#75. Cyrus Janssen: The Dogma
01:50:11 Share

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. We got a special one today. My guest is a speaker, social media influencer, and the host of Real Talk China. Many of you might already know him best for his YouTube channel, where he publishes his weekly vlogs and shares a lot of insights into China.

His channel has grown tremendously in the last couple of years, and he is part of a growing community of content creators and prominent voices who are helping the world better understand China and exposing the misinformation, the bias, and false narratives that many around the world are set up to believe.

The conversation we have in this episode can be polarizing for some. So fair warning, we do get a bit political. We talk about Western media's coverage on China, disinformation campaigns, the traps of overzealous Western political ideology, and just

general anti-China sentiment and misunderstanding. This was a wonderful conversation. I got to learn so much more about our guest and hear his origin story of why he's making the content he does. This episode may not be for everybody, but if you choose to listen, please do with an open mind. It was such a pleasure talking to this man and trading thoughts with him. So without further ado, please welcome the one and only Cyrus Jansen. ♪ Let's get up ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

Yeah. You know, when I started this podcast, I thought podcasting was going to be easy. It's deceptively a lot of work. Yeah, I can imagine. I know, like, I mean, obviously running a YouTube channel, it is a ton of work. And I thought the same. I kind of thought the same thing, too. You know, I've done a couple, you know, my show is called Real Talk China, and I bring in different guests. And I thought this would be great because if I do a standard video,

it takes a lot of time to edit and then and then with this show i can just click record and then just upload it good to go and then i'm like that's still actually a lot of editing too yeah well i i think the the video game is a whole different beast right um so what i you know i tried to uh well i did um i started a video channel for the podcast as well because i thought hey i might as well right like i'm recording it anyway

And then it's a whole different animal in terms of video editing. It's so much more work. So I've been so behind on updating the video channel. So it's kind of like a second thought at this point, but I'm trying to keep it up. Yeah. Anyway, okay. Welcome, Cyrus. Absolutely. My pleasure. Pleasure to be here. Thanks, Justin, for having me on The Honest Drink. I've been following your videos and...

I really have to say that I really respect what you're doing. I think given current events, it couldn't be a more important time to kind of have this conversation with you and to hear from you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. I'm really looking forward to jumping into this and opening the

and seeing where this is going to lead us, because I agree with you. It really is an important time to be discussing, you know, U.S., China, and we need dialogue. We need engagement. Yeah. But before we dive into all that nitty gritty, I'm curious because when I first saw you and I see your videos,

You didn't strike me as the type of person that would really kind of want to dive into the whole content creation game and be a YouTuber. You didn't strike me to fit that profile, I guess. So I'm just really curious to want to know, why did you get started in this? What was the motivation? Yeah.

You know, Justin, I have to say it probably for me, it was just reaching a tipping point. You know, I think, you know, for myself, I have lived in China for many years. You know, I immediately when I graduated university two weeks later, I bought a one way ticket to Shanghai and I began my professional career in China.

Um, and so my first job that brought me to China was I was a golf professional. And so that was the very first job that brought me there. And it was interesting cause I was, you know, I had, I really started and my entire professional career was in China. I instantly fell in love with the country, the people, um,

You know, I had learned so much because there was obviously a tremendous amount of stereotypes coming from the United States, even my own conception, you know, my own perceptions of what China was. Again, like most people in America know very, very little about the country of China.

And, you know, and I had nothing. I had no clue about China. And so I think kind of what started on my journey was I was open to the idea of going there. I went and, you know, I had a really great time for my 10 years in China. I had an opportunity to come to Canada where I'm currently living right now.

You know, and what I what I realized is, is when I came back, I almost had a reverse culture shock because, you know, I had no great experience of being in China. And then still, you know, China, you know, in these 10 years of me living there, you know, the China's reputation on the Western stage had not improved at all. You know, it had only gotten worse. But yet on the flip side, we see China as a country has actually improved a lot.

And so I saw this difference that was very big. And in addition to that, I think as China has been demonized and really been portrayed very negatively in the Western media, it just really reached a tipping point to me where I just said, you know what? I'm going to make a video about this. And it was funny because at the time, I'm

not really that savvy on YouTube. And I, and I was starting actually making some golf YouTube videos. But if you look back on my channel, the very first videos are actually all golf related. I'll tell you a quick story. You know, I was actually, I actually had a travel blog before I started, you know, so back in like 2011, 2011 to 2014, I had a travel blog called travel with Cyrus. And this was kind of my first endeavor into the

Call it social media. Obviously, it was just a blog. But, you know, it was interesting because I had written a couple of articles that went viral and really and one of one of them was actually about the Hong Kong protests. And it was really interesting because I had a very interesting I had a very.

valuable lesson. I was interviewing for a job at the Hong Kong Golf Club. And the Hong Kong Golf Club is, it used to be the Royal and Ancient, or it used to be the Royal Hong Kong Golf Club. So when it becomes Royal, that means that it's been designated by a member of the British family as a Royal property. So it used to be Royal. They dropped it at the 1997 handover.

But anyways, they had never had an American work there. And so it was quite a very big job opportunity for me. And I, I read, I wrote an article entitled why this American expat does not support the Hong Kong protest. And this was back in 2014 protest, the umbrella protest. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so that, that went viral. And anyways, you know, like I had, and that was just, again, this was like my little travel blog slash side thing. And anyways, I,

I basically had the contract signed and was good to go. And then like, they, they, they canceled the contract on me because of that blog post. And, and I was, did they tell you straight up that that was the reason, or did they kind of infer that? Or did you know that they, no, no, no, they didn't tell me they, it was, it was so dodgy. It was so disrespectful how they did it. Um, and, and I, and I wouldn't, I actually would wish they would have just said, you know what, Cyrus,

We, you know, we've seen this blog post and I gotta be honest with you, like we think this is going to potentially be a little bit too political. And unfortunately, you know, we made a decision to move on to somebody else. If they would have came out and said that, I would have been like really crushed, but I would have been like, well, thanks for telling me. Now, the craziest thing was, is that

I met up with the GM for the golf round later. So I've like a few months later, I went out to go play golf there and I was paired with the, and I played with the GM and he, and he just, and he, he basically was like, Hey man, I'm really sorry about that whole, about that whole job thing. And I'm like, yeah, it was really weird. You know, I was chatting with the guys and then like, they didn't respond to my emails. Then I, then I, then I wrote him another one. I called them. And then it was very cold. Like I was basically had the contract and it's like,

we've decided to go somewhere else. Thank you. And I was like, Whoa, like what? Like, like that's like, what happened? Like, so it was a red flag. And then he's just like, yeah, well, you know, you know, the whole blog post thing, you know, and he just kind of basically mentioned it very casually. I'm like, what are you talking about? The blog post thing? He's like,

you know that's the reason you got but you know we didn't hire you right and i'm like i had no idea like this is the first time you've told me this and and and he's just like oh i thought i thought the guy told you oh he didn't tell you like yeah like basically the you know the board was really concerned you know we're bringing on this really political guy and yeah that's why he didn't get the job and i was like oh man that's crazy you know like so i was super um

disappointed, you know, by learning that. That was like a revelation for you too, though, at the same time, right? It was, you know, because, because I had a couple of friends of mine that were just like, a couple of close buddies were like, damn, man, if you would have just shut your mouth, you know, you would have been right at Hong Kong Golf Club. But I, and I wasn't,

I don't know, it was deep down inside though. I wasn't upset about it in that regard. I was just, I was, um, I was just like, you know what, like if that's the, you know what, then I don't need to work there. You know, like I don't want to have, you know, like I I'm glad I wrote that post, you know, and I'm glad that I took a stance on that and I want to be that guy that's going to come out and speak. And so I think that's, that was kind of the catalyst to me, you know, starting a YouTube channel, you know, five years later, you know, um, you know, where I just said,

you know what, I'm going to make a video about China. You know, I am going to put myself out there. I am going to, you know, put a name to it and put my face to it and really identify with this, which, which does take on risk. You know, I mean, for sure. I'm sure if I was interviewing for a job at Hong Kong golf club, I don't know if I'd get it. This guy's too pro China, you know, who knows, but it's, it's just interesting, you know? And so anyways, that was the first experience that,

you know, that I had with that. And you know what? It's a great learning experience and I'm glad I went through it. But it did teach me that it's also important to stand up for something you believe in and make it known. I said this before in one of my videos, you know, 2020 was the year of the rise of the China vlogger. And I think that really just comes from many people wanting to hear other voices and to hear a different perspective about China.

Well, yeah. I mean, I can relate to you on many fronts. You know, one is I grew up in the States myself. I grew up in New Jersey for, you know, most of my adult life. I came out here to China and Shanghai a little over 10 years ago now. It's, you know, and I don't,

I've been trying to figure out like a good way to kind of put this all into perspective, right? And because what you're saying, it really rings true. And I find like an intensifying frustration the more time that passes, especially within these last couple of years about kind of like the unbalanced coverage, I guess, on China, the narrative really. And, you know, honestly, yeah,

Me, like a few years ago, I was not political at all. I did not. And I'm still not really. But like, I didn't really care at all. I was super indifferent. I grew up in the States. And when I first got here, I didn't know anything about China. I was just as American as apple pie.

And so I believed and I was indoctrinated in a lot of the kind of principles and outlook you have on other foreign countries, especially China, growing up there in certain systems of government. So, you know, when I would hear some news, I would tend to believe it. I'm like, okay, okay, that's what's going on. But when I moved out here slowly, it has started accumulating what I would hear, I would get news and I'd be like, hmm.

that doesn't really align at all with my personal experience being here. And I would just kind of, okay, I shrug it off and go on with my life. But over the years, it seems to have escalated and accumulated where I can't really ignore it anymore. I'm like, wait, okay, well, what's going on here? I mean, there's something going on here because...

The narrative that's being told in the West is not at all what is really happening in reality here on the ground. And if you spent any amount of time in China, and especially extended amount of time, you would know that. And so there's this intensifying frustration because it's hard to get that point across and to break that

hardcore belief system that you have when you're growing up in the West. Because how could you, right? Like everything around you, all the media, all the input and information that you're getting is very one-sided and you don't notice that. You just, of course, you believe it. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. Yeah. And, you know, I have a weird analogy, but I see it like, okay, let's say we're in high school, right? And you're not a very popular kid.

And you put your head down and you start studying really hard and doing well in class. And you start playing sports and working really hard at that. You get really good at the sports and athletics and you start becoming a little more popular now.

But the popular kid, the other popular kid who was kind of like a bully in some ways in high school, sees that and for some reason becomes threatened by you a little bit. And he starts or she starts, you know, spreading rumors and whispers about you that are really false just to kind of discredit you and just to make you look bad out of jealousy or whatever.

you know, being vindictive or whatever it is, right? And they start spreading all these rumors. And that's kind of how, in a nutshell, I see what's playing out between the US and China. You know, the US is that bully, that popular kid. China's becoming more popular, right?

And all these kind of, there's like a huge disinformation campaign. And, you know, if that was a documentary and you were watching that, you removed yourself from high school and you were watching that as a documentary playing out, you would be angry. You would be outraged. You'd be like, wait a minute, someone should stand up and speak out because these are lies. And this kid is, you know, this kid is kind of innocent here and being, you know, like bullied.

And someone should speak out and stand up and do so. And that's how I see you. That's how I see people like you. I had Matt Gallat on the show from Jio Nation. People like Daniel Dumbrell. Like, you guys, I see you guys as the people who are standing up and speaking out right now. So, I mean, does that portrait, is that accurate for you on your side and in the way you see it?

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I really have this vision that one day I can really help be a part of bringing the US and China closer together. You know, I don't know if that's possible. I'm an optimist. I definitely believe it is. You know, that's at least what I'm shooting for. I mean, I really do feel that's the purpose of the YouTube channel. And it just comes down, I think what you really said there as well is true is, you know, you look at the United States

I mean, it's a it's a great country and there's many great things that are that are from America, many great things that are happening. Obviously, the people in America are very great, you know, but it's just interesting because when you look at the media side, you know, they're just we don't really know a lot about.

other countries around the world. And I think that's something that, you know, you could probably attest to as a fellow American, you know, growing up in America. I have something that's really interesting and a good analogy. I'm actually going to use this in a future video for my YouTube channel. But, you know, I grew up in Florida and, you know, and for example, I never traveled to the country of Canada at any time. And again, Florida is quite far away from Canada. What was interesting was, you know, growing up in school, I mean, we never learned

anything, not a single fact about Canada growing up. And it was, and of course my wife is Canadian. That's why I'm living here in Canada now. And it was amazing because when I first went to Shanghai, my roommate at the time was a Canadian guy and he was from Ontario. And I never forget, you know, he's, I'm like, where are you from? You know, Toronto and, you know, Toronto area. And I'm like, oh yeah, you know, I've always wanted to go to the capital city of Canada.

He's like, the capital city, the capital city is Ottawa. And I was just so embarrassed by that. And then I thought to myself, I'm like, that's hilarious. I'm like, here I am, an American, you know, a highly educated American. You know, I mean, I've graduated from an American university, but literally at no point had I ever learned, you know, the capital of Canada, you know, in my entire school studies, you know, because we just know nothing about

our closest trading partner, literally the country that we share a 4,000 mile long border with. I mean, we don't know anything about. And so I think, for example, if you don't know anything, if Americans don't really know anything about Canada, gosh, of course, they're not going to know anything about China. You know, I mean, you know, and so I think that's really, again, you know, and that's something that I also, you know, take for a grain of salt as well, because I do realize that, for example, you know,

I have some family members that, you know, when they see my content and they're just like, wow, like, I just don't know really how to comprehend what you're saying, Cyrus, because everything you're saying is completely opposite to what's being portrayed in Western media. So it's just so foreign for me to hear this. You know, I don't really know how to process that. And for them, I get it. I'm like, hey, I get it. You know, if I never had the chance to go to China and I stayed in Florida my entire life,

there's probably a good chance that I wouldn't really have a very positive image of China in my mind. You know, but obviously it's because I have an open mind. I went to China. And like you said to yourself there, you saw how things have changed over the years where these Western media reports and these

you know, these insights into China, you know, a lot of them are very inaccurate. And, you know, and again, it's just completely unlike what you've experienced. And again, you can just go there on holiday. I mean, during my 10 years in China, I probably had over 20 friends over these 10 years, you know, would come out, visit me. And every single one of them left with a very different experience than what they thought it would be.

I mean, China really blew their mind away. And the only reason, again, they came was because they knew me. And so it was neat because I said, wow, I've been able to help these people see a little bit more of the world. And even if they came for a two-week holiday, they were able to have a different perception. Now, of course, people like you and I have lived in China for over 10 years. We've seen, especially the economic boom and just how people's lives are improving very much in China.

And, you know, I mean, even, you know, and it's just kind of battling the stereotypes. I mean, I've had people here in Canada, you know, Chinese people are slaves. You know, Chinese people, you know, they're scared to go out on the streets. I'm like, that's interesting you'd say that. Have you been to China?

no, I mean, why would I want to go there? It's like, well, you probably should because people aren't that. That's not an accurate portrayal of China at all. And my always, what I'm saying, I always like to say is there's a lot of happiness in China. There's a lot of happiness. There's a lot of, you know, optimism. And these are the stories and the insights that I try to bring into the channel. You know, and what I want to share is because I said, no, if you think that, you know, China is a dark and gloomy place and that people aren't happy and that, you know, they're,

quote unquote slaves, you know, you really need to get on a plane and get out there and go experience it. I mean, even if it's just for two, we call it, that's great. I mean, you'll be able to, you'll be able to have different perceptions and different experiences, you know, just from a two week holiday. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I mean, I've, I've had friends that came out here to visit me for the first time from the States and, you know, they were just blown away. They were just blown away. They were like, Oh man,

okay i didn't i didn't think this was china oh yeah okay well it's just like it's just like the states it's just like new york you know like so i'm like yeah you know like like we can do the same things you know so it's like especially shanghai right about a great city and to be clear right like we have to be we have to be fair here shanghai well first tier cities in general do not represent all of china right so that's true and that's a good point cities very very good point to make

But I mean, you made a really interesting point that really hit the nail on the head for me in terms of how I felt was that the frustration really comes from that in many situations, I feel like the truth is exactly polar opposite to what is being the story and broadcasted out west, right? And so when you try to tell people

how it is here, we end up sounding like the conspiracy theorists. You know what I mean? - Correct. - Because it's so like 180 degrees opposite from what they're told. They're like, how could that be? Like I get, okay, the media spins things, but it can't be completely a fiction, right? - Right. - And you're like, well, like, well, yeah, it kind of is because of this, this and this, and this is my experience. And this is the experience of people that I know throughout China and all different cities.

And we end up sounding like the crazy ones. And that's very frustrating. It's funny, but it's very frustrating at the same time. I agree. I mean, it is very frustrating. And again, some people think that

You know, I think it's really hard to believe it. And actually, you know, one of the best comments that I ever received in my YouTube channel that really kind of hits the nail on the head with this one is somebody somebody commented and said, Cyrus, you know, the way that I discovered your channel on YouTube was one day I had an epiphany. I was just it just hit me. It's like every single comment.

news article or headline that I've ever seen in Western media about China has been negative.

And I mean, if again, if I'm just looking at these negative headlines, I mean, China is a terrible place. But on the other hand, I see all these Chinese international students coming. You know, we see Chinese people traveling all over the world. You know, we see them buying investments, houses. We see their economy rising. People are going to China to invest. So, again, like it's it was first of all, it raised a yellow flag to me. I'm like, how can every news headline be negative?

yet we're what we're actually seeing with chinese people you know around the world and their actions and you know then how china's you know basically the economy just continues to grow and grow every single year is like something didn't add up and then i went to your channel and i'm like you know i probably need to go find another piece of resource to try to get the other half of the story and then i stumbled upon your youtube channel and i'm like oh

there it is. There's the other half of the story. And now, and, but it was his intuition thinking, basically thinking there's no way that everything can be negative. Right. That was basically his point. He's like, literally everything I've consumed in Western media about China is negative. And that just can't make sense. Like there has to be something positive about China. Right. And then of course, you know, he went to YouTube and I think that's, what's been really neat about this, you know, this experience of, you know, you mentioned, you know, Matt with, uh,

with Jio Nation and a lot of the other China vloggers. I mean, there's many people now vlogging about China. And it's really interesting because, I mean, we're all incredibly grateful that we have these social media platforms that allow us to share our insights and perspective. And I think it's really important as well

Because social media has become so powerful. And even just a regular guy like myself, now that has a voice in this domain or this area to talk about in China, it really, I think it helps. And I'm incredibly, I always say I'm very humbled by this because we do get so much

um outreach and support you know from you know just fans you know just i mean the amount of emails and and messages and texts and everything you know from people just saying we really appreciate you being a voice you know for china thank you for doing what you're doing thank you for speaking out for the chinese you know you know just really incredibly grateful for all the work you do and that's that's really motivating you know to have people reach out and send you a nice email like that

What's the approximate demographic of your viewers? I'd be curious to know, you know, in terms of outside of China and inside China.

Yeah, that's a really good one. And to be honest, I'd like to know that as well, because obviously YouTube is currently blocked in China. So you'd have to access that through a VPN. So I don't think you can't really get an accurate count of how many people are accessing that within the country of China. They would obviously be on a VPN if they are.

That being said, you know, I'm certainly, you know, a lot of Chinese overseas, a lot of overseas Chinese would certainly be watching the channel. But it's interesting enough. I mean, we have the demographics of my channel is about 25 percent are based in the US. Canada is number two at around 20.

13%. And then the other, the running at the top five are Malaysia, Singapore, and Hong Kong, or the other, the other regions that are, you know, very popular on the channel. I get a lot of Malaysia support, a lot of Chinese obviously living in Malaysia and then Singapore, Hong Kong, you know, the Chinese city of Hong Kong. So it's, it's, it's really interesting, you know, to see the different dynamics and, um,

you know, from people, but I, but I've, I've really also, I think, you know, some people might even speculate, okay, maybe Cyrus, all of his viewers are just Chinese, but I actually have a tremendous amount of non-Chinese as well. And I've been able to connect with a lot of people. And I think, you know, I've, I've, I love having people that come to the channel with constructive arguments. Um, you know, some people come and they really, you know, just try to blast you with profanity and

And again, that's not very rare. I mean, that's, that is very rare. It's part of the game. It's part of the YouTube game. It's part of the game. I mean, you're never going to, you're never going to please everybody as a content creator. And I learned that earlier, you know, it doesn't matter what you're talking about. I remember I, you know, I was doing the ketogenic diet for a little bit of time and, you know, I went on YouTube to find some ketogenic channels and I was looking through the comments and man, these guys get blasted. I'm like, geez, they're just talking about a diet, you know? But I'm like, if these guys are going to get blasted about

you know, talking about keto, you can imagine me getting busted. Of course, I'm going to get busted. I'm talking about China, which is a very sensitive topic for many. But that being said, I mean, I would say, you know, the overwhelming majority of supporters and, and, you know, comments that come through are very positive in nature. And I think for me is, you know, I try to, I really try to be fact based, you know, a lot of my videos, if you watch them,

You know, they're very much, you know, pulling up articles that I've read, you know, quotes from people, you know, tying different things in and trying to relate it back to my experiences in China and, you know, in sharing that. So I think that's, you know, I think that's really, you know, important as well. Oh, for sure. I mean, there's a few things here. Number one, what you just said is.

I always had the feeling, an impression that you were much more analytical in the way you break things down, right? Someone like Matt, he's, I feel like he's just more intuitive. He just kind of speaks from his experiences and he can kind of just go off the cuff. You're much more analytical and I love it. I love how you break things down with specific examples. You have sources and references and it's good and it's important. And to your other point before about the demographic of your channel,

I think that's great. I think that it's great that most of your audience is outside of China because I feel those are the people that you need to reach the most. Because otherwise, if you're just talking to Chinese, you're kind of preaching to the choir, right? I mean, they know. 100%, 100%. Yeah, and actually, you know, what's really interesting is...

I started on social media. I actually started on Chinese social media first. So I started a Douyin account in November of 2019. Douyin is the Chinese TikTok for any of the listeners that don't know. So I started a Chinese TikTok in November 2019. And I was inspired because I have a buddy of mine that's in Shanghai.

And, you know, I think he got around, he has around 50,000 followers on that. And he was just telling me about his journey. And I thought, you know what? Like, I really miss China. You know, I'd like to, it'd be fun to just speak some Chinese and make some funny videos. And so, you know, I started off on that and I was just talking about what I was doing in Vancouver. And then all of a sudden, you know, I started making some comedy videos and just started talking about this. And, you know, very quickly, you know, gained a couple hundred thousands of followers on Douyin.

And that's been the interesting thing as well, because, you know, my doing videos were very popular because I love doing comedy skits and kind of, you know, and what my whole thing was always talking about the difference between Western and Eastern culture and just sharing, you know, interesting insights.

And so, you know, for example, I mean, I remember doing one on like, you know, why Westerners like to use, you know, a washing machine or a dryer and then Chinese don't, right? Chinese typically hang their clothes out to dry. And so people just thought that was so funny. So it was really cool to do that. But then again, that's when that tipping point happened where I just said, hold on a second, you know, I love doing the funny videos, but

what's more important like i need to i really need to come out here and talk about china like so i almost kind of shifted my focus and and you know i think this is what's interesting is a lot of my you know chinese fans they don't know me for being analytical and serious they know me for being this funny guy that makes funny videos and kind of entertaining that's hilarious and

And now a lot of, and I've actually, I'm really bad at this. You know, I've been inactive on Douyin for like two months now. And I've actually had some Chinese fans that message me on YouTube and they're just, you know, like text, you know, writing to me in Chinese. And it's like, why did you leave Douyin? He's like, we need you back. Don't always be on YouTube every day. Come on, man. You know? And, but I kind of felt the same thing. I'm like, you know, my passion right now is YouTube because I feel I need to bring this message to people.

the foreigners, right? I feel like I'm on a really good path right now, trying to help more people understand China. And I know that people are really enjoying this message and it is getting outside. The word is spreading outside of China, which is the goal, right? I mean, the goal, you know, I always say this on many of my videos and it's the, it's

the banner on my YouTube channel. And that is when, you know, when the United States and China work together, the entire world wins. And that's, that's really kind of the phrase, the catchphrase and really the philosophy behind my whole channel is, you know, I love America. I'm American. You know, I have a great passion for my country. I have a great passion for the country of China. I love China. I mean, it is a fantastic country and I want these two to work together because I remember what I went in 07 to China and

And, you know, it was a really great time to be in China. I mean, I couldn't have picked a better year to go as, you know, Beijing hosted the 2008 Olympics. Shanghai had the World Expo in 2010. I mean, in this period, kind of 2007 to 2013, when I was living in Shanghai, I mean, this was a golden age of being an expat in China. And certainly just to be able to witness firsthand this huge economic growth, uh,

I mean, look at the city of Shanghai. When I went there in 07, there was four metro lines, four or maybe six. I think it was maybe six metro lines in 2007. I think they just opened five and six. I mean, I think there's 30 now, maybe 40 now. I mean, it's just incredible how much that's expanded and changed.

Yeah. Just as an aside, you're actually, you're pretty big on Toutiao too, which is another Chinese app. Kind of like a Chinese news app. And funny story, my dad, and my dad doesn't really know that I do this podcast. He has no idea that I'm having you on as a guest. And he often sends me links to your videos, your clips on Toutiao. Yeah. So it's funny. So it's like,

And this kind of touches on another thing in that, you know, there's this common myth, right? And, you know, talking about Chinese myths, there's this common myth that, you know, Chinese people are just blocked off from any outside information. And obviously, yes, a lot of Western sites are censored here. A lot of Western social media is censored here. That's true.

But the idea that they're kind of completely blocked off from like outside worldly information and news is preposterous. I mean, I live here in Shanghai and I can tell you myself that I'm

I watch Fox News. I watch CNN. I watch MSNBC. You know, I watch The Hill. I watch, I even seen OAN. You know what I mean? Like, and of course, I'm on YouTube all the time, social media. And obviously, okay, you can do that through VPN. But a lot of that news still gets through even from Chinese broadcasts, right? So, you know, Chinese people, and I've talked to them, they are very savvy and up to date on

American news and American politics, current events there. I mean, they know all about it. So it's- 100%. So this idea that they're kind of like in the dark and, oh, if only we can reach them and show them the light is really preposterous.

It is. And it's, and we always say that's the savior mentality, right? And that is, that is, that is the argument that I, that I have gotten into on, you know, on Twitter and on YouTube with some, some people before, you know, just, just talking exactly about that. And I, and I made this analogy in my, in some previous videos of just talking about, you know, many people in the West, I think because of the name of communism, you know, communism is a, is a word that is feared.

in America. It is a word that is, you know, I think I personally think people equate it with being 100 percent evil. You know, so I mean, as soon as you hear communism, I mean, the worst images pop up into your mind. And I mean, we are taught, you know, from a very early age in America, you know, that anything communist cannot be trusted. It is bad. It is evil. And and I think and I think I've always said, you know, I think China really needs to potentially go through like I think they need to rename the party.

Because it's not really a communist country in that sense. It's communist by name. We know it better as socialism with Chinese characteristics. I think there's a lot more capitalism and freedoms that are allowed in China's system than what that term is.

that archaic term, you know, that unfortunately is a stereotype in America that many people simply just assume. And I think that's, and, you know, especially growing up in Florida, right? I mean, we're very close to, you know, 90 miles away from Cuba and, you know, we're, we're taught of the Cuban history and the fact that, look, these people have nothing. Communism ruined their lives. You know, they're, you know, this entire country is, is just basically, uh,

destitute. There's no hope down there in Cuba because of Fidel Castro. Again, this is why we have democracy and this is why America is number one. That's the lesson that I learned growing up in America. I agree with you as far as

You know, there's many reasons that there's censorship in China, but it's amazing how well versed the Chinese are on the political situation in America. I mean, every Chinese person knows that we have the freedom of speech in America.

I mean, they know that we have a democratic system. They know that we can vote for our president. They know that you can protest in in America. I mean, they're not stupid. You know, they have these insights. And I always say it's like, unfortunately, because of its communism, we automatically assume that China is exactly like North Korea.

And this is, you know, and this is the biggest interesting thing is I see, you know, when Americans go down this road and they start lecturing me on like, this is what's happening in China. I'm like, no, you've got the wrong country. Everything you've just described, that's North Korea and North Koreans. They're blocked from the world. They have no idea what's going on in America. They have no idea about freedoms and all of these things, you know, and they have a very low quality of life and, you know, food problems and all of all of this stuff, you know, that the country you've just described is North Korea.

So that country does exist. It's just not called China. Yeah. And you're absolutely right. Like, you know, like we talk about, you know, often we talk about like the economic rise of China and how, you know, it's booming economically and people are earning more money and the middle class is growing and stuff like that. And I feel like for most people, most kind of thoughtful people, when you say that, they're like, yeah, I can understand that. I see that. I know that.

but it's still an evil country, right? So it's like, yeah, you know, economically the country is doing good, but it's still evil. And that goes back to that whole idea that we're kind of brainwashed with growing up in, especially in a country like America, but even in its ally countries is the red commies, you know, the red scare. It's the Cold War mentality of communism is this evil thing. And I equate it to,

You know, I see the democratic ideology as kind of like Christianity during the Crusades, right? Right. And that's not to say anything negative about democracy or Christianity, right? I mean, it works. The thing is, when you try to launch a crusade where you're trying to spread this ideology, just like the Christians were, to other people that didn't worship the Christian God—

and went to war with basically any group or community or nation that wasn't worshiping their God or their ideology, they were viewed as barbarians. They were viewed as the enemy. They were just not godly people. They were savages. - Right. - And that was the idea of kind of spreading Christianity around. I kind of really see, honestly, I don't think it's that even extreme to draw parallels between that kind of crusade

with how America and its allies view democracy. I mean, they are trying to force a system of government on the entire world and using it as a shield of like, well, this is freedom. This is your liberty. This is freedoms, right? And I saw this video, I saw a clip and I forgot who said it. I wish I can name the source right now. But to kind of...

echo what they said, which I thought was really, really spot on was that, you know, let's say Americans, when we feel, when we think of freedom, when we think of things like human rights, we think of being able to put your ballot in the ballot box, being able to vote for your president. We think of, we think of free speech. These are things that we as Americans value as

what represents freedom to us, right? - Correct. - And that's great. And he's like, well, the Chinese, they have a different definition of what they value as freedoms for them. What freedom means to them is being able to have a job,

Being able to put food on the table and not starve, right? Absolutely. Being able to own a house. Being able to go to school and being safe in their country where they don't have to worry about gun violence and being shot on the street. And so kind of like a lifestyle and quality of life. Things that have to do with that is what they see as freedom. Correct.

And I think that was absolutely spot on. And that really aligns with my experience here. When you ask, you know, most Chinese people, like, what is your freedoms? They want to know that they can get a job and get paid and provide for their family and get a house and, you know, do what they want to do. And for them, you know, whether to be kind of political or to be able to vote or quote unquote have freedom of speech, which Chinese people do have freedom of speech. It's not like they don't.

is not like the top of their priority list. They have different priorities than, let's say, American values. And that's just a difference. It's not good or bad or right or wrong. It's just different values. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more on that. And the fact is, and that's what I always say that it's so important to understand when we're talking about United States and China relationship is that there is a tremendous amount of cultural elements that come into play here.

And I never forget, you know, I had a close Chinese family that I knew in Shanghai and their oldest son, you know, he went to America for one year, you know, for university, came back. And I remember seeing him after one year. And I said, you know, what's what was your experience? How did you like America? What's the biggest takeaway that you had? And, you know, the first thing he said to me is like.

there's too much freedom in America, you know, that like there's, and I was like, wow, like, like that's so counterintuitive, right. For a Western. Yeah, it is. Right. And, and, you know, I mean, it really made me like, wow, that's a very deep statement, very simple, but very deep statement. And, you know, he, and I think for him, you know, his, his mindset was very much in the, in the same mentality. I mean, again, like he was at a very nice university. I think he was in Chicago somewhere. Um,

You know, he was in a good university, obviously a great opportunity for him, you know, to, you know, for his, you know, for his future career, obviously to go to America. But again, like you, like you had said, it comes down to different things. For example, I mean, I know I have some, I grew up in Florida. I got, I have some friends that very much value the second amendment. I mean, they're absolutely adamant about owning a gun and just thinking that that is really, that is what provides them a very high feeling of safety.

And knowing that they can have a gun in their car, they can have a gun in their house, they can fire it, they can go to shooting ranges. And that's a freedom that I have as an American. And the interesting thing as well is they also say,

Well, the other reason that we have is just in case the government gets out of line, you know, because, you know, if they get out of line, we can take things into our own hands. Yeah. Which I which I which I never really understood that argument because I'm like, we have the most powerful military in the world. Like China's number two. And they're not even close to being, you know, at the same level of U.S. I mean, it's not even close.

And yet we think as like civilians, you're going to have a gun and you're going to be able to throw over the United States government. Like, I mean, come on, like, let's just be realistic. It doesn't make sense that argument to me at all. But again, like Chinese people, they don't value owning a gun. You know, for them, it's like, well, why do we need guns for protection if we just live in a society that doesn't have guns?

And we don't need guns, you know, problem solved. And so, again, I mean, you have a very big cultural difference. I mean, obviously, it's impossible to get guns out of society in America. So I guess you can make the argument that, well, maybe you do need a gun in America because there's guns everywhere, you know. But and again, I think that's that's and that was something that I remember every time when I jumped into a taxi, you know, into a taxi in Shanghai or anywhere in China. And, you know, one of the inevitable questions are, you know, where are you from? I'm from America, you know.

i'd say more than half of the time the next question was did you have a gun you know and i think for chinese people it's just like yeah wow american like what do you think about that they'd love to talk about that because you know it was just an interesting thing and you know i asked them like what do you think about them it's like oh

I'm glad we don't need it. You know, we're safe here. Look, look at the safety here. And I think that's that. And so again, so much of it really comes down to cultural differences. And I think, you know, again, like when we talk about the voting, you know, and, and people argue all the time, Cyrus, one man, one vote, it's the best system. It's the most fairest system. It's the best. Um,

But again, China just doesn't value that because at the end of the day, I remember somebody, I remember Chinese asking me like, "Is it true? Like you're an American, you can actually vote for the president of the United States?" Absolutely. Yeah, that is certainly a right that I have as an American citizen.

And I remember the Chinese is like, that must be a very difficult decision. I mean, like you. I mean, that is such an important decision for your country. You must be doing a lot of research, you know, like trying to figure out, like, you know, what is their experience? What is the plans? I mean, sure, they have like different plans they want to propose. You've got to compare. You've got to analyze. I mean, you probably need to do a lot of research. Like, you're very smart because.

Ideally, yes, it should have a lot of research like you, but it actually is more of a popularity contest. What do you mean? Well, it essentially comes down to like, I like this dude. He's saying something really cool. Like I like him. And I said, look, this is why Donald Trump won the 2016 election. I mean, hands down.

I mean, experience wise, he had he had no experience compared to Hillary Clinton. I mean, she's a career politician. She was really destined to be the first female president of the United States. But the thing is, she's not entertaining. I mean, she's very boring. I mean, she's your standard, you know, just, you know, career politician, if you will.

And I think when you look at Donald Trump, he was able to immediately resonate with the people in America. Why? Because he just spoke like an average American. He wasn't that polished, distinguished politician that we're so used to seeing all the time. Right. You go, you watch Joe Biden, you know, on stage.

I mean, he's been doing this for 47 years. You know what you're going to get, you know, but Donald Trump, you never knew what you're going to get. It was entertainment. It was great. It was, it was, it was, it was a hundred percent entertainment and the average person can identify with that in America.

And so, yeah, I said, you know, so I said, yeah, if you think that we're looking at, you know, their resumes and their credentials and trying to really determine who's going to be the best president, it doesn't necessarily it doesn't work out like that for 99 percent of the voters. You know, they're they're going to go on, you know, who they like better, you know, and and again, like this is why Donald Trump won. You know, and I think that was something that I had mentioned as well as, you know, it's been interesting these last few years, I think, for China's government.

You know, as America, you know, we had and I'm not going to get into politics if you like Donald Trump or not. You know, it doesn't doesn't really matter. Obviously, he was the president. He's not anymore. But I think that, you know, there were certainly some rocky times for America during that during that time. And I think you saw a lot of people in China saying.

wow, it's really good. We have a good system here. It's a system based on meritocracy. The only way that you can rise inside the Communist Party of China is you have to have proven results. I mean, look at the resume of Xi Jinping. I mean, it's pretty impressive what he has done in his career. And again, his father was a high-ranking communist official. That did not help Xi Jinping at all. I mean, he started at the bottom and worked his way up. It took him 37 years in order for him to become the president of China.

you know, looking at the different works. I mean, you spent a lot of time in the Fujian province doing a lot of deals with Taiwan, you know, and, you know, I mean, everything is, you know, it's very much, and I think, you know, you know this analogy as far as a company, right? You know, if Steve Jobs is getting ready to leave Apple, we're not gonna have an election. Hey, who wants to be the next CEO? You know, you're gonna bring in somebody, you know, Tim Cook, you know, he's been groomed for this position. He has the experience, the credibility,

This guy is the time. I mean, you can't get anybody to just run Apple. I mean, you're going to need somebody very qualified. And this is exactly what China is doing, you know, bringing in high level people, very qualified, great resumes, extensive experience. And again, the only way that you're moving up in that system is you got to produce the results.

I mean, I can't believe you said that because that's, I've, I've said that exact same thing time and time again. It's, it's the idea of, you know, when you're, you're not going to have a democratic election for the next CEO of, of a public company. You know what I mean? You're, you're, you're not going to have the secretary, the interns, the, the night janitor, you know, the, the, the kid that just first day on the job, you know, you're not going to have all these people have cast a vote.

You're going to have, it's going to come down to a board of people who are intimately, intimately tied with the company who knows all the company's goings and ongoings and a future vision and have been with the company. And they're, they're going to decide, right? I mean,

And that is, that is kind of, that is pretty much communism. Like what you said is, you know, communist leaders, they don't come out of nowhere. They're not like all of a sudden, Hey, we kind of like this guy. Let's, let's vote for him. Let's push him up. They are groomed, they are tested and they are proven through their entire lifetime of work, starting from the bottom to get to that position, you know? So it's like,

So, like you said, it's not a popularity contest. And the whole idea of kind of democracy, one man, one vote is, you know, I agree with it in many ways, but even in America, it's not truly a democracy. I mean, you know, we're opening up a whole can of worms that we don't need to get into right now. But if you look at the election...

If you look at the electoral college, I mean, it's a sham. You know, it's not really one man, one vote. You know, there are systems put in place where, you know, it's just, it's controlled and it's manipulated in many ways. But anyway, now I sound like a conspiracy nut, but I mean, just look it up. One thing I do want to get into with you, though, is that

One of your videos that I really like is titled "How Western Media Shapes Our Perspective on China." Yeah.

I mean, we're kind of going back to kind of the main topic, you know, we want to talk about at first is kind of the imbalance in the narrative. And, you know, I want you to kind of share a little bit of your thoughts on that because you break it down really, really well. And the reason is because I feel a lot of the misunderstandings, number one, like what you said, are things that don't translate well culturally, right?

So there's a lot of misunderstandings and things that are being lost in translation in terms of cultural differences. And so for people who don't know those cultural differences, they're like, oh, well, that's just really bad because that's not how I think about things. Those are not my values. So I kind of want to get your take on the whole Western media thing.

And I think there are really relevant ties with what's happening currently in the United States as well with that as well. So can you share a little bit about that video? And I mean, I just thought it was really insightful. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think...

That video was interesting because it was really my response to this Asian hate crime that we've seen in America that has been growing very steadily. It's extremely alarming. It's been amazing because my wife is Chinese and

You know, she both of her grandmothers are still alive. They're still still living in good health. And I think when she was seeing these images of these poor Chinese grandmothers walking down the street in San Francisco or Oakland and being attacked and pushed and, you know, assaulted, you know, it really hit her in her heart. Just like, my gosh, like I have a grandmother that age, you know, that is just so scary, you know, that, you know,

you know, that, you know, this is somebody's grandmother that is just getting attacked for the color of their skin. And, you know, we saw the, you know, the, unfortunately the incident in Atlanta as well. And I, and I said, the whole thing is all related because again, you know, I have to take myself out of being an expat for 10 years and having a really unique insight into China. I'm going to put myself back to being just a Florida boy that had never traveled to China. And then, you know, just being in that little bubble, that Florida bubble,

And, you know, and again, like I have a lot of friends that are from, you know,

you know, in my hometown that have never left. And, you know, I can imagine their views of China are very different than mine. And again, it is just comes down to that experience. But again, when you look at Western media and how they're portraying China, and there's a couple of examples in that video that I'll bring up again, because I think they're really relevant. When you look at, for example, with coronavirus, you know, COVID-19, when that started happening, it was basically a year ago, New York Times published two articles. The first one was published at 1030 a.m.

And it talked about China is locking down the economy. You know, it's locking down its citizens. It's it is, you know, not allowing them to travel. It's costing the livelihood of these Chinese people. And they picture the image they chose was this shopkeeper in China, very dimly lit. You know, the shopkeeper has their head down. You know, I mean, you look at this and it's a very sad and gloomy perspective. I mean, you just glance through the headline. You're like, wow, these Chinese people are suffering.

And then literally 20 minutes later on the exact same day, New York Times publishes Italy is now shutting down. They're going to sacrifice the economy because they're going to do their best job to handle this virus. And then you and you and you kind of see in their image that they chose was the Italian prime minister's kind of standing at a press conference, kind of looking like, you know, almost like a hero.

And, and I said, you know, the interesting thing is, is people aren't going to be able to pick that up, but this is, this is what's happening is subconsciously, you know, you're, you're just reading this article. Oh man, geez, look at China. It's terrible. There's people don't have freedom over that. Oh,

look at Italy. Oh, good for them. They're doing what they need to do. So there's a little bit of bias that's just been planted into your mind there without you even really knowing that. And then you look at all of these articles that get published and they have these very negative spins against China. And a lot of it's just simple words. I mean, even the simple thing of

the Chinese regime. I hate that word regime because when you say the word regime, again, and I mentioned this in the video, is when you say the word regime, if you look it up in the dictionary, it means a form of government.

Okay, that's the literally dictionary definition. But when you actually, you know, as we know in the English language and context, when you say regime, you're really implying almost that that government's not legit. That's not a legitimate government. Or we need to eventually overtake that government, or we should overthrow that government. We need to put in a more democratic and peaceful government. You know, if China was a democracy, we wouldn't be calling it a regime.

But by labeling it that, again, negative connotation, you're immediately thinking, you know, China in a negative light as a result. Absolutely. Absolutely. 100%. And so, you know, and then it was just, you know, the problem is, is on...

On social media, I remember seeing earlier in the year, there was a video from Africa. And there was a bunch of African kids, and they were singing some song in Chinese. And I think somebody's like, look at these poor children in Africa, being forced to learn the Chinese language. You know, this is colonialism 2.0 by China, going to Africa and enslaving these children. I think the video was crazy. It had like over a million views. I mean, it was so popular on Twitter. And

And I said, this is the problem with social media right now. First of all, this is like a 15 second clip. We have no context behind this.

You know, and I'm like, first of all, I mean, these kids are learning the most popular language in the world. You know, if you're if you're from Africa and you're learning to speak Chinese, like good on you. Like that's going to that's going to do you well in your life. You know, learning Chinese is a great asset to have. But I mean, it's just amazing that people can be like, I can't believe this is what China is doing. You know, and I'm like, what, making them learn Chinese? And we don't even know if they're making them. I mean, again, this is just this is a random 15 second clip that we have no context behind, you

you know, and I mean, I saw another one, there's a very negative guy on Twitter that's very anti-China. I remember, you know, he had this video again, about 10 seconds long, never too long because, you know, it wouldn't, it wouldn't serve their purpose. And it's, it's literally these guys with shovels, you know, picking up all these broken cell phones. And he's just like, you know, there's, you know, millions of phones have been lost in Wuhan.

I can only imagine the death toll millions and millions of, right. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, the image, the video is such poor quality. You can't even really tell if it's in China or not. You, and again, it's, you don't even know if this is in Wuhan. You don't even know where this is from, but all of a sudden, you know, we're meant to believe like, oh my gosh, like all these people like, and it doesn't even make sense. So, so,

So you're assuming that a million people died of COVID, but yet all of it. But do you do you drop your phone off in the in the in the parking lot before you die? Like magically everyone's phones in one spot. Like it just doesn't make sense to me at all. You know, I mean, if you just think about it, you know, logically. And the last example that I'll give here is, you know, it was just it was a very recent one that I read on New York Times yesterday.

It said, China just released its fifth vaccine, and it's made from hamster ovary cells. And I called my dad up, and I told him this. And I just said, and I was like, hey, I read this new article. This is what it's called. And he's like, what? And I said, yeah, that was my reaction, too. Like, why would China be using hamster ovary cells? But then I actually did some research, and I found out that hamster ovary cells is actually

the universal practice in the world. This technique of using hamster ovary cells is how you make proteins for these vaccines. It was actually developed in a Boston laboratory in 1957, believe it or not. And again, this is universally used. This is a biologist that shared this information. And she's like, that headline is racist because you're basically wanting people to assume that China's doing weird stuff with animals. That's the goal, right? You could easily-

I'm sorry. Yeah, this was an American scientist, right? Dr. Sandra Steingreber or something like that? That's right. Yeah, Dr. Sandra Steingreber. Yeah, I saw your video because she tweeted out. She's like, hold on, guys. This is what we do. This is what all the labs do when they're creating vaccines. Hamster ovary cells are universal and completely common practice for anyone in this field.

And see, this is the subtle bias that you have in Western media, because what the New York Times wrote is completely true. It is an accurate statement.

China did release its fifth vaccine and it is made from hamster ovary cells. But guess what? America's vaccines are made from that too. If that's, if that's, I'm not a biologist, but if this is what this biologist says is the universal practice, then it is as well. But again, you, this is how you have to really see how Western media is playing this game because they very subtly putting in these little hints and they're just making you, you know, you know, basically, you know, basically making you hate China.

And, and, you know, that's, that's really the goal is to make you dislike China no more. And that's kind of something that I'm really trying to focus on with my, you know, with my talk show, real talk China is that I'm, I'm bringing in guests, you know, from the have on the ground experience in China. And I'm really excited for my next guest we're filming in a couple of days. Um, um,

Basically, he's an entrepreneur that is working for a, I believe it's a Finnish company. Maybe I think he's Finnish. It's a Swedish company. And they're basically partnering with the Chinese government to help disabled people in China. And China's government is investing a lot of money building these rehab centers. He's actively in this business. This is his passion is helping disabled people. And he has a tremendous support from the government of China.

And I'm like, this is an amazing story. Like what you're doing, your work is phenomenal. And like, of course, would New York Times or any Western publication, would they wanna feature that article? Of course not, because it's positive about China. Like wait, China's government's helping disabled people. They're investing money into the society. They're partnering with this Swedish company to do all of these great things that are actually gonna help people's lives.

Well, that's not a good story. I mean, how are we going to spin that in a negative way? Right. So I'm like, well, that's where I'm going to step up. I'm going to get this guy on my YouTube channel and give him a voice and say, look, tell us your story. You know, tell us what the work that you're doing. And that's kind of my angle that I want to do is try to just bring a little bit of perspective, kind of going back to that first point I said.

there is a lot of positive positivity in the country of China. There's a lot of optimism. You know, when you go on the streets of China, you talk to people, you know, are you, are you, how do you feel about China? You know, what do you think five years from now? Well, I think it's gonna be great, you know, because,

I go on past presidents. I mean, look at the last 30 years in China. Every year is getting better and better. Why wouldn't I think the future is going to get better for the country of China? And so I think that's, you know, again, that's a really important thing. I'm glad you brought up that question. I just want people to really understand there is a tremendous bias against China. And I want people to really go out there and seek the other side of the story. And I think that's what all of us on YouTube do.

you know, again, all of us have extensive experience inside the country of China. That's what we're trying to do. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, we're,

People are really quick to believe anything negative that comes out of China. Like, oh, yeah, of course. Well, that's China. But anything positive, they're like, no, no, no, that can't be true. That's propaganda. You know, you can't trust that. Right? Absolutely. And it's hard not to fall into that trap when you're growing up in these Western countries because from, you know, from as a kid, you're just constantly bombarded with this message, this one-sided message. And like you said, and like you gave examples of, it's really like...

carefully like spun so that, you know, sometimes they are telling the truth, like the hamster ovary thing, but they're doing in a way which is so unnecessary. Like you don't need to say that because everyone does that.

But you say it because you want to create this idea that, oh, Chinese people are doing disgusting, weird things and you should hate them for it. You also had another tweet in that video about the WHO, the World Health Organization, the trip they went on recently to Wuhan to investigate the virus, right? The cause and the start of it. And there were a lot of reports that had come out that were like, oh, China's not cooperating with us at all. They weren't sharing any information with us.

And you had a scientist that actually went on that trip, right? And Peter Dasik or something like that, a scientist that actually went on that trip. That was a part of that team.

And he tweeted out, I forgot what he had. Do you have that? Do you have that tweet in front of you? I don't have it in front of me, but it was essentially, you know, he said, that is not what I experienced on this WHO mission. The Chinese colleagues were very open to us. You know, we were able to get unrestricted access. We were able to learn about this, you know, X, Y, and Z. And we did make new pathways in this, you know. And so, again, it was just really, it's really, you know, disheartening to see that, you know, that

Again, like, come on, New York Times, you're better than that. Like, how can you possibly, you know, make something again? And again, this is where I think what's also really interesting is happening is, you know, we're so connected on the Internet. Everybody needs a little clickbait, right? I mean, everyone's trying to, you know, how am I going to get people to click on my article? And again, you know, how can I write, you know, China was very open and welcomed people to do studies in Wuhan. Right.

that's not going to sound good. How can I get people to... China was hiding information again. But then you have the doctors like, guys, literally, I went on the trip. That's not what I experienced at all. And he basically completely refutes what New York Times, the headline said. And again, I think that's... And it's just an interesting tactic. I mean, I had earlier last year,

In November, early November, actually, it was on Halloween, I believe, I had an article written against me on SCMP, South China Morning Post. And it was a very negative nature article written about me. I was covering, I was actually went to the Meng Wanzhou trial, which is actually happening right here in Vancouver. And there was a reporter from SCMP that wrote a very negative piece about me. It was very

It was, you know, it was just a really cheap shot at me. And what was interesting was, is, you know, if you go through the article, you know, everything that he says is, you know, is accurate. I mean, you can say that, you know, the statements are true, but it's again, just how he words it, you know, and he just tried to portray me in a very negative light. And I mean, even simple things like, you know, when he's, you know, just saying like Cyrus is a pro China YouTuber. And then he's like, and he was retweeted.

by the global times which is official state media you know i'm just like well yeah i was retreated by global times but the only reason you put that in the article is because you want to make the you want people to make the assumption oh he's working with he's sponsored by state media you know he's obviously colluding with the chinese foreign guy you know this guy's colluding with the cpc

You want them to connect those dots that are those dots, you know? And it's like, Hey buddy, you're on Twitter all the time. Retweets do not equal endorsements, you know? And I just think it's hilarious that, you know, you know, it's just so petty how he was went through and had all these little technical things and,

But at the end of the day, you know, it was great because, you know, the article brought a lot of exposure. And then I was able to make a YouTube video about the whole experience as well. And, you know, and, you know, he was really honestly, he was trying to bully me. And when I made my YouTube video response, it was a very big response. And then immediately, you know, he's left me alone ever since. And so I think it was quite a good experience for me to go through.

Yeah. I mean, I see it as like there's two, there's kind of two stories going on, right? So it's basically one story, but like, let's say you take a film and you're

One version, you put like this really dark and sinister soundtrack. It's like a drama and it's like a thriller and it's a horror movie. And you put those soundtracks and the lighting and the way you like the film. And so that kind of spins it one way and you get one feeling. And then the other one is like just very kind of more innocent and just...

optimistic, right? And you put that kind of soundtrack to it and you get two completely, based off of like the same general information, you get two completely...

kind of conclusions from it, right? You draw emotionally two very different conclusions. And you're absolutely right about what you said. I did an episode about the social dilemma documentary. Oh, I love that movie. Fantastic. Yeah, it was great. Fantastic movie. And it plays right into what you were saying in terms of this kind of clickbait culture. It's, you know, journalism...

journalism is such a fail right now. It's, it's no longer fact-based reporting and it's, it's more about because everything's on social media now.

Everything's about how do we provoke an emotional response? Because an emotional response will result in a click and will result in longer watch times, right? So it's a formula. It's a formula now that how do we get people angry? How do we make people feel some sort of emotional way about this? So

When that is your formula and that is how you operate, of course you're gonna spin things one way or the other. Of course you're gonna do that because it's done so by design. And it's sad to see and it's frustrating to see. And social media is a double-edged knife. It's a double-edged sword because on one hand, you have people like you on it. And if social media didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to kind of tell your side of the story.

But on the other hand, you know, the whole reason why you feel even a need to tell your side of this story is because of all the social media nonsense that's out there in the first place. Right. And it is, it is, it is very much a double edged sword. And I think it's,

It's something that obviously is not going to go away. Social media is here for the stay. I mean, it is really how our entire world does marketing now and the integral part of our daily lives. But it is, I think you have to look at the positive and there is a lot of positives in it as well. And again, I think we're all of us are very grateful for having this opportunity to be able to go on different platforms, including Chinese platforms to

you know, to make our messages known and, you know, connect. And I think it's just interesting as well. And I think, you know, kind of another thing that's just so funny. I mean, some people make the argument, you know, looking at how these Western countries

Social media sites have been banned in China. And the other thing that is, is, you know, you have to think of China as a country of 1.4 billion people. They have obviously domestic social media sites. So for the majority of people, they're probably going to want to connect on those sites more. You know, I mean, because they're obviously, you know, in Chinese, they're built for Chinese audiences. They have many features that are, you know, obviously popular within Chinese. So, you

You know, it just makes sense. You know, it's not like people's lives are, you know, it's like, oh, you know what? They don't have Facebook in China. How are they going to live? You know, don't worry. They've got many equivalents, you know, and they're doing a good job with their social media as well.

Well, it's like you can turn the question around and ask them, like, would you want to use a Chinese app? You know, and it's like, no, I want to use like my local, like what I'm familiar with. Well, that's what the Chinese people prefer as well. Right. Exactly. I mean, there's a lot of hypocrisy going on. And you mentioned many examples of hypocrisy, you know, a few minutes ago with, you know, the COVID case and the kind of like the Italian prime minister, you know, and how stories are spun. You have

two countries doing the same thing, but one is shining in a positive light and one shining in a very negative light. And another example of that, you know, this was before was during the Hong Kong protests. And, you know, this was before Black Lives Matter, the Black Lives Matter protests in America. And the Hong Kong protests were going on. And

There were a lot of images of that, you know, American politicians. I think the one I'm referring to would be Nancy Pelosi. But, you know, there was a bunch of them from different politicians that tweeted out like, you know, and the images were of like protests and riots going on and the rioters like fighting the police. Right. You know, kind of very not like not very pleasant images to look at.

And the caption by these political American politicians was like, this is beautiful. This is a beautiful scene because they're fighting for democracy. They're fighting for their freedom. This is so beautiful.

Now, months later, the Black Lives Matter movement is going on in America, and there are eerily similar images from the riots in Atlanta and throughout America at the time. That was rioters, masked up, you know, fighting the police. And if you didn't know, you wouldn't really be able to tell which one was Hong Kong, which one was Atlanta, right? There were very similar images. Right.

And the same politicians that were praising and saying how the Hong Kong protests were beautiful were saying about their own domestic protests, this is horrible. This is ugly. This is how can we let this happen? You know, and this should never happen. This is such a despicable thing, you know. And you're looking at it and the hypocrisy of it all.

is just mind blowing. It's mind blowing. And if you're not there really trying to look out for these things, you never know that, you know, you will never catch it in the first place. So it's just, I don't know. I mean, you're never going to be able to stop it, like you said, but it's just, it's so frustrating and it's so silly. Yeah.

You know, it is. And I think, you know, going back to the Hong Kong protests, I mean, it's interesting when you see the you know, that hypocrisy and that double standard with these American politicians in the sense of, you know, they were more interested in the fact that Hong Kong was becoming a major issue. And they hope that that would, you know, basically cause division and struggle within the country of China.

destabilized. They're interested in destabilizing a region. 100%. That's been their playbook. 100%.

you know, the United States wants to see China become weaker. And if protests in Hong Kong are going to cause enough drama that, you know, for example, that this is going to destabilize China, that's probably a good thing for America. So and I think that's why, you know, and that's what that's why I always said, like, you know, it was never about democracy. You know, when an American when Ted Cruz and, you know, Josh Hawley and these guys flew out to Hong Kong and

we stand with the people of Hong Kong. And then basically 12 months later, Ted Cruz is like, well, we're not going to accept anybody from Hong Kong that could be spies from Beijing.

You know, again, like, are you standing with the people of Hong Kong? Are you just accusing them of being spies? Like, you know, again, like you now realize that that protesting effort was completely finished. You know, that's not going to be successful in Hong Kong. So you're not going to be able to destabilize China. So I guess you have lost interest in Hong Kong then, because, again, it wasn't about bringing democracy to Hong Kong people. Again, this is a city that ranked number three on the Worldwide Index for, you know, the Human Freedom Index.

you know, there's a tremendous amount of freedoms. And let's not forget, that's after, you know, being, you know, being handed over to China for 24 years, you know, you know, so I mean, you know, that's, you know, China's, you know, Hong Kong's been under Chinese rule for, you know, 20 plus years. And it's then achieved, you know, the status of being the number three, you know, ranked country or not country, sorry, city, or place, whatever you would call it, city, you know, for, you know, human freedom.

I mean, there, there are so many things that I know, you know, the Hong Kong thing is, is a sensitive issue for a lot. I know people who stand on both sides of that, that issue. But I personally, I'm very much more aligned with where you're coming from and it's,

Yeah, it's this idea that like, to me, when I thought was going on, I'm like, yeah, it really doesn't have anything to do with democracy. And the timing of it was just very suspicious as well, in terms of, you know, the trade wars were happening, the tensions been rising. It's like now after 20 over 20 years, now you're picking this up.

And when Hong Kong was under British rule, Hong Kong citizens didn't have a vote to who could represent them. But under Chinese rule, they actually do have a vote. That's right. So if you're really fighting for democracy, you actually have a more – it's not fully democratic, obviously, but you have a much more democratic system and policy in place under Chinese rule than you did under British rule. So the whole thing was very –

I mean, it just reeked of like just agenda, right? Like Western agenda to destabilize its population. Yeah, it's... I mean, now that Hong Kong, okay, that kind of went down...

And like you said, kind of, I think America sees, okay, well, that's not really going to work. Obviously now the spotlight is on Xinjiang and Xinjiang is that kind of new elephant in the room. Now that new, that new kind of Hong Kong playbook of like, okay, well, how do we, how best do we kind of get in there? Show this to the world and destabilize a region and paint it as like,

evil, right? Like, you know, human rights atrocities, genocide, all these terms are being thrown around. And I'm like, what is going on? Because it's so, it's so far, a lot of it is so far-fetched. I've personally been to Xinjiang. Like, a lot of it is so, so far-fetched. To use terms like genocide is, is preposterous. It's ridiculous. And

But now you see kind of like, oh, okay, I see what's going on. Like, you know, so you try not to get too angry about it because you know what the agenda is there. You know what the playbook, you know what the motives are with them doing that. But at the same time, it's frustrating because most people are believing that narrative. Yeah, absolutely. And I think...

I always say, you know, going back to, you know, again, if you're the average American, you know, you're not going to know very much. You don't you don't know anything about China. And your only source of information is Western media. You know, you're going to you're going to tune into Fox or CNN and you're and that's going to be your insights into China, which is not going to give you an accurate portrayal of the country and the current events and what's really happening inside the country.

So I think that is a really difficult thing. And it just shows you the power of media, because obviously, you know, you know, the U.S. government can spin whatever message they want, you know, and they're going to you know, they're going to keep pumping out these stories about China. And it's going to be interesting to see. I mean, I mean, it's amazing how, you know, looking back on when I started my YouTube channel kind of early 2020, you

You know, and just looking again, like, you know, we had the Hong Kong protests, you know, we had obviously COVID-19 was a huge story that we're still dealing with right now. Obviously not, not anywhere really close to being over with that. You know, now we're going into Xinjiang, you know, we're looking at 2022 Beijing winter Olympics, you know, is going to be the next hot topic. I think that is, that is going to really, you know, be another issue, you know, obviously Biden, you know, we had just had the Alaska meeting as well. So, you know, there's,

there's never a shortage of content to talk about China. And I think it's always going to be, you know, very newsworthy because again, China is going to be a dominant factor in the future of our world, like it or not, you know, if you don't like China or you do, you know, it is going to be a factor for sure. There's a wise man once told me, you know, if you want to just

Calm down and think about things with a critical mind, exercise some critical thinking and use some common sense. Whether, and at the time we were talking about the Hong Kong protests, but this applies to a lot of things. Even Xinjiang, it applies. And the saying is this, it's like, who do you think has more of an interest in seeing

of their country thrive and prosper. Do you think that China has more of an incentive to see Hong Kong thrive and prosper or does America? I mean, it's like, and when you put it in that light, it's like, yeah, well, of course, you know? So it's like,

You know, to think that Americans have more of a motive and are more mission to see part of China thrive and prosper and for people to be happy more than the Chinese government itself. Like, who does that help? Right.

Like who benefits more from that? Obviously the Chinese benefit more from these, these regions of the world doing well. Right. And thrive. Absolutely. You know, I think a lot of it is, is just a little bit of shock and jealousy for us politicians. Cause I think there's almost this thing, like we've, we've been lied to our entire lives. Democracy, not only is the best form of government, it is the only form of government, right?

Right. I'm actually going to use this in a video coming up and, you know, it's, it's,

China has really just proven like, no, you don't need to have democracy. Like there is another way to do that. Now, that being said, I mean, I will definitely say like democracy has helped a lot of countries around the world. There has been a look at the last 60 years and the political systems in the world. You know, there's been a shift to democracy for many countries. So it's not like I'm saying democracy is awful. It's a great form of government and it has been proven successful a lot.

But China has another one as well. And I think that's what is so unique is that China's system is different. You know, it's not going to be, I don't think you can go around the world doing a one-party state like China's. I don't think that's going to fly. But it certainly works for them. You know, and I certainly think their government is doing the best that they can for their citizens. So anyway, that's my two cents on that. You're a man after my own heart, man, because...

Speaking to you gives me so much comfort because a lot of my thoughts and things that I think inside, I feel like, oh, am I the only person that kind of thinks this way? Is this just me? And you go ahead and just say it in such an eloquent way. I'm like, yes, that's exactly what it is. I mean, part of it, I mean, besides the... And I'm not going to keep you here for too long. I know it's getting late over there. But part of besides the economic and competitive threat between these two rival countries now is...

Exactly is, I think, that sense that we cannot allow... And it's not even about China. It's not even about other countries. It's about we cannot let our own citizens feel that...

can work, that there is a form of communism that is working because the narrative have been so long that communism is evil. It's always doomed to fail. Democracy is the only way. And we cannot show any shred of evidence that, oh, wait, there's a successful example right now of communism. And so it's like, we got to shut that down right away. Totally. Totally.

Totally. I mean, and that's, I think that's really what it is at the end of the day. And, you know, I mean, it's, it's just so funny because I look at, um,

You know, one of the I think the dumbest comment that I've ever heard in my life was from Winston when he's driving his car and he's just like, it's better to be poor in America than to be rich in China. And I'm like, dude, that is that is just beyond idiotic. I mean, there's no way anybody could possibly make that argument because you show you show. I mean, that's the thing that's amazing, I think, with America is just like, yes, we

As American citizens, you have the freedom of speech. You have the right to assemble, the right to protest. But really, for 99.9% of people, what does that even mean? Like, that's not, who gives a crap? You know, like, at the end of the day, what do you want? You want a job. You want better money. You want, you know, a brighter future for your children. That's the big thing. And so that's kind of the thing that I say with China is it's like,

Yeah, you might not have the same level of freedom of speech, but

It's okay. People don't give a crap about that. Well, look, the, the America makes a big deal about, you know, everyone's ability to vote, right? Every person has a vote democracy. But meanwhile, the truth is the ironic truth is every year you have a huge population of Americans that choose not to vote, that choose not to exercise that, that, that right. So it's, so it's like, okay, so how much are they really valuing that and how much of it is just like,

Well, and I think the other thing that I really bring up, a major point that I really bring up in my channel is really the need for the United States government and its people and its politicians to really just look inwardly. I mean, I think we have so many issues inside the country of China that I just said, look, let's look in the mirror. You

Honestly, let China be China. Let them do what they are going to do for their citizens. Because again, it's amazing. We've heard of this Harvard study, the Harvard study that says that 95% of Chinese support the communist government.

And, you know, people have argued me on that. And they said that that is inaccurate. And I said, how could, okay, this is not a Chinese study. This is Harvard University. And they said, well, Harvard University has a bunch of Chinese money, right? They have Chinese students that are coming in. So they've been bought. And I'm like, okay, fine.

I don't agree with that, of course. But the reality is, I mean, again, go on the grounds in China and talk to the people there. And I made this point in my last video. I said, it doesn't really matter what generation you're talking about in China. For example, if you're a grandmother right now or a grandfather in China, you would have seen China at some of its darkest days. You'd have lived through the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward. You would have been at some point in your life extremely poor.

And probably right now, you're in a much better financial position and you've seen your country completely turn itself around. And if you're a mother or father in China right now, you know, you have probably, you know, maybe you were born into, you know, you know, very poor situation. And then you've also been a direct benefit of that economic growth as well.

And then more importantly, if you're a college student or younger, a child, the only thing you've really known is a prosperous and growing China. You have not been able to see that extreme poverty for a lot. Now, of course, poverty does still exist in China. The government has come out and said that they have eradicated absolute poverty. And there's some speculation as to what is the standard poverty level? How much is that per year? But I think when you do look at

that, for example, homelessness in America. I mean, I mean, gosh, I mean, you go to places like Seattle or San Francisco. I mean, the amount of homelessness there is way more and way more extensive than anything that I've ever seen in China, you know, at any point. And I've traveled to 60 cities around China. I mean, I've traveled a lot in China and, you know, gone, you know, gone away from Shanghai and Beijing and the big cities. I mean, I've been all over the country of China and, you know,

you know, and this is something that these are the priorities, you know, this is what China is working on, right? They want to, they realize, for example, farmers are very important because China's going to need a lot of food growing, going forward, right? They're going to need a lot of food. You know, I mean, they really, and they realize obviously the way to eradicate poverty is education. And so they're really, you know, wanting to produce more, you know, better schools and investing in infrastructure. And, you know, how are we going to provide these pathways for, you know, future success for everybody, you know?

Essentially, China wants to create a system where everybody's going to be lifted up. And that's and that's that's quite admirable, because in America, we certainly have freedom, certainly the most capitalistic country in the world. But as a result of that, we have a system where the rich are going to get richer and the poor is going to get poor. You know, and that that is America's system. Yeah. Yeah.

The, I mean, you touched on a main point that I think, and you had, you did a talk at, I think, Thompson Rivers University. It's on your channel as well. It was a great talk. And I think, I'm not sure if it was your own quote or you were quoting somebody else, but you put up a slide and you said that, okay, in America, you can change the party, but you can't change the policy, right? Yeah.

In China, you can't change the party, but you can change the policy, right? That's right. It's reversed. And it really shows. I think there's two... I mean, in my opinion, if I'm speaking to anybody right now, not that my opinion is better than anybody else's opinion. And I'm not really here to try to convince anybody, but...

You know, I think if I were to leave anyone that is willing to listen, is that really kind of two main points, I think kind of really underscore a lot of what's going on is that number one, to your point, is that people are unaware or underestimate China's ability to adapt and adapt really fast.

and change policies. So policies are constantly changing and constantly being improved upon and optimized literally like on a daily basis. It's crazy. You know, um,

I always like to draw random and funny analogies. And an analogy I draw between China's ability and speed and flexibility of changing policies and constantly improving upon them is Tesla, Tesla cars, right? So when I was in California a few years ago, and my friend, I was staying with my friend for a couple of weeks, and he had just bought a Tesla. And I had never been in a Tesla before.

But obviously I heard all about it. So I'm like, awesome. Let's ride in your Tesla. I mean, I want to get to know what the, what the, all the buzz is all about. So he's showing me around and then we're driving around. I'm like, this is a great car. This is awesome. The next day we get into his car and before, and as he's turning it on, we're kind of idle there. And then he's like messing around with his like little dashboard on, on the Tesla. And he turns to me, he's like, oh, cool. I have seat warmers now.

And I turned to him, I'm like, what do you mean you have seat warmers now? You didn't have seat warmers yesterday. What do you mean you have them now? Like, what do you mean? He's like, oh yeah, I just, I just downloaded an update, a Tesla update and unlocked a, a function on the car that gives me seat warmers. I'm like, I'm like, that is, that is fricking awesome. And then a few, a few other days go by and he downloads another update and there's all these other functions start being unlocked in his car and

And I'm just like, this is amazing. And that's kind of how I see China in its ability to optimize and correct and improve upon previous policies is that it's constantly, it's really good at spotting things that aren't working.

spotting things that were kind of done incorrectly and rectifying those mistakes and issuing new policies. There's no bickering. There's no bureaucracy. There's no, this is a left issue or right issue. It's like, okay, this is not really good and we should make it better. And boom, the next day done, there's a new policy in place and it just happens at a snap of a finger. And it's constantly doing this literally on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, uh,

I mean, there's policies that affect my life for the better that are being made almost every month here. So I see it as kind of like Tesla's ability to update its cars. It's like it's always optimizing. That's a good analogy. I like that. Well, I think, you know, just... Sorry, I'll just add one point that I think is important is...

You know, you look at China with their five-year plans. This is one of the coolest things that I have a lot of respect for with the government is that, you know, I think they're, I believe this is the 14th consecutive five-year plan that the Communist Party has come out with. And for me, again, we go back to that analogy, thinking of it as a business.

I like to always think of like, look at the country of China, like Apple. I mean, Apple is one of the most, I mean, it's the most successful company maybe of all time. It's an incredible company, but you just look at this organization, you know, and China's sitting down right now. I mean, this was the two sessions, you know, what are we going to achieve over the next five years? What's our next five year goal? You know, this is the goal that we want to do, and this is how we're going to get it done.

And it's just very simple. And everybody knows, and this is basically what's happened since the founding of the party, is let's do a five-year plan. And now we've done 14 consecutive five-year plans. And again, there really is a lot of stability to that. Because again, I think that's one of the

The tough things when you look at America and the democratic system in the sense of Donald Trump's in there. All right. We're going to build a wall. We're building these different parts of the wall. And then Joe Biden comes in. OK, we're not building a wall anymore. Let's stop that. OK, we're going to stop that. So you constantly like in one way. I mean, you know, the system was designed to have a checks and balance so that if someone's in power and you don't like him, that he's not going to be in power indefinitely. So we're going to replace him.

But it is very difficult when you look at America and their ability to respond. And this is why we see certain bills and amendments literally take years and sometimes decades to push through because of constant changing, changing, changing parties, changing parties. You know, OK, this gets revoted amendment this.

It's very difficult to make anything. Nothing's efficient in the United States government. Nothing, nothing is efficient at all. And, you know, I mean, the best example that I ever could possibly think of is was obviously COVID-19 city of Wuhan, two hospitals in the span of 10 days,

Interesting enough, very similar time, Donald Trump was actually standing his impeachment trial, which took 20 days, literally took double the amount of time. And we all knew going in, there was no way that he was going to be impeached. It was impossible, right? I think the Republicans had controlled the House or the Senate or one of the two. So obviously, even if he was impeached,

voted guilty, they would have just overturned it the next day. So I'm kind of like, we literally wasted 20 days of time, the impeachment of Donald Trump. We know the result. He's not going to get impeached. He's going to be acquitted. And then, and meanwhile, in half that amount of time, China's like, you know what? Let's build two, let's get, we're jumping on this, not now, but right now. We're building brand new hospital. In addition to that, we're getting medical supplies and medical doctors from every single province in China, all of you relocating to Wuhan now.

And then you can see what happened, you know, and this this is how, you know, it's amazing how that government can move fast and effective. And there's one last point that I'd like to bring up. You know, I had somebody mentioned the other day that it's like, you know, I understand why, you know, why people wear facial masks in China, because they're scared if they go out of their house, you know, the communist government's going to discipline them.

I'm like, no, it really doesn't have anything to do with that at all. Honestly, people in China just are like, the government told us to wear facial masks. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, there's literally like a virus going around, you know, that is transferred from human to human. Makes sense. Like, we'll just wear a mask, stay indoors. People have this, again, it goes back to that perception. People are thinking, you know, they're so scared the communist government's going to come down and just hammer them and, you know, arrest them, put them in jail, you know, send them away just because they're not wearing a mask.

No, I mean, like, again, like you just, you have this compliance and you just have, you have a lot of trust there. I mean, you have a lot of trust in the party because, and again, this is what people are like, wow, you know, I'm glad we don't have to vote for the party because that's a lot of responsibility. And again, look at what the party's doing, the organization, look at the last 30 years, look at how my life has improved. You know, you'd be hard pressed to find Chinese people, you know, that don't feel like they're

feel they haven't seen this economic boom and also seen tangible benefits for themselves and be like, yeah, I think our country's heading in the right direction.

And then on the flip side, look at America. I mean, are we saying that, are we confident? Are we confident in being like, all right, we got Joe Biden. We are headed in the right direction. Like things are looking very optimistic for America right now. We got a lot of issues we got to solve. We got a lot of problems right now. And, you know, it just doesn't look good. And I'm not saying that America's, you know, destined for failure. But, you know, again, I don't have that same level of optimism. You know, I'm definitely more cautious in that regard.

Well, I think there's a lot to be said on what is the perceived, if you just use some unbiased thinking, like what is the perceived trajectory that these two countries are currently on right now? Right. And I think one is clearly kind of going up and you can argue that one is kind of clearly going down, at least for now. Right. And whether it's going to hold that trajectory is a whole different story.

But like you said, there is a lot of political theater. Everything is political theater because when you have a system that is based on popularity and having popularity contests at all levels of government there, it's not just the president. I mean, you elect all your officials. So everything becomes a popularity contest. Then everything becomes political theater. And you have two parties. It's dominated by two parties. I mean, China is dominated by one party.

you know, America, we like to think it's so much freer with a democracy, but it's only dominated by one more party than China and not being two parties, right? I mean, it's really, they decide who you get to vote for. It's not like you can just choose anybody. They prop up the candidates. So, and then when you have these two parties diametrically opposed to each other and constantly trying to shut each other down,

you run in place and there's a lot of running in place going on. And we can get into that and we can get into a four-year administration like you touched upon. And after those four years, if they don't get reelected, then next guy comes in and just clears out everything that was built in those previous four years and you start from zero again, right? And so where are you really going? Like what kind of progress are you really making? And I've always seen it as...

I see it as this, I want to try to be fair here because China's government in terms of what our Western standards are is more authoritarian. I mean, it is a more authoritarian government. That's not to say it's bad or evil, but it's more authoritarian. And what I see with that is that if you compare that to a democracy, I feel like a democracy like America has,

you are, you take less risk in a way and you always kind of stay in the middle of the road. There's not too much opportunity for like huge growth, but there's not too much opportunity for like complete disaster either because you can reelect people. There's a checks and balances, like you said there, and it refreshes every four years or every eight years or whatever, right? So you kind of always stay where you are. Now with an authoritarian government, like what China has, um,

You have much more oscillation, ability to oscillate. And what I mean by that is if you choose, if you have a bad corrupt leader, then you have, you can go, you can get way worse than a democracy. Things can be much more terrible than any democracy for the long term.

But if you choose a good, competent, strong leader, then you have so much more upside and potential than a democracy can offer you, right? So you're taking a little more risk with that, but the upside is so much higher. And I feel like with China's current leadership and everything like that, we have a good leader. And the system is in place where it kind of almost...

You know, it's hard actually to get a really bad leader because of all the process they have to go through and the lifetime of work they have to show for it. But, you know, that's how I see authoritarian governments versus democratic governments. And, you know, and, you know, I think, you know, depending on what your kind of tolerance for risk is and, you know, how you want to deal with it, you can, you can, you know, support either side. But, you know, there's pros and cons to both.

No, 100%. And I think, you know, you look at Lee Kuan Yew, you know, the first prime minister of Singapore, I mean, a fantastic, you know, world leader, you know, very authoritarian, you know, in many ways, you know, and how he ran that country, you know, very much so. And so, but I mean, again, I mean, you know, a tremendous amount of success, you know, for the country of Singapore. And, you know, again, a great, a great country.

Great model. I mean, I think Singapore is a fantastic country to, you know, it's a fascinating case study. You know, we're talking about these different government, you know, systems.

Well, look, Cyrus, I don't want to take up too much of your time, but there's one, you know, I'm getting a little preachy, I guess, but I'm in that spirit anyway. But there's one last point that I want to make. And this is something that you touch upon in your videos as well, is that, you know, I think one of the biggest mistakes in terms of normal people's, you know, take media out of it for a second, because we know what's going on there. We know the spin. But I think, you know,

Even without the media, there's a tendency for a lot of, I think, Western people to... And they don't know the difference between China before and China now. And they just think of it as all the same thing, right? So...

And these are completely two different worlds. These are completely two different systems, two different countries, really, when you're comparing China decades ago and China what it is today, right? Correct. And I see it as kind of the growing pains that all nations go through. I don't think you can name a single prosperous nation in the world that did not go through its own pain.

growing pains. So the equivalent would be like if I were to, if let's say I'm a Chinese person and I've never been to America and my whole outlook on America was pre-Civil War America and

And that's how I thought about America today. I'm like, okay, well, that's how it is. Or if I thought of Germany as like Nazi Germany still, and my whole outlook on Germany was like, oh, it's basically the same as what Nazi Germany was. I'd be ridiculous to think that, right? I'd be so wrong. And I think that's how a lot of people still view China. They don't understand that China has changed dramatically.

so much that it's completely not the same system. So a lot of, when Westerners think of China, they think of, you know, the old school China and, you know, they think of all these, you know, all these turbulent times in China's past and that's, that's their image of it. So it's that ability to differentiate and to be aware and educated and research enough to know that there's a huge difference between these two. Yeah.

Big time. That's going to be a future video on my channel, just simply titled, Has China Changed? And talking about from Mao Zedong to Xi Jinping and this timeframe.

I mean, China has changed tremendously. And I think, you know, obviously the government has not changed. You know, it has been a one party state the entire time. That is that has remained unchanged. And I think, you know, you can you can make the argument, you know, yes. You know, has Chinese citizens experienced political freedom? You know, have they experienced some political changes? No, they haven't. It's been it's been a one party state. But when you look at the personal freedoms of Chinese have exploded dramatically.

you know, in the past 30 years. And it's a much different China and a much different experience. That's how I would answer that question. And again, like I've had people message me. It's like, well, Cyrus, what about the Great Leap Forward? What about the Cultural Revolution? How could you talk about China when it has this history? And to me, it's just,

such a simple answer to that question. And you already hit it on the head. You know, if you're judging America based on the time that, you know, we had slaves or Germany as you know, when it was Nazi Germany and, you know, you know, during the Holocaust.

you know that obviously these were very dark times in these prospective countries and no less than china i mean those were terrible times in china that was not a good these were not good times in china um and that was you know bad government policies bad decisions you know there were certainly mistakes made um you know even china admits that you know i mean pianos you know chinese you know many chinese people when you ask them you know what do you think of um

you know, Mao Zedong, you know, a lot of people say he's, you know, 50% right, 50% wrong. You know, there were some very positive things that he did. There were some big mistakes that he made as well. But again, I really agree with your point. And I like the growing pains, you know, I think every country in the world, you know, goes through those, goes through those periods, but

you know, you look at just, I mean, since 1979, China has not been in an international conflict. America, I mean, we can constantly spending money on wars. I mean, China, you know, you keep reinvesting into the infrastructure. You look at the high speed rails in China, you look at

You know, it's amazing, you know, when we talk about, you know, again, kind of going back to one of the first points that you made, you know, what's the most important things, these very basic elements, food, shelter, jobs, prosperity, opportunity. And these are the things that China is offering its citizens. Hey, you're not going to have the same level of freedom of speech in China. It will be different, you know. But again, not many people are exactly seeking what you're doing in America. And that's not to say that, you know,

you know, like I love having freedom of speech here and, you know, um, you know, I mean, it's great, but again, I think, I think for most people, you know, for the majority of people living in China, foreigners included, you know, their, their quality of life is not really that much different, um, you know, than living back in their respective countries. Yeah. I mean, I would argue that, I mean, at least in my experience, um,

with a lot of expats, their quality of life is actually slightly better here. Correct. In many cases. Certainly for expats. Yeah, definitely. Certainly for, I mean, I mean,

Maybe a funny story we can end on here. I remember going back to America. I was going back every year. There's a golf show in my hometown of Orlando, Florida. It's the largest golf show in the world. And I was a member of the PGA. And I went back to take this advanced certification course. And I never forget, if I was able to pass that certification course, I would be the first US PGA professional in the country of China to have that

um accolade and i remember you know taking the test and i remember you know the meeting with the education director and he just you know he took me kind of to the side afterwards and he's like well cyrus i gotta just say i'm really i'm really grateful for what you're doing and i'm like oh what do you mean and he's just like i mean for you to sacrifice your quality of life to go to china

Just to go and be in the golf industry. I mean, you're literally trying to grow the game of golf and you're going to, I mean, you're living in the third world country. And I'm like,

buddy, I live in Shanghai. I've never been there. That place is amazing. And again, I think we need to be careful because I don't want to say like, okay, Shanghai, I mean, it is one of the best cities in the world and it's one of the best cities in China. And that's not all of China is like that. But again, I mean, I've traveled to many cities in China and again, it was just interesting his perspective about that. He essentially thought, I'm suffering or I'm really

really sacrificing my life. You know, he pitied me, you know, I'm really sacrificing my quality of life just because I was interested in growing the game of golf. Yeah. I definitely was interested in growing the game of golf, but I also had a good quality of life as well.

Well, the proof is in the pudding because, you know, expats like yourself and pretty much all the expats I know, including myself and my friends, you know, they come here and they didn't have a plan to stay. But 10 years later, they're still here. So there's something to be said for that. Cyrus, yeah.

I appreciate you so much. I mean, I love what you're doing. I think you should definitely keep it up. And, you know, your videos, I would encourage anyone to check them out. They're really thoughtfully broken down and well put and very articulate. You know, thank you so much for being on the show, man. It was honestly a real pleasure.

I appreciate it, Justin. Thank you so much for having me on. You know, I mean, it was just so great to connect with you and, you know, to hear, you know, a fellow American just speaking, you know, very passionately about both of both of our countries. And I think I think, you know, all of us involved in this journey, I think, you know, we're all connected.

We're all wanting to just really seek engagement and really making sure that more people can truly understand. And I think that is something that I hope, you know, some of these listeners, for example, if you're, you know, if you're listening to this podcast, you've made it to this far in the show, you know, that's really the goal is just really understanding and just really realize, you know,

for the majority, again, going back to those, there is going to be some bias in Western media. You know, if you, if you have the opportunity to go out and travel, go out and experience it for yourself, you know, never judge a book by its cover. You know, we're, we're taught that as a young child, but unfortunately as adults, sometimes we forget that concept. And I really think that's, that's really, really important. So I, I appreciate you for giving me a chance to come on the show. It's been a lot of fun chatting about this and it definitely will continue, you know, working hard on the channel and,

and just keep helping more people understand China.

Yeah, man. I mean, yeah, just anyone who's out there, just exercise, try to exercise some critical thinking, get some more sources of information going like Cyrus's channel. Yeah, it's, I mean, a lot of kind of my feelings are just kind of more out of frustration than passion, I feel. But I think that's just kind of like the point I'm at now. Hey, Cyrus, we kind of just, we really just broke the surface on, I think, a lot of topics and there's so many more cans of worms we can open up next time.

Sure. But yeah, man, I know it's getting late over there, but yeah, thank you again for taking the time. My pleasure. My pleasure, Justin. Thank you so much. And well, again, appreciate being on the podcast. My honor. I'll see you down the road, man. Thanks, brother. All right. Sounds good. You got it, brother. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.