Bruno set-pieces see off Ipswich amid more job cuts
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That's better than they could have hoped for at the start of this second half. Manchester United are back in front. This is Talk The Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. Another day, another piece of drama from the team that we all love. A 10-man Manchester United see-off Ipswich 3-2 in a result that should stop Laurie doing his sums for this week at least.

It's been another difficult week though, of course, for everyone connected with Manchester United with more redundancies, more cost-cutting measures as well. We'll talk about that and of course, we need to preview the FA Cup fifth round tie against Fulham on Sunday. I've been at Anfield actually. I wasn't at Old Trafford tonight. Erm...

Yeah, let's move on swiftly. Laurie Andy, was it as chaotic as it seemed? I mean, a win's a win, but bloody hell. Yeah, you can keep your boring victories over at Anfield to yourselves. What we want is tragedy, comedy, drama, and then, yeah, a happy ending, sort of, I suppose. Yeah, it was absolutely bewildering, that first half in particular, and...

felt certainly for me I don't know but it felt like for you Andy Andy came up just after well not after the first whistle but just before the first whistle and we looked at each other and we were not really knowing what to expect and then at half time again it was sort of a bit

bit ashen faced really because you're like thinking well United are down to 10 men here they've just conceded it's kind of calamitous concessions again they're not going to be able to keep Ipswich out here but actually they showed some resilience in that second half bit of grit there was moments where players were kind of revving up the fans and getting behind them and ultimately they won the game and that is I

As crazy as it sounds, an important three points just to put to bed, as you say, me getting the calculator out and the points per game ratio and looking over our shoulders. But it is some fall, isn't it, where United are celebrating wildly a victory over Ipswich that kind of keeps them or lifts them.

into 14th now. Yeah, watch your back. David Moses Everton lifted into 14th. Before we get into some of the drama and the detail, Andy, of the result tonight, can we just praise the spirit? Because even Ruben Amerin admitted when that first goal went in, we were all a bit like, oh no, here we go again. But 3-2 with 10 men having survived what was a pretty chaotic first half and certainly a disastrous start.

When you think that Manchester United have lost five of the last six at home, any win is really appreciated, much needed. I feel that if United would have lost to Ipswich or not have beaten Ipswich, then the mood would have gone even lower, if that is even possible. And there were times, at half-time, I spoke to several former Manchester United players and I said, how did a team win this?

And the consensus was by Ipswich getting a man sent off as well. There was very little optimism there. So it's great that Harry Maguire did score that goal. There was a fight. There's a fight on the terraces, a fight in spirit, and there was a fight on the pitch as well. And there's plenty for us to...

to talk about it was a filthy night I don't know what it was like in Liverpool Ian but when I did see Laurie he says we didn't want to speak to each other I just felt I'd walked through a shower and Critch who was sat next to Laurie said why are your knees all wet I didn't even know they were wet but I was past caring praying in the rain but you know for Manchester United to score twice in the first half of the first half I'm like alright this is quite interesting when

We've not seen this a lot this season. The rain, just quickly, Andy, you know, they actually, the fitness coach, Paula Barrera, sent the substitutes in before the end of the warm-up because they were kind of just doing keep-uppies in this, you know, torrential rain. It was like, you best get off warm. It was kind of an interesting choice, I suppose. But yeah, the weather was certainly a factor in the game tonight.

Substitutes being sent to the dressing room. Yeah, I won't say too much on this, but imagine all the lads stood outside the ground trying to sell a paper-based product. It was absolutely hellish. I'm just like, can things get any worse? You just feel that you're down and someone's booting you and booting you again and booting you again.

but at least Manchester United won the game after all that. Yeah, definitely. And I do think there is something to cling on to in that. You hope that it brings a little bit more positivity heading into the Fulham game at the weekend and the FA Cup as well, which we'll preview later on in the podcast. Let's get into some of the detail then, Laurie.

Patrick Dorgu's first half, that was his first Premier League start. In fact, he didn't even have a full first half, did he? But that was his first Premier League start for Manchester United at Old Trafford. It couldn't have started any worse with the mix-up with Andre Onana and then obviously getting the red card as well. But in between that, it was quite good. What a strange...

Strange performance he had tonight in some ways. For sure. I mean, it's kind of weird, isn't it, to say that he impressed in parts given it was bookended by two absolutely catastrophic incidents that easily could have led to United losing that game and then it really would have been

disaster stations, alarm bells ringing. But yeah, I actually quite liked a lot of what he did. And even the first goal, yeah, he's obviously made a mistake there. It's a miscommunication with Onana. But I would probably put more of the blame on Onana because he's kind of running out of his goal and then kind of accelerates almost at the end where Dorg has obviously seen him and thinks, okay, that's where he is. He still should...

There still should be better communication between the pair of them. But I don't know. I kind of feel like Onana is the senior person in that situation. Should have taken more control of it. And to run that far seemed curious to me, given Dougie had the ball...

And it wasn't like he was under pressure from Philo Jean particularly. So yeah, weird one. And then I think the way he responded was really good. He was putting in, again, first-time crosses into the six-yard box. And Hoyland was just off them a couple of times. Good clearances from the Ipswich defenders to get in the way of it. And you could see Hoyland frustrated defensively.

that it was close, you know, the right kind of frustration, if you know what I mean, where it was, okay, we're getting there. And then even Dogo had a shot, you know, he seized on a ball where Garnaccio goes down looking for a penalty and, you know, gets it and just hits it hard. And, you know, another day that goes in and I just...

really liked his positivity it was even actually and I wonder if this is contribution to the red card but he basically got the ball off Villa Jean so kind of atoned in a way for his early mistake and then burst past Hutchinson and won a foul off him and Hutchinson kind of went in a bit hard on him he won the foul that it

We've seen against Everton, that's what he's good at. I think he won five fouls against Everton, for example, the most of any player on the pitch by a long way. So he's good at having the ball and shielding it. And I wonder if he kind of just wanted to then put one back on Hutchinson to show, OK, you're not going to bully me here. And obviously he gets it wrong. He gets a bit of the ball. It goes over the top. It was quite similar to that Zabarnia one for Bournemouth. It was worse than that, really, because...

Hutchinson's leg was planted and the studs go in quite high and you just knew as soon as the VAR, even before the VAR gets called, you're thinking he's going to be very fortunate to escape this one. So you can totally understand it. And the referee, fair enough to him, took a long time looking at it to make sure and then took Dogo away and explained it to him. And he went down the tunnel, got applause from the fans as he did so.

But yeah, I mean, he's going to be, I think, suspended for three games now because it's serious foul play. So that's a bit of a disappointing outcome given that he has shown, you know, sort of good moments, right, in what he's done so far. But yeah, I feel like United's resilience from that was pleasing. Yeah, disappointing for fans of playing left footers on the left wing as well. As he said, he admitted, yeah. Admitted in the press conference that we were all right, apparently. He's obviously been listening to Karl Anka's assessment

of Dogu's best positioning on the Athletic Andy

The start. So since Amarim became manager of Manchester United, that's now the 12th game where United have conceded the first goal in the Premier League. That's more than any other side. And we've had a lot of emails questioning Andre Onana, not just for that first goal, not even just for the second goal, which maybe there's a question mark as well, but really his performances of late and how he's contributing to Manchester United conceding goals potentially. I mean,

the milder end of the emails from Shakir I'm wondering what the sentiment is in regards to Onana what do you think? The sentiment is poor I think he had a good first half of the season and he's had a bad second half of the season the two goals were horrors tonight the first one was a really bad mix up and

He is the senior player there and he got it wrong. And then the second goal looked bad as well. It wasn't entirely on him. It was a good ball. There was a miscommunication with the defenders as well, but it's poor, poor, poor. And even more worrying than that is that when the ball goes near him, because there were a couple of pass backs from De Ligt and from Maguire in the second half,

You can feel there's a nervousness, and with good reason, because we've seen too many mistakes from Andre Onana. I understand the sentiment. A nervousness from him or the crowd, Andy? From the crowd. From the crowd. That was my observation anyway. Amarin's talked about it, to be fair. Yeah, and there's good reason why there's a nervousness, because we've seen too many mistakes. We got away with it tonight because Manchester United have won, but...

you're winding back to the start of last season Manchester United went out of the Champions League not winning at Galatasaray and Arnaud was badly at fault there so these mistakes are costly the cost in

in that case last year tens of millions of pounds and I was encouraged by what I saw at the start of this season even the end of last season I felt he'd settle down and players do deserve time to settle as well and the culture is different but he isn't playing well and I understand why people are annoyed and they're entitled to be annoyed yeah I mean I'm

So on that, you talk about the fans and himself, I think even sometimes it's his teammates because I've certainly heard from people in the past when he first joined the club that they weren't sure whether he would go long or go short in terms of passing it out from the back.

so if you've got that sort of uncertainty in that regard then I suppose if you've got teammates wondering where's he going to palm this ball obviously against Everton the rebound went up in the air then Maguire slow to react to Ducore but equally it was back into the danger zone even the penalty the

palm away, it was a good save I suppose from the shot but he palmed it back into the danger zone and obviously Ashley Young tries to win a penalty so I think he's been capable of extreme highs though this season as well I think probably it's three amazing double saves that he's done this season so he's got that athleticism he's got that shot stopping ability it's just that you're not quite sure exactly what you're going to get and I think that level of uncertainty will then inevitably creep into the rest of the team and

because you want stability behind you you want to know exactly what's going to come and I know football is a game of mistakes and you can't always legislate for everything but it feels like there's a fragility about that connection because even I mean he was kind of having a go at Dorgu for what happened for the first goal I don't

Not sure about that. And then also there was a moment later when Dorgo actually could have headed back to him, but he was actually deeper in his goal in this one and he instead headed it out for a throw-in and Onana was kind of shouting at him to sort of say, I don't know, what exactly can I calm down or bring it back to me? So there's obviously confusing elements going on there in defence. Yeah, I still don't think we've seen the best of his distribution either under Eritzen Haag or Ruben Amorim. And that was such a major factor in...

Manchester United targeting him in the first place I remember watching him we've talked about it many times but I remember watching him in the run to the Champions League final with Inter and just thinking blimey can you imagine having a goalkeeper like that for Manchester United and for whatever reason it just hasn't happened for him with the ball there's an assessment by Mark Carey and some of the Athletic

data writers that's on the app at the moment and it assesses where Manchester United are at under Ruben Amorim and Onana's distribution is one of the factors that they look into there so if you want to know more about that go and have a look at that it's also about the way that the defensive data hasn't really changed how the attack seems to have regressed a little bit as well since the new head coach has been in charge so yeah it's fascinating to have a look at that let's talk about

set-piece FC, Andy, because Critch got his stat out tonight. The last six Manchester United goals now have come from Bruno Fernandes' set-pieces, whether it be... Whoa, whoa, whoa. Critch's stat. He did tweet it. I know he tweeted it, but can I let the listeners know that it was my original thought? You know, I'm...

Maybe I'm being egotistical about that, but can I copyright that stat? I think you'd have to have actually written it down to copyright it. Fine, fine. I was too busy doing the briefing. Did you write it down? I wrote it down in copy that has not actually then been published. But listen, I'm not... It sounds woolly. Yeah, okay, fine. Critch.

You deserve it. Whoever noticed it, it's correct. So United's last six goals have come from Bruno Fernandes' set pieces, obviously including all three tonight. And it was the route back into the game and it was the route to win the game, Andy, as well. I had a chat with Kieran McKenna after he did his press conference and he was struck by how physically big Manchester United are, which I found interesting. And he went through them all and he was like, even Delo's a really big lad.

They said Manchester United should be very good at set pieces and he put it straight on to me. How effective have they been on set pieces this season? You've not been watching, Kieran. It's a very specific question and I just wish that I'd read Laurie's piece but unfortunately it wasn't published.

And I could have hit him back and gone, well, actually, you know, 17.4, whatever, whatever. The thing is, though, Andy, for the majority of the season, they've been very good at conceding from set pieces. Not scoring. I know. It's been encouraging. But, well, I think Bruno has been the best player of recent weeks. I think I said two weeks ago, what must he be thinking playing in this team?

I think he was man of the match tonight. He played in a much deeper position. He played as a six tonight. Agarty was in a more advanced role tonight. But his positioning, as well as his balls in. But right from the start, after eight minutes, he found Harry Maguire with a ball in. And Harry got a really powerful head on it. Harry's heading was exceptional. Bruno is in a real sweet moment. In fact, if it wasn't for Bruno...

I just wonder whether Manchester United would undoubtedly be even worse. But to score three as well, that's the fifth time United have scored three or more in the league this season. Once under Ten Hag, once under Ruud and now three times under Ruben Amarin. I don't know if scoring three goals three times is that much of a...

start to shout about is it there is a barrel and I've got a spoon and I'm just at the bottom of it I mean I'm all for us being positive for a change we've had people shouting at us for that but yeah don't put your head in your hands Andy yeah it's interesting though isn't it the set pieces because it

It felt like that was what they had to do. I mean, they're in those kind of relegation places competing. Laurie, you're allowed to score from set pieces. That's okay, isn't it? Absolutely, absolutely. But it feels like that's like, okay, let's go back to the...

the highest probability of being able to score. When you have a set piece, that's the highest probability you're going to score. Corners, close free kicks. And obviously with Bruno's delivery, he's the one that's been the source of all six of these goals. The one against Everton when Ugarte puts it in, it's like a second ball. But he's been at the heart of all these moments, particularly even the Leicester goal. I know it was offside, but it's a deep free kick from Bruno to

Harry and wasn't offside yeah it wasn't exactly the assistant referee never raised the flag in the in the history books that will go down as a very legitimate goal but it brings me back to when Bruno first arrived and in putting the ball on Harry's head for a win at Chelsea which I thought was you know an important way so they've obviously got that connection haven't they you know former captain current captain but it felt like set pieces I mean Ameren has gone

been banging on about set pieces since he kind of walked through the door almost and they do the warm-ups and they practice the set pieces you've got the coaches as kind of like opposition defenders and you do wonder what the players make of all that but in this

difficult time clearly going to the well you know scraping Andy's barrel you know is what I don't think it's anyone's idea of what United should be you know ultimately as a football club but and even actually Amarant touched on that well he sort of touched on the low block defensively

defensive approach that he's having to use and you could tell he's like I don't want to play this way and he even sort of said it suits Maguire and De Ligt and that's fine but in open spaces it's different for them and I kind of want to be more progressive we're getting into that nub of the heart of a lot of issues here at the moment when he talks about that and even Maguire and Fernandes afterwards were sort of touching on those kind of themes so yeah I don't think anyone's particularly happy with the style of play at the moment but it

it was a needs must basis tonight particularly with 10 men

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Towing capacity varies by configuration. See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual for additional information. Always secure cargo. I was interested in what Bruno Fernandes said in one of his answers to TNT, actually. He was sort of...

It felt like he was praising the team for sticking to the plan, even if they didn't necessarily agree with the way that they were being asked to play. I'm sort of paraphrasing exactly what he said, but he was basically making clear that whether players believe in what they're being asked to do, they need to do it and stick to it. And that's the only way they're going to get through the situation they're in at the moment, which is...

An interesting way of posing it. Simon got in touch on email, devilspod at theathletic.com if you want to get in touch. He said, have you noticed just how much pointing, orchestrating and even arguing was going on, particularly from Bruno about positioning when we had possession? Is that something that stuck out to you, Andy? I thought his positioning was fantastic tonight. I think I made that point earlier on.

I think reading between the lines when he's talking about what the manager wants and what the manager gets, it is interesting because the manager is dying on this hill of the formation that he's going to play. Do I believe that all the players are firmly behind it? I'm sure there's moments where they're thinking, look, we can't carry on losing all the time. And they had to change it tonight when they went down to 10. And I thought that they were pretty impressive with 10. I watched the game last Thursday when Ajax were down to 10.

And they were losing 2-0. And they still managed to win the tie in the Europa League. I was going to ask De Ligt about that because Laurie and I spoke to him after the game yesterday.

And I thought he was another one who had a decent game. But the sending off changed everything. So in the first half, United had 61% of possession, down to 27% in the second half. So that's certainly not what you want to see from Manchester United, especially at Old Trafford. But it was needs must. If you're down against 10, then you're down against 10. And the pitch was really wet. It was really slippy. When you're watching on television, you're not always aware what the conditions are like. It was a pretty rancid night.

in Manchester and there was some heavy tackles going in as well. There was a real tussle between Dilap and Harry Maguire and at one point this just seemed to acknowledge, yeah, we're having a proper fight here. And it was good. It was a proper English football game with tackles flying in and I know we praised Dorgue but to me it was a clear red card. Yeah. And it looked even worse when you saw the slow-mos on it and as soon as the referee went to that VAR screen,

And the fans in front of the screen were trying to reason with him. There was no reasoning there. It was a pretty bad error. And hopefully he'll learn from that. He didn't win the ball first. His studs were showing. It was a clear red. But there was another challenge when Hoyland was particularly angry. I think Darrow Shea went down. Disgraced that. Exactly. Hoyland quite rightly felt hard done to.

So there was a bit of edge there, but I think Ipswich like the quality. And I know we'll talk about Fulham later on in this. Fulham have got a lot more quality than Ipswich. Decent side, Andy, aren't they? I'm not going to say that again, but they are. They just are. Yeah, they are. And if anyone's going to be annoyed with Manchester United because we keep beating them at their place.

It's going to be Fulham. Let's talk about a negative tonight, certainly. Alejandro Garnaccio was the man taken off by Amorim just before half-time after the red card for Dorgu. He obviously didn't seem very happy about that decision. Walked straight down the touchline into the dressing room

has posted a picture on Instagram of him holding his nose and looking pretty unhappy without any comment or caption of any description. So obviously leaving that to interpretation, which you can interpret as a negative, I think. Ruben Amorim as well, Laurie spoke about it in the press conference. He was asked about it. And he then made the distinction with linking it to Marcus Rashford, which I didn't,

know where that came from, and then suggested that he'll speak to Garnaccio and that he's open to questions about that conversation in the next press conference. What did you think about all of that? Yeah, I mean, from a journalist's perspective, you've got to love the honesty, right? And it's interesting to talk about.

Was I surprised that Garnaccio went down the tunnel straight away? It was the wrong thing to do because there was time left. It wasn't that long before the interval. Okay, it was wet and rainy and Amrim mentioned that. He said that's obviously what he was trying to do, go and get warm. Clearly, he's frustrated there, isn't he? He's disappointed, maybe bordering on.

potentially, you know, to be substituted in that moment. Because I did think he was one of the more potent outlets when your team are down to 10 men because, you know, he will... A surprising choice in that sense, in a way. Clearly there's something going on there where, you know, we go back to the Etihad, don't we, where he was dropped from that. And, you know, it's not been a totally harmonious relationship the whole way through. There's been moments where it's felt like it's getting better and, yeah, they're more...

in harmony but clearly if he's in a situation it seemed to me that he was going to be you know locking things down then Garnaccio was the sacrifice and yeah Garnaccio's reacted the way he has there clearly that's going to fester I mean how quickly nips it in the bud let's see but yeah I'm open to questions at the next press conference on it he said so he said he's going to talk to Garnaccio I don't know if he actually came back out for the second half I mean I

Maybe I'm being a bit mischievous, sort of even questioning that. But I didn't see confirmation that he came back out. That's one question to ask. But yeah, the Rashford distinction, it was a question from a member of the media who was saying, you know, are you upset with that? And he was like, are you trying to make a distinction, draw a comparison with Rashford? And it was like... Where did that come from? It came from Amram. Did Amram bring that up himself? Yeah, it came from Amram. So, you know, obviously he's...

So no one had mentioned Rashford at that point? No one mentioned Rashford. It was just purely, are you upset with him? And he was saying, are you trying to compare it with Rashford? And I'll speak to him.

I feel that he had a right to be annoyed because he was playing so well. He was really bright. He was causing problems when he got the ball. He got smashed by Tuanzabi, who also had a nice applause when he came off from Manchester United fans. And I felt that Garnaccio was unfortunate because it wasn't his fault that Dugu did that tackle. That said, I feel that in 10 years' time, Garnaccio will look back and think,

maybe I wasn't as mature as I could have been there. And I think the manager knows that. I think Garnaccio has got it in him to be, he's a heart on the sleeve type of player. Do you remember against Leicester on one of, I think the first of the 67 times we played Leicester this season at Old Trafford and he felt that he didn't have the fans on side and I thought, nah,

Nah. So he's emotive, he's emotional. He was annoyed because he was playing well and because he'd started the game, which hadn't done a lot. And I get it, but this is just a small one for the manager to squat away, I feel. Okay.

OK, next week's Talk of the Devils Extra will look at Ineos' plan to return Manchester United's men's and women's teams to the top of English football. They're using the club's 150th anniversary in 2028 as a deadline and the schemes dubbed Mission 21 and Mission 1 aim to make the team's title winners again.

So the question we're asking on the pod next week, is the ambition to be praised or perhaps are the executive team setting themselves up to fail against the weight of expectation with both sides, of course, some way off?

title winning form at the minute. Let us know what you think. Send in your questions as well. Devilspod at theathletic.com or use the hashtag TOTDX on social media and that podcast will be available for you next Wednesday. In the meantime, we're going to talk about the announcement that was made to Manchester United staff on Monday afternoon by the leadership team led by Omar Barada in a meeting with

An email later basically confirmed that up to 200 redundancies are now going to be made at Manchester United after the 250, of course, that have already been made. Laurie and others have a huge explainer on Manchester United's week and this decision on the Athletic. So you can go and have a look at that if you want to know all the details. But Laurie, what's your immediate thoughts on this decision?

further announcement by the club to streamline the workforce because understandably the mood has been hit pretty badly at Manchester United again with this. Yeah it definitely has I think the mood was already some people would say to me on the floor and you know so further redundancies being made is only going to exacerbate that and I

We anticipated it, you know, it had been trailed in the Athletic and even, you know, at the end of the year where we had the big read on Ineos and, you know, we mentioned Omar Barada's words at an all-staff meeting where he said, you know, this year has been tough and I can't promise next year won't be tough as well. So I think that was something that people were alert to. Although that being said, you know, when we were told about the redundancies last year, the 250 or so,

that was said to be kind of ripping the plaster off and the one big strike against the workforce that was necessary and it'd be a clean cut at that point. So then to come back again and reduce it even more dramatically, I think is something that is a change of course. Why that is, you know, I guess they will feel, and this comes from to Jim Ratcliffe, right? It's to Jim Ratcliffe that is...

absolutely pushing this agenda for reduced workforce. Had it become bloated, I think that's probably a fair characterisation, but equally, where are these cuts happening and is it then going to lead to a more efficient, better organisation? I think that's the big question. So, yeah, there was a meeting at Old Trafford in the Manchester suite. I actually went down just to sort of see, you know,

what the mood was kind of like, you know, not, not trying to prey on people, but just make sure that I was there, you know, firsthand to kind of,

make sure it was happening and it was over very quickly you know half an hour I think it was scheduled to be an hour and a half and clearly they felt you know we're going to pass on this information and then let you go and that was that you know I think certainly people in the room were probably thinking you know is this the right tone to be striking in terms of you know fighting against adversity you know because a lot of those people won't be there you know past this point so even the tone of the announcement being sort of publicly made

As a transformation plan. And being sent to push notification on the app. That's because they want the hits on their website, right? Or at least want to control the way it's presented. I mean, they were even told, the staff in the meeting, that this was going to be released because they didn't want it to be leaking elsewhere and they wanted to have a clear narrative around it. And I think it was basically released

at the same time as they all walked out the building. So it was a very quick operation, planned. And yeah, I mean, I think to frame it like that is misguided because you're talking about people's lives here and okay, I get it. It's a business and you wanna make it

more efficient or you want to streamline it but I feel like there's ways of going about it and I thought that wasn't the right thing to do to send a push notification to the app to herald it. I know we'll get into it more on Extra next week Andy and some of the specifics of this decision and the direction of the club as well really but just in terms of

the feeling that it's setting for Manchester United at the moment. I mean, we've talked there about the mood at the club and how staff are feeling about going to work, but even how fans are feeling about United at the moment. Obviously, the performances on the pitch are leaving a little bit to be desired. Not so much tonight. I think people will be really encouraged by the spirit and the fight that the team showed winning down to 10 men, but just how it feels to be a Manchester United fan at the moment, how it

how it reads really these sort of decisions being made and the sort of tone it sets to have a positive end to this season as well. I asked Amber in the press conference, is this whole situation making it harder to win matches? I don't know what you think about the way these decisions are being read, whether they're necessary for the business side of the club

it just feels like it's piling yet more scrutiny and pressure on the team. People losing their jobs is never a good thing, especially when those people have done nothing wrong. If we're looking for blame here, blame the Glazers.

And the hangover now, which is stronger than it has ever been for 20 years. So does it affect the players? So Ruben Amorim has spoken about how his players live in a bubble and they live in a financial bubble for sure, but they also live in a protected bubble as well. Now they're coming into contact with staff members who are worried about the jobs and the person serving the food at Carrington,

We'll be worried about the job because the cuts, I understand, are going to come pretty equally between the football side and the commercial side. Everybody at Manchester United is worried about the job now. That doesn't boost the mood. That keeps the mood low. The mood's been low for six or seven or eight months now. And I put this point to Jim Ratcliffe and he said the mood will lift when the football team start winning.

And that's true. I went to Besiktas on Saturday, who were winning and winning and winning. And I thought, wow, so this is what it's like walking into a football club where all the staff are happy because they're winning and the staff there are cutting on the bonuses of the first team winning. At Manchester United, the opposite is true. And I get the reasons for the cut.

And I get the reasons for Manchester United having to come into line with similar sized clubs in terms of the revenues and the ratios. And Manchester United had become bloated. Manchester United was geared up to be a team which was competing at the top end of the Champions League year after year. And because the team are so far from that point, this is why there are cutbacks. But it is really brutal that,

when people are losing their jobs. And I wrote about it last July in The Athletic. I hoped that that would be the only time that I wrote about it. But I speak to people who lost their jobs last July from Manchester United. And they're hurting. Not all of them. Some have moved on quicker than others. Some of them, their confidence is shattered. Now, they didn't have a contract for 40 or 50 years at Manchester United. Humans can lose their jobs. It is a fact of life.

I remember my dad losing his job two or three times. I remember times being really, really difficult because the economy in Britain when I was younger, there were times when it was really, really difficult. And it's unusual because Manchester United has only grown and grown and grown. And the staff did need cutting back, but it's awful. And we get...

a succession of negative news stories. So that plays into the mood among the fan base and the players might live in a bubble, but they can't isolate themselves from it. I mean, I'd spoken to one who just thought, I'm just going to keep my head down because the players obviously earn astronomical amounts compared to what the man on the street earns. Johnny Evans at the start of this season, when he was talking in America, he said, I know these people who are losing their jobs. This is real life. And

We go to football because it's supposed to entertain us. It's supposed to keep us happy.

Usually the team winning might do that. So when you're hit by a succession of negative stories, it's pretty unusual as well. It is a perfect storm. But if we're going to blame anyone, blame the Glazers. And there were significant protest chants against the Glazers tonight at the Ipswich match. Yeah, I definitely think fans are well onto that, aren't they? They understand the financial predicament of the club. And obviously the more...

podcasts like ours and the media generally open up this situation and show the finances to fans the more they understand the root of the situation the PR of it Laurie though as well I mean if there's not enough reason to laugh at Manchester United for being in the lower halves of the Premier League lines like there's no hot meals to staff at Old Trafford anymore I

soup and a roll is going to be available from next season when the renovation of Carrington is complete for non-players even sort of first team staff potentially that's how they're going to be provided for it just reads terribly doesn't it? Yeah I mean we're talking about bread rolls and soup and it's like Oliver Twist isn't it but clearly it's not that case in reality it's

you know, I suppose how many places would give, you know, your food, you know, as part of your package, you know, we don't get that, for example, at the Athletic when we're down in London, you know, you pay for your lunch. So it's... Poor you, Laurie. No, no, no. World's smallest violin. But... Other clubs are comparable. I mean, Manchester City pay for the lunch. I was at Everton this week when the announcement was made on Monday. They also pay for their lunches. So it's not,

like it's something that's completely out of the ordinary to make this sort of decision. It's just that it just feels like the PR around it all is just really bad. Yeah, I mean, because I think they announced, didn't they, saves them a million pounds to stop the canteen at Old Trafford. And so that's... The idea from Ratcliffe is that you put these...

you know strategies in place to you know create a mentality around the club that you know no excess is tolerated and that then should trickle into the real issue which is the football side of things which is why United have got these huge losses and then added on top of that as Andy's touched on the Glazer debt and the interest payments that go out you know the

a million pounds a year is absolutely inconsequential to the amount of money that is going out in interest rates and then being lost on player trading you know 300 million pounds in transfers still owed by United so that's what the issue is there where you

you're like, well, okay, you're attacking that thing where people are just trying to make an honest day's end and they get a bit of a perk for working for United because they probably, I think some people certainly could earn more elsewhere but they do it for the love of the club and,

and therefore it is then sort of taken away and they think, well, okay, we're just getting sort of slapped around the face here. And we're told that we're the problem, you know, all this, you know, poor form by the team and the bad choices made by the recruitment department and managers not working out and executives and owners, you know, I mean, obviously it's absolutely incredible. We have to remind ourselves how much the Glazers have taken out of the club for the honour of having the Glazers owners, you know, a billion pounds in excess of.

and then it's the people that are working there on a day-to-day basis that are told well actually you're the issue because we're going to have to take this meal off you and you've been living to excess previously. Yeah, like I say it just doesn't read very well at all does it but we'll talk more about this whole situation on Talk The Devils Extra next week including answering all of your questions that you've sent in but if you want to get involved with the conversation by all means devilspod at theathletic.com or use the hashtag TOTDX on social media.

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Right, let's preview Fulham then. FA Cup fifth round, Sunday, Old Trafford. The Cup's absolutely crucial to rescue any sort of satisfaction from Manchester United's season, Andy. How big is this game on Sunday against Fulham? There's two ways Manchester United can get into Europe next season. Winning the FA Cup or winning the Europa League. We saw what the FA Cup did for us yesterday.

Last season, it gave us the best moment of, I don't know, last seven or eight years, beating Manchester City. And we've knocked Fulham out of the FA Cup in recent years. It's a big, big game. I think it's a very, very difficult game. Part of me would almost prefer the game was at Craven Cottage.

Although away from the Premier League, imagine what they'd be charging us for tickets if it was down there. I'm pretty nervous about it. The season's at a really important juncture now because we've got Fulham and then we've got Real Sociedad. And the season still feels alive because of those two cup competitions. In the league, it looks like the season's going to run out before Manchester United get too high up the table. I always hope for the turnaround.

I don't really see any evidence of that happening. But he can get through in the Cups. Still relatively early stages in both the Cups, isn't it? Because it's the fifth round of the FA Cup. It's not like we're in the semis. Last 16 of both, yeah. Yeah, it's the last 16 of both. So there's still a long, long way to go. And it's the start of March.

I don't want to sound too despondent, but I'm pretty nervous about both of them. The thing is, Laurie, there's been a lot of excitement about some of the teams who have gone out of the FA Cup already. Obviously, Manchester United not. Arsenal out, Liverpool are out, Chelsea are out, Tottenham are out. But of the teams still in there, there's Crystal Palace, there's Bournemouth, there's Wolves, there's Newcastle, there's Brighton. What's the theme there? There's not even Forest. Yeah, yeah.

I'll let you work it out. There's Aston Villa as well, who Manchester United haven't lost to already this season. Come on. There's still some very tough sides in there, and that's obviously having to get past Fulham. That said, remember when we talked up the record at Craven Cottage against Fulham?

Well, there's actually only been one defeat in the past 21 meetings against Fulham. 17 wins during that time, although the defeat did come at Old Trafford in the Premier League last season. Do you remember Harry Maguire equalising in the last minute in a glorious rescue of a football match, only to see Alex Iwobi score the winner in stoppage time at the other end? The counter attack, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I do. You wanted more from me on that one, did you, Ian? Sorry, the original point was there's still some very good teams left in this cup and it's not as much of a given as it seems with Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea not in there.

No, I need to be the positive to balance out Andy's, you know, slight despondency. I mean, okay, it's realism, isn't it, by Andy? But let's be, you know, let's be upbeat about this. I feel like Andy's tub-thumping dressing room addresses need to be brought back, actually. And this is exactly the time that we need them, where we say to the players...

This is what it's all about, representing Man United, winning trophies. You did it last season. Go and defend your trophy and then go to San Sebastian and go and do them as well. I like it. I did try before the game today. I put a message onto Twitter saying that

Because I've just been in Istanbul where I experienced some incredible atmospheres. Old Trafford should be like this. The fans really need to be getting behind the team now. And I just got this wall of despondency. I think they did a bit in the second half, Andy. You know when Ugarte was revving them up, Casemiro was revving them up. You could tell there was moments where they felt our team needs us here. And I know it's not...

and i was i was and actually i was a bit worried about it going into the game because you're seeing i think third uh ticket sale websites you know with with claims of tickets available and i know maybe not all of them were legitimate but there was certainly a lot of talk of people you know passing their tickets on to other members you know legitimately and when the game started with the rain and everything you know five minutes before kickoff there was lots of empty seats and actually it filled out it was a

it was a packed stadium again, but I was a bit nervous about that. But you're right. There was, there was obviously that big standup, you know, if you hate Glazers chant that was around the stadium at one point in terms of what you're saying about the protest noises. And then I think there was, yeah, but it wasn't, I know what you mean. It wasn't like absolute cacophony of noise and that's what you're asking for, right? On Sunday. Yeah, but I'm,

I think it's unrealistic as well because I'm asking for a massive cultural change there as well. When I'm trying to get Old Trafford to be like the best of the grounds or from the Balkans or Turkey or Argentina, it just doesn't happen like that. It sort of comes from the performance as well. I know we've talked about it, haven't we, already? Yeah, and maybe we need that turning point. Remember Liverpool last year in the FA Cup? That was probably the last time that the Old Trafford atmosphere was truly great.

Because it was Liverpool, because of the circumstances, because of the FA Cup. It can happen and the fans are willing. The crowd tonight was another sell-out crowd, 73,000 to watch that. Tickets are becoming easier, of course they are, because the team are not very good. But it could come a convincing display against Fulham and confidence absolutely shoots up going into the game in San Sebastian. I want to believe you, Laurie. I want you to be absolutely right, but

I'm also trying to be realistic of what I see and what I hear and the players who are available as well. I think both games are going to be very difficult. It's a big week though, isn't it? There's no question about that. And you're right to try and inject some positivity, Laurie, because a win is a win tonight and hopefully that tees up better. I mean, Fulham also won last night against Wolves. They rotated the team a little bit, which gave you an impression of how Marco Silva saw the priorities change.

in his week heading to Old Trafford on Sunday but United if they are to get anything out of this season need to do well in these cup competitions and it's something that Eric Ten Haag managed to do last year and obviously the league season this time around is even worse but you know financially and emotionally these cups have to bring something for this season to be considered anything more than a disaster right? Yeah absolutely and

yeah to Andy's point you're kind of down to the bare bones particularly with Dorgue being suspended and you know I mean he had eight players on the bench so it wasn't even the full complement tonight of nine and two of them were young goalkeepers so yeah I don't know if anybody is going to be fit you know for Sunday and then obviously you flick ahead to Thursday maybe there's the FA Youth Cup actually on Friday night away at Arsenal and the Emirates so it was interesting Chido Obi was on the bench tonight I

presume he'll start in that game on Friday but he might actually also be needed on Sunday in the seniors so it's kind of who can fit in where I mean I thought Xerxes performance tonight was really encouraging in that and actually he came off to cheers and it was kind of like a nice full circle moment for him after the you know the jeers of Newcastle and obviously you know Bruno Fernandes ran himself into the ground you know I think he's phenomenal you know and you could see how tired he was at the end of the game and

So you've got these kind of characters there, as Andy says, we spoke to De Ligt afterwards and I know equally he has his critics, but in certain moments I think he sort of shows himself with that leadership mentality that he's got. He speaks like a Manchester United player, I think Matthijs De Ligt as well. I mean, I interviewed him really early on and then interviewed him maybe about six weeks ago and the way he sounded and the way he talked about the situation was,

the type of messaging. It's an unquantifiable in a way to say something like that, but it just felt like he was striking the right sort of tones. He seemed like the right sort of character, whatever you think about his ability and the type of centre-back he is. Yeah, and I think that potentially rubbing off on Lenny Yorra, I thought he had a really good second half in both...

sort of ends of the pitch where he was sort of heading balls clip also getting forwards and he actually set up Rasmus Hoyland for a really nice chance but Rasmus... His progressive passes tonight into the box I think was the highest of all Manchester United players actually. Oh right wow okay well I mean his progressive pass to Rasmus Hoyland should have ended in a shot and it ended in a dummy and Rasmus Hoyland left the pitch having not had a shot for the 13th time in 23 Premier League matches.

So, I mean, I know I bang this from a lot and I apologise. It's probably unfair really, but he does, he needs to just, you know, back himself and take these chances because that's the only way it's going to turn. And I know it's easier said than done, but he did have a chance there. So, you know,

Okay, one misstep in that moment, hopefully against Fulham, if he gets the opportunity, he's taking it and that would be a lovely progression for him. Yeah, absolutely. You finished it on a semi-negative, so thank you for that, Laurie, considering we were trying to have a bit of a rallying cry at the end of the podcast. But we got there in the end, didn't we, one way or another? There is a bit more positivity heading into Sunday against Fulham. The spirit that the team showed tonight and...

hopefully that can bring even better for the FA Cup because, boy, the Manchester United need picking up at the moment. The club, the fans, the entire institution really. But for the minute, Laurie and Andy, it's just gone ten past midnight in the early hours of Friday morning, but it's been nice to have your company for the last 45 minutes or so. So thank you very much. And thank you to every single one of you for listening along as well. We'll speak to you again after Fulham.

Take care. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.