Summary

Mark Zaid (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss American intelligence and the law. You’ve heard of a “lawyer to the stars,” Mark is the “lawyer to the spies”

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

The quirks of being a lawyer in this space
How the Espionage Act works in practice
The trial of the Rosenbergs
The origins of FOIA and its purpose
The Legal foundations underpinning espionage and intelligence

Reflections

Challenging authority
The delicate balance of secrecy

And much, much more …

Quotes of the Week

“I still love working every day, 30 years later, because there's still something new. As much as I fight for declassification and transparency, I will at times also see information and learn of events where I go, “Oh, I get it. Yeah, that stuff cannot be known. That's incredible what we did. That's pretty wild.” – Mark Zaid.

Resources

SURFACE SKIM

SpyCasts

Agent of Betrayal, FBI Spy Robert Hanssen with CBS’ Major Garrett and Friends (2023)
David Petraeus on Ukraine & Intelligence with the former CIA Director & 4* General (2023)
Havana Syndrome – A Panel featuring Nicky Woolf, Marc Polymeropoulos, and Mark Zaid (2023)
How Artificial Intelligence is Changing the Spy Game with Mike Susong (2023)

Beginner Resources

What Is a Whistleblower? Protections, Law, Importance, and Example, W. Kenton, Investopedia (2022) [Short article]
What is a Lawyer? American Bar Association (2019) [Short article]
Legal System Basics, CrashCourse, YouTube (2015) [8 min. video]

DEEPER DIVE

Books

State of Silence: The Espionage Act and the Rise of America's Secrecy Regime, S. Lebovic (Basic Books, 2023)
Ethel Rosenberg, A. Sebba (Griffin, 2022)
Spies on Trial: True Tales of Espionage in the Courtroom, C. C. Kuhne (Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 2019)

Primary Sources

Wildcard Resource

John Adams, a 2008 HBO Mini-Series chronicling the Founding Father’s role in early America
John Adams, much like Mark, was a lawyer dedicated to the right to representation. Adams, ever dedicated to the honor of his profession, was the only attorney who agreed to defend the British soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre. You can read the whole trial here.

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“The Skinny on American Intelligence & the Law” – with D.C. “Super Lawyer” Mark Zaid 01:13:35 Share

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Shownotes Transcript

“The Skinny on American Intelligence & the Law” – with D.C. “Super Lawyer” Mark Zaid