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Ladies and gentlemen, we're back. That was us, your host, Mandy Moore, Christopher Sullivan, myself, Sterling Brown. And we have a special guest in the house today. Ladies and gentlemen, Susan Kalinji-Watson. What up, you? What up, y'all? How you doing? I'm great.
- This is awesome, y'all. - Listen, we're lucky to have her right now. We wanna like, first of all, tell folks why you in LA right now. Sue lives in New York full time, but she's in LA. What you working on? What you doing? What you got coming? - I am basically stalking you 'cause I just stay across the street while you shoot your series at Paramount. I'm just waiting for you to come out the gate. - What's your show? - Sterling!
- Are you ready? - Me! - I'm so worried! - Who's there? - I'm so worried, man!
- I'm doing "The Residence." - Doing "The Residence." - For Netflix, yeah. - On Netflix. - Netflix and Shondaland. - That's right, that's right. You wanna tell them a little bit about your part and what the show is about? - Sure. - Or is there secrets you have to keep? - No, there's no secrets. Thank God, I gotta keep them all secrets. - We know a little something about keeping secrets. - Yes, we do very much. No, this show is, I think it's out in the open, but there is a big secret. - Okay. - Because it's a "Who Has Done This?" - Oh. - The old "Who has done this?" - "Who has done this?" - Not a "Who done it?" - No, no, no. - "Who has done this?" - "Who has done this?"
AHHHHHHHHH
Shout out to Andre Brower, who I think originated that line. But it's, yeah, it's a murder mystery, whodunit, set in the White House among the resident staff of the White House. Okay. So, you know, it's not the- Not the political arm. Exactly. It's not the West Wing. Right. We would be the basement. Okay. The mezzanine. It's an upstairs, downstairs sort of thing? It is kind of an upstairs. Like Downton feeling to it? It's a bit of, I think so.
I think so. You know, I think about that a bit because so much of, you know, what Downton was about had so much of the people who worked there. But this is all about them. And a murder happens among them. And everybody's a suspect. Wow. Is law enforcement come into it or you guys sort of figuring it out? Yes, law enforcement comes into it in the form of Uzo Aduba.
Okay. Heavy hitters. Yeah. If you have any theme music, just lay it in there. I just want to let y'all know what to edit. Uzo Aduba. Yeah, there we go. Got it. You happy? You feeling good? You're pleased with the work? It's fun. It's so fun. It's so good. I mean, I'm really... It feels quite like a blessing and very fortunate to go from one really stellar cast into another cast that is so talented and like...
there's these big scenes that kind of remind me of like when we would all be at the end of season six and there was like 18 of us in the room while Brandi's in the back room. - Just resting. - Yeah, just resting. - Sleeping, napping. - And we just got off of two weeks of scenes like that where it was like 18 of us, 18 to 20 of us in a room. And I got to just watch people.
You know, when you just get to be audience. Yeah. I'm cheering my ass off in my head. Because I was like, people, it's really such an amazing thing, I think, when people get
a role that not only fits them, but they elevated into this thing that becomes this other thing that you didn't know was even on the page. And then the page is already so good. So I'm just, I get, I love those moments where I can sit and kind of look around and see what everybody else is doing. So in that, I know that it's something very special. All right, this is a good transition because you want to talk about somebody taking something and lifting it off the page and elevating it into something that we didn't even know it could be.
- Talk about you. - Oh, that's not bad. - Talking about you. - Talking about you. - All about you. - How, you've told this story a few times, just for everybody, like how did the audition, how did this job of Beth Pearson come into your lap? - Okay, okay. But you don't like when I tell this story 'cause I keep saying I don't like to read. - No, tell the story. - You don't like me to say I don't like to read. - Be real, do you? - I'll be 100, okay. So the story happened.
I guess it was end of 2015, right? - Yeah. - And we were all auditioning for this. And I had auditioned for Danai's play. Danai Gurira, as many people know, is also a playwright. - "Eclipse"?
- No, it was for "Familiar." - "Familiar," okay. - And it was going off Broadway. But I had worked with Andre, a good friend of ours, Andre Holland, and he and I, we all went to NYU, and so we were in a room and we were rehearsed, like he was working with me on this audition for Deneye's play.
And, you know, I just had it down and he was like, oh, you got this. You're going to get this. And that night or something, another audition came in for an untitled Dan Fogelman. And it was two scenes. And and I don't.
I did not know, or maybe it wasn't attached. You know, it depends on who you ask the story, that there was a script attached. I just saw the two scenes. And it's pilot season kind of, so you know, you get- So things kind of touch a turkey. I didn't get a script. I'm a working actor in New York. You didn't get a script. I only got my two scenes. Okay. Because I'm going to say the same thing. So, you know, working actor in New York is one of the auditions that comes in. Yeah. I'm very focused on familiar and trying to get this. Yes. So I go in and I think-
I think "Familia" was first, or maybe it was the pilot was first. - Also, let us say that Danai is one of your best friends too. Like you guys are homies. - Yes, right. - And so the excitement of working with your homie. - Yes, that was very strong, right? So I think I may have gone into "This Is Us" first. I go into a back room at Telsey, like just a tiny little back room with somebody who's just running a camera. You know what I mean? And just knock out the scene and go on through.
- People can't imagine how unromantic it is. - There was negative romance. - Yeah, yeah. - Saddle. Zero stars on Yelp. No romance.
walk into an empty room and a person's like, yeah, I don't know. - Yeah. - And they're just reading like- - A little to the left. - Yeah, right. And then you slate it, you know what I'm saying? And that was it. And I did it and left and then I'm off to familiar, you know what I'm saying? And it's like, all right, let me get, because I don't wanna embarrass my friend now, you know what I mean? My friend in the room and then this person is the director, it's everybody. It was a panel of people, it's like seven people. 'Cause it's like the final final. They just called me into the final final.
And I was like, okay, I'm good, I got this. I walk into the room. There is a particular part in the scene where scripted, the character removes her drawers. - Okay. - You know? - Yeah. - Sure. - I thought. - Yes, go on.
I'm curious. Slow down. Well, why not include the prop of the underwear? Since I have this down, it's going to flow like I'm taking off my drawers. You're doing a dress? Are we in a dress? I'm in a dress. Okay, okay, okay. And somehow I rig it to where I'm not actually taking off. But you know, I'm making it. So when the audition's going well, that will really work.
- Oh no, oh God, Sarah. - For some reason, I don't know. - I don't know. - But it was like my tongue swelled in my mouth. The words just weren't coming out. - It wasn't flowing. - It did not flow. Whoever was reading with me, it was like there was just not a connection. I'm in there and I can feel the scene going to the floor. And I go to pull out my panties.
And I pull the panties out, which is something that's already dead. Like, this is now dead. So now I just see this girl throwing panties around. I gotta finish. I gotta finish strong. No, no, this was the plan. This was the plan. You do what you wrote. Yeah. I pull my drawers out, throw them on the floor. Y'all got any notes? It was a mic drop moment? It was the end of the scene? Is that exactly what you did? You said, y'all got any notes?
- Y'all, when I tell y'all there are moments in your life that you just wish did not happen. - Yeah, and the worst part, 'cause I'm picturing it. Worst part is not that you threw them out. The worst part is you had to go pick them up.
- It's that moment. - You're so right. - It's that moment. They're just like, let me just grab these. - Thank you for your time. - Thank you for your time. - Bend down, pick up the underwear. - I'll just take this. - In my mind. - Put it back on. - Put my drawers. - In my mind, they were right by the director's foot. And I'm just like, could you just take your foot off my,
- It was like your last hit, you're like, do you know? - You know, as actors, you know, you think, oh man, okay, so maybe it's one of those moments where it's not as bad as I thought. - Yeah, sure. - You know, and people were just quiet because they were engaged. - They were listening. - Yeah. - They were bowled over. - They were, riveted is what I was hoping. - And then that caused you to- - And no, no, I called her. And that's what I knew, 'cause I was like, ain't nobody even calling. And you know, when she hit me with the girl, you know how.
And I was like, "I promise you, I don't know what happened." And this is what she said. This is the wisdom that I got. She was like, "You know what? It's probably a blessing. I bet God is going to give you a pilot or something. And if you would have left my show for a pilot, I'd be mad." And I said, "I promise you this. Hold on. I have a beep. Get on the other line. Click over." So they have a pin in you for this untitled Dan Fogelman.
project thing. And I said, okay, all right, cool, cool, cool. I got back over with her and I was like, where did I go wrong? Then I like, I don't understand. Like, how did the audition get? And I continued the conversation while I got there. Because it's pilot season and just never felt like it's going to happen. Right. Did you know who Dan Fogelman was at the time?
- 'Cause I didn't. - I didn't. I think I didn't at that time, but then once you get like a pinstuff, you start like looking and I'm like crazy stupid. - Let me back up one thing. At this point in time in your career, how many pilots had you booked? - That's a good question. I was good for like getting on a show after that process.
So I was the person who was like, I would like get like a guest star and it would turn into a recurrent or something like that. So I don't remember a pilot before that one. - You didn't have a history of spending your time holding your breath for pilots. - Exactly. Like waiting to see if they got picked. Especially out of New York. New York is a harder place to book them out.
So, okay, they put a pin in you that turns into you coming out to L.A. Was there any other interstep before you came out to L.A.? There was. They wanted to do a callback with John and Glenn. Okay. And so I did the callback with them in New York. And then when I got the call for...
for the final callbacks, they said, "Look, there's an option for you to either go out to LA tomorrow or let them use your tape from that callback with them." And I said, "Man, well, yeah, let me think about it, man. I don't know." They're like, "Well, what did you think about the pilot?" I was like, "Yeah, I haven't read the pilot." They're like, "You haven't read the pilot?"
I'm gonna read the pilot right now. So I was like, well, I don't think somebody sent it to me in my email, the way my email came up. So anyway, they sent me the pilot. I go home. - I don't have an attachment. - I go home and I read the pilot and my friend was with me and I promise you, I read and I read. And every time I turned the page, I was like, oh, you know, it was that. And by the time I closed it, I just went to my phone. I was like, I'm going to LA.
And I picked up the phone and I was like, "I'll go. You could put me." They were like, "Okay, we can get you on like a 6:00 AM." I was like, "I'm going." And that's how, I mean, there was no question in my mind. No question in my mind. - And when you came out to LA for the final callback, was that a reading with Sterling? - It was. SK was in the room. It was Sterling. It was Dan. It was John and Glenn. - And then, so there's three people there. There's a girl, Angel Parker, who was in OJ with me.
Sue was there. Tracy Toms, who's from New York, who graduated from Juilliard, same year I graduated from NYU. And then I think Marcia Stephanie decided just to use her tape. Who's fantastic. Right? Yeah. And so...
this is like this is the part where the part of the story that's big awesome was it was like i knew it was sue all along or whatnot but the part is i know all these sisters man like it's like when you get to this place in your career where you're privileged enough or whatnot and you know like people are going to come in it's like i know everybody
And so they'd ask me like, who, I was like, man, I'm not taking a job away from a sister. Like that's the last thing that you can put on your boy. But like, it was so much fun to read in the room. And when they, cause I think John and Glenn, even more than Dan, like they're like, I think it's Sue. And I was like, I think you're right. I think you're right. And I was, and was so,
When we got to set and we got a chance to hang out because we knew each other from school. Yeah, I was going to say, you guys have a history. We know each other from school, but we're in different classes. So you spend most of your time with your classmates while you're at school. I'd seen your work and I'd come back actually. I remember I was still living in New York. I remember you guys were doing...
Cat on a hot tin roof. And I couldn't see the play, so I came to rehearsal one day. So I was like, Sue's a wonderful, incredible actor. And knew her to be a beautiful human being.
But when we got on set and just got a chance to talk and vibe, I was like, I came home one day and I told you this. I said, Rye, told my wife, I said, I love Susan Kelechi Watson. Doesn't take anything that I have away from you because you're my wife and I love you and we're going to be together. You know, I just wanted to let you know also that I have room in my heart to love this woman too. And she was like, okay.
No problems, no qualms at all whatsoever. And it's like, I've been approached so many times and I'm curious from your perspective, where people will talk about Jack and Rebecca, but they will talk about R&B like you guys. - Oh yeah. - That was something to watch. I'm curious, what kind of things do you hear about it?
You know, I hear the same. It's like people really saw themselves in our relationship, which was like such a wonderful thing to hear. Because I remember us when we first started being in the trailer and sort of speaking to what we wanted this to be for people. How, you know, how...
what resonated for us when we saw a young black couple on screen growing up and what we wanted to resonate for people now. - Yeah, and what were those conversations?
She always talked about Martin and Gina. I did because there was this thing about that I hadn't seen that. And there was something about the unconditionalness of it that was so... It's something that we all knew, but we just had never seen expressed on any medium like that in that way. And there's something about when you say those two names together for those who...
grew up on that, they know exactly what you're talking about. Like Kanye has it in a song, feeling like Katrina with no FEMA, you see how devastating that is. Like Martin with no Gina is right beneath that because people who know that know what the devastation of that would be. And so I thought if we can achieve that in people's hearts and in a new way, whatever that is for us,
then I feel very sure that we did the job that we came to do. And I don't know if you remember the first two or three episodes of the show, but it happens, like, that happens almost instantly. Mm. Mm. More "That Was Us" after this short break.
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So this is interesting, because I remember talking to you about the pilot and it's like, well, Beth didn't have a whole lot to do in the pilot or what have you.
And then like episode two, you have this conversation with William about your man and what he's gone through. So I'm curious for you because you kind of take a leap of faith trusting that like there's gonna be something for me to eat in the show, like after you do the pilot or whatnot. So what was it like for you to go from the pilot to that 102 and have that meet? - You know, I guess I'm allowed to say this now because I remember- - We'll see, I guess we'll find out. - Yeah, we'll see. - We'll find out, right?
Now. But I remember Isaac, one of the showrunners, saying that it was only after they saw the monologue that they were like, oh, okay, so there's this Beth character now. Do you know what I mean? Sure. I don't know that...
I want to say it was something I feel like we kind of discovered together on the show. Maybe it was a bit of co-creation. So there was that leap of faith, right? It's something you're coloring in lines and some of the lines aren't fully formed yet. But in some ways it's dope because you're like, all right, well then I get to kind of
you know, chime in on who this person is. And I get to like help fill out that body and that form and all of that. And so I, I think one brick laid on top of another, laid on top of another, laid on top of another. And it became this co-created thing. I spoke to that a little bit because we did,
we were rewatching episode 105 and I remember the writers, and maybe even Dan came up to us, like after we took our trip to the drugstore to get the birth test and he was like, "Oh, like I can do comedy with these guys." And we were like, "Yeah, man, we like to do some funny reflex every once in a while." Because I think in his mind, like he always saw us as like the stable couple, like that everybody's sort of,
We're the nucleus that everybody sort of satellites around or what have you. But we also are prone to our own shenanigans as well because we were just watching 106. And it's, we have, 106 is career day. With the song. At the piano. At the piano. If you had a farm. Yeah. It's good to know the future price of corn. Take it up. It's like, it's like as Randall was trying to channel Maxwell,
You know, he's trying to figure out the head voice. Anyway, but we have this scene where I'm trying to explain to you and I'm looking for my index cards about what it is. And you're like, oh, all I can think about is pizza, right? And then I said, you're making fun of me. And you're like, I'm not making fun of you, but you're doing it with the smile. I was like, why are you smiling? She's like, I don't know. I'm smiling. And like, I throw you on the bed and we just start being silly. Like, it was sort of like,
The beginning of like, for me, like when I saw it, I was like, oh, we are, we're dumb and we are so in love that like whatever happens, like she's going to allow me to be stupid. And this is what I realized in the course of the show in terms of performance that I almost single-handedly owe to you. And I mean, this is sincere. I was able to do really dumb stuff and probably overdo things in a way that I wouldn't have been able to do it if you wouldn't have just been like,
You done yet? Yeah. Yeah. She gave you this space. It's absolutely true. It's a balance, right? Yeah. It's a balance. And I thank you for that. It's true.
can say so many things about you, but I guess... And also you're welcome for that. You're welcome. Thank you. And you're welcome. You're welcome. No, but I think there was this balance. There was a trust. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I think...
the very fortunate thing with the couples on our show is there was like a trust amongst the actors as well. So I felt like we were reading from the same handbook. We've trained at the same place. We know, and it's like, all right, so I know SK, if I go here, you go here. You know what I mean? And I know you're not gonna leave me hanging. There's no intention of that. And it was never about I shine,
I shot, it was always like, what is the story? How do we bring this story? How much truth can we tell in this five minute scene? You know, and that's what we were very much committed to. And that was the fun of it to me. You know, it was like, oh, this can go anywhere. And then, so that led to like, oh, this couple can go anywhere. Oh, this couple is committed to each other. This couple is honest. This couple is like, they're not,
it is taken for granted that they have chosen to be together. And we'll see how they work that out. That's not me and Sunshine of Roses every day, but we'll see how they survive that. And so that's why when we almost didn't make it, people was threatening us.
- Stop watching the show, yeah, live. - So for those who haven't got to season three. - Am I jumping? - No, no, you're fine. You're totally fine because we're just talking about you. For those who haven't gotten to season three, take a break. - Oh, it's in season three, okay. - So we get to season three and a lot of our through line over that time is sort of like, Randall has these political aspirations. Beth is rediscovering what it is that she wants to do with her life with regards to dance, et cetera. And they're happening at the same time.
And if he pursues this thing, which is like he has to drive to Philadelphia and we're still living in New Jersey at the time. Like how does that impact what she wants to do in terms of moving forward with her own personal aspirations that she has put on hold such a long time? And so there's a riff that occurs in R&B. I can remember my wife saying to me, I have Lucius and Cookie can figure it out.
that I know Randall and Beth better get their stuff together. - Right, Michelle Bethany. I can't. Well. - But what was it like during that season or whatnot? Because I think we both cherished it a lot because we didn't want people to think that we were just,
- It was easy. - Yeah, that's right. - It was like Sunday morning and you just wake up and like, "Hey girl, hey dude." - Yeah, it's always good. - You know what I'm saying? Like you have to go through some stuff in order for like what really would last to be valued. - Yeah. - Right? So I think we were both eager to see what would happen. - Yeah, excited about it. - Yeah. Excited about it and not worried about who's gonna take what side. - Right. - You know, I knew people's gonna be on mine and... - That was gonna be hard. - But it was interesting because, okay.
so just fast forward a little bit people did there was a moment where i needed you to come to this
to meet up with these other council members. - Oh, and you left the phone call? - And I left the message on the phone, right? And then you showed up at the thing and I was like, "Hey, listen, I left you a message on your phone. Not a big deal, just ignore it." And then she's like, "Oh, you mean the one where you cursed me out for not showing up?" And I was like, "Oh, that's not gonna go well."
It's not going to go well. And I don't know if it was the same episode or later where I said, hey, look, I know you want to do some stuff. But like, if you could just put a pin in that for now. And as soon as as soon as I read the line on the page, I was like, I'm telling this woman to put a pin in it. And I was like, I was like, I was like, I said to myself, I said, Brown, how charming can you be to try to keep people alive? Are you telling this?
Let me tell you, let me tell you, it was, but the thing about it that I loved, I think
you know, was the fact that we went for it. Like we both went for it for our size. It wasn't, you know, I was no longer the woman that you were describing before where it was like, you could be all over the place and I was going to be this. It was like, okay, no, no, no. Yeah. Fend for yourself. You know what I mean? And I was going to fend for myself. And that was meaty and really interesting. And people really did not know if we would make it. Yeah.
they really didn't know if we, we always knew, right? - Yeah, we knew. - We knew, okay. - We knew. I mean, Dan had stated from the beginning, like this couple will be together, but we needed to make people feel- - Yeah, we needed to question it. - You know what I'm saying? - Exactly. - Absolutely. - We knew somebody was gonna have to get divorced. - Sorry.
Sorry, man. That made me so sad. If we're, listen. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. If we're exploring every, never mind. Exploring every aspect of relationships somebody in this show has got to. Statistically, sure. Statistically. But what was so smart about, because I did not like that you guys got divorced at first, but what's smart about it
story-wise, is that you guys sort of met in this place of brokenness. And in real life, when people kind of bond in broken places and then somebody starts to heal, inevitably that bond doesn't work. So when I saw like your character growing and shifting and changing, it made sense when you go back, I was like, "Oh, he's not in that place." And she's sort of still struggling with some of those issues. And he really has come up, but that doesn't mean he wants to leave her.
but it just means that that place of connection. - Yeah, that deal that they made. - That deal they made is the contract has been broken. You know what I'm saying? - That's a good point. - So that's how smart they were with the writing. - Come on now. - It was smart. - Who has two fingers? - And points like this. - Who has two hands? - Who has two hands? - This girl. Classic.
Obviously this show has changed all of our lives in countless ways, but how did the show early on, say in like the first season, change the way you moved through the world? Like what was people's response to you in the wild? Well, you guys know, it was, you guys know, it was like...
We were doing this for so long in a bubble. I remember us saying like, oh, we're in this cocoon, this bubble. We're just doing this thing that we really love. And, you know, it'll be on TV one day. And then it gets on TV. And I remember the first night, like after it aired, I went to something at EPLP or Melrose over there. And I remember crossing the street and this dude rolled up when his lady was in the passenger seat and
And they were in a convertible. And he was like, yo, from This Is Us, right? I love that. The next day. And I said, oh, things don't change. You know what I mean? It was like it was overnight to me, you know, that things had changed. And then going and I remember as the years of the show went by, there was a point. It's not like this overnight.
Now because I think now it's it's a bit even like even doubt. Yeah a bit more but I remember coming out of my Brownsons living in in Brooklyn and I remember I got as far as just down the steps and it started and I thought oh You know and then I was like, all right and
It's this balance of like, all right, Sue, if people are doing that, that means they know the work and they appreciate the work. So you can't get like super cynical or like, oh, now I can't. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's like, yeah, all right.
This is what comes. You know? And there's that. And of course, it's, you know, people want pictures and selfies or people run up to you crying, you know? Or people want to grab you or they want to, you know, they want to hug you. Yeah. And you know what I'm saying? I do. Because there has been intimacy exchanged. A lot. We weren't there. Right. Physically. When it was happening. Right. But people want to...
because in your mind you're their best friend. Yeah. You know? Your family. Your family. There's something about you that doesn't want to take that from them but you're also like, I don't know. Right. So when somebody's like, Sue! Now I'm automatically like, if you call me Sue, I'm like, okay, who? That's an easier turn than Beth. Happened to me two days ago. I was like, Chris! And I was like, hey!
and I faked like I knew him because he called me Chris. Right. And he's like, I know you from that show. And I was like, oh. I don't know you. Have a good day. Good day, sir. Let me ask this question because you just brought this up and I can open this to everybody. We'll start with Sue. What is your picture of?
protocol/philosophy when requested? Is there a time and place in which you will? Is there a time and place in which you won't? Is it vary by case like this? - Sterling, just ask. She'll take a picture with you. - No. - You guys are old friends. - I'm just curious because it's something that we all sort of have to figure out. What's your protocol? - If you wanna get a selfie-- - Stop!
- After, okay. - I'm in the middle of something. - Okay, so here, I try not to do bathrooms. - Oh yes, good call. - I love that you put dry in there. - Okay. - I will.
But I try not to. Right, I try not to. If you've washed your hands. Right. Try not to do bathrooms. Try not to do bathrooms. I don't do, oh, what's, like when I'm eating with family. Okay. Yeah, if I'm in the middle of a meal. Yeah. What is the response when they come with the approach? Well, they come up and they say, oh my God. I hate to bother you. I hate to bother you, especially while you're eating. Yeah. Like, I would never do this. Well, you're going to be very disappointed to find out that I am eating.
And bother. If you look slightly over this way. You know, and your family is there, and men, like church. Okay.
And then like, that's it though. I'm very like easygoing about the picture taking. - Okay. - Yeah. - I get it because you know what? I look at people, I know it's gonna sound corny, whatever. But like, I see my mom asking for autographs whenever we come out of like the theater. She loves to get all her, she has like August Wilson's autographs. She has like, you know what I mean? She gets everybody. I see my mom, I see my nephew when I take him to the game and he sees a sports player. What do you call them? Athletes.
- A sports player. - A sports player. - He sees a sports player. - A ball mover. - And wants a selfie with a sports player. And I don't want them to ever call you anything else again. - Who's that sports player? Who do you think? - I can't remember. LeBron.
What's the name of that sports player, baby? - Old sports player. - That's what I see when people come. And so this means something to people. I can't unsee that. - You are their LeBron. - I want everybody to answer this one. And I'm gonna chime in on this a little bit. Mandy Moore, do you have a pro-bucket? - You pull baby powder out of your back pocket.
Do you have a protocol when it comes to the photo? I feel aligned with Sue. They're like dinner with family. Like, yeah, you kind of, it's a case by case situation because sometimes you're like, I'm in the middle of like checking in at the airport and things are a little hairy. I was actually just about to ask, what do you do early morning at the airport? You know, oh, airport ones. Can I add that? Yeah, because sometimes you're just off a flight and you're looking like, who shot John? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who shot John? And this is the shot y'all want? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You like, you sure?
- I mean, I'm fine, but look at you. You're in your pajamas, sir. - I mean, I had a hot towel. - So case by case, but like not at the airport, they're trying not to do the bathroom, not with the family when you're eating. - Yeah, but otherwise it's all fair game, absolutely. - So? - Only bathrooms. Only bathrooms. - Only stalls in the back. - Only stalls in bathrooms. If you wanna find me,
You see me in public, you wait until we can have some privacy. So nobody gets the wrong idea. Listen, there's good light. The worst light. Good acoustics. The worst light. Maybe for you, not for an Irishman.
- If you don't edit that out, this is gonna be, this was us. Said the only place is the bathroom. I said, oh, I'm not gonna be an accessory to this conversation. - I genuinely had a man at a public pool try to follow, like I was going in there and he was like, hey, can I get a photo? And I'm in my bathing suit with like my clothes. And I turned to him, I said, let me just get dressed first.
And it like took him a second and he was like, yeah, yes, yes, of course. So sorry. So sorry. They're shooting their shot. It's like, this is my opportunity. Let me take advantage of what I can. And it means a lot. I've gotten to a place where I have a whole thing with the kids where I don't take pictures when I'm with my kids because they deserve to be the center of attention. And it's a weird thing for them to have to navigate being like, why is everybody always trying to be around my dad type of thing?
Most of the other ones are case by case scenarios, but what I have learned, I was like, listen, can't do a picture right now, but I do appreciate the fandom. Can I give you a hug? And usually people are pretty cool with that. - That's nice. - Because the thing about the picture is if it doesn't come out the way they want it the first time, they'll be like, oh, sorry, it's a little, can I get an, and they're like, can we move into this light? And then it's like- - It's a photo shoot. - They don't know how to use the camera. - And they don't know, they think it's just their turn, but like that happens a lot.
whatever. So I'm never discourteous in the whole process because I understand that. I try to be gracious, but I also recognize that I need to be present to whatever it was that I was doing that they didn't know that I was doing. For sure. You know what I'm saying? But it's, you know, it's never like, and I feel this way about us because we were like this, I think, as just people. It's never lost on us that like,
people want this picture and they want to spend the moment. - What a privilege it is to be in that position. - You know what I'm saying? Because I still remember the Sue auditioning for "Familiar." You know what I'm saying? When my daughter's on the floor. So it's not like, and it's, you know, so there, but you do have to draw some boundary. - Sure. - You know what I mean? For your life and everything like that. Yeah. - More "That Was Us" after these words from our sponsors.
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I'm asking other questions. You guys. No, this is fantastic. I feel like I'm just an observer in the best way. I mean, you were the ambassador for the East Coast for us because you were traveling back and forth. Oh, a thousand. So like, I don't know, for me, the first couple of seasons felt
like such a, like one giant season, 'cause we would roll into press for the first season. And by the time we were done with that, we were starting the second and like, I never went anywhere. Like I never went outside of Los Angeles, but I remember the first time going outside of LA and traveling somewhere. - Going overseas, going overseas. When I was in London, when I was in South Africa.
- Huge. - South Africa. - Oh yeah. I get stopped in South Africa all the time. - South Africa. - I mean, so it's big. - I will say, 'cause I would go home to visit family in St. Louis and I was like, oh, this hit different in the Midwest. Like it was like LA would be something like, you know, people would say, "Hey, Randall." And I go, "Oh yeah." And then I go home and like, I could not go to the Galleria.
I was like, I can't actually shop. And that's the first time in my life that I'd ever experienced that. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's incredible. It was weird. Do you remember when we were shooting downtown, Sue? Yeah. This dude comes up to us. I think we were together. And he goes, hey, I just want to let you guys know that your show saved my life.
or it saved my life and my brother's life or something. - Yes, actually I do. - And he's just like, can I get a hug or whatnot? Or he didn't even, I don't even know if he wanted a hug. He just wanted to let us know that the show had saved his brother's life. And we were like, right on man. And like those sorts of things, while it like at the moment felt sort of strange, it's like,
The show hit people. It did. I feel like I can share this. I hope I can share this. Who knows? Go for it. The actor who played Tommy on Martin, a friend of his, I knew through a friend. Mm-hmm.
And he got in touch with me, I think via Twitter or something. And then I think we ended up talking on the phone and unfortunately through some, some mishap surgery, I can't remember quite what happened, but Tommy was like dying, you know? And, and his friend told me, he asked him, what do you want to watch? What can I put on for you? What do you want? Like in these moments or whatever. And he said, put on, "This Is Us."
And that was like in the early, that was like the first or second season. And that's when I was like, oh my goodness. What is this? And we better be some real good guardians over this because this is like special. Stuck a nerve. It really did. A lot of the storylines, these personal storylines, I don't know if you all had the same thing where
I think I remember talking about this with several people on set where it was like, have the writers been in my living room? Like I just had this argument. I just had this conversation. I just had that. And then it kind of became prophetic. Like my life started unfolding as the show was unfolding with kids and like all of these things. And for a while I thought it was spooky. And then I just am starting to realize, oh, it's universal. Yeah.
And look how many storylines there were. Look how many of us, look how many different storylines they could follow. So it was like, I always felt like people, if you had a favorite or not, it was like, there's somebody on this show who's living out your life. Out of the 18 of us, somebody on here is doing what you're doing. A quick, just quick follow up on that was like, was there anything in your, do you do it? We're going to ask the same question at the same time. Ready? One, two, three.
Three. Was there anything about your character that resonated your life? Okay.
It was the same question. Yes. And I was also going to ask, like, and were you ever in the writer's room? Did you help, like, inform some of the direction that, like, Beth went in because you were able to talk to the writers and influence them a little bit? Yeah. I think I remember, I think the one thing that got, no, maybe two. The one or two things that got in there, I remember texting Kay or Yegum. Mm-hmm.
And I sat in the writer's room one day and when I went home, I remember texting her and being like, "Oh, and just so you know, I used to dance if you guys ever want to use that."
Like, that was like season one. You know what I mean? Like, and then it found its way in there. So, but it was literally from a text. And I promise you, it was one sentence. Just so you know, I used to dance with you guys ever. Same, same. Oh, well, that was from that text. And then I thought she was a little bohemian.
I thought, oh, I liked, I just felt like she was a little bohemian at heart. There was something about her then. And that worked its way gradually into it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I was gonna ask if you guys remembered the rumor about Beth being about to die or Beth was gonna die? - What? - Do y'all ever remember that? - No. - That was me, I started that. - Okay. - I started all of them. - I was just trying to get, just trying to get attention. - That was an internet rumor that like, is like she's dead and you don't remember that? - Oh no, I do.
- Well, because as we flashed forward, we would start to see different people. - And we didn't see Beth for a while. - Oh, is that what it was? - That's what it was. - Because you showed up to the house alone. - I was like the first person to show up, yes.
- Oh, okay. - That's where it came from. - I was like, I had not heard that rumor. But that makes sense. - As soon as Jack died, the audience the whole time was like, are they dead? Are they also dead? - Who's dead, who's dead? - When you lose Ned Stark, it's like- - It is, everybody's up for grabs. - 'Cause the same thing happened with Chrissy when I showed up at the house alone. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - The same thing. - Oh, okay, so they thought Chrissy was dead, okay. - Here's a question about that, 'cause you said a little bit bohemian and what have you. I'm wondering,
This is a hair sort of thing and decisions that you chose with hair, which I think were absolutely humongous. And I don't know what kind of feedback you got from it, but from the outside looking in, I was like, this is almost like revolutionary.
in a really powerful way. Can you speak to this at all? - Yeah, you know, it's really interesting 'cause you think about it now and it's so common to see a black woman on TV wearing a hair. - It's a little more, but I don't think it's on the number one TV show six years in a row, you have a sister front and center who is natural. - They were not doing that before then. - No.
And what I really appreciated was that when I started the show, I had just a year or two before cut all the perm out, relaxed out of my hair. And so I had this natural hair and I had a little bit of this curly bun going on when we did the audition. And I remember because I changed my hair up and got like these really like
what Jamaicans would call like Natty looking braids that just look kind of undone, but they're cool. They look very Bohemian. And I remember texting, emailing my team and saying, well, I have my hair like this now. You think I should like send them a picture or do something to let them know? And they were like, you might want to take them out or put your hair back the way it was or let them know. And I remember thinking to myself,
you know let me just show up and see what they say yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i was like you never know and you know if i don't if somebody says something then i say something but if nobody you know yeah so i remember walking into the read-through and they were like three exacts from nbc and they saw me like oh oh your hair looks really nice and that was it and i remember for me
every light said go after that. It just, it was never, every light to me in my head was like, go, just keep going, you know? And so I,
made it, the commitment was to like, what is a real black woman in these United States of America? What does that look like that we haven't seen? So what often, what aspects of that haven't we seen that we all know about, but maybe, you know, the world at large doesn't know about. And one of the things that is such a big deal is black women's hair.
And so I was like, I'm just gonna be real about whatever that is. And so we change it up a lot, especially when it's natural. You just do that. And we do go to work and these corporate jobs and if we don't, we should be able to. And so it was like, I'm just gonna do that and like this little quiet corner of this Beth world and just let that be. But in my mind,
That's all it was. It was like, I'm just going to be authentic to that. Yeah. I had no clue what the effect, that impact would have. Were those conversations you were having with hair and makeup? No. Just like, let's try this. And for the first season, I did my own hair for the most part because we didn't have anyone on set yet who was able to. We had a few conversations about this in the trailer. Yes.
No one was able to do natural hair, to my hair and keep it healthy and do all the things. Like I was like, so I went and I don't know how this stuff goes. Right. But I just always learn. Well, you ask the people who run everything. You know what I mean? You know, so I put the email and all the top executives. I was like, Dan, Jess, Michael. Right. I said, you know, I just want to be able to walk. Essentially, I want to be able to walk into a trail. And if my hair is wet, you
You know what I mean? Like, I want to be able to walk in like anybody else can walk in and get my hair done from start to finish and not feel like I had to stay up an extra hour and a half at night to set it to come to work. And so we did that. And to their absolute credit, it was like,
and you will have it. You know what I mean? There was not a blink of an eye. Michael Rice was the dopest. He was like, I will keep bringing in folks into you. - Head of the Hair Department. - Head of hair. - That's awesome. - He was like, I will keep bringing in folks. He had people get their union card on the show so that they could do my hair on that show. And then I will never forget when I saw,
I saw an anchor woman on CNN or something with braids in their hair, you know? And I'd never seen that before. And I was like, oh, look at what, now, you know, other people were doing this on, other people were doing this by this point on TV. But like, when I started to see that, I was like, all right, you know, the power of like what,
visibility and like showing who we are can do and what it normalizes and what it gives people the freedom to do. And, you know, you have people getting kicked out of school and off of sports teams because of their hair. You have little girls being suspended and, you know, teachers going in and cutting off their hair in, you know, while they're at school, you know, and they have to make laws to allow people to allow people to wear their hair the way it grows out of their head naturally. You have to create a law around it.
I'm going to do my little thing, my little part in making sure we understand that it's just what it is. You know what I mean? And so that is part of the privilege of getting to do what we do. It's like also reminding ourselves, like, what else can we take?
into this with us that liberates, you know what I mean? - It is also a testimony to the environment in which we work that you could talk to Dan and Jess and Michael and be heard. - Yeah, and here's the thing. Dan started to tell me, he was like,
I just knew because I was going hard with it at one point. I was like, okay, now we're going to have a break going this way, but on this side is Afro puff. You know what I mean? It was a lot. And I remember Dan saying, and somebody was saying to me, oh, I remember at one point,
somebody on my team at one point was like, when you go on red carpets, try to wear your hair all the same because people don't know you yet and they want to be able to like recognize you. Oh my goodness. That's a common thing. I never did it. And guess what? People recognize me for that. You know what I mean? And so it's like, you got to go with like what you know and like what's in, sort of what's in your heart and like what comes to you authentically. But I remember Dan said to me,
one time when he's editing, he's like, you know, Sue, every time in the editing room, I'm always like, I can't wait to see what Sue's hair looks like this week. And I thought, how amazing is it to have, you know, El Jefe? You know what I'm saying? Like, go like, yo, I'm just down with whatever you're doing. You know, it's all good. It's not getting in
in our way in any way, you know? - Absolutely. - And that's the kind of show we had, man. - That's the kind of show we had. - People were listening. They wanted to know what your true life experience was so that we could bring it to this. - Yes, ma'am. - Right. - Gang. - Wow.
- This is Susan Kaletschie-Watson. - We ended on a hair note. - In the house. Is there another note that you wanna end on? Is there something that you wanna say? - I feel like that's a great- - I think I'm happy. - We ended on shea butter and coconut oil. - Come on, let's do it. - I mean, we're gonna have to have you back and talk about the specificity of a few episodes. So please- - For sure.
Please indulge us and come back so we can... I will happily come back. ...regale the world with how much we love you and are obsessed with your work. And really, you are just such a beacon of the show and...
yeah I could hear you guys have a conversation and pipe in for like the rest of my life it's just what an honor you guys this is awesome honoring the show like this isn't this amazing it's pretty cool yeah it's pretty cool and we thank you for being here I am so happy to be here I love you as always I love you you want to say that I don't hide anything ladies and gentlemen that was us that was us that was us
That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.