From the Archives: The Broken Places
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Hello, it's Nora. It is summertime and the team at Feelings & Co. is not taking a vacation. We are working on the next few months of episodes and planning out the next 12 months of work for our team. So while we're out there finding and producing new stories for you, we are also going to be sharing a few of our older favorites, including this episode. We'll be back with brand new episodes the

the first week of August, first Tuesday of August, and we are still putting out bonus episodes on our premium feed. You can get the full archive of Terrible Thanks for Asking and bonus episodes anytime at ttfa.org slash premium. A quick warning that this episode contains references to death and suicide, plus some strong language.

Let's go from oldest to youngest. Oh, of course you would say that. You would say that, wouldn't you? So this is Liza, and I am the oldest of the three siblings. I'm Alex, and I, oh no, we're doing youngest to oldest. It's okay. It's okay. Keep going. You're doing great. I'm the baby. And then... My name is Dave. I'm the middle brother.

The only brother. And you know what? You got skipped over, which I'm a middle child, so I'm sensitive to that. I'm Nora McInerney, and this is Terrible. Thanks for asking.

This, all this banter you just heard, that's what it sounds like when a group of siblings get together. Or when a group of siblings who like each other get together, at least. If I weren't in the studio with my headphones on, with my producer Hans here, I would be able to confuse this with my own siblings. There's the talking over one another. It's all the laughing, the finishing of each other's sentences, more laughing, more talking over one another. It's all the laughing, the finishing of each other's sentences, more laughing, more talking over one another.

But these are not my siblings. This is David, Liza, and Alex Achille. Yeah, 100%. Do you ever get into, like, dead dad contests with people where you're like, people are like, oh, how'd your dad die? And you're like, I want you to go first because, um... Mine's better. I'm about to drop a bomb. Yeah.

Or the best is when someone's talking about their parents and you say, really? Well, mine are dead. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Thanks for rubbing it in. Both of mine are dead. Yeah. Oh, God. Are your parents sending you too many text messages? Is that annoying to you? Sorry. Oh, you have to call her back? Really? That's unfortunate. Well, thanks a lot. I never get to call my mom. Yeah. Liza and David and Alex are all crammed together into a little studio to talk with me.

Because Alex, who's the baby of the family by almost nine years, emailed us with their story. The story is that bomb that David talked about dropping. It's a big one. It's a doozy. It includes a dad who was killed by a hitman in a dispute over a girlfriend and a mother who died in a fiery car wreck four years after that.

So you'd understand if we made this an episode about two extremely tragic and headline-worthy parental deaths because WTF? Your dad is murdered and then your mom drives her car off a cliff and dies in an inferno? Like even as a plotline in a soap opera, even as a TTF episode, that's a little much. But it turns out this story isn't so much about their traumatic orphaning. It's just about them.

The kids, the siblings, David, Liza, and Alex Achille. I was curling my sister's hair this morning in the bathroom, and my brother was in the shower. And Liza was like, hold on, hold on, hold on. She ran, got a big old bucket of cold water and poured it on my brother. And like, that's what we used to do all the time. It was like all bringing back all the memories. Alex, Liza, and David grew up in Los Gatos, California. It was a blended family led by their mom, Michelle.

Michelle had had a traumatic childhood, and her goal in life was to raise a family that was the opposite of what she had growing up. Michelle just wanted to give her kids the best childhood they could possibly have. And she succeeded. Michelle was the best mom. Not like me, not like your mom, who just got the number one mom mug because your teacher made you make one. I mean, like, even I have one.

Michelle, though, Michelle was the number one mom.

She would make us macaroni and cheese, Kraft, and hot dogs. But damn it if it wasn't the perfect consistency and warmth and just the best cook. But she also was a really good cook. She could make a meal out of nothing. Slop. That was the last meal that she made me before she died. I was frozen in my freezer when she died. What is slop?

It's green beans, rice, and ground beef with like... Teriyaki. Teriyaki soy sauce. We had nothing in the fridge one night and she's like, I'm going to make you guys the best dinner ever. This is an old family recipe. We call it slop. Really, she was completely winging it. It's a traditional family meal now. Michelle was also the best listener and...

The best looking, which kind of feels like a gross thing to say and our looks important to how good of a mom you are. Of course not. But when you happen to look like Christie Brinkley, it's just a thing that people bring up, which means a lot of uncomfortable conversations about your mom.

Which killed me because all my friends were like, your mom is so hot. Totally. Growing up was like, oh my God, your mom. Oh my God, your mom's like wine, the older the finer, huh? Which that was like so annoying. It's like hell.

But even though Michelle was the best, the kids knew that their mother hadn't always been the happy mom that they knew her as. She struggled with mental illness her whole life and through, like, her own childhood traumas. Michelle was open with her children about her struggles, including her first suicide attempt at age 10. She had a scar on her wrist from the early one, and she was totally like, I tried to kill myself. Yeah. She never...

She never hid it from us because she was almost teaching us, like, people can get to this point in life. And then she would follow it up with, like, but I love you guys so much that I would never do that to you again. Right. Michelle was always a great mom, even if she didn't have the greatest taste in guys. But when Liza was nine and David was seven, Michelle married a guy who was just as great as her.

His name was Mark Achille. And so he was, I guess you would call him our stepdad, but we always considered him our dad. Like we referred to him as dad. Mark was considered the unofficial mayor of Los Gatos. He was the kind of cool, friendly, handsome guy who knew everyone everywhere he went. It probably helped that he was also a bartender. Mark and Michelle had Alex, the baby of the family, and the Achilles were a happy family of five.

Mark and Michelle were great parents and great friends to each other. But when Alex was nine, they realized that they weren't great at being married to each other and separated. This is where you may expect things to go off the rails, but no. Mark and Michelle were really great at being separated, too. They were friendly. They still had family dinners. Mark and Michelle were co-parenting when it wasn't called co-parenting.

Liza and David were off on their own, but Mark's flexible schedule meant that he and Alex had lots of time together. Here's Alex. He picked me up from school every morning. We would go to the donut shop. He'd get coffee. I'd get a donut. He'd take me to school. He'd pick me up from school. He'd take me to all my sporting events. He was like

He was my person. We would just, it was just me and him at his house because my brother and sister were grown and off and living on their own. So when I was at my dad's, it was just me and him and he was my bud. Eventually, Mark started dating someone younger. He bought a restaurant and then another, and he found success that he hadn't had while he was with Michelle. And even though he still came by the house for dinner,

It was hard for Michelle not to feel like he'd traded her in for a newer model, one who was just a few years older than her oldest daughter. Like, my parents never bought a house when they were together. They didn't have a nice car. And so then it was like, all of a sudden, my dad leaves and then buys this bar and gets this and was, like, very successful. And then she's like, well, what the hell? Like, where was this when we were married? Or, you know, so... But she would never do anything that would, like...

Make it uncomfortable for the other players involved. Like some ex-wives or whatever would text the new girl and be like, hope you like what you got, you know, blah, blah, blah. Like that was not her style at all. She was very like classy, even in anger. Michelle had spent her adult life focused on her family. Now the husband and the life she'd planned for were gone and the kids she had poured all her time and energy into were growing up.

Alex went to college. Liza and David were full-on grownups. And they all knew that their mom was lonely and struggling in this new season of life. Her dating life was not healthy, and she had a series of awful boyfriends. But Mark was doing great. He got an offer to buy his restaurants for cash, and he took it. He had a much younger woman on his arm, and he had a great relationship with all three of his kids.

For Mark, everything was going great, which is why we're going to take a break here. ♪♪♪

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Liza, David, and Alex are just living their regular lives. Their mom is, you know, going through a rough patch. Their dad's doing well, but overall things are just fine and good. And here's the thing about having your life fall apart. It never happens when you're ready for it.

Doesn't happen when you are fully braced, in a defensive stance, real stable, ready to take the blow. Instead, it waits until you least expect it. It waits until you're snug in your little dorm room.

My best friend was my roommate, Tricia, and we had gone out on Thursday night, so we were having like a very... Thirsty Thursday, as it's known. Exactly, yeah. And so Friday we were just lazy couch potatoes in our bed. Studying a bunch. Yeah, totally studying all day. It waits until you're running some mindless errand...

So I was shopping at Nordstrom and I had my son who was about six months old at the time. It waits until you're at work. So I was at work at the time. I worked on an ambulance. When you're busy doing something completely unremarkable, that is when your life decides to explode like a motor vehicle in a Michael Bay movie.

For the Achille kids, that mundane and unremarkable time was 11.30 a.m. on March 14, 2008. While Alex nursed her hangover and Liza browsed at Nordstrom and David drove around in an ambulance, their dad, Mark Achille, walked out of his townhouse in Los Gatos and was shot eight times in his own driveway.

So I was standing on the third floor of Nordstrom by the brass plumb department right by customer service. And I was about to go down the escalator and I heard my cell phone ring. So I stopped and answered it. And my son was in his stroller. And on the other end was my mom. And she was almost like,

I couldn't understand what she was saying. And all I heard her say was, Mark's dead, Mark's dead, Mark's dead, Mark's dead, Mark's dead. And in that moment, and I can like remember that feeling of thinking there's no way that my Mark is dead. So I know she's not talking about him. And so I said, what? I mean, I was like, I'll call you back.

I got a call from our aunt, Norma. I'm like, hey, Norm, what's up? She's like, hey, David, like, I heard some disturbing news. I'm like, okay, what is it? She's like, I heard I'm getting my hair done and someone in the salon here in Los Gatos said your dad was shot? And I was like, excuse me? She's like, yeah, do you know anything? Have you heard anything? And I was like, let me call you back. It was scary.

I was in, I, like, I went into shock mode because I was trying to figure out, like, wait, shot? Who? How? What? I couldn't, I just couldn't understand it. And then there's my six-month-old baby staring up at me. So I immediately, like, snapped back into reality. Hey, okay, I have to, I'm a mom. I'm a parent. I'm...

My baby needs me. So I walked over to customer service and I had worked at Nordstrom for a long time. So I knew I picked up my baby out of the shoulder. And I remember like barely even being able to hold him because I was shaking so bad. And then I called my brother and I was like, I'm here at Nordstrom. I don't know what to do. So I looked at my partner and he's like, what is happening? And I'm like, hey, dude.

drive me to Nordstrom Valley Fair right now. Like, I was in plan mode. Like, we need to get everybody here together and then we'll go from there. That was like my goal. Please tell me you turned on the lights and the siren for the ambulance. No, I didn't. Because you guys were raised so well. Yeah, public safety came first. So Alex, at this point, where are you? I'm in Santa Barbara.

in my dorm tricia gets a text message from one of our girlfriends in las gatos and said that said hey is alex okay and tricia's like what and so she asks me she's like have you talked to your dad today and i'm like what no why she's like why don't you just call him i'm like okay so i call call call like i think i called him like three or four times doesn't answer and then i called sue farwell which is my dad's business partner who he owned the businesses with um

And she just answered the phone and it was, she just said, Alex, I'm so sorry. I think I just like fell to the floor, started screaming. I like hung up the phone. And then I remember just being like, I need to go home. I need to go home right now. The Achille kids all head home, back to their mom. Michelle is just as shocked as they are. And none of it makes sense. Why would their dad have been murdered in his driveway on a Friday morning in the town he loved?

They don't have answers, but they have each other. And once again, Michelle's kids need her. And then Mark died, and I think it broke her. Like, broke her bad. Like, it was like, just summoned up everything that had ever been bad in her life. And so I remember, like, she struggled her whole life with, like, drug and alcohol abuse and was really, really good for a long time. But I started seeing, like...

inklings of that starting to enter her life again. And then you would call her out on it and she would guilt you into like why you should feel bad for her and all these things. Like now she was a victim like to the max and it was her excuse to like play the victim part and that sucked. This is what it looks like when Michelle starts to break. Just a few days after Mark's death, Michelle decided she wanted a drink.

Which turned into many drinks. Which turned into Michelle getting very, very drunk. A family friend called Dave, who met his mother in the parking lot of a strip mall.

I was like pissed because I'm like, hold on a second. Don't start drinking now. Like don't you're keeping this whole thing together. Like what are you doing? And we got into it, which was my mistake. Like I regret it so bad, but I totally engaged and like we screamed at each other and she snapped, literally got out of the car.

crawled underneath the car, was saying the demons are going to get me. And I was like, now I went from mad to freaked out. And I was like, trying to get her out from under the car. And she's like, she wouldn't come out. Dave called his sister Liza, and the two of them decided together to call an ambulance and have their mother taken to the psych ward at the county hospital. And like, we get a call and I put it on speakerphone and it was my mom. And she was like,

I never want to, this is from the psych ward. She's like, I never want to see you again. You're not my son. How could you do this to me? You disloyal little shit. Like, and like basically confirmed every hell that I was feeling. And I just look at my wife, Kate or my fiance at the time. Now my beautiful, sexy wife. And I looked at her and I was just like, I just want to disappear. Like, and thank God the next morning, like,

When we picked her up, my mom apologized and said she didn't mean any of that stuff. But you could tell she was still like, you should have done that. But don't worry about it. We're good. It was kind of a point of contention forever between us. But I know now I was just making a choice in the moment. I mean, I would challenge anybody to be there and have to do what I had to do at the same time. So I don't feel so bad anymore. But it was hell. It was hell.

Michelle pulls it together for her kids. Those kids she needed and missed, they need her again. And she rallies for them. I feel like we had a lot of sessions there where we, like, I was able to fully explain, like, what I was upset about and what I was angry and what I was worried about and what I was sad about. And my mom was really good at, like,

She wanted to take care of everything to a fault so that we could go through it, and we did. So I feel like the grieving process was healthy. Not over, but healthy. But there was always this looming weight of trial. A few weeks after their dad's murder, the story started to come together. The police arrested a man named Paul Garcia.

Paul was actually the one who had bought their dad's bar and restaurant. And Paul was also involved with and in love with the bartender at the bar, who was Mark's girlfriend. And according to police, Paul was the one who paid three other men to kill Mark. So that's a lot for Liza, Dave, and Alex to take in. Your dad is dead.

That's a lot. Now, your dad is dead and was murdered because he's one of three points in a love triangle. Your dad is dead and murdered because he was in a love triangle, and now it's headline news in your hometown. More arrests are made, and eventually, there are four men charged in their dad's murder.

So now we're like kind of trying to finish up grieving. And I felt like we were being forced to keep this wound like open with salt and lemon poured in and keep stabbing it. And like, like we, whether we wanted to and try it as hard as we possibly could, we had no choice but to keep rehashing and living this like hell for years, years, which is like cruel. It's really cruel to do to somebody.

When Dave says years, he means years. It took two years after their dad's murder for a very public trial to begin. The prosecution paints Paul Garcia as a jilted lover out for revenge against Mark Achille. The defense suggests Mark was murdered for a drug debt. It's literally headline news and then some. The local paper set up a live blog and a Twitter account

dedicated just to providing updates throughout the trial. And everyone, everyone in town came out to spectate. It was so weird. We had to fight for seats at our dad's trial from like strangers. Like one time this guy was like, this is my seat and I'm sitting here. I'm like, who are you?

And he's like, I'm just a guest. I'm sitting here. I'm like, get the fuck out of that seat. I'm sitting like I had to fight for the right to be in there. Which you're the joker and you lighten the mood like when it gets serious. So for you to have to get to that point is like so unlike you. Which annoyed me so bad, too. I'm like, I wanted everyone just to go home. Yeah, seriously. Leave us all alone. Yeah, like it's news for you, but it's life for us. My life. Yeah. Yeah.

It's been seven years since I had my last baby. Seven years, which doesn't feel possible because it feels like I just had him. It goes really fast, except when you're in it, every decision you make feels like a huge one because it is. This is a whole human being and you're responsible for keeping them safe and loved and growing and thriving. By heart gets it.

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Hi, it's Nora with a little bit of an update. Terrible Thanks for Asking is on an indefinite hiatus, which means that for the foreseeable future, you won't see new episodes in the main feed. But if you want to support the work that we've done, get access to our entire back catalog with no ads, you

You can join us on Patreon at patreon.com slash ttfa or on Apple+. We are still making two episodes a month for subscribers, which is a sustainable workload for us emotionally and financially.

There are still plenty of episodes here for free on the main feed, so no pressure. But if you want to join a community of terribles, come over to Patreon. And if you just want more terrible, join on Apple+. The world breaks everyone. And after, many are stronger in the broken places. I wrote that.

I'm just kidding, it's Hemingway. And it's true. Many are stronger in the broken places. And many are not. Many are just broken. Many just limp along as best they can for as long as they can until the duct tape starts to peel and the truth of their hurt is too obvious to ignore any longer. Mark's trial had given Michelle renewed purpose in life.

The trial was a place to go, a thing to focus on in her grief. She was at the trial every single day with one purpose, to support justice for her murdered sort of ex-husband. Looking through all of the headlines around the murder, I thought, wow, she looks amazing. I'm a shallow person, but also she really did look so beautiful and beautiful.

If I were ever murdered, I would hope that my current husband would also look good and also show up every day and wrestle some justice out of the system. The Achille kids were there at the trial sometimes, but they couldn't be there every day like their mom was. And while Michelle looked strong and capable and very beautiful, Mark's murder and this trial took a huge toll. All those things.

like demons and shit that she had to go through, she just bottled it up, put it away for later. Well, now it's later, right? On May 10th, 2010, the jury found all four defendants guilty of first-degree murder. Michelle got justice for Mark, but nobody really won. The bullets didn't just hit Mark, Michelle said during the sentencing. We all have pieces of them in us.

After the sentencing, only one of the four defendants chose to speak. 22-year-old Daniel Chavez, the man who had pulled the trigger. Here's Alex. He was up there for probably like 10 minutes, and he had such a bad stuttering problem that he probably only got out, I'm sorry, like I'm so sorry. And the judge kept asking him, like, Mr. Chavez, are you done? Are you done? And he kept saying, no, I'm not done. And it just...

I just felt so bad for him because he ruined his life. He made such a stupid decision and he had a daughter that his daughter was going to have to grow up for part of her life without a dad. And it just made me feel terrible that one little stupid decision ruined so many people's lives. The cruelest thing about the world is that it just keeps moving, no matter how stuck you feel.

The world had kept turning without Mark. It kept turning after the trial. And Michelle had been having a hard time keeping up. After the trial was over, Michelle's trouble amplified. One night, the kids get a call that she has attempted suicide. She had taken a whole bottle of Xanax, drank a bottle of wine, and locked herself in her car before her landlord found her. That was like the beginning of the... You could see now there was a battle. Like...

She had her good months and her bad months, but there was definite, like, now all the blinds were pulled back. For a while, Michelle left California to live in Milwaukee with Liza, her oldest. There came a point when she was staying with me where I was like, these are the rules of my house. This is how it has to be for the safety of everybody and the, like, well-being of everybody. And she was like, then I'm not staying here. So...

You know, when you like one of the things that I struggle with a lot and that I like trying to get better at not doing with is like you think about all the things that you say, like, did I yell at her too much? Did I not yell at her enough? Was I too nice to her? Was I not nice enough? Should I have forced her to go somewhere? Should I have, you know, the all the should have could have would have's?

And I think about, you know, there was this like one defining moment of like, again, having an argument with her and her saying like, I am sick. Like, you don't understand. I am sick. It's not like I'm choosing to live like this. You think I want to live this way, but I don't. And I thought that.

that she just, it was as easy as making a choice. Like you either choose to stay in your sickness or you choose to get better. And I felt like she wasn't choosing to get better. I feel guilty about thinking like she had a choice. - Well, you said yes to living with her and she asked us and we said no. - So I'm better than you? - So you're better than me. - I win the best child award? - Yeah. - Okay. - I think there were many conversations between all three of us kids

that after we all talked about it and made a blatant effort to be like, okay, if she really doesn't want to live, like we got to make sure that if she dies, we can always look back so that we can live our lives knowing that we did everything we could. And I think we did.

I feel that way too. I really think we did. Like supported her through like even as the little things of like going with her to appointments to counseling and like getting her a pill box so that she could keep her, you know, her pills organized and cleaning her house and bringing her food and groceries and everything.

At the very end, she was totally like, I thought like, I think we're coming out of this. Mom was like sober and like I was even letting her watch our daughter now. And like I really felt like right at the time she died, I was like, I think we're on the uphill now or whatever, the downhill, whatever. Like we're in the good part, however you say it.

Now, even if it's happened before, and even if you know it could happen again, you're still never ready for your life to fall apart. Because, you know, it waits. It waits until you're home from a day on the lake with your friends. I, like, laid down in bed, and I was, like, kind of, like, resting, napping, whatever. It waits until you're out picking up some stuff you need. I...

was coming home from Target. It waits until another regular day at work. How about this? Now I'm a firefighter. That is when your life decides to fall apart again. And I hear a call go out for a wildfire started by a car fire. And I was like, whew, we got a ripper here. What Dave didn't know was that his mother's car had gone off the road at around 12.20 a.m. outside of Saratoga, California.

So we have a rig that goes to those kind of calls. And earlier I had talked to my mom about watching my daughter Clara on Tuesday. And we had to cut the call short because we got a call. I tried to call later. She didn't pick up her phone. This fire happens. The next morning I wake up and the guys at work are talking about, yeah, did you hear about that fire? They found a body. This is Tuesday now. Like, ugh, crazy. Then I'm like, what?

Later that night, I get off duty. I'm going to hang out with my friends. And I left home and my wife Kate calls me and she's like crying. You need to come home. The coroners are here. And I immediately knew. I was like, is she dead? Is she dead? And like, I just knew. Then I went home and turns out she died in that car fire that I almost went to for work.

And then my brother called me, and I think I ignored your first call, 'cause I was like, "I'm tired, I just wanna rest for a second." And then he called again, so I finally picked up, and all he said is, "Mom's dead." And I was like, "Okay." Thought he was joking. Thought he was joking. I was like, "That's a sick joke. "Please don't joke about that." He was like, "Alex, I'm serious. "Mom, Mom is dead." And I lost it. I was alone at my house.

So I hung up the phone. I remember going to the bathroom, like nothing was even coming up, but I just felt so sick, which is the same reaction that I had when my dad, when I got the phone call about my dad, I kept running back and forth to the toilet, not even throwing up, just dry heaving. Dave called me. It was about 9 o'clock at night, and...

And I was like, just at the corner from my house. I could see my house. And Dave, he's like, hey, Liza. And I'm like, hi, what's up? And he's like, nothing. And I could tell in his voice. I knew something was wrong. So I go, what's going on? And he goes, what are you doing right now? And I said, driving home.

He goes, okay, well, call me when you get back home. And I go, nope, tell me now. And it was like, what is it that you know? Like, you just know something is... Probably I was like, hey, what are you doing? No, you weren't. So I pulled over and I could see my house from where I pulled over. So I was almost home. And he's like, you stopped the car. You're not driving. I said, no, I'm not driving. He goes, okay, fine.

Well, mom is dead. And I, like, time stopped. And I just remember saying, okay, okay, okay, okay. And I kept saying it over and over again. And Dave goes, are you okay? And I go, well, I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm going to call you back. And I drove through my alley, got my car parked into the garage, and

grabbed all my groceries and shut the garage door. And then I ran like as fast as I could holding a bunch of groceries. And as soon as I got into the house, it was like the moment that time had stopped, it had all sped back up and crashed into me. And I collapsed when I got inside and my husband was sitting on the couch and

And he looked at me and he was like, what is wrong? And I said, I just said, like, my mom is dead. And I was just, I, like, couldn't speak. And I just, like, wailed. And I remember, like, like a gut level soul wail. Because I felt like, like, like hope, not just my mom had died, but, like, my hope had died. And I knew...

Like the last couple times I had seen my mom, I was so conscious about how I hugged her and how I said goodbye to her because I knew some like deep part of myself that that was probably the last time I was going to see her. So I just got into action mode and was like,

I made some phone calls and I was on a plane at like 10 o'clock the next morning to California. I even did laundry that night. Like, it's so weird how you have these moments of lucidity in like your grief. Michelle's death, like her husband's, was headline news in Los Gatos. The articles said the same thing. She was a great person, a great wife, a great mom. Here is what those articles didn't say.

She was driving in the mountains at night, which is so not normal for my mom. She hated driving, especially at night. And there was nothing for her to be in that area while she was there. So we don't know the exact circumstances and no one ever will, but she was in a really weird place at a really weird time and drove off a cliff.

Which brings us back to that crowded radio studio where the Achille kids are packed in to talk about all this tragedy with a total stranger. That'd be me. It's crowded in that studio, but that studio holds the entire Achille family. The three of them, David, Liza, and Alex, are all that's left. And while it's the nature of families to expand and contract,

And while Liza and David each have kids of their own, this little group in a studio is what remains of the nucleus. All of the shared memories and experiences of Mark and Michelle Achille as parents are in this room together. I mean, we've always been really close growing up, but I feel like they've filled everything.

They filled the roles as my parents for the most part. When something exciting happens, they're the first people I call. And something bad happens, they're the first people I want to call. Like, I want my brother to walk me down the aisle when I get married. And I... I wouldn't... I don't think I'd be here without them. I know I wouldn't be here without them. We do a really good job at keeping us all afloat. And that if...

Liza crumbles, my brother and I are here if I crumble, my brother and sister are here if Dave crumbles. We're here. We just do a really good job at keeping us together. And we're the three musketeers. It's like war. If you go to war, you go through stuff together, breaks you down to your core. One or two things happen. You either go your separate ways and never want to see those people again, or you're bonded for life and...

We already had the bonding and it just like made it like we need each other now more than ever because it's like it's all we got left. It's all we got left. And like you never know when you're a parent if you're doing a good job. All families are complicated. But all you want to know is that your kids will all love each other and be there for each other. You did a good enough job with them that they can do that.

That they'll be okay, even if you're murdered in your driveway or if you die in a fiery car wreck. That when the world breaks them, and it will, that they'll be stronger in the broken places. And if they aren't, or they can't be, that they'll at least have each other to carry them along. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye. I need a beer.

Good job, guys. How are you guys? I think we did it justice. I think it was really good. You and what you said about mom was really good. So good. Yeah. I want to hear it so bad. I was like freezing cold and sweating at the same time.

I'm Nora McInerney, and this has been Terrible. Thanks for asking. You can find our show at ttfa.org. We are a production of Feelings & Co., an independent podcast production company. Our team is myself, Marcel Malakibu, Jordan Turgeon, Megan Palmer, and Claire McInerney. Our theme music is by Joffrey Lamar Wilson.

You can always get in touch with us by calling 612-568-4441 or emailing us terrible at feelings and dot co. We are working on new episodes right now. And if you have an episode idea for us, reach out, send us an email, call us, or go to ttfa.org and submit your story idea.

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