#112. Alex Wang & Hillary Lin: In Stars & Cards
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What's up everybody? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. If you've been enjoying the show, go ahead, rate, comment, and subscribe. We got two really interesting guests today. One is an astrologer. Yep. The other is a tarot card reader. Yeah. And live on the show, I had my astrology read to me and analyzed.

And we both had a tarot card reading. Yeah. And we found out a lot of stuff that maybe we didn't really want to face, but we found some answers. It got intense. It really did get intense. And I feel like we got a lot more personal on this show, especially with the tarot card reading.

than we usually get. Yeah, well, it got serious. I mean, like, the air got lifted out for a little bit, and then all of a sudden it was like, we're really concentrating on the questions and finding out the answers. Yeah, we definitely just scratched the surface of this art, I guess. Yes. And on air, there were a lot of details I think our guests intentionally left out because they weren't comfortable sharing such personal information about us on air

You know, this is on our journey to, you know, keep open-minded and explore other areas where we can find help, find answers, find clarity. And I just want to say, it's like, this is the first time we ever tried anything like this. And I would say it's like, it's a great introduction to tarot card reading and astrology in

in general, that hopefully all of you can learn a little bit more about it, and if you're really interested, can dig deeper. Yeah. So, without further ado, please give it up for Alex and Hilary. Let's go back to the land where the bright eyes were and what she was like.

So it's interesting, I don't know why. Have you tried? I just downloaded it. I mean, I'm not going to... Yeah, maybe later. Self-trim. Can you even self-trim? Can you hypnotize yourself? Is that possible? I don't know. Maybe. I think whiskey will help that. Yeah, right? Okay, yeah. Speaking of whiskey, cheers, guys. Cheers. Welcome to the show, Alex and Hillary. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. We got a double-decker today. Yeah.

Alex, why don't you introduce yourself very quick? Sure. I part-time work as an astrologer, the Vedic astrologer. It's a little bit different from the Western side. We can go into details later. I had the education background in the States, stayed there for about 12 years, came back right before the COVID started, worked in different consulting companies, and now I'm here. That's a brief, brief. Yeah, I find your...

Your kind of biography actually very curious and interesting. Yeah. Because you were working like regular corporate jobs. Yes. For different firms. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you decide to kind of just go professionally full time into astrology. I was, yeah, I mean...

I was working for startups and I have always liked astrology since college. I did mathematics in college. There's a lot of correlation between math and how astronomy works. And then I met a professor from India teaching economics who is specializing, who basically told me all the things about spiritual side of the Indian practices, Hinduism, all of that yoga. And I got into astrology and I thought this really works because...

as you observe your life and things start to match up and just get into deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole, um,

Sadly, I don't think there is any, I would say, Asian, not excluding India, Chinese, Japanese. I don't think there is a really, really good Vedic astrologer among us. Okay, what is Vedic astrology? It's thinking like it's a term to describe ancient India. So the current contemporary India is really not Vedic. People speak Hindi. But in the past, Vedic time, people speak Sanskrit. Okay.

and that's a very different language just like chinese right now the chinese very different than the old chinese before the revolution all of that so vedic refers to that and uh most of the vedic knowledge is coming from the uh two couple thousand years ago there was a book uh written just like there's many books written on buddhism all of that and there's one book particularly written on how to see the fate through stars

by a sage and we call it a sage basically really accomplished monk you can think about that way and then from there the knowledge kind of evolved and become secretive because if everybody know this and everybody can predict and can

do bad thing too. Like if I know that's how to do good thing, then how to do bad thing is also easy. Just do the reverse of that. So become secretive until recently, I would say only recently in the past 30 years, people start to spread the knowledge like more widely.

Of course, there's the popular side where people read your Taurus, your Aries, your... It's more like the Western traditional astrology. That's the Western... Yeah, like on the back of a newspaper. Exactly. That's all the thing you read, basically. Most people read that, especially in China, there's not really a good source. And most people are trying to become famous really fast, which is not... So is that all bullshit?

There is valid point to it. It's just like when you are reading about dietary advice, like I'm going to read, like eat more vegetables. Sure. That's generally good for everybody.

But then there is a lot of details of what vegetable to eat, whether you're allergic to something, if you're building muscle, what you need to do. But then if the advice is just eat more vegetables, it's not medical prescriptions to all disease that you might have, but these are just general descriptions. - Yeah, and it doesn't take a master to tell you to eat more vegetables. It doesn't take a doctor.

Or drink more water, like everybody said. So wait, so did astrology originate in India, ancient India? Every single civilization has it. China has the four animals, right? You have the qinglong, zhuque, baihu, xuanwu. That's the four directions on the sky, basically. But somewhere along the line, it just gets missed. It's not being passed down properly. The knowledge just kind of gets lost. But, you know, in the Marien period,

civilization they have it too in the western mostly Babylonian astrology has it too the western the circular chart well all ancient civilizations were looking up at the stars exactly exactly that's the point building their faith on the stars yeah and then people develop different language about it but they describe the same thing it's just different language

Like if I'm going to talk to English with you guys, you understand. If you talk Chinese, you understand too. It's the same thing. So what's the difference between Vedic and Chinese? I mean, because I know in China, for example, when we...

My mother is very into like Sun Ming and stuff like that, right? And a lot of times, it's the same thing. You're talking about time at birth. - Yeah, the same exact details. - Oh, it's just a different language? - It's a different language. They might ask you, if you're gonna go to like a Chinese doctor and they might test your blood pressure, all of that is the same thing. If you go to a Western doctor, you get checked the same exact thing.

but they just interpret information slightly differently. And also it's helpful if you're coming from an Asian background, culture-wise, then you might understand the Asian interpretation slightly easier. Just there are so many reference to help you anchor what you're understanding about.

Okay. Interesting. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, it definitely makes sense. And I can't wait to dive deeper into understanding this. Of course. So I want to move on to Hillary. Before we get into the whole rabbit hole of each of what you do, let's just introduce our listeners and ourselves to kind of both of you first, and then we can just have a lot of fun with it. Exactly. So Hillary, welcome to the show. Thanks. Thanks for having me. So your tarot cards. Yes. Tarot cards. So how did you get into that?

Well, I think it's because where I was born, it's North China, right? In Liaoning. So there's has a lot of people who are actually normal people, but then all of a sudden something was happening to them, make them get into another different, I don't know how to say like different state of mind. And they all of a sudden they can tell that

about these people's like their past life or something else and then I like I was always interested in that kind of stuff and I was looking for someone who can read tarot or like do a fortune telling for me and I find a master who taught me how to read tarot and she's a really good one and that's how I started to to get into those like images and to how so how long ago was that

It was seven years ago. Oh, wow. So you've been doing this for a while. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. The only place I've seen tarot cards is on TV, you know. Which is a very Western thing. It's a very Western thing. Everything I see is very Western because I'm watching all the Western media and stuff like that. But so what is tarot reading?

Tarot rating, it's kind of like... Because tarot card is kind of like a tool or a book or a friend that you can use it by yourself. And maybe you can use it to do a rating for another person. It just kind of like... Generally, it has 78 cards. And those images, it was printed on a card. And people can find...

Every aspect of their life, those messages, it's already printed on the card. So when people shuffle the card, they can pick different cards. And when it

Like those cards put it together and the reader can tell a story about this person and also can solve the problem they're facing right now. Okay, so is it trying to tell the future or is it just trying to read into the person's past or like what is the goal of tarot reading? The goal, it has so many things you could ask.

For example, like about your relationship, about your career, about your past, about the relationship between anyone that you want to ask. And also, if you want to ask what is going to happen in the future, it will give you an answer. So you could ask anything in your life. So here's my question about it. Not to challenge you or anything like that, but just more curious. So what makes tarot cards believable? I don't want to be like...

it explained too many things about like the terror rating how it works because there's so many things we cannot explain it but I think you will know when you tried it every single time even me from the very beginning when I just started I was so scared about this message how accurate it was and then every single time when I was trying to rate for people and I could have like I could have

Like those feelings and their face is telling me the thing is like what I'm saying is accurate. It's correct for them. And some of them, they are crying during the rating a lot. Yeah, it's kind of like people they can... For example, for me, I could rate the card and to see their deeper secrets. And I don't think it's a deeper secret because...

I don't know if that's a secret for them, but for them, it just, they never told anyone about this. Yeah. Interesting. So it's almost like, you know, there's a, there's a, I guess a way of thought that is getting more popular in the past, let's say 10, 15 years where it's like the law of attraction. I'm like looking at this gift.

gift from you right now uh where if you're if you're thinking positively or if you're thinking about what you want you're telling the universe what you want um it's like the law of attraction you're going to attract that positivity or you're going to attract that goal whatever by keeping that mindset yeah um it's almost like what you're saying i can almost

where people listen to what you're saying and then they believe what you're saying, it almost can come to reality because of that belief. Do you think that is accurate? I think that is 90% or I'm not going to say 100% accurate. It's just like...

I think nowadays you could find terror rating videos online very easily and it's getting popular and popular and people are starting to watch those videos and some of my friends, they don't believe such things but they start to watch those videos right now and it's really make me feel curious why they're doing this and they're telling me that those videos, some of them are accurate but some of them are not accurate because you

You cannot tell through the... Like, just based on the radio, you cannot tell who they are. Like, the raiders, what is their experience? And how could you know that they're saying it's true? So people are... I think they're just... If they're not finding a personal raider for them to do a personal rating, then they will just...

find something that means something to them. They find the accuracy. Yeah, that part. Well, because they're looking for something to connect to, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. With tarot reading, I think, I don't know, I think for most people,

They see it as, you know, a gimmick, a fun thing, right? Like just like going to a psychic or something. Oh, it's like could be fun. Let's just check it out. Right. It's not really taken that seriously. But clearly you've been doing this for a long time. You take it seriously. I'm sure there's a whole community of people that do.

I mean, what's really like kind of the motive behind you having spent so much time doing tarot reading? It's a tough question, I think. Because from the very beginning, I was playing the card and the thoughts that I could rate those things for people. And I find...

Oh, I am so accurate. I'm so happy for myself. I'm so proud of myself because I've done something like this really... Like you feel like you're accomplishing something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I realized it wasn't that ego part. It wasn't because of like... It's not like what I want to do. It's actually while I was doing the reading, I could actually helping people to see what they cannot see. So...

like is there a spiritual element to tarot reading like where like where is this some sort of divine mystical power like what what what's the source of this or is it scientific like what when you do a tarot like what's involved in it you know can i cut can i cut yeah please i feel i feel like there is you know with tarot card i haven't done enough to make a judgment but

These type of practices, especially tarot and probably I Ching, is aimed to cut through the randomness of life. And a lot of time when you have a deck of cards, when you spread them around and shuffle them and put them together, the randomness normally would, we would assume that it's completely random. There is no...

whatever come out as the first card or second card is completely just messed up. Like there's no science in that. But the tarot is basically saying, you know, every single thing, even the order of the card has a reason that result that. We just don't know what's the reason behind it. For example, if you go for interview today,

and you did really good, you can attribute that to your preparation, you can attribute that to your past experience, you attribute that to many other things. But you cannot say that because the weather is good, because the car is on time, because everything works so properly around you, those are not a part of the contributing factors to the success of the interview.

So I think what tarot card is trying to do is like a weather forecast around you, depends on what question you can ask. And there is, you probably heard there is major and minor arcana. The major arcana is basically there is a 20, how many cards the major arcana, I don't know. - 22. - Yeah, there's 22 major arcana. It described the major event a person has to go through in their life.

such as, you know, the birth and the struggles and lover and all of that to the end, which is the world, which is accomplished man or woman in this own right. So at, and we kind of live in archetypal way that, you know, like you're born and you struggle and you're trying to get something, there's conflicts. That's why, you know, the Hollywood movie always work because there's always a,

archetypal struggle within the person. It's just how you do it artistically. Different director has different takes on that. And these cards, when you get spread out in that moment, at that time with that person in front of you, the order is not just completely random. Because if we just use science as the lens, then it's just complete random. There is nothing orders in the deck.

But with Tyrold is more like, maybe there is a reason for that. It's ordered that way on that day. I get it. I get it. That makes a lot of sense to me actually, because I think, you know, for, for people who are completely ignorant to, to this, I think where we just associate it with like mind reading and like psychic powers and we just like cast it aside. But from what both of you are saying, it makes a lot of sense. It's,

It's a way to kind of put a narrative to your life, right? And it's not necessarily trying to predict the future or do anything crazy like that, but it's trying to tell a story about what your situation is, what your life is. And from that, you can start kind of maybe seeing like what you've done in the past, what you're doing now, and maybe what you may do in the future to kind of

improve your life situation yeah yeah or trying to make a hard decision sometimes that also the case yeah it makes it like it puts your life into like a storybook yes and then from there you can be like ah okay i see because we don't really we don't usually have like the best vantage points or perspectives of our own lives sometimes because we're so like inside our own lives we don't see it from the outside

- Right, right, because archetypal experience is the same across the board. Like if you see a mom in China versus a mom in the States versus a mom in South America, they all experienced the similar things, being a mother and all of that struggles. And the same with a dad, the same with a kid, and same with being a teacher, and then same being a student, right? All these are because we all have been that part at some point. So that's what the card is trying to capture. And of course there's more subtlety to it.

And I'm not a big person. I'm more logical as a person. I have a mass training. So when I encountered Tyrell, I also had this thought, like, how can you just draw some cards and say this? But then looking like in the Chinese type of,

predictive work in terms of divinations is the same thing. You actually use stones and the sticks. - The sticks. - Yeah, the stick, that's even more, there's less, like more primitive than cards, right? I'll say that. So like, and then I just start like stop judging, just to see if it works. So just scientific method is to see whether it works. Like if it works, there is a reason, we don't know the reason, it's okay.

Yeah. Hey, Justin, have you ever had done any fortune telling or any tarot or astrology or anything like that? No. The whole reason why I brought up the hypnotherapy was that was like the closest I got to any. Which is nothing like that anymore. Which is nothing like what they're doing. Because I'm asking that because, you know, before we get even deeper, me personally, like my mom and my sister, I mean, they're very into this kind of stuff. Right. And growing up,

especially in America, I was like, I didn't believe it. And it wasn't until I came... I spent a long time in China in like 2005 or 2007 or something like that, in the mid-2000s. And I was young and my mom's like, you know, we need to see your future. And she drove me to like...

Somewhere in Suzhou, I don't know where. It was like dirt roads. We went to some... It's like broken down place. It's this old guy sitting like, you know, poor. He doesn't take money. He's just sitting there. And then people waiting in line. And I was like, what the hell is going on here? It's good. It's good. Right? So we get to him. And then he's like, you know, asking questions. I don't understand Chinese at that point. I studied Chinese when I moved here. And so my mom's giving me information. He's like...

do the sticks, you know? I'm like, the sticks are flying everywhere. I'm like, fuck, you know? And then he starts blah, blah, blah, blah, starts going. And then my mom is summarizing for me and then literally...

everything he said pretty much first he said about my past and i'm like yeah okay i can see that and he talks about present and without going to specifics i was like how the hell does he know that shit right and then he goes into the future where i'm at now and i'm like oh fuck like some of the things he said like everything's coming true yes like you and you've told me you've done this before uh you know you told me about that trip and you even told me like he predicted that we would meet right

Like when we were doing Roxley. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, something like that. Something with apparel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. About living together. I was going to get married to somebody with a family business. And it was... Married to somebody? We were not married. I know, but we were living together. Yeah, yeah, okay. You know what I mean? And we started something together. And he was like, yeah, you know, you do something together. Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? But anyway, it was just like, I'm just sharing the story because as a skeptic, right? I experienced it firsthand. And after my mother told me, she wrote everything down. I was like, pshh.

Whatever. Luck. But then later on, as time goes on, I'm starting to be like, okay, well, maybe there is something to it. And I really like what you just said, Alex, about the narrative. Every person or human being has... There's only so much, like a finite amount of...

like roads to go, right? It's not infinite. I don't think it's infinite, right? Based off of this type of ideology, there is finite. And that's why it could be defined based off of, let's say your time of birth or whatever, the card you're taking, like things like information can come out,

because it is finite. It's just like, you know, when you brought up Hollywood stories, I mean, there's only so many stories to tell and it's just how you tell it. You know what I mean? Because there is only so many stories to tell. - So it makes sense that there could be a system, whether it's through cards, whether it's through sticks and stones, whatever it is, whether it's through movies, you know, like there is, it makes sense that there would be, someone could figure out some sort of system, some sort of format.

that could generally help people in terms of like the archetypes they are and the stories that they live. Which makes it science. Yeah. I mean, I feel like it makes it science. Well, okay. Look, if there's one thing that I've learned through just growing up is that we don't know shit. Yeah. We really don't. Like I was telling Hillary earlier on, like I try to keep an open mind. Like I really do. You know, I have my doubts. I'm skeptical about a lot of things. Um,

But underneath all that, I really do always try to keep an open mind because I do believe that there are more things we don't understand than we do understand. And I don't think that's a stretch to say that. I think if you really think hard, you will understand that there's so much more we don't know than we do know, just as a species. And I think there's so much more that science has not yet been able to explain.

And so, and that's like, I feel like the majority of actual reality, we just don't know. Just like, you know, like, you know, scientists are saying there's more dark matter in the universe than any other matter that exists, right? And we don't know really yet what dark matter is. And that's like a real scientific thing. So I just think like, we got to keep an open mind because like a lot of people want to dismiss it as, oh, this is spiritual. This is woo-woo, right?

But I just think those are just names to kind of dismiss things without really trying to put in the work and time to really understand where these things are coming from, because many of these things come from

A long time ago. Yeah. You know, a long time ago. And these things have lasted and they've lasted for a reason. But that being said, I'm going to ask you two something. You tell me if I'm wrong. I feel like, not counting other Asian countries, but in China, Chinese in particular are more open to this kind of stuff. Do you think?

Yes or no? Compared to the West. I think so. I personally think so. I also think that they're open and closed at the same time. Like when I give a reading to a Westerner, people from

I did this one from California this morning. And it's a back and forth conversation. It's never, you ask questions, what do you mean by this? What do you mean by that? But when you go to a read, like give a Chinese person a reading, they normally don't say anything. Don't ask anything. They just take everything you say as facts or, you know,

- As information. - As information, exactly. So there's not so much interchange happening. I think that's also problematic 'cause they don't understand even though they are an astrologer and there are people who are better than me for sure. They're my teacher who teach astrology, all of that. Like if I gave the chart to my teacher, he will dug out more information. It's like, you're wrong at this point because blah, blah, blah.

So they don't understand there is a potential pitfall if you just take every single information that's built. That's the problem. Okay, so you have teachers from India. Yeah, so how did you get started in training in this then? How does that work? I'm sorry. They...

Yeah, I was doing math and then I met this teacher's economic professors, basically. And he told me what Vedic astrology really is. And he said, oh, I can suggest you something if you're just curious, just to figure out yourself. Like, it's just...

do one trial and figure it out. So I did that and I was pretty much stunned. And I was more stunned with the graphic part of it because it looks really logical to me. It looks like a math graph. It doesn't look like a... And that's what appealed to you? Yeah, that's what appeals to me because if just cars...

Excuse me, just those crazy cards. You'll have your chance later to get back at him. Just those board games they play. It sounds like a board game. Exactly. And I may be interested, but I will not put my mind work on figuring out why this is the case.

So, and then there's like, can I just learn each symbol? What does that mean? All of that. And I started to learn them. I started to do it with friends and some of them are pretty stunned by what I say. Like, how do you know type of things? And I just get deeper and deeper. And then when you get deeper, really, really deep in the Vedic system, you kind of branch out, you branch out to, you know, there's Vasu, which is the Indian equivalent of Feng Shui, which

And there is basically looking at your chart, I can see how is the best way to organize your house.

And there is also the Ayurveda, which is the Indian equivalent of Chinese medicine, which is Indian old school medicine. So all of that. So it's never in isolation. I think one thing about Western education, which I received, is that everything is kind of learned in complete isolation with regard to any other things. Like if you're going to do math, you just go deeper and there's no branching out.

Um, and then I just keep learning. And then eventually I found a group of people and, um,

in India and do online stuff. So I just... So are the teachers you learn from, are they like pretty well known? Yeah. Sanjay Rath, you guys can look it up. Sanjay, S-A-N-J-A-Y, Rath, R-A-T-H. He is, I would say, the person who first started to sharing all this type of knowledge because he came from a lineage. And there is a thing about lineage, just like in China, you have the martial art lineage, like Wing Chun is the

and from IP men, all of that. That's a lineage for martial art. And there's lineage for Vedic astrology too. And there's a couple of them. And he's the first one that can locate, there's no more secret. I want to, this is knowledge to be shared. And then he started to share it, I think back in 1992, started about 30 years now. - Wow. - Yeah, yeah. It's like seven,

approaching 70 years old. So I'm curious because I want to actually hear from both of you, but first, Alex, it sounds like you had to put a lot of time in learning, like studying and learning the craft. I mean, it's not just, you know, just having a little interest and then you can start doing it. You have to put in effort. Yeah, and it's also a lifetime learning because you never, for example, Justin has a much more complicated chart. I mean, both of you guys have a complicated chart.

complicated I have a much more complicated chart than Howie he's complicated because Howie's a simpleton there's not a lot going up in here there's not a lot going on up there so it's very simple it's just a blank page okay

What about you in terms of tarot? I mean, is there a lot of things you have to learn or study? Yeah, yeah. But I want to go back to what you were asking about if the Chinese people are more open to this. I would say...

I don't know if it's like, I don't think that way because, you know, when we are look into those mysterious things that we can see, also the tarot card is not invited in China. It's not invited in Asia. It's actually people saying it's from Italy.

在文艺复兴时期 So it was invented in Italy? Yeah. From like gypsies, right? I'm just being totally stereotypical, but was it from gypsies? No? It sounds like something gypsies would do. No, I'm being rude. I'm sorry. It's just like they are playing something like a poker card and all of a sudden they find an arithem

And the pattern through... A rhythm. Yeah, a rhythm when they are playing the card. So they are kind of like invited or developing how it works. Oh. Yeah. Oh.

So I don't think the Chinese people are more open. So maybe some trust. Maybe they're not really trusting of tarot here in China as opposed to the West. Maybe they're a little more open. Is that what you're saying? I think Western people are more into tarot cards. Yeah. It seems like a Western thing, right? It's just getting popular in China. Because honestly, to me, it didn't feel like it was that big here. No, because think about it. In the West, like America, where we grew up,

is like you can drive down the highway and you will pass by like, oh, a psychic reading here, a tarot card reading there, right? Like it was like they would open businesses and you would see them in strip malls. You would see them anywhere. - More solid. - Yeah. But here in Shanghai, at least, like, I mean, how often do you see that? It's more underground, I guess. - Underground. - Yeah. And also there is, I feel like China is really like a capitalistic country.

Like the belief is more, is not communism or it's not even confused. There's the belief is capitalism. So I mean, Tyrell, like as long as, as long as making money, then everything can be the shopping. So I don't think like, what's the craft going to be like, they don't really care about the craft. It's like, does that really pay the rent? I think that's the questions. Well, I guess talking about like beliefs and like, I guess maybe here in China, like,

Or just anywhere, you know, I'm sure you guys have kind of a more diverse kind of clientele. You have, you know, Chinese, you have Westerners. When they come to you, either of you,

Like what is usually are the things they're looking for help with? Is it more like family issues? Is it more career things? Like how do I make more money? Or is it more for like spiritual guidance? Like what are usually the things they're looking for help for? Correct. All of them. All of them. At once. Just give me everything. Hey, well, it makes sense, man. Like we're all living this kind of this rat race, right? Yeah.

- Yeah. - Do you get the same experience? - I would say mostly relationship, most people come to me. - Relationships? - Yeah. - Wow, okay. - I got all the female clients and they overwhelmingly talk about relationship as well as either how to, should I get in or should I get out from a relationship? - Oh, wow. - Yeah, it could work both way. And they do ask about career, but I also have a sense that it's almost like forming a relationship with a doctor

Like you don't really talk about your most private stuff the first time. Like you kind of get to know that person a little bit and then you talk about a little bit deeper issues. But relationship and career is the socially acceptable things that people normally ask. That's not really to think about it. Like people don't really go in to talk about their family drama immediately. Like that's really deep and people don't want to share that.

they don't know you. Might be like a multiple visit that you'll start opening up more. Yeah, there are several of those clients who come to me a couple of times and they really get comfortable and they start to share a little bit more. Definitely. What about you? It's, I would say, completely different because

For example, if you are the one who is seeking for a tarot reader, you want to ask anything. For example, let's say just about your relationship. And I'm not going to ask anything about you, any background. I don't want to know anything. I would just ask you to calm down your mind to do a short meditation. And when you are to calm down, you could pick the right card. Because not everyone, they are...

They came to me with a calm mindset. So I would just ask them to do a meditation. And then I would just ask them to shuffle the card and pick the card and ask me the question. And then when a card showed up, I would just explain what was happening and what is happening right now. And so I'm not going to ask anything about them. I would just like to read from the card because normally...

people, they don't really know what they're facing right now. They have a mindset, like they are convincing themselves this is the situation, but sometimes it's not. So probably they will need someone to tell them a different thing, to see things in a different perspective. So I was doing that kind of job like that. Yeah. So do you guys, in terms of your clientele,

Is it mostly people who are, like, already into this thing? Like, they believe in it and, you know, they've been doing this, so they do it regularly. Do you get any people who are just, like, just so desperate that weren't doing any of this stuff before, but they, like, just in, you know, a situation in their life where they're so desperate that they're like, you know what, I might as well try. Yeah. Yeah. You get a lot of those or just... From time to time, I have one who's...

whose love just passed away and they don't know what's happening. And she was like, I have to talk to somebody who... Because there is not a normal channels in the society unless you go to a therapist, but then it's a lot of money and it doesn't really cut through the bullshit because you have to deal with the marketing, deal with all the therapist stuff.

So, yeah, I have some of that, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that's like kind of the common thread because we talk to a lot of therapists on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Psychologists and, you know, therapists and stuff like that. And, you know, that's kind of like the more medical side, right? And there's a whole other side of therapy, I think, depending on what your preference is.

that you can gain from doing things like astrology, tarot card reading. I think there's a whole side of benefits on that that do help people with their situations that can help mental health and just help making decisions. They're really tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do know personally that when I ever go to class, astrology classes back in New York City, there's certified psychologists as a therapist coming to take the class.

to use it as a adundum to their practice. - Oh wow. - Yeah, there's a lot of that because they need to find,

I don't know why they do that, but I know it's a thing. For example, Carl Jung, the Jungian psychologist, he first coined the name archetype in the past. And he's a psychologist and actually he took heavy inspiration from astrology, where is this coming from? And then everything become history afterward. I'm no psychologist, so don't quote me on that, but I know, yeah. Interesting.

Okay, so let's have some fun. I feel like Justin really needs it. He's desperate right now. Okay, Alex, you go first. Justin's desperate. Cut to like 15 minutes later. I'm like crying here. I do hope that happens. Let's cheers first. Cheers. I can't wait to hear this about Justin. Me too, me too. Let me see. Okay, so for the listeners...

Normally, it's a private rating. Yeah. Oh, really? This show has made our life not private. Everybody knows our shit. We've shared very personal things on the show. Okay, so for the listeners, before today, Alex had me send over some information about my birth, right? Yeah. He had me send over the exact time of my birth, the location, everything.

and what else? - And the date. - And the date, right? - Yeah, yeah. - And you needed, you were very adamant about having a very specific time for the birth. - Yeah, the accuracy of time is really important to those who are listening. And if you go to any astrology, they will tell you that. And it's so important, you can think about it as, you know, between a saint and a criminal, the time difference can be just one minute or a couple seconds. - Really?

That's the case for Hitler. That's how I feel about him. You're saying I'm Hitler. Is that what you're saying? You could be. No, no, no. Wait, wait. So what about Hitler? I was saying that... He was born on the wrong time? Yeah. He was born... If he was born one minute later, he's a really good saint. He's a saint. Jesus, really? Yeah. Yeah.

Without going into too much detail, this is a really advanced study. But my point is that the time is really important. And then I bet a lot of logical person can ask me like, when is the birth time? Like when you come out from the womb, when the umbilical cord gets severed, like what's the time? So the time is the first breath, right?

So if you come out, you're not- The first cry. The first cry, exactly. Why? Because how to define when a person passed away is the last breath. It doesn't matter what caused it.

So that's the first breath. And I think you have a pretty accurate time. And so you had to do some preparation beforehand because you're showing me on your computer right now this chart. Right. And I feel like I'm back in school. Like, again, that same feeling of not knowing what the teacher is talking about. I get that. So...

Yeah, I'm looking at this really complex chart, and it looks very mathematical. Yeah. I'm going to describe the chart to the audience just really quick. So the chart is a rectangular chart, and it's having 12 sections. Because it's the Vedic system, the 12 sections are either a diamond-shaped or a triangle. And the most important thing about the chart is the...

is the first box. And this box is basically side ascendant or is the nature of you. So for example, you exist not in vacuum, you exist in relationship with him, with us, with your parents, with everything around you. And those everything around you is all the things that's represent outside of you. Whereas who you are as primary person is the first box. That's you like you're intelligent, how you look like to some extent and your health and all of that.

And that's Aries. So, you know, our term is just like Aries ascendant. So when Aries is descendant, normally the person is very... It's a soldier type of personality. Wait, Aries? Aries ascendant. Isn't he like the god of war? He's the god of war in the Roman mythology, yes. Aries is also the first start, the start of the entire Zodiac. It's the first sign of the 12th sign because that's where the...

It's where the spring starts, at the end of the year.

And as you can see, there's like a lot of planets without going into too much detail. Some interesting combination I found was that, for example, this thing, Ke, is lunar eclipse and moon together. So you do things in a really chaotic way. Not chaotic way, but like there's no, you don't like to plan stuff out. There's no rhyme and reason for my existence. Just the way that you think about it. Just the way like moon is just the way. Talk closer, like more direct into the mic. Okay, okay.

So I do things in more chaotic way. I don't plan things out. You plan things out to some extent, but when it comes to... This is a high faith. These things represent someone who have a lot of faith. Venus, Mercury, these two planets together, affection and speech. So whenever people talk to you, they feel really loved or really fun. Or either having laugh a lot or feel like really enjoyable speech. People who ever talk to you. That's definitely... That's the good... That's the...

That's the really, really great part of it. And as you can see, there's... So the 12th place is like the 12th section on the sky, right? And without going into too much detail, this is basically the timeline I was doing before you come. This is the timeline, for example. There's a huge, huge change around 50 or so, five years old. When you're five years old,

There's a change, 15 years old, 34 years old, and now you are between 34 and 45. - So wait, what are these changes? - These are the big astrological time you are going through. So normally at start, for example, five years old, there's a huge change. Like what kind of change then I have to sit down to talk to you?

- So there would have been a huge change in my life. - Yeah, huge change in my life, either to the positive or negative. - But I don't know how much you want to share on the podcast. - No, I'll share anything. I'm looking at this, I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm looking at. But what you've said so far,

I feel really resonates. I feel like I don't really plan, like I plan sometimes, but I do rely on faith a lot. - You do rely on faith. You rely on things will work out. That's the belief. - Yes, I do. I think probably Howie may attest to that. I do feel like that describes me well. The kind of affectionate speech or whatever, I think that, I think I do that. - The top left says low IQ, right?

I'm just kidding. Go ahead. The bottom right says small penis. Yeah. I actually can see the marriage. I see the marriage, at least the first significant lifelong partners. Some are really affectionate, really beautiful. But then after that, there is a bunch of people coming into the middle and kind of like disturb that.

At what age? Wait, wait, what age are we talking about? I haven't really gone into the age, but that's just like a general speaking. For example, UL is where you are. My first love. Is that what it's saying? Not first love because teenager love really doesn't show up here. It's something that is more like someone who we mean to be together, who is really, really attractive. You're meant to be with someone who is really attractive for the first one. I agree. I'm meant to be with someone who is really attractive. That's true.

That's correct. I am meant to be with someone married to each other. No, no, no. Okay, if all is good, I'm married. So does that talk about my wife? What is that talking about? If this is the marriage, then it will be your marriage. And then you're saying other things will come in that disturbs that? Yeah, because whatever is the second place from it is the thing that supports marriage. So if this is a really good planet, for example, Rahu is...

You can think about it as a bad boy becomes good. So you have to have a lot of activities happening at the same time to keep the marriage. So like you and her, I don't know, like, do you guys do a lot of stuff together? If you do, great. If you don't, then it's going to be difficult.

Yeah, we do a lot of stuff together. Yes, you have to do a lot of stuff together. So my point is that if someone who has a planet here that is negative and also weak, so a weak negative planet, then it will most definitely break the marriage. I've seen that many, many times. Okay, yeah, but I don't care about other people. What is that saying about me? It's good. It's keeping going. As long as you travel, travel is really important. Okay. But be brutally honest. You don't have to sugarcoat it just because, you know. Right. If it's saying something bad, I would like to know. Because he's a bad boy that's now a good boy, so...

I feel that describes me pretty well. Bad boy. Sorry, I'm the internet. No, no, no.

So are those, is that considered good planets or bad planets? Yeah, so there's nine planets in total and there is the traditional sun, moon, two, plus five elements. So Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, the five elements, so seven, plus the solar lunar eclipse, nine, and plus ascendant, 10. And among all of this, the most, I would say, difficult planets is Jupiter,

solar eclipse. In your case, you're born at a really interesting time. You're born both in the solar eclipse and as well as a lunar eclipse at the same time. So what does it mean? I'm a werewolf. That's what it means. Yeah. First, like, rely on faith. And second, you're not really confined in any society.

Like moon is society, when it's with lunar eclipse, not confined in society. Actually, when you feel like, oh, you're part of our group, you're from Hong Kong, your heart is like, no, I'm not from Hong Kong. When in the States, oh, we are part of a group, we are Americans. Like, no, I'm not American. So I'm not very tribal. Not tribal. You are, no, you're not tribal, definitely.

I think that's pretty accurate. Yeah, I'm definitely not tribal. Extremely not tribal. Yeah, because if the lunar eclipse is not there, the person's like, this is my group, this is family, this is my tribe. I'll fly it for some reason. Wait, when did you move to the States? What age? Like around three. Three? Yeah.

That's when I immigrated to the States. It's close. Three and five, right? Because you said five was like the first major shift. Yeah. What about 15? What happened to you around 15? I don't remember. What happened? I don't know. What happened? Hey, when did you leave your company? What company? Which company? Giftex. What age? So I'm 40 now. And that was... Four or five years ago? That was like five years ago, right? That's a big change.

That's a big thing. Wow. Right? Yeah, because you're saying around 34. I lost it. I lost it. No, it's okay. But that's what popped in my mind while you get that together again. But like, yeah, that's what popped in my mind for the mid-30s. Yeah, yeah. I guess around five is when you start going to school.

When did you start going to school? Yeah, around four or five. Yeah? Mm-hmm. That could have been a big change. Are you okay over there? The internet isn't working. I'm trying to get back to it. But from what you remember of the chart, though, is there internet now? Let's think back to 15 now. Anything happen to you when you're 15? I don't know. I don't even remember what I did last week, let alone 15, man.

What a waste of time. I'm sorry, Alex. What a waste of time. From what I remember. When you were looking at my chart, what could you summarize about me? Were you like, hmm? You are really, really harsh in terms of getting what you want.

Like you push forward really hard. Like we don't wait for people to say yes or no. It's just like, okay, you need to do this. By the way, you have affection and speech, but the action itself is like, I go for it, I won't. So basically, you know, there's the desired objects in life. Like you need to get, like everybody has some desire to get something and people sometimes either go nice with it or,

like, oh, if other people need it, maybe they should get it first. There is the way that is kind of really harsh because sometimes you need to compete, sometimes you need to fight, and then you're a really good fighter in that sense.

Like you don't really let people say no to you. You might say, okay, great. Because normally affectionate, funny speech, but when you're doing it, you're not gonna, it's a fighting type of combinations. - Like I'll be polite if someone rejects, but I'll still go ahead and do what I want. - You'll push really hard. Yes, yes. If people reject, you're gonna still pushing really hard. - It sounds like you. Does it? I feel like that kind of sounds like you. - He's also a physical fighter.

I punch him all the time. No, he's a fighter. Yeah, fighting. I see that. A really good fighter, actually. The things that when you get angry, it's really a problem. It's really a problem. Everybody step back. You're more describing Eric, really. No, I don't get angry that often. But when I do, it's very bottled up. Yes. Because I try not to... I try to just...

absorb my emotions most of the time. So when I do let it loose, I guess it could be scary because it's so pent up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's just some, some of the big, big things I see immediately. Look at this person.

really really faithful not faithful but has faith in life just like has faith that things will work out no matter why he never find anyone to do a fortune tally for him hey that's true that's true that's very true yeah because I almost felt like you know I'll figure it out yes yes that's the mentality

- And I say that to Aoi all the time. Like, yeah, we'll figure this out. Like, don't worry about it. - That's true. I also remember that just before I came, I saw the chart. There's a specific chart talking about parents. I see that you kind of like left home really early. Like, 'cause you don't want to stay home in terms of Hong Kong. Hong Kong doesn't really bring good memory. - Home as in the location where I was born? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Well, that's true. I left Hong Kong like weeks after I was born. - Yeah, even you go back, you just, I don't feel like staying there.

Do you like to go back to Hong Kong? Yeah, for visits. Yeah, for visits. For visits. I wouldn't want to live there right now. But yeah, for visits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also I see that there is some fighting family younger and all of that. Hmm.

Yeah. What other stuff? Relationship, I didn't really go into detail. I mean, that's like a really personal stuff. But that's the juicy stuff. That's the juicy stuff. He's dangling. He's dangling a carrot for you. No, but in the beginning, you said, okay, my first love. You said my first love. And then you were like saying like... Well, your first love, I remember you telling me was a hottie. Shut the fuck up, Ali.

That's not true. No one believed that. Okay, so... I'm just kidding. But then you said there were two planets that were going to come in. I don't know if you said planets, but you said two things that come in that could distract from my first life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

there's a time that the potential discretion can come. I haven't really checked. And like high school love doesn't count, you're saying. Like young love. Yeah, so they define relationship as... Because sometimes people get married together also because they want to have a kid. Sometimes people also get... There's arranged marriage. Sometimes there is also that...

the bride get kidnapped and there's all sorts of things happen in the past that it's not really into the mold but in the chart how we define love or relationship or someone staying with somebody long enough is you have to stay with this person under the same roof more than a year if you're not staying with this person if you're just dating some other somewhere else then it doesn't really count as a really partner I don't know that seems a little weird to me because like I feel like

you can love someone very deeply, but not stay under the same roof with them. - Because the goal for, because there is, so the goal for relationship is to form family. That's the chart perspective, or have children at least. - It's very Asian. - That's a very Asian mindset. And I mean, there's other reasons that people get together, for sure. There's many other, for example, I live with my girlfriend for more than a year, and we are not planning to form a family. Sometimes that, the goal is to learn something,

Sometimes the goal is to, you know, there's some karma in the past that has to be resolved. Now we talk about karma, but it's really not about astrology. Sometimes when you see that it just, this time people, these two people are getting together for the sake of accomplishing some task, like a business partnership type of things or political marriage and other things.

So if I see the chart is like, oh, this doesn't really have the promise of like a love marriage because everybody go for love marriage, then it's really difficult readings for me to tell that person that this, maybe next one, right? Because it doesn't just show up one marriage, it show up multiple. Like for example, there's people who go through life with the 10, 15 marriages, like playboy type of things, like Hafner, right? The guy.

And then you can see each marriage and how the person is interacting with him, basically. - So do you remember anything from Howie's reading that you did? - I remember a big things that just the combination that he has is the Jupiter and Saturn when they're together is called the creation yoga. It's a combination for creation. So the mind of the person, Howie is always thinking about how to create stuff. - Oh, that's so on point.

All sorts of stuff. Yeah, because he's very creative. He does, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also remember that how he's charted with Venus in Ascendant and you guys are matching really well. Like, you're Aries Ascendant and he's the Libra Ascendant. So that just go directly one, two, seven. It's a...

You know, sometimes they're partnership. It's a good partnership. Living under the roof more than a year. Yeah, we've done a lot of things together. Is he my first love? Is this what we're saying? Is this what we're exposing on the show? Eric has always been so jealous of our relationship. Eric is very jealous. Our other host. We've gone through a lot together. I bet if Eric did a reading with Alex, he would be like the complete, like, not compatible with us. Yeah.

That's crazy. That's cool. That was very fun. That's very interesting. But this is just the tip of the iceberg, right? So I know that for readings with Alex, I mean, he goes really deep and really in detail. And then it's as much as deep as you want to go, right? Yeah. Because you could just keep going. Yeah, this is still very surface right now. Oh, very surface. Just the very beginning. But

But thank you. I mean, I think a lot, and I'll talk to you probably more off air about this, but I think a lot of what you're saying, as you're saying it, is like ringing a lot of bells in my head, in my mind, and I'm like, oh, and things are starting to kind of line up a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So I can definitely see the potential of that in terms of,

like having like a deeper reading conversation. Yeah. Conversation about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also when I tell people the age, they most of them don't remember and they have to like go back and think like what happened during that time. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't, it stops. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. No problem. Yeah. Pleasure. Hillary. Yes. I'm ready. Let's move on. This looks, this looks really fun. You got like a glass ball. You got like a copper pot. Tell us what's going on here on the table here.

So there is a symbol that I'm using it to helping those people who came to me that to calm their mind. And also like, you know, I always suggesting people to come to me.

Like before, like the last night, they have to take a shower before the reading. And then it will help them to cleansing their body and also their mind. Perfect. I took a shower before coming here. I'm nice and clean. I smell good. It's your first of the month. I smell good.

Is that day of the month? Shower time? And those things are just helping you to calm down your mind and to really to ignoring the outer world and just focusing on your body and your breath and your mind what you are going to ask. And also the oil, you can try it. You can just put it anywhere you want. Anywhere? Anywhere.

Take those pants off. I'm not going to go crazy with you. Okay. And then smell it. It smells nice. Yeah. And right now, you are actually... We are actually just getting started. Okay. Okay. Let's go. You can take a deep breath. And would you... What do you want to ask? Anything. I'm approaching fatherhood. So I want to know about...

No, no, no, no, no. Something even more, something else on my mind, a little bit more. So I've been thinking about career, right? And, uh,

I feel like there's evolutions to my career and I feel like should I be thinking about that? Is there going to be success in terms of the evolution of my career? Is there an evolution to my career? Do I still keep doing what I do? That kind of stuff. Is that an appropriate question to ask? Okay. Cool. It's two questions. Okay.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I guess with the fatherhood thing then, I mean, am I going to be a good father? Is that an appropriate question? Okay. So, okay. Right now I want to tell you guys that terror rating is not for your lifetime. It's more specific, right? Yeah, it's more specific. It's more focusing on the present moment. Okay.

Like more like a specific decision you need to make? Yeah, right now or like what's going to happen in a year. Yeah, because obviously things change, right? You can't just say you will be a good father for your entire life. Exactly. That makes sense. See, I have a question I want to ask, but I'm afraid to ask. I don't want to ask it. Just ask it. Why are you afraid? Because you don't want to know the answer. Yeah, exactly. Just ask it then. No. Do it. What are you doing? Just ask it. I'm going to have a healthy birth of kids. Okay. Okay.

It's very interesting because normally while I was doing the reading, it has to be like one by one. Yeah, not with like spectators.

Justin, you can get that. No, I'm like totally focused in right now. Like this is crazy. So before the show, I've already used the white sage to cleanse in the tarot card. So don't worry. It will be your energy. Only your energy. Okay? So you can hold a card with both of your hands and close your eyes. Feel comfortable with it. And think about your problem or what you want to ask today. And...

Take a deep breath. When you breathe in, you can open your heart and receive any messages that you are going to receive today. And exhale. When you breathe out, try to relax your body. Now it's only you and your breath. Okay, so when you're ready, you can put a card. Open your eyes and you can put a card on the table. Any card?

All of them, you can put a card on the table. And with both of our hands, you can shuffle the card like when you're playing poker or any way you feel comfortable. But make sure that you are touching each card. So the tarot card is all downwards. You cannot see which one is which one, right? And then put them back together. You guys seem so serious. I'm very serious. It is serious. It's very serious. I'm so nervous right now for how I'm like... So your question would be...

Are you going to give a health? Is the birth of the children going to be healthy? Okay. This is serious shit. And pick three cards face down. Because this is the first one. The second one. Okay, the third one. Are you allowing me to rate a card for you? Yes. Okay, thank you. Okay, so the first one is the Ten of Swords. The second one is...

The five of pentacles in reverse. And the third one is the ten of wands in reverse. Okay, one more card. One more card? It's coming next month. Okay, one more. What I'm sensing here, I sense some nervous emotion. Is your wife, does she have enough? Like, how is she feel right now? Seems okay. Just...

Don't take her to anywhere far away. I would say during the process, 生孩子的这个阶段是没有任何问题的, 而且会让她觉得 release. Okay. But make sure she's staying inside. Are you ready for the baby? As ready as can be, I guess. I don't know. I guess first time.

And there's twins, so that's why I'm asking because it's a lot of... Well, no wonder why I see the two of cups here. Oh, what's that mean? The two of cups means two people. A commitment. Yeah, well, got two boys coming.

That was so intense. I was just like standing here like... Yeah, so intense. Yeah, I didn't want to ask that at first because... There was so much tension-filled silence. I was like... I didn't want to know, you know, in case. Like, I'm fogging, my glasses are fogging up. No, I didn't know you were going to ask that. I'm sorry for making you ask that question. Like, that was like, I didn't know you were going to drop with that. Yeah, that was what was on my mind. Between that and career, there's only two things on my mind. I have nothing else on my mind. My mind is blank.

You know what I mean? But there are actually a few things that I don't want to go that specific. It's just very normal for people who is going to have a baby. All right, thank you. Okay, let's go to the career. Oh, shit. Oh, fuck. Really? All right. So what do I do? Do you want to ask? Oh, should I be considering a...

Any type of career change? Is that a appropriate question? - Okay, okay, big heart. - All right. Yeah, 'cause this twins thing is like making me think about a lot of my life. - Yeah, true. - Yeah, because I travel so much with work and I don't wanna travel so much. - I don't wanna use the word pressure, but it does have, like it's gonna be completely different lifestyle. - Yeah. Ooh, guy on a horse, shit.

Oh, I see a devil. Is that a demon? It's a devil. Oh, Jesus. Oh, you can recognize. This is a devil. Okay, so the first one is the six of wands in reverse. The second one is the seven of swords in reverse. And the third one is the devil in reverse. So to answer a question, first of all, is no, you're not.

gonna change okay yeah so like he shouldn't change or he is not gonna change he is predicting that he won't change he won't in a year you're not gonna go anywhere you're stuck here you are gonna continue doing what you're doing right now because we can see that why you get into this industry is because you have something you want to share you have

people that maybe they are telling you you can do it and you know deep down in your heart you can do it and you know you're going to be successful or you can feel your success right now there's a there's a prediction message in the future and according to this three cards together is telling that

you know what you want to do, you know what you are going to do, and you know you can make it, then just continue doing it. Just shut up and do it. Pretty much. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Shut up and do it? Yeah. That's so true because Howie just talks a lot. He's a big talker. He never backs it up. There's an energy that either you're going to make it

Or you're going to fail, but you're not going to fail because everything you have is within you. No one is going to take it from you. It just, I wouldn't say we're making a decision. It's kind of like you're thinking about doing something else, but then you came back. And right now it's telling you to dream bigger and you could do bigger and you could do a bigger thing. It's like double down. It just, you have a desire, but it's not good. It's not bigger enough.

Interesting. That's interesting. I agree with that. I would agree with that for Howie. Because he has a dream. Oh, he does. Yeah. And he has the, I think he has the abilities. But then he's like stuck on this like middle ground where he doesn't want to gamble and risk it to achieve that dream to really push. Mm-hmm.

And so I think for him, he's in this stage right now where he's afraid to push. He's afraid of the risks. He's afraid of failing. And so that inner voice is now telling him, oh, well, maybe you should just think about something else. Do something else. Yeah, this isn't for you. You should consider just changing your career, giving up. And I think that's where he's at because he's thinking about the kids. He's thinking about security, right?

And I think he is just very scared of the risk of failing. My glasses fogging up while you're talking. They really are. They're totally fogged up. They're fogging up. Sorry. You speak right to the heart, Justin. Right to the heart. I don't know. Because I don't want to make it too clear for you. And just kind of like, I don't know if you have ever achieved the goals that you had.

No. No, then this is your chance. Okay, please give me one more card. You will die. Don't look back. Don't think about what was happening in the past. Always looking to the future and to the present moment. That's a scary card. What card is that? This is the Five of Cups. Normally, generally, it's representing a person who is grieving, right?

to what was happening in the past. - Grieving? - Yeah. - Like mourning? - Yeah. Like, look what I've lost. Look what I've done in the past and didn't give a chance to look what she has right now and to look in the future. And that's one of the explanation. - God, that is so spot on for Howie. It really is. I'm not even joking. Howie is always so fixated about regrets.

It's like, oh, I regret this. I should have done that. You know, what if I did this earlier or I started this too late? And he's always like fixated on like the woulda, coulda, shouldas of his life. And then, you know, not so much on kind of looking forward and be like, well, you know, what can you do right now? What can you do?

I don't know. I just feel he's not as optimistic. He doesn't let himself be optimistic. And he's always... Because he's always so fixated on his... What he thinks are regrets and mistakes of his past. Yeah. This is the suggestion for you. It just felt like you felt in the past...

that something could be successful but it it wasn't or you have done something that was very successful in the past and now it doesn't seem like that right now and maybe like you're thinking about you you could go somewhere else or do something else or just try something else and the card is telling you stick with it like otherwise you're gonna

actually you're gonna go somewhere else then come back yeah or like in the future i look back again and be like oh there you go yeah yeah and i don't know if you have more how many friends do you have i have one clearly clearly the cards are telling you he doesn't have many friends right yes i don't have a lot of friends i have a few so sad i'm not social um

Is that what it says? I can see that. Really? That's why I'm asking. She can see that just by meeting you without even looking at the cards. No, no, no. But this is only recent. Like I used to be like a socialite, you know, but only in the past few years I've started becoming a lot more of a hermit. Becoming a hermit. Oh yeah, totally hermit. Totally. Yeah. It's just to keep myself...

you know, and check, you know, focused. Because back in the day, my life was so like, I don't care. And I'm very free, you know, I just do whatever I want and just hang out and no, no real direction and just kind of flow. Yeah. Do whatever I like to do. But then now it's like, whoa, I wasted too much time doing that. I got to focus. So now I'm focused and I don't want to waste time. You know, everything I do has to be productive and,

Okay, so we can see the devil and then the five of cups and then we can see the hermit in reverse and the queen of swords in reverse. It's all together, right? We can just simply forget what was happening in the past, in the present moment. We can just look at the future. So it's telling me what I'm sensing right here is

Maybe you can just make a few friends in your life and it will bring you a lot of different ideas. And it will lead you to what you actually mean to be. Makes sense. We always talk about like getting out more and like networking more and just meeting new people. Yeah, it's weird because if you think about it, I mean, even when we first met, like early back in the day, I mean, we were very different.

You know, well, I mean, you've always been sort of like not as communicative, like, but like, and then if anybody, if you ever went out and be social, it's because somebody got you to come out. You know what I mean? But like, I mean, I was very social. I mean, I had a lot of things going on in terms of work and work life afterwards. But then after getting married and then really like focusing on career and realizing that I can't just like fuck around anymore.

That's when I started really like honing in on just being productive. Yeah, just different period of time. Yeah. And right now, just suggest you to go out and make some friends. What are you guys doing? You guys want to hang out next week? They don't want to be here. They don't want to be here. You guys want to hang out with me? One last card. One last card. Yeah. What's this? What was that?

魔法師 什麼是? Do you remember? 魔法師 魔法師 魔法師 What is that? What does that mean? Maybe he can translate like... 魔法師講中文啊 It's just kind of like a magician who knows he can create more things

在大的舞台上和小的舞台上。 Magician, normally 他不需要很多东西在他的身上。 When he showed up in a stage, 他都是一个人的形象, 可能有一些小的工具出现, 然后他都是变换很大的场面, 都是让人觉得, wow, bravo, oh my god, impressive, 都是这样子的。 所以, the last card is telling you that you have the ability to create more things even you didn't.

you cannot imagine right now and you can create just like don't don't overthink it and just use your gut and go with your gut yeah i feel like the magician is like uh the world is always you're always there that's a great card then yeah it's a second card it's the

The first card is the fool. The second card is magician. So it's when you were born and you have the world and you do stuff. Yeah. Basically. Wait, so, okay, Alex, Hillary, you two, you know, obviously you're friends. So do you guys like help each other out in terms of like, do you do astrology reading with Alex and do you do tarot reading with Hillary? Yeah, yeah, we do. You guys do it? We do a lot of times before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So...

- So tarot reading, like you said you were skeptical at first, right Alex? - Yes. - In the beginning, but after having done it so many times, do you really see it like helping you? - I see it helping me in the six months to a year or three months of timeframe because it's not, it's like the weather forecast. Like you can't really predict forecast of five years from now what's the weather like.

So I use it that way. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it's really, really accurate, especially talking about the things that happened recently, recent things that happened. Are you okay? I'm trying to think of who I could call to make friends again. That was awesome. That was awesome. Am I going to get to do a tarot reading? He took up all the time.

I want answers. Yeah, if you want, of course. I was nervous. You were nervous because you don't want to know the answer or you were nervous about the answer? Yeah. The kid. Then maybe next time you can, because it's the first time you've ever tried to have a rating, right? Ever. And next time you will get used to it. Okay. It's,

Very common. I would call you out. I'd be like, Hillary, do I wear my black shirt today or the blue shirt? Every decision. I'm Libra. I'm like indecisive. Okay, I'll tell you I'll make some friends.

She's like, when I told you to make some friends that did not include me. We'll call you from a restaurant and be like, Hillary, what should we order? Should I go with the tacos or the burger? Yeah, it's more intense than I would have thought it would be. Because when you're actually doing it yourself, and I was never considering the fact that you are...

you have to propose a question to ask. And usually people who are looking for help, it's going to be a serious question. It's going to be a question they care a lot about in terms of like, you know, there's going to be high stakes to the answers for them.

And I think that brings a different level of intensity to the whole thing. - Yeah, I thought it was gonna be like, I just sit here, shuffle, and then she's like, "Oh, your love life sucks." - Yeah, I thought it was gonna be like, "Ha ha, hee hee, okay, let's do like, you know." But no, you have to bring a question and then you have to really look into yourself to be like, "Oh, what am I gonna ask here?" And I don't think we, I think on a daily life, we don't really think about that as much. We kind of just go through life like our routine, right?

But when you really have to sit down and be like, okay, you have one question to ask. What are you going to ask? Yeah. Right? Just like if I had a genie in front of me, like, yeah, he was like, you have one wish. What wish is going to be like, oh, like, fuck. Like, what, you know, like, and then I think the more, I think part of the help is

Is also psychologically having to think about what you want to ask. And I think just the very act of doing that as well is helpful and therapeutic in a way. Because you really have to think about like, okay, well, what's important to you? Right? Yeah. And what's really weighing on your mind? Because often we don't take enough time out of the day to really consider that. Yeah.

And just the fact that you're saying it out loud just kind of shows your priority list almost, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Interesting. That's why a lot of time it's done one-on-one because there's no... The privacy, right? It's a private thing. Honestly, I have to do it on one-on-one because it's...

I would call it energy. Because different people have different energy. And when I'm reading the card, it's just... I have to feel the person's energy. And if someone else is... She's feeling our energy at the same time. Two of the people. Oh, so it's getting polluted by other people? I will get a little bit mixed mind. I was afraid of this situation would happen. But it just...

I just want to try. So did it make the reading tougher to do it like this on a podcast? It's just some details I'm not...

willing to speak up right now oh yeah so off air you can tell us or maybe well i think it might be it might be better like we can try again in the future yeah where it's more of a one-on-one and you know yeah if you if you want to yeah yeah what kind of setting do you usually do these readings do you like do you do it like at your home or what like what do you do work you have a studio or a studio is that the same with you alex yeah if they are in shanghai i just find the

public place to sit down together if they are outside that do zoom okay so this can be done remotely as well yeah this is much more logical than because that's a lot of psychological pressures especially the he she has to feel the presence of the other person and this is more like if you give me the wrong time that i can't do anything about it but if you give me the accurate time i can tell you most of the thing but then that's the skill of the astrologer like how much

Because the person is going to be coming from different cultural backgrounds. Like talking to someone from the Silicon Valley is going to be a whole different ballgame than talking to someone here. So that's... It's something I'm still practicing. And then if I do a reading, I will see...

description, Hoey is really good at creating stuff. And I would say, okay, which part of the chart is that deriving from? Like I need that part. A lot of the astrologers, I don't think they can say it. It's a feeling for them, which I have to reframe myself from jumping into it. Like I don't really want to base my decision on feelings because then there's no point in learning it because this whole system, the way it's set up is very logical.

Just where's the sun? Where's everything? So it's not like... Yeah, so the system in terms of Vedic astrology is not so subjective. It's more objective, like where... Like there's a formula to it. Right. And you just have to plug in the right information. Yes. And then it will tell you. Yeah. Instead of leaving it up to you and your feeling. Yeah, yes. Because then that can be very subjective and everyone's going to have a different... Yeah. You know? It's like...

It's like learning to read scriptures, right? So you need to learn alphabet. And once you learn alphabet, then you can read the scripture. Reading scripture doesn't necessarily... You don't need emotions added into it. You just got to read it. Yeah, exactly. That's pretty much what it is. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So do you feel like you have to educate people on what you do a lot or...

Do the people you serve, they kind of already know? Is it frustrating for you? It's really frustrating. Is it? Very frustrating. I normally don't really start this conversation if I don't have to start a conversation. Unless I bring out, what's your sign? Or just give them the answer if I don't feel like going into a rabbit hole. But then how do you maintain your business then? People come to me. Friends introduce friends, that type of thing. But I feel like what you guys do, you probably...

I mean, the whole 介绍, right? 我朋友介绍的, you know? 我妈介绍的, whatever, right? It's like, you definitely have more of that trust factor, you know, for people who's never done that before, you know, they'll be willing to try, right? Yeah. As opposed to like, you're on TV,

Give me a chance. Let me read your sign. It's like, that's ridiculous. No, we never done that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So there's really no kind of marketing for you guys. It's just, I haven't done it. Yeah. It would be tough, right? Because the more you market, the more people will be like,

What's, you know, it's a little fishy, but okay. Look, guys, it was amazing talking to you, doing the readings. And I think this is, at least for me, just like the first glimpse of trying to understand other ways of reading

getting answers, other ways of finding help, right? And other things to explore that may improve, you know, our situations in life and maybe just to get a little more clarity. So thank you guys. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Did you guys want to, you have a chance now to, if you want to shout out where people can find you or if you want to, is there anything you want to share? If people want to look you up or. I'm okay. Okay. Uh,

They can find Howie. Fair enough. Yeah, but no one wants to find Howie. I have no friends. Don't forget. I think I believe in fate. When time is right, something will happen. I love that. Well, cheers to that. Cheers to that. Time was right for us to meet. That's for sure. All right. Well, that was Alex and Hillary. That's it for today, guys. Feeling good. I'm Justin. And I'm Howie. All right. Be good. Be well. Peace.

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