Hour 1 - Sen. Ron Johnson on Why He Flipped
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Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show podcast. Welcome in July 4th edition of Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, July 4th week edition.

I am down on the Gulf of America for what should be one heck of a celebratory experience surrounding the very first 4th of July on the Gulf of America. And all weekend long, it just felt to me like...

Everything continued to break in Donald Trump's direction, and we are living in a pretty phenomenal timeline right now. Updating you on the big stories over the weekend.

the big beautiful bill nearing its passage in the United States Senate. We will talk with Senator Ron Johnson, who was one of the last to flip and support this big news in terms of the 2026 elections. One of the two individuals who voted against this bill effectively, Senator Rand Paul, one of the others, but

Tom Tillis, who is going to face a very difficult race in the United States Senate in North Carolina, Republican senator there, is not going to run for re-election, so there will be a big primary probably, although I would imagine whoever Trump endorses, and there's some talk that Laura Trump, his daughter-in-law,

who was involved with the RNC, might decide to step forward in that race, which will be a big battleground and one of the top targets. Regardless, even if Tom Tillis was going to run, North Carolina, battleground state, Democrats are going to feel like they have a chance to win that Senate seat and try to make a run at the 53-47 margin.

that Republicans have right now. So that is big news. The Mamdani fallout in New York City continues to build. But I would say overall, even CNN, I saw, had a Michael Smirconish big discussion about how Trump is winning on levels that we have not seen before. As we are speaking to all of you on Monday, stock market to another all-time high. Buck, these are winning times, and I got to be honest, it feels pretty good.

Clay, there's one thing I think we left out of the winning parade there that I want to throw for everybody. Well, there's a few things we could talk about, but one important one, because I know you're somebody who follows us very closely.

And let's just say your trip to the Gulf of America, more economical than it would have been a couple of years ago. Gas prices, my friend. Remember the first 30 days of the Trump administration? Why hasn't he brought prices down? Look at how expensive eggs are. Trump is lying. Remember all that? Yeah. Here we have. And that's how they sound, by the way.

That's how all the guys reporting on it sound. It's actually a perfect representation of their voice. Here is, on Good Morning America, reporter Gio Benitez on gas prices. Play it. There is some good news, and that's good news because most people traveling right now are traveling by road. Gas prices, $3.18 a gallon right now. That's the national average for regular unleaded. Last year, that was $3.49 a gallon, so significantly lower. So some good news if you're...

hitting the road. Clay, it's the lowest that it has been in quite some time, actually. The gas price. Isn't it fascinating? Donald Trump comes into office and gas prices drop down quite a bit. Lowest, I'm sorry, the lowest since, I wanted to make sure, 2021.

lowest gas price in four years, everybody. I think that's just a marker here because, you know, if the gas price was the highest it had been in four years, Clay, it would be the number one story going into Independence Day weekend.

No doubt. It's actually the four-year low for summer because inevitably somebody's going to come out there and they're going to be like, well, actually, they were low. Yes, gas prices, everybody knows. I said for Independence Day weekend, the lowest years. For summer, four years. And a lot of you will remember down 2022,

summer was the absolute apex of Biden inflation and gas prices were out of control in the summer of 2022. I noticed this in a big way because I just drove.

I just drove from Nashville down to the lovely Gulf of America here. And along the way, I take note of what the price of gas looks like. And you mentioned that clip, which includes the crazy prices that people have to pay for gas in states like California, where they are taxing you like crazy on gas.

Everywhere I drove, Tennessee, Alabama, and Florida...

All the gas prices unleaded are under $3 a gallon, sometimes as low as like $2.60, $2.50, even with the summer hike that always happens because so many of you are going to be on the road. So, yes, you're 100% right. They tried to make egg prices a big story. Egg prices are lower than when Trump came into office now, and people are recognizing. And by the way, the reason that egg prices went up so much was because the Biden team decided to kill Trump

over the bird flu fears. So many different of the animals out there that are laying eggs. They killed a lot of chickens. They killed a lot of chickens. And now the gas prices are down. We talked about this a little bit, but maybe we can get the clip from Trump's press conference on Friday where he was directly asked about this as one so-called expert economist is now saying, actually the impact of

of the tariffs on overall inflation seems to not have emerged. They keep saying, Oh, you're going to see this in a month or you're going to see this in two months. And we're sitting here. When was liberation day? So-called early April. If I remember, we have not seen any increase in prices by and large associated with the tariffs. And now people are starting to say, wait a minute, this is going to be a 400 or $500 billion, uh,

net proceeds to the government and the overall prices are not increasing to your point the average price that people are paying for groceries the average price eggs specifically gas all of it is down compared to in the biden era and we have to also remember that while there's no inflation from the tariffs according to secretary of the treasury besant

We also have very high rates right now. And the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, they're starting to say out loud in the Trump administration, time for a successor to Powell. If you start to get a substantial drop in rates, that'll add some rocket fuel to the economy, which will also help. But so we're already at all-time high in the stock market. Your 401ks are...

are absolutely cruising your pension plans. Because remember, the pension plan that you have, that also requires a return in the market based on the capital pool. So if you've got retirement anything, the market being really high is what you want to see.

And and so we're looking at the possibility of, I think, an even stronger economy going forward. You know, Canada said it was going to have a digital services tax on tech firms in the U.S. Getting a little a little frisky with us over the trade negotiations. Trump said, you know what? No more negotiations with you guys.

and you're going to get hit with some big-time tariffs. Guess what, Clay? Their tough talk from Canada on the digital tax lasted about 72 hours, and now here they are backing off of that one saying, you know what, we should talk, we should talk.

On the tariff thing specifically, I just want to add, it's one thing when everyone who hates Trump opposes something because they'll oppose anything, right? Trump can say, hey guys, I want to put $100 billion toward curing all forms of terminal cancer. And there'll be lunatic Democrats who are like, they won't really spend the money on this. It's all going to go to Trump's family member. They'll find some way to hate whatever it is he says. On tariffs, there was a lot of...

dare I say, the conservative orthodoxy on this was opposed to Trump. You know, the old school National Review, oh, what about Milton Friedman and William F. Buckley, etc. They were opposed to him on this, and it turns out...

It looks like Trump was right, even in the face of a lot of people on his own team who are rooting for him, saying that this was going to cause problems. Yeah, and here's a cut from the Friday news conference proving that there is starting to be a reassessment. And...

I would say in general that in the wake of COVID, and I think you're probably the same as me, Buck, my willingness to blindly accept expert opinion is basically at zero because they're wrong on so many things that they're supposed to be experts on. Um,

And here is that question. As one of the top economists has now said, looking at the data, hey, and I give him credit for being willing to acknowledge, hey, maybe I was wrong. There has not been any inflationary price pressure based on the tariffs. And here is that question from Friday's news conference with Trump. Cut 25, I believe. Let's play it.

Mr. President, a leading global economist just did a 180 and says your tariff plan, you may have outsmarted everybody with it. What is your message? I love this. I love this question. This is the favorite. This is the best question I've ever been asked because I've been going through abuse for years on this. Because as you know, we're taking in hundreds of billions of dollars, no inflation.

And he continued there. But I mean, this is the reality when you look at what the data has shown so far. It is that and it makes some sense that price competition is so intense in the United States that many of these businesses don't have the capability to raise prices right now.

And frankly, as many of you know, they used the Biden era inflation as an opportunity to massively raise prices because everything was going up and they also shrunk the amount of product that you're often getting in the prices in the process. Go look. And right now, because the economy is rolling and

And there is massive price pressure, in fact, contraction in many different things that you buy. They have not been able to actually do what everybody told you they would do, which is raise prices on a substantial level to make the consumer cover the inflation costs. So far, that is nonexistent.

if you're Trump, would you listen to any of these so-called experts ever again who are all shouting at you that their econ models show that he's wrong? You know, really, like, you know, if I'm Trump, I'm

I'm just going to say, you guys shut up. I'm doing what I'm doing for the next few years. You know, Trump's going to be 80 years old soon. He's been to the mountaintop. He knows what's going on here. He does not need the chirping in his ears from the economists, economists in quotes. What does it even mean? It's like when people refer to consensus opinion on anything without actually telling you who the consensus is. So I think Trump is once. Remember, we talked about this on China.

and how everybody said he's going to start a trade war with China, and then he was so successful actually with China that Biden didn't even mess with the China stuff that he did. Because everyone realized he was right. This looks like another one of those moments, which is a big win for Trump. That's why he was strutting his stuff in that soundbite you played, because he knows. No doubt. And also, I mean, I think it speaks to the fear of challenging conventional wisdom in the so-called expert class. Nobody wants to step outside and be noticed, right?

by doing something outside of the herd. It's human nature in many respects, but what you see is a herd of opinion and it can't be the case that everyone uniformly agrees on a dynamic situation that is very difficult to predict, but being wrong, the fear of being wrong is actually more prevalent in most of these people than the risk of being right.

You know, you're also getting, we're all getting a real vision here, a real view of what does leadership look like when you're the leader of the free world, which is what the president is.

What does leadership look like? It's deciding that you're going to hit the Iranian bunkers, even though people are shrieking about how it's going to cause World War III and being right. It didn't cause World War III. It set back the Iranian program. It backed up our Israeli allies. It means starting tariff negotiations despite the so-called consensus of economists out there shouting about how it's going to cause inflation and price rises and everything else.

This is real decision-making with real consequence where Trump has been right. He has been correct. And I just don't think he gets enough credit. Everyone realizes, Clay, he's a political and cultural phenomenon, but he is making calls against what the so-called experts and certainly what the general momentum on these issues has been, and he's already showing huge results. So I think that...

Going into this weekend, we all have to remember that this is not easy stuff he's doing, and we're all benefiting from it, and we need to keep encouraging this sort of leadership and supporting this kind of leadership, including with the big, beautiful bill, which we're going to get to here in just a second with Senator Ron Johnson.

And I was at the range this weekend. Clay, I'm now also a range safety officer certified. So really, I take you, Laura, the boys down. I mean, I'm trained. I'm insured. I'm all those things coming up this fall. So it's going to be good times. But I was talking to the guys out there, so many different law enforcement officers who are there as well because they want to be able to either for training purposes themselves with their team or on their own. They want to be an RSO, range safety officer. And one thing we talked about was nonlethals.

Do you know what the favorite, by far, pepper spray brand of the officers I talk to is? Because a lot of them carry the pepper spray. Sabre.

So if these guys who have to rely on this day in and day out trust Sabre more than anything else, you should trust Sabre, too. It is the number one pepper spray brand trusted by law enforcement, and I've got people telling me exactly that face-to-face. S-A-B-R-E is how you spell it. They're pepper gel projectile launchers shaped like a pistol or a rifle. Depending on the model, fires off a pepper gel projectile. Targeted, goes a longer distance than you'd think. It's very effective at stopping an intruder.

Sabre spelled S-A-B-R-E. Their website is Sabre Radio, S-A-B-R-E, sabreradio.com. This is not about getting away from 2A or guns. This is about additional options, non-lethal force escalation, just like cops have. You can have this, too. I've got a lot of guns.

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You know, when there's a fight to be had, when it's put on the brass knuckles time, so to speak, in politics, we tell you when we're angry about something. But it's also important to take stock of your wins.

because that encourages what's going on. It inspires further action in those directions. And so that's why we're not looking at this with rose-colored glasses. We're just taking a moment as we're going into this Independence Day weekend. Think of where we are now compared to a year ago, Clay. Maybe that's the best way to do it.

A year ago, it was, oh, they're going to lock Trump. Well, actually, Biden's debate had happened. So we were feeling like pretty good a year ago, but there were still criminal trials about Trump and maybe somehow they're going to be able to win. And we got Biden, the dementia patient, pretending to run the country and look at where things are.

Now, also on the tariffs, the thing that the experts said that Trump was the most off base on in terms of the economy this year, this is cut 20 CNBC. No great friend of Trump's play it. Look how much we've been collecting in revenues. And I did this in part because Wilfred's here and he can talk about the UK trade deal. But just this is the monthly numbers here.

And they have gone up a lot. June is actually set for another big increase of $27 billion. That is money coming into U.S. coffers from tariffs. We are collecting a lot of revenue. So far, guys, $121 billion has flowed into the U.S. government since the start of the fiscal year. It's still a tiny portion of the overall revenues that the U.S. government gets, but it's increasingly a lot, especially we haven't seen it in terms of the consumer paying off higher inflation.

120 billion dollars is actually a lot of money. It's a lot of money coming in that wouldn't have otherwise. Yeah. And look, I mean, we're talking about on pace to be around 400 billion dollars in tariffs. And it may grow beyond that, depending on how, you know, the purchase process of of of American commerce goes.

And that's a huge part of the overall budget to think about that didn't exist before and may go a long way towards helping to balance the budget. Look, we'll talk about this with Ron Johnson here in a moment, who has been involved in the intricacies of the big, beautiful bill. As you all know, he's up next. We'll see what he thinks about all this. In the meantime.

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Senator Ron Johnson, I imagine a lot of people are heading to the lakes up north in Wisconsin for this time of year when it is spectacular, but you are working, Senator, and we had you in studio a couple of weeks ago breaking down the big, beautiful bill, and you changed your vote at

the last minute or signed on with the bill at the last minute um what is the latest what can you tell us about where we are compared to when we talked about talked with you on air last okay yeah i should be trolling for walleye right now but we're here working on the big beautiful bill um and as far as the primary components of this bill i'm fully supportive of right we're gonna we're

Make sure that we don't have a massive automatic tax increase. That's about $4 trillion in the score, by the way. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants to default on our debt. Unfortunately, Democrats left these enormous messes. The open border, so we have to provide funding for borders. The wars, we have to provide funding for the defense. Massive. Four-year average deficit of $1.9 trillion. The seven years before the pandemic, our deficit averaged $660 billion.

Four years afterwards, under Biden and Democrats, $1.9 trillion. So, again, it is true the House provided us with the spending reduction, historic spending reduction, about $1.4 trillion. The Senate actually has about $1.6. Our difference in our scores is we make sure the business expensing provisions are permanent versus short-term. So that's the main difference between the House and the Senate. Now, we're hearing from the House they're not real happy.

And we're short from their math, somewhere around $600 billion. Rick Scott has an excellent amendment, which was not included in the base bill. And that was really the sticking point on the motion proceed. We got the commitment of the leadership to not only offer an amendment vote, but whip it and try and make sure this thing gets passed. I'm hoping President Trump helps us get this thing passed because that, depending on the date. So here's what the amendment does.

It doesn't kick anybody off of Medicaid. What it does is it stops enrollment into the Obamacare addition to Medicaid, which threatens traditional Medicaid for disabled children, for example. So at some point in time in the future, we're debating that. You just don't allow states to enroll them under the $9 to $1 match.

I mean, I think you guys realize that, right? For a disabled child, for every dollar the state puts into Medicaid, the federal government matches it for $1.33.

But for the Obamacare single, working age, able-bodied, childless adults, for every dollar the state puts in, federal government kicks in nine. That was a huge incentive for states to gain the system, provider taxes, provider fees, which aren't health care, by the way, but they get reimbursed $9 for every dollar the state kicks in there. So again, it's a financing scam. We're

we're trying to end that because it's causing the outflow of hundreds of billions of dollars out of the federal government we don't have the money so that alone could fill about 500 billion dollars of that gap if we give states until the first part of 2029 and the scam i mean very reasonable proposal

So most Republicans support in the Senate. We've got some holdouts, and that's where we need leadership to pressure people. There are other things in the bill, some extraneous tax credits. When we're $37 trillion in debt, do we really have to add tax credits for this, that, and the other thing? So, again, I think this is entirely doable. It's going to take the president to weigh in. It's going to take Republican leadership to make sure that we can satisfy the House requirements

And then when all said and done, this would be a huge achievement, repealing at least the most damaging part of Obamacare, which was the addition to Medicaid, which puts at risk the Medicaid for disabled children. Do you think it's fair that for a disabled child, the federal government kicks in $1.33, but for a working-age person that should be working, getting health care from their employer, we provide $9 for everyone? It's just out of whack.

Senator Johnson, people are reading about, I think many of them, if not for the first time, it's certainly a helpful reminder.

About the Senate parliamentarian, Elizabeth McDonough, who has been in this role since 2012. This is not an elected office. This is a it's pretty fascinating, actually. Right. The the this started some time around what the 1920s, 1930s. So it's about 100 years ago. There's somebody who helps with administrative procedures, rules within the Senate. I guess like when you guys are allowed to have bathroom breaks or I don't know, whatever it is.

And now there's somebody who is stripping out parts of the bill like the NFA, National Firearms Act, and silencers no longer being an NFA item because the parliamentarian. What is going on here? And by the way, talk to me about that NFA silencers or suppressors issue. Well, I believe that was included.

So this is incredibly complex. I mean, this all has to do with the Budget Act sets up this reconciliation process where we can reduce mandatory spending or cut taxes or increase taxes with a simple majority vote. Because of that process, Senator Robert Byrd had rules in terms of what would qualify for that.

what wouldn't qualify from my standpoint the parliamentarian has been pretty even-handed when democrats wanted to include things or more policy than budget she didn't allow it she's done the same thing here we by the way we've modified things that she was going to kick out we listened to her instructions we got it back in so i realized that ends up being kind of a bone of contention what we don't want to do is eliminate the filibuster i know a lot of people want us to but

The filibuster has protected us from all kinds of massive Democrat spending programs because in the minority, Republicans had the right to block some of that stuff. So, I mean, I realize at the moment it's like get rid of that so we can get everything we want. That would be pretty short-sighted thinking. But again, we've got a way to do this. You know, Rich Scott knows health care like crazy.

Nobody else. OK, brilliant proposal. Doesn't kick anybody off. Medicaid just ends the Medicaid scam a few years in the future. Gives states, gives providers a chance to readjust how they're budgeting. Basically, states and providers are basing their budget off of this financing scam. That has to end. We simply can't afford it.

Where do we stand now? I know that Chuck Schumer made the entire bill be read aloud in the Senate chamber, and that took a long time. There's talk that Trump wants to get this thing signed on July 4th. You're in the Senate right now. What does the time frame look like for everybody out there, and where do we go from here?

Well, we're in the voter-rama, so it's unlimited amendments, so I can't predict how long it'll go. Again, we're in very close conversation with conservatives in the House. They're telling us this product right now is dead on arrival. I actually take them seriously. We kind of ignored their formula, their math. They looked at this differently than we did. We're, I think, about $650 billion short.

Now, from my standpoint, I'm fine with satisfying their requirement. Again, use Rick Scott's amendments and enrollment for new Obamacare $9 to one match. Those guys can go under standard Medicaid, get reimbursed, same things as a disabled child. Okay, do that. Start of 2029, that saves us about $500 billion. Get rid of some of these extraneous measures, some of these new tax credits that just

Some Republican senator thought, oh, this is an important thing. We're $37 trillion in debt. This is not a time for additional tax credits, for jumping up our tax code further. So I would have no problem taking a look at this and saying, okay, no, we can reduce the deficit by $650 billion. Not a problem. Again, politically, you've got constituencies, you've got people that apparently like to spend money, like to offer new tax credits, refuse to do what they promised to do.

You know, repeal Obamacare, rip it out by the root and branch. This is just one root that is probably the most damaging aspect of Obamacare. And we've got Republicans now that aren't willing to do it. This is where we need presidential leadership to say, honor your promise, get that additional deficit relief, get this passed in the Senate, get this passed in the House, and then we really will end up with one big, beautiful bill. Outstanding stuff, Senator Ron Johnson. We appreciate all the work you're doing and keep us updated. You can hop on any time.

Have a great day. You too.

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Something great for your Independence Day weekend. You're like, how do I celebrate, Buck? Well, I got an idea. Barbecue. American flag. Love your country. Enjoy it with friends and family and do all that great stuff. Fireworks. For those of you who are so inclined, watch them. Be careful around them. Don't listen to Clay on this one, okay? We all know Clay.

is probably a guy who played with M-80s himself growing up. I was not a huge firework guy, but rednecks are like everybody in the state of Tennessee shoots fireworks constantly.

I'm sure you've seen a lot more than I have. That much I can tell you. New York City, there's no random fireworks on the street or the NYPD is going to be drawn down on people. That just doesn't really happen. So, yes, I'm just saying, celebrate, celebrate. Have a great Independence Day weekend coming up here. But also, Crockett Coffee, 30% off site-wide. 30% off. We want you to try America's Best Coffee. We want you to be drinking delicious cups of Freedom Coffee.

a.k.a. Crockett Coffee, and some fun stuff to throw in the mix. They've got great mugs, hats. The Crockett hat, fantastic. Big fan. Some people are saying the best hats.

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What percentage, it's a good question, what percentage of people do you think buy coffee from communists, basically? Like 90%. It's a very lazy thing. A lot of communist coffee drink. A lot of Mom Donnie coffee out there. A lot of drinking the Mom Donnie stuff. Oh, if we just take more from the rich and give to the poor, it'll be like Robin Hood. No, that is not how it works.

Drink capitalist coffee that loves America and freedom. I was watching the Mom Donnie video. Go to Crockett Coffee.com. We're going to get into it. We're going to get into it. Next up. I mean, I, Buck, it's rare that I watch videos and I think I can't believe this is a real argument. I am really disappointed in New York City voters over this. And we should dive into some of the things that are out there that he has said.

We're not talking like we've talked about this before. You can disagree on a lot of issues with a lot of people and still be of the opinion. Hey, this could be a reasonable take. We talked about this in the context of the way that the Supreme Court felt like. But Mondani is a bottom line. He's insane. I mean, this is what this guy is, is a total disaster waiting to happen for the city of New York. And he makes arguments that are inexcusable and.

and very destructive if they actually come to fruition. So that much is for sure. We're going to get there. Do you think?

And the Kataji Brown Jackson to me kind of ties in with Mom Donnie because the decisions when you saw come out on Friday, it was as if the rest of the Supreme Court was just done with pretending that her arguments were being made in any kind of rational or good faith basis. She's an activist who lacks the understanding and the wisdom to be a Supreme Court justice functioning even as a judge.

partisan Democrat. I mean, she doesn't even cover it up well enough. She's an activist. It's the MSNBC comment section sitting on the Supreme Court. It's a shame, but that's what it is. It doesn't even really pretend anymore. I want to get a couple of these calls. We're going to do Mom Donnie in a second. All the best, Mom Donnie. Or the worst, Mom Donnie, I should say. Jeff in Nebraska wants to weigh in. What's up, Jeff? Going once. He straight up dodged that NFA question. Oh, you think Johnson dodged the question? Senator Johnson?

He absolutely dodged it. Now, listen, this parliamentarian person is an unelected person. She was appointed by Harry Reid, one of the most vicious partisans to ever sit in the Senate. Oh, I know. John Thune can tell her what to do and John Thune can fire her, but he won't. And this is a guy who received the second least amount of votes as any sitting senator to get his position, second only to Lisa Murkowski. Yet he can hold up the entire country on anything he wants.

I look, I don't like this parliamentarian nonsense in this, in this situation at all. That's why I asked the Senator about it. I also don't like that the NFA for silencer for suppressors, silence, people call them silencers too, just to be clear. Don't, don't send me their suppressors. I own, I own some, so I don't need to hear it. The,

The suppressor's issue in the National Firearms Act, they should be taken out. They're not murder devices or whatever people think from the movies. It just means your ears are better protected when you go shooting. They're

They're still loud. OK, it's not like it's not pew pew, as people know. So that's annoying that that might get stripped out by the parliamentarian. I got to check on that. A lot's still happening. And Clay, this is one of the problems when you call the phone call, when you try to find out what's going on, when things are in flux, you can be told, oh, oh, I think that's fine. Or I think that's it's tough to get people focused in and riled up about something when you're not sure what that something is.

Not only that, the parliamentarian, what I thought his answer was interesting on, I remember the Biden team being furious at this parliamentarian because they were trying to use the reconciliation package and basically to try to sum it up in a sentence because it is very complicated.

The only way you can get through on this loophole with reconciliation, which allows you to avoid having to get primarily budget, right? Primarily budget. So there were a lot of things in that line of, hey, is this primarily a budget based decision or is a political based decision is very complicated and frankly tenuous, right? I mean, it's ultimately in the eyes of the beholder. And I know the Biden team.

as Ron Johnson laid out, was furious over a lot of the rulings that she made as well.

Let's take a talk back here. Brian from Worcester, Massachusetts. AA, hit it. Hi, Buck. Just had a question for you. Now that you're an instructor, a firearms instructor, I was just curious as to when you think how old a child could be before you could start training them on the proper use of firearms. That's a good question. How old would you allow a child to handle a loaded firearm for purposes of training? Thanks. That's a very good question. I started shooting 22, so I'll just speak from my own experience.

I started shooting .22 caliber rifles when I was about 10 or 11 years old. I think for .22 that's good. I think the .22 caliber is a great teaching tool to have. I don't think that you should have somebody who is handling a firearm at an age when they can't fully cycle, meaning load, reload, manually cock back everything. So I'll come back to this maybe if you want later, but...

Really, 14, 15, I think you can start doing 9mm probably. Lee Travis and Buck Sexton on the Frontlines of Truth.

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