Ep 132: Finding Your Authentic Branding Style with Katie Allen
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podcast extends well beyond plugging in the mic. So if you're ready to learn how it can help you build a big business, then I'm your best friend. Hi, I'm Joanne Bull and I am obsessed with all things podcasting and creating an unapologetically big revenue business with it. From podcast guesting to podcast hosting and everything in between, we're going to dive into it all and show you step by

by Awesome Step, how using a podcast can and will grow your business. To grab a glass of wine and pop your headphones on, because girlfriend happy hour has begun here on The B Word. Hey, B Worders, welcome back. If you are that girl who is currently standing in your closet thinking, I have no idea what the hell I should wear almost every day of your life, then this episode is for you. Tune in.

I brought on my guest today, Katie, who is probably watching me on this video right now and thinking, I definitely need to go help Joanne's closet. And Katie, you do, because I live most days in t-shirts and sweatshirts and workout outfits because I feel like that girl who does not know how to put an outfit together unless it's already done for her. But more importantly, Katie's here to talk to us today about being in the fashion world

the obstacles you really have to mentally overcome when you're in that one. Because, hey, let's be honest here. Women and the men can get a little judgy and a little catty when they think you're just a Barbie fashionista. And we're going to wind the episode up talking about how to get ready for your next brand focus.

photo shoot, which is super critical to your business. Y'all have heard me talk about that before. So let me quit rambling and introduce you to Katie. Katie, dive in and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into the world you're in. Yeah, thank you so much, Jordan. I'm super excited to be here. But I have to say you're doing the one thing that I love because I

love t-shirts and sweatpants, but you have on this super cute pink earring. So like brings it all together. And I do a little something. I forgot the lipstick today, but that's okay. My microphone doesn't need it. Mine does. Mine would be like, what are we doing, Katie? So my name is Katie. I'm a podcaster and a personal stylist. And I really found my way back to fashion through podcasting. And I think podcasting is

the best thing ever. But to make a really long 42 year old story short, I went to college for fashion and I joke that it was before the internet back in 1999, which technically kind of was definitely before social media. So I bought into like what everyone was saying around like, oh, if you go to school for fashion, what are you going to do with your life? What are you going to be with your life? And I kind of developed this like chip on our shoulder in fashion school and

is that like the fashion kids were treated different from the other kids. And I specifically have this memory of being in school and one of our marketing classes and the fashion kids answering the questions and the teacher being like, you guys are just going to let the fashion kids answer all the questions. Wake up. In that moment, I was like, what does that mean? Like, I've been an A student my whole life. And then I was in marketing for 20 plus years. Then I came back to myself through podcasting. I was like, oh my God, it's really style. It's always been about fashion. And

And using it as self-expression. And so when I launched my podcast in 2019, I had no idea what I was launching the podcast about, but I knew that my vision, mission, purpose would like unfold itself somehow. And one day it just came crashing back in. Of course, pandemic, I lost my job, all that.

So I know that sounds really simple and it wasn't. It was very messy. But here I am now, three years into it, four years of the podcasting journey. And it's really about helping female entrepreneurs get crystal clear on who they are and what their values are so that we can bring it to life in their clothes so that they can feel good in their bodies and that they can dress for themselves first before they dress for their clients, before they dress for their brands. You know, I love this so much. And

Here is one of the main reasons why. I am a firm believer that your outfits are a piece of your brand. I mean, like how you show up is your brand. And in fact, I've watched a lot of people over the years, you know, they always show up looking one way on social media or their YouTube, and then you see them on stage and they look completely different. And back when I was in the real estate world, I would also advise my agents of the same thing. If you're going to show up

to a client in sweatpants, you need to show up on Instagram and sweatpants because when you show up in real life and you don't match how you show up online, it actually mentally like throws people off with you and they lose a little bit of that know, like, and trust. And we always want them to trust.

Right. And so whether you're someone who always dresses up for their stuff or goes barefoot like I do, if heck, if I speak on stage for a keynote, most of the time I am barefoot or in slippers. Why? Because that's who I am. And you know that when you hire me to speak.

And you have really embraced that piece of branding in such a beautiful way that I'm kind of jealous, actually. It's because of that whole journey. It's because of that story and that ship. And it was like, it's not about being dressed up. It's about being you, like exactly what you said. It's about you.

wearing that. Oh, I have chills right now. And I think about this a lot because I'm super authentic. I'm super vulnerable. Like if you go back and listen to my podcast, oh my God, I won't listen to it because I like the stuff I'm said and the stuff I shared.

And in the social media world, everyone's like, don't show up and you don't have to wear makeup and you don't have to do that. And I get in my head sometimes and I'm like, I don't have to wear makeup, but I like wearing makeup. And there's just, that's who I am. That's my brand. And so I get in my head sometimes and I'm like, should I not always show up with my lipstick on, with this on? I'm like, no, Katie, that's what makes you you. And I

I live for that. So like you said, if your brand is slippers and it's bare feet, yes, let's do that. And then how can we do that and make you feel really good about doing that and own that? And like some of my favorite influencers and favorite authors, they just really embody that. Like I use Denise Duffield Thomas all the time. Like she has it dialed and her brand, what she wears is so freaking intentional. And everybody probably thinks it's not. But I'm watching her and I'm like, she knows what she's doing. Yeah.

And it's fantastic because someone like you who's dialed into that piece of branding will pick up on that. Whereas someone else who that's not their dialed in piece of branding will pick up on other things. But the outfits will subliminally help pull it all together. It's like the wrapping paper on the perfect gift you're giving someone. Yes, that's it. Don't hand someone a birthday gift wrapped in Christmas wrapping paper. Okay, maybe you do. I've done it before. I will admit, please don't.

Super big faux pas, even if their birthday is on Christmas Day. Separate that shit. You don't do that. Like if your brand is one thing, you just you've got to dress. I mean, I hate to say that old cliche, the part. But you have to really dress who you are, especially I'm thinking today as we really evolved from we watch commercials and influencers and we're buying the look.

Now we're buying into the person. And when you dress the part of who you actually are, you might lose some business, but you're going to pick up more of who actually needs to work with you or listen to you or buy your products or material or whatever it is.

Absolutely. And I think about this a lot. So coming into that journey, losing my 20 year career and the pandemic and then coming back to myself, the first thing I did is like, well, I haven't been in fashion school in 20 years. Like I haven't really explored these things. I never really left them. But if I'm going to start a business like I want to brush up or go into craft a bit.

And I dove right in and I was in so many different styling courses and trainers and things like this with all these other stylists who are some of my favorite people to talk to and converse with. And it's so fascinating. Like,

And when people say like stay in your lane and collaboration over competition, I think that's what I learned in those groups is like when we all were just so clear on what our style was because it's what we were helping people do. It was so easy to admire another stylist's outfit and her work and the things she does and be so secure.

And what I'm doing and what she's doing because that's how she dresses. And I'm like, that's awesome. I love your outfit. I'll never wear it, but I love it. And it's such a great mindset tool to bring into business. And I use it in my business constantly. So if I'm saying that to her and I'm like, oh my God, I love that shirt. Where'd you get it? Like, I'm curious. I want to know. I will never buy it.

So when you ask someone or you think about your business, you're like, oh, my God, Joanne, how do you run your podcast like that? That's really fascinating to me. And like you're learning things from other people, but you don't have to feel nervous like, oh, she's a podcast or I'm a podcast or I should be doing everything that Joanne is doing. No, that's her style. And I think it's easy with clothes because it's different. Like they can be really fun because like clothes, I think for a lot of us.

We're really fun when we were younger. Like when I think of getting dressed up, I think of like pre-gaming before the club. Right. And you all get together and you're hanging out and you're like, girl, is this shirt cute? Oh, you look so cute. Oh, you should borrow this tank top. This looks better on you than it looks on me. And it's this like that was the collaboration over competition. And that's where we found our people. And that's where we felt the most safe. And I think we can bring some of that back into our businesses and we can use our clothes to think like, where am I?

else am I stopping myself and my business? If this is bothering me and it's just my clothes, then where else might that be showing up for me? Oh, I love that. You know, I recently did a post on Instagram that literally said, if you look, the people who are competing are at the bottom, the people who are collaborating are at the top of the industry. And it's because those people at the top that are collaborating, like they have found that confidence and they have stepped into who they are and they don't give a shit what anybody else is doing.

Like, I would love for you to tell me how to improve my outfit or my podcast because I look at you as equal. I don't look at you as you could be stealing my podcast listeners or you could be stealing my look or my feel. And that's when the magic, I think, really gets sprinkled into networking and business growth and all of the things that really get you from that midpoint of maybe being successful and to that solid point of, yeah, like,

We're doing it. We're making the revenue that we want to make. Yeah. And I think that comes from clarity, right? Like being super clear on like what makes Joanne Joanne, what makes Katie Katie. And that's what style is like. And a lot of people, they come to me and they're like,

just want dope clothes. Like, just tell me what to wear. And I'm like, but you don't though, because the second I tell you what to wear, if I don't know you, then I'm just going to pick out things that are meaningful for me that have worked for me that I like. And if I don't know you, that's just not going to work every single time. Like that's everyone thinks they're coming for. And I'm like, this is actually, and I know it's kind of annoying. This is actually just about you. And we're really holding space for you to slow down and get really clear on what you like.

I can absolutely tell you what's trending. I can absolutely tell you what looks good on your body type. But what looks good on your body type might not be anything you like because clothes hold so many emotions. Like I can be like, Joanne, you should wear a high neck turtleneck. And you'd be like, nope, that actually reminds me of this person. And that person did this and I don't like this and I don't want to be associated with that. So I can never wear that. So now we're back. I never thought of that before.

All the time. I get people all the time. And I think it's so much fascinating work because you have like the sister wound, right? The sisterhood wound or you have the mother wound. Like for women, it's usually other women. And almost every single client I have either has a sister. Like my sister was the fashion one. My sister was the pretty one. Whatever those words are that we like to layer into that.

Or my mom was into fashion and I wasn't good enough or whatever it is. Like there's always this story there around that. And I was like, ooh, this is so much deeper than we think it is.

And that's where that's where the work is. It's like, yes, I know the science behind styling. Like I can tell you your body shape. I can do proportions for you. I can tell you colors, but only you on the emotion and the art of it. And like together, that's how we really create that personal style. OK, so for instance, I do not wear button downs and I don't wear button downs because by God's grace and my grandmother's side of the family, I am a double D person.

At almost all times, sometimes of the month, I'm even bigger than that. Like I've had these puppies reduced twice and they just come back. And the reason I don't wear button downs is often the little button in the middle like will pop open, give a little peeky boo, which most women don't care about. But I've actually had men like that can do nothing but stare that down. And I'm like so self-conscious of it because, A, I don't want the guys staring at it. And B, it actually makes me feel chunky.

Yeah. And, you know, the boobs are so big that the shirt can't even like close correctly. So I guess that is what you're talking about with the emotional thing, right? Like you could tell me button downs look fantastic. I'd be like, no, girl, I ain't doing it.

I don't care. And if you're like, okay, so I'm giving a TED talk and I want to be professional and I want to like exude authority, like button downs typically do that. But we, as a society, if I say button down shirt, you think of business, you think of a meeting, you think of, you know, very classic attire, which is all of those things. Literally the term like buttoned up, right? Like, oh, let me get myself buttoned up. Like, let me get my shirt together. Sorry. I don't know if we can cut on the podcast.

Right. So there's all these like psychological things that go into it. And you're like, nope, I have this. And fair enough. And a lot of women that have big chests feel like that. So there is fashion tape. So if you ever want to explore it, we can talk about fashion tape. We'll have to get together for that. So you can actually show me how to use it because I I'm 44. I did not grow up in the world of TikTok and YouTube showing me how to do stuff. And my mom certainly did not. Like she is the most plain Jane person.

fashion person you've ever met in your entire life. So I look at all this, you know, boob tape and stuff. And I'm always like, yeah, I don't even know. And I'm, I have no idea what to do with that. Cause, and I'll admit it. I have no idea. Oh, it's a lot. Well, I use like just tape that we can tape on the clothes. Cause taping your boobs. That sounds like a lot of work. Yeah. And like, I hear you. I'm in my forties. I'm not taping my boobs, but like if I didn't want to wear a shirt and I want to tape the shirt shirt, that's a little different. Yeah.

But like if you were going to speak somewhere and you're like, OK, I'm giving a TEDx talk and I want to be professional and I want to look like the leader of the podcast space.

Okay, well, button up shirts are out. So how else are we going to make sure that like you're saying, like the subliminal messaging, you're obviously going to be able to speak to these things. It's what you do. But what else can you wear to make you do that? So then maybe instead of like the button up, we'll go for a different silhouette and then maybe it'll be a color, right? Like you have on black and you have light hair. So black, red.

can play as a power color for you because it's very contrasting between your natural features and the outfit. So that's one way we can do it. So it's really, you know, there's just lots of fun ways to get around that. But there is so many psychological aspects to it. And I love that part of business. I mean, it's a love-hate, don't get me wrong.

I think we all have pieces of business we love. Hey, I just love this conversation because I feel very strongly that the overall look is a piece of your brand. And most people, honestly, I've not heard many podcast interviews where they dive into that.

You know, like they want to dive into how to do your branding on Instagram or TikTok or LinkedIn and write the perfect emails and the Pinterest pins. And I've done all that. I've never and I've done an episode where I told you how to prepare for your brand photo shoot, which we're about to get into, but never from the output perspective, more from the how to select the right location and get your photographer and how to like have the right vibe and energy that day, but never from the

oh my God, how do you pick out what you're going to wear for that photo shoot? And so I think this is really, really critical for the audience because A, it heightens their awareness that marketing and branding is all of it. And B, it probably is going to answer some questions that they were too afraid to ask themselves.

It should match it though. So like you should think of like what your environment is and what's your vibe and energy. And then first question I ask everybody when we work together is how do you want to feel? Like, how do you want to feel? So vibe check, right? So your photographer is going to ask you the same question. And then if you're not sure how you want to feel, then what does your brand stand for? Like, what are the words that you would use to describe your brands, right? So like what I remember is,

Getting a brand photo shoot was one of the first things I did. Like I'm barely making money. And I'm like, let's go get a photo shoot. Right. Because that's just was a comfort zone for me from being in marketing for so many years. And I remember on the phone, I was like doing my branding at the same time. And I'm like, this is great. Like I'm a week ahead of you barely. And I just like, how do you want to feel? I was like, I have no idea how I'm going to feel.

I was like, but you know, my brand's playful, you know, it's bold and it's supposed to be really easy. Like that's really the goal for me is to make fashion fun and easy again by just bringing it back to ourselves and using it for a tool there. But it should just reflect that. It should just be that. I think of it like I like to use different metaphors of think of it as decorating your home because that's one way to get it off of your body and like how we wouldn't, you know, the way that you decorate your home. And then you could also think of it as like understating

ambiance, right? So like if you're going to a restaurant and it's supposed to be a nice Italian dinner and it's a date and then don't you hate it when the lights are really bright? Like it's so annoying. It's just going to ruin the whole mood. The wine could be amazing. The music could be amazing. The person could be amazing. And then the lights are bright. You're like, this doesn't match. Like it should all flow together. Okay. So yes, there is. And again, we're going to loop back to the branding piece, but you just call my interest.

We were out in Vegas back in May, my husband and I, and we went to a super nice steak restaurant. Like, it's a franchise. It's a thing. We've been to them before. You're going to drop $500 to have a nice bottle of wine and steaks and, you know, all the things. And we were okay because of the brand. Well, I don't know where they've shifted along the way.

They were still like the inside of the restaurant looked about like I expected. The ambiance was what I expected. The food was what I expected. What I was not prepped for was 11 o'clock when a DJ set his booth up and they started playing like rave music. I was both of us looked at each other. We're like either we've just gotten that old or whatever.

What they're now doing doesn't match the experience we thought we were getting. And at first we were like, okay, it's because we're in Vegas. Like, they're pulling the Vegas stops out. We're in the Cosmo. Like, okay, fine. And so, you know, we finished up our meal, whatever, and left. Although the music was pretty pumping. I kind of liked it. Well...

I'll be damned if not a month later, my husband flew to Chicago on work, went to that same franchise restaurant. And guess what? It happened again. So this is obviously part of their new branding. But to go to your point about like too light of music, it killed the ambiance for what you were really there for. And I think sometimes our outfits can do the same thing.

Yeah. And I think sometimes our offense will stop us from like, you can have all the strategy in the world and you can have all the best email copy and you can have all this. But like you said, people are buying from people.

And if you're not showing your face and you don't want to do a story or you don't want to do a live, like, I mean, I could be wrong, but some of it is like, I just don't even know what to wear. Like, what do I wear? How do I get on camera? Get on camera is scary. It's scary. And I do it all the time and it's still scary. And if I, oh, I have nothing to wear today, then guess what? It's not going to happen. Not going to get on camera. I'll do all the behind the scenes thing. But that might be the thing that you need to move the needle in your business.

Yeah, I'm so jealous, actually, of my kids' generation. And my daughter and I, she's 13. And we were having this conversation a couple of months ago, because for me, it took a long time before I would even move to video podcasting, because I felt like I needed all the right lights, which half the time they don't work. And so it's wrong, or I don't have the right lipstick on, or I fade into the background. And it was self-consciousness. And I know a lot of podcasters

What holds them back is they don't want to hear their own voice on the podcast. Like we have to get used to it. Well, my kids generation grew up on TikTok. They grew up on Instagram. They grew up making FaceTime instead of just calling someone. And so for them, that whole get on video and hear your own voice, it is not actually a thing.

It doesn't exist. And my son's 14. I'm like, I pulled from him so much. I got to listen to him talk and things. And I'm like, oh, that's so fascinating. We're in this really cool spot. Like when I joke about like going to college before the Internet and it's like you watch the whole evolution of all of that. So it's really kind of cool. And that's like last night I was on threads. I felt cool because I knew some of the lingo because of my 14 year old. Yeah.

I'm so off topic on this one, you guys. I apologize. But I learned a new word the other day or a new term. And again, I'm 44. So I'm not as cool as I could be. But apparently now a hookup is called smashing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I realized that one and was watching a TV show. And this guy was going on a smash tour. And I'm like, I thought, I'm like, what the hell is a smash tour? And he's 15. And he was horrified. He's like, do I?

Do I explain this to you? Because you're going to want to know why I know what this means. And I'm like, yeah, you have full permission to not get in trouble right now. What is a smash toward? He's like, mom, it's when someone's just having sex with a bunch of people. I'm like, oh, OK. I love it. We Jesus. All right. There we go. So.

Let's land the plane a little and give everyone here what I promised to give them, which was Katie, tell us what how do we prep for a brand photo shoot? What are some of the things beyond just some of the things we've already talked about? Like, what is the advice that you give people?

Yes. So definitely do your vibe check. Number one. Right. So like, how do you want to feel? What are you communicating? And then how I go into it is like usually in a photo shoot, I would say three outfits make sense is like, what are the three sides of yourself that you're really trying to showcase?

And lean into those. The prepping for this, there's a couple different like tactics that we can use with the three things I really keep in mind is you're going into this, you know, you have the three looks, right? These are like the three sides of you, the three big sides. So like, you know, you're meeting a client for coffee, you're

maybe the first sales call look that you would have and then the ongoing relationship it can be very different but you might just show up a little bit different and then like the TEDx talk or whatever the big stage presentation those are usually the three like the super casual the everyday work and then like your queen energy or whatever that looks like one piece of advice is I always try to like

I have an anchor piece in my outfits. Like when I did my photo shoot, I had this black shirt, body suit. I was like, what is it? It was a body suit. And I carried that through all three of those looks, right? So there's a version of me with that in jeans, right? That's the everyday casual look. Then there's a version of me in that in a skirt. That's me showing up for a client, like I'm a stylist. You want to have the experience of a stylist showing up for you, right? Like want some of that aspirational energy.

to create the mood that we're going to get creative here. And then the third one would still with that black shirt is a now like the power suit. And of course it was pink because it had to be playful, even though it was the power move of it. And I use that as my anchor piece for all three outfits. So your anchor piece, your hero piece, like whatever you want that to be. And,

Simple is always better. Like it's hard because you want to, and as a stylist, right? Like you want to go big, you want to go home. But with the photo shoot, I would say simple is always better. And we got to just get really creative and like color blocking and things like that on what we really want to do to showcase your personality. And there's just like a lot of fun, subtle ways to do it. But this is where your brand colors are king or queen, right? Like we're really going to want to lean into that because again, there's a lot of psychology.

in colors and what they mean. And you probably picked them for a reason for your brand. So how can we integrate them subtly and not so subtly into the shoot? But as far as like the other thing, I think if we want like the strategy behind this, like how do I even get there? What do I know what my anchor piece is?

I call it the three B's of photo shoot styling. So what's your body shape? So like you have to have a little bit of know-how and you know, this is the one thing I've realized with working with so many women is you naturally know what you're comfortable in and what looks good on you. You just might not have slowed down enough to admit it or to acknowledge it, but you know what looks good on you. So what's your body shape? What's your budget? And what's your brand? And the brand piece is dual, right? Because what's your brand is,

has to be reflected by the brand that you're shopping, right? So if you're super dramatic and creative and that's your brand, then don't go shop at J.Crew. You're going to waste your time. Yes, they probably have a piece or two, but if you're not comfortable in putting together outfits and that's not your thing that you want to spend time on and you don't want to invest in a stylist yet in your journey, then stick away from that. Match your brand to the clothing brand

And this also comes in with the body shape because certain brands focus

focused and are geared to certain body shapes. Knowing those three things, and of course, your budget's your budget, which can help you eliminate some of the brands. Because you can be like, oh yeah, my style is really creative and flowy. If free people's not in your budget, then maybe you're going to pull it back a little bit and shop somewhere different. Maybe Lulu's or something like that. That might be more in your budget. So getting really clear on that, because we're entrepreneurs, we're super busy, right? So like,

Just like you have a strategy in every other piece of your business, your style is no different.

And, um, we can talk about creating formulas for every day, but really if we're focusing on the photo shoot, like that's what I always try to think about, or like, what are those three B's keeping them in lines? How am I going to show off my brand values? Most of the time color, um, having that anchor piece. Cause it's really easy for you to change. It's really easy for your photographer and it's really seamless, like in your profile. Cause that in and of itself starts to build, um,

The consistency and the know, like, and trust. And I just did a podcast on this recently. If you don't know your body shape, I think necklines are one of the biggest pieces that we can lean into because a lot of photo shoots will be full body. But like, let's be honest, everyone's really just focused on your face. And then you're really just focused on your face. And every time you send your headshot out really is really just chest out the face. Yeah.

Yeah. And then every time you're on Zoom or anywhere is really just chest up. So if you don't nail any other part of like the body shape, just lean into neckline. That's fantastic. All right. I know that that is super helpful. It actually got me thinking in my head, ooh, I've always done an anchor color. You know, one of my brand colors for my photo shoots. Do I need an anchor piece and not color?

I think as long as you have an anchor, I think that's like, let's choose an anchor. And once we have that anchor, we can style and design around it. So either way. So my experience, most people aren't as comfortable with color and they want to start somewhere else. So where are you most comfortable? Like, I agree with you. For me, it's usually probably going to be color. But for me, let's be honest with my lipstick, because I am always actually fantastic, by the way. Thank you. I mean, that color is amazing.

And that's my style tip for keeping my clothes and outfits feeling fresh is instead of constantly buying a bunch of new clothes and feeling like I want to show up in new clothes all the time because you're a stylist, is to switch out my makeup or really just to switch out my lipstick color. It's a lot more affordable. It's a lot more economical. It's quicker. And it can change the whole look of every outfit. Yes. And it changes your mood. It really does, actually. I have a friend.

Yeah, no, I will admit that. Like if I actually have my hair done and lipstick on, I'm like, ooh, I have a whole different attitude today. Who am I? I'm a whole new person. That's right. Okay, so what we always end the podcast with is you are a podcaster. You've referenced it a few times. What's the name of your podcast? But more importantly...

How does your podcast create business for you? Because a lot of our listeners are women entrepreneurs. They have podcasts themselves. And so we like to do the connection between why in the world would you have a podcast for your business? How does it grow it?

Yes, that's such a good question. So my podcast is called Styled for Life. So it's really about how our style is part of our lifestyle and using it to grow and all the things I've talked about. How my podcast, how I use it currently is to generate conversations. And really right now it's more of a lean gen. So I will promote the things that are going on in my business and that. But I just try to keep it constant and fresh with like freebies and

and different ways for people to interact and just constantly inviting that conversation over to Instagram or to my email or to my styling community.

But for me, I think the biggest thing that it's helped me is it's helped create like raving fans or super fans. Like they know you. Like by the time you get on a sales call with someone, they already, I've not had someone book a sales call that was like, I'm not really sure if I want to work with you. Like I'm just going to. No, I think by that point, they're like, how, how, where do I swipe the credit card? Like, can I tap through the phone? Like, how do I do it? Damn it. How come podcast haven't figured that out? And like, yeah. Right.

My God, if I had the technology for that, but okay. Let me know, Joanne. We can do this. Yeah. Like if you can. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. So we will put links obviously to your podcast in our show notes. You guys go and find Katie. She's amazing. I'm probably going to be hitting her up very soon myself because I do a brand photo shoot about one to two times a year because I like to keep things fresh and updated for all the material and the content that we put out. And I'm going to be hitting her up very soon.

you know, one of my biggest issues is always what the hell am I supposed to be wearing for this thing? Oh my God. It's the number one question. It's like, what am I going to wear? And we're always evolving and we're always changing. So we got to like constantly keep that going. So yes, I have the podcast and then I've actually turned the how to nail your next photo shoot into a private podcast mini series. So if you have

one coming up. It's just like five parts and it's like bam, bam, bam. So a lot of things I've talked about and they're just broke down to like little micro episodes. Yeah. So it's super easy. So I can give that to you too to share with you. We'll do all the links and everything for you and we'll get this out. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks Katie for joining us today. I appreciate it.

You just finished another episode of the B word podcast. Cheers to you. If I were with you, I would literally pop a big old bottle of Prosecco and for you a glass. Since I'm not, why don't you do the next best thing and share this episode with one of your besties? Because we all know you've got that one girlfriend that needs to hear it. Thanks friends.

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