Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
What's up, everybody? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. You can always reach us at thehonestdrink at gmail.com, Instagram, or WeChat. Details are in the description below. And if you've been enjoying this podcast, go ahead, rate, comment, and subscribe.
All right, today's episode is me, Eric, and Howie. We are reunited at last, and we talk today about stripping away those things that you don't need and getting down to the core essentials of your life, right? What are the things that you absolutely have to have and what are those that you actually don't, but you might think you do?
So we talk about our relationship with technology. We talk about living in a big city and what it is that we absolutely need to survive. And what are those other things that might just be causing us stress and anxiety, that might just be taking up our time, taking up our energy, and that we just don't really need. And we apply this same thought experiment later on in the episode to our work schedules.
You know, a lot of people might think that they're stuck in their jobs or their responsibilities at work. They're stuck in their routine and that there's just no possible way they can possibly squeeze in a hobby, a passion project, or just any sort of activity that gives them some joy and happiness.
And we question that notion. It might not be true. There might be a lot more options than we realize if we just take the time and make the effort to kind of reexamine what it is in our lives that we absolutely have to have and what it is that we don't. And the idea of letting go. There are a lot of things that we can let go of, but it's just really tough to do. But we can do it.
So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy. It's The Honest Drink, and here we go. I love you.
Well, can I share one quick thing? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. When we came together for the show, I mean, it's been a couple months since I've been on, so welcome back to myself. He's welcoming himself back. No, it's good to be on. I'm glad that this... I'm kind of like looking at the seat and it seems like it's still...
the same height when I left it. I think you have a fan club now. Do I? There have been people on the comments, like asking about you and people like, I love you, Eric. I'm skeptical because they can't even tell the difference. They literally don't even know. They're just like randomly. They just call all three of us, Eric. It's just random. But I was just looking at our values, right? And given all that's happened this year and what's happened recently, I thought,
you know, we could just revisit these things. But it still rings really true to me. There are three things that we wrote down as our values for coming together for the Honest Drink. And one was to become closer as friends, which I think is super duper important. And then second is learn and grow from our conversations. And then three is have fun and enjoy the experience. Woohoo!
Okay. Yeah. Anyways, I just wanted to read those out loud. Thank you for sharing. Just so we'd remember. Okay. Because we haven't come together. But I feel like the first value we failed. No. Become closer as friends. We are here. We're farther apart than we know. Yeah. You're here after like a few months of not being here. Yeah. And it's not even like you told us like, hey, I'm not going to, I can't make the show. I'm going to be busy. Like you were just like, MIA. Like you just vanished. Calling you out. Okay. I'll drink to that. I mean,
I think you need a penalty drink for that, maybe. Yeah, for sure. I feel bad. I feel bad. All along, now I kind of had empathy for Howie because we used to give him shit. We'd be like, oh, you fucking just piece of shit. You trash. Like, oh, no, I got to shoot this thing. I'm so busy at work. I'm like, you're a fucking piece of shit. So what's been keeping you so busy? Work. Work? Mm-hmm. The new iPhone's coming out, right? Yeah. iPhone 12? It already did. Already did, right? So is it available now?
Yeah. It's available. It's available? I'm just asking. I'm asking a question. I mean, just a normal question. I'm in the market for a new phone. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You really can't say anything, can you? Not much. I mean, nothing of value. Nothing that would be interesting to anyone.
But you want a new one. You have the SE right now. Yeah. And you said that you wanted to get out of your comfort zone. At some point, you're going to get out of your comfort zone because you have been used to the Touch ID, right? No, the home button. Yeah. The home, the little circle button. Yeah. Like if that button wasn't there, I would have no idea how to use the phone. Are you serious? Yeah. I don't know. So he was like, he's scared. So he literally like, he's like when the SE came out. Yeah, look.
So this looks like my old phone, but this is actually a new phone. This is the new SE. Right, right. So the reason why I got it was because it works just like the old phone does, like the old iPhone 6, right? Except it has the new software, it has the new chip.
and new camera. So it's got all the goodies that I would want for me, but it has the familiarity of the old phone. Like it's like you bought the same exact model of a car, but it's like upgraded. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But everything in terms of like how you use it is the same. Like if you were to move to one without a home button, then you'd be lost. Right. Yeah. I think like, I wouldn't even know how to turn on the phone. Like I wouldn't know like how to get into the phone. And this, this makes total sense. I think, um,
If you know Justin, and if you don't, here's a little tidbit about him. Him and technology don't mix. He touches anything, it just breaks. And he has a history of that.
Yeah, I'm cursed. I'm literally cursed with technology from a young age. And it's like kind of funny, like, ha, ha, ha, you're cursed. No, I really am cursed with technology. There's some sort of technology demon that's been following me around since I was a kid. Is that the third glass or the second glass? That was your first glass. Sorry, the first glass. What the? Whoa. Are you tipsy? No. Are you drunk already? No. That was just your first glass. You thought that was your third glass? Never mind. Never mind.
Okay. Okay. Wow. That's all I'm going to say is wow. Two months off the show, I don't even remember how to drink anymore. No, but when I was young, you know, when you used to write papers for school, like I would be like in the middle of a paper that I've stayed all night writing and my computer would just crash and I would have to start from zero again. Shit like that. Shit that doesn't happen to anybody else that would happen to technology. Like weird things where I would find people
who are very versed in technology and they would be like, what is this? This problem has never occurred. And they would have no idea how to problem solve. I remember and I used to doubt you.
Until I witnessed it in person when we're doing rocks and opening stores. And then the computer is working fine. And all of a sudden, you're like, okay, well, let me check on blah, blah, blah. Everything just goes down. What the hell did you just do? You're like, I don't know. You just go near a computer and it just goes down. Yeah. So that's your curse. It is a curse. And I don't blame you for using an old phone, not being able to move on. You're afraid if you...
adopt like a technology that's significantly different than there will be issues, right? 'Cause you finally found something that works for you. - Yeah, exactly. - Right? - Exactly. - And then you're kind of like the curse, 'cause like you went through multiple iterations of this phone, everything. Now it's like all smoothed out. You're afraid that the curse is gonna hit once you adopt like a new technology.
Well, also because of my experiences when I was younger, I just don't like relying too much on technology. You know, I don't want my life to be dependent around technology, not for any sort of like noble cause or like I feel like, oh, I'm just like better or, you know, nothing like that. It's just...
I just don't really trust technology in the way that it would work for me. Like I don't trust it, not because of any sort of privacy or any like, you know, like kind of malicious kind of a conspiracy theory or anything like that. It's more about like, I just know technology around me breaks down.
Hey, can I ask you something? I can't rely on it. You being so anti-technology, but... It's not anti. Like, I love technology. I wish I could use it just like normal people. But it kind of goes along with you and social media as well because you don't really use social media that much. No. That's different, though. But it kind of goes with Justin as a character, right? Yeah.
But the social media stuff is more like the self-expression and some of that stuff. The technology, I think it's a different, like, I feel like you don't want to rely on it too much because you have a history of it letting you down, like at key critical moments. Exactly. Like I get the social media stuff. That's a whole other topic that we've had conversations about.
But technology is like, people rely on it so much, like it's almost indispensable. But the more you use it and the more you value it, the more dependent on it. And if it does fail on you and because of your curse, then it's like, it's catastrophic, right? Yeah. If it lets you down. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I'm going to say something really hypocritical of me because I rely on technology in all facets of my life, which most of us do who live in cities for sure. But I just feel like that's,
that's a dangerous direction that kind of society as a whole kind of heads towards. Like we don't really have any survival skills anymore. Like we're soft as humans. Like we're soft. Like only like a small, small percentage of people on this earth, if you were to pick them up, drop them in the middle of the wilderness, would they be able to like get by? Right? Yeah.
But any of us, I would assume if you were to drop us in the middle of the wilderness, we would die instantly. We're weak. We would be eaten. We would go hungry, go cold. We wouldn't know how to survive. We have lost our abilities and skills as an actual species.
Right. Like we're so specialized, like, okay, if you're an accountant, you can do certain things, but they're so abstracted in the world of like, you know, human sort of enterprise. But in terms of actually functioning as a living creature on this earth, we have like no skills. Like, like,
You know what I'm saying? Like we order from Ulama. That's like, it's so abstracted now. Like there's layers and layers and layers of technology, like of people who do things where we're just like pressing buttons. Well, it's also like a double-edged knife, right? Because like at Ulama,
on one hand, it's a testament to how much humanity has progressed, that we have these things, that we have all this technology. We can order things on Ulama, right? That we have these jobs where it's so like detailed and specific towards certain sets of skills that are related to technological advancements.
But then at the other hand, we're complaining because it's like, oh, well, we're getting softer. Our survival skills are lower. Like we're not like in tune with the natural world anymore as much. So it's like, like can two things co- can these two that kind of coexist at the same time? Well, I think-
You questioning that and like even saying that, you know, are we getting softer and stuff like that? It's only because you're stopping to think about it. But for the general public, I think they're just in it, you know. You know, the general person is probably totally fine just living their life, ordering their ulema or, you know, ordering the taobao.
you know, everything delivered to their home, you know, 叫个车,没问题, you know what I mean? Like everything is just so convenient, you know, even social media, calling somebody, texting somebody. But we're losing touch. Well, city folk, right? I think most of us and most of the population does live in cities, but we're talking, we're generalizing about city folk, right? Like I have friends, a few friends,
from America and I have one that lives in Arizona and he is very much kind of more of like an outdoorsy kind of guy. He rides horses and yeah, and he's like, well obviously he's like part of the modern world, but he's also very in tune with like having to unplug himself. And he has like a ranch that has like no reception, no cell phone reception, no nothing. He goes out to the ranch and just rides his horses.
you know, talks to his buddies, like, and just spends time there. And that is a conscious effort to kind of just like unplug and be like, kind of like a man's man. And like, like, you know, he made that choice. He made that choice. It's not the product. He's not a product of the environment, but he tends to his land. You know, he, he's like, he does the heavy lifting by himself. Like he's, you know, he's living on his own and off of the land on his own. Why has he ever told you? I think he just, he just enjoys it. He just finds peace in that.
Like he came a while ago to come and visit me in Shanghai. Wait, who? My friend Adam. Oh, I met Adam. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? Yeah, he lives on a ranch, right? Yeah. He got like horses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was a lawyer, right? He's a lawyer. But his passion is like tending to his horses and being like a ranch, running his ranch, right? So like he came to visit in Shanghai and one thing he said to me was like, he's like, I don't know how you do it.
I don't know how you live here. Right. And then I said the same thing to him at the time. I'm like, you know, because I'm so used to living in the city. If you take me out of this city, I won't be able to get by as much. And I'm like, I don't know how you live out there. Like you have no delivery services. Like you're kind of like, you know, receptions, like you're in the middle of nowhere, kind of like, like, I don't know how you do it. Right. And we're like,
And like, we've grown up with each other for so long. We know each other very well, but it's just like, in many ways we're like almost the same person, but in many ways now we're like so different. And we were talking about that. We were talking about like how different we have become over time due to like our, our, our environment, you know? Yeah. And the choices we make, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so that, that's interesting. Um,
So what are our basic needs? Like, like forget about like city or like living in like, like, like a ranch or something like that. Although that, I mean, that's, it's, it's, that's really idyllic, right? But like, what are our basic needs? Like if we had to basically live from scratch, what are the things that we would have to be able to do? Living from scratch? Like just being able to live off the earth.
Well, feed yourself, right? Right. So food. Number one, yeah. Food. Food, shelter. Shelter. What else? Defense. Protect yourself, I guess. Security. Yeah. From predators or... Yeah, security. Okay. I don't know. Like toilet paper. You don't need that. I mean, like... Like hygiene. You can throw that out of the hygiene. Like Adam's not wiping his... Like I'm saying like...
A compromise, right? Like we're not living as a caveman. Oh, okay. So you mean realistically, not literally. Realistically. I thought you meant literally. Well, a mix. But you would need like toilet paper and stuff like toiletries and stuff, right? Like shampoo. No, you don't need that literally to survive. I mean, but like if we're talking about quote unquote survive. Okay. General cleanliness, you would need something. Hygiene. Yeah. Hygiene. Right. What else? What else? Light. Light.
Well, that's electricity. Like heat. You need heat. But that goes... To me, that falls under shelter. Okay, shelter. Okay. Does that fall under the shelter umbrella? Yeah. Kind of protection from the elements? The reason I'm asking is I'm trying to assess...
Like how far we are from... How far away we are from it. From that. And also, there's got to be something about, like you said, being in tune with the natural world. There has to be something with being in tune with the natural world that allows you to derive satisfaction because that's how we've always lived. Like we're not meant to necessarily be in cities. We're not meant to do like podcast. The element of a podcast that we're meant to do is human connection. Yes. And we've adapted that. Sharing stories. So I'm trying to like...
answer two questions. One is like, what are the fundamental elements that we're so not self-sufficient anymore and how close are we to be able to get there? Because I'm curious about that. And then I guess number two is what are the things that we find meaningful as human beings? Or what are the things that are excessive that we can strip away from our daily lives, right? That we don't really need at all. Right, right.
So food, shelter, you need some kind of communication. Like, I mean, because if you're remote out there, the rest of the village and the tribe aren't going to be there. So you probably need internet, but like not in the sense of like massive consumption, just like if you had internet for FaceTime or something like that.
Okay. Right? Yeah. Like basic communication. Basic communication. Social interaction is... Social interaction. Yeah. That's something that we need. Yeah. Right. As human beings. Or like Tom Hanks and like Wilson, like the Wilson volleyball, right? Yeah. Okay. We don't want that to happen. No, we don't. Clothes. That's the worst case scenario. Clothes. You need clothes. Yes. Yeah. Does that fall under the shelter kind of thing? Oh, just being more specific. Clothes. Okay. Clothes. Because shelter is like the... Because you can build a house...
Right? Like people build their own log cabins or whatever it is. They build their own ranch. But it's also like degrees, right? So when we say shelter, when we say clothes, when we say these things, it's like there are degrees to that because like you need basic shelter to survive. You don't need a mansion. You don't need like a 10-room mansion, right? Right. You don't need that. Yeah.
um when you talk about clothes you need basic clothes to wear but you don't need a whole wardrobe of like high-end fashion designers shit right like you need undies i mean like there's certain things that you need you know you don't technically need you don't technically need underwear but i'm just saying but yeah these are categories like how far how deep you go we could talk about that's like a you know a double click into it right so clothes um books
Right? Well, okay. I don't think you need butts. So I think it's about... Because everyone's a little different. I think it's about what are the forms of entertainment or forms of...
Things that you can put your focus on. Like, for example, for your friend, Adam, he's focusing on horses. And there's this sort of something to do. Activity. Activity or responsibility or something like that. So whether your activity is reading books or your activity is farming or... You need some sort of activity. Something to do. So back to your point, right? So it's kind of like...
What is the minimum amount of stuff like you would need to be able to be like happy and secure for, let's say, a couple of months at a time? We're not saying we're going to leave Shanghai and move to like Jiangsu or
You know what I'm saying? We're not, that's not what we're saying, but what we're saying is that is there stuff that we have now? There's so much stuff. It's complicating our lives and it's, it's noise to us. And if we strip things down a little bit, we'd be happier. So should we, maybe should we approach it like this? Let's just start like naming the things, identifying the things that we could strip away from our daily lives and keeping our basic quality of life relatively the same. That's another way to look at it as well. Yeah. Yeah.
Because I also feel like through this conversation, we'll also be able to pick out certain things that we get caught up on. Well, essential versus non-essential. Okay. So let me ask you this, right? Could you do without... And let's just say for one month at a time, because we're not like freaking Robinson Crusoe's, right? I mean, we're kind of like it's a thought experiment, but I think we'd like to kind of be more self-sufficient, et cetera. But like...
Are we going to become like... Are there people way more extreme than Adam too? No, for sure. For sure. He's not extreme at all. It's kind of like essential versus non-essential. Okay. So let's say like food and cooking, right? No access to food grocery delivery services or yes, access to food grocery delivery services. So are we talking about like essential or just quality of life? Like...
Something you could do for a month and be happy with your life. Then I would say no.
you don't that's not essential for a month yeah because i think you need to go beyond that because it's like okay well are you living off of for example a farm and you're growing your own produce because if that's the case then i'm not going to need well what's actually implementable i'm just like assuming we don't leave our apartments and we still live in our apartments what what are some things that we could do differently like not going to any restaurant for a month and not ordering okay so we're still living here in shanghai in the city what could we take away right yeah this will be more relatable to people right yeah um
So no eating out for a month. 你去菜市场啊。
You buy some fresh veggies and produce. So I was in Qingpu earlier today, and we were driving by just some random road, and there was all of these noming with their actual fresh produce on the ground. And we were only one kilometer away from the fucking Sam's Club that was causing massive fucking traffic. So then we had to take a detour because everyone was trying to turn into or leave the Sam's Club, and then the light got stuck.
So then we took a detour and then we drove by like about 15 Nong Ming that just had their veggies on the ground. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's crazy. Like within one kilometer, you have like the most, you know, mass consumerism. And then you just have some like Nong Ming with their shit there. Yeah. You know? And you, and you probably taste good. You know, it's probably really fresh. Well, I mean, yeah, I don't know.
You know, it's debatable because like it's right on the road and there's just like dust and dirt and like all the cars are driving by. So there's shit's probably all fucking dirty and shit. It's so hard because once you, once you frame it like that, when we, where we like you put ourselves in the city, like I feel like the very, the very fact that you live in a city forces you to have to live with certain structures and certain, um,
privileges and I mean, I don't know if we call it a privilege, but certain things that you have to kind of buy into. Otherwise, how do you like, for example, access to groceries? Like if you live in a city, if you live in a city, there's no way you're going to be hunting wild animals in the city for your food. So if you want to eat, you have to have some sort of access to groceries. And the only access here are kind of commercial stores, you know? Well, here's the thing, right?
What we can say is like we can designate the categories and then within each category, we can have different levels. So like for instance, like the most, I guess, modern technologically dependent method would be like going onto your phone, right? You're so completely disintermediated from everything. And you go to like 叮咚买菜.
And so like you have no connection with the people that produce the stuff, right? That's like level one.
You could walk downstairs and then go to the grocery store, but at least you're like going to the place that purchases from the place. Or you could actually go to the 菜市场 or you could just go out to the middle of the road in 新埠, you know, one mile from the actual farm and get the stuff. Like there's different levels, right? But like building out the different categories, then you can build a gradual approach because you're not going to go from like living in the city and high rise to like killing your own chicken.
Like that's not meaningful, right? Because it's too difficult of a problem. But what we're saying is, are there changes we can make to our life to be more essential and strip out some things that are not necessary? You know what I'm saying? I mean, cooking at home is like one thing. Like I used to eat out a lot and now Ann will, you know, make food at home, right? So that's already like a good start. But to me, like that's a debatable thing. Like what is the real benefit of,
of cooking at home, right? At the end of the day, right? Like, you know, a lot of people say like, "Oh, you should cook at home." And I used to cook at home all the time. Like I'm a true believer in that, but it gets me thinking like, why are we so on the whole cooking at home train? Like, why do we jump on that train? Like what positive impact is that really creating for us or for society? Like what is it at the end of the day? - Okay, one of the benefits
for someone like myself who doesn't really cook is like, it's different for you, I think, because you have the skill, right? Like, but this gratitude. So like a lot of times when I eat, um,
There's a lot of anxiety because like I'll go on an app or I'll like, you know, I'll think about all the restaurant choices in Shanghai. And I just start getting like a lot of like anxiety over like there's so many fucking choices. And I'm trying to hyper optimize like, oh, I want the best fucking this, best fucking that. You get anxiety about eating out? Well, I mean, like how many times have you even gone to a restaurant and then like not known what to order?
Right? Everyone has that problem, right? And then how many times have you been with a group of friends like, hey, what should we eat? Like, I don't know. Right? And so like this infinite number of choices actually causes us to be like indecisive and sort of, you know, it causes like... The paradox of choice. Yeah, the paradox of choice, right? It causes us to be less happy. But imagine like if you were, you know, on your own farm, like you know what you...
would be able to get from the ground, right? You know what animals and you would cook like in your, and you would enjoy the meal like a lot more. Well, I agree that you would know clearly what's going in. You would have full control as almost like almost full control of what is going into your meal. So from just a transparency perspective of what's going into the food you're eating, I agree. Cause at a restaurant you don't really know, right?
But I'm talking about it from just like a general happiness level because I'm almost the exact opposite because I'm always eating at home. So I'm not always cooking. I'm ordering delivery a lot, but I'm always eating at home and that's the problem. I'm eating alone at home and
And now it's like, for me, I see it as a positive thing if I can go out to a restaurant and eat because I can engage with the world, I can socialize with people, right? I can connect and talk and meet people. Whereas every day I'm at home eating by myself.
And over time, to me, I see it as a very unhealthy thing to do. You know what I mean? So I'm thinking, well, so what's the real benefit of... Everyone's saying, oh, we should eat at home, cook at home, do that. But I'm thinking, I see it as the opposite. I'm like, it's good to go out and go to restaurants and meet people and talk to people and interact with people on top of supporting the economy, I guess. But like...
So I see it in a different way based on my personal experience. Yeah, I think that's a great point. It's coming at it from different angles, right? Like if you're someone that's eating at restaurants all the time, then you kind of like, okay, this is causing a lot of stress, like choosing different restaurants. But see, I don't think it's causing stress for everybody. I think it's only stressful for you.
There's so many choices out there and then you get greedy. We're spoiled. Exactly. We're spoiled. Like every fucking meal. But is that stress though? Is that anxiety? What do you want to call stress? Or you just basically you're creating negative emotion because you're greedy and you know,
you're not truly grateful. And I would say ordering at home is the same thing. It's no different. Like I get what your point on the social interaction, but that's another thing, right? But it's like we're greedy and we have access to everything, so we're never satisfied. I think that's what I'm trying to say. Okay.
Yeah, I think if you ever went to a restaurant and you look at the menu and there's plenty of food that you've never tasted, you don't even know what it is, right? You go to some foreign country, you never had. You won't have this issue or paradox of choice because you don't know what it is. You'd be like, okay, well, I'm going to order the pizza because I know the pizza and, you know, if you're not going to be exploratory, you just order your pizza. You order what you know.
But like the problem is that we're spoiled. Like you said. We're totally spoiled. And like because you have this idea in my head like I want, I know what a burger tastes like. I know what a good burger tastes like. I want a good burger. By the same time, I know what a good pasta tastes like.
So I want a good pasta. At the same time, chicken fingers. I want the best fucking burger. And think about this, right? Every time you go to a restaurant and you order something, like, okay, maybe I'm a little bit more obsessive, but we're all kind of foodies, right? You compare the burger that you're about to have with every other fucking burger you've ever had in your entire fucking life. But I would do that if I were at home cooking my own burger too. But we shouldn't do that. We should just sit down, have the burger, enjoy that motherfucking burger.
Yeah, so what I'm saying is it really has nothing to do with cooking at home or not cooking at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just that we're spoiled. Yeah. Period, right? Yeah. And that's just... Yeah. But cooking, I guess the... But maybe a side benefit of...
taking the food that you've planted and all that stuff and producing the food on your own is that you recognize how difficult it is to produce that food. And then your expectations are a little bit different because literally you go to a restaurant and you don't give a fuck, right? There could be like thousands, hundreds of people in the restaurant and then I'm like fucking like, where do I start? It's like, one minute before I order. Right? And you go in there and think about it. You compare like...
the waiter to every other waiter you've ever had, the food to every other food, the ambiance, everything, right? Everything. It's the expectation. It's the expectation. But then like recently, like, you know, Ann's been cooking at home and stuff like that. And what I realized, and the thing is, if she's the one producing the food and you go home and you just treat it like a restaurant, you're going to get a lot of shit. I do that all the time. You could see it on their face, right? Oh, no, I do that to Jessica all the time. Yeah. Really? Yeah.
Yeah, she's like cooking a shrimp scampi and she knows this. And I'm like, nah, that's not a proper shrimp scampi. She'll make a soup. I'm like, nah, that's not the right way to do it. You just shit all over. I do it all the time. She knows. And she shits on my shit too. I never shit on Chef Yang's stuff. It's the best. But anyways, although... Anyways, maybe you should just cook and we just come over and have dinner with you if you're so lonely. I think the point...
That's a good one. What the fuck? If you're lonely, then just fucking cook and then have us come over. I'll hang out with you every night. No, you guys wouldn't. I would. You guys hardly even make time to do this podcast. But if there's food involved... That's Eric. No, but I think the point you're trying to make is there's a difference in reaping the rewards of your own labor. So if you labor over something...
it's different than they're just sitting at a restaurant and being like, serve me. And then having all these expectations heaped up on me. And then it's just like, it's like, who are you? Right? It's like, what kind of assholes have we become? Whereas where you labor over your own thing, it can be something small, just like cooking your own meal.
But I guess you learn some sort of appreciation through that process and you appreciate what you're having a little more, even though it could be not as good as the restaurant, but you almost appreciate it even more because you labored over it. I don't know. Yeah.
Yeah. So the analog here is that we used to just go out to restaurants, but now they can take the restaurant experience in a way, part of it, to your home through the ulema. And it's the same issue, right? And then your expectations. And then it's kind of like, so you order on ulema, they don't deliver in 30 minutes, and then you're fucking like yelling at them, right? And then you get the food. You just don't appreciate it as much, whereas if...
like I'm not cooking, but if Ann's producing the food, I go home and I'm like, if I just ask one simple question, when did you start cooking the meal? And she'll be, oh, like, you know, it's never as short as you think it is, right? It's like it literally takes an hour or two hours. And then you realize the amount of time that it went into it and then you appreciate it more. And then the way you judge and evaluate the meal is a totally different level.
And then if you have to wash the dishes and all that stuff, then you just appreciate it more. I think we're spoiled in this world. That's only if you're cognizant of it, though. I mean, most people just... Well, that's the mindfulness piece. So I think going back to where this conversation started is we're not in tune with things in general. It's that we are spoiled in the city in a lot of ways because we take everything for granted. We're not in tune with the natural world and we've become like feywu.
We're like fucking useless. Like literally you throw me into like a jungle and I'm like dead. So after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, what has happened? Like I can take notes on my fucking iPad, but I can't even feed myself. That's so true. What the fuck? Like humanity has taken such big steps forward. Collectively, collectively, but not individually. Oh, that's a good point.
But at the same time, we've taken so many steps backwards at the same time. At the individual level. Yeah, at the individual level. In Sapiens, I think, I believe it's Sapiens, but they talked about how like our fingers are now, we're like, our fingers are completely fucked up. So primitive human beings, their fingers were so fucking dexterous
that they could make anything with their hands. They could make a spear, everything. So their fingers themselves and the skills that they had were like 100,000 times more advanced. It's like a gymnast versus an ordinary person. We've lost all those skills. Like our fingers are basically useless. We can't even write anymore. Well, they also say that our bodies...
the human body is being used in a completely wrong way. Like the whole reason why so many people experience back pain, chronic back pain, neck and shoulder pain,
Like this is chronic and this is everywhere in the population, right? Is that because we're using our bodies in a way that it wasn't designed to be used. Like we're not designed to be sedentary, hunched over a computer, you know, doing backbreaking labor. Like this is not like what our bodies were designed for. And because of this,
now it's so common everywhere in society is all this kind of chronic pain that people are experiencing. Whereas before society evolved into, before the agricultural revolution, where cities started emerging with farming and settlements and everything like that,
like before that there was none of this yeah like people didn't have like lower back pain people didn't have like neck and shoulder pain well they're just much more active yeah like that wasn't a thing like it would be weird if you had that you know
But look at the generation now. I mean, obviously, we're kind of like... Diabetes. That wasn't really a part of it, part of human... Well, of course, yeah. There's a lot of new diseases and stuff like that. But back then, obviously, there were also diseases and stuff like that. But I think I totally agree with you because...
Even the whole movement of people working, like the upright desk. Did you ever try that before? Yeah, the desks that work now, they have the... Do you have that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The standing desks? I never use that shit. You never tried it? I'm lazy as fuck. Everyone around me is standing. I'm the only one sitting. I'm like, okay. I'm like the fucking Lopat. Like, everybody's standing. Okay. Okay.
Or they sit on the ball now instead of a chair. They sit on the ball. I've heard people say that it actually feels better once you get used to it. It's like when, remember when Oni came on that show one time? And then she's like, yeah, people like fucking slouched and their backs were fucked up. Well, she did say, she said the number one kind of threat
to kind of people is like posture right now. Yeah. She says like that's like- Being sedentary or something. Well, sedentary, but also like the most common thing she sees is posture. Well, like pain due to posture problems. It's all about posture. I feel it.
And to reiterate something she said that I found really fascinating, if you haven't listened to that episode, is that she's like, we're always thinking about like, okay, when people say posture, like even during that episode, right, Eric, like we immediately like sat up straight. I have the worst posture. And then we got into a posture that we thought was like the right posture. Oh, I remember this. And then she says, that's exactly the problem. People think that there's like one right proper posture and you try to hold that posture, right?
But that's the problem. You shouldn't be holding one posture, any posture.
- You gotta hold it there. - Constantly changing. - Yeah, it's about like always constantly changing your posture so you're working different muscles, you're working different joints, you're not overstressing one side of your body over the other. So it's about always constantly kind of moving and switching postures. She says, "A hundred bad postures is better than one good posture." - That's right. - Yeah. - That's right. Episode 30, oh, the numbering system is different. - What is it on Shimalaya? - I got it. - Anyway, it's Oni She. - Oni, yeah.
But we felt a lot better, right? Because at first we were like, oh, we're, you know. And then she's like, oh, no, 100 bed postures is good. And we were like lying down. I'm like, oh, I can do that. I can do 100 bed postures. Oh, man. But do you guys feel, I mean, do you feel when you wake up, your body is just achy? Sometimes. If I worked out hard the day before, like soreness? Like muscle soreness? Not soreness. Just like every day. Old man ache? Yeah. You haven't felt that?
Only through working out. So sometimes I've strained my back and I'll have a little bit of back pain when I wake up. But I know that was because of a workout I did. What part of your body? Everywhere. Yeah. I have to start working out because when I used to work out, it would be a lot less. And it would be like what you said. It would be like body sore and stuff like that. But now that I've stopped working out for over a year, over a year now, a year and a half. Wow.
My body's kind of shit. Like, I feel like my body has aged. So when you... Okay, so what happens? Like, so you wake up to take a piss or brush your teeth or whatever. Yeah, I got, like, stiff knees. I got stiff ankles. And, like, my back's kind of stiff. Yeah, everything just feels very stiff. But that's normal, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Like you wake up and you just pop up like Mr. Incredible, like boom. Let's go. I do. Really? Well, I don't feel like a thousand bucks, but I don't feel like, I don't feel like, oh, I'm stiff everywhere.
I mean, you are technically stiffer when you wake up because, you know, you've been flying flat. No, I feel like a little ginger around my body, like when I wake up. No, I don't feel ginger. I'm just saying the only reason why I say this is because, let's say 10 years ago, I would not feel that. I always felt like that. I always felt like I woke up and I'm like, ah. No, back in the day, like I would like, like what Justin would say, I'd pop out of bed and be like, bam, you know? Really? Yeah. I'm ready to go when I wake up. Really? Yeah. I'm not.
but i've changed no like i'm tired yeah but i'm not like in terms of physical like body joint joints like i'm not like i'm not feeling like my joints are stiff you know okay i'm groggy but that's that's different but that's what we're not talking about that you're talking about like joint stiffness yeah i think you're good then yeah i'm getting well i also have gout i mean you know what i mean yeah a lot of things a lot of things going on don't you
But I mean, that's what, I mean, before we started this podcast, we were talking about like the idea of like living holistically. Like you work really hard at your work and try to make a living and you feel like that's going to bring you some sort of success and happiness. But then at the end of the day, you're completely disregarding like your physical health. Mental health. Mental health. So it's like you're completely leaving out one whole side of the equation and
that is going to be equally or even maybe more so later on contributing to your overall happiness. Agreed. So it's like, are you not looking at things from a holistic angle? Are you choosing not to look at it from a holistic angle? It's funny you're saying that because literally this morning, I don't know what happened. I just kind of woke up.
And I was sitting on my desk and I, because as you know, I've been, and I always say this, but I have been pretty busy. Right. And it got to the point I looked to the left and I saw like my cameras, my still photography cameras. And I just got this like Insta360 thing. Right. And so I'm looking at my cameras. I'm like, fuck, man, I haven't picked that up in months.
you know then look at my piano i was like i used to love playing piano and i haven't played piano because i really yeah i stopped for like two months wow literally you were so into that like all you would do is play that piano you were trying to play like the tetris theme song yeah yeah no arrival yeah yeah anyway all that so like and then and then all of a sudden i'm like jesus all the stuff that i was doing like before when i got hit really hard for the past three months
Like I'd stopped doing and even working out as was before that and I was like wait, what am I doing? You know, like what am I doing because I've never been this crazy before in this one lump of three months You know, I mean, I was like, what am I doing? Is this like this is good. This is not good And so I was like, okay, I have to change I have to change like
No ands or buts. Like even like we're talking about, you know, Danny stuff. And I'm like, how the fuck am I going to find time to do that? Because like literally I have these priorities. Teams are waiting for me and stuff like that. Like how do I balance that? You know what I mean? So it's like that's not good. You know, I have to prioritize. So yeah, that was on my mind this morning. What are you going to – okay, let me ask you a question then. In order to say yes to the most important things that you haven't been saying yes to,
What are you going to say no to? Well, firstly, I think, actually, it's funny. This is not an obvious thing. So when I do have time, I have this thing that I do is I open up on my web browser. I have all my favorite websites that I like to look at for news, right? Pornhub. And then I realized that there's actually... Chat for me. Chat.
It's so funny how specific we can get. Did you hear? He was like, I have these sites for my news sites. He paused.
Okay. So anyway, I realized that, I mean, a lot of this stuff I don't need to read. Like I don't really need to keep updated with, you know what I mean? And so that's one way, one place where I can take back some time. So you, would you like, so you read that shit every day? Like when? I don't actually, I, when I do, like I try to like, like allocate my time. Usually it's like when I'm eating food, I'm like, I'm going to stop my work and I'm going to read some news or read some articles. Yeah.
And then I'll go back to my work, you know? But then sometimes I can't control myself. And then I'm like, Oh, right. You get 40 minutes went by, you know what I mean? I can't afford this 40 minutes, you know, like you get sucked into the rabbit hole. Yeah. Yeah. And so that, so that's one thing I'm going to do is cause I have 30 websites.
that I have to open up. 30? That's a lot. Yeah, because I hit all the things. So I was like, I had my like film, filmmaking sites, you know, news about. That's like porn. Like director's cut. It's like movie stuff, commercial stuff, products, technology. And then I have my, all my technology stuff because I love technology. What is a good technology website? Like Ars Technica, for example. Like I like to read Ars Technica. Do you like TechCrunch?
TechCrunch, sure. Yeah, Ars Technica is like pretty detailed. I like Ars Technica. I don't have TechCrunch in mind. So you get no more Ars Technica. Bye-bye. No, no. That's the one I'll keep. But I'll get rid of like Gizmodo or like, you know...
So there's like 30. And gadget. I have a bunch that's like tech. I'll just keep one. News. I have a whole bunch of news websites. I want to talk about that, but go on. And then I have photography stuff. And then I have basketball stuff. It's just like, why? Why do I have so much shit? So you're going to cut down. Okay, so how many hours a day can you save with that? I think I'll probably save...
an hour. Okay. But hold on. Let me play devil's advocate for a second though. Just for a second, right? Like, but why not? Like, why is that such a bad thing? Because we're talking about like the idea of holistic, right? And it's like, like if, if you're interested in technology, if you're, if you have a, if you're really, if you really like basketball and keeping up with basketball, NBA and shit like that, like why cut that out of your life, right? Like, isn't, shouldn't we be encouraging you to have some sort of
ties to that in terms of keeping up to date? Like, what's the use of, okay, yeah, so if you cut that out, maybe you save some time to do some other things, but what other things would you replace with it? So the other things I would replace with it is more social activity or other activities that I can touch and feel that will improve myself. But is that just for the sake of doing it? Or is it because you really want to do those things? Because at the end of the day, if reading about, if being up to date and playing some, let's say, fantasy basketball,
it brings you more happiness at the end of the day than whatever activity you would replace it with.
then why are we prioritizing my own view? I get what you're saying, and it's right. We just need to recenter back on... Because the original question was that he'd been spending so much time on things and ignoring his health and certain things, right? That was the original question. If I get what you're saying as well, we can fit it in. So my question was, like, what are you going to say no to so you can say yes to these more important things, right? That was one of the things that I said. So maybe that's not the most important thing, but...
Let me ask this question then, right? What are the things that are actually taking up the most time in your life right now to begin with? Before we say yes or no to anything, what's actually taking up all your time so that you're not able to focus on some really key things like social, more social, like healthy social interactions and fitness? Because fitness is like, your body is like fucking broke down. You wake up and your shit's all fucked up, right? Yeah. So...
What's actually taking up all the time? Work. I mean, projects. Doubling, tripling, quadrupling up projects. Okay. So within your work realm, what are some of the things that you're going to have to say no to so that you can say yes to other things? Being less control freaky about projects. That's the biggest thing that I have to change. So it's more of a behavior thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, mindset too. Yeah. No, for example, I mean, I don't know if this will...
hit home to you guys at all but like one example when a project comes in I've explained this before I have to create like the the pitch the pitch thing right exactly and so I usually put in my effort and it takes a while you know a lot of research thinking about what I'm going to do and then and then you know explaining it
So that's one thing. But then I keep hearing in the industry, it's like, I'm a rarity. Most directors, they'll just write a paragraph and be like, you guys handle it, to the production company or whatever. And that's why a lot of production companies working with me, they're like, well, this director puts in a lot of effort and he's pretty good and that kind of stuff. But then even my coworkers are like, how are you putting in way too much effort? It's like...
You know, why? Like, why are you putting so much effort? You don't need to put in that much effort. It's just a commercial, you know? And I'm like, part of it makes sense. Yeah, it's just a commercial. But at the same time, I mean, I still take pride in... Like, this is your life's work. Yeah. I'm not just going to hand it over to somebody else to do it if they don't get it. So that's one thing of finding that balance. Okay. So let me...
You want to go first? Well, I wanted to go back to three key words that a lot of people always say, and you definitely always say, I have to. I have to do this. I have to do it that way. I have to, when the project comes in, I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to do this. You know, there are some things that maybe you absolutely have to do. You have to do. But I think there's probably a lot of things in between that you can really ask yourself.
Do I have to? Now, you can focus in on the I or you can focus in on the have to. Because maybe some things do have to get done, but maybe you don't need to be the one to do them. Or maybe some things don't actually have to get done, but you just like to put that extra frosting on top because you take really great pride in your work. So you go the extra miles, but maybe you can cut off, you know, cut down on a few of those miles maybe.
Maybe, right? I'm just speculating. Well said. Well said. So it's like it goes back to the I have to. And is it the I or is it the have to part? But either way, it's those three words, I have to. And you need to revisit them at every step of the way. Yeah, well said. And then if we go back and we say, what is the actual end goal here?
Like, what are you trying to accomplish? So like, for instance, okay, I want to improve my reputation in the industry, or I want to improve and increase the win rate for the commercials. Because if all these people are telling you, hey, we love it when you do these treatments, are you actually getting the win rates that you want? Right? The other piece is like, can you delegate this stuff?
So that can you build a team? Can you spend all your time developing a group of people that could actually do this at your quality and you develop like Howie protégés that makes you more scalable?
Right. So like, if it's just because of your ego, then that's probably something you need to let go of. Right. But I, I, I totally agree. It's like, I have to, it's like, that's a brilliant way of looking at it. And it's the, I part, can you scale yourself to a team and then have to, is it actually essential to driving what really matters? Or is this just sort of like a vanity thing? Because ultimately, like if you can, if,
If you are working this hard, you're achieving commercial success, you should be able to scale yourself to the point where you've got a bunch of fucking minions like Howie Juniors that are doing all this shit for you and then you achieve economies of scale. So something is potentially blocking you
if you're still spending all your energy doing the treatment piece. You should actually be doing the fucking commercial piece or whatever it is. That should be your true legacy, right? Because that's the only thing you're going to make money for. And not that money is the most important thing, but money is the proxy to determine your effectiveness. No, I totally agree with you guys. I think for me, the biggest thing is effort. At the end of the day, it's effort. Whether it's the treatment side actually on set and making it happen or even post, like...
you know delivering it through the edit and stuff like that i mean um in my field of work there's that three kind of step process right and it's like how much effort do i put in as opposed to let's say other people my peers in the industry does the effort get you so for every additional bit of effort right what is the link or connection from your effort to the return
Like, I'm curious, right? Like, are you, because you're obviously very successful. And like, I mean, we've seen you sort of in the last few years, like really get into very high profile sort of activities, right? So is that the difference maker and you got to keep pushing to the point where you can get some economies of scale? Or are there areas where you're saying yes too much when you should be saying no? Yeah. Well, like diminishing returns, right? Diminishing returns. Like at what point does more effort not equal more return or more reward? Yeah.
And you're, I mean, you might be at that point already or past that point already. It's very likely. No, but what I was going to say to add on to my initial introduction to this thought is,
was that I tried on a few projects recently where I literally could not put in that effort. I literally could not. You just didn't have the time. On set, I was doing whatever. I literally could not. Even if I wanted to, I physically could not. Could not what?
do whatever do whatever do whatever whatever the thing was i mean there's a bunch of different times you know time frames but like he was physically occupied so he could not do what he would normally have done like even if i was like okay well i'll give me an hour i cannot no i cannot right so when i got in those positions and it still got done and that's where i was like okay okay okay now is it okay who did it
It depends on the time. You said no, and someone else said yes. Yeah, someone else said, okay, well, we have to deliver this. The void got filled one way somehow. So this is where I'm trying to improve, which is letting go of that because then I'll look at it, and I'll be like, definitely not at the level that I would do it at. But...
I guess it's enough. It's enough. And then Justin and I would be like, oh, this one is... Remember he showed us multiple commercials at one time? We're like, this one obviously is way better. And he's like, fuck you guys. He spent thousands of hours on one and the other one was done by his assistant. And we're like, oh, this one's the best. This one's the best.
This one's so much better than the other one. It comes down to like the control factor, right? The micro versus macro. The idea of, you know, I don't think it's about ego, honestly. I think it's just like, it's almost like training.
you know what i mean it's like when one person is trained a certain way for so long that that's the only way you know how to work or how to train or how to fight yeah you know it might not be ego it might actually be insecurity right it could be the opposite of an ego you'll be like oh i'm
It's a lot of things, right? I can get it. A cocktail of a lot of things going on in there. But I think that's the thing. It's like the most powerful thing. It's like, what do you have to say no to so you can start saying yes to certain things? And if you're going to say yes to something, you have to say no to things, right? We always think like we can do like, okay, here's my goal. Here's my objective. But we never let go of things, but it's impossible. That's such a good point because letting go...
is really hard it's harder than it sounds and it's harder for different people given different situations but like you know a lot of people when it comes to self-development self-improvement a lot of people preach about the idea of doing more right um like get go out there and fight for what you want and do more if you want something go after it these things are great
But like what you said, Eric, you bring up a really good point. A lot of people are in a position where, okay, if they were to do that, they would have to let go of something else in order to do that. And a lot of people are just not willing to let go of these things or feel that they can't let go. I'm going to add on one more thing to that, which is, I mean, maybe you can't even think about can you let go or can you not let go unless you're so clear on what that is.
path is right you know what your goal is but even let's not even call it a goal but like just like that that direction you know what i mean because if that is not even established then there's no security whatsoever make that decision of you know you know what i mean yeah no i know exactly what you mean yeah in many ways personally i'm kind of in that position to be honest like it's the idea of
It's the idea of, you know, the whole kind of metaphor of like, okay, well, you can't reach the summit without taking your feet off the ground, right? And most of us have our feet planted safely on the ground where we're comfortable, we feel safe, we're familiar. But it's like leaving your feet off the ground and starting that climb. That's scary. But at least in this metaphor, you know, your path is towards the summit. You have a direction, right? Yeah.
But when you don't know what you want to do or where you want to go, I agree. It's almost impossible to let go because like, where are you letting go towards? And you have no, then you're just, you feel like you're just going to be floating in some sort of void of like insecurity, unknowing what the future holds, like everything. All your fears come into play at that point. The premise of all of this stuff is that you've done
And you've already done a deep self-reflection and self-inventory of where you are in your life and, like, what are the things you've done and who are the people around you that you care most about and how much time you have left on this earth and then what it is that you want to go after. And, like, that's what people don't, like, because we're just...
Every day we're in this survival mode. And when I say survival mode, we're not like our primitive ancestors, right? We're in this survival mode where we're just kind of instinctively reacting through life. Like, okay, I wake up. What day is today? It's Monday. I got to go to work, right? I'm always in a survival mode. But survival mode in response to my environment. My environment doesn't have lions and tigers and all that shit anymore, right? I'm not starving. Like, I don't have to worry about a lot of these dangers anymore.
I'm like, okay, if I don't go to work, I'm gonna get it fucking fired. Right. So I'm like, I gotta get the tiger is the boss. Right. Yeah. The tiger's boss. Yeah. You can, you can draw the full metaphor and then on the weekends I, you know, I rest, whatever this and that. Right. So I'm responding to my environment, but how many people sit down and really reflect on what are the things that really, really matter? And we talked about this on one, like that one show about, remember the, like the, the nine questions. Yeah.
We asked hypothetical questions. I don't even know if that show ever made it on the air because it was kind of pathetic. No, no. It was. It was. Oh, was it? It was. People liked that. It was a fantastic show. Sorry about that. Um,
And we were like, okay, what if you had an envelope and you can know when your death date was? Would you want it? You didn't want to know. I didn't want to know. Well, both of you didn't want to know. I was the only one that said I wanted to know. But imagine you knew, right? Because we all know. Your death date, I mean, the three of us are not living to 2100. Right.
What is it now? 2020? You don't know that. We're not living another 80 years. You don't know that. Okay, anyways. I doubt it, right? So we know at least... Definitely not Howie. He's already waking up stiff and shit. I know, he's like fucking stiff. Yeah. I'm the first one to go. But...
I mean, okay, we might live another 80 years max, right? Like 2100 or whatever, right? But knowing that, what are the things that you want to do in your life? Knowing that you might not even live in, you might not make it till tomorrow. Like that happens, right? And then once you figure, like you should stop everything. You should stop every fucking project, every film, every meeting, everything.
Every podcast until you can answer that question of like, what is it that really you want to do in the next X number of years? Because until you figure that out, you're wasting your fucking time. And if you go tomorrow, it's it. That's done. There's no more. Right? Or if you keep putting it off. Yeah. Of course, you have to do a deep self-reflection because what you want is a product of who you are.
Right. If you're a person that's always wanted money, then maybe it's going to be money related. If you're a person that grew up in a nice family like the three of us, you know, then you're going to probably want some some type of thing that relates to people. Right. But you've got to figure that out. Otherwise, everything you're doing now is not necessarily going to contribute to, you know, what's going to be meaningful for you.
Can I just be devil's advocate for one second here? Of course. You don't have to ask. I know. I'm just... I feel like... Okay, go. Wait, wait, wait. He's just afraid because Justin is actually... If he's devil's advocate and I come hard at him, he can defend me. I'm not afraid at all. Yeah, I've learned my lesson with Eric. Right, but this guy, he's soft. I have to preface my devil's advocacy. Nah.
So, ready? I mean, okay. It's easy for us to say that, right? You know, know what you want. If you don't know what you want, then figure it out and then go for it, right? But there are a lot of people out there in the world that are not in the position to even have that luxury of thinking of what do I want, right?
And it's like, actually, the reason why I'm saying that is recently in our group chat, in our Honest Drink group chat, WeChat group, if you haven't joined yet. Honest Drinker?
The Honest Drinkers. The Honest Drinkers. Yeah, yeah. We had a quick conversation with one of the group members, and they were saying how they're stuck in their dead-end job. They're very unhappy with their job, but they really want to do other things, but the family doesn't want them to do it. This person has responsibilities with children. And how does he even consider that?
Is it a he or a she? I believe it's a he. Yeah, it's a he. You know, how does he even consider, you know, doing what he loves? Because he hates what he does now. Really? You know? And so it's like, you know, without knowing, you know, I didn't, we did not get into like details of his background or anything like that, but like,
But I saw the chat and I was looking at it. I was like thinking, okay, well, it's easy for us to say like, yeah, just go for it then. Go for what you love. Go for your passion. It's easy to say that. That's arrogant, actually. It's fucking arrogant, right? It's fucking Eric. That's what it is. No, I'm kidding. It's Eric-kent. It's very Eric-kent. I'm kidding. No, but what I'm trying to get at is not everybody is in that position to have that luxury, like Justin said, to even consider it.
And how do you face that? Yeah. I mean, we don't have the answers. What's under your control and what's not, right? And you've got to focus on what's under your control. But we always go back to the idea of like, look, we don't have the answers. We can't tell you specifically, okay, here's A, B, C, and D. This is what you do. But it's the idea of practicing that self-reflection and just being aware of
that maybe you have more choices that you're not noticing. Maybe the idea of I have to isn't necessarily true in certain situations. Maybe. Maybe it is, right? But it's the idea of questioning, of asking and reflecting and practicing that over and over again for everything until you find somewhere where you're like, uh-huh, okay. I thought I had to, but I don't.
Okay. And maybe that one thing can change everything. Yeah. Or it can be the beginnings of massive change. It's actually a form of prioritizing, right? Because it's not just prioritizing what you do, but it's also prioritizing your way of thinking. Yeah. I totally agree with you, Justin. And what you said, Howie, is also true, very situational, right? Yeah.
I can't speak for anyone other than myself. I can barely speak for myself most of the time. But I can't speak with, leverage my perspective. But whenever you're faced with a situation that seems quite difficult, many of us, the three of us or the listeners have faced difficult situations.
And like when you share your difficult situation, I might just think, oh, that's nothing. I share my difficult situation and you might think it's nothing, right? Because a lot of it is sort of the mindset. But in any given situation, in your situation,
there are more options than you realize. Like what Justin said, I totally, totally agree. And if there is something in your mindset that's keeping you from moving forward, then you have to fix that. There are , right? There are certain things you just can't like, okay, like you're, there's certain things that- - Like financially. - There are certain realities of life that you can't really do anything about. - But even then, in your context, is it your mindset that's limiting you?
Is your thought process, is it you've been in that situation so long that's all you can see and are you making assumptions or like, yeah, what if you just fucking quit your job? Not saying to do that. No, we're not saying to do that. But what if you just said, fuck it?
I'm going to go like, whatever. Right. And you actually did it. What are people going to do? Like, honestly, like it's like what Howie did. Right. Howie's like, I thought I had to do all these things. And then one day he physically couldn't do it. It wasn't like his, his willpower is quite weak, but he couldn't do it. Right. It's like, right. It's not like he, it's not like, or anything. Right. He was, he was at another job. He couldn't do it. And then it got done anyways. So how many things in your life you think,
based on your judgment, you think it's not possible, but actually you created that false reality for yourself. That is so well put, dude. That is so well put. You said it though. You said it. So it's like this. I'm not going to knuckle you because you made fun of me. I love making fun of you. We're going to bring this full circle. We were talking about phones earlier. It's like, okay, so it's like... No, it's like I have a smartphone. I have a phone here. And it's like...
It's like the difference between like the hardware realities versus the software realities. So it's like, I can say like, no way my phone can't do this. I can't do that. My phone physically cannot do this. Now, maybe it can.
Because maybe it's not the hardware. Maybe if you just upgraded the software, which is like improving your mindset and your mentality, all of a sudden your phone has all these other functions and capabilities. So it was never about a hardware where your phone physically couldn't do it. It can. You just upgraded the software for it.
I'm maybe going one step too far. No, no, no. It's not the best analogy. That was not a home run. That was not a home run. But the reality is that... I thought it was pretty damn good, though. Fuck you guys. It's pretty good. Fuck you guys. I was trying to bring it full circle. Yeah, he's got curses with phones. But in a practical way, if everyone believed in their own limitations, we wouldn't have...
society today because we would have never pushed the envelope. There's always some crazy motherfucker, right? Like, like, like the Wright brothers, no one, like every, all the science pointed to that flying was impossible, right? Like, like, like basically, you know, manned flight was impossible. Yeah. And the Wright brothers, somehow there's Sun Jing Bing, right? Think about it. There's always like Sun Jing Bing, contrary to the prevailing wisdom. They're like, oh, I think it's possible. Right.
But that's Sun Jingbing actually turned out not to be Sun Jingbing. It was everyone else that was Sun Jingbing. So there's always... Well, didn't Steve Jobs have a famous quote about like, you know, the innovators are the people who dare to be foolish. But this is dangerous. I have to stop you guys right now. This is dangerous.
Because you're just talking about the 1.0.001% We didn't talk about all the people who died crashing trying to fly away. But all the other people that are Xin Jinping that are fucking Xin Jinping. Hundreds of other crashes that happened. But what we're saying is that... What we're saying is that... People jumping off cliffs with wings on their arms like...
And just falling to their deaths. Like, like, like our show is like, our show is like banned because we're telling people that, but you know, I mean more, more seriously, but more seriously, right? Right. Brothers. The question everyone has to ask themselves is, is that is what I'm thinking and trying to do truly impossible. Has no one else done it or is it in my head?
um, you know, really reflect on that question, right? Really reflect on like, am I looking at the situation in the most, the broadest possible way? Or am I creating the fiction for myself? Am I basically creating the conclusion for myself? Like I'm not going to toot my home, but toot my horn, but I'm going to toot my horn right now. All right. Eric, so, um,
Everyone knows that I'm a... Or not everyone, but you guys know that at one point I was a frail, weak-minded, and physically quite challenged individual. I've always been skinny my whole life. And I always...
took my physical inadequacies and projected them onto my broader personality. All right? I woke up this morning. I was a little bit sore, I have to admit. Okay? My left knee was hurting.
But the reason it was hurting wasn't because that, you know, I haven't exercised in a year. It's because yesterday I went out there and I ran a half marathon distance. I ran 21.15 kilometers. I just went out there. Like I woke up, I was like, I got to go for a long run. I've got the Chen Daohu half marathon. You know, I've been running like five or 10 Ks, right? We've been talking about that.
And I'm like, I got to go for like a 15K run so I can kind of like develop my distance. I was a totally pathetic pussy. Like I woke up and I was like, oh, how lay. Oh, something. So I joked you for eight hours, right? Like for eight hours. I can imagine you doing it. For eight hours, I was like a sack of shit. And I was like, oh, okay.
And then we went out to lunch and then I was like, oh, this and that. And then finally it was like four o'clock and I was like, it's like, it's as cold as it, like it's like the coldest point of the day. It's going to get even colder. Right. It's shitty weather. This is yesterday. And like, we're literally like, we just had like ice cream or something like that. Right. And then I'm like, fuck it. If I don't do it today, tomorrow's going to rain. And then, you know, then I will be a failure. I'll be a loser. Right. Right.
I'm gonna do it. So we were at Xintiandi Guangchang, which is like Hong Kong Plaza. And then I'm like, I'm just gonna do 5 or 10K, whatever, right? So I went from there and I ran all the way up to like Nanjing Donglu, right? And then, and I know this route. And then from Nanjing Donglu and the Wai Tan, if you go south all the way to Xi Wai Tan, West Bun, Lou Mei Shukan, that's like another 10K.
So I started running and I felt like fucking shit. I was like, oh, God damn, I can't even make it like a couple of kilometers, right? I made it out there. So it's like 3K, go from Nanjing Donglu Buxingjie, like Waitan, and I started running. It's like 10K, 1K, 2K. I'm just like, you know, trying to just make it 1K by 1K. Finally, like I'm starting to get going and everything is starting to work.
And then I'm like, I can do 12K, 15K. And I'm like, you know what? If I can do 20K and it shows up on my apps, then I'm going to get fucking massive accolades, right? I did it all for the fucking vanity. The likes. The likes, right? And then I was like, okay, 20K. And then bam, I was like 21K, bitches, right?
This is from a frail person growing up that was selected as the last person for any school team. I was like the last guy. Okay, we'll take Eric. We need a human being? Okay, we'll take Eric. I wish I was there. I would love to see that. You guys are all like, I mean, Howie played baseball, Justin played football. You guys are like fucking athletic, right? I'm like this nerdy, dorky guy. I never thought I could do any of this stuff.
hour 46 minutes that's pretty good pace that if i if i did that marathon that's chicago boston marathon uh qualifying pace not bad right frail hold on ready toot the horn no no no come on let's be serious come on let's be serious eric good job man good job honestly good job thanks yeah man keep on trucking love you all i'm justin
I'm Eric. And I'm Howie. All right, guys. Peace. I know. Everyone says we sound the same. Yeah, I don't know. I'm past that, though. There's nothing we can do about that. There's nothing we can do about that. Unless we start talking like this. I'm Howie. All right, guys. Anyway, peace. Cheers, guys. Later. Bye.
I'm a fan of Alphana.