honored still to this day that you trust me to do this with you. I'm going to get emotional. But I recently saw those street interviews that you see on instagram.

And IT was the strate interviewer asking this random dude, what's the weird thing that happened to you? And that was this Young kid, and he had had a traumatic brain injury, some kind, and he was in a comment, he literally died for several minutes and came back to life. And he's like, twenty six years old.

And this guy is like, wow, totally caught off gardens. Like, can you explain the people who have never experienced that? What happened to when you died? He was like, there was the warm light.

But I saw this video presentation of every happy moment that flash before my eyes in my life. I didn't think about anything negative or any regrets. I just saw all the people who made me feel the best in the warmest, the highlights my life in the best part, and you guys are part of that.

I truly mean that in the most genuine way. I just think what you have done, not only for me, but the universe is very significant. There is not enough. Thank you in the world.

I think that we all feel the same, really grateful that we were able to accomplish what we set out for, and we couldn't have done that without you.

It's a privilege. You guys are amazing people and it's just wild that something so study can bring also so much joy too. And it's just a surprising benefit this process.

absolutely. And I want to say thank you, ladies, for trusting tiffani so deeply that you would trust me to open this wound again. You are deeply appreciated. I've loved getting to know both of you and the kids and the dogs.

Thank you for having us on and giving us an opportunity to further educate, talk about the things that are important to us. Were both just so grateful for being given a platform that we could have shared and just hoping that, that could reach anybody that I needed til. Thank you to both of you.

For more something was wrong updates and other impact of survivor interviews, please had to what came next wherever you listen to podcasts? What came next to a broken cycled media production co produced by amy b chest r and Tiffany race? If you'd like to help support what came next, you can leave as a positive review, support our sponsors, or follow broken cycle media on instagram. At broken cycle media, check out the episode notes for sources, resources and to follow our guests. Thank you again for listening.

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