Ep 152: Building Your Business Through Effective Storytelling with Krystle Church
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<context>第152集：通过有效的讲故事来建立你的业务，嘉宾Krystle Church

</context> <raw_text>0 Well, hey there, friends. If you're ready to turn your podcast into a pure profit machine, I've got a little something super exciting for you. We are opening registration starting today for the seven-figure podcast bootcamp. Oh my gosh, I am so excited.

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Hi, I'm Joanne Bull and I am obsessed with all things podcasting and creating an unapologetically big revenue business with it. From podcast guesting to podcast hosting and everything in between, we're going to dive into it all and show you step by step how to build a big business.

by Awesome Step, how using a podcast can and will grow your business. So grab a glass of wine and pop your headphones on because girlfriend happy hour has begun here on The B Word. Hey everyone, welcome back to The B Word. I am joined today by my guest Crystal Church.

Absolutely amazing story, which we're going to dive into in a little bit. We were just talking in the green room about how she and her partner actually just up and moved over to this little bitty island near the Maldives. So I'm having a little bit of FOMO. She just misses the fact that she can't get Amazon. And so she's got her own FOMO, but

Ultimately, the reason why we're diving into her story is because she's a copywriter. And we all know as podcasters that the art of copywriting is so important. So Crystal, welcome to the show. I cannot wait for this conversation.

I am so thrilled to be here. Thank you. Awesome. All right. So tell me how... First, let's just go back to the whole, like, I live on the islands thing. How did you and your partner decide to take that jump? Because I think a lot of times as entrepreneurs, it's a big enough leap for us to become entrepreneurs. And you did it and moved out of the country.

you know what? I feel like I always have some type of crazy idea that I'm presenting to my partner. And I usually find it on a blog. That's how I learned about copywriting. That's how I learned about Mauritius, the country island that we live on. I read a blog and I'm like, you know what? That sounds interesting. I wonder what that life is like. And I present it to him. And then he's like, wow, that's really out of left field. Usually says no. And then I harp on him some more and then

He comes around to the idea. But I will say that the choice to move here to a much more remote location, like you said, Amazon does not deliver here. There are no conferences. There is no like in-person networking. No DoorDash. It is a small,

No, ma'am. It is small island life. And we really craved that because we actually didn't move straight here from the States. Even though I'm from Portland, Oregon, we, before I started my business, had each a decade long career teaching in high profile international schools around the world.

So when we moved to Mauritius, we were actually living in Singapore at the time. I had already started my business and got my footing. And so this was just like another new decision that was separated from other large scale ones. So it was an isolated incident that allowed, I think, it to be an easier transition. But it's definitely definitely is still a huge failure.

feet moving countries, the logistics of everything, especially doing that as an entrepreneur. But I think the payoff is definitely worth it. I mean, just having that gut instinct that this is what we want to do and being able to follow through on it. Because I feel like whether it's moving countries or moving industries or taking that bet on yourself, for me, is something that

is what stops 80% of entrepreneurs from actually living that dream life that they want in their business because they think they're betting on themselves, but they're not really ready to take the big leap.

You hit the nail on the head there by saying that this is really about going for something when you don't feel ready for it. And I think that that is the strongest trait of an entrepreneur that goes the distance because the whole journey is just something that you don't know. Because every time you master something, a new host of problems you've never dealt with before comes up. That's kind of how I treat our life as well, just living internationally and moving abroad. It's

Something is always changing. You have to be really flexible. And it kind of just pushes me to be a better version and a more patient version of myself. Okay. So when you guys leave the island country, where are you going next?

We literally sat down and had this conversation yesterday. I have not announced anything yet because it's between two primary countries and we can't decide. It may possibly be Europe. That is taking like kind of over my mind at this moment in time. And I'm picturing some cobblestone streets.

some warm weather because that's so me and yeah, TBD on this, but we're going to be moving next year and start a whole new journey and new chapter of our lives. Well, you can't go wrong in my opinion in Europe. I big fan of London, huge fan of Italy. We've been in France like

With the exception of maybe Germany, not my favorite because I don't drink beer. I drink wine. So you just can't go wrong, girl. We used to live in Munich, actually. And yeah, I just spent the whole time just like taking vodka and putting it in my apple spritz that they would give me. Yeah.

So true. All right. So let's dive into you and your business and what you do now as a copywriter and the importance of storytelling, particularly as a podcaster.

So I'm a copywriter and I own a boutique copywriting agency. We really specialize in sales copy. And I think most of the time the industry looks at storytelling through the lens of content marketing, which is wonderful and absolutely necessary.

But I think that there's a huge missed opportunity to add more story selling into that content marketing and into other areas of your copy and your messaging, like your website, your sales pages, and like you mentioned, even your podcasts.

So storytelling, like really, we know it as an art form, right? It's been passed down from generations and generations, thousands and thousands of years. And when used correctly now, it can really just bring your brand to the forefront of your industry. So as a podcaster myself, and I'm wondering if you can relate to this,

Some of the episodes that I get the most feedback on, that I get the most inquiries from, that I get the most messages or reviews about are the ones where I have opened up personally myself or opened up and shared a story about somebody that I worked with, somebody that I know, even somebody completely outside the business world. But I was talking to, for example, I was talking to our cleaner yesterday and she was telling me that she's sitting on the fence of starting her own business.

And she is good. She is very good. We know she is a way better manager than the manager of the company that she's working for. It's something we've discussed a lot together. And we just sat down and we had a conversation. I said, what is stopping you? You know, what would propel you into this? And that's a conversation that if I took and I shared on my podcast, for example, with my listeners, it is a relatable moment that draws them in. And regardless of industry experience and where she is from,

If I'm speaking to other copywriters or service providers, everybody can relate to the feeling of, should I go all in? Should I do this? And it sparks this emotion within us that allows us to just relate and open up and feel more connected.

Yeah, I totally agree with you because podcasting in general, the reason why I shout it to the rooftops as the best marketing tool you can do for your brand or business is because it allows you that relatability with your potential client. It makes them feel as though they know you in a different way than social media does. And when you bring in those stories and you...

And especially I think when you're right, you hit it on the head. When you go outside of what your general topic and niche is occasionally, like it lets them see the behind the scenes of what's going on in your world and who you're talking to and who you're interacting with. And you just you become like a best friend that they've never met.

Yes, hands down. And I feel like there's just such a shift in the way that you get to sell outside of the podcast because the podcast is so much of a nurturing for you. Yeah, I agree. I agree 100%. All right. So what led you into this journey of copywriting and storytelling? And if you don't mind, I would really like for you to

unpack for our audience, the true difference between copywriting and storytelling, because I think of copywriting as like three sentences on my webpage, but storytelling is a little bit longer. So how do we look at the difference?

Yes. Oh, this is such a good question because storytelling is so much woven into the actual copy and the buyer's journey. So I'll get into that in a moment. But really how I started this career path was, like I mentioned, I had a decade of teaching experience working internationally. And before I started this career path, I was a teacher.

Before that, before I majored in education, I was actually majoring in journalism. I found it to be a little bit dry. I didn't have the type of creativity that I wanted. And I just knew the moment that I stepped foot into a classroom that that was the fulfillment, the impact, the connection with people that I really wanted. And...

Like all things, Crystal, I read about copywriting in a blog when Dale and I had been in a season of thinking about starting our own business, not quite sure what that was going to look like. And I had moved schools. I was teaching at a school in Singapore and I was actually placed in a...

a team that had had a lot of friction and a lot of issues, specifically with sexism in the years prior. And I was actually a higher maid to try to solve the problem and put a female onto the team to try to help fix that. Obviously we know putting somebody that is in the demographic that's being discriminated against to solve the problem isn't really going to address it at its root. So I was constantly standing up

for myself and other women in the department. And I felt like, A, I don't want to do this forever. I don't want to be in the politics. So much about teaching was really just about the policies, the paperwork, and not the actual face-to-face time with your students. And B, I saw a lot of women who didn't have a voice. And so when I read and learned about copywriting,

I just felt in my gut, this is a way that I can bring that writer that's always in me out and help women have a voice. And so that's what I did. I took the big leap, like many of us, just transitioning and starting an online brand. And I really just went full force into working with female powerhouses, mainly service providers in the online space, coaches and course creators who

want to stand out as themselves feel like there is no shame and they can be 100% them and attract that person that they feel so driven to work with. So it becomes this like cyclical nature to it. And that's really what I did kind of starting out solo and then building this boutique agency that we now have. Oh, fantastic.

Yeah. And to answer your second question about really how storytelling and copywriting differ, copywriting is in essence, everything that we see, everything that we have not only written, but also verbally in terms of our content, our brand presence. So yes, the pages on our website, the captions on your Instagram profile, the video scripts that you have in ads, all of it is copywriting.

Storytelling. Storytelling can be an isolated moment in a caption when you're talking to somebody or like we mentioned in a podcast episode. But true story selling, what you should be doing in your copy and your messaging should be woven throughout your entire brand message. So for example, somebody lands on your website and they immediately get drawn in by whatever a hooky caption...

you have at the start of your heading, they're going through the page and you're nurturing them through phases of awareness with story. Story doesn't always mean that you're saying,

oh, this is my journey, how I started. These are the tribulations, the trials that I went through, what happened, the climax and the resolution. That is a great example of a story that you could pull out of your about page, for example. Most of the time, our storytelling is going to be story reflected to our reader about where they are. So connecting with them on the level of

what it's like to sit in their shoes right now. And this goes way deeper than just talking about pains or challenges, but actually sitting there and painting a hyper-specific image of what their life is like

at this very moment in time. So what are they facing on a day-to-day basis? Do you have a busy mom right now who's running her own business? She's got a baby on one hip. She's trying to drink her chai latte in one hand while she's messaging her team on Slack, trying to get them to take some tasks and help them set them up for success for today. Is that the reality she's living right now? Then you want to reflect that back on the page and literally say exactly that.

Like I see you right now, basically, and connecting with them and telling their story to them. And when you can do that, when you can tell somebody their own story,

they're reading it, wondering how you know them so well, feeling like this has got to be their person with the right solution to solve whatever problem you are there to solve for them. So that's where we really blend into what is story selling, when you're able to tell stories in a way that helps sell in a persuasive, soft manner. I love everything about this. And

I think the struggle for so many of us and correct me if I'm wrong is it doesn't come naturally. It is a skill that has to be honed and practiced. You know, it's like going to the gym, you start out with five pound weights and then you can work up to 10 and then all of a sudden you're, you know, whatever, 25, 30 pound weights, but

You have to keep doing the reps and put in the work to make that natural. And I think that's the disconnect between a lot of podcasters, especially is we're great talkers. I mean, let's be honest, podcasters got to talk. That's just what we do. But sometimes that art of storytelling is what prevents us from growing the podcast into something with a bigger audience because we're just not, we haven't honed that piece yet.

Yes. And you know why you bring up a really good point? Because as podcasters, I think it's really hard to sometimes picture the listener who's on the other side with their AirPods and hearing your words right now. Because yes, we all have, you know, an avatar and

the imagined person that we're creating the podcast for in the first place. But a lot of podcasts really attract a range of people and listeners. And so this comes back to really the fundamentals of all of your marketing and knowing your customer, knowing your audience and who's listening and thinking, what do they need to hear today? Do they need a step-by-step how-to of this strategy or do they need me to sit down and relate to them?

you know? And I think having that balance, that's what I try to do a lot is have a balance between, you know, talking about things like this and this strategy and different methods and how to step by step. That's really tangible. Somebody can take ideas and walk away and implement with them. But then also sitting down and having relatable stories that just open you up to be a bit more vulnerable. And a lot of,

我认为很多人都害怕脆弱，因为我们害怕别人会认为我们在教育他们时不够合格，或者在经验或技能上不够合格，或者如果他们看到我有这些挣扎，那他们为什么会信任我来帮助他们？而事实上，反而是相反的，对吧？如果有人看到这些事情，他们更有可能倾向于你，觉得他们可以与你产生共鸣。哦，我非常同意。我一直告诉女性，

我一直在说，听着，你的信息不必完美。它对某些人来说是完美的。是的。我们中的许多人都是完美主义者。所以你说得对。如果我们觉得自己不是合适的人来教育、帮助、指导或提供那种可关联的见解，我认为这确实

也是阻止一些女性播客的原因，尤其是。我不知道。我在这里泛泛而谈。我觉得男性会说，随便，我就要出去大声说出来，没关系。出于某种原因，我们作为女性群体更为保守。因此，我们必须被指导和给予许可，去变得脆弱，讲述你的故事。

是的。好吧，我认为这也是作为女性的一个礼物，对吧？我们可能比一些男性更倾向于以这种方式变得脆弱和开放。哦，这太强大了。好吧，在Crystal的日常生活中，你知道，作为一名文案撰写人，你的生活是什么样的？是的。

所以我们实际上有两个业务方面。我们有KC Copy Studio，我会大致概述一下，因为我在这两个方面之间进行平衡。第二个是业务的教练和教育部分，我在其中指导文案撰写人发展他们的业务。

所以在文案工作室，我真的会在一周开始时深入讨论我们正在进行的任何新项目。因此，与我们的初级文案撰写人和客户一起，我们会深入探讨基本的消息传递。这将包括故事、理想客户、我们进行的研究。这实际上形成了我们所讨论的一切的基础，这是讲故事和与人建立联系所必需的。

然后我每天都与我的教练客户密切合作。因此，我在我们的社区中回答问题，与他们一对一交谈，然后在该项目中主持我们的实际培训和大师班。如果你是墙上的苍蝇，你会看到我真的优先考虑我们的客户，

首先。我们有一个小而精干的团队。我非常喜欢这一点。这使我们能够在如何服务客户方面变得非常出色和具体，无论是在工作室还是在我们的项目中，真正倾注于他们。然后下一层就是为我们的受众提供支持，

播客是我日程中的一个重要部分。因此，投入大量时间进行播客制作。当然，作为一名文案撰写人，电子邮件是我的首选之一。因此，如果我不在与客户合作，我几乎是在为我们的受众创建内容。好的，当然，我必须把她引入播客的部分。让我们谈谈你的播客，它是如何帮助你发展业务的，以及你如何看待它作为营销策略的一部分。

你知道，有趣的是，我上周和我的搭档Dale谈到这个。我说，因为我们有一个教练客户正在推出播客。我对他说，你知道吗？我开始这个播客时并不知道它会是什么样子，也不知道会有什么结果。我真的很感激我这样做了。但现在回想起来，我可以看到它能产生多大的影响。正如你在这次对话开始时所说，播客对女性经营企业和与人建立联系是多么强大。

所以《自由发现播客》是一个围绕创业和当然营销的播客。因此，你将获得营销、文案写作的精彩内容。然后我还分享了很多关于创业、保持动力、获得灵感以及真正转变心态的内容。我看到我在播客上进行的那些对话真的转化为直接销售。我昨天收到了一个DM，有人听到我在本周播出的播客中提到与客户一对一合作的事情。

询问是否可以与我合作，这是一个微小的例子。它真的在内容创作和客户连接之间架起了一座桥梁。我无法告诉你在过去几年中它带来了多少收入，但数量是巨大的，无法计算。我觉得我参加的大多数销售电话中，

人们提到我听过每一集，或者我刚刚花时间听你的播客，或者我刚刚发现它，几乎是定期的。所以你可能会发现同样的事情。就像是潜在客户的心中始终挂念着你。是的。我们实际上刚刚推出了Podcast Her网络，这是一个女性主持的播客网络，因为我从人们那里得到的最多的问题是，如何让我的播客赚钱？

而我带他们经历的这种思维转变是，它不是关于赞助广告。停止关注，哦，有人需要付钱给我播客，而是开始关注，如果你在利润和损失报表上有一个ROI项目，

那么有多少应该分配给播客？因为你是对的。你未来的许多客户都在通过他们的AirPods、YouTube、流媒体收听你，并做出内部决定，当时机成熟时，我会打电话给她，与她合作。绝对。恭喜你推出这个。哦，那个线索确实来自播客。是的。

是的。我认为这就是为什么确保在销售电话或询问表中提出这些问题是如此重要的原因，实际上开始跟踪和查看指标。人们来自哪里？我发现人们要么以某种方式找到播客，然后

是的。

是的。我喜欢说，你的Instagram存在就像是进入你世界的欢迎垫。然后他们会做两件事之一。他们要么会去你的网站，狂热地浏览你网站上的所有内容，要么他们会直接去播客。但如果他们去网站，他们可能仍然会最终在播客上。所以我们都会在你的播客的客厅里进行对话。在那里，他们做出购买决定，因为那是他们开始信任你的地方，了解你，喜欢你，所有的一切。

无论他们是否准备好，是否甚至在脑海中意识到，我需要文案写作。但如果他们在听你，或者他们一直在听你，或者他们被介绍给你，那么当他们意识到他们需要它时，他们会想到，哦，我在播客上听过这个女孩，他们会回去找它。

是的，完全正确。我自己也是这样。我是一名播客主持人，我是一个狂热的播客听众。我手机中有一个笔记部分，专门记录那些我觉得非常好的剧集。我知道第一次听的时候，我没有从中获得所有的信息。我会在需要X或Y主题的信息时，回去再听一遍。太棒了。我迫不及待想听你的播客。

哦，你太好了。我喜欢听你的播客，以及你带来的能量，并继续围绕播客进行对话。因为我看到很多人谈论开始播客，尤其是教练会帮助他们的客户说，哦，是的，你应该开始播客。然后对话就结束了。因此，为了成为一名优秀的播客主持人，这就是我的经验。你告诉我你的想法。

你必须不断发展，思考你将如何在播客上展现最好的自己。对我来说，我在过去一年中花了很多时间学习如何提高演讲技巧，与观众建立联系，甚至是我们关于讲故事的主题。我该如何展现自己，并以更好的方式创造内容，而我看到很多人并没有谈论这些，因为就像，开始它，然后对话就结束了。哦，我的天，这真是一个很好的引入，正是我做我所做事情的原因。当...所以我从房地产行业出来，在COVID期间随意开始了播客。让我教房地产代理人如何成为更好的代理人，因为我在这方面做得很好，然后爱上了教学、沟通和通过播客建立联系。它演变成了女性创业。

我最终转向真正教授如何使用播客的细微差别的原因是，我的意思是，我报名参加了六个关于如何开始播客的数字课程。我都参加了，因为每一个课程都有一点我学到的东西，或者是我不知道的技巧或窍门，或者是其他数字课程没有告诉我的东西。但然后问题是，现在该怎么办？

</context> <raw_text>0 没有人真的在教你，好吧，现在该怎么办？我可以找到很多关于麦克风或如何做这件事的YouTube视频或其他播客，但没有人深入探讨，为什么它如此强大，以及如何让它对你有利？我当时想，哦我的天，这就是我必须为人们做的事情，因为天哪，这是一片将您的业务提升到下一个水平的雷区。

确实如此。我也喜欢这个故事。你根本不知道你要跳入的那一件事情。比如我将学习如何制作播客并教育房地产经纪人，结果成为了一个全新体验和影响更多人的起点。这是混乱的。当你转变时，它是混乱的，你...

你知道，这有点像心理障碍。你必须能够说，哦我的天，我做对了吗？但我越深入其中，我相信你也是如此。你内心深处知道，是的，这绝对是我应该在的地方，因为看看我所产生的影响。是的，绝对如此。我也认为，播客制作是非常辛苦的工作。因此，在前50集或第一年时，很容易坐下来想，哇，这真是太多工作了。这值得吗？但它是有回报的，你只需继续学习和发展。正如你所说，这成为了一段美丽的旅程，真正转化为您业务的巨大增长。

对我来说，这可能不是那么难以弄清楚所有的工作，因为我来自房地产。说实话，它们实际上非常相似。因此，几乎任何人都可以在美国获得房地产执照。

开设播客几乎没有进入的障碍。因此，任何人都可以做到。困难的部分在于，如何让它运作以及如何保持一致。因此，在我看来，无论是麦克风还是为房地产寻找客户和销售，这没有什么不同。我必须弄清楚一个行业，那是狂野的西部，因为没有人真正监管它，也没有人在告诉你该怎么做，在告诉你如何开始之后。

嗯，确实如此。我敢打赌文案写作也很相似，对吧？是的。是的。这是一个没有人监管的旅程。我将如何自我监管？我将如何与人们联系以了解我应该如何做？你知道，我认为这就像狂野的西部。你知道，在定价、与客户合作、如何自我营销方面有很多不同的方法。有很多

不道德和不道德的做法。因此，如果你能成为自己以及其他人的灯塔，就像你通过播客所做的，我通过文案写作所做的，我认为你在一个没有监管且没有这些规范的行业中处于一个非常黄金的位置。这也使你在行业中更加突出。好吧，最后一个问题，然后我们就结束这个话题，但

人工智能还是非人工智能？你有什么看法？哦，好的问题。这取决于上下文。在文案写作的世界。在文案写作领域。听着，我今天早上在一个文案写作的Facebook小组中与一些文案写作者交谈，他们在说，人工智能是否是许多文案写作者今年缓慢的原因？我告诉他们，根据我的经验，我辅导了很多文案写作者。

今年只有两位文案写作者因为人工智能失去了各自的一个客户。文案写作行业和其他在线服务行业中发生的大多数事情，在我看来...

基于我与之合作的人以及他们的反对意见，更多的是对在线市场的犹豫。很多人在过去几年中受到了伤害。在线工作的人数激增。就像我们刚刚谈到的狂野西部，没有监管。你知道，存在很多不信任，还有很多关于经济的讨论，人们收紧了钱包。因此...

虽然我认为人工智能在文案写作中受到不公正的评价，但我认为它是一个美丽的工具，并带来了我们可以做的巨大潜力。我们目前不使用人工智能来协助任何客户项目或其他业务，因为说实话，它还没有达到那个水平。你知道，我们可以做一些很棒的事情，我们在内部运营中使用了

一些人工智能，以帮助我们的运营更加高效和有效。但在撰写文案时，您需要扎实的基础，包括深入的市场研究、客户声音研究、服务、采访您的实际受众，和他们坐在Zoom上与真实的人交谈。

然后制定一个有效的消息传递策略。也许有一天人工智能可以为我们做这些繁琐的工作，但现在还没有。因此，我认为我们应该尽可能利用人工智能来减轻我们的责任。它基本上平衡了

那些能够支付更多员工的公司的竞争环境。它使我们能够利用人工智能运行更精简、更高效的团队，做一些我们过去无法做到的事情。但就写作而言，我真的认为您需要在其中投入大量精力，您可以使用人工智能写作工具，但仍然要用自己的眼睛去审视。确保它符合

您真正想要传达的信息，并影响您的最终读者，达到您想要的期望行动和情感结果。因此，是的，但我们仍然需要一些时间。我很期待看到明年发布的，或者是2025年发布的下一个chat GPT版本，它将是什么样子，以及它将把我们带到哪里。绝对如此。好吧，Crystal，这真是太棒了。你真是太可爱了。我们可以做些什么来放大你和你的业务？我们的观众如何最容易找到你？

哦，你真是太甜了。和你交谈真是太好了。非常感谢。如果您想与我联系，请来打个招呼。我在Instagram上，每天都在故事中和我的DM中，我非常喜欢听到您的声音。我的用户名是@crystal.church。我的拼写是K-R-Y-S-T-L-E。所以是crystal.church。您还可以与我联系并收听我的播客《自由发现播客》。我的网站是crystalchurch.com。

是crystal结尾的E让我困惑。我当时想，是的，crystal。通常是L，我们是L E。谢谢你，妈妈。好吧，大家，和往常一样，听着，这是你的业务。掌控它，发展它，并给它装上麦克风以进行扩展。我下周同一时间、同一地点再见。

您刚刚完成了另一集V Word播客。为您干杯。如果我和您在一起，我会真的打开一瓶大瓶的Prosecco并给您倒一杯。既然我不在，为什么不做下一件最好的事情，把这一集分享给您最好的朋友之一？因为我们都知道您有一个需要听到这个的女友。谢谢，朋友们。

等一下，等一下，等一下，等一下，等一下，等一下。在您离开之前，您能否快速花一秒钟在B-Word播客上给我留下评论？这确实对我们如何为新朋友展示自己产生了巨大的影响。为了感谢您，因为我妈妈总是教我，您应该发送感谢信或回赠礼物。

我们在B Word上每个月都有一个免费的礼物。所以在您留下评论后，赶快去抓一张截图，然后访问thebwordpodcast.com/review。上传给我，我会立即给您发送一个免费礼物。提前谢谢您。