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cover of episode Were U.S. Strikes On Iran's Nuclear Program Successful?

Were U.S. Strikes On Iran's Nuclear Program Successful?

2025/6/23
logo of podcast State of the World from NPR

State of the World from NPR

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Benjamin Netanyahu
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David Albright
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Elon Goldenberg
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Jeffrey Lewis
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Lior Sternfeld
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Nadav Strauchler
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Ruvain Khazan
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Jeffrey Lewis: 作为一名在中东研究所的教授,我一直在通过卫星图像观察伊朗的核设施。尽管卫星图像显示了袭击造成的破坏,但很难确定地下设施是否真的被摧毁。更有趣的是,在袭击发生前,伊朗有时间将卡车运到设施,这可能允许他们关闭设施并移除物品,然后他们用泥土掩埋了两个设施的入口以保护它们。我认为伊朗的核计划受到了损害,但仅靠军事力量无法完全摧毁它。 David Albright: 作为科学与国际安全研究所的所长,我也看到了卫星图像,我认为必须假设伊朗仍然拥有大量的浓缩铀,这仍然是一个问题。伊朗可能拥有更多的铀浓缩机器和未被发现的地下设施。所以,我认为这次袭击并没有完全解决问题。 Jeff Brumfield: 作为NPR新闻的记者,我采访了多位专家,他们认为虽然伊朗的核计划受到了损害,但仅靠军事力量无法完全摧毁它。外交可能是解决伊朗核问题的唯一途径。

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Today on State of the World, were U.S. strikes on Iran's nuclear program successful? You're listening to State of the World from NPR. We bring you the day's most vital international stories up close where they're happening. It's Monday, June 23rd. I'm Greg Dixon. Over the weekend, the U.S. entered the war Israel launched against Iran. U.S. B-2 bombers, along with missiles fired from submarines, hit three Iranian nuclear facilities.

On Monday, Iran retaliated, firing missiles at a U.S. military base in Qatar. Those missiles appear to have been intercepted and no casualties were reported. In a few minutes, we'll hear what this new stage of the war says about the evolving relationship between the U.S. and Israel. First, did the U.S. attack against Iran's nuclear program succeed? Details are scarce, but NPR's Jeff Brumfield talked to some experts to find out what they thought.

It was called Operation Midnight Hammer. Seven B-2 stealth bombers took off from an airbase in Missouri loaded with bunker-busting bombs. They flew 18 hours to Iran, where they dropped their weapons on two sites that had been used to enrich uranium. A submarine launched cruise missiles at a third site.

Iran's nuclear ambitions have been obliterated. That was Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth speaking at a Pentagon press conference yesterday. Outside experts aren't as sure. Satellite images show where the bunker busters hit, but it's hard to say if they really destroyed the underground facilities, according to Jeffrey Lewis. What you see is actually very difficult to interpret because it's really just

some holes. Lewis is a professor at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies who's watched Iran's sites using satellite images, and those pictures show something else. In the days running up to the strike, vehicles were visible at two of the three facilities struck by the U.S. One of the really interesting things I see is that the Iranians had time to bring trucks to the facility, which I presume allowed them to shut things down and remove things.

and then they buried the entrances to both facilities with dirt to protect them. The two facilities in question were believed to hold much of Iran's highly enriched uranium. That uranium was almost weapons grade, and it's believed Iran had enough for around 10 nuclear bombs before the strike,

Much of it was stored in small, portable canisters. They're metal. They can be put in a car. David Albright is president of the Institute for Science and International Security. Like Lewis, he's seen the images, and he thinks that uranium has left these sites. I think you have to assume that significant amounts of this enriched uranium still exist and remains a problem. So this is not over by any means.

And that's not all. Lewis and Albright also think that Iran has more machines used to enrich uranium and other underground sites where they could potentially install those machines.

While Iran's nuclear program has definitely been damaged, Lewis says he doubts military force alone can destroy it. I don't think any bombing campaign is going to eliminate Iran's nuclear program. Instead, he says that diplomacy may be the only way to make Iran give up its nuclear ambitions. Jeff Brumfield, NPR News.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has wanted to attack Iran for decades, but he had been restrained by, among other things, President Trump, who had asked him to hold off. All that has changed now. NPR's Daniel Estrin reports from Tel Aviv about how Netanyahu got what he wanted.

Benjamin Netanyahu warned about Iran's nuclear program for more than three decades. A decade ago at the United Nations, he held up a cartoon of a bomb and said Iran was inching closer to an advanced stage of uranium enrichment. From there, it's only a few months, possibly a few weeks, before they get enough enriched uranium for the first bomb. Iran has long threatened to destroy Israel. Netanyahu long wanted to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, but couldn't get U.S. support.

Elon Goldenberg of the advocacy group J Street used to work at the Pentagon tracking Israel-Iran tensions under the Obama administration. What we actually pursued during those years, and I think it's been really a consistent strategy for 20 years from the United States, has been what you might call the hug and punch strategy.

Demonstrate to the Israelis that every step of the way, we are capable of doing this much more effectively than you are. And we've got your back and we will do it if we need to. And at the same time, don't you do it. After President Trump announced nuclear talks with Iran this year, he said he asked Netanyahu to hold off on any attack.

But by then, Israelis' own thinking had changed. Israel used to be deterred from attacking Iran by the threat of retaliation from Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Syrian regime. But those threats were beaten back in the last few years of war, and Israel got some practice rounds bombing Iran.

Ruvain Khazan teaches political science at Hebrew University. Hamas is almost obliterated. Hezbollah has been hit so hard that they are sitting this one out. The Syrian regime has collapsed. And we were able to fly to Iran to take out their anti-aircraft missiles and to realize that now an operation like this can be done with little damage to us.

So all of the chess pieces have moved. And while Netanyahu has been talking about this for decades, it is only in the last several months that this has all lined up for him and it's become possible. Over the years, Netanyahu's focus on Iran has had other political advantages. Lior Sternfeld, a Mideast historian at Penn State University, says it helped Netanyahu distract from Israel's unresolved conflict with the Palestinians. Because

Every critique on Israel behavior in the West Bank and Gaza, it was always convenient to have some kind of greater risk, not just to Israel, but to the world in the form of Iran, in order to quiet critique. The war on Iran also helped Netanyahu with problems at home. He averted his governing coalition from falling apart and sidelined widespread frustration with the Gaza war.

Nadav Strauchler, a former advisor to Netanyahu, says as Trump considered whether to join in the Iran war, Netanyahu was well prepared for the moment. The big trophy, the big idea, his big goal, his life mission was always Iran.

So because he was so into it, it was, I think, easier for him to persuade Trump that this is the right thing to do. This past weekend, the U.S. bombed Iran's main nuclear sites, and Netanyahu released this video. Congratulations, President Trump.

Your bold decision to target Iran's nuclear facilities with the awesome and righteous might of the United States will change history. Whether Trump and Netanyahu will continue to be in lockstep is a question, especially over Gaza. In polls, Israelis overwhelmingly support Netanyahu's war in Iran. But the one success eluding him is ending the Gaza war and freeing the remaining hostages. And that is the open wound that hurts Israelis most.

Daniel Estrin, NPR News, Tel Aviv. That's the state of the world from NPR. For more coverage of all sides of this conflict, go to npr.org slash mid-east updates. Thanks for listening. Decades ago, Brazilian women made a discovery. They could have an abortion without a doctor, thanks to a tiny pill. That pill spawned a global movement, helping millions of women have safe abortions, regardless of the law.

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