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cover of episode Why Germany's Government Can Spy on a Political Party

Why Germany's Government Can Spy on a Political Party

2025/5/29
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State of the World from NPR
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Greg Dixon
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James Burns
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Maximilian Steinbeiss
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Nadine Doktor
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Rob Schmitz
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Russell Miller
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Greg Dixon: 作为主持人，我介绍了德国政府监视最大反对党——德国另类选择党的背景，该党因其民族主义和反移民立场被情报机构标记为极端主义。这一举动允许政府监听党员电话并雇佣线人进行监控，以确保其不对德国民主构成威胁。虽然这一举动受到美国政客的批评，但德国宪法允许此类保护措施，而这部宪法恰恰是在美国的帮助下制定的。 James Burns: 作为美国国务卿，我在二战后的斯图加特发表“希望的演讲”，向德国传递了美国期望德国起草一部能够严格保护民主、人权和个人自由的宪法的信号。美国不希望德国成为任何强权的附庸，而是希望德国人民能够重新掌握政府的权力。当然，美国也为此设立了一些不可谈判的条件。 Russell Miller: 作为宪法历史学者，我指出美国坚持德国建立联邦制国家，以分散权力，防止出现像希特勒一样的独裁者。美国还在宪法中加入了“战斗民主”的概念，允许德国政府采取在某些情况下看起来不自由的方式来保护自由主义和民主制度。这种看似矛盾的做法，实际上是为了确保宪法的安全。 Maximilian Steinbeiss: 作为宪法博客的创始人，我认为将国内情报机构嵌入政府以保护民主，在实践中可能显得笨拙且无效。情报机构本身有时也会被极端分子渗透，因此，真正能够保护宪法的，是人民对宪法的尊重和教育，而不是仅仅依赖于宪法条文本身。 Nadine Doktor: 作为历史学家，我介绍了二战后西德在起草宪法时的历史背景。由于当时德国东西分裂，西德对国家统一抱有希望，因此没有将新宪法命名为“宪法”，而是称之为“基本法”，以避免显得过于永久。这个决定反映了当时复杂的政治环境。 Rob Schmitz: 作为记者，我总结指出，德国在1990年统一后，继续沿用了“基本法”这一名称。这部受美国影响的法律在过去几十年里运行良好，因此没有必要进行修改。我的报道旨在揭示德国政府监视反对党的历史根源和现实影响。

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Germany's domestic intelligence agency has labeled the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party as extremist, leading to government surveillance. This move has drawn criticism from US officials like Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, yet it's permitted by Germany's constitution, a constitution shaped by the US.
  • Germany's domestic intelligence agency labeled the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party as extremist.
  • The German government can now conduct surveillance on AfD members.
  • US officials criticized Germany's move.
  • Germany's constitution, influenced by the US, allows for such measures.

Shownotes Transcript

Germany's biggest opposition political party, the nationalist and anti-immigration Alternative for Germany party, has been designated "extremist" by the country's domestic intelligence agency. That means the German government can tap party members' phones and hire informants to monitor them, in a measure meant to ensure that the party is not a threat to democracy. U.S. Vice President JD Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio have both criticized this move. But it is something the German constitution allows and that constitution was shaped by the United States. Our correspondent in Germany looks into how and why this came about.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices)NPR Privacy Policy)