Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing Season 1, Episode 6: Career Days. Kate interviews for a new job. Randall doubts his career path. Kevin and Olivia's relationship moves in a different direction.
- Rebecca and Jack are conflicted on what to do when Randall tests as a gifted child. - Summer is all about you and your active lifestyle. It's the perfect time to embrace outdoor runs, walks, hikes, strength classes, and any activity that gets you moving.
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Welcome back. What's up, everybody? Hello, fam. How are we all doing today? Doing good today. Yeah. Been traveling, been eating a little too well. You look good, though. But I feel fed. Oh, that's a good combo. You know what I mean? That's a good combo. We're talking 106 today? 106. What came up for people as we got into this episode? I mean, there's a lot of different things. I mean, I think the biggest surprise we were talking about was the beginning of the permeability of the theme song. Yes. Yes.
Yeah. Do, do, do, do. Yeah. It just, I remember playing it obviously in the episode, but connecting it to later in the episode, Sterling, to Randall's performance at career day. Yeah, we'll talk about it. We'll get there. We might have to have a whole special episode just about Randall's performance at career day.
- The theme written by Sid Khosla. - Sid Khosla, yeah. - Who we will have on to have an in-depth discussion. - We might. - Hopefully hear some music. - I have a little anecdote about Sid, but let's, so thematically, we'll start, let's start with Papa Pearson himself, Jack.
who was in construction is feeling very sort of like edified by the work that he's doing, but not bringing in enough bread to support his family. And so he recognized at a certain point against his desires, he's like, I gotta get a desk job in order to make the money necessary to provide for my family. So it's the beginning of mustachioed
Milo Ventimiglia. That's true. With like the trim hair in the back because he's the wild child. Can't have a beard when you're a serious businessman. And it's funny because, oh, Milo's so good because you see as soon as he steps into this place, he's like a fish out of water. He's like, I don't belong here. I don't feel comfortable here, but I'm going to make myself comfortable here so I can do what I need to do for my family. Yeah.
And that's a big theme throughout the episode, I guess. Yeah. Fish out of water. Yeah. Feeling uncomfortable in a certain position. And reckoning with what one needs to do in order, the obligations we must feel sometimes in order to provide for our family. Yeah. Now, Randall feels that. Randall does feel that for sure. Get to Randall again. Because also as we see him at his cubicle.
He does at a certain point, he still holds on to his dreams. - Sure. - 'Cause you see like the beginning of the designs of Big Three Homes. - Yeah. - This will come back to the people who don't know. - Comes back around as everything does. - Everything does in "This Is Us", right? So I wanna segue into like that sacrifice. We're all, I believe, blessed to do something that we actually love for living. Are there any sacrifices made on behalf of your families
to allow you to be where you are in life today. Amanda Moore, let me say this. You've been doing this for a long time. You've been Amanda Lee Moore since you were born. But like... Indeed. But like...
Oh, fame and sort of like notoriety came like 12, 15, 15. So yes, there were very much sacrifices made by my mom and dad that I speak about often when people are like, how are you still around? You're 40. You've been doing this for 25 years. And I full credit goes to my parents. I mean, not only for, for the foundation they laid in, I think what a great job they did with my brothers and myself and just
just being supportive and loving and whatnot. But the sacrifices they made as a kid, I was the only person in my family that wanted to go into the arts and be creative. And I would scour the newspaper in Orlando where I grew up and look, there was like an audition hotline that you could call on Fridays and here for the upcoming, like local theater auditions, like looking for kids between 12 and 15 for gypsy. Like, and,
And I would sort of write down everything and go to my mom and dad, like, would this be possible that you could drive me to this audition? And then if I were to get cast in one of those shows, them schlepping me to every rehearsal and performance and whatnot. What was the first show you were cast in? Yeah. I was cast in South Pacific. I was one of the little kids in South Pacific. Yes.
And then I went on and did a bunch of shows that weren't real shows, those kinds of shows. Musical reviews. Musical reviews. Okay. Original musicals. Yeah, yeah. But then I think just...
like entering into a professional world, like taking that leap of faith and my parents taking it with me of like, wow, my 15 year old child is going to sign a record deal and like be thrust into this adult world. The sacrifices they had to make, like physically our family was apart. I always had mom or dad with me all the time. So- Were you in LA? I was in LA. I was in New York. And I had a younger brother who was still, who's 18 months younger than me, who was in school in Florida. So like-
The sacrifice, I was aware of it at that age too. Like, wow, mom and dad are really doing so much for me to pursue this dream I had. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I very much like understand this dilemma. Mr. Sullivan, what about you? I mean, absolutely. I mean, the prospect of...
raising kids in the early 80s, you know, I think my mother gave up a career to raise me and my brother, which is a sacrifice that you don't quite, maybe I don't quite realize the value of until I have my own kids. Sure, sure. Like until now, close to now. But the thing that I'm always kind of amazed at when I look back, and my mom and dad will say, yeah, we never doubted, but it's like to watch your child be like,
And I'm going to be an actor. It's got to just be like, okay. Yeah. So many reservations. Yeah. You do great in these plays. Yeah. You're very good in these plays, in high school plays. That's what you want to study in college. Okay, great. And that's how much a year for that? Okay. And you're going to study it. Okay, good.
And we'll pay for that. That'll be all right. And one of the things I do realize, like coming out into the world after college to try and be an actor, quote unquote. Yeah. Like the true gift of being financially unencumbered by college debt or college loans. Yeah, bro. Like is kind of astounding to me. Like I was able to be real confident and real brash and take big risks because I wasn't paying off college.
$100,000 over the next 30 years. - Sure, sure. - And it kind of put me in a position where I was like, yeah, I'm not gonna get a job. I'm gonna be an actor. I didn't realize until I was much older that like that bravado, that audacity only really comes from that type of freedom. - Side question, have you ever had, since you've left college,
How many other odd jobs have you had to do besides being an actor? The only odd job I took on and off because it was easy to find and it paid cash, no taxes, was being a bouncer at bars. Wow. That sounds right. That sounds right, Big Saul. Well, yeah, Big Saul, right. But also, like, also, don't hit me. Like, I am the worst bouncer in the history of bouncers. Like, could...
like conflict, especially getting in between two alphas who are guys. Hey, hey,
Keep your distance. I am not good at it. And I ended up at several bro bars, like Irish pubs on a pier somewhere that were mostly staffed by MMA fighters. You look the part, though. So they would just put me at the door. They're like, why don't you just check IDs? We'll deal with what goes on in here. And if we kick someone out, you do the, and stay out.
Oh my God. Yes. And so I would do those for as long as I needed, you know, because I started in Chicago. So my rent, living by myself. You told me this was a really low number. Had a great studio apartment. Tell everybody. 600 bucks a month. What?
In a nice neighborhood. So I could do that in two weekends. Yeah. You know, at a bar. Right. And so I'd pick it up when I needed to, but mostly just acting. Darling? Close to the storyline. I can sort of merge my life back into the story a little bit here. So my dad passed away when I was almost 11. I was 10. And it was interesting because my mom was a public school teacher in my school district.
And it was a very good school district, the Ledoux School District in St. Louis, Missouri. But she recognized for her how young black men were sort of being tracked towards the lowest common denominator. And no one was being encouraged to sort of
pursue the fullness of whatever innate gifts they may have had, right? So my mom, once I finished fifth grade in elementary school, she made a decision because my father passed away in fifth grade and my father did not want me to go to the school St. Louis Country Day. And my mom was like, well, it's you and me now, kid. And this is where you're going to school. Now, similar to Jack Pearson,
St. Louis Country Day is about as lily white as you could. That was the resistance that dad had. It was that. It was all boys school too. And my dad being just sort of like old fashioned, I don't know about this. I went to an all boys school. Did you really? All boys high school, yeah. Okay. Okay. So we both did. And then my school actually wound up going co-ed. And it's now Mary Institute Country Day School. But-
I was a good student, right? And this reminded me as I was watching the episode and I was watching Rebecca look at the report cards and I was seeing the report cards and I saw like the B's and C's. I had like rewound and froze. And she was looking at Randall's report card and it said like, B, B, C, C, C, C, C. And I was like, this don't seem like Randall. And then I was like, oh, it's not. Like it took me a second. And my mom, that sort of decision to send me to that school was,
was a huge one in that there was really no stigma associated with being intelligent, where oftentimes at public schools, if you were black and smart, you could be labeled as trying to act white. Yeah. And so there was like, there was like a little bit of disparagement in terms of like pursuing the fullness of whatever intellectual capacity that you might have, right?
A sport was required for every semester for like three quarters out of the year or whatnot. So no one was a jock because everybody was a jock. No one was a nerd because everybody was a nerd. And then rehearsal for plays was after athletic practice. So you didn't have to choose between being a theater geek and a jock or a nerd because they were all set. We had the exact same setup. It was just set up so that you were at school from 9 a.m.
- To 11. - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? Like all day, but because of that, you got a chance to be exposed to all these different things. I really got a chance to be like, oh, I do like this thing that if I had gone to a different school, I'd be like, I ain't doing that acting thing, man. That's for dot, dot, dot people who don't look like me. So I want to shout out Arlene Brown for making that decision
and recognizing that it sort of opened the world up for me in a way that I may not have explored on my own if she had not said, "Go." - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? - Yeah. - That was my mom. My mom dropped me at my first audition.
for a play. - Yeah. - And I was like, I don't know. She's like, "I'll be back in an hour." - Audition, don't, I don't care. I'll be back in an hour. - Really? - It was the same little push. - That's pretty cool, man. - That is cool. - That's pretty cool. Okay, so we'll take it back into the story now. We'll go into Randall's storyline.
Now, it's funny because Dan would talk about, Dan went to UPenn and one of his very good friends at UPenn was trading commodities based upon weather patterns, et cetera. He's like, my friend would explain to me what he does. Every time I'd be like, I don't know what the blank you're talking about, but it sounds funny.
So he's like, I'm going to give this job to Randall because it's like, it sounds really important and I can't explain it to anybody. And so that's what Randall's going to be doing, right? Amazing. And I can remember, wait, the first note, because he's trying to talk to people about, as his daughter was trying to get somebody else to come to career day besides him. Yeah. He's like, Uncle Kevin,
come he has a cool job grandpa uncle kevin he's like no i'm coming and he says trading commodity futures based on long-term weather patterns is not boring even the sentence i don't know and later when he's trying to explain it to beth and he says oh god what does he say he says something to the effect of um
It's like licking a piece of pizza so that no one will eat it later. And she's like, she's like, now I'm thinking about pizza. Definitely not your job. It is. It was such a wonderful moment because I think it's sort of the, the beginning of the establishing that like,
Randall is an intellectual. I think we sort of touched on it on episodes before, but like this sort of like hammered home. Yeah, cemented it for sure. Randall is that dude. And he always has been. Yeah. And watching parents grapple with having a child who is gifted, who already feels different and not,
wanting to treat all of their children the same. You love all of your children the same. But as you were speaking to earlier, just like recognizing everyone has different needs. Everyone is different. Everyone's going to have different challenges. And so trying to approach it with like a one size fits all, you know, love is not...
It's not the way. I mean, it is a noble sort of idea, but in practice, you kind of have to cater to each child's individual needs, right? And you start to see that with Kevin. Like he says later in the episode, you kind of have to be real strategic about carving out time with dad so they would build the model planes together. So he winds up...
having the most delightful conversation with his wife about, you know, maybe I should have been a musician. So sincere. So heartfelt. Maybe...
In the beginning of the episode, he comes home to find William playing the piano for his children and singing. And hearing Ron sing and play the piano was such a delight. I like closed my eyes and just sort of reveled in that moment. But again, I think this is, you know, to see Randall sort of absorbing his biological father and had he grown up with that influence before.
sort of reconciling with now would I have had? Sure. Like is that as a musical gene something in me that like has remained unengaged? Dormant. Yes, exactly. And had I had that influence around me, would it be something that was like a greater part of my life? And maybe it would have taken me in a bit of a different direction. So I think that's ultimately obviously what leads to that conversation between Randall and Max. Absolutely. But also he did kind of grow up with a musical influence. Yeah.
Yeah. Going back to that conversation of sacrifice. Yeah. Like it's something that, that was in Rebecca. It was in Rebecca, but it was tabled obviously when family entered the equation. Sure. We'll be right back with more. That was us.
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Start Ritual or add Hiya Sarah to your subscription today. That's ritual.com slash TWU for 25% off. So Randall gets the brand idea. He goes to career day. He has to follow this badass fire woman. Named Mandy. Did you catch that? Was her name Mandy too? Yeah, it was Mandy.
following this badass fire woman and he wants to make it exciting and engaging for the kids what he does for a living so he decides to write a song this moment was talked about for I didn't know dad could play the piano the rest of the series it really was dad cannot every every time we would just like chime in with like do you remember the song do you remember Randall's song in the first season and then Ron would go oh sweet Jesus laughing
Oh, so, okay, side note. Go to Sid's house. Sid Colza, who's our musical director on the show, is like, yeah, I've come up with, like, some lyrics or what have you. Or Dan's got the lyrics and here's the music. And he wanted to teach me just how to play the theme song because I'm sure you picked it up pretty quick. I was like, I don't play the piano. I don't either. Okay. No. So he showed me, and you pick it up pretty quick. It's a few notes, what have you. And I was like, all right, how do we have fun with this? Because Randall is not...
good at these things, but he is very earnest and desiring to be good. Like that's the thing about Randall. He wants to be the best at everything. - Sure. - Right? So this is one moment. As an actor, it was so much fun. I'll say that because we had a full auditorium of people
And I got to go up onto the piano and the lyrics are so utterly ridiculous. Ridiculous. I mean, I can't even. But also. Yes. The lyrics are the only thing that helped me understand what this man does. Like the lyrics to the song, I'm like, oh, okay. That makes sense. But also I was so trying to follow the melody. I was like, what's going on?
Listen, Mandy, I remember when we did it. Because at one point, he does it a couple of times. He goes, okay, everybody, join in. He goes, everybody. Like he's Coldplay. Mandy is like, where's the chorus, bro? I don't know what to jump in on. Yeah, totally.
What part? If you own a farm. But also, I did not realize until re-watching this episode that it is the melody of the theme song. It is the melody of the theme song of the show. So kudos to you for sort of blurring the lines a little bit. And also, for those who don't know, Sterling is an excellent singer. And when an excellent singer has to sing badly, it's hard. It is hard. That is very kind. I appreciate that. You guys are excellent. And also an excellent actor who's like, well, this is my chance to sing. I don't want to.
- I'm gonna sing on this, and I have to sing badly? Like fighting that ego that's like, come on, just sing good. - You know what's funny? - Just hit that last note. - Because you guys are so great, and Chrissy is so great, there was no pressure on me to be great. I was like, we have that lane filled. Let me see if I can do something about it.
It was so funny. It's genius. I laughed out loud both times re-watching it. Because I re-watched the episode and then I was like, this morning, I'm like, I'm going to re-watch that scene again. Thank you. And laughed out loud again. But also, can I go back to earlier in the episode with the lit? When you were like, it's going to be lit. And everyone's like, that wasn't the right way to use that, was it? And they're all like, no. It was just sort of like establishing the adorkability. Yes. That is right. Adorkability is perfect. Hashtag adorkability. So.
He does the song. He knows it doesn't go over well. He comes home, he has that whole thing about, you know how in a movie they got the montage when somebody's like bad at something and then you see them go through the whole thing and they come out the other end and they're great. He's like, I think I might have missed the montage.
Becca Brunstetter, Dan Foote, whoever wrote all these. Priceless gems. This episode is Becca Brunstetter. It's Becca Brunstetter, and she killed it, absolutely. And you see, William says, maybe if you want to play the piano, then maybe I can help you out some. And he's so eager. But it's like the middle of the night. He's like, well, not right now. He's like, oh, no, no. Definitely not right now. Definitely not right now. And he ends the episode...
And it's such a lovely way, but because this ties back to Jack too. So let's go back because there's sort of like those two things are very much connected in the course of this episode because you guys go to take a look at the school that his teacher recommends for gifted students or what have you. Jack is dead set against it. And you're a little bit more like, I don't know, man, like maybe. So you just drive to the school and say, like, I wanted to see it. Yeah. Right. He talks about, look, man, the kid already feels like an outsider. We're going to send him to this school.
He's going to be the only sort of chocolate drop in the midst of this delightful pudding that is, what is it, Hanes? Yeah, Hanes Academy. And so you have this moment of like, you know, maybe this is something we need to do for him. And then shout out to Ryan Michelle Bathé.
My wife, Jack goes to talk to Yvette. And I love the way that Ryan actually did this because like, yeah, they want to send him to some school where he's going to be like the only black kid there. It's going to be like, and you hear like Yvette go like, oh, okay, that's why you're coming to me. Like you want the black person seal of approval for your bad parenting. And she's like, what are you talking about? And she's like, look, man, your kid is special.
And if there's an opportunity for him to develop his gifts to the furthest that it can be developed, and you're not going to allow him that, like, what's the thinking there? Yeah. Right? And I get that. Like, there are moments that I have as a parent with two black boys and whatnot and wanting them to have exposure to their culture, right? Mm-hmm.
and wanting them to make the most of themselves. And when those two things fit hand in hand, great. And sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. But ultimately, I'm looking for the best way to develop my child. Point blank, period. It's going to be a combination of those things. So you see this wonderful...
It's called career day. And so Randall goes to work with Jack and he's like, I'm trying to figure out what the, how long a piece of two by four need here. And like one inch is worth this much. And Randall's like, you know, 24, 20, you know, 23 and a half, whatever he says. He's like, yeah, yeah, that's right. But he's like, come do this other one. Then Randall catches on. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know that one. This scene was like visceral for me. Same, same. Because there was a flash of like old school parenting in Jack. Yeah. Where he got- A little hot. Like hot and physical with him. Like, no, tell me that 1980s. Yeah. Tell me the answer. Yeah. Like it wasn't like, come over here. No, no, it's fine. No gentle parenting here. Tell me what you're feeling. No. He was like-
Do the math. Yeah. I was like, okay. It was almost as if he wanted Randall to prove to him and to himself, like you are smart and you are worthy of this. Because Rebecca even says earlier in the episode, like we know how smart he is. Like why? This isn't surprising that he's gifted. It's like now we have the evidence in front of us and we can't ignore it. Yeah. Yeah.
But that scene, really. It was gorgeous. Beautiful between Milo and Lonnie. It was beautiful. Again, I think it was the first time really seeing the two of those characters together and so connected. And when he says, I love you more than a human heart, I lost it. I was just like...
Me too. Lonnie's so good. He's wonderful. Lonnie's incredible. Milo's incredible. Wonderful. I mean, the two of them is just like, again, it laid the groundwork for everything that we came to know and love of these characters moving forward and recognizing their bond. But yeah, I just, I was really struck by that. Me too. Me too. And so to play it forward, he says that like, because he's like, I don't want...
and Kevin to not get ice cream and I get ice cream and then I feel even different from everybody else. He's like, but that's not, we'll figure that part out. But to a kid, if you tell them, if you get all A's, you get ice cream. And then my brother and sister don't get ice cream. And then I'm already, I don't have the side pains that they have when they feel each other's things happening. Like I,
Like we hear later on that like grandmother calls the twins and Randall. You know what I'm saying? Like I already am like here. So like I'm going to do everything I can to just be one of the gang, you know? So he needed permission to be like, okay, if I still get a chance to be a part of this group, I can do this. But like I don't want to not be part of the group. It's so fascinating to watch this show again.
like so clearly demonstrate that early on we're all just like grasping like okay how do I find love in this world yeah what's gonna be my way into being loved yes and it's and and as actors we probably all have something similar as far as like it's like I know watch this I
You know what I mean? Like, can you do this? Hit him with the shuffle ball. There's a little bit of that, right? And people are like, oh. Thank you. Very clear. Now you're valued. I have done this and you have applauded. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you mentioned it earlier about...
We'll deal with that when it comes. I love you, I love you, I love you. But the love is expressed differently based on the way that you need love to be expressed to you and the way that I express love, right? I've seen really good directors do this. I saw Tommy, the first time I ever saw it done, it was Tommy Kailh.
Yeah. Right? The director of Hamilton. Yeah. And he had six actors in front of him. One of them was me. And he gave us, we had a four-hour rehearsal, and he gave us each one note. But I watched him go from person to person to person and change character to communicate with that person the way that they needed to be communicated with. Yeah, man. And I was like, oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. And I'm kind of finding that, I mean, obviously, Aoife...
Our youngest is a year and a half. So the communication is very basic, but like it's different. Yeah, it is. And you need to be multilingual in whatever love language you're speaking to communicate and to offer validation in the right way. Is it validation? Is that the right word? To someone who's looking, to a kid who's looking for...
- Their way into love? - Yeah, that makes sense. - To be seen and understood. - Yeah. - I think so. - I don't know, I'm still figuring it out.
I hear what you're saying in terms of like, you know, ultimately you want to get to that place where you don't need external, but I think it has, that muscle has to be developed. I think plants help to develop it. You have to build it. You have to build it. And then eventually you get to a certain point in your life where you realize that it has to come from within. But like what you were saying with Jack and Randall,
the quote that you gave about, I love you more than a human heart. Like that's it. Yeah. That's all you need to know. Absolutely. All of this other stuff, ups, downs, ins, outs, death, birth, good, bad. That's all grist for the mill. Right. The foundation of everything is. Yeah. You're going to love me. Yeah. Like you are every ounce my son. You're every bit my son. You are no different than Kevin or Kate. Yeah.
I was just like, yep, that's the ballgame. So he gets that permission. They decide to send him to the school. He's like, will they get to ride in the car with us? He's like, yeah, we'll drop them off first, and I'll drop you off. And you see him teaching his son how to tie a tie, which got me there because I had Andrew, my oldest, was going to a dance. He's like, Dad, could you help me with my tie? I was like, yeah, I'll help you with your tie.
You know what I'm saying? Like, this is a good moment. It was a good moment, right? And he sends them off to school and then it comes back to Randall and he comes down to his family and he tells them, "My dad wore a tie to work because he had to. I wear a tie to work because I want to." Right? I think it's important that you guys know that. He says to William, "I appreciate the piano lessons, but like, I don't want to introduce that dynamic.
Meaning that like, I don't want to need too much from you right now because I really like, I'm complicated in my relationship. So I'm going to take lessons from this lady down the street and I'm going to have a recital at the end of the year. And I hope everybody comes and supports me because this is important. Right. And these kids are like, okay, daddy. It's like, what was that? And Ben says, I think that was a midlife crisis. Just a little one. Just a little one.
And then William with a brilliant, just a little one. That's good. Loved that aside. That exchange was so good. It is a beautiful sort of moment. As I rewatched it, I was like, oh, this is,
I like this episode. Oh, what got me was you spinning in the chair at the end. That's what got me. Same. I love this. You go to work. He sits down in his chair because Annie has a line early in the episode. Where she says she likes to go to work. She's like, you like to go to work with me? And he's like, she's like, I like spinning your chair. And you see him sit. And don't you do that? Doesn't young Randall do it in the office too? Yes. Yes. And Jack. And Jack. It's a great echo. Yeah. It was a great echo. It was a really beautiful...
- Bit of symbolism that got me though. - Indeed. - What a great bit of clarification though too, for like your kids. Like it's one thing to acknowledge the sacrifices that your parents make, but it's another thing to see them doing something that they love. - Yes.
Yes, it is. Right, to witness it. Yeah. To see what it looks like. Yeah. Even if others might not understand it or find as much value in it or whatever the thing is. Agreed, agreed. I think another takeaway from the episode for me kind of jumping into a different storyline altogether. Yes, please.
was the first indication that there is a somewhat rocky relationship between Kate and Rebecca. Let's talk Kate and Rebecca. Yeah. Let's get into that. Well, you see Kate sort of get this new job. Yeah. She's working as a personal assistant. She's firing on all cylinders. You're like, wow, Kate's really good at this. Like, this is what she's meant to be doing with her life. Yeah.
She's really excelling here. And then I believe Maren was the name of the woman she was working for. Jamie Girtz. Jamie Girtz, yes. Well, you see Kate working for Jamie Girtz's character, Maren. And one of her tasks was taking Maren's daughter, Gemma. Gemma. Oh, Gemma's so sweet. She's a handful. Yeah.
Bless her heart, as they say in the South. Bless her heart. And watching Kate sort of reconcile with this young woman who wants nothing to do with her, talks back to her, isn't giving her like an inch. And she's supposed to be dropping her off at a friend's house. And finally, Kate is like had enough, fed up.
Abandons her on the side of the road. - Kicked her out. - Kicked her out of the car. - Gemma's first line to Kate is like, "Oh, you decided to pick the fat one." - Sure. - Something like that. - Yeah. - So sweet. - That's where the relationship started. - Yes. - This relationship was the first time I think so far in any of the episodes where I saw just a little bit of Chrissy come out. - Yes! - And her like, "Let me tell you something." That moment where a little bit of her Florida came out. - Yes!
- You're so right. - She was not messing around. - She wasn't messing around. And so, we'll tie it back to- - Rebecca. - To Rebecca and Kate. So Mandy Moore's beautiful, blah, blah, blah. She's clean and fresh, freshly showered, just feeling elegant and lovely. And her daughter says like, "You're so pretty." And we're like, "Oh, thank you, bug." She's like, "If I'm pretty and you are too, 'cause we look just alike."
And she said, would you go grab me my sweater out of the closet? And so young Kate goes to get the sweater. She holds up the collar. Now it's a small and she holds up her own and it's an XL. I'll be damned. It was such a small thing. It, it, it jacked me up. Yeah. Yeah. It, I'll let you guys talk. I had this moment of like, whatever we tell our children, um,
They still have eyes. And you can't like pull the wool. Like, you know, you can say a lot of things, but they're still experiencing the world as whole complete individuals deciphering stuff all the time. It's such an interesting ride to go back through all of these episodes and sort of pinpoint those moments of like, oh, okay, this is where they first start to sort of take that road. And you see it and start to understand that
that their relationship is is a bit rocky because she says as much to jemma like basically the episode kind of their storyline ends with the girl is back home safe with her mom obviously and she's sort of like sorry about all of that but also like i get you i see you i understand you i also have a mom who looks a certain way and was sort of like seemingly perfect and um and
And I made the mistake of not maintaining that relationship and like don't do as I did, essentially like giving her that warning. And again, so that was the first time you really recognize like, oh, what happened to the two of them? Yeah. You've only really seen Rebecca present day at this point with Randall's family. More That Was Us after this short break.
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One appetizer item per box while subscription is active. That's free appetizers for life at HelloFresh.com slash TWU at America's number one meal kit. I have a big family and a lot of big people in my family, plus size people in my family. And, um,
It's such an interesting thing because we don't have the dynamic that exists. My grandmother, my mother's mother was a big lady. But before she passed away, she said she wanted to lose some weight. So she did this sort of cottage cheese thing that they did back in the day. Dropped like 130 pounds. Oh, wow. Didn't like it.
And gained it all back. On purpose. On purpose. She was like, no, I don't like this. On purpose. So when I would come home from college, my grandmother would be like, ooh, Kel. Kelby, middle name. Ooh, Kel, you staying pope. Means I was being skinny. And if somebody got a little bit bigger, say, hey, doc, you looking mighty prosperous over there.
Big was good. Yeah. Big meant that you were fed. Interesting. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. In terms of just coming from- You were well taken care of. You know, like 1920s sort of depression mindset. It was like, yo, big meant I'm doing all right. Yeah. So that dynamic that Kate is experiencing with you is one that I didn't see in my family. Sure. Because it was big. We're all big. That was it. I'm sort of like-
The weird one, and not weird because like all the dudes in my family were all like really cut up, really jacked. And then like at one day they said like, all right, it's time. It's time. It's time to enjoy life. You know what I'm saying? But in that enjoyment of life, and I don't want to take this sidebar too far. My brother always says, my brother who's now, he'll be 62 this month. But he always say, you know, there's no men in our family that have lived beyond 65. Right.
Right. In our immediate family, everyone has sort of passed away before the time. And so my whole thought is like, well, we don't have to be that. We can we can show another way of being in this life. So that's one of the sort of motivating factors for self-care, et cetera. But I'm just imagining what it would be like.
to be big and to have a parent who does not have that cross to bear. And then the flip side of it is, 'cause you've seen it in a couple of times earlier episodes of like Rebecca trying to do what she thinks is the best thing by offering an alternative, right? By not making it like a thing, but just saying like, this is yours. But it's almost like you can't do anything without that kid taking it.
a certain way. - Sure. - That shit's hard. - Yeah. This parenting stuff. It's not easy. - It's not easy. - Shocking, right? - Let's dip into Big Kev, who's in the middle of his play. Things are not going
As well as he would want them to be. Whoever played the director of the play. Fantastic. That dude smashed it. I mean, spot on. Every director I've ever worked with in theater. Kevin said at some point in time. He's like, it's not my job. He's like, no, it is. That's your job. It's not my job to let you know how I'm feeling about something. He's like, no, Kevin, that's exactly. That's your only job. The definition of acting. It was the way that he jumped in. Like, thank you for saying that.
dog made me lol but it was another external person who decides that she has a technique to figure out to give him what he needs yeah so Olivia yeah says like what are you doing this weekend I want to take you to a party and he's like oh like is this the beginning of a flirtation yeah what kind of party let's let's go
So he's waiting outside at this spot and he's like, what kind of party is this? And she's like, it's a wake, it's a memorial or it's a post funeral, right? They go into this thing and like people are grieving. And he's like, what's going on? Like, why did you bring me to this? Like sort of like affronted by this idea. And before we go any further, it did make me remember, because I have to remember this from time to time, that introspection was,
is not a natural thing, I think for a lot of us. - It's dangerous. - Yeah. - We don't have time. - That curiosity. - You know what I'm saying? - Yeah. - We can't afford it. - We as an occupation, it's almost mandatory to a certain extent. - Yeah. - Because there's also, I would say for me, let me speak for myself.
The idea that someone is able to connect to my experience or that I'm able to illuminate an experience that they're going through allows them to know that they're not going through it by themselves, that other people have experienced this too. And thus it normalizes whatever it is that they're feeling instead of making them feel like something's wrong with me. Sure. Right? That's your job. Yes. Right.
That's the beautiful part of it when people are able to say, like, I recognize that experience and thank you for putting that on the screen for me. Right. Kev is not that actor at this time. And he goes through this process. He's there and he has this wonderful encounter with the widow.
Beautiful. She was gorgeous. Yeah, she was great. I really enjoy unraveling the layers of Kevin Pearson. I think he's such an interesting person who can sort of easily be dismissed and you just sort of realize that like, oh no, there's more to this man. There's a lot of depth. A lot of depth, right? And she's talking about her son being 15 when his dad passed away and how he's sort of going through it and trying to figure out how to deal with his grief. Yeah.
And this is the first time that we hear Kevin talk about when his dad died. Molly Hagen and Justin Hartley have this beautiful scene that just ends in this embrace. And Kevin is crying and Grace is crying. The interesting part about Olivia's choice to take him to this place is
is that she gets a glimpse that he might not be an introspective actor, but he is an introspective person. So she's trying to connect them, right? Put him in a real life experience of introspection, especially what she finds out. That would activate that side of him. So speaking of, because then later they wound up, it's implied that they knock boots, right? Make love, please.
This is someone's funeral, Sterling, please. They make love on the coats. They make love on the coat. On the guest's coat. Sweet, sweet coat-layered lovemaking was happening. And then they get back to- What if you got your coat back? And you're like- I don't want to- We don't need to get into it, but if I was like- I would take my black light. What happened here? What a deeply manipulative thing this woman does when she goes like, that thing that happened between us, it'll never happen again.
How does that make you feel? I'm your wife and I'm dead and you will never be with me again. And she goes, how does that make you feel? He goes, sad. Sad? Use that. Use that. I'm going to tell America or the world right now, if an actor ever did something like that to me, I'll punch him in the nose. Not a lady. Not if it was a lady. If it was a lady actor. I'm even metaphorically speaking, that is one of the most manipulative
Could you imagine somebody doing something like that to you? That's wild. It's insane. It is insane. Yeah. I mean, I want to communicate to folks who aren't acting. We don't play mind games with each other like that. I also want to communicate to the people watching that some of us do. I've encountered people who do, and it is insane and infuriating.
but it's not the norm, all right? - It's not the norm at all whatsoever. So I think that the main part of that storyline is just seeing that like he is someone, it's almost like you said it, it can be scary and it's sort of self protective. He's like, I've had that feeling. Like if I allow myself to go to that place, could I unravel?
Could like everything that I've tried so hard to put into place and look sort of armored and together. Like if I unmasked it all, will I just fall apart? And I think you see Kevin sort of having like. Sure. Yeah. Like he's the jack in the box. How do I put it back on? Can I put it all back in? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's too much. The way he says sad.
It's like, you know, when I first went on my like therapy journey, I was like, my therapist was like, you know, there's 87 basic human emotions. And I was like. 87? I was like, me no. Chris said.
Chris happy. Like what else is like Chris angry. Like, but like she literally handed me a flow. I was on set with another actor who had the flow chart. Yeah. And, and part of the way he breaks down his scripts is like, there's the, the core seven emotions and each category has eight more.
within that category. And he maps out his beats by going, okay, this is a... And then specifies his beats by the emotion wheel. And I was like, yeah, my therapist gave me that chart just to live my life.
Never mind. Do my job. Just like keep it in your pocket. Take it out as a reference. Hold on. Hold on. One sec. Back to one. Let me, let me identify what I'm feeling right now. Regretful. Suicide. Okay. Go. That's intense. Yeah, it's a lot. It's good though. It is very good. But yeah, like to tap in, to, to, to,
And again, it's overwhelming. 87. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is why you were talking earlier, introspection is a dangerous...
place to go for some people, especially depending on what they've been through. I heard one guy say, your mind is a dangerous neighborhood. Don't go in there alone. I hear you. That's what therapy is. That's what friends are for. It's what family is for. There's all kinds of voices and characters. Or maybe that's just me. I have a grad school anecdote.
I had a teacher tell me one time, he said, "It looks like you don't like to get angry." And I said, "No, I don't like to get angry." And he goes, "Why not?" He's like, "Because I don't know what I'll do when I get angry." He's like, "You won't do that much." I was like, "How do you know that?" And he goes, "Just try it. Like, do you need to throw a chair?" He's like, "Just throw the chair." I was like, "For real?" He's like, "Yeah, pick the chair up. Throw it as hard as you can." I was like, "You're not serious." He's like, "Yeah, do it." I proceeded to like,
smash this chair. And it was awesome because I didn't, I thought like people might get hurt and dah, dah, dah, dah. Like you imagine in your head the game that we'll come to know later on as worst case scenario. And that like, it's going to be something that you can't come back from. You can. And so like, while you, like, while you're saying this thing about introspection, I often think my experience has been when I tried to bury it,
and keep it sort of like untouched or whatnot, it's still there. And it's still sort of like affecting me in my present, whether I'm being conscious about it or not. So being attentive and aware of something that you're feeling just means that it gives you access to make a choice. Right. Whatever that choice is. Right. But it's about...
I know a lot of people who try to access this stuff who don't have the tools, who don't have the guardrails, who don't have the support system, who don't have... That's why people go to church, they go to counselors, they go to therapists, whoever it is, they take up a spiritual practice, they meditate, whatever the thing is, the guide rail to help you address these things that have maybe been stuffed for so long. Because if they all come out at once...
that's when you end up with a midlife crisis or a big one. Sure. Or, you know, or a nervous breakdown. And so it's fascinating to watch, especially to bring it back to the episode, Kevin, like, sad. Oh. Oh, this is sadness. Yeah. Oh. I haven't been acquainted with this feeling. For a long time. Yeah. This is a great episode. This is a really good episode. Yeah. Should we talk to some fans? Let's talk to some fans. Yeah. I look forward to it. Me too. Yeah.
All right. On today's fan segment, it's the age old question. What do you want to be when you grow up? For some, a childhood dream evolves. For others, childhood dreams come true. And then there are also stories like Jack's where he has a dream that is well within his reach and yet he sacrifices it so that his son may reach and pursue his dreams to pursue the fullest version of himself.
version of himself. So for today's fan segment, we asked our fans, what do you want to be when you grow up? And so we're going to share a few stories that we received from fans who answered this question. And story number one. This is Linda. This is Linda. And Linda says, I always knew that I wanted to help people. I wanted to make a difference. So when it came time to decide on a school and choose a focus, I was prepared to study social work. Social work helps people.
As a result of family events and the loss of my father at 18, I had to be able to take care of myself earlier than I thought I would.
The experience had dealing with the pain of seeing my father sick and the difficulty I had in watching my mom struggle. I decided I needed to just get a job where I could use my skills and protect my heart because I was so raw from all the emotion that I experienced in my family life. And I knew if I just continued to move towards social work and be exposed to that environment on a daily basis, I'd break and I wouldn't be able to help anybody.
In the end, I pivoted and I found a way to still help others through nonprofit work, education, and agency support on an administrative level. That's from Linda.
And I can appreciate that pivot. Social work has like one of the highest turnovers. I mean, it's understandable. It's brutal business. Of all occupations. The emotional burnout, I can't even imagine. It is. I mean, I couldn't imagine it either. And like when I see people who do that work, I'm like, God bless you. It really is. There's like, they see things that we all as average citizens of the world don't have to see on a regular basis. Yeah.
and they keep going. - Encounter it on a daily basis. So kudos to Linda for finding that happy medium where she was still able to help people,
And kind of achieve her dream in that sense, but also. Yeah. To realize that you can't help anybody if you are destroyed. Amen. Amen. So the second story is from Carrie and Carrie says, I always wanted to be a nurse and by gosh, I pursued it. My earliest memory of this dream was playing nurse and wearing the costume to match when I was four or five. And when I was in eighth grade, I was a candy striper and I loved it.
Once I finished high school, I heard about a year-long program that offered a child care technician course, otherwise known as an infant nurse, that would grant certification to work in the hospital. Interestingly, as part of this program, I was assigned to work with infants at an orphanage, the same orphanage my parents adopted me from when I was a baby. And I wasn't the only one. I remember our group being told by the staff,
don't go thinking you're going to find files on yourself. When I graduated from the program, I worked at a hospital until I got married and I returned to school to become a registered nurse. I had children. I took time away from work. And then when I did return, I continued part-time. It happened. It happened. Yeah. What she always wanted to be, she became. She became. Yeah. Just on her own time. Right on, Keri. I love that. Me too.
- Wait, I'm gonna give it, so this reminds me, I have a nephew who would sit up at age three or four and he'd watch the Weather Channel hours at a time. Just always watch it. He's a meteorologist in St. Louis. - No way! - Yeah. - Wow. - Sometimes it happens like that. - He just knows. - Sometimes it happens like that. I had no idea I wanted to be an actor until much later, but yeah. - So admirable. - It's pretty cool. - Three or four to know and then-- - To just know. - And now he is. - Less. - Amazing.
Um, story three is from Jose. I was nine when my mom, brother, and I left Cuba for Miami. Fidel had taken over. We left my dad behind. He wouldn't join us until he was able to ensure the rest of his family could get out too.
I gave no thought to what I wanted to be. I was always interested in biology and psychology. I love animals, insects, and living things. When my dad joined us in the States, he started a jewelry shop and brought in a partner. As a kid in the summers, my brother and I would take turns replacing the vacationing person.
We hated it. But years later, and after I graduated with a degree in psychology, my dad's business partner was ready to retire, and I had the opportunity to buy him out and get to work with my dad again. I was 28.
And while I didn't become a psychologist per se, going to school molded me in a way that wouldn't have happened had I not gone. Getting married, having kids, and helping my Cuban side were also part of my journey. And all the paths I took along the way changed my possible choices. And while my enlightenment is still a work in progress, I'm learning how to make the best of whatever situation I'm in,
And that's a challenge worth tackling. Come on, Jose. Every one of these stories, like things unfolded in a way that was unexpected as life does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not everybody's lucky enough to be your cousin or nephew with becoming a meteorologist. Whatever you call it, people call it faith. People call it...
Many different things, but to have faith that what is unfolding, the mystery of it, even if it is horrifying, even if it is painful, even if it is joyful, that the purpose of it might not reveal itself to you... In that moment. For years. For years. Yeah, and having faith. And our show does this, like almost immediately. It does.
jumps to the end and then back to the beginning. To show our audience that it's impossible to know in the moment how it's gonna work out, but it's gonna work out. - It's gonna work out. I think having the belief sort of dictates the outcome to a certain extent, right? Like I say this oftentimes, my mom used to give me this little book
when I was a kid and it was by this guy named Charles Capps. And she said, it said, "Words have creative power." Because the way in which we relate to words is often descriptive and not prescriptive. Meaning that we just explain the circumstances that we're in rather than sort of saying like, these are the circumstances that I wish to be in. And sort of calling things as though they were, even though, that's faith, like things as though they were with the evidence of things unseen. Just believing it.
Right? Like sometimes, 'cause it's not the majority of it is probably uncomfortable or a lot of it is uncomfortable. I just recently, my brother, his wife of 31 years passed away.
And so thank you. I see him in the midst of his grief. And again, my brother's very much like Randall, and he's a caretaker. And he'd been sick for about 14 years. And so I see that the two who were we now sort of functioning as an I and figuring out who am I if I don't have this person by my side or whatnot. In the midst of it, it is so difficult to understand why things happen.
- Yeah. - In the midst, do you know what I'm saying? - Sure, sure, sure. - But if you're able to take that deep breath and believe that like, okay,
maybe it's not even believe that it's for the best, but like, what is it that the universe is trying to show me or illuminate within me and my world that I can take and move forward with that is of benefit to myself and/or other people? - And others, yeah. - Right. - Then you pay attention to that. And I think Jose, I think, is an example of like someone who's like, all right, I thought it was gonna be psychology. I thought it was gonna be that, but like, I got a chance to work with my dad and that degree, even though I'm not doing it,
That degree still kind of brought me to where I am. You know what I'm saying? Yep. That's right. So that's it. I love that lens. That's it. Thank you for responding. Yes. Yeah, thanks for joining us and sending in your story. I like the fans. Fans are cool. Yeah. They're awesome. Send some videos so we can see you. Yeah. If we've got an email. And we have a phone number too, right? You can leave us a message.
on our emotional hotline. Yes. And that number is 412-501-3028. And you can send us an email at thatwassuspottedgmail.com. We want to hear from you. Yes. Please and thank you. All right, gang. See you next time. Until next time, we meet again. That was us. Later, y'all. That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.