Eco-systems in deline: can we survive?
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Is the global ecosystem far worse off than most know? We give you some scary data points with just might frighten you. Welcome to The Bridge, enlightening conversations on world cultures, life, and everything in between. Hey everyone, this is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. Oh yeah.

Hey everyone, my name is Jason Smith. I'm originally from sunny California. Now I'm living in beautiful Beijing and today with me is Beibei. Hey Jason, so you're here to scare us? Oh yeah. Right at the start. Scary story. Speaking of beautiful Beijing, the magnolia tree like in front of me, my apartment, is coming into bloom. Oh that's amazing. And the funny thing about this tree is like it'll be all quiet

one day, like for the whole winter. And then you wake up, it's like blooming. It all happens like overnight. And you see it in the morning. It's like...

one position. Okay. All the flowers in one position. And you come back in the afternoon, like the flowers are all bigger. They've grown like literally just in hours. So yeah, spring is here. Yeah. And for people who have been waiting to visit Beijing here, the time has arrived. Hope you're booking your tickets and Beijing welcomes you. Can I just say something on this point before we get to the actual content is that

And this is important to me. Everyone always says when I look on like different websites or individual people that you must visit Beijing in the fall. And I disagree. I think Beijing in the spring is actually more beautiful than Beijing in the fall. So...

That's my personal opinion. Maybe they're talking about the ginkgo trees. Yeah, everything turns orange. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely golden. They do look very stunning. The spring is so beautiful. It's filled with flowers. Even the highways and the streets are lined with flowers in Beijing. It's so gorgeous. Yeah.

And especially like if you visit the Forbidden Palace area, like all this set against that maroon colored walls of the Forbidden City, it just has such a unique feel to it that you just don't get anywhere else. Yeah. Okay. Now back to scaring us, Jason. Well, this is also on the topic of biodiversity and nature. According to new research, biodiversity has lost 85%

of global wetlands, 50% of live coral and 32% of global forest area. Those are some of your scary statistics, baby. Tree planting is very common in China. I'm curious, have you been to tree planting? Yeah, like as elementary student, I remember every year our teacher would take us to somewhere like outdoors and we will like plant trees.

There is a tree planting day in the spring. I don't remember the specific day now, but it's in March. And on that day on television, like on Xinhua News, you will see leaders of the country, they go off to somewhere outdoors and actually plant trees themselves.

as a message to everybody in the country that we need to protect our environment and we're losing part of our nature. So let's replant. Yeah, I mean, it's a wake up call and also just a really nice gesture. So yeah, tree planting, there is actually a day for that here in China. Yeah, I remember seeing pictures of President Xi Jinping planting trees alongside children. And last year,

In the spring, I went to two different tree plantings. I went to one with a group here in Beijing and I went to one with another group in

in Fujian where they were invited a bunch of American students to meet Chinese students. And I was one of the guests there. I guess they think I'm a student. I'm 50, but whatever. Anyway, I got to help plant some trees, which was nice. You look young, Jason. No, I'm not quite 50. I'm 47. All the energy that you have. Yeah. So yeah, that's part of the deal. And it's not just a gesture. And I think people even outside China are probably starting to hear about reforestation here in China.

And it actually has been going on for decades. It's just before the Internet, before all these platforms that we use every day on our cell phones. Like I, as a Chinese, I didn't know about it until I started seeing videos of, you know, there are families who has devoted generations of its people to planting trees in the desert.

And they're not trees, actually. In some areas, they're just one particular type of grass, whatever that can grow in that area. And sometimes it's just like one particular plant, like nothing else survives. So there are families. And I remember with this one family, the grandpa planted trees even when he was like, what, like 100 or something? Wow.

He was literally like a hundred year old man. And he spent decades planting trees and his son and grandson took over. It's like that Chinese, in Chinese mythology, you have Yu Gong Yi Shan, right? The old man who removes the mountain. Tell me about it. You must have heard about it before. Like this old man in his 90s. And he decided one day that, you know what? I've lived...

behind this mountain for my whole life. I can't get out. Yeah, but I can't let my kids, my grandkids live the same thing. I'm just going to remove the mountain. And he started doing it and everybody laughed at him. Right. And he's very smart. A neighbor from another, I don't know, another family came over to laugh at him. Everybody did. But he said,

And he persisted. And he's like, I know I can't finish the project, but I have sons and my sons have sons and they can carry on the work. And one day you're going to create a path out of the mountains. I mean, it's kind of figurative, right? You fight for a better future for yourself and for your kids. And eventually his dedication touched the gods. And one day they woke up. Mountains are gone. Yeah.

Something like that. It's a very informal gist of the story. I wonder if I had a wheelbarrow and a shovel and I started just moving dirt off of the top of one of the mountains, if I would get in trouble with the Chinese police. Okay.

What are you doing, sir? I'm moving this mountain. I think maybe there'll be like psychologists coming to visit you. Just, you know, good wishes and stuff like that. Yeah. I read about this story. This is the mountain I want to move. I want to put it over there. But in real life, there have been people like that. And I think I'm going to make a comparison here. I mean, we talked a lot about what the Communist Party of China did.

has been doing, all the projects they have been doing. And in some ways, they carry on the spirit. I mean, think about all the grand mission impossibles that the Chinese government has carried out over the decades. I mean, on the

I think they all seemed impossible at the beginning, right? The Belt and Road Initiative over 10 years ago, and also building the railway from the heartland of China into Tibet because of the high altitude and also the freezing temperature. Like scientifically, it couldn't work.

And it didn't work for many years. And they kept trying. They kept, you know, looking for more scientific ways. And after literally decades, it's completed. You can take a train to go from other places in China to Tibet.

So these were projects impossible. And also we hear about reforestation, turning desert back into greenland. Are you kidding me? And also the move to new energy, you know, upgrading the industrial chain, things like that. These are huge projects that when people first hear of them, they're like, yeah, right. You know, that's impossible. It'll take decades. But

the Chinese Communist Party says, yes, we know it will take decades. So let's get started. And it's possible and it's good for the world. So I think they've done one project after another in the same spirit. And we're seeing the results, you know, from a lot of these. Oh, yeah.

Hey, everyone. This is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. You're listening to The Bridge. Well, I just want to talk about the global crisis here, which affects us all. This is from visualcapitalist.com. They're famous for putting out data points. They put out two or three new graphs every day. I love graphs. I like this graph. This is from February 7th.

And it has all the data I kind of already mentioned in it. But beneath it, on the page that it comes from, there's a lot of information. And it says, so for the wetlands, this is just from the year 1700 to now, to about the year 2000. So that's 300 years. We have depleted 85% of all global wetlands in the entire world.

Wow. That actually makes me worried. No, I mean, legitimately, actually, you know, I'm not going to be here in 2100, but I'm sure, you know, you have a daughter, her kids will be here. So like, they're going to have to deal with the world. Yeah. They're going to have to deal with the fact that the world is not the same and it may actually get a much worse. Apparently, in addition to all the data that's here, a

A lot of the agricultural land will be becoming infertile because of overuse of pesticides in the next 50 or 60 years. And so growing food is going to become...

a huge crisis in the next century. And so... Do you think we can train humans to eat plastic? I think that will solve a lot of problems. That's a great idea. Let's all start eating plastic now. Guys, your old toys. Oh, come on. So live... Seriously, if that can be done scientifically, like, the biggest problem is solved. Okay, anyhow...

New project for scientists. So live coral is also a huge problem. We've lost 50% of it from 1870 to 2019. The half, half of all coral in the world gone. And there are people who are actually working on trying to build new coral forests under the ocean. They have a variety of different techniques to do that, but it's not going to replace the, you know, just millions and millions of acres of missing coral. And so that's going to mess up our oceans.

And then we also have just all kinds of forest area has actually depleted, despite the fact that China is increasing its total forest coverage by the world is actually decreasing its total forest coverage. So we have 32% less global forest cover from pre-industrial. So that's like 1600 to 2019. Yeah.

So we are destroying our world at just incredible speeds. And, you know, I think everyone who's listening knows that the population of the world now is just like 10 times what the population of the world 100 years ago was. So we're really looking at probably accelerating these processes of destroying our world. I think we all should actually be legitimately scared. I think that is frightening.

Okay, first thing I want to talk about is about wetlands. Now, that is a term that I didn't really think about

until about two years ago, because I know that we've talked about this a couple of times in our show. And before that, that thing just like wetlands, like mosquitoes, like that was the first thing I would think of when you say wetland. But then I started learning about the importance of wetland. And I think just a few weeks ago when I went to my cousins, she lives like 20 minutes away from me

here in Beijing. And I noticed along the way that there's this huge fenced up area on the fence. It says, I forgot the name of it, but the term wetland caught my attention. It was like they are building a new wetland park about 15 minutes away from me. And I

Years ago, I wouldn't really have paid attention because I didn't think wetland was important or why would you be building more wetlands? Wouldn't there be more mosquitoes in the summer? Well, maybe there will be, but they're part of the ecosystem. And I realized last year that there's another wetland park.

already in existence, probably been there for years. I just didn't know about it. We were looking for a place to walk our daughter and walk our dog. So we were looking for parks and that turned up and we went, it's pretty nice. Most of the area is dry land,

But then there was like a lake and a lot of like plants and birds which were landing and playing in the area. So I think I just didn't pay attention. I know where you're talking about. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. But the sad thing... I've been to the park you're talking about. It's very nice. But the sad thing is they did not allow our dog to go inside. So he had to stay in the car. And I'm going to protest. Okay. Another item of protest. If I ever get to talk on the two sessions, one is about packaging things.

I've been reiterating that for years, you know, too much packaging, too much plastic. And the other thing is, you know, hey, why can't I take my dog to the wetland park or to on the high speed rail?

But anyhow, so wetland is becoming a term that I'm very familiar with now. And I see the initiative of the local government that must have come from the top, right? The direction pointing to recovering wetland, protecting wetland. And also when I, on our drive across the country, like, you know, doing spring festival, we went to other cities and I started noticing more wetland parks and

And these are huge areas. Maybe one reason is because I now know about wetlands and their importance. And also is we're always looking for a place to walk our dog. So they're popping up into our vision. But I'm surprised to see how many wetlands I've come across over the just the past two years. And they're still building them.

And we've actually alliterated why wetlands are important in our past shows. I mean, we can go over that if you think it's appropriate. I just want to ask, what about people with dog allergies on the train? On the train? Well, usually they will have like another carriage, like a separate carriage. I saw on the news that there is... So all the dog and cat people will have to be together. I think that the dogs are separate. Like the dogs are in cages in a different...

like one segment of the whole carriage. Oh, you mean the old slow trains? I think I've seen on the TV, on the news, that there is this one train, like from one destination to another, that you can carry pets on the train, but not where we wanted to go. But that's a start, right? I think more people are having this need to bring their pets.

pets along with them as they travel. So I'm being hopeful anyhow. And this is not to do with saving the world. But my wife and I, we decided to go to our, we rent a place in Beijing, but we have a place in Wuhan. And we decided this Chinese New Year,

to go stay in our home, our tiny little apartment in Wuhan. And we wanted our cats with us because we wanted to stay there for two weeks. So we actually packed all three cats in the back of the car and drove to Wuhan from Beijing. It took 12 hours to get there. Wow. One of them seemed psychologically scarred. He went meow the whole time for 12 hours. He never stopped. Oh.

Oh, goodness. He was probably a car sick or something. Maybe. I don't know. I think he was worried. He was like, what the heck is going on? Why am I in this cage? Because we caged them all in order to bring them. Yeah. Anyways. Oh, I see. Wetlands. Wetlands.

It's about biodiversity in itself, but it's more than that. They hold microbes in plants, insects, amphibians, reptiles, birds, fish, mammals. They're all part of a wetland ecosystem. But they also trap, and we've talked about this before, and you mentioned we could talk about it again, they are the best traps for carbon emissions.

carbon dioxide, which is being emitted by fossil fuel, coal, and all these other things. So if we want to keep that stuff in the earth, the best place in the world to keep it is wetlands. So the more wetlands that we disturb and drain out and turn into farmland, we're just adding enormous amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere, much more than like a coal burning plant. So in order, in preserving wetlands, we do a few things. We clean water.

which is really important. People need that. And animals need that. But we also trap CO2. So these are extremely important. China is actually adding wetlands to its national park system every single year. But we need all the country. It can't just be China doing this. It needs to be all the countries all over the world all deciding no more development in these special areas. We need to protect special areas.

for the future of, you know, the human species surviving. Yeah, I think back in the days, maybe people just didn't know. Like, I didn't know wetlands are important.

I mean, I just thought they were host to all kinds of bacteria or mosquitoes, which I think is true. But these are the base of the food chain, of the food web. And they help to feed other species like birds and bigger animals. And the whole chain will start, you know, start cycling. And also because of the shallow water,

It has high nutrients for birds and other smaller animals. And they call it there's the high primary productivity, like little things breed. It doesn't sound very great, but this is a necessary part of nature.

I mean, we try to get breeding little things. We try to get rid of them in our house. But in nature, they're part of our whole system. And also, besides the points you mentioned, they're also important for flood control or flood protection. It's an area that can hold a vast amount of water in case there are sudden rainstorms.

release of water from the sky, right? And also it helps with shoreline erosion control. And also they can be recreational for recreational purposes. People can go to these parks, maybe not in the heat of summer. I don't think that will be too comfortable. It's a great way to get mud on your shoes, I swear. Yeah, and get just eaten and carried away by mosquitoes. But I think they're much appreciated by all the birds and little insects.

So they are important. I was in Shizong, Tibet, and I was at one of the highest points without going into the mountains. And we were at this place called Lulong Valley. And it's a wetland. And the tour guide said, OK, everybody, we're going to walk around here for an hour. So I got out and started to walk around. And pretty soon I found myself up to my ankles in mud because it's wet. You know, it looks like grass on the top.

It just looks like grass on the top when you step on it. Yeah. I do not like walking in mud. You just immediately sink. And I think maybe in those areas, I would prefer just walking barefoot. So it doesn't feel like there's so much resistance. Like the ground wants to swallow my shoes. Yeah. But hey, maybe we

we can just leave the area alone, you know, most of the time. But we scientists, you know, can do their studies and tell us reasons why we should protect them. And also, on one hand, we feel pessimistic because of all the damage that we've already done. But on the other hand, I think the younger generation are smarter than us this way. I think they understand the science behind it, like the things we just mentioned, and a lot more. And it goes into their head and it goes to their heart.

And I think they will be smarter than us. I believe my daughter's generation will do better in this regard. Hey, everyone, this is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. You're listening to The Bridge.

Well, I think I want to add to what I said earlier in that this is what frustrates me. Okay. Firstly, the good news is that China adds as much new forest. This is not wetlands. This is new forest growth where there was not forest growth before. As much forest growth as the entire country of Belgium's size every single year. So that's good news. However...

The problem is that in order for us to protect our biodiversity and to add these kind of forests and stuff, it needs to, again, be consistent around the world. For example, when I was a kid during the 80s and 90s, all the way up to maybe 2000,

15 or so, the whole period of time, the United States was doing what China is starting to do now, what China has been doing for the last 20 years now. The United States was protecting national forests and setting up preserves and protecting wetlands, and it was setting up all these laws to protect these areas. And in the last 10 years or so, the United States has been undoing these laws and opening these areas up to development and to

drilling and defracking and all of these other processes to create wealth.

So in Brazil, for example, for many, many decades and centuries, Brazil protected a great deal of its forest growth because the world was basically like, hey, you need to keep this protected. It's vital for the world. You guys are the lungs of the earth and all this other stuff. And then in the last 10 years or so, Brazil is like, no, you know, we deserve to grow economically too. They have been slashing, burning parts of the rainforest to grow cattle.

My point is that while China is doing all of this good now, and the United States and Brazil were doing good before, it does not work unless all of us are consistently maintaining the preservation of the environment for not just a few decades, but for centuries. And so while China is doing great now, everyone needs to be doing great now. Well, you were talking about Brazil and...

And I knew you were saying about the forest and the great loss of natural habitat. Like my heart actually hurts, you know, just thinking about that. But I think the main problem may be that a lot of these companies, like the food growing companies or timber, what do you call it? Like logging companies? Yeah, timber, yes, yes. They're in the hands of private business people. And some of these are, probably most of them are American companies. So I think...

A lot of said maybe the government or the people of Brazil, they can't make that call. Maybe they have sold the companies or the companies have been taken over by other capitalists who are calling the shots. They don't feel bad about cutting down forest. They feel good about making more money, whatever the method.

And that's very sad, you know, for I'm sure for the people of Brazil and also for the rest of us. Hopefully it's not because, you know, Brazil wants to do it that way, you know, wants to grow the economy, paying the price of ecological damage. Sometimes it may be just that's the way their business has become. But anyhow, more optimistic McDonald's.

Yeah, we're saying about humans eating plastic, maybe we can find ways to do that. When I eat a lot of these industrially produced food, like certain kinds of burgers, sometimes they do taste a little bit like plastic. I feel like I'm just chewing really tasty plastic something. A lot of the burgers, like the meat inside, they don't feel like meat.

You know what I mean? I actually don't feel that way. I feel I have a different opinion. I think and I don't eat McDonald's anymore. I don't. I haven't. I've stopped many months and really kind of started years ago. But I love it.

I think it tastes amazing, but I don't eat it because it's really bad for the environment. I mean, it tastes good. It's tasty. And I don't think they're too good for our bodies either. But anyhow, back to Jason scaring us. Go on, please. Yeah, I want to scare you some more. This is from Sanctuary's

dot N O A A dot gov. And it says coral reefs support 25% of the life in the ocean. And this also says they need our help, which I don't know if is that helpful, but you know, that's interesting because they, if it's supported 25% of life in the ocean and half of them are missing, then there used to be a lot more life in the ocean. Think about that. So,

we're absolutely destroying the oceans. And another thing about oceans, and I mentioned this before, they hold CO2 in the form of biological life. So when we destroy that again, we're releasing more. Now here's an argument I hear that you may not have heard. I get this argument when I talk about CO2 reductions by China, when I go talk online, some people will say, Oh,

CO2 is part of our atmosphere, Jason. Trees need CO2. So when we're releasing more CO2, we're helping trees. So I just want to point out why this is a bad argument. Well, yeah. I mean, everything needs a balance, right? Yeah, exactly. It's about balance. We all need something. We even need poisonous elements.

But if they exceed a certain amount, we die from it. You can die from drinking too much water. Humans need lots of oxygen, but if you create a high oxygen environment, the air actually becomes flammable. So, I mean, there's all... If you have too much of anything... Right. You like cheese. Great. Eat cheese. That's fine. But now you eat three times as much cheese as you used to. It might be a problem. You know, like...

Yeah, you can tell him, go back and get another degree and come back and talk to me again. So yes, the trees do consume CO2. But now, sir and madam, whoever's making these arguments, we have too much CO2 and it's causing the planet to heat and the environment to change. So we do need to protect coral reefs for, you know, species diversity, scientific research, etc.

just keeping the oceans healthy and natural and normal and also preventing CO2 release, which will possibly destroy not all life on earth, but definitely us. I like us. Um,

I want us to continue. And if people have doubts about how this works, here's one paragraph that helps us to understand. So in this article, it says, each time we drive our car, charge our cell phone, we use energy. When we burn energy sources like gasoline and coal, they release carbon dioxide. And then carbon acts like a heat-trapping blanket in our atmosphere. And that keeps the heat from the sun close to our planet and...

and warms up the whole atmosphere and including the ocean. And actually, the ocean has been absorbing a lot of this heat, but there is a limit to how much it can take it before it gets sick. And I think maybe we are close to that borderline. So this warming is causing coral bleaching.

I think most people have heard of this by now. Like corals, they can be very colorful when they're healthy. But when they are stressed, when they are anxious, when they are worried about their own existence, then they start expelling this one type of algae called photosynthetic algae.

that they actually need to survive. And this is known as bleaching. And then these algae are what gives corals their bright colors. So when they expel these algae, they turn like white or they turn some other unnatural color because they are stressed like humans. You know, when we get stressed, we know we don't like that feeling and we feel sick. So a lot of the corals are

Poor thing. And most people probably don't know that that's happening to them. I didn't know. This is actually new information for me. There's another article by China Global Television Network dot com, cdtn.com. China's wetland area stays above 56.35 million hectares amid restoration efforts. And it mentions that China has added or restored one million hectares of wetlands. So what?

This is something I'm hoping like international bodies can get together and ensure that all member countries of those organizations can

can do similar things to what China is doing now. The concern, and I think this is a realistic concern, is a lot of the poor countries, the poorer countries, are thinking about or are already destroying their natural environments in order to create profit to help people's prosperity. And so we need to somehow, the developed countries, especially the global north, those are the United States, Europe, Japan,

Japan and maybe the G7 is a good example, Australia. They need to help facilitate better economic outcomes for poor countries so poor countries don't need to resort to destroying their environment. And this is really hard work. How do you do that? And I certainly don't have a solution, but that is the problem. When we say we need to help the corals through the wetlands,

I think sometimes the best thing we can do is just to leave them alone, right? Wetlands, leave them alone and they will slowly restore their own balance. It's just we're doing too much. You know, we want to build this and we want to generate, generate more and more and more wealth from everything we can think of. If we can just like leave them alone, you know, let them do their natural thing and they will be restored to their balance. And actually, I thought of another analogy that was made in

One of the articles we mentioned, it says wetlands can be thought of as biological supermarkets because they provide great volumes of food that attract many animal species. So these animals, they use wetlands for part of or all of their life cycles, starting from like dead plant leaves and stems. They break down in the water to form small particles of organic material, which feeds many aquatic insects.

shellfish and small fish that are food for larger predatory fish, reptiles, amphibians, birds and mammals. And then come us at the top of the pyramid. So that's how the biological cycle goes. So consider this, you know, fancy biological supermarket. I have a question. How do you feel about robots? Oh, speaking of which, huh?

How do I feel about robots? I think they will be very helpful. You know, guess what I was doing before this show? I was talking to Deep Seek, asking him how AI can help with biodiversity and how robots, what roles robots can play in environmental protection. Do you want to see what Deep Seek said? Sure, absolutely. Let's hear it. To my first question, it says AI can play a significant role in helping biodiversity,

by providing tools and solutions, right, to monitor, analyze, protect ecosystem and species. And to be more specific, they can help with monitoring and data collection

And especially in areas that humans don't want to get into, right? And also, I mean, robots, AI robots. And also in acoustic monitoring. So AI can process audio recordings to detect animal sounds, such as bird calls or frog croaks, and maybe even like animals from the ocean when they make sound. And then the AI can help with satellite imagery. Remember tracking of the elephants when they were on migration?

AI can analyze satellite data to monitor deforestation, habitat loss, and change in land use over time. And another thing that AI will be really good at is species identification. I think there are apps that help you to identify plants. When you see a flower, a plant that you've never seen before, you take a picture and it'll tell you what it is. Have you ever used that?

I have seen people use it in TV. Yeah, so these will be great AI-powered apps and tools to help scientists and just common people identify species. And also AI for predictive modeling. They can predict the impact of climate change and habitat destruction and invasive species on the ecosystem and biodiversity and tracking patterns of migration or population change. And they can help with conservation planning

identify critical habitats and prioritize conservation efforts by analyzing large datasets. And also they can help in fighting illegal activities such as logging, poaching, fishing by analyzing real-time data from sensors, drones, and satellite imagery, and also I guess cameras, right, even in the wilderness.

to monitor things like that. And also for restoration and rewilding, first time I hear that word, rewilding, AI can help by analyzing soil, climate, species data to determine the best strategies for rewilding or reintroducing species. And also when it comes to like the public science and engagement in protecting the environment.

by you can make videos, make photos, take photos. And I think, you know how much attention those elephants gathered over those few months on social media platforms? It's a great way, right, for people to feel more connected to nature, to realize that other species besides humans also need spaces to survive.

That they, you know, they love their babies and they want their babies to have nice places to live. And they're spiritual in a way, you know, just like us. So in this way, AI can also help to create content and other more fancy areas such as genetic diversity, like assess the health and diversity of populations and to prevent like inbreeding of animals or, you know, break genetic bottlenecks, things like that. Just there's so many ways that AI can help.

You're listening to The Bridge.

Well, I wasn't talking about AI, but I want to give you a different example of robots specifically, which robots and AI are actually not the same thing. Before I get to the robot example, there's this article from DailyGalaxy.com, and I've read this on multiple other sources as well. The Great Green Wall of China just achieved a mind-blowing transformation, and it talks about how China has built a ring around the Taklamakan Desert.

And I've actually been there. I was just there a few months ago, been to this ring. We've talked about it before, where they're planting a lot of different varieties of plants, including the swastika tree. But one of the things China is doing now, in addition to millions of workers and volunteers who helped transform the desert by building this giant ring around the desert to prevent it from growing and also to just ring it in and

Control it. Robots are now roaming the desert, automatically planting trees by themselves, independently in the Taklamakan Desert. Yes. There are robots roaming through the deserts and planting trees in China. It's a creepy image.

I think it's amazing. Okay, millions of workers, amazing. There's no challenge to what China has accomplished in its reforestation. It's hard work. What did you call it? Wilding, rewilding efforts? Rewilding. But I think it's also amazing if we can sit in our apartment and there can be robots just out there.

planting trees everywhere all over the place by themselves autonomously imagine the kind of world that we can create right i want to come home after eight hours of work robot can just do that 24 hours a day all it needs to do is go self-charge somewhere grab some more seeds and roll back out into the desert and keep planting let's get these everywhere they they

They can probably get charged just from the sun. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Then they just don't take a break. No human rights for you, robot. Oh, man. Hey, you know, I was just thinking how for let's say for a lone traveler who's been traveling in the desert, you know, testing the limit of human strength and tolerance. And then it comes across a robot planting trees in the middle of the desert. Nowhere. I think it will be a rather surreal experience. Maybe the two will start talking.

Maybe if the guy's lost or the woman is lost, she could just follow the trail of planted trees back to human civilization. Yeah, maybe. Or I don't know. Some kind of communication can be done between the robot and the human. But, you know, one impression of forwards that made an impression on me when it comes to this China's Great Green Wall project is that the wall is alive.

Because people think of the Great Wall, right? And you think of this stone wall. But this wall is alive. It's a vast forest belt. And it's planted to halt the encroachment of deserts, like the Taklamakan, and to mitigate the impacts of sandstorms. Have you

ever been through a sandstorm in Beijing? Oh, yeah. You've been here for, yeah, you've been here for long enough because I remember at least 13 years ago. I have not been through all of them. I just want to say my wife and I have been very lucky and more than one time, this is like at least three times, we just left right when the sandstorm hit.

And there's only usually one big one per year. So that's a lot of years where we didn't have to suffer. The worst one in 2023, we were in Sanya. There was one in 2023? Yeah, there was a huge one for like three days. We were watching it from, you know, like on Instagram and stuff. And we were in Sanya enjoying like, you know, coconut juice. Nice timing. The one time that I remember, that must have been about 15 years ago. And I was in the office at...

I had a good view. And then like, I don't know that day I lifted up my head and it was all orange outside. And yeah, they said, oh, that's the sandstorm. It must have been in the spring, like 15 years ago. I was just, wow, that can happen. And they were like, yeah, that's from Mongolia, all the sand blown over here.

But not ever since. Even if there are days that was like smoggy, it was different. That was, you could see things in the air. It was like something blown over covering our building. So yeah, happily there, I haven't seen one for quite a long time.

Maybe it's because of this alive wall. You used to work where I live now. And if you look west, there are all these mountains. I was talking to a gentleman named Michael Crook. I don't want to insult him if he listens to this. He's about 85. And his mother, Isabella Crook, is a famous historic figure in modern China, actually. So I was talking to him about those mountains. And he said when he was a little kid in Beijing, those mountains were barren.

They were completely barren. There was almost no life on them whatsoever. And the CPC, the Communist Party of China, was like, we're going to go out there and reforest that. And then he said 20 years later, it's green like it is today. And it's a completely forested area. When we think of reforestation in China, a lot of people think of the last 20 or 30 years. But China has been adding forest since the beginning of the

The PRC. So that's from 1949 forward. China has been adding forest and agriculture and all kinds of other means and technology for making those sandstorms that you're talking about slowly less and less severe.

Yeah, you know, it takes decades for us to realize that, you know, the Communist Party of China means it when it wants to, you know, do good. When it takes on these kind of projects, that sounds too grand to be true. You know, there's so much obstacles and they're so pricey, right? Like the high-speed rail, right?

I guess a lot of people didn't think it was going to be worth it, right? The cost is astronomical and they were probably still paying the initial cost. And it's a project that most countries would just kill right off. But not...

the Chinese government. It knows its purpose. I think at the beginning, it knows that it's going to take decades. It's not in a hurry as in like we're going to rush all this and break down halfway. They're steady and they have a goal and they're going that direction. And eventually they'll get that done, just like the old man I mentioned, you know, at the beginning of the show. Yeah.

The silly old man. You say the silly old man is a metaphor for the Communist Party of China because they have a giant vision that no one believes in, but in the end they accomplish it. I can see the similarity between the two. Yeah, it's just my personal thinking. There's an article here from newsbreak.com. The article is entitled, UM Research Reforestation Needs in the West

to double by 2050 by Moose Track Megan. I guess that's her name. I'm confused. Sorry, Moose Track Megan. February 10th, 2025. And I think this is really fascinating because this is kind of what I've been saying since the beginning of the show.

China is doing great. And there are actually some countries in Africa with UN help that are doing great too, because you have the Great Green Wall of China, but there's actually another Great Green Wall also called the Great Green Wall, which is across three or four countries in West Africa, where they're trying to stop the desert from growing. And in some areas of that Great Green Wall, they've actually stopped growing.

they've done several things. They've trapped water. They've grown more food for locals and they've actually stopped the desert from growing. Unfortunately, it didn't work in every part. And so the desert is still growing in some areas, but basically they,

All of us everywhere, we need to start thinking, where can we plant trees that there are currently not trees and reforest? Now, some people will say, and rightly so, we should not be destroying deserts. Deserts are a critical part of our global ecosystem. And this is true. But we can also think about deserts that didn't used to be there. For example, the desert that is in the Taklamakan, stretching from the Taklamakan to the Euphrates River in Iraq,

The entire desert strip there wasn't there 2,000 years ago. That was all forested area. And because of human activity, we have caused thousands of miles of deserts to come into existence. So from Western China to Iraq, all of that current desert that is there, we have an almost...

duty to reforest that entire area, which could take generations and generations, like your old man. I remember another couple who started planting trees in the desert after they retired. They could have just moved on, like go live in the city where their kids are and enjoy their retirement life. But they decided to stay in the middle of the desert. Yeah.

where they've lived for decades. Every day, they get on their little mobile bike, like a motorcycle, and they take their buckets of water and shovels and they go plant trees in the desert. And the reason why they do it is because the man said that when I was little, this was all green area. So in his 60 years, or maybe he's older than that now, he saw...

the deforestation of the whole area. Like it wasn't desert before, as you mentioned. It became like this and he felt personally responsible.

And he felt like people like us, we don't do anything. This is what our kids will live with, what our grandkids will live with. And it just doesn't feel right because we destroyed it. And now, you know, they didn't have anything. You go to their shed, it's like nothing else, just buckets and the essentials. But they seem so happy and motivated because they made a difference. Over the decades, they actually turned that area green. Do you know how

proud you would feel if you accomplish something like that in your lifetime. You know, people feel proud about all the riches they create, all the wealth they have gathered over the decades. But if at the end of your life, you can say that, you know what, I replanted a desert, even if it's a small one, how fulfilled you would feel. You will not feel sad about having lived this life and not accomplished anything. So I

That's a real story. And another one that I came across was this... There are two guys from one village. They're all single. And they're in their 60s, I think, by the time I heard of the story. So one man was blind and the other did not have arms but could see. So these two partnered. And they saw how the area they lived in became ecologically damaged over the decades. How the trees were being cut down. So...

I mean, these were poor villagers. They did not have anything besides the essentials, but they just set their mind on planting trees. And what was so touching, I cried when I watched that video. Like the guy who did not have arms but could see would find the spot, a good spot for planting a sapling. And the guy who couldn't see but had arms would just follow his direction. It is a real story. I can find the video and send it to you. I will...

I was really touched. So the guy with arms but couldn't see would plant the tree. And the two, you know, it's not easy work. Sometimes they hit the hammer wrong and they would land on the other's hand. Other times they stumble. But I think before that, they were farmers. So they're like, you know, this is our free time. This is what we decided to do. And they planted together thousands of trees. Thousands. That's crazy. I know. I literally, I was crying.

hard. Like when I was watching this, I remember. Here's Bebe. She's got eyes and arms and she's just in her apartment. I'm just sitting in my apartment. Oh, hey, at least I don't fly around. Oh, like Jason. I'm,

Maybe I'll learn to eat plastic. But anyhow, I remember the scene when the guy who could see was helping the other guy to cross the stream to get to the area where they were planting trees, just one after another. And they were telling, maybe it was the journalist, whoever was filming the video, how the first batch of saplings all died. Maybe like one survived, something like that. But they learned from their lessons. It's like my houseplants. Yeah.

Poor Jason. At least you're good at raising cats. Yeah. You know, stories like that, they are real, real people doing this work. And that's why projects like this Mission Impossible can go on and we can see the results decades later. Oh, I'm so moved. Well, those are certainly harrowing stories, really harrowing stories. Yeah.

I want to soil harrowing stories with some more frightening data. Go ahead, Jason. This is from the Global Assessment Report on Biodiversity and Ecosystems of the Intergovernmental Science Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystems by Boston Consulting Group. I know that's quite a mouthful. So these are the actual five main reasons that we have biodiversity loss and destruction of the environment. And I thought it would be interesting to go through them in order. Number one,

It's land use and sea use change. So that means, you know, building apartments, farm farming, all that kind of stuff. So building roads, basic normal human activity to build a town, city, et cetera, grow food. That's the number one reason we destroy the environment. Number two is actually direct over exploitation. So that means like logging over fishing. So when we're talking about just burning the rainforest down to grow cheeseburgers, right?

Like, actually, that's number two. That's only the second. I mean, the number one is just human activity. Building a city. Oh, there used to not be a city here. Now there's a city. That's number one. Number two is actually the direct exploitation for, you know, capitalism and stuff. Number three is actually climate change. So all of the other stuff that we're doing inadvertently is just destroying the environment. So...

Your plastic bags and your CO2. And number four is chemicals as the result of human activity. So that means like factories and stuff like that. Contamination. Noise and light pollution. Yeah. And number five is finally, and this is actually almost natural, but I think a lot of it's because of us too. And that is the spread of invasive species. So that means like

For example, you may not know this. Us, we are the invasive species. Oh, I was talking about other non-human invasive species. So let me be more specific. So let me give you an example. New Zealand did not used to have mice. And now because of humans going there.

starting with Captain Cook on, we brought mice to New Zealand and now mice are actually destroying habitats in New Zealand. And actually they have to round up and kill mice in New Zealand all the time. It

It happens every week, month, and year in New Zealand. They're constantly on the hunt to destroy mice before they destroy New Zealand. Okay. So can we say there are more mice than sheep in New Zealand? I don't know. It's probably true. This is also a big problem for rabbits in Australia. Rabbits didn't used to be there. They're much better at eating...

the local fauna than kangaroos and koalas, and that rabbits are destroying Australia. I remember the first time I went to France, my uncle was there getting his PhD. And so I landed in the airport. And one of the first things my uncle told me, he kind of waved his hand to the green grass, like in the airport. And he said, there are 2 million rabbits in there. It's really random.

That's why I remember it, because it was so random. Because I was like, oh, how beautiful. You know, there was a lot of green grass. It was like 30 years ago or something like that. And then he just said there are two million rabbits hidden in there. I was like, wow, impressive. Yeah. They're really good at reproducing themselves. So this is why, you know, I actually had someone get upset. It was an American. I don't remember. She was banned from traveling out of the United States for a couple of years because she one time landed in the United States coming from Germany.

with a sausage wrapped in a piece of plastic. And when they found the sausage among her things, they were like, how dare you? Like, I don't really understand what the... Oh, you're not supposed to bring like meat products. From one country to another, there's all kinds of like unsealed foods and things you cannot bring. And so you can get in a lot of trouble when you bring like a seed. For example, you're like, oh, the seeds in China took

to grow Mandarin oranges are so amazing. I'm going to bring these back home and plant them in my garden in America. You can actually go to jail for that. Yeah.

Yeah. You'd be like in the airport custody for like two months. I just wanted oranges. But yeah, they can actually be invasive species and destroy ecosystems. That's why they don't allow regular non-scientists to move biological life other than humans and our pets. If you heard Jason right, don't bring rats with you when you travel to other countries or rabbits. Especially New Zealand. If you bring your mice with you, they're going to be upset. Yeah.

Although the damage has already been done, but they don't want it to get worse. Yeah. So message received. Thank you, Jason. That is all the time we have. Thank you so much for your time. If you guys want to tell us why everything we said was wrong or everything we said was right, you want to praise us, you want to just join the show and have your voice added or voice your concern about the environment or any other issue, please email us at welovethebridge at gmail.com. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah. Yeah. And Jason will be happy to argue with you. Thank you.

Thank you, guys. Thank you, Jason. Thank you.