A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing Season 2, Episode 13, That'll Be the Day. Kevin helps Randall and Beth with repairs on their new venture. Kate contemplates a surprise for Toby. Jack and Rebecca talk about starting a business together. Hello. What up, gang? Dramatic. Ha!

That was a dramatic reading. That'll be the day with a little bit of foreshadowing there. That's right. This will be the day. This is the day. This is the day. For the rest of their lives. Not the episode, but it is the day and the precursor to... The episode. The episode, right? The day the audience would not...

Shut up about it. Shut up about it. So by this time, the audience knows that we're going to be on after the Super Bowl, right? Which is the following week. Was it actually on...

no it was on tuesday obviously it was sunday yeah what have you but so then we had two episodes in that week is that how it went did we have tuesday then sunday yeah right so now folks are getting the pump has been primed so to speak at the end of the last episode we saw the smoke detector battery was not present that's right we open up on this episode and there's this delightful

elder couple in their garage talking about how they're about to sell their home, going through their things and saying like, you know what? We got to get rid of some of this stuff. We can't keep it all. We'll get a new place. We'll have new things. What are their names? George and Sally. George and Sally. They're so good. Yeah. Like George and Sally made me dream about being an older couple. Yeah.

I was like, I want to have that level of playfulness and just familiarity. Like, I feel like those actors must have known each other. But if they didn't, man, did they just kill the idea that, like, they've been together forever.

Yes. And Jack McGee plays George. Yes. And Jane Daly plays Sally. Jack and Jane. And again, two more legends to the This Is Us cast roster. I think Jack, wasn't Jack McGee a good friend of Dan's? I believe so. A personal friend of Dan's from some other project. That sounds right. And in the long run, after all of this was said and done, Jack...

Got a lot of blame. Jack got a lot. Remember? Well, we'll get to that. Yeah. Just remember we said that. Yeah. Jack was like, Dan, what'd you do to me? Not what he signed up for. Thought I was just being friendly neighbor. It's Super Bowl Sunday. It's Super Bowl Sunday. The chili is on. Jack and Rebecca clearly have their...

their sort of traditions, which is chili on Super Bowl. They do shots, except this year it's orange juice and not vodka. That's right. Correct. You talk a lot about the chili. A lot about the chili. Chili's good. To be clear as to what chili gets cooked in. Yeah.

Again, let's clock that for later. There's also, like Jack said at the end of the last episode, like he wanted to start big three houses. Yeah. Right? And you're like, okay. And then he says like, well, maybe I don't just quit the job completely. He's going through the paper. Maybe I can start with a few flips and that'll be a good way to sort of ease my way into it. You know, kids are about to go off to college.

Maybe I'll just upend everything, right? And you're like, yeah, it's a good idea. Not so bad, right? Yeah. Sure. This is the last Super Bowl with the kids too. So there's a lot, the big deal being made about that. That's right. This clearly is like a huge event in the Pearson household. It's something that kind of collectively do all together as a family every year. And the fact that this is the last one before everybody leaves.

flies away, the parents are feeling that. - Hand me the hat. Can you reach it? - Yeah, I can reach it. - We'll put it out front. So there it is, big three homes. - Big three. This reminds me too, as I have a teenager in the house and a nine-year-old, that Jack and Rebecca were not in this particular moment, if things would have gone according to plan,

they don't get a chance to gradually become empty nesters. Right. All at once. All three of them have their own angsty version of teenage or angsty version of sort of like leaving and cleaving, separating, finding their own identity that is separate and distinct from their parents. Yes. Even though Randall still like probably like holds on like the tightest, but like,

that you don't get a chance to like, "Oh, one's gone. I still got these two." - No, all at once. - Like they're about to all at the same time. I'm so thankful that I don't have triplets. - Same.

You know what I'm saying? I already feel like, oh, when the first one's gone, that's going to be tough. But I still got this baby. And then when he's gone, that'll be tough. But at least I would have been able to prepare for it a little bit. You know? You guys, it's just going to be gone. And as you see through the course of the episode, we stick through just like the past episode.

timeline, right? There is a... Well, Kate has applied to Berkeley. That's right. And she finds out that she's gotten a final round of Berkeley. They want... An original song. An original song, right? Kevin is applying to Allegheny Community College. This is Allison Randall's girlfriend that's sort of asking Kevin what he's doing because she hears that Sophie has applied to NYU and she's waiting to hear about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Kevin is...

you know, pretty down on his choices that he has in front of him. Yeah. And then Randall's happy because he's got a girlfriend. The little redhead girl's at the crib. He's pretty much in a great place, right? But let's do the Kate one because I think that's pretty interesting because Jack offers to record her. He's like, we can record it. We send in the whole thing. It's going to be fantastic. And she's like, no, that's like the last thing that I want. And I'm like, oh, Katie, girl, you're absolutely beautiful. By the way,

Script-wise, was "Katy Grille" ever scripted or is that just Milo? - I think that was just Milo. - It's pretty good. - Yeah. - I love "Katy Grille." Like, yeah, I love "Katy Grille." That's it. I just wanted to say that. It was a good discovery and it stuck and I love it. She doesn't want that though. So she goes to rehearse her song

In her room. In her room by herself and she's just in the recorder, audio recorder doing her thing. It's also called a microphone. I don't know. With a tape cassette. Tape cassette. I'm losing terms. But she's doing this song. She's doing her thing. She's chilling. And then Jack trying to be as quiet as possible.

is recording it, right? - That's his style. - That's his thing. - Stealth videographer. - It's also, it's very Milo. - Yeah, true. - Who pops up on set and he's just got a camera in his back, he's like, "Hey, Sterl." Just taking shots. She sees in the mirror that he did it and she's like, "What is your problem? I told you not to do this. Like, I don't like it," right? - It turned out to be one of my favorite shots

Of the whole show. It's a great shot. The evocative nature of a father kind of- Viewing his daughter. Doting on his daughter. Yeah. Him in the mirror. They use it a couple of times now in montages and things after we see it for this first time. Sure. And it's really, it affects me a lot, yeah. Well, if you guys remember the lines, let me know. Because she tells him, I need you to stop saying that.

that I'm beautiful and stuff, because that's not the, and I don't know if it's this episode or previous. - No, it's this episode. - It's this episode. She's like, because that's not the way people relate to me. And it's not the way I see myself. So anytime you say it, it just makes me feel bad. So will you just stop? - Yeah. - And like- - Yeah, like I don't see myself the way you see me. So stop doing that. - It is these moments of like,

My little girl is not a little girl in the things. And he had a section like this in season one where he was trying to sort of like talk her up. The things aren't working anymore. They're not working anymore. You're at the birthday party, right? And so there's a circling back to that again now and just like, will you just stop? Okay? Yeah. And it's almost like Jack doesn't have words so he just has to

Stop. Yeah. Right? She winds up getting a hold of the videotape, maybe out of curiosity. I'm not sure exactly what prompts her to look at it, but she does. She looks at the videotape and more important than seeing herself sing is that in the reflection, she can see her dad looking at her. Yeah. And Brown got a little teary on this one. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Because my man is looking at this girl with pure unadulterated,

Yeah. Admiration, love. Just. Unconditional. Beaming. Yeah. And so she comes back and she's asked, I wrote it down. I want to get it right. She says, don't stop. Yeah. Like never stop seeing me that way. Okay. She says, don't ever stop. Don't stop trying to make me see myself the way you see me. Okay. Katie girl. I won't stop. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh. Wow. It's ridiculous.

good yeah we rarely get they mentioned it a couple episodes previous where it's like i wish somebody would have filmed our childhood yeah yeah and when you said that in the episode i was like well somebody did sure andy saved the tapes andy i mean sorry jumping ahead jumping ahead but we know now you still have the tapes yeah somehow that's right somehow you've got these tapes right right because yeah and you might not be able to see your whole life but to catch a glimpse

an inarguable glimpse of the way somebody sees you is hard to do. Priceless. It's like when someone takes a photo of you and your partner and neither one of you knows you're being photographed and you happen to see the way that you're looking at each other or the way they're looking at you or vice versa. Sure. Hopefully it happens to me someday. LAUGHTER

They're just rare moments. And I guess maybe that's why that shot affects me so much. Yeah, it's a beautiful shot. It really is. Shot by Milo. He's using the real cameras when he's shooting those things. Absolutely. So as you said, Kev now in the past is applying to Allegheny. They're getting ready for the Super Bowl. I remember there's a conversation. Jack's showing him...

The entertainment center. Yeah, and he's nonplussed. Right, and he's like, what is this? What's the big deal? And he's like, you know what, man? Like, every time I feel like reaching for a drink, I just pick up a hammer instead. Right? Stay busy. Yeah, so Kev sort of clocks that, what have you. And you guys, I'm going to do something really strange. But I want to say something from the previous episode while we're talking about Lady 13. Sure.

there's a moment when the two Pearson men, Jack and Kevin, are putting on their suits. Yeah. And they're like doing their ties up or whatnot. And you see like Kev is kind of feeling good in the suit. Like he actually looks good with his crutches and whatnot. And Jack is fixing them up. And I can't remember what's happening, but like,

We're so used to seeing Logan just be so disdainful and dismissive, et cetera. But he sees his dad helping him look like a man and become a man. And he just says, "Thank you."

Right. And I want to say that because it was a moment that touched me. Yeah. Right. To where like, I'm not always shitting on him because he always seems like he's like going through the worst time. And he is going through the worst time. And he's 17 and he has all these hormones rushing through his body. And he had this one perception of what his life was going to be because he gets to the Super Bowl. You guys, you guys don't understand. I wasn't supposed to be here watching the Super Bowl like you guys. I was supposed to be in it.

And now my life is shit. My girlfriend is going to the school of her dreams. All of the prospects that I had, I'm applying to. Mom is like, junior college isn't so bad. It's great. He's like, don't try. Yeah, don't placate me. You know what I'm saying? And it's like Kate and Kevin are both going through that thing at the same time. You guys can try to say things and make it seem like we know what it is.

to a certain extent? We know. I'll put that in quotation marks. Let us live it to a certain extent, right? Then everybody sort of winds up sort of peacing out also. It's important. Kate says after she has her moment with her dad, she's like, you know what? Actually, my homie is having people over. Is it okay if I go over there? Yeah.

Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Kev's like, I'm going to go hang out with Sophie. We may watch, we may not. I don't even think they wind up watching it. They're watching The Princess Bride. He then says, hey, I hear there's a party in the woods tonight. And he hears there's a party in the woods. But as all the things that they were doing to have this last moment

final Super Bowl together. Everybody's just sort of trickling out. Randall. Goes to Titanic. Randall is as happy as a pig in slop. To see it the seventh time. But he's like, that actually, I was thinking about taking Allison to the movies. We're going to go see Titanic.

And he's like, haven't you seen it? He's like, I can't remember. They're like, she hasn't seen it. She's seen it seven times. She's seen it seven times. He's like, but we actually haven't gone on like our first date. And he's like, go ahead, man. He's like, thanks, Don. And he's gone. This is how this can be. And so it's just the two. It's just J and R.

like by themselves where their teenage kids are all like thinking about something completely different. But this beautiful moment transpires where you're trying to get him to eat. What was you trying to get him to eat? Like corn muffins. You're trying to give him the corn. Like cornbread. He's like, I'm not really into it. He's like, I'm trying to do something sweet, dude. Just eat a corn muffin. Yeah.

And he flips it open and you've circled something from the real estate section about a building or a house. An elder couple is leaving it and it's a bit of a renovation or what have you. But I think it would be a really good start for you in terms of what you were talking about earlier. And your husband looks at you and he's like, do this with me. And you're like, what? Yeah. Like, I just try to be helpful. Like that. Like, you don't have to do this. He's like, I wouldn't do anything that I didn't want to do.

Yeah, and he's like, you handled the renovation here? Yeah. And she's like, well, I kind of did. Yeah, I did the finances and I was organized and I coordinated everything. And I think like the idea starts to dawn on her like,

I am pretty good at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I could handle that. Also a real life love of Mandy Morris. Yeah, true. I was like, that sounds fun. I also think it's funny, as Dan was working on this show and having his wife be on the show, I feel like there's something sort of going on with him. He's like, can I work with my wife? Yeah.

Let's figure out how this works. Let me see how it works on the show. If I'm writing a handbook for a living, let's see what happens if a husband and wife work together. More That Was Us after this short break.

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They watch the Super Bowl. Folks are, he realizes everybody's gone, so he's got to start cleaning up. Was he already upstairs asleep? Yeah, no, we were, we go upstairs. That's right. You guys get, the party gets started because you're over the table. Yep. Right? It starts to get a little hot. You can't have sex in the office. In the office. That's not professional. So we go upstairs. Boots get knocked.

Knocked boots. Boots are knocked. And then- Beck is asleep. She's asleep. And he's like, "You know what? I guess I gotta go straighten up the house." He also writes a note to Kevin who sort of just slipped out. He told you that he was leaving, but he didn't tell Jack that he was leaving after sort of like blowing up at him. He says, "You know, if I don't talk to you, I love you. You owe us an apology." Right? Right. That was like the note. Goes down to the kitchen.

Putting up food, sweeping the floor, dishes in the dishwasher. - Randall comes in. - Randall comes in. "How was the date, son?" He's like, "It was pretty great." And he says that he had his first kiss, which is so sweet. 'Cause listen, Brown's a late bloomer. Brown was 15. Randall was 17 years old for his first kiss! - Is 15 late?

I think it's late. Is it? That's pretty late. I don't know. First kiss, how old? I guess 14 or 15. Okay. Yeah. Same. I felt late. Like first real kiss, there was like a truth or dare sort of like peck. No, 13. See, look. Okay, it's all coming back. I told you. No, it's all coming back. Junior high. Okay. Churchill Middle School. Yes. Little skinny Chris.

Look at that smile. Is dating, dating. Yeah. Remember when you used to date? Of course. And it just involved like talking to the person. Sure. Like right after lunch. Yes. For 10 minutes a day. Yeah.

Her name was Marisola. Yeah, it was. I won't say a last name. Marisola is perfect. And we kissed at the dance. We both had giant metal braces. And they didn't get caught on? Oh, they did. Yeah, yeah. It was. And she, we kissed. And then we would kiss at lunch at the lockers. Okay. Right before I go to class, right? And she would wear real dark lipstick with even darker lip liner.

Just leave it all over you. Well, I didn't know. And I'd walk into class and my teacher would be like, get out of here. What? Just... Just...

Just lipstick all over this face. And what, you want me to go wash your face? Yeah. Oh, my God. First kiss Mandy Moore, please. Oh, my God. I can't remember. No. There's been so many. No, that's not true. Mandy says every kiss is my first kiss. Yeah, exactly. I can't remember, you guys. No, come on. You just don't want to talk about it? No, no. I truly am like...

- Okay, I'm gonna go. - It was in Orlando. - I'm gonna go. - Okay, go, go. - And then you think about it. - Okay. - First kiss, sophomore year of high school. That's what I'm saying, I felt like I was late. - That's right. - Okay, I guess. - That's late. - Yeah, that's what I'm saying. - I guess I wouldn't, I guess now that I'm an adult with kids, I'm thinking, "That's not late enough." Like, wait a minute, what do you mean 15? - College. - Yeah, yeah. - Right, well, 'cause 17 is a little-- - You're gonna live with me until you're 25, and then after that, you're gonna take me to lunch every day. - That's what he said.

Uh, look at you. Look at that sly. Um, I was 15 and I was at a party.

And there's dancing party, not really like most parties where I went to school weren't meant for dancing. It was for people, listen, doing things that they weren't supposed to be doing at age 15 with regards to imbibement, right? So there's imbibing, et cetera, but having a good time, there's dancing, folks are grooving. And this one girl starts dancing with me. Her name is Tanya, right? And like, we're dancing close. It's fun.

Things are percolating. We're having a good time. My friend who has the car, who has the Jeep that's gonna take us home, he's like, "Hey, you guys don't have all day. I gotta get out of here soon." So he's gonna give everybody a ride home. So I'm sitting where he's giving me a ride home and she's giving her a ride home, right? And so I'm sitting in the front seat of the Jeep

and she's sort of like massaging my shoulders can we real quick before we get too far away from your friend with the jeep remember a time when you could be in the middle of kissing somebody and a friend would touch you while it was happening hey listen this we're about to get pretty much to that decorum none and you're kissing it like anyways and they're like this this close hey you guys are you guys done are you finished because i have to go

I love it. Go on. It's about to be something like that. So he goes, he drops us at her house first. And as I'm walking her to the door, he goes, I got five minutes. That's not all you got. No. Great. And I was like, oh, gosh. So I drop it over because she's going to invite me in. Right? I was like, you know what? I can't let my man wait. Like, I kind of got to get out of here. And she's like, you got to go? Wow. And I was like, yeah. She's like, you got to go right now. Tanya. And I'm like, yeah.

and then the tongues. - Oh, wow, tongue. - Listen, I told you, imbibement had happened. So like you kind of go to like, you skip steps to a certain extent. - Didn't even kiss, they just knocked tongues together. - It was so wet and so, listen. - Mandy, are you remembering yours at all? - So messy.

and so delightful. - So delightful. - It was just the best thing ever. - Shout out Tanya. - Shout out Tanya. I wound up, right? 'Cause she had to kiss me. I don't even know if she knows that she was my first kiss, right? - Right. - But it was, I was on cloud nine.

- It's awesome. So that's my first kiss. You have to remember- - I don't. - Orlando, 1992. - It's not '92. - Or '98. - My first kiss, not real kiss, but was with Jesse. We were in a production of "The Christmas Carol" together. He played my brother. - Okay. Was this on stage then?

Was it a reinterpretation of the Christmas game? It was a game of truth or dare backstage. Mandy's a tiny Tim. She had a little crutch. We were the cratchits. God bless us. But we played a game of truth or dare, and he was my first kiss. Okay. How old? I want to say I was 13. Okay. So you guys were a couple years before. Yeah. But very innocent. There was no kissing with tongues for...

- A very long time. - Yeah, I skipped that. - I was like recording music about being in love and hadn't French kissed a boy before. - And in the meantime, looking back, like the music that was being played at my junior high dance is like strip club music. - Totally. - What was happening? - Totally. - Jesus.

Just simulated grind. 13-year-old was backing it up. Yeah. And you're like, what? These are 13-year-olds. Come through, genuine. And you're like, what the? Totally. Pony. Okay. That was a good little interlude of first kisses there. Jack finishes straightening things up. We flash back to George and Sally. Sally.

And she's like, Sally's telling them, "Hey, George, we're gonna get new things. We'll get a new place. Don't even worry about it." - Well, we got a bite on the house. She's like, "We got a bite on the house." - Right. We got a bite on the house, especially after we have just heard Jack and Rebecca talking about they wanna flip this house, right? - So you think that this is the- - This is the couple. - This is the house that they're gonna be flipping, what have you.

So George winds up going to the garage and he's like, you know what? I just don't want things to just go. He wants to give something to somebody that will be of value, of use, right? So he winds up bringing a box across the street. He knocks on the door and we see young Jack and Rebecca getting their house together. Pre-kids, right? Yeah, she's pregnant. Yeah, she's pregnant with the kid. They're like, hey, hey, George. You know, they're like, hey, George. Hey.

Do them all. Do them all. What did George say? He's like, look, I got something here. I got this. I got this thing. Soul cooker. There you go. I got this. You guys want me? All right.

But he says, listen, it still works. A lot of good meals have come from this thing. It was only two years old. I'm like, what? Yeah, it's not that bad. Why are you getting rid of it, George? It still works. It's like, I'm going to be dead soon. It still works. You got to jiggle the handle a little bit, but it still works. I got to be fast cooking. I can't be slow cooking. I need my meals like now.

That's when George got the first microwave. They got rid of the slow cooker just to zap all the nutrients out of the food. And then we see Jack is folding a towel, puts it down next to the slow cooker, and he turns the slow cooker off. Yep. Right? So it's like, cool. And then you hear this thing, like, you got to jiggle the handle a little bit, et cetera. He leaves the kitchen.

I don't know if he makes it all the way back up to the bedroom or what have you. I can't tell. But like a T2000. You see like the light flicker on the smoke cooker. Yeah, it opens its eye. And then catches on fire. And then the towel right next to it. In this episode? Yes. Yeah.

yeah fire starts i thought we just saw the little one you see that then because the towel is next to it and then the towel ignites and then in that same episode you see the curtains on the back of the kitchen start to go stuck and then dan fogelman says yeah that'll be enough till next week that's about he's like let me go ahead and add this song in there that's going to make everyone weep what to talk to build a home

To build a home. This is the song we've been talking about for a few episodes now by the cinematic orchestra featuring... Patrick Watson or something? That's right. That sounds right. This is an orchestra, obviously, that does mostly instrumentals. And I looked on this album, and this is the only song on this album with vocals. And it is one of the most evocative songs I have ever heard. And to this day...

Same. I hear it and I'm like, "Oof." Takes me back immediately to this moment. I will say, for the sake of overstatement, never has a song done so much for a moving picture and moving picture done so much for a song. It is the perfect- Synchronicity. Synchronicity. Yeah. It's probably Dan Fogelman, right? I'm sure. Who found this song. The man just has impeccable taste in music. Yeah.

And we go through this montage of the house-- -Catching fire. -Catching fire. While simultaneously reliving some of the most important moments in their life. Ugh, it's like I was weeping. -A mess. -Yeah. A mess. And you see the note burning to Kevin. I mean, it was just like so much.

So that's what happens in the past. So that's what happens in the past. Can we do Katogi there? Sure, yeah. Because this is one of the funnier openings, I think, to you guys. You're in bed on the computer and then Kate walks into the bedroom and you hide the computer. Yeah, you like slam the computer. And she's like, "What are you doing?" You're like, "Nothing."

"No, don't worry about it." She's like, "You watching porn?" You're like, "No, not watching porn." She's like, "What you think?" - I know a season and a half of television would lead you to believe that I am, but I am not.

I love how casual. I'm not horny. The writers just write me this way. How casual she is. She's like, that's it. I want to know. Yeah, she's like, what are you into? What's the kink, big dog? Let's see if we can work this out. And you're like, no, it's not that. She winds up getting the computer. You relent. And it's puppies. Just pages and pages. Pet finder, right? What do you tell her? What's the reason that you're on it for? Masturbation. What are we talking about?

Now here's the thing. This is my favorite part is when our producers try not to laugh. They're just like, what is wrong with this guy? That's not why they were laughing. They weren't laughing about like what was wrong with this guy, Sterling. They were laughing because it was a funny joke. It was a funny joke. Sterling, how dare you? What's wrong with that? That pushes the limits of what the brand of this is. Again, I didn't write me this way. But nobody's writing you now. I didn't.

I beg to differ. This is all scripted. This is all... I give all glory to God. Um...

I got him. Oh, Jesus. No, it's something that he does to pass the time. It's kind of a, he pictures himself a dog owner. He knows, he even says, I know that dogs are a tricky subject for you, but it's something that I blah, blah, blah. I mean, I have this in my life. Do you have anything in your life that it's not social media related, say, that is like a little like online habit that you're like,

- 'Cause for me, it's real estate. - Same, same. I will be like, you know, I visited Rachel's grandpa in Quincy, Illinois once.

I wonder what the real estate market in Quincy, Illinois is like. Oh, same. And I go on. That's it. Zillow or what? Yeah. I'm a Trulia guy. Okay. Not paid advertisement. Not yet. But one of my favorite pastimes is to go, especially since the LA market is so overblown, is to go to a small town like Quincy and see what the most expensive house in Quincy, Illinois is. It's a fun game. Pick a small town and find the biggest house

And that one in particular was great. You guys, on a mountaintop, a stone house made of like a big block stone. Looked like a castle on a mountaintop. Yeah. How old? Like recent. Oh, okay. Like 20 years old. Okay. Cuanto cuesta? How much? Hold on. Okay. 10 bedrooms, 12 bathrooms. What? Four car garage, 10 acres.

You have to guess first? I do want you to guess. Quincy, Illinois. How much do you think it was? How far is Quincy from Chicago? Yeah, what's the biggest major city? The biggest major city is Hannibal, Missouri. Nope. I'm from Missouri. We flew into St. Louis. And then we took a puddle jumper to Quincy. Okay. This was maybe four or five years ago. I hope I don't go too low. I'm going to say one seven. I'm going to say two. $750,000. Stop it.

You guys, we live in the wrong city. Anyways, so that's what I do online when I'm like bored. I'm looking at things. Mine is games. Mind games. Oh, you love like word games. You?

- Is Jeff our producer just went to find a house? - Are you in Quincy, Illinois? - Oh, you gotta find it. Maybe it's off market now. - It must be off market at this point. - Oh, that's cute. - 750. - I think so. I think that's what I remember, yeah. - Yeah, I like my age. - Sterling, you got me into spelling bee and then I got Taylor into spelling me. - So you guys do it? - Yeah. - Do you try to make it to like queen bee or do you try to make it to genius or? - Oh, no. - Do you guys have any shame around your mindless internet behavior?

Like when someone sees you doing it, you're like, oh, hey, no, I'm not doing anything. Or do you indulge? I mean, the scroll is, I feel not great about it. Yeah, I could be doing something else. Correct. Raya's social media, she's in the midst of transitioning from...

But she TikToks hard. - Oh, wow. - She TikToks hard. And she doesn't, she shouldn't do it with any shame. But then every once in a while, Andrew grabs her phone when she tries to get him to get off his phone and looks up her screen time. And then he says, "So you want me to stop being on my phone?" And he'll show like 23 hours of screen time because Ryan never turns her phone off. - I don't either. - You don't? - No, I like, I keep the baby

on all night so i'm like oh wow what i mean by office like she has something on her settings where if you if you flip it open the screen never goes off the screen never goes off got it right so he's like how dare you come at me for screen time no i'm not i'm not ashamed of it i'm pretty good with it and so toby's been fantasy shopping for dogs fantasy shopping and maybe a dog knows that it's a difficult thing for kate right and so he's keeping it to himself

Kate sees that, you know, my husband really wants a dog. So let me see if I can get over whatever it is that's holding me back from this. She's like, this is the first thing he's been excited about that's not sex. Yeah. In the entirety of the time that I've known him. Yeah.

She goes to a shelter and she meets up with a guest that we're going to have on the show later on that I'm very excited to talk to, Miss Lena Waithe. Oh my gosh. The best. Who's just so cool. And she was like, it feels like the perfect person

sort of cameo for her. You know what I'm saying? Because she's just hanging with dogs and she's so easy and laid back. - And it instantly made us like an HBO show. She comes on and you're like, oh, we just leveled up. - Oh, we're cool. - We totally leveled up. - We're actually cool. - Totally. But there's also just like a natural sort of nonchalance and coolness that she has.

that balances with Kate's anxiety over everything that's going on, right? And so she thinks she has a dog in her mind and then she sees this dog off to the side. I gotta say, I'm not necessarily a pet person. Let me be, I have a dog. It's a complicated relationship for us because I'm still learning how to be a pet person with a dog. But when I saw that dog, I was like,

that dog's pretty cute. - That's a cute dog. - I could have a dog like that, right? And so you see Kate also be very much attracted to Audio, is his name. And they're in the room with Lena, like trying to finalize how they're gonna do the sale, et cetera. And Lena has to leave for something. I gotta go grab something, I'll be right back.

And Kate's just stroking the dog, petting the dog and saying the whole time, this isn't gonna work. Like I thought I was ready for something like this, but I'm just not. But she never stops not petting the dog. Her hand is on him the whole time. And I was like, I don't know if your words and your actions are in synchronous, but she does get teary or whatnot. It looks like she's gonna leave and says, I'm sorry, I just can't do this. She comes home.

She comes home to her man and she tells him, like, look, I went to this pet shelter today thinking that, you know, maybe a dog would be the right thing. You remember, you say, I talk too much on this thing. No, you don't. It just dawned on me. I think I talk entirely too much on this podcast. No, you are such a great leader. I appreciate that. You are. It's very sweet. But you were in the scene.

You have a better perspective on it than myself. She comes home and says, listen, I know that this seems like it means a lot to you. Yeah. I've thought about it. Dan and the writers give a little bit of a head fake, like it's not going to happen. Right. And then she says, but I did. Yeah. And she says, come out into the hallway or whatnot. And I would like to say for a dog that has never been in a house...

that I thank you for just staying still. - No, listen. - Talk to us a little bit, 'cause I know a little bit of this. The old saying in Hollywood, babies and pets. - Don't work with them. - You can't really control them. - It makes a day of shooting difficult. And our writers just kept adding more children and more pets at every turn.

How was this dog? This dog was great. This dog was great. This dog was well-trained. I cannot remember the dog's real name. Okay. Wait, can we also talk about the fact that like, where did he go? One of the great TIU mysteries. Wait. That's right. Wait a minute. He didn't stay? After the pandemic, we came back and audio was just gone. Really? Yeah. Because they were like, we can't. I never addressed.

I know that. Yeah. Well, he refused to wear a mask. And so the writers were like, well, then, kick rocks. We'll be right back with more That Was Us.

I'm about to go on a trip with the family gang. We're going down under. It's going to be the first time that we as a family... You're talking about Australia? I'm talking about Australia. We as a family are going down under for the first time. I'm very, very excited about it. I'm already planning everything. Trying to figure out what we're going to do. If we're going to go see some crocodiles and kangaroos and all that kind of stuff. And we're also trying to figure out where to stay.

Hey, I have an idea. What do you got? You should get an Airbnb. You think so? Hotels can be fine, right? But nothing beats having a full place to yourself, especially when traveling with a family. I like that. Like yours or a group. Now there's no fighting over who gets the last hotel key card or squeezing into one room with all your...

Bags everywhere. God. And don't get me started on those tiny hotel mini fridges. Don't start. Not enough room. Don't start. I love knowing that I'm going to have a place that actually feels like home, especially if I need to pack specific things for my little ones. Not to get too heavy, but we were displaced from the fires and we...

Relied on Airbnb. We moved from Airbnb to Airbnb all over this city of Los Angeles over the last couple of weeks. And I'm so grateful because you can get specific, you can get granular about exactly what you need. I love that. Like with little ones, if they have a crib or a pack and play or a toy,

making sure there's not a staircase. I love Airbnb. It makes you feel like you're staying at home. You have the creature comforts at home that you just, you can't get when you're staying in a hotel. Also, just thank you Airbnb for taking care of my girl, Mandy Moore. And as wonderful as it is to feel at home in someone else's home,

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Tell them this thing, because Sully has dogs too. Yeah, I've got a couple of dogs. I was watching the scene and I saw when audio goes to give the doggy kiss to Sully, there's a little bit of like, okay. He sort of like pulls back a little bit. Well, the trainer, we're like, okay, how do we do this? Oh, and by the way, none of the writers asked either Chrissy or I, hey, you guys allergic to dogs? Are you? Yes.

You have dogs though. - We have hypoallergenic dogs, hypoallergenic breeds. But even still I'm a little allergic to them. - Okay. - You know, if I really get in there, I can. You don't do that with your dog. - I told you guys, I'm still learning. I'm still learning how to like my dog. - Does your family love the dog? - So I had a dog growing up. - Yeah. - Similar. - Much like Kate Pearson. - To Kate Pearson.

And his name was Dutch. He was a rescue, half German Shepherd, half Kali.

Love me some Dutch, right? And I remember acutely while it wasn't the same way. I don't know. We don't know exactly what happened to the Pearson's dog back in the day because he's cool. But I remember Dutch passing away. He had developed arthritis. He's dragging a while and to the point where he actually wore a hole in his paw, what have you, and just things were going down. And I remember one day coming home

And being like, guys, where's Dutch? Right? And I saw my parents look at each other because they had taken them to the Humane Society, I think, the day before. And there was a day as a kid where you just jumbled. I was like, I didn't see Dutch. And it's like, no, wait, Dutch isn't here again. Where's Dutch? And they're like, you know, had to put...

Put Dutch down. And so I think part of me learning how to like my dog is knowing, and we talked about this a little bit before, is that eventually they'll be gone. - Yeah. - I recently heard someone say that dogs are here to teach us how to die. - Yes. - Did you say that on this podcast? - No, you said it. You said it, 'cause I think we've mentioned this briefly before, right? Because

It does prepare us with the eventuality of human passing that transpires in our life. -If you've dealt with it to some degree... - The cycle of life and death. ...with a pet before, then you have some level of what to expect. -Understanding. -Yeah, understanding. -Existence and passing. -Exactly. So I still think, though, that Brown... -Carries that trauma. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -So I don't get-- -Same way Kate does. And I don't get-- I don't-- I'm still not very close with the dog. Because this is probably...

i would say the most surprising thing i know about you yeah because if you asked anyone on the street if you showed them a single clip of you or they know anything about you this guy is this guy fanatical about dogs yeah this guy is crazy about him is a retriever the energy he's he really is i am

He's going to wear you down. Maybe he will. You just need to get in there and give him a little. Wait, do the kids and Ryan, are they obsessed? Love the dog. Yeah. They love the dog. So the dog is high energy. Yeah. I'll say the dog's name, but I usually refer to him as the dog. That's probably why. This is an able bonding. Hold on. Yes, today, listen. Say his name.

His name is Zion. That's right. His name is Zion. Okay, so Zion is a high energy dog. Yeah, like a lion. As soon as you come into the house, jumping and jumping and all this sort of thing. And it's not necessarily my style. It reminds me at one point in time, this is funny. At one point in time, we had like a base camp PA on our show who was a very high energy individual.

I can't believe this is where this is going. - Wait, is this the person that was there for the first season and then- - Yeah, I'm just saying high energy. And sometimes when you have an early call and it's the first thing in the morning, that level of energy can be a little like, oh. - Jarring. - Yeah, a little jarring. So Zion for me is similar, something like that. And so I've actually trained Zion

So he'll come home and he'll get excited. And he'll be like, he'll remember, oh, it's Sterling. So then he'll sit still. Oh, buddy. Tail is like this. Can't control the tail. He'll get this. Can't train the tail. And then if I go to like pet him, to go pet him, he'll go like this. And then he'll be like.

- Oh, I love him. - And then he'll get scratches. - That's right. - He'll get scratches. - Oh, I love him. - So I'm not malevolent. You know what I'm saying? But I was like, I had to actually show him. I was like, "Hey, I actually kind of need you to meet me where I am too." - Halfway. - You know what I'm saying? So yeah. - But then you can- - Well, John's Kate and yeah. - I love it. - So yeah, we were talking about Kate. We gotta get to Randall's storyline. - Yeah.

Randall and Beth, R&B real estate. Wait, I do... We're even finished. I wanted to tell you the dog kiss. The dog kiss. That's where we were. The dog kiss. That's where we were. The trainer... So Kate and Toby get a dog about as quickly as Chrissy and Chris realize they're going to be working with a dog for the next however long. And we're like, okay. Nobody thought to check if...

you guys like them yeah yeah or if i or if like i used to be deathly allergic to cats like i used to be if i went to your house and you opened the front door i would know if you had a cat i'm like that standing on the front porch i'm like i'm so sorry i can't take it before yeah anyways we love it the dog's there he's very cute we're into it yeah trainer's like and if you want you know you can just put like a little if you have like a little bit of tuna fish or something you just

put it on your fingers or have a little and just the scent. - Wait, so did you eat a tuna sandwich? - No, 'cause I don't like tuna. And I was like, but I'll have a bite. And it's like, and his focus will be on you no matter what. And I was like, okay, great. So when I pick him up in the shot, I look at him and I think this dog is just gonna look at me 'cause it's a very well-trained dog. And I think he's just gonna be like looking at me and dog just comes in for a straight up Tanya.

And it was messy and wet. I saw him pull back a little bit. I was like, that's not Chris's thing. Because the camera was rolling. So I was like, well, it could be Toby's thing. And I'm like, but it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be. I decide.

at what Toby's things are. - What did you put on your face to make it a little- - I did have a little bit. - He had a bite. He had a bite too. - Oh, okay. - But yeah, halfway through, I'm like, "I'm not doing this." - Okay. - Because as soon as, if this becomes pop, if the director's like, "That was great," they're gonna be like, "Can we do that thing you did the first time? Can you do it again?" They'll be like, "Your thing." - Are you a doggy kiss person? - No. - You're not? - No. - Okay, see, it's funny 'cause like- - Are you a juju? - Yes, I'm a juju, but I'm not a- - My community thinks that you guys all love doggy kisses.

- I like a doggy, a lick on the nose. - Fine. - A lick on the nose is cool. - I don't need your tongue on my mouth, dog. - It is. - Oh, for sure. - I don't need your tongue on my mouth, dog. - The two most iconic examples, which still make me laugh, the most is "There's Something About Mary." - Oh yeah. - Right. That woman and that, I was like, I can't play that. I was like, I would've . - Yeah, cringe. - Yeah. - And then recently, Reynolds does it in "Deadpool."

with the ugliest dog in the world. - It's not a cutie. - No. - And it is, he goes all, it's like they are, it's intense. Have you not seen? - No. - Yeah, those are two ones. And that's what makes black people think that you guys all like it, but you don't. I'm so delighted to hear it. - Listen Sterling, we're not all like that. - We're not all alike. - First of all, how dare you? - I'm so sorry to treat you as a model. - First of all, how dare you? How dare you?

That's that storyline, right? And that's that storyline. R&B, because we're going to run out of time. Randall and Beth buy this building. And they talk about how excited they are to sort of...

bring respectability and, you know, dignity to this place so that people get a chance to live in a building that they can be proud of, right? And Beth is encouraging Randall, like, don't get ahead of yourself. She knows what she's doing. Yeah. Let's take your time. She knows how to do this. She knows exactly how to do this. And she talks about we have to bring things up to code when she's addressing all the people. And then Garrett Morris just starts, Lloyd is just cracking all kinds of jokes and everything, like,

And it talks about who's gonna fix something in my place and somebody's got a door that's not working. And Randall's like, "I can fix that." And Beth's looking at him like, "It's just a door. No big deal. My dad did this." And so everybody starts yelling out things that they need to fix. And he starts writing them down. Has Kevin already showed up at this point? Kevin hasn't showed up yet. When does he show up? He's about to come in right after that. And she looks at him like, "Look, man,

And he's like, "I know what you're about to say." And they have this whole conversation about how he knows that, you know, I took a bit off more than I can chew, but I'm gonna show you that I can do all this and I didn't do more than that. And she's like, "Well, if you already said it, then I'm gonna go ahead and get out of here." Right? And this is one of my favorite improvs that I saw 'cause he's, I said like, "All right," like four times in a row. - Yeah, you were like, "All right." - With his face in between. - "All right, all right."

- All right. - I was like, oh, he's still doing it. - That was funny. That was making me laugh. Kev comes, he's there. Kev is looking off of that thing from the past about trying to find something to do. - Stay busy. - Staying busy. - And to be helpful. - Wait a minute. Is he also, do we see for Kev, 'cause we can kind of do this at the same time. Is this when he's going through his list of people that he needs to make amends with? - Yes, to make amends too.

right so he's made amends with me he's made amends with mom there etc etc we don't see the whole list yet right but he just he comes to find his brother and he's like oh you're doing renovations like perfect i would love to be of assistance how can i help i got the door cool cool cool he goes to do don lewis's it's don't lose right it was her door fix it and she says there's a wall

that my husband put up and then he left. And so like, if I can knock this out, that would be great. He's like, you know, I'll knock out the wall. So Randall's like doing his repairs. There's the one thing, them walking down the hall. Oh, the slow motion gun show? The slow motion gun show, which is the funny part about it is Justin is much bigger than me.

Like, I'm a fit dude, and I own all my... Justin's an inch taller than I am. He's tall. The man is a big man. He's a big man, and he's got big arms. So I was like, let me show how Randall feels when he's with his brother, and he looks over at me like, bro, please, please talk about this.

So like Brown tries to bring all the sexy that he can to like tearing down a radiator and like plunging the toilet. Justin's in slow motion. And like versus Don Lewis just pulls up a seat and just starts watching. And then like other neighbors come in and start watching. It's the big event. It's hysterical, right?

So Randall thinks that he's fixed things. He's calling his wife. She's like, "I hate to tell you, I told you so. You know how Rome wasn't built in a day. Well, this building." And then Lloyd is like, "Randall!" Goes back in there. And we did have, I should say, there were roaches, right? I don't like roaches. - Who does? - Roaches are gross. - Not as well trained as the dog. - Yeah, not as well trained as the dog at all.

So then we have to evacuate the building. We had to tent this joint so we can get all these things out of here. But before we're able to get everybody out to the hotel, I got to find my brother 'cause he's still in there. I said, Kev, we got to go, man. They're about to tent the building. He's like, yeah, just give me another 20 minutes. I like to finish what I started. It gives me a sense of accomplishment, like get things done. And they start just having a nice little conversation about their dad.

and about what it was like for him. Kev is talking about, I remember dad doing similar things to sort of take his mind off of things, what have you. And I can't remember this conversation exactly. So if you remember tidbits, let me know. But the one thing that I made a note of is Randall was talking about how weird it is to imagine himself as an old man. Yeah. Right? Because like we've now...

reached a place in our lives where we've lived longer without him than we have with him. And I remember two things. Acutely, when I was about 21, 22, I was like, I've now lived half of my life without my dad. And like how odd that is. Then I remember turning 45, which is how old he was when he passed. And I was like, I knew when I was 10 that he was young.

And then when I was the age that he was, and I was like, he was young, young. - Young. - You know what I'm saying?

the synchronicity of, again, I think part of it is being in a writer's room and then knowing a little bit about my dad. Cause like there was just things that were so easy to drop into. Right. Like even in parenting, I was like, Oh, I got the first 10 years down. Yeah. I know exactly how to do that because he did it and it was perfect. Right. And now it's like, okay, now I'm the 13 year old. I'm still like figuring it out. You know what I'm saying? The nine year old is like, Oh, I still got another year. Yeah.

but it was it was a really lovely moment of these brothers bonding with each other and even kev saying like i think you should start to picture it like you're going to be a really cool old guy and he was talking about even when he so so later he goes to the hotel

his wife comes in, she's like, "You know I've done this before, right?" And he's like, "Yeah, I know." And if you had listened to me, I would have told you the first thing you gotta do is get something tinted because if you start doing reconstruction and there's a bunch of roaches, then you're gonna have a problem, right? He's like, "I know." And then she flips the earlier scene. She's like, "And then what you were gonna say, you're gonna apologize for this and you're gonna try to do something to be real charming and get out of it, et cetera, et cetera." And I was like, "It sounds way better when you say it than what I do."

And then they go, they have a little Randall Beth lovey-dovey movement. And then Garrett Morris Lloyd is like, get a room. He's like, what can I say, man? I love my wife. He's like, no, man, I need a room. He's like, right here. Let me go handle that real quick. But the writers do things that the audience may not. I don't even know if you clock it week to week.

But when you watch it together, they really string it together in such a lovely sort of way that that thing that he's talking about, that there's going to pay off to that. It's dumb. It's dumb. There's a sense memory in the writing that never leaves the characters. So they never get disjointed. The writer never forgets.

what has happened or has been said in recent, if not all of history. Yeah. They're really good about letting the characters carry that with them. Absolutely. Yeah, which is not easy to do. No. I'll say this because we had, not too long ago, we had Isaac and Elizabeth on the show, our showrunners and whatnot. I would talk to most of my artist friends and they would be like, you guys are really great. You guys are killing it.

My friend Terrell Alvin McCraney, who won Oscar for Moonlight, he's like, "The writing on your show is ridiculous." And I was like, "It really kind of is."

The attention to detail, like listening to Isaac talk about just little things, right? Because you address the universal through the specific. And these specific moments, even though you may not recognize that exact specific moment from your life, you recognize a very akin specific moment that makes you say like,

it unlocks like everything. One of the great kind of, in my opinion, injustices in our industry for anybody listening to the podcast now who may have watched the show who would never follow stuff like this, but in six seasons of television, the writing for this television

received one award. Well, this is true. There was one writer who got an award for a script. This is Vera Herbert, right? For The Trip, which is episode 109 when we went to the cabin or what have you. And she won...

Yeah, but she also won the Writers Guild. She won both of those. And the Writers Guild. Okay, she won the Writers Guild and she won the NAACP Image Awards, which is funny because... Which is why you call her... I call her Black Vera. Sterling, is she black? She's not black. Okay. She's not. It's fine, it's fine. But she has an NAACP Award. She does. She has one more than all the black writers that were on our show. What?

And she has two more awards than any other writer on the show. There you go. Which is, in my opinion, one of the greatest injustices of the running of this show. I would say so. To get a bit more granular about it,

You have the latitude to discuss a myriad of options or topics when you're on a streamer or on pay cable, right? Because there's no sort of ratings thing that you have to adhere to in the same sort of way. And there's not a timing issue. Okay, point number two. We had 42 minutes and 30 seconds. 42:30.

Every episode. Our scripts usually came in around 50, 52 pages, which made me, I was always gonna go, what they gonna cut out of this thing? Yeah. You know, because a page is a minute. Yeah. Right? And go, I don't know what's gonna get cut out of this one. You know what I'm saying? Everything's great. When you were directing, were you like, oh,

How are they gonna do it? Same. I was like, what do you lose? - I'm like, this is impossible. Why did you write it this long? - And then Dan does his alchemy and you're like, how did you do that? - He makes it happen. So to do 4230, to have to adhere to standards and practices and still come up with something that got the level of attention that we did critically as well as popularly,

There should have been something. Something. Agreed. That's all. We love you writers. Thank you very much for shepherding us through this whole thing. Yeah, the writers are the reason you love the show. Yeah. Should we take a break? Should we come back with our girl? Lena. Wave. Wave.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are back. We're very excited to be talking to our special guest, Miss Lena Waithe. What's going on, sis? Oh, man, we need a lot of studio. What a family. How are you? Yes. Okay. Thundersupply. I'm so good. I want to say this before we get into that because we were...

We try to get all the cool people that we possibly can on this dadgum show. So it was a small time, but it was a good time, right? I'm mad that I didn't get a chance to work with you personally. First and foremost, it was a bunch of dogs and my sister.

That being said, right? I remember coming up to Lena when Master of None was on. It was season two. Her episode was the Thanksgiving episode, right? Yes. Okay. Thanksgiving is a big deal in the Pearson household as well. I watched this episode. First of all, I love the show. Like the show was masterful, right? Her episode...

I remember coming up to you. I can't remember where we were, L-Dub. Party or something? It was a party or something. And I was like, and I said it politely, and I'll say it so that people understand. I was like, Negro, this was the best episode of television this year. And she's like, oh, thanks. I was like, no, no, no, no. Negro, you must understand this.

This is, I was like, I'm not playing around. Like this is legitimate, right? And I think because I have an aunt and a cousin who are LGBTQ in my family and I've seen how they had to deal with my grandmother and how there was love on the place of my grandmother, but also just sort of like, this is foreign to me. I can't understand this. So even though I love you and I want to be able to communicate to that, I'm still just sort of,

not understanding it and the way that Angela played it, the way that you wrote it, like it was so human and so full of all of the complexity that goes into like a parent wanting to accept a child that is different from her and just trying to figure that out. And the child having grace for the parent to be like in process, right? - Yes, absolutely. - So let me say this.

At the Emmys that year. Lena, we'll get to you in a second. We'll get to you in a second. This is what I do. He's me right now. So at the Emmys that year, I was like, you are going to win an Emmy. And when you do, I'm going to be the first person to stand up and clap. Yes. The Emmys were announcing for best writing for an episode of the show. Hers was obviously nominated. And they said her name, and I...

I could not have been happier if it was on camera too. They cut to you. Wait, did they really? You're in. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I watched it back. It was, it was, I could not have been happier.

- For anybody. - She had to make sure that you were the first one to stand up. - It was a joyous moment. And so I say all that to just say, thank you for your art. Thank you for now gracing us with your presence on this podcast and for being a part of our show. I love you. I love you. That's, I just wanted to say that.

I love you too. And let me tell you this, that's not the only reason why, but when he hit me to come pull up, it was an immediate yeah. Because I'll never forget that moment with you. And I got to give a shout out to Cindy Shupak, also a writer, amazing writer of Sex and the City. She too came up to me and said the same thing. She's like, you're going to win an Emmy for that episode. And you said it to me.

Donald Glover also cut to it. I was going up against two of his episodes for Atlanta and obsessed with the episodes in the category, particularly him, always chasing Donald. And he told me, he was like, you're going to get the writing joint. You're going to get the writing joint. He was the second person to stand up.

He was a writing one. I was like, you better get, you gonna get something. You gonna get something as well. Because you're amazing. You know, but I just, I just, obviously, I'll never forget that night. You know, you have these moments like that in your career. And it's just, you know, I'm forward to be a historic one, for me to be, you know, the first African-American woman to be nominated in that category. And obviously to take home a trophy with Aziz, my brother. Yes. Forever. You know, y'all know what it's like, you know, to have the TV family. Yes.

It's cliche, but these people really do become your family. Yes, ma'am. And it's forever. Yeah. And people see us. They look at us. And so thank you for all that you said about the episode. It's an episode that people... Thanksgiving's coming up. It's coming up. That's true. And I love that we're a part of people's holiday. Yeah. That people...

put the episode on and we have an episode of "The Chi" this season, season seven. Oh no, we did the last episode. We did an episode, we called it Thanksgiving. I'm sorry, season six. That was season six. We got season seven coming next year. But season six in "The Chi," there's an episode, a Thanksgiving episode. And I asked, can we call it Thanksgiving?

they allowed us to do that. So Thanksgiving is just a, you know, it's about family. But family don't always mean blood, you know, as you all know very well. Family is about those that show up for you and those that accept you. And so I'm really grateful that Thanksgiving, that episode could just mean something to people because

I never would have thought it would become what it did, but I was just grateful to be working with Melina Mitsoukas, who directed that episode and did a beautiful job. You know, Kim Whitley, who pulled up and played, you know, my aunt. And obviously Angela Bassett, who is someone I just, you know, I'm forever grateful for before I got to work with her. But now, and she is like a mother. We feel like mother-daughter because after that.

Come on. Forever bonded. It's happened. It's happened. Yeah. OK. You know. Y'all know. We know. We know. So OK, let's get into "This Is Us" real quick. I guess we got to. That's why I'm here. This is why you're here. When you got the invitation to come and join us on our playground, what did you know about the show at that point? Had you seen any of it? Was it an immediate yes? Or what's the role? How did it come to you? My homie was writing on the show. She thought of me for it.

because she was writing on it and um i did not know that yeah and i definitely knew about the show and and because i'm such a tv head like i you know i'm yeah i mean i did the documentary about mary tyler moore uh because you know

you know, studied Dick Van Dyke show. When I went to college, I studied writing and producing and television. So we had to watch Dick Van Dyke show. We had to watch, you know, all in a family and like really study these shows, but also coming up on like, you know, ER and the practice. And I came up during a really cool time, obviously getting a chance to watch West wing in real time and all that kind of stuff and mad men in real time. And, um, so as sopranos, I'm very blessed. And so when this is us came about, um,

I remember, you know, just being in the industry and sort of hearing about it and hearing about the concept and hearing about the cast and just sort of thinking, if that works...

what a miracle and what a joy it would be in terms of what we need to see on television. And it could have been hokey, but because of you all, and I think the chemistry and the lack of fear to go into really complicated places, people really, especially your father's story, I mean, people I think really

kind of were like moved in a way that they were with Grey's Anatomy, like network television that was giving us something that wasn't, you know, you just fold your laundry and let it play in the background. It's always exciting when something comes along that just grabs everybody. And so when I got the opportunity, I was like, yeah,

Yeah, I want to be a part of that because shows like Community and The Searchers would kind of come along. This Is Us was one of those shows where in the industry people were kind of whispering and sniffing around going, what's that about to be? And so, yeah, I was just honored to come on and do something like that.

in an episode. People will hit me. People are like, oh, I'm watching This Is Us. I was watching it. The fact that people still hit me about it is like, yeah, people are just re-watching the show, which is such a rarity. I always say a true success of art is something that people want to go back and revisit. Yeah. Sure. You know, so when you watch them shows, they're like, oh, I was watching the reruns of that. Oh, then that's a special show for you to go back and watch something you've already seen. We watch Law & Order SVU all the time. It's like, yeah, it don't matter. I've seen this episode 18 times, but I'm going to sit and watch it to the end. Yeah.

That's a special type of energy, you know? And so y'all have that. And so just truly congratulations for being a part of something that's timeless, but was also timely. - Thank you. - Thank you. Yeah, man. So truly, I was honored to be a part of it. As we rewatched the show, we've realized that our show is populated by legends. - Yeah. - And yourself included. When I rewatched this episode, I was like, "That's right.

Lena Waithe came and did an episode of our show. -Yeah. -That's ins-- that's-- -Insane. -Insane to me. Everything that was going on in your life at that moment. And my knowledge of you, you were like a legend out of the gate for me. Like, as soon as I saw you, I was like, "This is-- this is the--" And I know you just mentioned you studied writing production at Columbia, right? -Columbia College in Chicago. -That's right.

know and you've been running the shy for for seven seasons seven seasons and congrats and thank you at what point because this i don't know in my knowledge of you at what point did

Front, did acting, performing also become part of the game for you? You know what? It was never part of the plan. It was part of God's plan. Wasn't part of mine. I always wanted to be behind the scenes, you know. I wanted to write television. Obviously, A Different World had a huge impact on me. Home and Grab Productions.

I remember watching that show and just really, just knowing I really wanted to be a television writer. That's what A Different World and Cosby Show, that's what those shows really meant for me. I was like, I want to write TV. Never really had the performance, but I've always been a ham. I mean, my mom would call me a ham when I was a young kid. Um,

But I think that's because I watch so much television. You do the thing that you do is you're sort of watching TV and you repeat it back and you kind of say lines. Obviously with shows like Martin, I always tell Martin Lawrence all the time, man, I get my personality from you. Get to stepping. Get out of here. What is that? Watching him on Def Comedy Jam, just how he would vibe and stuff like that. I definitely picked up on things like that. And so when I went into...

Okay, so the acting thing, first of all, I got to give credit to Alison Jones, a phenomenal casting director who saw something I had written and asked to meet with me. And so I went in and sat with her. And she's iconic. She cast freaks and geeks, bridesmaids. She's responsible for so many careers. And so I went to her, I was like, why am I meeting with a casting director? I'm like, I'm not casting anything.

But she was like, she just wanted to meet you. And so I went in there and saw these posters of these iconic shows that she cast. And I sat down with her. And we just had a conversation. We just talked. And I was talking about many different TV shows that I liked. And maybe I mentioned Maud or something and Rhoda and all this kind of stuff. And she was sort of, I think, a little like, what? OK. And then she was like, have you ever thought about acting? And I was like, no, I have not. And she was like, well, would you mind if I brought you in for some stuff? And I was like, sure. OK.

And she did. She brought me in for some things. I booked like one couple lines on one of my favorite shows of all time called The Comeback. Yeah. That's the Kudrow joint? Yes. Yeah, okay. Lisa Kudrow, Michael Patrick King. Right. I watched that first season and became obsessed.

I was like, what is this? Who is this? Who is Valerie Cherish? What is this? And so I was one of those people that had the DVD and listened to the commentary. And then because people were so obsessed, 10 years later, they did a season two. That's right. That's right. And so when I got a call, they were like, you want to go in for the comeback? I said, do I want to go in for the comeback? Yes, of course. What?

The comeback of the comeback. So I go in and it's just taped. And then she's like, okay, Michael Patrick King's directing this episode. He'll look at it. I was like, oh, Michael Patrick King who wrote Sex and the City and is an icon? She was like, yeah, he's directing and he'll see if he'll look at the tape and see. He picked me. I come in, I play a journalist that's giving value shares a hard time. Yeah. And I even asked him if I could kind of adjust the line. He was like, yeah, yeah, that sounds better. I said, okay. Now,

Now he and I are parking spots are next to each other. That's right. Let's go full circle. But yeah, that was the beginning. And so, and then, and then I got a call about like this untitled Z's and Zari project. And they really want to go in. And I went and sat down with Aziz and Alan Yang and just talk to him. Cause Aziz was like, I don't want to just audition people. He's like, I want to meet people first. Yeah. And if they cool, you know, it's very British of him. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I went to his house and,

met with him and it felt like a writer meeting because I was used to TV writer meetings. Sure. And I was just myself. I had just fallen in love. I was like telling that story and just talking shit. And then I got like, okay, he wants you to audition. And I was like, okay. So I go in and I read with him. Yeah. And it was just...

It was just so natural. It was as if we'd been, like, talking forever. Yeah. Wow. And they were laughing and reacting. And I was like, is that how it's supposed to go? And then I was just like, you know, I left. And...

I got called in to test and then he was like, "Do you want to come and do this show in New York and play my friend?" The show didn't even have a title. I was just like, "Yeah, man." Because I was obsessed with Parks and Rec. I loved him. Of course. And it was really like, and Michael Schur was a producer on it, but it was almost like Michael Schur said, "Okay, I'm going to let these kids go do their own thing."

And, yeah, I just went to New York and started doing that. And then when it came out and people started watching it, that was really the beginning. And so that's really how the acting career sort of began. Tell them, if you will, real quick, tell them what the first movie that you ever did was. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Watch this. Watch this. So the first movie, look. Sterling. Okay. My first movie ever. Uh-huh.

is because of Steven Spielberg. Steven Spielberg cast me in "Ready Player One." - That's her first fucking movie. - Oh, I'm sorry. - So then you stopped doing movies after that? - Exactly. - You just quit. - You just quit? - 'Cause it doesn't get any better than that? - Anyways, Lena, it's been nice talking to you. Thanks for coming on. No, no, no, you're great. Everything you do is great. Now we get it.

Cool, cool, cool. She also, me and Lena were up for a voiceover campaign for AT&T. And I was there like, yeah, you made it to the final two, et cetera. And I was like, it's going to be a cash cow. I'm going to be making money off this joint forever. Yeah, yeah. It goes to LW. They just felt more relatable. I was like, cow!

Well, that's true. No, that's because you sold us a distinguished gentleman. You have to be an Oscar nominee. Come on. Yeah.

You know, you can't be doing AT&T commercials. You out here is different. Can't relate to that. Okay? Wait, we should say something about the show. You working with Chrissy and the dogs. And that's it. Just tell us about the day. It's like, because we got to work together, every time me and Chrissy see each other, you would feel like we went to camp together. It's just like... I love that. It was just such a fun day. And just...

it was a very emotional scene, obviously, as people, you know, know. Yeah. And I just love seeing her out in the world and just giving her hugs and being like, hey, what's up? Good to see you. Are you a dog person? Yeah. I have got two pups. I got two dogs. You do? Okay. I do. Caleb and Gigi. I felt it in the scene. I was like, she loves dogs. Yeah, yeah. I know.

They're not here with me right now. They're in Los Angeles. I'm in London. We miss them. But we know people that we get the pictures sent and video sent to us when we're away. That's the kind of party it is because you miss the pups when you're gone. But you got to travel. You don't want to schlep them everywhere all the time. And I had a dog, I think, at the time where I was about to get a dog. So it was just exciting to be on set with like

- Dogs and I was, what more could I ask for? This is awesome. - Okay, this was like one of the best conversations we could have. We talked a little bit about this, but it was really about just the fact that we got this woman on the show who we love and adore and appreciate. - Somehow we finagled getting Lena Waithe on our show. - L-Dub, is there anything you wanna say about what's going on in your world right now? What people, what's up and coming? What you want people to look out for? Talk to us real quick. - Okay.

My people would kill me if I didn't plug my own podcast. You know, I don't even like calling it a podcast. Come on. Because technically, I don't even think of it as a podcast, but it is technically a podcast. It's called Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe. I love it. Yes. Yes.

And we've dropped two episodes so far. But basically the concept is really conversations, is dialogue. This has been a lovely dialogue and conversation, which I love. But I, you know, people were trying to get me to do it. And I was like, well, what's the intention? You know, what are we doing? And they were like, well, you can talk to who you want to talk to. And I was like, okay, why don't I talk to Black women who have legacies that have impacted mine? Sure.

And they were like, okay, cool. And so we got six episodes so far. We want to continue to do them, so stay tuned. But the first episode was with Sherrily Ralph. Yes.

who was an icon, amazing, the original Dream Girl, our original Dina. Um, and we sat down and had a lovely conversation. That episode is out right now. It's such a wonderful listen. I had such a wonderful time talking to her. Um, and, uh, the second episode that came out was with Gina Prince-Bythewood. And her name may not be super familiar to some, but she's behind some of your favorite movies, like Love and Basketball. Oh, yeah. She did Woman King. Yeah. Um,

She did The Old Guard. That was on Netflix with Charlize Theron. She's a phenomenal writer, director, Secret Life of Bees, which was the first thing I worked on. But I used to be her assistant back in the day. I was her assistant for like two years. No way. Yes. You are a part of her legacy. Boom. Yo, that's all I could ever want.

is to be a part of her legacy. Um, and so I, so that episode is out and then coming up next is Mara Brock Akil. Okay. Uh, who created Girlfriends and, uh, The Game and Being Mary Jane. Yes. I was, uh, an assistant on Girlfriends in his last season. Were you really? Um, so I got to, and Mara's the reason I got, she got me that job working for Gina. She's like, you need an assistant, you should get Lena. And that's how that journey began. Um,

and then, uh, after Mara, we got Jada Pinkett Smith. Okay. To sit down. You turned the red table around. Okay.

Look, look, you know, her, her legacy had a huge impact on me growing up, watching menace to society. Obviously she was on a different world, a low down, dirty shame, you know, seeing her in matrix. She did a voice in Madagascar as a hippo. She's had such a wonderful career. And so we talked about that. And then Jennifer Lewis helped, helped raise me. She was like my mother before she was, you know, you know, and she,

We talk about her glorious career as well, which films like "What's Love Gotta Do With It?" And she was also on a different world as Dean Dorothy Dandridge Davenport. You're on my list. - Alliteration. - And obviously returning a really wonderful voice performance in "Princess and the Frog."

And so, and then, and last but not least, Debbie Allen. - Wow. - Good gracious. - Who is my North Star and someone who has become my- - She's a lot of people's North Star. - Oh, everybody, everybody. She gets mentioned in all these interviews. So she's last, she's the finale as she should be.

And so basically I was also a big fan of a show called Inside the Actor's Studio. It used to come on Bravo. And I learned a lot watching that show because even though I, it's funny because I did not have aspirations of being an actor, but because I had aspirations of being a writer, I was really curious to hear from actors what they were looking for in scripts. Okay.

And so that way, oftentimes, you know, James Lipton would often ask some of the greats, like, what are you looking for when you're trying to pick a project? So my, you know, I'm like 16, 17 watching it, thinking like, okay, I want to write something that a great actor would want to do or want to play. That's a big reason why I always tell people like Daniel Kaluuya cast himself in Queen of Slim. He read the script and emailed me and said, I am slim. I am slim. Really? And I was like,

Okay. And it really, like, the fact that Daniel was like, he read it before Melina Masoukas. He was like, I want to be in this movie. And I was like, all right, okay. I did not see you as Slim, but now I can't stop thinking about you as Slim. I remember I called Melina. I was like, yo, Daniel Kaluuya hit me and said he's Slim. And she was like, I don't,

I don't think, I don't know. I was like, just meet with them. And she did. And it's on the trifecta. So that came from me watching Inside the Actor's Studio and just wanting to, and also Reggie Rock Bythewood saying, make sure you write characters that actors can't wait to play.

Even if it's like a small two-liner or something like that. Make an actor like, I don't want to do that two lines. So anyway, I say this to say, I was watching this at the actor's studio and when James Lipton never picked a successor, people would always say, what happens when you die? He's like, so does the show. And I would always feel depressed about that because I was like, we need somebody to sit and talk to

just performers and actors that have done really great things and get a sense of it. And so I don't talk to these people about their personal lives, any of that. I'm asking Shirley Roth, what was, what was the audition process like for Dreamgirls? Okay. You know, asking Jada Pinkett Smith, how much of Peaches was on the page and how much of it was you? Yeah. You know, and so, and asking Jennifer Lewis, how do you play

the mother of Tina Turner in a way that you do because it's such a complicated woman. Especially when you're like 70, they're like the same age. Exactly too. Yeah, they were very close in age. But you know, and I'm just asking Jennifer like, like,

Like, how do you, how do you, how do you even step into that role? Like, how do you do that? You're, you know, but also then like in poetic justice, she plays Tupac's mom and she's only in it for like a scene, but she's so phenomenal. She's so amazing. And we got, I got to ask like, what was like working with Tupac? Like, what was that? And so, and a lot of times, like even Jada, like it's all career stuff. It's all like it,

Talking about Jason's lyric, talking about the inkwell, you know? And so it was just, that's what these conversations are. And I think people may not know what to expect coming into them because we're not just talking about, oh, talking about where'd you get inspired? When did you want to be an actor? No, we really are talking about process and we're talking about where they were in their lives when they were doing certain things.

and how that impacted their performances. So I hope people check out Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe. I think it's really fantastic. And also, I've written my first play, and I'm just going to, I think, step into the theater space. What's the play, homie? What's the play? I'm not going to tell you the title of it, but it's a three-hander. Okay. And it's about, you know, just love. And it's a bit of a love triangle, but it's...

It's something that I'm really trying to play with form and I'm going to be in it. So it's my first time stepping on a telephone with my actions. I mean, like I am so scared and freaked out, but theater actors are a different kind of situation. And so I've been in film, I've been in TV. In a lot of ways. And I love both, but I've never been on a stage and had to say everything. And so I'm just, but that's the pool I'm jumping into next is theater. You're going to love it. You are a force.

It's going to be such a rush. Truly, in every way. I grew up on your music. Don't get me going. Oh, gosh. I remember when music videos was a thing and we was watching your music videos. Oh, Lena, no. Oh, my gosh. Okay? And I appreciate you for being an ally. I saw you out there campaigning and trying to help get this thing going. You're very much appreciated on the front lines. Always. Always, always. We do what we can. We got to make sure we show love for folks that are showing up.

So it's much appreciated because we can't get ahead without linking arms with each other. You've seen the March on Washington. Go back and look at that footage. It's all of us. And that's what this is us to me represented. That's what it continues to represent. It's that we really are family. Yeah. We're in this together. I think that's... You are...

- Just phenomenal. - Of course. - Man, I could like talk to you all day. Just listen to you guys. This is, thank you for your time. - Thank you, Lena. - Thank you for your art. - Thank you for asking me to come on. - It's the truth. - Thank you. - It's the truth. Enjoy London. Enjoy life. - I will. I can't wait for the play and the podcast. - Yeah, listen, if there's a part for you, boy, holla at me. - Yeah, certainly just say, "I am play." - I am play. - I am play. - Come back. - I am play. What's the play called?

I'll let you know this call. We'll get it together. But yeah, man, we did a reading in Baltimore. We're going to do a reading in January. So stay tuned. Stay tuned. We will. We love you. In the vein of Actors Studio, what is your favorite curse word? There you go. Shit. Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, Lena Waithe. Lena Waithe, we love you, sister. Take care. I love y'all.

That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us.