Mount at the double: United are off to Bilbao
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Manchester United!

Cruise through to the Europa League final for the Salvation Derby against Tottenham. There's no seasons being salvaged in Bilbao. Don't worry about that. It's all about silverware. We might preview West Ham later if we can be bothered. Good night. Yeah.

I'm saying yeah now, and the headline is Manchester United are in a European final. But for that first hour... Crap, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. It was full of tension. The team weren't playing well. They were playing within themselves. They kept giving the ball away. I was tearing my hair out, mate. I really...

Well, you were sat near me. Can we ride the wave for a little while before we bring everyone down? Everyone's going to be waking up listening to this, hoping for a bit of excitement, a bit of optimism, looking forward to the final, and Mitten's popped the bubble already. The only thing I'll say on that period of time is it was very amusing for me to be near Mr Mitten in such circumstances. How much am I allowed to reveal to people? You said at half-time. I'll let you know how much I can tell the listeners, depending on...

what the result was and obviously United cruised it in the end so he was listen he was very vocal in being upset about some of the play that was being done but then

Mason Mount scored. Your boy. You should have seen how excited he was. He had to go to the toilet. He basically scored. For a bit of quiet time. I've just got to excuse myself for a few minutes. I've got a picture of him. He was so, so happy. Is this for the first or the second? The second one, he just... What can you say about the second? New trousers. Listen, that is the quality that I've been telling you about. The guy, you know, he doesn't just score against Brentford, finally.

But seriously, I mean, those two goals, as a pair of goals in a European semi-final, wow. Yeah. You know, a turn and finish from your right and then a touch and a hit from, what, 50 yards with your left at an angle? Yeah.

Everyone was thinking shoot, but usually that's a sort of air shot and it's an embarrassment and everyone's like, oh, we shouldn't have probably said anything there. It was so pure, that strike. We were right behind him. On his wrong foot as well. Yeah, in the press box. You could just see it. As soon as he hit it, you're like, that is in. What a strike. And you could see how much it meant to him. He savoured it, submerged by his team-mates. You could see how much Ruben Amarin was enjoying it. Talk about me having a big smile on my face. What about Ruben Amarin in that moment? Laurie Whitwell is a football savant.

I don't even know what that means, but I'm presuming it's something good. It predicts the future. OK. Mason effing Mount Bilbao, here we go. That was from Andrew. And there was a few dozen other emails which were along very similar lines. I'm going to give it to him. He's had a very, very hard time.

in his two years at Manchester United but that was a brilliant final 20 minutes or so from him. Yeah and not just him but we should talk about him because I'm obviously sat next to his biggest fan and he wants to hear more about him. Mason Mount needs to arrive as a player at Manchester United and I think he did that tonight. As Laurie said this is the semi-final of a European competition. That goal, that first goal completely changed the game because United were not playing well at all.

Here you go again. Yeah, I think... No, no. It colours the victory they were in. It does because it was awful. They couldn't even pass the ball to each other. I mean... It was so bad. It was so, so bad. I was getting so frustrated. I was. I was seriously and really getting bleached. Oh, it was. But, alright, positives. I thought the subs were great. I thought Ahmad was great.

Breath of fresh air that kid isn't he? Brilliant. Within like 10 seconds of coming on he was running at goal. Of the players who started I thought Lenny Oro had one of his best games for Manchester United. He's been good in this competition. I thought Casemiro went from someone I'm thinking is this like someone who knows Casemiro at the start to being one of the most important players in the

I thought he really got into it. That's like a microcosm of his season, really, at United this year. They've lasted 18 months, really. Yeah, yeah. And who else? Mahari was giving the ball away in the first half. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Lindelof was giving the ball away. Dogu. No, no. Everyone was giving the ball away. I don't think United strung two or three passes together at all. I mean, we were talking on the last podcast about coming out and being positive and making sure there's no nerves and...

settling the tyre as quickly as possible. It was the opposite. Yeah, absolutely. They looked nervous, didn't they? And they looked like they were basically trying to bait the press from... Why are they nervous? They're 3-0 up. I know, but I don't know. It must be a slightly...

stranger atmosphere I'm not absolving it at all I'm trying to explain it or understand it a bit but they were obviously you know trying to I don't know bring Athletic Club onto them and pass through they did actually create a couple of nice moves you know with that

direct pass through the middle particularly with Bruno Garnaccio should have scored in the first half shouldn't he and that was a lovely moment from Dougie Dougie was kind of chaotic wasn't he some good quite a lot of bad but I think overall okay right you're winting at me but I'm seeing a lot of love online no well the ball was good through to Garnaccio and Garnaccio should have scored that but he'd given the ball away 76 times in the previous five minutes

The last half hour was brilliant. Old Trafford found its voice. Singing about going to Bilbao. I should mention the away fans. Thought they were fantastic. Went to a great in Manchester all day. I was on a flight with them all. They were so friendly. It's a great city that we're going to be going to for the final. And that colours everything because we're in the final. They carried on singing. 4,000 of them. Way beyond the final whistle. They're going to Bilbao but so are we.

They're going to Bilbao a lot quicker than we are. We've got two weeks to build things up, haven't we? I thought Lenny Oro was excellent, actually, for a teenager. And you've spoken to him, Larry. We have spoken to him. And I know that Andy usually tells us about these mixed zone quotes that are in Bargo that he can't tell us about and gives us a kind of vague... You can spill the beans, can you? We can spill the beans. It's good to go, baby. The beans can be spilled. I mean, I'm trying to remember what he actually said, though. For f***'s sake.

Can't get the staff Andy can you? So you've just spoken to him and you've literally been speaking to him ten minutes ago. Do you know what I can do? I can play in here. Producer Ollie can do this because he's magic. He can play in a little bit of Lenny Oro. The listeners can savour that and when you listen back to the podcast it will remind you of what he said so you can write your copy up.

Did he speak well though considering how well he played? He spoke very well he spoke as he plays calm relaxed I mean there were some nervy moments I think but equally In the interview? No not in the interview he was very chilled in the interview I couldn't even hear him it was too far away what was the most interesting thing he said? He said this Yeah of course I've tried to bring the ball forwards to help the team to score goals because that was really important for us

to not finish the game in 1-0. So, of course, I tried to go forward, pass to Mason and he did really well. So we're really happy with the win. Yeah, like you said, it was difficult for me in the beginning with the injuries, even with the performance when I returned on the pitch. So now I start to be 100%, you know, I start to be good.

and I hope to be good for the end of the season and for next season. Yeah, of course, like you said, I'm still a young player, but in the PhDs, it doesn't mean nothing. And when you see a big club like Man United, you need to settle really quick because the fans are waiting for you, even with the big transfer like I had. So, yeah, this is important for me to settle really quick, sorry, to be good.

Of course, when you play for Man United, you need to believe of this. You know, this is a club of trophies. You know, they win a lot of trophies. And I think in the final, this will be important for us to think about this, to know that we're Manchester United and we need to win trophies.

There we go. Enjoy that, listeners. Fantastic podcasting. I shook me so cock sure because I was told that Casimiro's going to come out and going to speak in Spanish, so I'm just waiting with me. This is fucking glorious to watch, by the way. Just waiting with me sombrero on. Here he comes out. He says, hey, good to see you. Do you want a word? No.

I speak Spanish, I speak Spanish. No, I didn't say that. He comes out. You know, you're just thinking this is gonna, you're just gonna reach the final and he just walks straight out the ground. Right. A nice one. I suppose scoring in semi-finals of European competitions still should be pretty significant to him. He's not really a known goal scorer, is he?

But, well, he has been for United, to be fair, particularly except pieces. He's done well in this competition. Yeah, well, Champions League Casemiro has turned into Europa League Casemiro, as Carl was telling me before the game as well. So I've got to give some flowers to Carl for a little bit of prediction on that score. Where is he? He's in Rubens' press conference still. OK.

Right, okay. He'll be joining us shortly, hopefully. Shall I try and go back to Lenny Oro? No, no, no. Everyone's heard it now, just because you can't remember still. That goal came off Casemiro's what? Shoulder. I don't know, sat over there. I think they had a replay. It seemed pretty clever. He ducked as if, no, I've nothing to do with this. Yes, I am getting the net there. Was he not trying to head it then? No.

Surely he was trying to head it. That was my interpretation. I think he was double blagging. Andy's just basically saying this now in the podcast so that hopefully Casimiro hears it, hears that he's giving him praise and maybe stops in the mix zone next time he speaks to him in Spanish. By the way, Ian just slipped a bit of Spanish in there, didn't he? Si, si, si, si. Muy bien. Someone's been having lessons. Have you been having lessons? Recrear o mas practicar, no? Muy bien. Fantástico.

You two can show me around Bilbao then, can't you? Yeah, we're going. Can't speak Basque. No, I teach... And you can, can't you? I can say about four words of Basque. I know what the good decent drinks are there, so... I put a picture on Twitter before...

Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I thought it was quite funny. I didn't reply to it. And I said, I'm surrounded by athletic fans. And I got a message off someone straight away saying, ask them for tickets for the final. I've already booked my flights. And I looked at the person asking me. It was a profile picture of the moon. I thought, I'm not just going to ask.

Six strangers. Excuse me, lads. On the off chance that you've got any tickets for the final, any chance you can give them to a fella who just contacted me on Twitter whose profile picture is the fucking moon. Sorry, I shouldn't be swearing here. But what we are going to get now is like two weeks of complete silly season. I already had a fella the other day. We're going to have a lot of issues now. Hotels. Getting there. It's pretty tricky to get to.

No one will have any sympathy at all for the journalists, but they're really struggling to find places. There's loads of people going via the moon, going via everywhere. And it's tricky and it puts a little bit of a damper on it. I'm just hoping that tickets start to filter through. And I'm actually quite optimistic that could happen.

There's a really good community of Manchester United fans who do help each other out for face value and it's still really strong. And you get the bad headlines on social media of people trying to rip people off.

And there is Karl Anka laughing because he's joined us. You've just been in Ruben's press conference. Let's hope you do better than Laurie Whitwell at this game. What did he just say? Oh, he said loads of really good things and... I told you it's hard to remember sometimes. He said loads of really good things. He was asked about Mason Mount. Have we already given jokes to Laurie about how much he loves Mason Mount? Yeah, but you can do it again. Yeah, as much as you love Mason Mount, I think Amarin loves him even more. He was asked about his 32 teeth all shining when Mason Mount scored.

and Amarillo's response was hey it's not just me if you look it was the whole team it was the whole coaching bench and it talked about how the reason him and his coaching staff and indeed the substitutes are so happy about Mason Mount is because they see all the hard work he does at Carrington they see how hard the the phrase was how hard he works to be available and to try and be available as well look

Mason Mount is a modern football coach's dream. I've heard Gareth Southgate talk effusively about him. I've heard Frank Lampard talk effusively about him. I've heard Thomas Tuchel talk effusively about him. Coaches see Mason Mount and basically go, oh, that's my nephew. And he seems to have done it again today. There were also other questions about whether or not he's going to be wrapping up players in cotton wool.

And he said some really interesting things that's currently embargoed for the Friday section. Embargo, bingo, you can take that one off. Embargo and big goes there. What I will say is, even though Ruben Amarin's an honest man, and you can sometimes lure him to a trap, I think he might be a decent poker player. He's... When I'm trying to wriggle something out in these embargo bits, he's a bit better like, of course, I could tell you more. I'm not going to. I think he has chilled out a little bit with his answers. He's chilled out a bit in the press conference. He's still absolutely furious on the touchline. Oh yeah, but I mean in terms of...

Some of the wilder things that he said earlier on in the season. I wonder if he's getting wise to it. He's not getting sucked into the... Roy Keane said this, or Paul Scholes said this, or another former Manchester United player said this about you. What do you think? But he's also not getting sucked into my head saying this thing that I'm going to blurt out and regret. He did, though...

back into the worst team in United's history line in the pre-match press conference so maybe did sort of fall into that particular trap although it was a softer more reasoned response I think in that sense he basically was saying well we still literally are the worst United team in Premier League history because we're going to finish 15th so whatever it's factually true now mid part of the season there was still a lot of time to do something about it I've just watched Mason Mount and Luke Shaw walk out look

onto the pitch at Old Trafford Laurie will snap it that's his brother that's his brother-in-law and there's a young boy there I don't know if that's Luke Shaw's son did you see the news out then see how his brain worked then he just straight onto it imagine that though just having a kick about with your dad if it is Luke Shaw's son

and your dad's mate who's just scored two in a European semi-final at Old Trafford. It's not bad. Amram was asked about how the substitutes changed the game, and he gave a very effusive answer about not simply the three, but also the attributes they brought. He mentioned how Garnaccio was quite tired, he said. He gave a lot, and when you bring on a man that gives a different element to those wide areas.

And also, again, talked about how much he really likes Mason Mount. It's fun, isn't it? He's not always got the subs right, so he should be credited for getting the subs right. There was a few groans when those numbers were held up, to be honest. Yeah, for Masraoui especially. He was on a yellow. He was knackered as well, wasn't he? I thought they were targeting him to get him on a red. They definitely were. They were. They were doing that, and we could have printed that from the get-go, really. I think there was one where Casemiro, a player went down, and Casemiro...

was over him screaming at him because he was so angry that he was obviously trying to get him sent off or whatever. The player went down holding his face with Bruno. Players were going down next to Masraoui particularly after being booked. So yeah, I think that was a sensible substitution. And actually the three that he brought on and it changed the game didn't it?

They were all players, they are all players, who have got high technical ability that can look after the ball and that can make things happen. Exactly what they were missing. He knew that though, but he's obviously protecting them. Well, Amir's just come back from his ankle injury. He doesn't want to lose him again. He didn't even think he was going to play this season again. So we have to remember that. And clearly with Shaw and Mount, they've been through so much with United and with muscle injuries. For him, probably he's thinking, what's the point of...

risking them from the start and something happens and then you're losing them for the final so he's obviously just trying to get them to that start line of the final they're all there now it seems hopefully you know um clearly i did ask him are those three going to be able to play 90 minutes and i was like poker face

Kind of. He made a noise and it sounds like, well, no, they're not going to be playing 90 minutes against West Ham and it's going to be a continued progression and he needs to protect. And he, again, honed in on Mount. I don't think you're going to see Mount play 90 minutes. Mount, Mount, Mount. Where does your love of Mount come from? It's the haircut, isn't it? Carl's got the loving on Mount. I actually, I've said this on the podcast, but I interviewed him when he was at Derby and he was brilliant. Just like really cool, down-to-earth guy, answered everything, you know, very pleasurable. So,

yeah and then maybe that's my muscle memory at the back of my mind then he comes to United and he's having a tough time and I think that his technique and his quality has always been there and as you said he obviously works very very hard off the book alright you two then would you rather have two weeks in the Maldives with your loved one no

or a day at Alton Towers just you and Mason Mount I thought you were going to mention Liz Well when you mention Alton Towers man I love theme parks so roller coasters the Smiler Nemesis come on that's great I'm going to tell your lovely wife here go on you two weeks in the Maldives Maldives I need a holiday I've been looking at football too much I don't want to be I like Mason Mount and my

Enjoyment of Mason Mount was started during Euro 2020 when he was really good for England. Look, coaches love him because not only because he can score goals like that, because he's an absolute dog out of possession. And I've said before, he used to be really good at making tackles and not getting booked, but he seemed to be picking up loads. Didn't get one today. Even that's improving.

Well, while Laurie sorts out his excitement, we'll just take a quick break and then we'll come back with more reflections on Manchester United's 7-1 aggregate win over Athletic Club. What have we got here then? Fizzy Fishes.

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When I started podcasting, it felt like I had to figure everything out myself. Booking guests, figuring out rundowns, editing the show and publishing it. It seemed like the list of to-dos got bigger and bigger. And when you're starting off with something new, it seems like that just happens.

We'll be right back.

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in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into a with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash theathletic. Go to shopify.com slash theathletic. shopify.com slash theathletic.

You know that feeling when a girl who gets it gives you a genuine compliment? Suddenly, you're strutting through the streets, sending motivational voice notes to the group chat, manifesting a new man. That's the Tresemme LaMeller gloss effect, babe. It's an unstoppable kind of confidence reserved only for the real girls' girls.

And now we've bottled it. We're talking shampoo, conditioner, leave-in cream, shine spray, and a finishing oil that's seriously too glossy to gatekeep. 72 hours of salon level shine. That's gloss that gives, girl. And it's available everywhere. So go out there, get glossy, and give gloss with Tresemme's new LaMeller Gloss Collection. You know something else that happened tonight? Rasmus Hoyland scored. He nearly missed though. Yeah. I might have to set him up.

He couldn't... Him and Joro. Yeah, Joro, wasn't it? No. Joro to Ahmad. Joro to Dogu to Ahmad. To Ahmad, yeah. I mean, he couldn't... It was a tap in there. You have to explain it. Right, so the way I remember it is Lenny Joro strolled up through the side of the pitch, yeah? Yes.

Gave it to Dorgue, who gave it to Ahmad, who did really well, put the ball in, and Hoyland tapped it in. Nearly put it wide. Yoro sort of steps out of the way, and then it just sort of... If you talk and the microphone's not there, then no one will hear it. I'm just really excited. Yoro is in front, and he sort of lets it skid past him, and then it sort of just collides off...

Hoyland standing foot I'm not sure how much he knew about it but it's good that he got a goal because he needs it he really needs it yeah so that's his first Europa League goal in 2025 it now puts him just one goal off the top scorers though in the competition he's got six the top scorers there's three of them on seven which includes Bruno Fernandes wow

and he's now got two in his past three games so could there be an end of season spree incoming for Rasmus Hoyland? It could be well if he scores two in the final so that'd make him the top scorer in the competition Andy I could see your brain then yeah my brain is working out Marcus Rashford I think was the joint top scorer in 23 when United didn't didn't get through to and Boniface as well I remember that Victor Boniface thanks for that yeah sorry that I don't know why my brain is whirling around with stuff like this er

Any more on Victor Boniface? I thought the ball was struggling to stick with Hoyland in the first half. Look at all your nodding there. Well, the same as everyone else. Yeah. Ugarte, I thought he played really well at Brentford and didn't play really well tonight. We've done an interview with him in United Weekstand. I was just like, oh, Jesus. You know, like you hope that you get a good... You're basically saying someone's good and then you print it and then...

gives the ball to an opponent every time he gets it tonight. I'm a bit concerned about his ability on the ball. I know we have spoken about this and I feel like he could be a player as United move forward who's only used in certain circumstances in certain games to be honest and I'm not sure whether tonight was the right game when United needed to keep the ball as much as they did.

Let's have a look at some more of your emails then. Oh, hang on. Let's read that out first. 72 teams entered the Europa League and the Champions League group phases. One is still unbeaten. It's more impressive than that. There's 100 teams entered. Are you doing the qualifiers as well? No, no, no. The Conference League, so the three top European competitions, there's 100 teams have entered the group stages and Manchester United are the only unbeaten team. Chelsea were, but they got beat against Legia.

And do you know what I love about this as well? United, when they have won European competitions in the past, 99 didn't get beat, scored in every game. 2008, didn't get beat.

I think they scored in every game. Anyway, 2008 they didn't. They drew 0-0 at Barca. There we go. That's a good point. I'm sure we did a podcast about that. Yeah, good point. They didn't get beat though. I like it when United get to European finals, win European finals and they haven't been beaten in the competition. It just feels like a proper campaign then. So obviously getting there, scoring every game. I mean, they've blitzed the goals in this knockout phase, haven't they?

So, yeah, I mean, hopefully, are we allowed to sort of touch on the final a bit in terms of who... We'll get there, yeah. We'll get there. That's what it's given me confidence about. We're just talking about the Red Invincibles a little bit longer. Yeah. Speaking of the final, KSR, whatever we'll be, we'll be. We're going to Basque Country. Yeah. KSR. I prefer that to follow, follow Bilbao chant. And that's from Sian, who's a Malawian Red. Yeah. So we're even reaching Malawi now, which is quite impressive. Yeah.

Paul, you'll like this, Laurie. The manifestation, it's a word that we've heard occasionally on the podcast...

from this pod is outrageous. First, we have the greatest European home legs pod, which leads to possibly the greatest of all home European legs. Secondly, the away legs pod. This was meant to be a tough game, but turned out to be one of the most comfortable 3-0 wins that nobody expected in Bilbao. But during these pods, and the regular pods too, there has been a little sprinkle of love for that man again, Andy Mitten. Mason Mount.

Do you remember the podcast we did after the Community Shield? No. We were in Hotel Football and you asked us, you even got your phone out and asked us on camera, are United going to win any silverware?

And two of us said Europa. Really? Which two? Please say me. I can't remember what Lenny Oro said seven minutes ago, so I can't remember what I said at the start of the season. You interviewed Lenny Oro? Did I? What did I say? Europa League, get in there. By the way, they've not won it yet. No, I know they've not, but we're in a better position now than we were in August. In terms of manifestation, listener, if you can scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll in the pre-season predictions, post-Community Shield...

Someone on that podcast is saying we're winning the Europa League and you may as well book your hotels right now. Right. Well, in terms of that, Drew says get working on Talk of the Devil's extra...

on European finals and well Drew fear not because we have already begun our work on a podcast that will be coming your way ahead of the final in Bilbao we have had a few messages actually already about European finals when we asked about away trips but we want more so get in your messages about watching Manchester United in European finals weird and wonderful stories about

Trips that you made, memorable moments, the lot, get in touch and we'll record that ahead of Manchester United taking on Spurs in the final on the 21st, is it? Yeah. 21st of May. I spoke, there's an interview I did with Xavi Hernandez in The Athletic today and unfortunately he talks about the final, the two finals in Rome and at Wembley and he just pissed right all over our chips. He's like, we're just miles too good for you.

And I'm like, no, United played well the first nine minutes in Rome. No, no, 20 minutes? You punished us. You made us suffer. Is that what you're giving us? 20 minutes? Loads of people come up to me outside the ground today, give us feedback on this podcast. Although one fella came up and said, I'm not really interested with you lot saying that you've got to go and you're going to get thrown out of the stadium. So, all right. So we're not allowed to mention it from now on then. We've just got to start humming and sending each other secret signals that we've been binned. There was a lot of...

Sorry, my water was just being taken. Oh, don't take his sweets. Blimey. Very dangerous if you take his sweets, trust me. There's a lady just clearing up in the press box. She nearly took Andy Mitten's sweets. I've never seen his eyes become wider, ever. Let's talk about the final then, Laurie. You wanted to do it earlier. Manchester United versus Tottenham.

Only two managers in Manchester United's history have reached a European final in their first season in charge. Jose Mourinho and now Ruben Amorim. Wow, there we go. Obviously we know which way that went in 2017.

it's got a huge narrative this hasn't it because you've got two teams that have obviously had disastrous Premier League seasons two managers that have been under pressure at different moments obviously Ange Postacoglu people are saying that he might still lose his job even if they win it you're getting Eric Ten Hag vibes there he said I always win a trophy in my second season Mate

manifestation so yeah I think it's going to be chaos isn't it in Bilbao you've got two English teams they will travel in their numbers Tottenham have never won a trophy okay they won the League Cup a few years ago and maybe some league titles in the 50s but they haven't done anything recently you can't just not count them winning trophies in the past you know I'm just saying but they'll be up for this so anyway it's going to be an epic occasion I think and my question to you guys would be

Who starts that? And to the point that Carl was mentioning earlier, with the 90 minutes in mind and potentially extra time, how do you sort of judge it? I mean, surely you want to start obviously with your pretty much strongest team, but you kind of need to have something in reserve as well, don't you?

Amarin's got an answer to this and you'll find out at one o'clock on Friday. What do you think? Maybe you could include some things that you might have heard but can't say that Ruben Amarin said. What I think is Alejandro Garnaccio is probably going to be better coming off the bench against tired legs in the last 20 minutes and or extra time. And if Mason Mount can play 60 minutes, they should be as a starter.

because he can be a very good initial point for a press. And we know how the Spurs team likes to play. They've made adjustments in the Europa League compared to how they play in the Premier League. But if you're going to get at Spurs and you're going to see if they're going to be Spurs-y in a final, you might want to snap into a couple of tackles early. And Mount, as one of the 10s, is a good option for that. I think Ahmad at right wing-back is a good option for that. I'm also... Do you think you'd do that in the final, play Ahmad at right wing-back? Yes, I think you want to get attacking options...

I think Ahmad as a sneaky late arrival in a box, Ahmad's good enough to get his game off anywhere. But if you can get a right-hand side of Mount and Ahmad behind him, you know. I'd worry a bit about Ahmad defensively, to be honest, at wing-back in a final. I think what Carl said about Tottenham in Europe is really interesting. I've watched Tottenham a lot in Europe this season. Don't ask me why, but I have done. Man's got to do stuff, hasn't he? Man's got to do stuff. Don't they play at the same time?

But they play at the same time as Manchester United though in Europe this season. I've not physically been in the stadium like I've been at Old Trafford. So you've re-watched Spurs' games? Yeah, in great detail with people who know far more than I do. Oh, for work? Yeah, for work. I just thought it was a pleasure. No, no, I've not chosen to watch Tottenham Hotspur. I couldn't really care about Tottenham Hotspur. I've been to see City a lot lately. Well, City was for work as well. Look at him having a bit of a dig here.

Tottenham for work so I can tell you in pretty deep detail of how they play and how they played with great intelligence against Bodo Glimp for example

Man marking their playmaker who destroyed Roma in the previous round. There's goals against Tottenham. I think anyone can see that from the way they play. They're overlapping and wingers cutting inside. They can be really effective when they're going forward. We've seen it three times already.

against Manchester United but I think there's opportunities there and I don't know I've got a sneaky feeling that Manchester United are due a win. Evie you're pointing at me do you think that's true? Do you know the last time United beat Spurs? Yeah Solskjaer October 21 22

Okay. At home we're away. 3-0. 2-0 at home. Eric Ten Haag. Bruno Fernandes and Fred scored. Cristiano Ronaldo. Unused substitute. Night game. It was a night game, wasn't it? It was a brilliant game. Absolutely bullied Spurs. The whole plan from Ten Haag was to get the ball just on the outside of the box and take those longer shots to unnerve Tottenham.

And everyone was writing a really good piece about how Ten Hag's really turned things around. And then Ronaldo walked down the tunnel and I could see Dan Sheldon was on the United beat at the time. And I could see Dan's head go, oh no, no, I've got to write about Ronaldo. Yeah, he made it about him that night, certainly. But that's crazy, isn't it? October 2022, the last time United beat Spurs. Obviously, three games this season, three defeats against them. Can we just take a moment?

15th versus 16th in the Premier League currently in a European final neither side has reached the 40 point mark in the Premier League and there's only three games left Manchester United if we win this we'll go to the Super Cup final against the European champions in Italy in August which is completely surreal I know the Super Cup's not like the Champions League but

I don't think it's a very good Manchester United team at the moment but it's certainly one capable of beating Tottenham It's just funny isn't it that it all stems back to that day at Wembley against Man City in the FA Cup final sort of sneaking into Europe through the back door there if they managed to sneak into the Champions League through an even bigger back door It's the most indirect route to the Champions League ever taken basically isn't it? Eighth and wherever they finish this season in the Champions League Question, final Do you start Luke Shaw?

I think he needs more minutes.

I think he needs to play more. Wing-back Luke Shaw, I did not think that Amarim would do that, and he did it. I think it was needs must in that situation, wasn't it? But I think if he starts him, it's one of the three centre-backs. He went back there pretty quick, didn't he? Victor Lindelof, I just thought, he's had two games, hasn't he, now, where he's just looked nervous, he's been giving the ball away. I think if you're going to make a sub there, I think Shaw for Lindelof is the one. De Ligt could be back as well. He's only been ruled out of the next two at the moment, but then he'll need minutes and all that sort of stuff, and I'm not going to bore everyone with details about how players are recuperated.

Mark on Spotify, a lot of people have asked this, Carl, in the last few weeks. Big issue for me that's not been discussed enough is if Spurs make it, and so do we, which obviously we know that both teams have now, it's no longer a Europa League game. It's a Premier League game. Spurs will be bigger and faster than anything we've come across on the way to the final. And our form is the worst in over 30 years against top-flight English teams. Is that something that worries you? Yeah, does Manchester United's

advantage against Europa League opposition completely disappear when you're up against Tottenham Hotspur which at least in three previous matches seems to have more physical edge over Manchester United kind of it doesn't become a Premier League game it becomes a European final

Well, it is definitely a European final, but will it be played like one or will it be played like a Premier League game? It's not going to be played like a Premier League game. It's going to be played like a final. And as a certain incredibly decorated Brazilian midfielder in Manchester United said, finals aren't to be played, they're to be won.

Right? And if you think... Yes, Carlos. If you think Amarin's going to be going up there and going, no, I'm just going to treat this like a Premier League game, like I've done all season. Absolutely not. If you think Ange-Poste-Gogli is going to try it in this moment, absolutely not. You're going to see 20 minutes of some disgusting football as those two teams try and figure it out. Because, yeah, it's not about playing wonderful football. It's about beating each other up. Jose Mourinho won the Europa League final over Ajax. How did he do it? He looked at the Ajax team and went, oh, they're kind of short.

I wonder if he'd just whack it along to Mourinho and Fellaini. Mourinho doing that is one of the smartest tactical moves of any Manchester United manager. And it was an outside bet. He needed to get into the Champions League and he was very calculated how he did it. But just winding back then to how Manchester United could get into the Champions League, it's like...

If Coventry City's goal would have stood, you know what I mean? It's mad. Miles offside. I don't know anyone who thought it was onside and headed for an escalator. I don't know anyone that did that.

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I spoke to Eric Ten Hag last night. Oh, how is he in himself? I didn't speak to him in that depth, but he'd seen what Xavi Hernandez had said about his Manchester United team against Barcelona. And he was just saying that when we had all the players right, we could be really strong. And the Barcelona game, because Xavi had picked out Anthony and Fred and Marcus Rashford, three players who are no longer here. So I suppose just reflective of

That was probably his high point, wasn't it? As Manchester United's manager. But, Manchester United win... Winning the FA Cup? Yeah, yeah. Against Manchester City? No, you're right. That period then, when he was good. But if Manchester United win the Champions League next year, he started it all going, hadn't he? With that...

Squeezing through against Coventry. In related Anthony news, the Europa Conference League final is going to be Anthony versus Jadon Sancho because Real Betis and Chelsea have both made it through to the final. Anthony scored again tonight away at Fiorentina. They ended up drawing 2-2 after extra time which was enough to take them through.

Yeah, Manchester United interest in that game, sort of. Sort of. Look, it's a shock window. I said this in the Q&A we did in the Athletic earlier today. I'm lowering my voice and crouching really close in. Prepare yourself for the possibility that one of these United loanees might come back and be like a new signing next summer. Who? Just prepare yourself for that eventuality. Who? Just prepare. One of them might come back. Just prepare.

I don't think either of them will play for United again. Don't you? Anthony's been absolutely brilliant. Good. Brilliant. He's the same player. I'm not... It's good that he's been good. Hopefully someone's interested. It's good that he's been good. I've seen him score with his right foot. I've seen him score three kicks. I've seen him score... I've seen him cutting on his left foot from out wide and it's... It's not worked out yet, has it? I looked at that one. Great goal. How have you not... How have you not figured out that's his move? I know.

But look, if he's having a good time and if Real Betis, I think, what was the term used by Joaquin? They want to kidnap him? Yeah. They want to kidnap him. Well, there's the crowdfunding thing as well. How's that going? Can we contribute? You've got a downer on him, haven't you? Look, he wasn't working out with him here, but there are a couple of things, mitigation. His personal circumstances were extremely difficult when he was here.

and that situation has now eased. You can see he's confident, he's doing well there, he's feeling the love. He's clearly a very, very good player.

he just wasn't showing it here yet. But this is a very difficult club to show at, and that's why I'm guarded when people say, bring X or Y in. This club has been so complicated in recent years. That's fair. Whoever comes in, it's really difficult. He's brilliant. He's doing really, really well. He's brilliant for Betis, and long may it continue for the next three or four games, and let's hope there's a big auction soon.

for him in the summer and if Manchester United decide to bring him back let's hope he's brilliant for Manchester United again anyway we need to talk about a game of football that's happening here on Sunday don't we Manchester United against West Ham Premier League points precious in the battle to avoid 17th spot United's Premier League form right last six no wins two draws four defeats the last time United went six Premier League games without a win Louis van Gaal

was telling us all to go and enjoy the wine and the mince pies in December 2015. The Christmas of discontent. That's when he lost his job. That month is when he lost... He didn't. He didn't, but you actually saw Mourinho scarves on sale outside Old Trafford six months before Louis van Gaal lost his job. You know, I would say you lose the moderates. He lost them that December.

He lost a lot of games. He lost a lot of games, but not as many as Ruben Amarin lost this December. No. From what I could tell, I think the last time United went seven league games without a win was a run between January and March 1991. So it's a very long time ago. But will anyone be bothered if they don't win here at the weekend? I will. I'll be here. I'll be annoyed. I won't.

My current working title for my match piece will be It's OK If You're Annoyed At This.

Do they need to try and pick it up a little bit in the Premier League so they can build towards the Europa League final? Because to me, the start of this game said that there's still a bit of a brittle confidence to this side. Yeah, they still feel their way through games and you want United to start well, to start strongly. You want Hoyland to get as many goals as possible right now. West Ham have not had a great season. I can't quite make heads or tails of what

Graham Pott is trying to do it. Winless in eight. Yep. Um,

they just made to Debo that loan's going to be permanent because it's been activated which is another interesting one because I'm pretty sure Sir Jim would have liked him to play for Manchester United this year but that'll be interesting if you want some of these players to play well get a couple of touches in score some goals West Ham are as close to a in air quotes here and I'm meaning this only with the mildest disrespect a beatable opportunity

Opposition Compared to Chelsea and Aston Villa That will come After that So yeah Hoyland Four shots please Stop mucking around Will he play? He's got to

You've got to get the enthusiasm, the consistency and rep somehow. I think this is also the time to build some more relationships between two or three players. I know we've spoken before about Garnaccio and Dorgo. See if we can fine-tune that a little bit. I was late, so have we sung Lenny Oro's praises yet? Yes. Thank goodness for that. Yes, yeah, he was great, wasn't he? The thing is, though, with some of the players that you mentioned, I don't know whether he'll risk them. No, I get the sense that the injuries that he's sustained this season have sort of...

bruised and scarred him to the point of him just wanting to absolutely guard against that and so for all that Carl's saying there about players getting into form and finding connections is absolutely right but I feel like overriding that will be his thought that I need a full squad available for this Europa League final. He often says Masraoui is dead or half dead so I'm not sure if he's going to start or play too many minutes on West Ham because there's just something about the way he keeps describing Masraoui is dead this is what

I think he's played 50 plus matches for Man United 56 I think it was tonight and it's more than he's played in his career in any season I think it's like 35 his most in his previous seasons way more than that so he's in the uncharted territory for his body and I think he might be one who won't necessarily play more than 45 minutes if possible you mentioned there earlier that last time United had gone 7 matches without a win was in the league 1991 didn't they win a European Cup at the end of that season?

Someone did a documentary about that recently. Absolutely did. There are parallels, you know, in terms of turning points and that win in Rotterdam, which 18 months earlier, Manchester United had been really bad in the league. Not as bad as now, but 13th, you know. And then to win that gave the players confidence. I remember interviewing Fergie that summer.

And he was like, we can move up a level now. And it's common sense to say that. But you could just see if you can beat a top team in a European final, it can be a turn of... There's been final wins throughout the history of this club. 63 final against Leicester City. First trophy in the post-Munich era. They just sort of elevate you, they push you on.

confidence is a huge thing in football and I just thought it was lacking tonight for so much of the game for that first hour they found it in the end though they found it in the end and we finished this pod on a high please do no it was a good night and there were brilliant goals and we picked out loads of positives

But we know that before you start spiralling again, I'm going to cut this off. That's the end of Talk of the Devils before Andy Mitten can finish his sentence. Thank you so much for your company. Carl, Laurie, Andy, thank you for doing it with us here inside an empty Old Trafford. And we have a European final to look forward to in Bilbao in less than two weeks' time. Thanks for listening. We'll see you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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