838: Consciousness and Machines, with Jennifer K. Hill
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This is up so number eight hundred and thirty eight with Jennifer k. Hill, cofounder and CEO of opto match.

Well, come back to the superstitious zed pod test. I am your host, john chone. I've got something different for you today instead of hosting today's partner episode and one of the guest last week while I was at web summer in portugal, Lucy Andrews, who was on epo de number seven hundred and seventy on the neuroscientific guide to confidence, Lucy asked me if i'd like to be one of the guests in an interview.

The interview was part of a so on hosted by an organization called light down. A decentralized, autonomous organization that defines itself is a global community for conscious entrepreneurs and investors. In this context, my understanding is that conscious means something like socially responsible entrepreneurship and investment that baLances financial results with social impact.

In any event, the interview was hosted by belly shing, who is the chapter lead for light down in lisbon. SHE is also a film producer and entrepreneur. Let's jump right to bela as he introduces Jennifer and then myself, and then will be straight into the interview and audience Q N, A, all of which centres around general questions related to A, I and conscious ness IT should be interesting to any listen. No particular technical background is required.

Aren't here we go. I am excited to introduce both gender hill and on crime. So Jennifer, for those of you who do not know, salter, first company and has been a speaker on on stages with one hundred thousand people in india, he has her own hot cast called regarding consciousness, which features the plot leaders like pacoima, great trading, bw slipped and many others.

He stopped two schools in the paul and in sanaa, al. And she's one, a lifetime achieving award from the visionary. She's also a prd member of the evolutionary leaders and the octopus.

She's currently filling her an extension, which is called often match, which is a software that uses a proprietary algorithm to a line. Individuals and businesses and community used to create a more psychological safety, which is very exciting. I've used IT.

It's brilliant and very simple and really easy to use. A very accurate SHE also coaches ahead of ceos. So and john is the chief data scientist and cofounder of nebula.

He's also the author of the best selling book called deep learning illustrated. He's also posted super data science. How many people have heard his podcast? Anyone here? okay.

I feel so. Is the most listen to podcast about a data science and the most downloaded and he is a web of information, and we're so excited to happen here. And he also presents popular machine learning tutorials you do me and or Riley with one hundred thousand students.

So he is a king. He was a keynote speaker who went summit. And we are very thankful for Lucy for connecting us and making this that happen when you thank you. So so i'll start you goes up with some questions and i'm going to start with jane. What do you think because you're work in their sex with consciousness and an executive development, how do you see the role of self awareness and consciously aderke evolving with tech like with the eye? Thank you so much baLance.

Thank you john for being here. And to all of you who joined us tonight wherever you've joined from its a pleasure to have you here with us in terms of the intersection of consciousness and the way we Operate as leaders and executives. I think the emergence of A I and different technologies are going to help us to be able to use our creative capacity.

And under and I were just speaking about that when we are talking about what are some of our fears are excitements the things that light us up about using A I R different types of technology and what scares us. And I think that, like all things, it's the consciousness with which we approach the thing that impacts it's used for good or is used for evil in terms of being executives and his leaders. We were just talking about this spelling in john myself a moment ago, is when I first started using A I about three years ago.

I was an early adopter of chat G, B, T. And started teaching classes on IT with a dear friend of mine. And as we started to teach him, I noticed something immediate. And what that was, was that A I response to you? And I think as leaders, that we are going to learn how to be Better communicators in how good or how bad our responses are that we get from A I.

Whether it's worth doing the programing of using IT to help us write articles, business plans at sea, we're going to learn how to be Better prompters and communicators as executives because we're going to be met with and the resistance, it's not going to be your employee who you can have a fight with them and say you are not listening to me. No, the honest with you, you are not communicating in a way that lands. So what I see happening for the future of technology and the intersection of that with our consciousness, it's going to help us to become more sofa ware and more contract ious with how we communicate with one another and to be able to utilize that for all of our best good.

I love that. Can I add something onto that? So you you I love how you touched on how your experience of communicating to the machine, uh, how that changed your experience of dealing with humans. For me, a big thing has been the response from the machine and how that has impacted my dealing with human.

So I, because the machines are programmed there, there's something called the reinforcement learning from human feedback where after the anger measure ity been trained to kind of give the correct answers in terms of um like accurate answer. This reinforcement money from human feedback is a final training step where you provide IT with the way IT should be responding. Um so you you include in their you know polite and so IT means that IT has the the machines have an infinite amount of patients with you and kindness for you。 And so living in manhattan, i'm often people are not you.

People don't have a lot of time for you. They're giving you the short as possible answer. And this includes even in service industries, when you are speaking to a physician, there is more about getting you out the door quickly than providing you is a really high quality of of care.

In terms of their response, you know giving you a you know I have some news that might not be the best news you want here is kind of just like you like you know, response. And so I so yeah so interesting to me. I had never thought about the way that you're just in general where um your communication to IT and you needing to be able to prompt the machine effectively has helped with your communication.

For me, most of my consciousness warehouse of how i've been affected by the machines is the inverse where if I spend uh if i've just spent some time uh drafting some podcast gript spent having our drafting of podcast cripp with a ChatGPT or a claud or google gemini it's been so polite to me the whole time even when I make mistake IT says, you know, I can see why you thought that. That was a really reasonable thing to think. Actually most scientists would degree that.

And so that kind of they're really holiness IT makes me when that I then take the elevator down to the street. Men on, I have a lot more time a day for everyone because I ve just been treated so politely for half an hour that i'm kind I I have more time for people and i'm nice to people in the street, so I don't know. That's a attention. I'm glad got some gags. Machines are making me more human like .

IT be our sorrow like a bit board. No.

yeah. Well.

that's playa. People are in like h you know the en gna get this. thanks. And i'm thinking, actually the women been getting. So I think it's just like in and tell me about .

your day. Well, this I mean, you joke, but actually that is I think that's inevitably where we're headed. Um there's a there's a brilliant future named now watton that I had a guest on my show and SHE blew my mind with a conversation that now IT just seems so obviously me that this is where things are headed.

Um so imagine you put on V R. Goggles and you go to a bar. And in that bar in this visual world, some people that are there are other humans who put on V R. goggles. But some people that you're interacting there within the bar R A I systems, and you can imagine trivially today, based on the kinds of qualities of conversation that you might have had with any of these leading conversation A S, you can imagine that that conversation would be quite companion n. And so if you don't know which of these digital representations are speaking to our human or machine, you might inadvertently find yourself gravitating much more towards the conversations with the machines because they remember everything you've said, like it's exactly the joke you just know, but that empathetic they had so much time for you remembers everything you said. It's programmed to be friendly.

Where is the other know? It's fake.

I love that exactly .

ready player one.

Here we come. So that sad. And given your exposure to all these amazing minds that are working in this field, what are you most excited about in terms of either framework or platform or technology, whatever IT is that you think can actually really help humanity? I don't know it's a level or evolve or become Better, more whatever IT is, what are exiting .

everything in the coming decades is going to change dramatically and IT might happen so rapidly um that IT IT will have a negative show social impacts in the short term um we we very suddenly now as of much of last year with the release of GPT four from OpenAI for the first time, I was so blown away by with these A S systems work that I went from the table for, GPT four came out.

If you ask me whether they are artificial general intelligence is broad term, but basically meaning, uh, an a machine system that could do any of the kind of economy of tasks to human can. If you ask me if that A G I system, artificial general intelligence, could be achieved in our life span the day before a GPT four came out, I would say maybe not. It's tRicky like it's going to be really hard to get to that level of intelligence.

Uh, I don't know if that will be possible in our lifetime for sure. Maybe we will take thirty years. The next day GPT four came out and IT is so good and it's improved a lot in the eighteen months sense uh in an other systems like for me right now, claw three point five on IT is my preferred go to, uh, large language model.

And IT blows my mind every day the things that I can do. And now I A completely switched camps. And I think that this A G I could be realized in just a few years. Potentially the biggest breakthrough recently is a one from open a eye who who here is played with a one so getting towards half of the people in the room.

The brilliant thing about oh one is that what he does is um if if people are familiar with dania candian thinking fast and slow, um a lot of heads are nodding so really quickly um thinking fast and slow is a really popular both by the recently deceased uh noble Price economic and can and in thinking fast and slow IT summarizes research that hima amsterdam did over decades on how your cognition works and they're elucidate of primarily these two thinking systems that you have your fast thinking systems, what they call system one in your slow thinking system, what they cost system to. And I am using my fast thinking system right now. I am stream of consciousness bidding words out as they come to my head.

I'm hoping that they are gonna good words and hopefully, you know, I don't go out tracks soon. That's system one. So the system to thinking is when you are yeah sitting down with a piece paper and you know writing some math or working out your finances for the month or whatever um or you're drafting something and you're spending a lot of time going back and thinking, OK, i'm going to edit this past paragraph um i'm going to make that Better.

I'm going to get this whole flow um you know Better for this S A really think things through so you're going back if you're correcting things system one is what if you haven't experienced one, then probably all you've experienced um with these conversationally our system is a system one kind of thing where IT just streams out to your words IT doesn't spend time thinking about a response first. IT doesn't go back and correct things oh, one is like system two thinking. It's alleges to that where before IT spits anything on to screen, IT spends time thinking.

And I will take down the steps for you as what is doing behind the scenes if you give IT a relatively simple math problem like um secondary school partial derivative calculus, relatively simple IT might spend ten seconds thinking before I started to spitting out the answers to the screen. When the answers come out to screen IT is correct almost every time, and it's beautifully presented, is a plus work. If you give IT a very chAllenging math problem, P H D level, uh, mathematics problem that you know, P H D student would spend a month or a week or that kind of timeline thinking over in order to be able to do some proof, if you can do IT, which often IT would be able to do these days, a one might take a minute or two to give you netter.

So, uh, open eye is has with the old one algorithm theyve scaled up the inference time compute when it's producing result for you. And this creates much more accurate, much more beautiful ly presented answer cany problem. But there is no reason why I should just be thinking on a minute scale.

IT could be thinking on an hours, weeks, months scale. And so IT might be the case that in twelve months time, open eye, or related a super scale, will you'll be able to come to the machine and say, I am looking for A, A, A cure for this kind of cancer. And IT goes off for a month, reads, goes, pours over every journal article imaginable on the topic, pull things in from other fields in a way that a human expert never could.

And IT does this twenty four, seven, far faster than you could think for months, and then comes back with a beautiful paper, some idea of research suggestions on how you on an experiment you might want to conduct in the real world. And so that is happening now, and it's going to be amongst us very soon. It's going to get cheaper.

And that means that in a few years time, just with the technology we have today, IT requires no more advanced um A I models in terms of weight, IT requires no more extra data collection, just use with the technology we have today scaling up in terms of inference time, you will have um what um die o on a day who's A C E O of anthropic has called um a million nobel prize winning intelligent brains in a data center working twenty four seven solving the worlds problems and so everything will change in the coming years um yeah just our ability to to come up with ideas is going to vastly accelerate. And so across everything, across energy, nuclear fusion, we should be able to figure out much more rapidly. And so in addition to having abundant intelligence, will have abundant energy.

And those two things combined, abundant intelligence and abundant energy, we will be able to accelerate the development of embodiment of A I in the real world, that is robotics. Um so this could be humanoid robots with two arms and two legs, but also just robot arms and um um in any other kind of embodiment, musical embodiment you can imagine, uh which you know is expensive and takes time, but if we have unlimited intelligence, unlimited energy, that will happen more rapidly as well and so then the physical world begins to change rapidly um because of ai. And so yeah, this could all happen very, this could happen staringly rapid. They surprising rabbit.

And I could talk about this for a very long time, but I feel like going .

on way too long, long.

And we, yeah, well, you weren't on IT. They missed out, but all cutting aside. They had two experts in A I one gentman from M A, T. And I forget the other for anybody who was there.

And one of the things that was fasting was talking about these bumpers, like with having artificial general intelligence, there's no bumpers, and that I can go infinite directions. And that could be beautiful directions where we have doubled robots and artificial intelligence and IT. There's also no, we can event to what he, what john just explained.

Our human brains can't even father the world that were about to get into because we can't even think fast enough to imagine the curse and also possibly the atrocities that could happen. So my question to you, john, would be, what sort of bumpers do we put in as we reach this event horizon of infinite knowledge at our fingertips? How do we fund that? How do we channel that? So IT gets used for good and doesn't get put in the wrong hands and leads to the ation.

It's a tRicky problem, for sure. And uh, is is interesting. You are the use were the eventful zing there. There's a futures a while a couple decades ago, popular ways of the singularity for that moment where machines eclipse human intelligence and IT probably won't be like, I don't know, i'm not sure that is going to be so sudden of a of a moment. They will probably over over take us in more and more things like IT has been in recent years. Um until work kind like go you know it's actually smarter than us at everything now in in in in terms of being able to constrain IT and have guard rails.

I am grateful that there are a lot of people in the world we are concerned about IT now and so um research money both privately as well as publicly um is going into this effort to put guddle on IT IT is divulge because it's like um if uh um tim urban who right who who used to write a lot for a block, it's he's only red on this black week but why are an amazing blog he's written about a lots of fascinating subjects over the years. He hasn't been very a active on that recently. But um but a decade ago he wrote um two gigantic blog post, two part blog post called the road to super intelligence.

It's a fantastic introductory read even ten years later doesn't really matter on intelligence and on getting some head nodes. One thing that tim urban does in that blog post that is really helpful for trying to frame this idea of us being so much less intelligent. Then these A I systems that are coming is if you imagine a staircase where each step is a level of intelligence and we are say, one step beyond chimps on um and dogs, dolphins, they're like two steps below the champs and in sector like five steps below, you know, the dogs and I think the A I system could be you know you know today it's like it's approaching us on that staircase on most kinds calling your tasks.

But IT could be the case once to go to step past us. IT is able to help itself develop even Better A I systems that rapidly go many steps on the staircase beyond us. And so, like you said, like IT could be that the way that the system is intelligent is, is, is intelligent in a way that we will be impossible, no matter how much time you spend to explain partial derivation calculus to a trip, forget to a dog. But we could be so many steps below, you know, far bigger gap between us in the eye relative to OK 这样。 So I am very curious because.

you know, for a lot of us who answer the consciousness studies, we talk about intuition, we talk about body base, thematic, intelligent. I know you're talking about the embalmed of robots. A lot of the choices that some matic healers or conscious of leaders um make are based off of what we call instinct or intuition. We have a school under an I called education, and we actually have students learning how to remote you, to lose a dream, to talk to animals suitably. And they've been able to do IT quite dramatically.

So that points to, I do have an argument about as to whether or not dolphins are less intelligent than chimps, especially as A I is digging to discover the language wales and dolphins and someone and we're discovering that there's so much more to what they're saying to you to living and how they work as pads, then pretty ly understood. I just think that there's A A possible false premise going on about intelligence and what intelligence is without evaluation, without embodiment, meaning like you know humans that are connected to something other than wifi. But but something greater than that.

And I think you were talking to um the neuroscience entities, I don't remembering ing braying something we're talking about. You know how neurons is work in the brain and how they are discovering its more analog than you know all that how they still don't really understand even how the human brain completely works. Why is there this assumption that human intelligencies um like or that that artificial intelligence is going to be automatically surpassing human intelligence?

Um okay to that in one quick second. Uh is a really great question um to quickly rap up the one from you, Jenny um which is uh guard rails is that um there's were trying research, are trying to come up with ways uh to add also so for example, even though we won't be able to keep up, humans won't be able to keep up uh with th Epace o f i ntelligence u h, not withstanding the question IT is doing that that is so possible um uh but you could of people working on training systems to observe and monitor and so maybe there be ways that they would end up uh collaborating and kind of breaking breaking free of the constraints we put on them.

There's a lots of absolutely concerning difficult chAllenges in developing ethical and well constrained A I systems. No question. Yeah and i'm graf. A lot of people are working on IT and um if you talk to A I experts and I try to get some sense of whether they think that the future will be bright or the future will be negative with eye mostly. And so we talk about things beyond kind like cognitive intelligence and kind like your your intuition that I think and kind of exact emotion kind of falls into that then um people who are generally optimistic and have been optimistic their whole lives and working A I research feel like it's going to go well and people who have been pessimistic their whole lives feel like it's not going to go well. Um and so have .

the principle so that seems .

to have little to do with, uh, intelligence all so intelligence, intellect is a divulged word. Um uh there is not a lot of agreement among uh people who even study intelligence as scientists as to what exactly that means. My favorite definition of intelligence is that intelligence is whatever intelligence tests measure.

So we come up we've come up with a test, I Q tests and these except for IT, if you if you retest, if you do I Q test a lot, you'll do Better at them in which I Q test subpose be a matter of kind of your nate intelligence. If you practice them, you will get Better at them. So they're not, you know, perfect, but uh, they are you know, they are they are kind of that that is a bit of a joke definition.

But IT is actually, I prefer one because there is a there is so many different ways that you can be defining things. You know these kinds of uh uh you know thought thoughts about how you know uh you know thinking intuitively and you know there are all different kinds. There's different kinds of things that could be wrong to the picture.

But in terms of what intelligence test measure in terms of, uh, cognitive capability, the ability to a rate complete code that is solving a problem, um math problems, biological problems, chemistry, any of these, I guess when i'm thinking about uh, intelligence and and when i'm saying so confidently that machines will be able to take over, take humans, what i'm describing is basically something that would be assessed in a science or engineering P H. D. department.

And if we can piggy back on that giant, what you said into bellport when we're talking that things such as remote viewing or for example, of many of you've heard nonverbal autistic children are shown, and there have been studies done, scientific studies to be telepathic with their parents. I remember when I first met the park shop a, he told me a study that they had conducted where in one room you had a non verbal autistic child, in another, completely separate, locked off with his mother, reading a passage of a book. Meanwhile, the child is writing down what, you know, what the mother is reading in the other room. So IT gets into a bigger question of, are we talking intelligence or are we talking consciousness? And if I may add something on that, look, what would you differentiate as the difference between what bellis referring to, which to me falls more in the category of consciousness and less in the category of intelligence.

The conscious ness is a tRicky uh, term. And I don't even know if I could wait into IT very effectively. I am out of date on on the literature. There was a time uh around uh two thousand and six two thousand seven. I did know a lot about uh conscious ous research at that time I had A P H D um application accepted to university college lend to study the neural basis of conscious ness in uh brain imaging machines like F M I or magnet o and theology y machines and so at that time was very interested in consciousness. And I looked into IT a lot at that time last twenty years ago now um the literature that I looked into around things like remote viewing um you know around hypo thy y no well controlled studies h existed that showed that those things were possible. Um but i'm i'm twenty years at a bit so I can ah I can't speak .

you about that something but I think IT was the last of the second to last episode that depart, shower and done half f and I did. One of the questions that came up in the episode is could A I become conscious? It's a question a lot of people ask, great.

And I love my friend don hofman si. Don hofman was a brilliant, but called the case against reality. Why a olustee the truth from her eyes? And mark my words, one day he'll get a nobel peace prize.

And what don's latest mathematic formulas for consciousness is that you have the thing that is consciousness, that is one thing called consciousness, some of which you have these conscious agents projected into the theater of space time, which gives us the experience of john and balan all the sitting here having this experience in the theater of space time. However, you have things that are not projected into the theater of spacetime, this conscious agents not projected and down. And I we had an interesting debate about IT, and he said, theoretically, what the math is showing him is that all things emerge from consciousness ness. And the consciousness itself is fundamental, which thereby means that A I or any games of artificial intelligence is natively, fundamentally conscious. So I don't know that was an interesting debate.

I don't know anything about that.

It's eight box. So does anyone have a burning question for either? Yes, please say you anything. I hi. You know.

I want to build on below saying i've been very impressive in our multiple. His essential pain was that took current theories of intelligence measure only one or two things that might measure mathematical and numerical ability and the ability to reason and and he argued, that is A A lot of different things that IT ignores. If we talked about eight diff kind of intelligence, naturalist taking to personnel interprets on all of us. And one of my concern is that the people who were involved in the envisioning of and development of A, I actually come only from .

cognitive fields.

They don't come from feels that access other forms of nator environment connection mean. That's my assumption. So i'm wondering whether the kind of artifical intelligence that we are developing is a reflection of the narrow field that he draws from.

Yes, the yes, the question uh is about, you know different types of intelligence. And our garden is a leader in the space. I think how garner he's behind the idea of like g is kind of a generalized intelligence. Is that rather multiple? Yeah but that was like kind of a um I thought I was harder, I could be wrong that had this kind of idea of where there are multiple intelligence is people who tend to be strong at one is often a coral lation across them. Anyway, I thought that was g, but I might not be hard good anyway i'm aggressing does not matter for the ursy of question um i'd like to really quickly because I I feel like I wasn't um I realize this now the second time i've done IT, but I kind of gone back to something Jennifer said but I just as you are asking that question, you know you talking about conscience here um and that i'm going to have to learn about the interesting things that you are describing there. I don't know anything .

about IT send .

your paper on IT I would love that because it's it's a for me obviously um to I but i'd like to quickly uh just give uh a military to you on uh my thoughts on consciousness and machines which is that um IT is very conscious incident that you have which is obviously infinite amy fleeting and uh you know you're having one right now and it's gone. You're having one or now it's gone.

And there is nothing else that you can directly experience except this instant of your consciousness. You can imagine what the future might be like. You can try to remember to the best of your ability things from the past.

But all that you have right now for sure is the conscious experience of this moment. And so because of that, uh and uh I love alone watts a reading him, listening to him. And he's been very helpful for me, for helping me be more and more aware of this presents s and how beautiful and fleeing IT is and how precious your life is. A kind of experience of, via this conscious experience, we again, and twenty years old on the conscious ence literature. But I don't think we've come too far in terms of understanding the neural basis of consciousness, the the how does how does the rise in your mind? How do, how does the the blob of tissues inside the bone of your skull somehow produce this colors and smells and taste and and thoughts and feelings there's uh yeah I my I yeah twenty years ago certain in neuroscience Sally was a very little understanding and I suspected as dull quite the same way um today uh again narrow ly the neuroscience view terms of what you can see and brain scans and that a few that .

brains are consciousness switch a different yes, that's actually you would love dance work on this. So it's actually that leading science of showing us more and more yes, you have the experience of touch. I've seen the college Green of smells at a yet. To your point, it's not measurable in the brain proceed and so now they're starting to separate the brain and .

consciousness. But that is isn't IT because with a rain you can have you can have uh very specific um you know if you have small abolition, uh you know a brain image and very small part of the brain, you can lose the ability to have a conscious experience of some specific thing while your brain is still able to process those things. So um uh oh h an example that um I love is if uh in some cases of vary severe stroke, you several something called the .

corpus closed or also an up patients, they used to cut the corpus, some to stop the electrical storms from crossing from .

the right to left is here very severe, you know, kind of last ditch treatment to try to prevent this .

very bad um seizure uh I and.

And so people who have the corpus close some cut in half. There is a very few connections between right brain and love brain. And you then you have to independently conscious hemispheres um of the brain. So you can you can put a piece of paper between the persons eyes and um your left eye corresponds to rain brain and so when you so when you show something to and i'm i'm bucher in real time kind of the sides of the brain， there will be something like uh in a right handed person, show something on to the left side to the left eye. They will perceive that consciously uh in the right uh brain and so the right hand, I think if remember.

if you got a basically on side, if you show like the hand will actually grab an object depending on side of the brain you show up to, you could have the hand, i'll grab the key. For example, if you show IT to the left side, the brain, but IT IT doesn't in or connect again.

Dawn serious say that there's a zero percent chance for seeing reality as IT is, and you get more deeply into consciousness and step around that and that don had, ironically done. Hoofin was my favorite professor. I college at uc.

Years later, at the pleasure of doing these shows with him. And I remarked, when done would do these classes, he would say, okay, let's talk about consciousness in the eye. E, A moment.

I will always vividly remember the selections. He said, let's say, john, god, for bed you lose a foot. We give you a robotic foot.

Are you still human? Well, yeah, yeah. Interesting shapes us.

So would you how many of you would think that he was join human if you give him a about and how that he's still human? But so if you cut off his third, he's still human? Okay, most of us degree.

Okay, let's say that john loses an I got for bed, and he now has an I, but is still connected to his brain to go back to the conscious ness of day. And his brain is connected now to this electric eye. How many of us in the room thinks john is still human? Okay, most of us.

Now let's say that john actually loses a piece of his oxybate love, not just the eyes, but actually the oxybate lobe of the brain. We release that now with quantum chips and computers. And now he can see through this eye and through the accept the love of his brain, which is then replace, is he still human?

How many of you would say how many of us think john is still human? So that's the question. Where does A I with this world were moving into? We're not that far away from IT. And I interact your example.

No no no no no no there very yeah very interest in the chip of theist thing is yes a very it's interesting even without any machines to think of how you know theoretically over your lifetime you know yours cells slaughter and new one's come ah your brain stars do remain fixed um over your life span but therefore ally, we could in the future be able to replace brain cells with maybe new biological ones that we grow um in a vat or uh you know with some kind of machine uh that we put inside the skull and so you can completely replace. So I still might be able to have this continuous conscious experience.

uh uh continuous concious experience pending on what .

we do find is consciousness I guess so I matisse ness is out think.

Part of. So basically dishes, uh, thank mind, give me from pushing us and he saved like but children that make the ship of this, but ship of 长安 timbers。 So if you and if replacing the the pieces of the timber of the ship, there are what points when you're replaced. So much of the timber is the ship of theses to the ship theses. So if you think about IT from the scene .

of transcending.

m monism is too really interesting content. If I remove my some of my lives, and we know that body memory, for example, is a real thing, that this is the body has its own intelligence separate from the brain intelligence. Just why, for example, you a person has booked on a more fee okay.

Um or on on on on some kind of drug like like it's a irwin OK. The body has been taught for a long time. I like that that school you you keep having that the body does now work this all machine to make sure that's cool.

But in consciously you have this idea you something from anymore body guys, i'm not to send to the drug over, what are you even testing me and you sense information is really interesting. Others all happens. So that's a little daddies of dance.

So h four months get tides. Teacher, get, stand down from the brain, does body and the body says something. So keep you later.

Okay, what's going on there? right? But I move for the two arms and two days and some, and the body is conscious of that. Or leave some organs.

What's going on there? And I told me, you know, when that happens, when you think about the concept OK great, taking human being, right, consciousness. And somehow we figure out, magically how to transport that information into a robot, go into a the cloud.

the black mirror episode, if nobody ever .

saw that diest right? And I mean.

what is this conscious ness?

Much is biology OK. Is this frame actually where consciousness resigns? Can you put about food? Thank you. Um if .

there's anything that I am, I don't believe in me ourself, I think everything is blurred um but um yeah and so I I agree on those points in the ship. This is really helpful. People heard that before, you know, coming to that conclusion that you don't exist.

There is no you that is independent of things around you and that includes, you know, brain rescue body, uh, in the interactions between hormones, appetites, all those chemicals yeah. But somehow all that does lead to this conscious experience that I am having right now. I can vote.

I mean, I I can say you, you can, I can prove to you, but I am having a conscious experience right now. Will a machine? So this is going back, way back to your question, you know, talking about machines IT isn't know I obviously need to read about this。 Um it's three of conscious .

agents theory of conscious agents and consciousness is fundamental and that space time only arises as an artifact of consciousness.

Ah so that's like that's a complete uh my ship for anything that I ever thought about before. And I look ford to learning more about IT um but yes, for my limited perspective, uh yeah I don't I don't know my way instant is that something is that I don't anticipate that a calculator has conscious ness. I don't anticipate that a just talk computer is conscious ness and that doesn't seem to me uh that you know any amount of making that more and more complex, having ts of servers working together that that uh that produces conscience. I without knowing you know there's other theory out there for sure um and lots more that I need to learn but my very limited nearing perspective um is that there is something uh I about biological organisms that leads conscious ness uh to happen and how do we were not somebody .

else's science experiment or that were not somebody else se's computer program running? That's another question.

sure. There's a lots of things .

that will never be able to know.

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