Trump on Upholding Constitution: "I Don't Know" | Historian Rutger Bregman
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You're listening to Comedy Central. From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central, it's America's only source for news. This is The Daily Show with your host, Stuart. Welcome to The Daily Show.

Thank you. My name is John Stewart. Man, do we have a show for you tonight. Later on, I'm going to be joined by our guest, Rutger Bregman. He is my all-time, and I mean this, all-time favorite Dutch historian. That's right, you heard me. Suck on that, Herman van der Donk, who is another Dutch historian that we looked up backstage. But first, and I'm so glad you're with us today, let's talk about our beloved president. He's in a...

He's in a bit of a tough situation right now since he ran on fixing the economy. And fixing the economy is very complicated. It's very tricky. You need professionals. But Trump is one of those guys who's like, I can do it. I know what I'm doing. He watched a YouTube video and he opened up the hood and he was like, oh, it's the wire from the carburetor. No, let me do it. Oh, it's on fire. And then his wife comes out and is like, I told you, buddy. And then he's like, you know me.

and seen. Now you see why I'm not in many movies. The point being, yesterday, Trump sat down for an interview with NBC's Meet the Press host, Kristen Welker, and the challenge was clear. The president had to find a way to persuasively take credit for the remaining good parts of the economy while subtly assigning blame to Joe Biden for the bad on fire parts.

Let's see how Trump threaded this rhetorical needle. -I think the good parts are the Trump economy and the bad parts are the Biden economy. -Nailed it. -He went right at it. No attempt at persuasion or allegory or metaphor. "Trump, good. Biden, bad." He's a regular Shakespeare. Maybe Shakespeare would have been better off with the Trump approach. Act 1, scene 1, Romeo and Juliet. "Hey, Juliet, it's Romeo. Let's and then kill ourselves."

I want to thank my family. Look, I'm trying very hard in this new Trump flood the zone media ecosystem strategy to not get too high or low, to not take the bait, to find things in my life that give me pleasure or peace. For instance, a quick story. I have a niece, 11 years old, loves dolls. I was going to get her 20 or 30 of them.

for her birthday. Just to see the joy of a child. You can't put a price tag on that. It gives me great solace. Anyway, like I said, I'm not trying to take these interviews personally. I don't think a beautiful baby girl needs, that's 11 years old, needs to have 30 dolls. First of all, I don't think we consider 11-year-olds baby girls. LAUGHTER

Second of all, you know what she needs. She's been through a lot this year. How many dolls would you get her? What is the appropriate number of dolls to get a beautiful baby 11-year-old girl, Mr. President? I think they can have three dolls or four dolls. That many dolls? Okay, sure, she could have a small tea party with the dolls, but her dream had been a quasi-realistic conclave reenactment with dolls. That's what she wanted. But fine, fine. It's fine.

I'll just tell her the President of the United States said no. You know what? It doesn't matter. Dolls are not her only happy place anyway. She also loves taking standardized tests. No, it's true. Very erudite. So I was thinking of getting her this wonderful baby's first SAT kit. It has all the Scantron sheets and around 250 number two pencils.

She's gonna go crazy. She is gonna love it. They don't need to have 250 pencils. They can have five. Dare you! What kind of a man would deny this poor girl her full complement of pencils for her dream standardized testing toy kit? Is that man A, Ebenezer Scrooge, B,

The Grinch. C, an evil step monster. Or D, all of the above. Oh, that's right. She can't answer because she's already used her entire pencil quota. I have to say, like, when Trump is talking about what people should do and get to like dolls and pencils, Trump has such a Depression era view of what kids play with.

In 2025, kids don't need 20 sets of those hoops you hit with a stick as you go down the street. Just one hoop is Jim Dandy. But look, to be fair to Donald Trump, his austerity pitch to the American people is in line with the modest way in which Trump conducts his life. Trump has a monastic view of simple living that says, hey...

What if Saddam Hussein's palace had a view of Central Park? They're standing in my apartment at Trump Tower. Some people consider it to be the greatest apartment in the world. And some people think it's what would look like inside Marie Antoinette's vagina. It was notoriously well-appointed. I do want to hand it to Trump. If you notice, a very sparing use of pencils and dolls. He does walk the walk. But look, here's the truth.

If a Democrat had even hinted at toy rationing for American children, we'd have a full week of Fox special reports on the sobbing children of socialist America and a boom in gun-toting patriots going, you can have my G.I. Joe when you pry it from a Kung Fu grip. But at least we're finally getting to address, in a substantive manner, Trump's chaotic stewardship of what was the world's most stable economy and how Americans are going to have to sacrifice financially

and tamp down their consumerist impulse. And that is what has driven so much of our economy, and I guess our waste. And I'm sure the president will use this interview with Welker to cheerlead the effort to a more financially responsible future for all of us. We're going to have a big, beautiful parade. A military parade? Yeah, sure. We're going to celebrate our military. We have the greatest military in the world. What's the price tag? People, peanuts compared to the value of doing it.

We can't afford not to do it. Why don't you bid me? If you hadn't spent so much on dolls and pencils, we were talking about this. But this is the brilliance of Trump. In the same interview where he says to Americans, sorry about your Christmas, suck it up. He talks about a $90 million parade that just so happens to fall on his birthday and is totally worth it.

We have the greatest missiles in the world. We have the greatest submarines in the world. We have the greatest army tanks in the world. We have the greatest weapons in the world. And we're going to celebrate it. I don't know, Mr. President, if you know how submarines work. But dragging them down Pennsylvania Avenue will most likely void the warranty. But this is why it's so hard to pin Trump down on everything.

Because to get to substantive policy questions, you have to face down the fire hose of his nonsense and bullshit that moves you off track. His frenetic nature that means we all end up suffering from a kind of secondhand ADHD, a viral cloud of his unfocused weaving that gives all of us brain fog. We'll know more. Hi, sharks.

When I saw the President of the United States starting out on tariffs and ending up on dolls and parades and pencils, I thought, "There's got to be a better way to help Americans figure out which of the things it's okay to get upset about and which things are just him off." So I invented this chart. Let me show you how it works. First, we take something the President said. -Donald Trump says that he is directing the Bureau of Prisons to reopen Alcatraz. -And then we figure out

Is that okay? Sure. It's okay. It's the kind of thing that's okay to just let go. It's just a stupid thing to keep us occupied, to lose focus on his actual policies. It's okay not to take the bait, to not get sucked into it. But why would you want to reopen Alcatraz?

What the is that? Why would you want to do that? The president says he wants to use the island to quote, "House America's most ruthless and violent offenders." And this notorious federal prison, it closed in 1963 because it was too expensive to run and repair. It's now been a museum. What, did Trump think we're low on prisons? What are you... Although I guess any opportunity for Trump to open a prison and simultaneously close a museum is too good to pass up.

But it'll take hundreds of millions of dollars or I don't know how many dollars in pencils, but it's a lot. Does does Doge know about this? Does Alcatraz? Alcatraz officials did not immediately respond to a request for comment because they run a museum. They're a museum. They're not. That's what they're. They're not. They're not like tough talking wardens. They're docents.

With art history degrees. The only person working there is busy fixing those machines that flatten pennies. That's the only person that works there. And here's the crazy part about Trump. He throws out these crazy ideas, and then those crazy ideas have days of shelf life. This is a press conference today announcing a partnership with the NFL draft. But now the NFL guys have to just sit there and nod through all this Alcatraz nonsense.

Our country needs law and order. Alcatraz is, I would say, the ultimate, right? Alcatraz, Sing Sing, and Alcatraz. Nobody's ever escaped from Alcatraz. And just represented something. One person almost got there, but they, as you know the story, they found his clothing. A lot of shark bites, a lot of problems. Right now it's a big hulk that's sitting there rusting and rotting. It sort of represents something that's both...

Horrible and beautiful and strong and miserable. We've got a lot of qualities that are interesting, and I think they make a point. One point! There is no point! I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The chart was supposed to prevent this kind of over-emotional digression. This one's on me. I am not leading a chart-based life right now. I apologize. I can do better. I can do better. Let's go again and judge whether or not this is an important pronouncement

or a brain fogging digression. President Trump shared an AI generated image of himself depicted as the Pope on social media yesterday. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's just okay. It's fine. It's not the most presidential thing, but Trump and the Pope do share the same taste in interior design. So it's not the worst fit. And it's just a troll. It's not hurting anybody. I mean, Trump wasn't going to heaven anyway. So it's not like it's gonna... I'm not gonna get distracted by it. I'm not gonna... But he can't really be the Pope.

The last time a non-cardinal was pope was back in 1378, when the Italian Archbishop Bartolomeo Prignano, who had been a monk, was controversially chosen from outside of the College of Cardinals, and he became Pope Urban VI. So, will Donald Trump follow in the 647-year-old footsteps of Bartolomeo Prignano? No, he won't. You see what you're doing to people, Trump?

MSNBC's gotta waste valuable air time fact-checking your f***ing nonsense. Time they could have spent frowning, sighing, and rolling their eyes. Is there anything during this chaotic news cycle that maybe we should keep our eyes on? Don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president? I don't know. Holy shit, that's not okay. By the way, I don't know? That wasn't a gotcha question.

Should the president uphold the Constitution? On Millionaire, that'd be the warm-up question. Like, what color is an orange? Or name a planet with people on it. I mean, if you can't answer that the president's supposed to uphold the Constitution, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't even let you become a citizen. And before you might say, well, they never told me I was supposed to. Let me refer you back to a cold day in January.

Preserve, protect and defend. Preserve, protect and defend. The Constitution of the United States. The Constitution of the United States. Were you even awake? Preserve, protect and defend, i.e. uphold. It's not optional. It is not an opportunity for you to lawyer shop loopholes to our nation's founding document. You took an oath in front of God and those who are fighting against God. But the important thing is this. Here's the problem. The volatility of nonsense is...

From consequential to truly disorienting is unfathomable. While we're chasing Pope and Alcatraz stories, the Trump administration has gutted funding for America's food banks. They've hollowed out the FAA to the point where Newark Airport is basically inoperable and not in its usual way.

And then there's this. Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. laid off nearly all workers at the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health. The program offers monitoring and treatment for first responders and survivors diagnosed with 9/11-related health conditions. Mother . I agree. Do you know how bad you have to be to make the lives of sick 9/11 responders worse?

The Trump administration is now number two on the 9-11 evil power rankings. Al Qaeda is still number one, but you're closing the gap. And trust me, there is nothing that you can do to distract me from making sure that those folks are going to get what they've earned from the government. The White House posting this AI image of a buff Jedi Trump to mark Star Wars Day on May 4th while touting his immigration crackdown. Here's the thing.

I know I'm not supposed to get distracted, but...

He's not a f***ing Jedi in that picture. Do you understand? Trump is presenting himself as a Jedi, but his lightsaber is red. And the only way you can have a red lightsaber is by infusing its kyber crystal with the power of your age and hate, thereby corrupting it into a vessel for the dark side. Therefore, therefore, every one of those photos that Trump is putting out there, he's admitting, he is admitting, he's not a Jedi, but in fact, a Sith Lord. And there are always two. So the question is this.

Who is he working for? And why do I know all this? Well, I happen to have an extensive collection of Star Wars action figures. 30 to 37 of them, actually. Some call them dolls. Call them friends! When we come back, Rutger Bregman. Don't go away. Introducing Instagram teen accounts.

A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on. All right, sweetie pie, buckle up. Good job. Or ring the bell on their bike. Okay, kid, give it a try. Nice. Or remember their elbow pads. Knees too, okay? Yep. There you go. New Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.

This podcast is supported by Talkspace. When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans, and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers, all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones.

Talkspace works with most major insurers, including Tricare.

Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com slash military. Go to Talkspace.com slash military to get started today. That's Talkspace.com slash military. I'm going to show my guest tonight. Fabulous guest. He's a historian, best-selling author. His new book is called Moral Ambition. Stop wasting your talent and start making a difference. Please welcome to the program Rutger Bregman, sir. ♪♪

And they go crazy for the Dutch historian crowd. Yeah, I know. Well, I have a lot of competition there. All the other famous Dutch historians. That's exactly. Van der Dunk had it coming for a long time. Listen, moral ambition is, in this country, obviously, has been somewhat outlawed. But...

What do you... How do you define moral ambition as something that people should be pursuing? So it's pretty simple. It's the combination of two things. It's the idealism of an activist, on the one hand, and the ambition of an entrepreneur. So it's the desire to stand on the right side of history before it is fashionable and to really devote your career, your precious time on this earth...

to make this world a much better place. You're trying to step into the footsteps of the great moral pioneers who came before you, the abolitionists, the suffragettes, the civil rights campaigners. But not as a hobby, as a vocation. Yeah. And you have a very interesting, the opening forward is so interesting. It's a story of a monk, the happiest person in the world, because brainwaves tell us this. And you tell this story, and I think you're going to a place where you say, be the monk. Yeah.

And you basically go, this monk is wasting his life. Yeah, well, look, I mean, he meditated for 60,000 hours and then researchers put him in a brain scanner and declared him the happiest man alive, you know, because he had so much positive things going on there. And I read about that story and I was really angry. And I was like...

60,000 hours in your own head and the world is burning? I mean, come on. There are problems to solve here. And look, I mean, Mathieu Ricard, that's the Buddhist monk's name. He's actually a fantastic guy, pretty morally ambitious. So people got to read the epilogue as well. But...

Wait, is this guy now like getting shit talked all over Twitter? No, no, no. Anyway, the point is, I mean, there are a huge amount of self-help books out there that will teach you how to be more mindful, more relaxed, you know, be more happy. My previous book, Humankind, was an attempt to restore people's faith in humanity. And at some point, I saw these pictures on Instagram of people reading the book saying, you know,

Life is wonderful. Don't worry. Stop following the news and just relax. And I was like, oh, I've created a monster, right? This is not. So if my previous book was like a warm hug, then this is a cold shower, a refreshing cold shower. A plunge. Apparently that's the thing now you're supposed to do. You go to the warm thing and then you go to the cold thing. Exactly. What is the piece of advice that was missing from you from the hug? How do you restore faith in humanity and then get mad at them?

So, look, a couple of... I want to restore faith in humanity. Oh, you people are just f***ing up, aren't you? Okay, so a lot of people will know me for saying some nasty things about billionaires. You know, I went to Davos once. You went to Davos? Yeah, yeah. Tell them what you said at Davos, which I thought was a really interesting... Well, it was really short. Basically, you know, stop talking about your BS philanthropy and pay your taxes instead. Which was... By the way, wait over break. Yeah.

You get invited back every year now, right? Not really, not really. But that was obviously nice to experience. But you've got to ask yourself, does this make a difference? In the book, I come to the conclusion that awareness is vastly overrated.

Right. It's easy to go viral shouting tax the rich or, you know, destroy capitalism, kill the patriarchy. But the point is to actually do something about it. Right. To really translate your ideas into actual action and then results. And I think too often on the left side of the political spectrum, we see this obsession with moral purity and then also a certain kind of political irrelevance. Right.

what it really takes to change the world is to build a coalition, right? All these great movements, the abolitionists, the civil rights campaigners, they were coalitions of people who very often didn't agree with one another. So I guess that's one of the pieces of advice I have here is if people agree with you for 80% of their time, they're not your enemy, but they're your ally. Your ally. What do you say to people? Because when I view the world of

moral ambition or activism, I actually see it as pretty vibrant that we may not know their names, but there are so many people that don't get the attention that are doing what you're suggesting, but maybe without the access to the people that matter, like that don't get invited to Davos, but are doing the

The grunt work, like working in the trenches, trying to get their representatives to notice or trying to make a difference. What do you say to people who are saying, like, I have moral ambition. I'm busting my ass out here. It's very hard to get a foothold. So I believe we live in a sort of inverse welfare society. So we've got the people in the so-called essential jobs. We discover that during the pandemic. If they go on strike, then that's a disaster for all of us.

On the other hand, we have huge amounts of people, educated elites, you know, who went to nice universities, who have fancy resumes.

If they go on strike, very often not all that much happens. You know, I've got one study in the book from two Dutch economists, actually. They studied 40 countries and found that around 25% of people in the modern workforce think that their own job is socially meaningless. These are, by the way, mostly people... Wait, how many? 25%. Yeah. I would actually think that'd be higher. Well, it's quite a lot, John. It's five times the unemployment rate. Is it really? Yeah, yeah. One out of four jobs. Yeah, exactly. Makes sense. I mean, last week I was at Harvard. Well, look at you.

It's an interesting example where you meet a lot of bright young students, right, who are generally idealistic. But then at the same time, you know that about half of them will end up in what a friend of mine calls the Bermuda Triangle of talent. So you've got consultancy, you've got corporate law, you've got finance, this gaping black hole that sucks up so many people.

talented people who should actually work on these big problems. So, look, I am not here to preach at people already in those essential jobs. I am actually preaching at sort of my own people because I'm quite angry at them. You're talking about Dutch historians. People, you know, who went to university, who had some education, you know, who should feel this responsibility to use their skill set to make a difference. So do you consider them... Oh, you're very excited about that. Uh...

What percentage... Do you consider our system, then, of education and economics a moral failure in that regard? And is it... Are there places where what you're talking about works? Is there an analogous situation? There are places in history. I mean... LAUGHTER

Was that depressing? This actually gives me hope. I mean, this is what's so great about Vajal. You know, in the book, I talk a lot about the British abolitionists. They were the most successful abolitionists. They built this huge movement in the late 18th century. And they considered their project to be part of a bit of a cultural revolution. They wanted to make doing good fashionable once again.

What really fascinated me about them is that they were mostly entrepreneurs. So nine or 10 out of 12 of the British, the founders of the British Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, they were entrepreneurs. You know, people who had built their own companies, who had skilled them, they knew how to get things done. Right. I mean, in the Netherlands at the time, yeah, it's pretty sad. There was a bunch of Calvinist social justice warriors who were mainly interested in their own moral purity. They didn't get much done. Right. They were the ones who on their Instagram pages kept putting up the black square. Exactly. Exactly.

I remember that. Yeah, yeah. And we've seen the same thing in the U.S., actually. The move from the Gilded Age to the Progressive Era, right? And now back again. But we could then go back again to perhaps another Progressive Era. I do see signs of that. So what is going wrong? Because to my mind...

The sticking point, and maybe this is semantics, but the sticking point doesn't appear to be people who are morally ambitious, but a system that is impervious to that, that is agnostic about people.

moral ambition, it feels like there's enough people in this country working their asses off for change and a political system that finds a way to ignore them in favor of insurance company lobbyists or drug company lobbyists. Like, they don't have access to this system. How do they get access? Yeah, sure. Look, I'm a guy who comes from the political left, so I'm all about systemic analysis. You know, I'm the guy who loves to shout, like, "Change the system."

But then writing in this book, at some point I got this feeling that perhaps, you know, this can become a kind of excuse as well, right? You can keep shouting like everything's wrong with the system, but systems, they consist of people, right? There's this beautiful quote from Margaret Mead who once said that we should never doubt the power of small groups of thoughtful, committed citizens to change the world. And actually people on the right wing side of the political spectrum, they understand that very well.

You know, Trump didn't come out of nowhere. This was a 50 year project. It started in the early 70s, probably with the Powell memo, for example, you know, this corporate lawyer from, you know, that was on the board of Philip Morris. And it was like, you know, let's build this whole movement to take over America. And then they created the Federalist Society and the American Enterprise Institute. Like you need some perseverance.

You need the moral ambition to be fused with, because on the right, they fused it very well with their billionaires and their media ecosystem. Whereas on the right, perhaps because it's not as homogenous, it's more difficult. Is the idea for these networks of morally ambitious activists to connect with

entrepreneurs and funders and move in that direction together. Absolutely. And that's what you're not seeing happen. Yeah. So I co-founded an organization as well called the School for Moral Ambition. Everything I earn with the book is going into that. The School for Moral Ambition. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We like to see ourselves as sort of the Robin Hoods of talent. So Robin Hood famously took away the money. I know who Robin Hood is. Okay, well, there you go. For those who didn't know. I mean,

I mean, that's a worthwhile endeavor, right? But you also need to take the talent. What we've seen in this country since the 60s and the 70s is that a lot of people used to go and work in those socially meaningful jobs. In academia, for example, or in government, they went to Wall Street creating BS financial products or Silicon Valley creating these apps that make us all addicted. We need a talent shift.

as well as a wealth distribution. - So what then is the incentive other than moral satisfaction? Is that, do we need to teach kids that? 'Cause that was, look, the hippies and the hippies of the 60s and they were very idealistic and then they all, you know, Reagan came along and they were all like, wait, I can work at a hedge fund? Okay. And so what is then, do you have to create then an incentive

process for those folks? How do you get that talent? -Yeah, so people who are really cynical would say, like, "Look, it's all about the money, right? These people are just selling out." And I think that's probably true for some of them. But for -- you know, back to those Harvard kids, for a lot of them, it's also the status, you know, of doing something that is actually cool, that is interesting. Because let's be honest, working at McKinsey is really boring, you know, creating the same PowerPoint every day. -Right, right. I don't work there, so I don't know what they're like. -Okay.

I've heard. So, yeah, I think it's not just about the money. People are mixed bags, right? So status and what society values, like the kind of people we put in the spotlight who get invited to shows like this, all that matters, obviously. Right, right. And is it, what about sort of the everyday sort of quiet activism of living pleasantly? Like, I think we shouldn't diminish, though,

for whatever your status is or station is that you can within your own life

make the changes that Create at least a better local atmosphere because I think what you're talking about. Yeah, you know when you point to history You're really talking about inflection points. Yeah, and and you don't know when those will occur and oftentimes Momentum bills to them and there's a tipping point in it. It moves over I don't know how how conscious it is and I push back on that place so again

Boy, Dutch people push back so nicely. Sorry. Well, it can be different as well. I mean, there is this tendency to say things like, less is more and small is beautiful. I mean, in environmental circles, they have all these modern commandments like don't eat meat, don't fly, don't have kids, don't use plastic straws.

But then if you really focus on that individualist aspect of improving your life, like in the best possible scenario, you will have reduced your environmental footprint to zero. You've basically turned yourself into a compost heap. It's not very ambitious. And if I look at some of these great pioneers, I also like...

like people like Rosa Parks like they didn't think small they thought big they were ambitious. So I've looked into the research and turns out that more is actually more so if you help one person that's great if you help two that's twice as much mathematics. But are we like I wasn't even talking about like let's use less because I do think

Human progress is generally like people will do what's more convenient or more. That's just kind of how how they they operate I'm just I guess I'm I'm just trying to wrap my head around what this means mm-hmm like

It feels like saying to, like, college kids at a graduation, like, you f***ing bastards. Yeah. Like, you think you're going to go into these other jobs? No. Yeah. Go solve climate change. Yeah. Is that what this is? That's basically it, yeah. Oh, okay. I mean... This would be the greatest...

The greatest graduation speech ever. You just get up there and go, listen, motherfuckers. One of the things we're doing is we're starting a tax fairness fellowship. So, I mean, it was nice to shout to the billionaires, you know, Texas, Texas, Texas. Now we're actually trying to recruit, you know, some of the best wealth managers, the best bankers, the best fiscal lawyers that we can find. But didn't they try this with, like,

The ESG, the investing for better, was that just nonsense? I mean, that is like a thin layer of corporate responsibility over a corrupt, broken business model. I mean, come on, we've got to be much more ambitious here. We're not living in 2015 anymore where you can say, oh, I'm doing good by doing well. Ah, 2015. Yeah.

And let's do a TED Talk about it. -Those were the days. -Yeah. No, that's not -- I mean, this is 2025. We have one side of the political spectrum is a total moral collapse. I mean, Democratic black-sliding happening everywhere. -Right. -Especially people who have some privilege, you know, whether it's talent, whether it's, you know, wealth, whether it's your network. Use it. I mean, people on the left, for so long, things like, "Check your privilege. Yes, check it. And then use it." You know? Have some skin in the game. -Right, right. And is that working?

I think so, yeah. It is. So, Howard, tell me about, and just before we go then, so if people want to exercise this moral ambition, what is, how do they get their foot on that ladder? Do they have to come to your institute? Or is there... Yeah, so we're building a movement now of... You could be running the greatest scam in history right now.

To do this, you have to come to the... Now, tuition is... No, no, no, no, no, no. There's no tuition. All right. We pay people to quit their job. That's how it works. For real? Yes. How much does that pay? Well, I mean, currently we're paying like an average Dutch salary. It's enough to live on for a couple of months. And then obviously, I mean, we help people to pivot.

You're really selling this. Thank you. Thank you. No, it's honestly quite exciting. Right. We have now 24 people in Europe who quit their job to fight big tobacco, for example. It's the most evil legal industry out there. They've created the deadliest product in the history of humanity. I mean, today we have this moral outrage about smartphones, right? Smartphones that make you addicted. There's TikTok on it. Imagine a smartphone that is so addictive and also kills you. That's a cigarette. So anyway, we've recruited...

It's terrible, isn't it? Yeah. Note to self, smartphone that kills you. Awesome product launch. So the point is, like, we have actually one of our fellows in our cohort is someone who used to work for Big Tobacco.

She switched sides and she knows everything about effective marketing and now she's using that skills to fight the industry. Right. Well, that's fantastic. And it starts off there. And have you done it in the United States as well or this is right now purely European product? No, no, no. We're starting here. You're starting here. Yeah, I came to New York in September. We're building out here. It's really getting started now. We're launching our first fellowships, as I said. Fantastic. The Tax Fairness Fellowship.

And do you have some people that are lined up? Well, people can apply. So go to moralambition.org if you want to quit your job and do something useful work. The book is Moral Ambition. Get your application now. Yes. We're going to take a good break. Fantastic. Introducing Instagram teen accounts.

A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on. Alright, sweetie pie, buckle up. Good job. Or ring the bell on their bike. Okay, kid, give it a try. Nice. Or remember their elbow pads. Knees too, okay? Yep. There you go. New Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.

This podcast is supported by Talkspace. When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans, and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers, all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones.

I just answered a few questions online and Talkspace matched me with a therapist. We meet when it's convenient for me and I can message her anytime. It was so easy to set up and they accept TRICARE. Therapy was going so well, my husband and I started seeing a couples therapist through Talkspace too. Talkspace works with most major insurers, including TRICARE. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com slash military.

Go to Talkspace.com slash military to get started today. That's Talkspace.com slash military. That is our show, ladies and gentlemen, for the night. Before we go, we're going to check in with your host for the rest of the week, Desi Lydic. Desi, come on. What's happening this week? Well, it's Conclave Week, John. They're electing a new pope, and I'll be in the room every day to find out what's going on.

In the conclave room? I think they only let cardinals in that room. Yeah, I know, dum-dum. That's why I spent weeks preparing to go undercover as Cardinal Cappuccino Pizzeria. I know this cardinal shit backwards and forwards. Go ahead, ask me anything. Anything. Okay, Cardinal Pizzeria. Who do you want to be pope?

No comprendo. I only speak the Latin. Nailed it. Jesus would be proud. And who is he? All right, never mind. Desi Lydic, all this week. Here it is, your moment of doubt. Actually, my wife thought it was cute. She said, isn't that nice? My question about it. Actually, I would not be able to be married, though. That would be a lot. To the best of my knowledge, popes aren't big on getting married, are they? Not that we know of, no. No.

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This podcast is supported by Talkspace. When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans, and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers, all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones.

I just answered a few questions online and Talkspace matched me with a therapist. We meet when it's convenient for me and I can message her anytime. It was so easy to set up and they accept TRICARE. Therapy was going so well, my husband and I started seeing a couples therapist through Talkspace too. Talkspace works with most major insurers, including TRICARE. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com slash military.

Go to Talkspace.com slash military to get started today. That's Talkspace.com slash military.