Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
What's up, everyone? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. You can always reach us at thehonestdrink at gmail.com. And if you've been enjoying this podcast, go ahead, rate, comment, and subscribe. Now, in this episode, I sit down with a few of the guys from Golden Gloves Boxing Gym here in Shanghai. Three of them, actually. Baj, Sammy, and Nick. Baj and Nick are boxing instructors there, and Sammy is the general manager. And I'm going to be talking to them about the boxing industry.
For those of you who don't know, boxing has been a very fundamental part of my own weight loss journey. But much more than that, it's a sport that I love and it's a sport that I've been getting deeply ingrained into for the past several years.
It challenges me in ways that no other exercise I've tried can do. And in my opinion, it's one of the most complete exercises you can possibly do as a sport from your balance to your footwork to your lower body, your core, your upper body, from strength, speed, endurance, endurance.
It's so complete. And on top of that, it burns a lot of mental calories as well. And it's very deeply engaging and just a lot of fun to do. So this episode is a very boxing-oriented episode. We talk about boxing gyms, boxing as a sport, boxing culture. And we drink a lot of whiskey and talk a lot of shit. I had a blast. So without further ado, please welcome Baj, Sammy, and Nick.
We got some, we're finishing up the Avalor 12 years.
And
Truth be told, we don't know each other all that well. But my first impression of you, and you probably don't even remember this, but this was maybe almost a year ago, a while ago. I was in one of your technical sparring classes that you were heading. And my impression of you was you kind of, and I thought it was just going to be like very technical. Like, you know, you go through the moves and you practice with your partner, right?
But me and my partner, Alex, the French guy, we were kind of like going at it, like pretty intensely, pretty hard. Oh, yeah. And you were encouraging us to go even harder. Like we were punching each other pretty hard and you were like, what is here, grandma? Punch that motherfucker. So you were like really encouraging us to go after it, which is kind of rare in a technical sparring class. It's actually not like me. I try and tone it down a bit, but maybe it...
maybe when I was watching the shots that you were throwing, that maybe they weren't getting through or something. There'd have been reasons for me saying that. That's what I was wondering. I was like, is that kind of like, I was wondering if that was like kind of your philosophy towards everything. not at all. Not at all. Um, technical sparring, I'm really serious about it being technical, um,
I run them very regularly and the whole point of them is I tell people you're not there to beat each other up. You are there to isolate moves and really focus on your technique and it's a technical. It's not a free-for-all.
So kind of how did this all start, man? Like how did you come to Shanghai and just become part of a, you know, own a boxing gym and become a boxing coach? Like where did it all start? Well, I met Shane about 10 years ago. I worked out and trained and fought a few times out of the old golden gloves. Four years there. And then this new one started, offered me an opportunity to invest, put quite a bit of money in, and then I bought Sammy on board.
Who's now your boss. You work for me. Someone needs to fact check this, by the way. Like someone, you know, those people who do the Trump fact check. Sammy fucking lies. Or he's a big fan of embellishment. So how did it start? Yeah, that's what it, all it was really. I'm a big boxing enthusiast and I thought, I want to get involved a bit more than just working out actually. And, you know, it's something I'm very, very proud of. It's a fantastic community, I think.
some great characters, and I'm really proud to have actually made a mark on the city in that way, I suppose. So, Sammy, what's your role in all this? I guess friend first to these guys, mentor. Probably an entertainer. No, but on the record, I would say I'm these guys' boss for a start. I would disagree. Okay. And I'm also a shareholder. I would disagree that he's my boss, by the way. Okay, but... I am not having that. So...
Justin, a GM and a coach, which one's higher in the chain? Would you fire me, Sammy? Can you fire me? The question was aimed at Justin. Justin, can he fire me, do you think?
Look, I don't know the inner workings of Golden Gloves, but if you were to ask me, like, objectively, which is higher in the gym, is a GM or a boxing coach, I would say probably the GM. How about shareholder? As in? Oh, shareholder would trump the GM, of course. I'm also a shareholder. Well, I've got three and a half times as many shares in the gym as him. So that's where it gets complicated, guys. Not particularly. That's where it gets complicated. Not particularly. If you're talking about money talking. Oh, yeah, but if you want to go, who's more valuable? Ha ha ha!
Then how long have we got? So this is where I would argue. In China, I would think the instructor and coach would be more valuable. A good instructor and coach would be more valuable in China because they're not that easy to find here. Absolutely. And a GM, you can find a good GM pretty easily here. But can you find a GM who can find great coaches? I could replace Badge tomorrow. What do you say to that, Badge?
He's got nothing to say. This guy's a bit of a coach, isn't he? Yeah, Nick. Okay, so we got another member here we haven't introduced. Nick, who is also another boxing instructor that I've known here at Golden Gloves. Introduce yourself, Nick. Well... Come on, be serious. I'm Nick, just who came to China for fight. Actually, to turn pros. Speak closer to the mic.
uh for the fighting but right turn and then i became the coach where are you from nick i'm from georgia country georgia north u.s okay i'm coming from country georgia and here we are so well what level were you boxing at in georgia before you came so i thought i might have was back in georgia so i was trying to i was trying to find some country
Where I came to pros. So you wanted to be professional here in Shanghai? Yeah, I turned professional here in China. Oh, you did turn professional. Okay. For how long were you professional? Before, I just got a couple of fights for professionals because there wasn't a lot of opportunities for me to get a lot of fights. It was a trouble for me. Best country to turn pros is the U.S.,
For me, it's a little bit trouble to go to the US. But why is that? Why is the US the best country to turn pro? Why does everyone say that? Because I would think the competition would be so thick there that it wouldn't really be an ideal place to go. But there's a really big infrastructure in America. So at state level, for example, you've got lots of small shows. And it's just a large country. And it is, even though the Marcus Queensbury...
Those are the rules given to the name given to the rules of boxing. So modern boxing was invented in England, but by far the most professionals were in the United States and Mexico. But the United States is where they pay a little bit better. So you have more opportunities in the United States, I would say. Definitely, actually. And still it's a business, right? So it's still a lot of money. So what are you getting paid?
in US because also the US does the paper reels but I do want to go back to another point about good coaches you're just kidding like that yeah well I've got a real beamer bonnet about it so I've actually personally picked a couple of coaches to come to Golden Gloves okay I haven't said anything bad about the business it's being recorded
You've just called me a shit coach online. I'm happy to hand in my resignation this week. And then replace me, son. Replace me. He just slammed his dick on the table. What are you going to do about that, Sam? I'm happy to sack it off if you want me to leave you. All right, we'll get out of the room now. If you're that serious. How's that got to do? We're not in Golden Gloves now. This is technically the Golden Gloves event.
No, it's not. Is it, Justin? This is not sanctioned nor sponsored by Golden Gloves in any way of shape or form. As yet, Sammy hasn't hired a single coach, I think. And I brought the best one. That's a fact. Who'd you bring on? Can't say his name because he's left. Jared. And opened his own gym, which is annoying. I love Jared, yeah.
Sammy had no idea whether he was any good or not. He did bring him on. I'll give him that. And he did turn out to be very good. But we've got some exceptional coaches at Golden Gloves. Chris. You know Chris? Of course, man. I've trained there since the old days when you guys were at the old location. So I trained. I was there before you guys had your location now. Billy, of course. Yeah, I started with Billy. Since the beginning. That was Ricky. Ricky bought Billy. Ricky, Gina,
fitness coaches as well yeah
None of them appointed by our glorious GM here. You guys have some great coaches, both present and past. Some great coaches there. That's why I train there. And not only that, I think what you guys do differently than other boxing gyms is that you guys are really good at creating community around it. And that's my aim as the GM, is to bring that community there. We get a different atmosphere. I can say Sammy's made it a lot more fun.
Have you watched Dodgeball, the movie? Yeah. Average Joe's? If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball. So true. You know, Average Joe's gym is kind of what we're doing at Golden Globes, but not as pathetic as... Is it really? What's the other one? The Ben Stiller's gym. What's it called? I don't remember it. Ringside? No, no, no, no. Ringside. For those that don't know, that's another...
It's another rival gym here in Shanghai. I wouldn't say rival. I wouldn't say rival. That's off the record. Of course it should. GG's number one. So now that we're on that subject, okay.
boxing is becoming hugely popular as just a white collar workout sport. And even the sport itself is becoming a lot more popular now than in the past recent decade. And especially in China, it's picking up a lot of steam. There's a lot of new boxing gyms that are opening up here. So how do you guys kind of see that landscape growing and changing? And how do you see that competition growing?
And do you see it as competition? It's definitely competition because we're doing the same thing to varying levels of goodness, if you like. We were the first foreign-oriented one, and from us came all the rest of them, which is something to be proud of, I suppose. But also, it is much more challenging than it was a few years ago, so we have to keep on upping the game.
I can say Sammy's made a good impact in four weeks that he's been there. You know, he's done all right. It's definitely cleaner than it was. The showers are definitely a lot better. So he's like the janitor, is that what you're saying? No, not at all. I mean, he might look like one, but no, no. He does a lot more than that.
I create a community. I keep the doors open. In four weeks? And I just connect with everyone. I can connect with anyone. I can connect with a Bengali, with a Georgian, Texan over there. I do a lot in Shanghai and one of my skills is people. I think just in... Well, that's what I see a lot of the other gyms struggling with the most. There are a lot of gyms...
They focus on the location, the facility, the coaching. These are kind of the more straightforward things that you would expect out of any decent gym. But what I see a lot of the other gyms struggling the most with is the marketing aspect, the community aspect. Honestly, I haven't seen any other gym, especially boxing gym,
in Shanghai do nearly as good of a job as Golden Gloves. Why is that, though? I don't understand. I'm going to give a shout-out to Arboro because I've got good friends and I've got a lot of respect for them. I think they do a pretty good job at community.
They get involved in a lot of charity and stuff like that, as do we. We were the first ones, and that gives us a bit of an advantage. But having been there, people like Chris and our members go back like yourself, I mean, for years and years. And we've got a 75% retention rate, apparently, which is phenomenal. Yeah.
And I think a lot of it is the no ego thing, which you'll have noticed working out in there. And it is genuinely a friendly place.
I mean, like I said, I've been there from the very beginning, the very first Golden Gloves, which was, I believe, opened in 2012. Did you go to that one, Justin? The one on the top floor? No, I wasn't there. 17th floor. I was in the one last year. I attended the Golden Gloves last year. Oh, is that your first? Oh, okay. No, I didn't fight in it. The old Golden Gloves was in a...
You had to get in. There was no lighting. No, no, no. You're talking about the gym. I thought you were talking about Brawling. Oh, the original Goldwing Loves. No, no. Yeah, yeah. I was there. I was there. That's where I started off with. On top floor, that small space. No, but see, for me...
I was kind of upset when you guys moved to this new place. Because the new place is a lot bigger, a lot nicer, but a lot more white collar, right? Quote, unquote. The old one was more like a legit boxing gym. It was small. It was sweaty. It was hot. It was dirty. You know what I mean? But that's what reminded me of what a boxing gym should be. You know what I mean? I'm going to call you on that. I've been to a lot of boxing gyms around the world, as I'm sure. Even the old one.
It's fucking nice compared to... I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure. But I'm just comparing the old one to the new one now. Yeah, but a real boxing gym is going to be... Rocky. Not even that. I mean, it's a bit of a cliche, but I mean, that's what they're like. I mean, the ones my nephews go to in Walsall near Birmingham, it's like you pay £2, which is like 20 RMB, and it's got...
Kids from all different colors, but the one thing they've got in common is a low socioeconomic status, which is boxing is a sport of the poor. It's got actually a very rich literature, boxing. If you ever get into boxing writing, it's fucking brilliant. And that's why they make so many movies about it, because it's inherently so dramatic. And some of the best nonfiction writers I've read are boxing writers.
And that's part of it. Because it's the most literal form of the struggle of life. Because you're literally fighting one-on-one yourself in the ring. There's no one else helping you. You're in there by yourself, fist-to-fist, man-to-man. It's the most literal kind of depiction of life struggle, right? Absolutely. An overcoming challenge. As someone who grew up watching this book, can I just say that it's really not the kind of thing you're going to get at Golden Gloves or in most gyms in Shanghai. We're not trying to bring that up.
Oh, yeah. He's right. No, but that's what I want to lead to next is ask you is like, what is your take, especially you, Baj, like coming from more of like a rough and tumble background in terms of knowing and understanding like what a real like boxing gym should be like? Like, what do you make of all these new gyms that are sprouting up now that are more like white collar, that are more commercial? And people are, you know, it's like these group classes that, you know, like...
You know, it's not like real, real boxing, but it's boxing. But, you know, it's not... In fairness, that's how Golden Glove started. And in an environment like Shanghai, which isn't really a fight town, if you like, you need that to survive. We can't do what we do in my hometown, where you've got kids paying £2 each, 20 RMB. We need people to be playing those premium memberships. And that premium membership becomes location premium coaches, right?
and the razzmatazz, if you like. And that's how boxing's become the aforementioned popularity you mentioned. It's had a bit of a resurgence because it's kind of, if you like, it's been a bit gentrified. Yeah, big time. Yeah. But if you go to any small town in the UK, and in America, I'm sure, I don't know America very well at all, but if you go to any small town,
Taron in the UK, he'll find pretty much a world-class boxing gym anywhere. We don't really cater to that market. But what we do have, as you know yourself, is pretty damn good coaches and a bloody good environment. Sammy? I don't know what the question is anymore, Vash. I'm sort of listening to you.
I thought it was amazing. What do you see of boxing in China now in terms of boxing gyms and just even the sport as a whole? How do you see it changing and evolving in China in the near future? Boxing, like Badshed said, is a culture, right?
So you're not going to create that here, no matter what you do. You're not going to get young kids from the streets of the UK, from America, you know, paying their 20 RMB to go in and smack a bag because it just doesn't happen here. Well, you're talking about here as in Shanghai or here as in China as a whole? Just in general. I think you have a lot of underprivileged kids in China as a whole that are coming up and using fighting as a form of a way to get out.
Yeah, but it's not happening enough. That's what the UFC is relying on anyway here. Yeah, true. But it's just not happening enough yet. And I think that a lot of that comes down to encouragement, right? From your parents asking you to, you know, go and try something new rather than, you know, the same old shit. So like...
I would love to see young kids here, you know, their parents giving them a pair of boxing gloves and saying, go and fight. And usually the case is the kids decided to do it to get himself out of poverty. He's not been led by anyone to do it himself. But like you said, it is, you know, using these are ways to make money for people, right? Like Nick, you probably thought that you could make money from your fists, right? Yeah, exactly. But how has that turned out though? Because as we all know, like boxing, like no parent...
is gonna i feel like really wants their kid to go into boxing because number one obviously it's a it's a brutal brutal sport um but number two is to to really make a living off of boxing is like winning the lottery it's what sammy said as well part of its culture because surrounding countries are relatively close countries like the philippines and thailand is part of the culture
And they don't see education as a way out, rather. It's a lot more hand-to-mouth, whereas China, I think poor kids are going to end up relying more on education. If I asked you a question, if I said to you, name the three top fighting countries that you can think of, who would you say is your top three? The US, Mexico, UK. Okay.
I think like historically, are we talking historically or right now? Just, I don't know. Just say your opinion. No, no, no, but in what context? Historically. Historically, then probably the UK. Yeah. Well, actually you're right. It's a US, UK, Mexico right now with Japan, Japan,
is actually up there coming up well it's not coming up it's been there for a long time russia's right up there and you got all the surrounding countries like ukraine and everybody like in terms of actual world champions it's the us uk and mexico those are the big three with what about cuba the three biggest markets that's for sure uh cuba cubans are well i spent quite a lot of time there five years ago as you know um the cubans are
amateur boxing. Just amateur boxing. Nick probably knows a bit more about it than I do. Yeah, we know why that is because they're not allowed to fight professional. Is that right? Yeah. Because of... I mean... But their style actually doesn't transfer to the professional game. I mean, they struggle when it gets to professional game because they call... But they just also have a very small pool of people to choose from too. It's a small population over there. I mean, you're talking about Cuba versus America and Mexico. Think about all the people they have to choose from. Actually...
this is a double-edged thing. I mean, I know a fair amount about Cuban boxing having spent a bit of time there and just because I love the country. Since the revolution, the number of gold medals they've won compared to America and Britain is astonishing. I mean, I think it's north of 50 gold medals or something someone might want to check out but it is a really staggering amount. They've just...
developed a system and a science that makes superb amateur boxers. When they go over into the professional game, they struggle a little bit because their style is so defensive. So recently you had... Professional boxing in a matchup is totally different.
But their style or the way their mentality is, right? Like Rigondeaux was criticized heavily, right? For being too defensive. Yeah, everyone thought he was a genius. Erislandy Lara. Yeah, true. Loads of them, right? So what's the main difference between amateur and professional, I think? Making the leap from amateur. Like, let's say boxing the Olympics to boxing professional. Like, what's the biggest leap, you think? Biggest change? In the...
In an amateur game, it's three threes. And also, they're not trained as much to go for knockouts. Just for the listeners who don't know, three threes mean three rounds, three minutes each. It's more of a sprint. It's more of a sprint. The gloves are bigger. In one breath, you should go for three rounds non-stop. Instead of like a 10 or 12 round match. Yeah, I mean, it takes a while to explain because also...
I suppose at the beginning of a professional boxing career, I mean, I haven't boxed professionally myself, but I've grown up watching small hall shows, which is the very heart of British boxing. At the beginning of careers where you do four, six rounds, that's more like amateur boxing where it's more of a sprint, but...
I'm assuming you're talking about the big successful boxers who all have to do 12 rounds, which is very, very different to doing three-minute sprints where...
In the past, anyway, it's changed a bit now, the scoring system. But in the past, the scoring system used to be anything that connected with this part of the glove. And you'd have five judges around the ring. And if a few... I think... I can't remember the number, but if they all agreed on a...
shot being landed at the same time. All very technical, computerized scoring led to a lot of controversy. It's now gone back to more professional scoring rules, but, and the head guards have come off. They're actually trying to align professional and amateur boxing together a bit more, but that's the main thing. - To make that judgment smaller now, right? - Yeah, it's quite technical and I'm not sure it's that interesting for people who don't follow boxing. - But what is interesting, I think, for most people is probably weight loss now, right?
I think most people who are signing up for these boxing gyms are probably just looking at... When you said weight loss, then. Well, people who watch the video of this might know. Rude. I'm not fat at all. Fucking just big. But I think that's what most of the new people signing up for these boxing gyms now are probably just people looking for a good workout to lose weight.
And in my mind, there's no better... I mean, look, you guys might not know this about me. I lost 60 pounds just from starting boxing alone. 60 pounds. You got a before and after? Sure. Yeah. Bloody hell, 60 pounds. Yeah. From when I started with Billy till today, 60 pounds drop. And that's just from boxing. And it's not only because boxing obviously is a great workout all around...
But it's also just fun and interesting. It's not like going in and lifting weights or running on a treadmill where it's boring as fuck. It's kind of sports. You punch in something and it makes you at the same time excited. Exactly. It's exciting. Like the same hour, if I were to run an hour or lift an hour versus box an hour, the time that I'm boxing an hour flies by so much faster.
Because you're having like fun doing it and it's different and it's just engaging. I think also it installs a lot of confidence in people that come in. They're just normal people. They come in and all of a sudden now they know how to fucking smack someone. Not that they would, but that brings a confidence to you. Yes. I can fucking one-two you now. You see what I mean? The fact that you know you can do that, I could drop badge now from here. Yeah.
with my one but you have a different swagger when you walk down the street you have a different swagger you take it into your workplace because you know you can box it brings a different confidence you see people come into Golden Glass they come out a different person did Tammy mention where he got his one two from
he changed me to win where you get his one two from he had his one fight um a brawl on the bund and i trained sammy for that so i took him through two months of training which was dramatic i can say best brawl on the band ever i i sold a lot of tables for that yeah no surprise they're trying to get me back but i won't fight for free
for the record. Yeah, the ladies protesting a lot. A lot of people want me to fight and keep asking if I'm going to fight again. You've got to pay me. Listen, when I'm trying to make matches... I'll fight after you. When I'm trying to make matches for one of those fight nights, I think I've even asked Arai to fight. So, fucking... Don't feel that special, mate. Anyone walking into the gym, like, do you want to fight? Do you want to fight? What weight were you fighting at? 105. 105, damn. And they tried to cancel it. That's heavy. Because...
They came to my nightclub twice, two weeks before the fight. And I was drunk the first night. He keeps on doing that. And this is great. I can't say. I was on other substances. So they came in. They checked me. They said, oh, my God. This guy's fighting in two weeks. I said, no problem. I'm a gypsy. I'll tell you about that later. You're like Tyson Fury? Yeah. Yeah.
I'm a Tyson Fury guy. If I take my shirt on, I'm pure. You look like you would be part of his family. If I literally took my shirt off, it'll blow your mind. I've got 25 tattoos. So, and then the first night they came in, they thought, fuck, this guy can't fight. So they thought they'd come in the second time, second night after to double check me. And I was even more fucking drunk that night. I got a phone call. They said, Sammy, your fight's canceled. You're a fucking mess.
And, uh, yeah, I broke down to badge in, uh, in fucking tears. Oh, really? And that's when you guys bonded. Well, they're talking movie. They're talking movie. It wasn't quite, I think it was a bit like, um, so Shane, um,
went into the baron and he saw sammy as a mess and he called me up and went fucking he's not fighting he you can't even say his own name never mind fight he's not taking training seriously and this was the night before the fight no no no this not two weeks it was about two weeks it is a good story and never let the truth get in the way of good story but it was it was probably six weeks before that i do i have a decent memory of the fights i made i remember exactly where i was actually i was on yon kang lu in banya having a
actually with one of the coaches from our borough and I saw my phone it was Sammy and he was a bit upset he was like oh fuck you I've been kicked out I've sold loads of fucking tickets and now I'm going to look like the right fucking tit I've told everyone I'm fighting badge and everyone thinks I'm fucking good and he's going alright Sammy don't worry I'll sort it out so I kind of said I got on the phone to Shane and said look man he'll listen to me don't worry I'll take responsibility for him
And yeah, he came through and he did all right. I mean, he was a terrible trainer, but it was fucking funny working with him. Turn up half an hour late, smelling the cigarettes. Wait, so, okay. So what do you, what's your relationship with LeBron? Like for those who don't know, LeBron is a big, big well-known nightclub here in Shanghai. Like what do you? So I used to run the door at LeBaron. You can tell by my good looks.
So you're the door guy? I was the door guy right at the beginning. He was a doorknob. But they realized I'm a character and they moved me upstairs. And ever since then, I've been working the PR angle. And you're booking tables now? I've brought a lot of big people there, a lot of famous people there. Nice, nice. Do you know Cody Allen?
Victor? Do you know Victor? So those are the guys behind it, Cody Allen and Victor. Just because if they listen, I'm bigging them up. Those are the guys who run it, and I just worked for them for six years. I'm a loyal dog. I'm a one-club man, and I always will be in Shanghai, no matter how many people try and get me. And you're a woman man or what? I am. Yeah? Okay. So yeah, that was the story behind it. And yeah, I won my fight, no problem. There's a big American guy. They kept telling me he was an athlete.
You know in boxing, the more muscle you have, the more oxygen you need to burn it, right? Yeah. All this flab is in my benefit. Anyway, it was a good fight and I won, so I'm happy anyway. This was in the club? Yeah.
You guys got a fight? There's always a few fights in the club. Good question. No, but you, you got into this fight at the club? Or what's going on? He's talking about the bra. He's talking about the bra. Oh, he's talking about bra. Because we're jumping back and forth. I'm not... I can't do well around the fights that's happening there. Cheers. Cheers. I've actually finished my whiskey, boys. Oh, you've finished? Fuck you, man. Actually, I shouldn't say fuck you. You're a bigger drinker than any of us. That is a nice fucking drop, though, mate. It's a nice drop. Off the record. Fuck.
So where do you guys see boxing going now, though, here? Where is it going to evolve to? How big do you think it's going to get? Well, we need to widen the market at Golden Gloves. I'm not sure, actually. Do you have a statistics? How many of our members are expats and how many are locals?
let me make up a statistic I would say I would say just from being in the gym I'd say it's about I'd say it's getting more local now I don't like to use the word Chinese I like to say local but it's becoming more it's crazy it's also I was waiting for him to say oriental I want to know if it's oriental oriental
You say Chinese, right? We're in China, right? She's got to say local. You can just say chinks, man. Those fucking chinks. My wife's a chink. And my daughter. And my daughter, yeah. I would say it's about, at the beginning, it was more foreign. But, you know, the foreigners are leaving Shanghai now. So it's about 60-40. I haven't seen you there at busy times, actually. Yeah, no. Keeping the lights on, bitch. Balancing the books.
You just stick to working. Is that where you are? You just stick on your schedule that I give you every month. The one that I've been on for six years and decided myself. Just keep doing it. I'll let you know if I make any changes. Are you guys keeping up? I'm sure you guys are. Are you guys keeping up with professional boxing today? Ask Sammy about it. But I'm not going to lie. I only focus on heavyweights because that's the only interest I have. So obviously you're following Tyson Fury.
Pure, yeah, because I follow who I, you know, I've got Fury, Gypsy. He jumped on the bandwagon. Dante Wilder. Didn't jump, sorry, I've not jumped in the bag when I'm fair. Not Dante Wilder. You did. I know, I'm also a big fan of Billy Joe Saunders. Oh, Billy Joe, he's good, man. People, he gets slept on, he gets slept on a lot. Well, did you see that video of him in his Bentley? No, I didn't see that one. Which I sent to him. Okay, okay.
So there's a video of Billy Joe Saunders. He's in his car. It's disgraceful, by the way. There's a heroin addict. They're offering him heroin. And a guy walks past and they tell her, go smack the guy. And the heroin addict, of course she wants heroin. She goes and smacks the guy in the face. It's a random guy walking past. Now this is a boxer making the video, right? He got a huge fine. What was his fine, Bert?
I seriously think it was about a quarter of a million pounds. No, it wasn't. It was nowhere near that. He got told off by the British Boxing Board of Control. I don't think there was that much of a sign. Who was this? This was Billy Joel? Yeah, he's actually disgusting what he did. And he said sorry for it. I didn't see that. I didn't know about that. It was fucking wrong. A man like him shouldn't be... I mean, he should be a role model because...
I mean, he should be. I mean, he can be as naughty as he wants, but... Why does everyone have to be a role model? Well, he doesn't have to do things like that. He does not have to do things like that. That was wrong. But, okay, on this topic, I want to hear your take on what do you think of, whether it's boxing or any form of martial arts or combat sports...
What's your take on the fact that do you think it actually teaches people more discipline and to be people? Like, do you think people who are trained fighters are actually less violent? It...
White-collar boxing ain't going to teach you how to fight, man. No, no, I'm talking on the professional level, like the real level. Well, actually, if you're a professional, so in the United Kingdom, I don't know about the United States, but they're actually classed as lethal weapons. I mean, not if you do a fucking white-collar fight, it doesn't matter, but if you're a professional boxer, if you're licensed by the British Boxing Board of Control, if you've got a professional license, actually your hands are classified as lethal weapons. I know that because a boxer in my hometown killed someone by punching him.
You killed someone. No, not me. A fucking professional boxer. You might. So the theory is, no, you're not supposed to use what you learn. No, no, we all know you're not supposed to. But do you think innately, in terms of a person's character, usually people who actually understand...
the brutality and violence and discipline and can have like kind of like, because at the end of the day, what is boxing, right? What is any martial combat? It's really just like self, like body control. Yeah. It's really body control, right? Actually, I do want to hear Sammy's opinion on this because when I was growing up at university, I worked in a couple of clubs as a barman and some pubs and a late night fucking restaurant. I saw loads of fights.
And none of them were Marcus Queensbury, man. It was fucking bottles, people. You know, it don't matter if you can throw a one, two, someone fucking barreling at you from behind. Yeah, all that goes out the window. All that goes out the window. I mean, I fucking... Agreed. So I won't tell me his opinion on this. So I will tell you a story, a true story, of a woman who was wearing high heels and
Now, have you ever seen what a high heel can do to your abdomen here when it goes in? No. So it's a puncture, right? And your intestine comes out of your stomach. So when you've got a woman who's drunk trying to puncture your fucking abdomen,
And you can't use your hands. Is this you? No, this is a true story. Let's see that scar, Sammy. Let's see that scar. I've got a few scars. Actually, I mean, what was it here with the high heel? So here's my question. What would you do? There's a woman coming at you with her high heels on trying to punch you your fucking abdomen. Yeah? Yeah.
You can't use your lethal weapons. So what do you do? No, then... I'll tell you what I did later. Then, on that time, just it works reflexes to survive. You just, they're throwing bullets in front of you. Well, you can just keep keeping your distance, right? You can, if you want. But once that woman's entered my...
domain no no just yeah she's no longer a woman so what do you do what do you do one of us is going down what's wrong with you so what did i do you can't tell from the camera but i'm six foot five yeah this woman was about five foot eight now if i bring my hand down here on a woman who's trying to attack me so i just hammered her like that and smacked the top of her head and then her boyfriend joined in and i just did the same thing to him and then one of my bouncers just started doing it to him as well but
I'm going a little bit off subject now anyway, but... Was he like fucking puppet show? No, I'm a boxer. I don't care. It's not going to control me anymore when someone's trying to do that to you. I'm not going to, you know, self-control. Especially if there's no reason to do it in the first place. But why does anyone try and do that in the first place? I think, you know...
We learn boxing. Everyone says it changes you. It gives you respect and that. But if you're in a genuine environment and someone's trying to attack you, you've got the upper hand, right? Because you train. You've learned a skill. And why not use it to your advantage? Why not? If someone's trying to hurt you, absolutely use it. And I will tell anyone to use that skill to their advantage. When your life is on the scale and you can't feel it, you're feeling it. When your life is on the scale, you get it blind. You just...
Yeah. You're just getting crazy. There's no in when to do. All that goes out the window. Yeah, but I'm not saying go outside and just start smacking people because you know it's a bug. I'm still not buying that. I don't think... Because I've trained hundreds of people and I don't think it teaches you to defend yourself. If you've fucking done some white collar fights and you go to my hometown, and Tammy should know this, he's from Essex.
Yeah, fuck it all, man. He's from Georgia. I mean, man, in my country, I can count on my hand how many times I fought in Georgia, right? If you see any other people, they fought a hundred times. A lot of people fighting. People fighting to survive, right? Not me. I never fought. Boxing makes me calm.
But I mean, if you will steal a seed, like it's something like it in my life is on the scale. Well, the thing is like a boxing match is completely different than a street fight, right? That's what most people want to equate it to. Like, oh, if you can box, you can throw punches, then you'd be good in a street fight. I've punched one fucking person in my life without a glove.
But a street fight is completely different than boxing. It's completely different tactics. I'm just saying it to wind you up. It's completely different. So, you know, in a street fight, you're dealing with the environment you're in. And there's no rules. There's no rules. There's weapons. There's cars going past. And there's multiple people involved. There's multiple people. There's probably weapons like, you know, guns or fucking knives. Yeah.
Well, in my day, where I'm from, also, it was fucking glasses. They were big fans of glasses. Actually, I'm pretty sure all across the UK, you don't have glasses with handles anymore because it gives you a better purchase to whack someone over the head with. That's true. So they have a glass mug and they break it and just punch you with it? No, because if you've got a handle on your glass, you can swing it so much harder because you've got purchase on it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I saw loads of bottles flying about and stuff like that. Man, that put me off. Well, it's getting worse. It's getting a lot worse on the street now. Apparently, yeah. Apparently in the UK it's getting a lot worse. Have you guys witnessed any major street fights here in Shanghai? No.
Samuel will have seen a lot more than me, but I've got a funny story. But it's less, though. It's less than you would in the UK and the United States. I've got a funny story about this. I think it's funny anyway. The comedian here probably will. So when me and my mate first got out here, Far East, actually we're in Taiwan for you. Anyway, so we saw an altercation a couple of hundred meters away. And growing up on old movies, we fought everyone in China.
Great. We thought everyone in China was going to be a martial arts expert. So me and my mate, we ran fucking 200 meters to witness this street fight thinking it was going to be Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan shit. Yeah.
And of course, anyone who's seen a street fight in China, the reality is a lot more windmilling and umbrellas and hair shots and stuff like that. So, I mean... Well, it's more a numbers game here. They'll get their crew, they'll get their shundi. No, no, no. This was one of those comedy fights. This was one of those comedy fights where... And it was fucking loads of windmilling and people missing. And it was more of a tickling contest than anything else.
couldn't believe it big pause big pause then satirisation yeah have I seen no I haven't seen that I actually broke one up on a metro once that was a school teacher in me I saw two kids fighting on a playground and I thought just pack it and everyone else was kind of sat around gawping and I got in the middle of him and I'm like stop that yeah I've seen I've seen a few fights here in Shanghai but
Not nearly as many as I would in the United States, like growing up there. Whereabouts are you from in the States? I'm from New York. Oh, really? Or New Jersey. I grew up in New Jersey, but then moved to New York after. Shit's airport in New Jersey, isn't it? Yeah. Well, no, New Jersey is a lovely place. No, the airport. The airport. Oh, the airport. Newark? Newark, that's it. Yeah. I flew to San Diego from Newark. Yeah, well, Newark is a shithole. Newark is a shithole.
I'm sure the city's nice, yeah. Do they let you into America a badge? Do you get any problems? This is...
It's a bit of dog whistle racism for any of you Trump fans out there. No, they actually, everyone was winding me up about them letting me into America last year. Actually, 2018. Well, you got stopped? No, no, no. Justin, ask Spadge what his surname is. My surname is Islam, but I got to, I think it was JFK, and spoke to the officer at the desk. And he just let me through. And I was like, what, is that it?
So I thought, and I've seen Harold and Kumar go to Guantanamo. I thought I was going to get some more treatment. I mean, obviously they've fucking vetted me, didn't they? Well, because you're darker skinned. And my second name's Islam.
And my middle name's ISIS. No, I'm joking. What's your heritage from? Bengali, Bangladeshi. Okay. Great food. Great food. Yes, great food, yeah. And my second name's Islam. I mean, obviously, drinking whiskey here, I don't... I'm not particularly observant, but...
Yeah, so I was a bit nervous about going to America, but no, absolutely no issues at all. Let me straight through, no worries. I almost actually went back and said, fuck yeah, give me a bit of grief, man. The US ain't got no grief with Indians, man, with India or the UK. No, but I mean, they look the same to you. But you've got a British passport, right? Yeah.
I got stopped. I got stopped at immigration in the US before. I was born in England, you knob. Yeah, so you're not Bengali. But I got stopped there. Where did you get stopped, Justin? I don't know why I got stopped, but I got stopped. In America? Yeah, and I got held in a detention room for a little bit. Got extra questioning. All that, yeah. What for? I don't know. Which way does the questioning go, though? What?
Well, no, they were asking me like why I was there, how long I was staying here. And their tactic is they would repeat the questions over and over again. Because if you're lying, they're betting on that you're going to misremember a lot of the details you're lying about. And that you would say like, so for example, they would ask me like when my departure flight was like out of there. Like, do you have a ticket home out of the US? I'd be like, yes, it's on this and this date. It's this and this flight at this and this time.
And then they would ask me other questions. This is in the US? Yeah. And a few questions later, and then a few questions later, they would ask me the same question again. When is your flight home? What date is it? What flight number? And then a few questions there, they would ask it again, hoping that you would eventually trip up on some of the details and be like, wait a minute, I thought you said your flight was at 2.30. Why are you saying it's at 6 o'clock now? You know what I mean? So they kept asking me over and over again the same questions in rotation.
And hoping, I think, hoping that would trip up on the details. But you're an American, right? No, I'm not an American. Oh, really? No, I'm not an American. Oh, I don't know. Where are you from? I have a Hong Kong passport. Oh, okay. Sorry. I was born in Hong Kong. So I'm not an American. But you have an American accent, right?
Yeah, I grew up there. And the whole demeanor as well is American. Yeah. Completely. So they were very confused because they saw me with a Hong Kong passport, Chinese passport basically, right? And they were talking to me as if I was a foreigner. But then when I would talk to them, I'm talking to them like I'm talking to you now, right? And they're like, uh... And they were just like, they didn't really know what to do with me. And then they literally, they straight up asked me, why is your English so good? They straight up asked me that.
And I'm like, because I went to school here. I can't imagine they're very educated, those guys. No, no, no. But it's like they try to catch you. Yeah. And they try to catch you on a lot of things. But what are they trying to catch? They're not very friendly about it. What do they think you are? Who knows? I don't know. You know all the tension between here and the US right now. I don't know. I don't know what the fuck. I don't know what's going through their mind, nor do they bother to ask. I'm just happy to get out of there.
You know what I'm saying? I don't know. Not Vince America. At least you can get in, right? This guy can't. But boxing goes forward. Georgia, I would think you would have even a tougher time, no? I don't know. Have you ever tried to go to the US? No. You guys don't need to go. I liked it, man. I thought it was great. I had a great time. It's a great place to grow up. That's for sure. It's a great place to grow up. What was the question again? There was no question. We got completely off track.
But, okay, let me ask you this then. Who do you guys think is pound for pound right now? Pound for pound. Who do you have? Historically or... Oh, now. Oh, no, okay. Let's go now and then let's go historically. Historically...
No, that's a whole different conversation because you have to go across eras. But right now, let's say right now. Pound for pound, any weight division. Yeah, that's what pound for pound means. That's what pound for pound means. Gym of a boxing gym. Thank you very much. Pound for pound means. Do you know who that term was invented for, by the way? No. Sugar Ray Robinson.
That's funny because historically I would have him pound for man best. But anyway, go on. But that's who he was invented for because he was so good they couldn't figure out a way of saying he was the best in the world. So who's a pound for pound, Sammy? Right now, who would you have number one pound for man? I'm trying to think of his name. The ginger one. Canelo? Yeah. Canelo Alvarez? Yeah, that's my guy. Okay.
okay go on then badge going off a resume it's a strong argument going just purely off a resume he's not my pound for pound but tell me what you think you can't argue against his resume i'm speaking for the normal people out there not the fucking nerds like you badge what do you mean normal people the ones that like generally have an interest in boxing don't like wank over stats and
If I'm watching a fight, I want to watch the most entertaining people, the most interesting people. He's the best football team in the world. That's why a lot of people watch boxing for the excitement. So that guy brings a lot of excitement. The same as Fury brings a lot of excitement. But if you ask any boxing fan, I don't know what level you can call a boxing fan, when do you become a boxing fan? Whether you just watch it or...
you know like bad study the stats you know watch refines no I don't I just watch it's what I'm just asking you why you think an LO is the best because I find him very entertaining to watch you're getting very annoyed at really simple questions who's furious code no what the what are you being a twerp for what's his question for what's his question for
Why do you think Canelo is best? Oh, I don't get technical about it. Not a technical question, mate. Do you masturbate over that? I think I masturbate. So let's get really childish when we can't answer a simple question. Why is Canelo the best? That's a simple question. Because I find him very entertaining. Right, good shit answer. Well, entertaining is not an argument for pound for pound. Of course it's not. All right.
You tell me yours, Justin. Who's the most entertaining fighter in the world? Okay, so entertaining is a different story, right? My most entertaining guy that I've ever watched box is... Can you imagine, you know, for me, I'm a young guy. I'm not old.
watching this massive fat you gotta guess I'm gonna talk about okay you're probably gonna guess it straight away so when I'm a young kid I see this guy get into a ring he's fucking fat like humongously overweight butter bean butter bean
oh hell yeah he's wearing an american fucking shirt hell yeah butterbean you're a kid and you're watching this fucking guy box yeah and you're thinking that was a spectacle that's like watching the circus five rounds max but this guy would just batter you and that's what i was out of this world he was out of this world no but butterbean can box dude but i was thinking box you can only box about five rounds yeah yeah yeah but he had some skill he had some skill
How can someone get a good angle on a picture? What are you guys doing after? I've got some bets on that I need to go watch. Are you going to Liberon? Is that popping today? Yeah, it will be. You want to come for a drink? Are you guys going? Yeah, I will take you there. I'm going to Beverly, I think, aren't we? Do you want a drink?
I don't know. Where were you guys planning to go? Don't make me change your plans. Le Baron. You guys were going to go? What me and Sammy do sometimes, which I quite like, is we go to Beverly on top of Le Baron, have a couple of drinks, and then we go to an old man pub, which I really like. Why were it... So, you know, we're in the best nightclub in Shanghai, and all I like to do now... What's your favourite club, Justin? I just like to play... It used to be the Bay. What's your favourite, Justin? LAUGHTER
No, what's your favorite? I'm serious. No, no, no. I love LeBron. I've always been a fan of LeBron. Even in the beginning, all my friends were talking shit about the place. I'm like, I love LeBron. Who are these people? And I thought they played the best music. For sure. We're the best club in Shanghai. And what is so great about LeBron is it's accessible to anyone. Inside. Once you're inside... What do you mean once you're inside? How do you get inside, though? Once you're inside, we have...
If you know Sammy, it's very accessible. You can rub shoulders with anyone in Le Baron. That's what I fucking love about it. You can be sitting in there. If you're lucky enough to get in, you're going to know the right people. Then you can be in there and you don't know who you're going to meet in there. You don't know who you're going to get contact with. You don't know who you're going to fuck. It's a great place. It's Joe listening to this. No, but I'm not saying... That's just so terrible.
I'm just saying. He was meant to be winding me up today, by the way. Am I still winning? Is your missus still angry with you? She's always angry with me. Yeah. His girlfriend's about 10 years younger than him. Oh, really? Good job, shit. Back of the net. Anyway, so we can go for a drink at Le Barre. Absolutely. You can be my guest. All right. All right. Do you want to talk about anything else?
um how often do you wash your towels my towels hotel towels i'm a cook i'm a cook wife of a man so he doesn't wash his towels who's the best lord i pay someone to wash rings dunch or flies all right cheers guys cheers
Cheers, boys. It was very informative. Nick, I learned a lot from you. Yeah, Nick, you need to learn to talk less. You talk way too much. I've got a serious question for Nick. Is it true in Eastern European countries that you can't be happy? We can't be happy? Yeah, like when you meet people. No, we're always happy. What the fuck was that? No, so like a few Russian bouncers I've met, they say like it's in their culture. Not that I'm saying you're Russian, Nick, but.
They never smile when they meet someone. No. Or maybe he was just miserable. Well, he didn't like us when we met him first, did he? Remember? Yeah. We both didn't like this wanker, did we? Do you remember? We weren't friends at all. It's because I had a go at him on a group chat and he didn't like me for a while and he tried to intimidate Sammy before his fight. Do you remember? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, look at him, look at him. Get the camera on him, get the camera on him. We thought he was a right prick.
I felt like me and Nick hit it off the first time we saw each other. We were the first family, right? Cool. Hi, everybody. I'm Nick. He's like that Simpsons character, like that doctor. Hey, everybody. Let's do boxing, everybody. Let's do boxing. Do you know what he's talking about? I punch you, you punch me. Hi, everybody. It's no problem.
Anyway guys it was um it was a pleasure having you guys on it was a fun conversation like we got to do this next time even more often because like I don't I don't have too many people I can talk boxing with you know I mean I Can be a big I can bring a lot of people here. Yeah you guys you guys whenever you guys want to come back on Just let me know when when something for his coach I could come on as a co-host I
Sort of. You know what we can do? You know how Joe Rogan has a fight companion? They watch fights together and they have the podcast as they watch the fights? We can do that. We can do that. We can watch fights together and we can just be on air as we're watching. Do you want to watch fights with me or Sammy? You did dodge my question though. All of you guys. I think I should come back on as sort of in a guest role, as a guest appearance. Yeah. What? Keep the doors open. What are you looking for? I don't know. I don't know.
Day by day. Sexy. Something sexy. I'll bring something sexy, baby. All right, guys. Cheers. Cheers. Love you guys. Dasami, Baj, Nick. There you go. Justin, thank you for having us. Cheers, everybody. Cheers, everybody. All right, guys. Nice. Peace.
Please get locked in.