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cover of episode It's tax time in China too…

It's tax time in China too…

2025/4/6
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The Bridge to China

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Beibei
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Jason Smith
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Jason Smith: 我在美国生活期间,对美国的税收制度深有体会。繁琐的报税流程、大量的表格和文件、各种各样的税种(包括收入税、消费税、房产税、遗产税和关税)以及由此产生的巨大焦虑感,让我感到不堪重负。与之相比,沙特阿拉伯没有个人所得税,这让我对美国税收制度的效率和公平性产生了质疑。虽然一些高税收国家(如丹麦、芬兰和卢森堡)的国民幸福指数较高,但这并不意味着高税收就一定能带来幸福。美国的税率虽然表面上只有37%,但实际上可能接近50%,因为还有各种隐性税收。 此外,美国也有类似的福利项目,如失业救济金和残疾人福利,但这些福利的范围不如中国的全面。美国税法中也包含了对多子女家庭的支持政策,根据抚养人数的不同,税收等级也会发生变化,甚至可能免税或获得政府补贴。 Beibei: 中国的税收制度与美国截然不同。在中国,税款通常在发工资前就已扣除,购物时也无需额外缴纳税款,这大大简化了流程,也减少了人们的焦虑感。此外,中国政府还通过各种税收减免政策,将财富从富人重新分配到穷人。例如,租房者可以获得每月800元甚至1500元的租金补贴,低收入家庭可以获得低保金和五保户等社会福利,老年人可以获得老年补贴,生育家庭可以获得生育补贴。这些政策不仅能帮助低收入者改善生活,也能减轻他们的心理负担。 即使是从事非正式工作的家政人员,也能获得基本的社会福利,包括医疗保险。我的阿姨就是个例子,她虽然没有稳定的工作,但仍然可以获得医疗保障,并且每年还能带家人外出旅游。中国政府还出台了各种鼓励生育的政策,例如对二孩和三孩家庭提供补贴,以及对3岁以下儿童提供育儿费用税收减免。这些政策旨在减轻养育孩子的经济压力,鼓励人们生育更多孩子。

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter introduces the concept of tax season in China, contrasting it with the US tax system. It highlights the universal feeling of stress and anxiety associated with tax filing and shares anecdotes about the IRS's pursuit of taxpayers across borders.
  • Tax season in China
  • Comparison with US tax system
  • Anecdotes about IRS

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

In the USA, on Tuesday, April 15th of this year, 2025, the last day to file federal taxes is imminent unless you have an extension. You may not know it, but it's also tax season in China. Welcome to The Bridge, enlightening conversations on world cultures, life, and everything in between. ♪

Hey, everyone. This is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. Hey, everyone. My name is Jason Smith. I am originally from sunny California and now living in beautiful Beijing. Today with me is Bebe. Hey, Jason. So is it too late for me to pull out now?

We're talking about taxes now. You know, I saw the word tax time in the title of the document you sent me. I didn't want to open it. One of the reasons. Yeah, that's how I feel about doing my taxes. Yeah, seriously. So I'm not alone. That's why like accountants in the U.S. never like run out of jobs. They don't have to worry about not having a job.

And I think one of the reasons why I chose not to live in the States is because all the like the junk mail and insurance or the forms you have to fill out. And to cap all that is tax. Like, why do we have to do this by ourselves? Why can't everything just like work out automatically? They have computers, right? Here's my pay. Just take things out. Yeah.

So, you know, that's a really good point. Like I always it is very confusing. If you file wrong and you send it to the IRS in the United States case, they'll just send it back and say, oh, that's not correct. Well, if they already know why I have to say, why do I have to send them anything? That's a really good question. Like, I think we lose we spend so much energy and.

Anxiety, just worrying about tax. It's not for everyone, right? Some people have the brains for doing their own taxes. Some people are just not smart that way. And it's very taxing, like the filing process itself.

And also, it reminds me of one of the videos I came across a few weeks ago. It's this guy from Europe somewhere, maybe from Germany. And he was or somewhere else. I don't remember where they have really high tax rates.

right for um something like above 50 so he was really happy to to like come and work in the us he was like wow like it's only 30 life is so much better and then he worked here for a few years in the states for a few years and there's like there it's like exaggerating right so they would have the irs guy knocking on his store making sure that he's paying his taxes

And then he left. He went to like another country. He's just like working there for a few years. And then someday there is knocking at the door and he opens it. It's the same IRS guy from the US, you know, reminding him that you got to pay for your taxes, even though you're not. He's like, I'm not American citizen. It's like, yeah, but you've worked here. And then he went back to his home country and like the guy chased him out, chased after him.

all the way like wherever he was he's like I'm never getting out of this nightmare it was really funny and

Anyhow. You know, I saw this interview on Instagram about a week or two ago. It's just a guy from Saudi Arabia who couldn't believe he was talking about the United States. But, you know, I think he means basically everywhere. You know, in America, you guys have to pay, you know, 40 percent for taxes or whatever. You mean to say that five months out of the year, all of the work that you do is just to go to pay the government? That's crazy, because in Saudi Arabia, they don't have taxes. What do you mean? They just use...

revenue from oil to pay for public infrastructure. And there aren't taxes. Nobody. So people working there, they don't pay any tax? Nothing. Nothing. Really? Never heard of it. Really? Wow. Yeah. Well, yeah. I don't know what to say. They just have so much national wealth that there's no need for taxes. So, you know, that's pretty cool. But Norway, Norway has a lot of, they probably have the highest national tax

like what do they call it? There's a name for that. Like the money they're saving for the country. You know how like US has a huge deficit, but like Norway has, I think one of the highest national wealth account, something like this. There's like another word for it. I don't remember. Forex? Forex? No, it's not that. But anyhow, so they're really, like the country is really rich. Like if you average that money out for every citizen in Norway, everybody is a millionaire.

But they're not like just giving it out, right? They're saving it. Switzerland has the same thing. They're just very wealthy. Yeah, they're just somehow. And they probably don't have a large population. If you have like 1.4 billion people, it's down to like 100 bucks per person. Well, I have some data for comparing international tax rates. This is from visualcapitals.com. Mapped the highest marginal income tax rates in each country.

And it has a list of all the countries with the highest taxes. On the top three, Denmark, 55.9%. Finland, 55%. Luxembourg, 51%. So in all three of these countries, more than half of your time working goes to pay the government taxes. But I should also add that people in these countries are considered by a lot of international surveys to be the happiest people in the world.

Huh, okay. Well, last time I heard it was... What's the... Anyhow, never mind. I don't remember the name for that country. My point is, most of the taxes in these countries, they go to like...

Schools and roads and bridges and they take care of old people. There's no worry about, you know, being homeless and stuff. Like, so these countries really take care. They use that money. It's socialism. It's basically, yeah, these countries are called by the United States socialist countries and those countries, they take care of their people. So I want to talk about the U S first, because I'm from there and it says that there's a 37% tax rate for

excluding local taxes and surcharges. So that's what it says on the chart from Visual Capitalist. I want to point out what that means and why it's really, really significant. So firstly, out of your basic income, the average person, which is skewed by billionaires, by the way, and there's quite a few of them now, and they hold a lot of our wealth. Uh,

We pay an average of 37% taxes, and that's just for income. But if you – then you have state taxes also. So at the same time you're filing your federal taxes, then I would also have to pay my taxes in California. So I have to pay my California state taxes at the same time as my federal taxes. And then –

We have something very special in the United States that I've never seen in any other country. They may have it in other countries, but I've never seen it. And that is when you go to buy something, you have to pay another tax to buy the thing that you're buying. So you pay taxes when you're buying things. You pay taxes when you

making money. You pay taxes when you give someone else money. You pay taxes when someone passes away and you inherit their goods. You pay taxes on your property in the United States. And then you also pay taxes in the form of tariffs on other countries when goods are being imported into the United States and causes that good to become more expensive at the grocery store. So the 37% tax in the US that's on this chart is very misleading, and it is much closer to actually like 50%.

Yeah. As you were saying that, I can see, you know, the emo icons getting sadder and sadder. But I think we do have to pay like shopping, kind of shopping tax here in China, too. Oh, yeah. So it's called value added tax, right? VAT. It applies to goods, services and imports. But the thing is, it's already included in the price you pay. Oh.

So like you're paying it, but you're just not getting the hurt, you know, from paying it. Like in the U S it's just more explicit. And

And also on top of that, like for services in the U.S., you have to pay tip, which is which I heard is now getting quite crazy. Like, oh, it's close. In some cases, you start at 30 percent and then the range is up to 100 percent. Well, so, yeah. And when you get the bill like that hurts on top of the VAT and you get the service and it just it's very discouraging.

And here in China, one of the things I like about living here is that you don't have to worry about a lot of these things. You do pay tax, but it's taken out from the pay before. They just work it out. What you get is just the final amount. And then when you go shop, it's the same thing.

You don't have to worry about like doing a lot of the paperwork. And same for insurance. Like back in the States, you know, when I hear the word insurance, my stomach tightens because it's just it's just like charts. You know, you have to fill out these things, making all these choices. And you worked on Wall Street. Like, aren't you like a number person? I left after two years. So.

I was not one of the survivors and they gave me like stomach ulcers for like after working there for just six months. It's not my thing. But I'm saying is like on top of paying all that, you get another layer of anxiety from having to deal with it. Like when I lived in the States, making a lot of choices, like even when you go shop, you have to choose what percentage of tip to give. I mean, like, can't you just like,

you know, take something away and let me not worry about it. Because I think people don't, they underestimate the potency of anxiety and worry. Here in China, I don't see any of that. Like, I don't get junk mail. I don't get, like, my insurance guy doesn't bother me. Every year, it just takes the money away and I'm covered. That's it. It's really simple. Like, mentally, I'm clean. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah.

You're listening to The Bridge. Well, I want to add to what you said because it's not that what you're describing is actually not that dissimilar. So I don't want people to be like, oh, that's not correct. So in the U.S., if you are a wage paid or you have a salary paid, you're not a business owner of any kind or you don't work for yourself, your employer also does take your taxes out.

each month based on what they anticipate? Is that what you should owe? At the end of the year or at this time of the year, around April, the actual difference is you have to go and see if they did it correctly. And sometimes you have to pay a little more or pay a little less. And sometimes the government gives you money back or you have to give the government money depending on your circumstances, your total income and all kinds of other things.

So you do pay it throughout the year. But what you're saying, and I've experienced it here in China, is actually much more efficient. But what happens in the United States is similar. They're constantly taking money out, but then they usually just get it wrong. And there's so many changes and then you have to change everything anyway. And so all that stuff you said about getting emails and phone calls all the time about all your bills is still true. See, a couple years ago, maybe two or three years ago,

Maybe longer than that. I don't remember. Someone told me about downloading an app for getting text backs. What? So getting like text cuts. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Claiming texts back. Like, I just completely ignored it. They were like, oh, it's not...

paying your tax is if they can if they have already taken out too much yes you can go claim it back you know on this app yes i was like i don't care you're talking about in china yeah in china i was like i don't care you know i don't want to think about this thing so i never downloaded i was asking i was asking the person it was like so if i how much money have you lost baby i have i don't even make all that much so it's it can't be a lot no but the

thing it's a funny thing it's gotta be a lot the funny thing was so the person um was asking me like oh the person was telling me that you could download this and work things out maybe you get some money back and I was like do I do I go to jail if I don't download this or if I don't claim my money back she's like uh no I'm like okay I'm not doing it

Oh, no, baby. Can I tell you? You've tragically made a terrible mistake. Because even if you made almost nothing, even if you just made like, I don't know, you just have a small business selling lemonade in your front yard and you made a thousand kuai last year, you could still potentially get 20, 30,000 RMB back. What do you mean? From tax? What?

So, yes, from the Chinese tax agency. So what happens in China is I'll give you one example of this. There's many different fields. This is just the one that I personally used several years ago. I can't anymore. So if you do not own a home, which is not true in your case or in my case, but if you do not own a home in China.

and you pay rent and you provide proof that you paid rent like a contract, that's it. And you go to the tax office and you claim this one deduction. That's what it's called. If you claim this deduction, hey, I paid rent for 12 months last year. I do not own a home. Here's my lease. They will give you 800 RMB per month. Wow. Per month, baby, for that entire year. So that's 800 RMB times 12. They will give that money to you. And

And you will just, even if you didn't pay that much in taxes, they'll give you that much money. Wait, what? This is a way that China, yeah, let me, I'll finish and then you can ask. They redistribute wealth from the richest people to the poorest people. When the poorest people have certain kinds of expenses and bills and they can prove it and it's not that hard to prove, then the government takes money from the richest people in the tax system and gives it to the poorest people. What?

But does it matter how much you were making, though? Okay. Do you have to be poor? You have to be below a certain threshold. So, I mean, the threshold might be like 100,000 RMB, though. So even if you... 100,000? Yeah. Oh, that's...

That's a lot. There are different thresholds for different rebates and different deductions. So depending on your income bracket, you can look at all the deductions that exist on that app that you didn't download. And then if you say you made almost next to nothing, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much you paid into the system. They will still pay all that money out to you. And you could theoretically make more money from tax deductions than you actually made in your real income.

And you actually got the money? Wow. Okay. I didn't miss out a lot. After a month, they deposited the money into my bank account. Wow. Because I rented for years. And I wasn't making that much. Huh. Okay. This new law for rent came into effect four or five years ago. I used it for two or three years and I bought a home. So I'm no longer eligible to receive that. But at the time, I was making pretty good money. And I still got that money back.

So, you know, I want to say they have done this in the U.S. in the past. There have been years, especially during the pandemic and other times when people below certain thresholds or in some cases just everybody received payouts from the government. And if you made below a certain amount, you would get that back money back. Yeah.

from the taxes that you paid. But for very poor people, they actually receive more money from the government than they pay in taxes. So, you know, for someone who makes like

$10,000 or $15,000 in the U.S., but they're some kind of full-time employee, they may end up getting money back from the federal government even though they didn't pay anything to begin with. So there's similar things here in China. I know about two kinds. You know the time when Chinese citizens and American citizens were sorting out things on Xiaohongshu, the app, the red note? Yeah. And one time I saw this app

this guy from the US and he was asking Chinese netizens about and also I don't know if you've heard about it but I'll explain so he was saying like have you guys heard of these systems in China like like how like the people at

at the absolute bottom of the society can benefit from this, from China's five guarantees household system. So that's what it means. Five is 五保, is like you are protected.

Hu is like family. So Wubaohu is a social welfare program in China that provides comprehensive support to the most vulnerable individuals, but described as primarily elderly, disabled, and orphaned citizens who

lack family support or means of subsistence. Maybe they're disabled, they can't work, and they don't have kids to support them. So basically, the program ensures the following necessities.

which are called five guarantees. Food, for one thing, regular fruit supplies or cash for meals. So they will actually like bring the rice, the oil, the eggs and vegetables to your house on a regular basis. And clothing, provision of clothing, basic necessities, and also healthcare. They actually have full medical coverage, including free or heavily subsidized treatment.

And they have housing, free or subsidized housing, like subsidized, like rural nursing homes or welfare institutions. And they have funeral expenses because they have no family to look after them. You know, so burial, cremation costs covered for childless elderly. So that's what it means by five guarantees. And to qualify for this category, for this social benefit,

You would have to have no income, no working ability and no family support. And mostly it's for elderly above the age of 60 without children or relatives to care for them or disabled individuals or orphans with no guardians. And a lot of them are disabled.

Fascinating. Yeah. And I remember... After the show, can you send me these notes? I would like to actually share some of this information on my other social media. Oh, okay, sure. I thought you were going to apply for this. I was going to say...

You're not quite eligible for that. But I remember this video from, you know how like Chinese government workers at the most grassroots level, like they work in these villages and a lot of them work for poverty alleviation. And there's this... Yeah. Even Xi Jinping did that for a while. He lived in a cave in a village. That's where he started, literally from the most basic unit. Yeah.

So in this video, this, like the grassroots government worker was visiting one of the 五宝户. So one of these older guys with like no family attachment. And he brought over like, you know, food, oil, eggs, rice, noodles, and you know, all that, and clothing. And the guy was still unhappy. And the worker was like, so, you know, what else can we do for you? And he was like,

I don't need these. I need a wife. Find me a woman. He kept repeating this request. And the government worker was literally scratching his head because he was like, I don't even have a girlfriend. Like,

know how to help you. And the elderly guy was exasperated. He's like, I've been living without a woman for decades. That's what I need. You know, I don't really need more oil or rice.

The worker was like, oh gosh, I have to think about how I can help you. So that's one example. But you wouldn't really have... And this guy, he was just older. He was healthy. He could probably still farm. But he was not a very happy guy because he did not have a wife. So this is 五寶户 and there's also 第一寶.

Have you heard about that? I haven't. Please. I'm very curious. Sure. Diba is officially known as the minimum minimum living standard guarantee. So that's China's primary social welfare program designed to

to provide financial assistance to the poorest citizens. And it was introduced in the urban areas in 1997 and then expanded to rural areas in 2007. So the five guarantee system is geared more toward people like in rural households. I think DBAO is, you know, applies to both urban and rural recipients. So basically, this is to ensure that all Chinese citizens, they get a minimal stipend

standard of living and it provides cash transfers and additional social benefits and they target groups basically urban and rural residents with per capita household income below the local poverty threshold so that depends on where you are right for major cities it's higher for example for Shanghai so the

the minimum level is 1,430 RMB per month per person. So if you make less than that, so that's what, $200 per month? If you make less than $200 per month, you are eligible for this. But if you're in, say, a rural village in Gansu province, that amount is about 400 RMB per month. So it depends on, you know, the local poverty threshold.

And so it often includes elderly without pensions, disabled individuals, unemployed families, and rural subsistence farmers. And according to data from 2023, it covers 11.5 million urban recipients, and they get about 700 to 1,200 RMB per month per household. So, I mean, it's not like...

a great amount, but you could live on this, right? And it covers 33 million rural recipients. Well, actually, I feel like we need to add some information for our foreign listeners because...

the sum of the numbers are kind of low, but I want people to understand that in rural villages in China, even the poorest people own their own home and have no payments associated. They don't make real estate payments. They don't make tax payments. So the money that they're receiving that Bebe is talking about is just for basically like food and clothes. They don't even pay for food. Like in rural areas, people grow their own vegetables. People rarely buy vegetables and they have...

You know, food is just basic. So it's just for like some spending. And I know that my relatives living in rural areas of China, especially the elderly, did you know that they have like a special bonus for elderly citizens? Like the older you get, the more money you get from the government. Like I can talk about that later. So it's like a great incentive for people to live longer.

Because you can collect money from the government just because you're living, you know, like above 90. I think it starts at 80. Some people, some areas starts at 70. You're saying if I can make it to 90, I'm going to be like rich. This is great. I'm going to lose weight right away. I got to increase my chances of living. Isn't it?

Extra bonus. I mean, it's not a lot of money. But anyhow, back to the Dibao system, which is the minimum living standard, which is a minimum living standard guarantee.

So let's see. There are three no's, priority groups for this. So no income, no working ability, and no family support. So orphans or severely disabled people, they can be eligible for this. And so the benefits include money.

monthly cash transfers. So it covers the gap between household income and the debile threshold and healthcare. So debile holders, they get higher medical insurance reimbursement, like 70 to 90% coverage. And that's really important.

Important because psychologically, you don't have to worry about not having health insurance, which can be a huge mental burden. Like if I go travel to the States now, like I will be without insurance. It would be something that hangs over my head every single day that I'm there. Right. Because anything happens, the bill is going to be astronomical.

So even if you're really poor here in China, you have some basic medical insurance and also additional subsidies can cover education. So tuition waivers, textbook subsidies and stipend for students and housing. We actually talk about

this a little bit in one of the shows years back. You can get priority access to low rent housing or utility fee reductions. I'm really interested in this. Do you have all the information or can we do another show about low income housing another time? Because I would love to learn from you. It's hard for me as a foreigner to find out all this information, but that's very fascinating for a lot of foreigners. Maybe another show. I don't have the info now, but I remember it

In one of the shows we did back... Let's do one. I found an example in another province, another city. The family got to live in this apartment for...

something like 80 something RMB or 200. I don't remember. It was like, it was nothing. So if it's 80, that's like 12 bucks. It was really just nothing. Yeah. But they, you have to be eligible for that though. Um, and some cities even provide, uh, vultures for food and fuel. Um,

So for this debao system, the urban debao benefits are usually two to three times higher than rural ones because of cost of living. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, like just to survive in a city like Shanghai.

It's a different story from surviving in a rural place where, as you mentioned, people have places to live, usually have families too. Yeah. So these are two major systems, D-BAL system and the five guarantee system. And the medical coverage is a whole new chapter. One thing I wondered about was my aunt,

which is my hourly... She's not a nanny. Like, you know, she comes to help with domestic chores, domestic work. So she works under some kind of, like, institution.

like a private workplace, but she's not really attached. Like she has her own customers. Like I've been her customer for like 10 years and I pay her by cash. And she works for like four, maybe at least four families go to each house for, you know, two hours a day, something like that. And she gets paid by cash all the time. By cash, I mean like electrical. By cash, I mean like transfers on WeChat, you know, some kind of payment.

So she, I don't think she pays any taxes or maybe she pays some minimum like range so that she gets social benefit. And that's got to be very, very little. But I know that she has health coverage, like the basic social benefits, she gets all of them. So even though she's working as like a, what do you call these categories of workers? No.

Something like that. Yeah. Maid or, you know, people working as domestic workers who are basically on their own in a way. Right. It's not under like a closely regulated workplace. She still gets all the basic benefits, which I think is great. You know, she gets to keep all the cash. She's actually making a very, very nice salary. I mean, she goes to like a,

She goes with her husband, her child, to vacations like twice a year. She was already talking about... Seriously, like I went to Shanghai recently and I came back. She was like, oh, did you go to Disneyland? Did you go to this and that place? And we're planning to visit Zhangjiajie later this year. She's been to more... I want to go so bad too. She's been to more nice places than I have.

Wow. That's amazing. That's great. So you're saying a very low-income urban worker with their salary combined with government benefits is able to go on two weeks of fully self-funded vacation every single year. More than two weeks. I wish more Americans could hear. I wish more Americans could hear this show right now. They would be like mouth wide open shocked. She takes three weeks off for spring festival.

And maybe I'm a little emotional when I say this because that's like the hardest time of the year when families... Oh no, who will take out the trash in Bebe's house? Seriously, when all urban families who have domestic help, those are the most desperate weeks of the year when they're...

Ais, nannies go off to their vacation. Yeah, seriously. There's people over and there's like family everywhere and you're cooking more than ever before and you're on your own. Yeah, we're on our own. Exactly. So basically...

I've never actually had a housekeeper like that you're talking about. You know, I had that one time and I was so, I was so unhappy because I was, I signed up for this one app. They're a very good company. I don't want to say anything bad about them. Not going to say their name, but they're an app for finding an apartment. I was renting at this time. This was four or five years ago. And we signed up for this app through to rent an apartment, which is a very solid way to do it. A lot of people do use this company.

And we were like, okay, great. Moved into the apartment and a lady showed up and said, I'm here to clean. I said, what? She said, it's in your contract. I come once a week. I'm obligated to come and clean your apartment once a week. And I was so dissatisfied with this because I don't, I like my privacy a lot. I don't want someone in my house. So I just said, okay, fine. You can just clean the bathroom and then leave. That's it. So this lady would show up once a week and clean the bathroom and leave. And that was like, okay, the maximum,

like someone else could come into my house and clean my house for, and that was only for one year. I felt very uncomfortable with someone doing that too. She's like, no, I have to, it's my job. I can't just leave. I was like, no, no, no, just go away. And I'll tell them that you clean. And she said, no. And I was like, fine, just clean the bathroom and leave. So for one year, this lady came and cleaned the bathroom. She doesn't know whether or not she should complain about you or be happy about a customer like you.

So she like kept scrubbing the floors in your bathroom. No, I... My bathroom was immaculate. I've never had such a clean bathroom in my life. I love my domestic help. Maybe because, I don't know, you do housework, right?

Because most of the housework... I do. Before this call, I was emptying garbage, emptying the kitty litter, you know, where the cat poops. I was cleaning that. And I was like doing washing dishes. Yeah. Every day, all day, I do chores around the house. Wow. Because my husband does none of that. Okay. He doesn't know that things like that exist. He just like complains about them once in a while and then that's it. Yeah.

So I really need domestic help. Like if my husband go on like a work trip for three weeks, I'm okay. Like, whew, like no one to like, you know, point out here's dirty, there's messy. But if my auntie or my nanny goes off for three weeks, that's a different story. You actually miss your nanny. She's the most beloved member of the family. She's treasured, man. Oh yeah.

You're listening to The Bridge.

But I also want to be fair to America. I think it sounds unbalanced. And I just want to say that we have similar programs to what you're describing in the United States. We have programs like welfare and unemployment that exist for people who have become unemployed. And so if you're unemployed for a certain amount of time, you're allowed to get a certain amount of money. It's much less than actually being employed. So the government's trying to discourage you from being unemployed. And we have benefits for people who are disabled,

Also, and state by state, we have benefits for elderly people, not because they don't have family members, but because their income is so low and things like that. And we also and welfare is temporary. And it also depends on dependence. Single person with no children typically cannot get welfare easily. But if they have two or three kids.

They can typically get some amount of income from the government, even if they're employed in some cases, because the government really wants to make sure that children are taken care of. So we have things like that also. I just think that they're more comprehensive in China. Speaking of which, I didn't find out that we have some kind of birth control.

tax refund, something like that. It's like a payment from the government after you give birth. This was, what, 10 years ago? So I was working at a formal workplace and paying taxes every month and paying taxes and all that. And after I had my daughter, I think after just like a month or a few weeks later, I received this refund from the workplace. They just

They just like one day just walked up to me and say, oh, here's money for you. It was like, what is it? She said, oh, this is like some kind of a tax reward for giving birth, like for having kids. And it was like over thirty five thousand RMB.

It was like over $5,000. I'm having babies. I'm having babies right away. Wow. It was just like, it just fell from the sky. I had no idea. Wow. It was, you know, it was a lot of money. And it was a complete happy surprise. And now there's even more benefits because the nation is encouraging people to have more kids. So nowadays, maybe the...

the policy differs across according to different provinces and cities. Uh, here are some of the policies I found. So I'd love to hear about it. Yeah. This data is from 2025, March of 2025. Whoa. So this is, this is new. Let's say in Anhui province, Hefei city, uh,

If you have another child, they give you 2,000 kuai, like right there. And if you have a third child, they give you 5,000. When you say right there, it sounds really bizarre because it's like, and push. Okay, we can see it. Here's your cash. Good job. In the delivery room.

Maybe not quite. So that's like, you know, you get it one time, right? And then there's monthly stipend. For example, Jinan City in Shandong Province, they give the second child or the third child a monthly stipend of about 600 until they're three years old. So these are like newer policies. And also in Shenzhen, I

I think they have even, they have higher stipends for even the first child. Um, so the first child, you can have a stipend of 75,000. That's like on top of the other regular, um, like tax breaks, like the thing that I got, I didn't even know what it was. I just asked, is it really for me? And like, it's illegal. It is okay. I'm taking it. I didn't even know exactly, but it was related to childbirth. So yeah. Um,

And I think maybe, you know, if you're thinking about having more kids, you can go look for updated information because they're really working on this. They're trying, really trying to make people have more kids and making child rearing an easier thing than people are

are, you know, people are afraid of taking care of more kids. Well, yeah, I think that's a really good idea. Actually, I think the United States is also thinking about doing similar things to support families who are having multiple children. In fact, it's already kind of built into the tax code because we have a dependent based system. So you have your total income that you get and then depending on how many, what they call dependents you have. So

So if you're married and you're filing together, then if you're one of you is not employed, you're their spouse becomes a dependent. Um,

So then if you have two, one, two or three children, each one of those becomes another dependent. And that actually changes the location that you are in the tax code. Your tax bracket changes, which means that you are eligible to pay less and less taxes until eventually, depending on your income, you may not pay taxes at all or the government may actually subsidize your family if you're poor enough. Yeah, I heard.

while I was living in the States, there are families who, they just have kids and they don't even have to work because they get enough already from...

subsidies. They have to have at least four or five around that number to make enough money so the mom doesn't have to work. Because for some families, the dad is not around too much. The case is not as prevalent here in China. Usually, you know,

families, like three, at least three people, less single families. You know, I have a document here I want to share some data from about kids. It's called Individual Tax, I'm sorry, Individual Income Tax in China from china-briefing.com. It's a website I go to often.

And they have some amazing data here about having children. One of the pages, IIT special edition tax deductions in China. I have no idea what that means. But it says, item, nursing expenses for children under three years old. This is national. So this is on top of what you're talking about, provincial. RMB $2,000 a month for each child. Per month? And children's per month, it says $2,000 per month.

per month for each child or 24,000 RMB each year for each child. I don't know if maybe, you know, your daughter's much older. Maybe these laws were not around at that time. Children's special expenses, 2000 a month for each child for preschool. So that's 4,000.

That's $4,000 a month for each child that these people are getting. Continuing education. Diploma for education. This is a standard deduction for a parent to choose to claim such as expenses for their child if it's for their diploma education, $400 per month.

A health care costs in case they get a serious illness. A lot of people don't understand this. They think, oh, but your insurance doesn't cover that really expensive surgery, so you can't have it. Not necessarily. Health care for serious illnesses, 80,000 RMB. So you'll have your regular national insurance. Then you can have 80,000 RMB for your child if they need a special surgery on top of that.

And then housing loan interest, you can deduct up to $1,000 per month if you have a child. So that app you talked about not downloading, you need to start. You need to get that, right? Yeah, we probably missed some of that. And also the monthly benefit you mentioned, I've heard vaguely because I don't really pay attention to numbers in daily life. It sounds like you should. You probably have more cash right now.

I should. But like the stipend, I think it can go directly to some of these public nurseries. So by nurseries, I mean kids from three to preschool, like three to six before elementary school. Because most kids here, they go to public nurseries.

And then the cost comes out to be around, like for in Beijing, I know that my cousin's daughter, when she went to kindergarten, they paid less than 2000 RMB. So less than $300 a month. And it's like a really, really nice kindergarten.

And it's attached to a major university here in the city. So each workplace, a lot of these bigger workplaces, they have their own kindergarten, kindergarten,

And it's like under the public system. So that's a lot. You know, that's what's the word? OK, so that's not a lot of money, right? Paying about 300 for child care. But we've been going we sent our daughter to a private place that's in the compound, like where we live. So it's just walking distance, three minutes away from.

And that cost us about over $4,000 per month, which is okay, right? What's $4,000 RMB? Maybe $600? Like twice the amount? Less than that. Less than $700. Yeah, $600. You're right, $600. Yeah.

So it was affordable. And then, of course, this can go up to like, you know, really expensive ones. They have these bilingual, international, this and that, kindergarten. And I don't know if you can use the benefit for that. But I know some people use this benefit attached to like nursery or child care. Yeah. And also, I just want to say something about health care for kids, because I was pretty shocked.

Because for the first few years, we did not get the social insurance for our daughter. Like finally, we worked things out. Like, as you can probably tell, like my husband and I, we're both a little, like we're into the things we do, but not like to managing our lives very, very well. But we eventually figured out how to apply for like the social health care system for our daughter. And it works so nicely. I think it's so cool.

I think we pay only what like less than $60 per year if I remember correctly it was a three digit number insurance for a person $60 a year that's amazing like if I get this wrong like please someone correct me but I remember my husband said he paid like 360 RMB RMB so like wow that's yeah that's less than $60 per year yeah it's like 55 yeah and then you get this card so

So you get this social benefit card and when you have to visit the hospital, you just swipe the card. I have that card. What are you talking about? You don't, you don't have this card? It's the same thing. Oh, well, I had it, but, but for our daughter, you know, um,

So you just give them this card where you pay and everything is deducted, like right there, without any hassle. You don't have to apply for a refund or anything. It's just taken out from the medicine, from the services, from the registration fee.

And the time when we had to actually go live in the hospital, what's the word for like becoming an inpatient? Inpatient. You know, you actually, my daughter, yeah. When my daughter had pneumonia. Yeah. Right. So she stayed in the hospital for 10 days and the bill came out to be, uh, over $2,000. But that's because we lived in a one house, like we lived in a one bedroom, um,

What do you... Ward. Is that called... Yeah, yeah, yeah. A ward, right? Your private room. You can live... Yeah, we got a private room. So that was a little more expensive, but, you know, affordable. If we lived in the shared ward, like three kids per room, then it's going to be just like a few thousand RMB. But, you know, there's a deduction too, right? You got that back? Yeah, we got that back and we eventually figured it out and...

it took out at least 60%. Like it covered at least 60%. I didn't, I don't remember the details. I just, my mind is not on these things, but it was like most of the money. So much so, just one more thing. So much so that because I bought commercial insurance for my daughter, I've been paying that for years. Wow. And I found out that the commercial insurance can also cover part of the cost for our daughter's stay at the hospital in

In the hospital. Depends on the hospital. You have to be in their system. Yeah, it is... The one I bought is in the system. And you can even cover for the... Like, for the housing, basically. For the room and service. But my husband...

He was like, you know what? The social insurance covers so much of it. I just don't feel like running to the hospital again because for the commercial insurance, you need to get all kinds of documents, like not just a receipt, but like, I don't know, at least five other items. And we are both too lazy to go get it. The hospital will usually do that. Oh, you know, you guys are so, you're so frustrating listening. No, the hospital will do that for you. Okay.

Yes. Okay. So I have private and I have public insurance. I have both like you. And I agree with your husband. 99% of the time, I just use the regular national insurance scheme that everyone uses. You know, the people's insurance that covers like 97% of people in China. It's so easy to use. I appreciate it. But I have private insurance also fully covered everything. And the only thing I use it for is one...

dental visit per year to get my teeth cleaned. And it's like worth like 200 RMB of service. And like the insurance, the cost of paying it is like thousands of RMB. So I'm totally losing money. It's just money for the insurance company. I do want to add some more things. I found some more stuff in this document I was just reading from. And this is going to encourage a lot of people listening. If you have an elderly person living in the rural area, get them.

You know what? You can make 36,000 RMB a year taking care of them. Taking care of them? What do you mean? Yes. So if you have a parent or grandparent, it says other legal dependent and it's supporting for people over 60 years old in China. In addition to the fact that they get their pension so that they can have money. If they move in with you and you take care of them, you are able to get a deduction of

of 3,000 RMB every month, or basically you make 36,000 RMB per year by taking care of grandma. And the funny thing is, the situation may just be that, you know, besides getting the money from the government, your grandma will be cooking for you, cleaning the house for you, and taking your child. Hey. Seriously.

You won't need an IE anymore. You can, grandma can move in. You can start making cash and she'll take care of the house. I never heard about that, but I think people should look into it. Speaking of elderly. And one more thing that we'll go back to elderly. I think it's interesting, but yeah, the doc, the deduction I was talking about before that was from three or four years ago that I was using for, to getting money per month for not owning a house.

It's actually now $1,500 per month. No way. So you can make, yes, it's $1,500 per month times 12 months if you don't own a home and you can prove that you pay rent in China. Go on, I'm sorry. Elderly. You can even rent places for that amount of money. Wow. Okay. I know. I know. You can actually make money by paying rent. Wow. That's amazing. Like,

Where did you go to claim this? Oh, you just go. Yeah, this is really easy. Every year around this time, exactly right now, when you're filing your taxes, you go to the tax office in China, which is in Beijing. It's right downtown. And you just show them all the documents. Here's my rental lease. Here's my whatever. And they just help you fill in the form right there at the desk. I've done it many times.

And then they say, okay, we're going to send you a check for X amount of money. And it could be tens of thousands of RMB depending on all the deductions. And the document that is in, for people who are curious, is china-briefing.com. And the name of the document is Individual Income Tax in China. You know, I have the image of me going to a tax office in China and coming out with a suitcase full of cash. Right.

Well, they deposit into your bank like a month later. Oh my gosh. I have never, like the thought of ever going to a tax office anywhere just never crossed my mind. But maybe it's not as difficult as I imagined or feared. But anyhow. You said something about elderly people? Yeah, elderly. So during the spring festival, I went back to visit my grandma from my dad's side, who is 97. Yeah.

And I heard my aunt talking, chatting with my grandma, saying that, you know, you just don't worry about anything. You just keep on living. The older you are, the more benefit you get from the government. It's a way of encouraging her, you know, to still look forward to staying alive, basically. So the elderly, there's an elderly stipend. You know, I think you can start collecting them when you are 80.

It's not much, but it's like a sweet bonus for elderly people. Because maybe it's just like 100 RMB, right, in some rural areas. But because people of that age, most of them in rural areas, they don't have a pension from workplace. So this could be some cash they have. And for people who are 90 to 99, maybe...

maybe you get a like 200 RMB. And then if you live to be above 100, like my grandma is just less than three years away from being 100. And then she'll be able to collect like she's 97. So yeah, only two and a half years away. And then she'll be able to collect 600 RMB per month just for being alive, for being 100. And this is from government. It's like free money. So just thinking-

I don't think, does she have a pension? She's never really worked because she farmed. But I'm not too sure. But there is some kind of social, some kind of cash she gets from just from being a citizen of the country. This is on top of that. This is just for like a huge bonus for you being, you know, for living long, basically. It's independent of the other things.

And then for the same policy, if you are in Shandong province, you know how in Shandong, your wife is from Shandong, right? Yes. Shandong is all about, you know, Confucianism and filial piety. So the...

old age bonus is actually higher in Shandong province. It's like 1.5 times the regular amount in other provinces. Yeah, so it's just like, you know, an enticement almost for elderly people to just keep living, right? Keep enjoying your lives. There's something else to look forward to every month. You know, you get this cash.

And also this, the age requirement. Stay alive, grandma, 600 more. Yeah, that's a lot of money for my grandma, you know, and she was, you know, during the spring festival, you know how kids get red envelopes, right? Stuffed with money. But there's also a tradition in China where you give the elderly because now you're grown, you're making money and a lot of people feel like paying back.

So my parents gave my grandma like a red envelope filled with 5,000 RMB. And, you know, this feels pretty thick, right? And she was so happy. And my mom was saying to her, it's like, okay, so this year is 5,000 and next year it will be twice that amount. And my 97 year old grandma said, oh, so next year I get 10,000. And

And the year after, I get 20,000 RMB. And we all laughed because, you know, we thought she sometimes she's confused, but not when it comes to money. And if she knows that...

Seriously. And she slept holding that red envelope. She held it in her hand in her sleep. And sometimes... I'm not joking. And sometimes when she's awake, she doesn't have much to do. She's 97. She's, you know, on her wheelchair and in her bed. And we would catch her just, you know, licking her fingers and counting that money over and over again. So, you know...

Wow. Don't underestimate the power of a few hundred RMB for like elderly people. You know, it makes them really happy. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, you know, that's fascinating. That's really, we were kind of out of time. That's really fascinating. I learned a lot. Thank you so much for teaching us about how that works in China. And for the listeners, don't forget to file your taxes, whatever country you were in. You might be in for a pleasant surprise. Or not. Yeah. Or not. Yeah.

Or not. So, yeah, if you guys have anything you want to add or things you think, whatever you think we missed or you just want to be part of the conversation, please email us at welovethebridge at gmail.com. Thank you so much for your time, guys. Thank you so much for your time, baby. Well, thank you, Jason. Had a good time. We'll see you guys next time. Bye-bye. ♪♪♪