GOOD FOLLOW - Jon Anik on UFC Fight Night Plus Wimbledon, Jill Ellis, and more
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Welcome to Good Follow presented by DraftKings. I'm Megan Reyes and alongside me today is Logan Hackett. Logan, I haven't seen you in a couple of weeks. How are you? I'm good. It's so amazing to see your beautiful face. Let's kick things off over in the WNBA. All right.

Last Friday, Angel Reese extended her rookie record of consecutive double-doubles to 12. And then the next day, Kaitlyn Clark became the first rookie and the youngest ever to record a triple-double. Following the Fever win, the Chicago Sky tweeted a photo of Angel and her stats, captioning it, record-setter, the frontrunner, alluding to Angel being the clear leader for rookie of the year. And she has since extended her streak to 14.

So the race is heating up. And Logan, who do you think is your rookie of the year? Sometimes I want to say Caitlin. Sometimes I want to say Angel right now. I think I'm honestly on the Angel train because 14 consecutive double doubles as a rookie is insane. And also doing that with kind of the Caitlin noise behind her and given their history and everything to be able to kind of back it up on the court and be like, hey, I'm here too. Like, yeah.

It's not all about Caitlyn. I really love that. But now that I'm saying that, I feel like this week Caitlyn is going to go out and drop like a record high, like 65 points. So it'll probably change. As of now, I'm saying Angel, but...

Maybe like a co-rookie of the year? I'm not too sure. Kaitlyn has been the favorite for Rookie of the Year all season. And if 14 double-doubles, straight double-doubles by Angel isn't enough for her to overtake Kaitlyn as the favorite, what else does she need to do to become the frontrunner? I don't know.

I don't even know. I feel like this is such a cool time because I feel like every year or years past, at least, we kind of have like one breakout rookie. Aaliyah Boston was that last year. We had Ryan Howard. It's almost putting unrealistic expectations. What she's doing is so impressive. And yet if it's not enough, like what is one...

human in their early 20s really supposed to do. Angel has been putting up threes, and she wasn't really doing that in college. So she's really elevating certain parts of her game and becoming a whole player. And it's obviously working on the court. So we just need them to keep on doing their thing, and they'll be good. Yeah, they keep putting good basketball out there for us. So we're not complaining.

And as we've been saying this whole time, we've been doing good follow that they aren't the only two rookies who have been shining this season. We've already seen some of the other rookies have massive success, but they're kind of not so great teams. I guess that's usually what happens when you're the best. You're going to get drafted early by not so great team. So which star rookies do you think are most likely to turn their team around first? I would say Rekia Jackson and Cam Brink.

if Cam Brink didn't get injured. The duo together was incredibly good. I think we're kind of seeing that with Angel and Camilla, especially with like how Cam was doing and how she was kind of like progressing. I'm devastated for her, but I mean, she'll come back. She won't be a rookie, but when she'll come back, then I think we'll really be able to see that in action and with Rikki in her second year and whoever they pick up from the draft this year, because that draft class is insane once again. Okay. So I know you've played a lot of sports. Yeah.

And correct me if I'm wrong. Did you play tennis? I didn't play tennis, but I was raised in a tennis family. My mom is a tennis nut. Like she's just okay. So in Canada, we have hockey. That's like our big, everyone loves hockey. Everyone plays hockey. It's the equivalent in Australia. So she played her whole family was into it. So every single weekend, or if there was like a grand slam, she'd be sat would not be saying anything to me except for watch the TV and

And my dad got into it too. Everyone got into it. I kind of hated it. And then something switched. I think it was maybe during COVID and I got so into it. I feel like my IQ is so like tennis IQ. The stuff I could talk about is a little bit, um,

It goes pretty deep, but yeah, more of the stories. I love it, but I didn't play it and I can't play it. I kind of struggle. Okay. Well, you're our good follow tennis expert from this point forward. So let's talk Wimbledon. And as we all know, big shocker happened on Sunday, uh,

Number two seed Coco Gauff was eliminated by number 19 seed Emma Navarro in straight sets to advance. What are your thoughts? It was shocking to watch Coco look up to her box for so much help because we normally don't see that. I mean, you're allowed to talk to coaches, but there were times where she's like, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to beat Emma. And they're both Americans, so I feel like they've probably played before. But Emma has been on the come up and she's having fun.

a really cool rise this year. I'm pretty sure she went third round in Australian Open, fourth in Roland Garros, and then now quarterfinals, I want to say. She's having a really good year, and this isn't even the best that we're seeing from her. Sad for Coco, but very happy for Emma. And so Coco wasn't the only top seed to be upset. Number one, Iga Strontek lost to Yulia Putinsva in the third round.

she was then booed out of Wimbledon as her 21 match streak came to an end. Logan, where does she go from here? I honestly think that was a very Iga thing to do. She has her highs and she's doing so well in Unstoppable. And then randomly she'll just like kind of go down. But one thing that Yulia did was confused her. Iga had no clue kind of what to do. And when she gets into that situation, it's like,

She just can't really play her tennis that she normally plays. And she also mentioned that she was tired after Wimbledon and Roland Garros and everything. So I think she needs to rest and try not to get into confusing situations. But with that said, I think she's still going to be at the top for a while because if you look at like the points in the rankings, she has like three or 4,000 more than everyone else. So I think she's good. She just kind of needs to figure some stuff out. Okay.

And so then other than the two upsets, what else were some big surprises for you in the tournament? This is my favorite story ever. We have Lulu Sun. Oh my goodness. Her journey has been so cool. So she started in qualifiers, which if you're not ranked in the top, I want to say like a hundred something, you play qualifiers, which is a whole other tennis tournament. And she was so, so close to losing. And then in the first round, she upset Quinn Wen Zhang, who is ranked number eight.

and then went on to upset Emma Rajukanu on center court in her hometown because Emma's from the UK. So that was like a whole big thing and very exciting. But another cool thing is that her mother is Chinese, her father is Croatian. She was born in New Zealand, raised in Switzerland, represented Switzerland and went to school in Texas. So then after she won, people were like, what is she going to sound like? And she sounded completely American. That's hilarious. Yeah.

Yeah, but she has like the personality behind it and it was so cute. Her family was like bawling when she upset Emma and it was such like a lovely story to see. Unfortunately, she lost in the quarters to Donna Vechik. Still a great story. Yeah, and I really think we'll be seeing a lot more of Lulu's son, especially because everyone loves her too. So they'll show her even more. Okay, great. Well, I'm bought in. Okay, let's talk fashion. Who is the best dressed at Wimbledon? Marta Kostiak. One of her sponsors is Wilson.

And they somehow came up with the idea to recreate her wedding dress, but in tennis dress form. I guess it might have gone with the whole Wimbledon being white. She might have just got married, but it was a very cool concept and they had like side by sides. And honestly, if I ever went pro in something, I don't care what it is, but I want to do something like that because it's incredibly cool. That's really creative. Yeah.

Yeah, and Wimbledon is always hard because it has to be white outfits. Maria Zachary had a vest situation with like a frilly skirt. It was pretty cool to look at. And Paula Bedosa had like a sleek Nike dress that was just completely up my alley. It's my style. But question for you, if you were in Wimbledon, what would you wear? I'm a cropped girly. So probably like some cropped white. I like a one shoulder dress.

I don't even know if anything I would wear would be considered like appropriate Wimbledon attire. It'd probably be like, she's too, she's being a little bit too on the fringe for what we would wear here. But, um, if I had to do a skirt, okay, I'll go white pleated. We've been seeing like crop tops and stuff kind of come into it. And I think Coco has been wearing them a lot. Um, not too sure at Wimbledon, but I'd honestly go with that fit too, because I love a good crop. They're like, this is way too inappropriate for us. And I'm like, that's why I'm not here. Yeah.

Okay, so the women's singles is this Saturday. And with nearly all of the top seeds out of the tournament, who do you think is going to win the championship? Alina Rubikina, she's won before and she has had a cakewalk into this final. She kind of has it on her racket, if that makes sense. But Jasmine Paolini...

Oh, I love her. She's like, she's 28, but she looks like she's like 15. The cutest thing ever. But she's short and she moves so incredibly fast and she's hitting all these shots everywhere and has like kind of really stumbled people. Along with that, she was in the final of Roland Garros. So I think she's kind of in this European swing, like really doing well and she's on momentum. I want Paolini to win, but I think it's going to be Alina Verbikina.

I'll put money on that. Yeah, because you said so. I always like hate that type of thing. That's why I go with two answers. I'm like, I want someone to win. But again, I don't think we've ever like seen the two play. I mean, it'll be a first matchup and it's going to be very exciting. But we've been having a lot of fun so far. We are going to get serious for a moment as we move over to the NWSL.

One of the biggest stories to come out of the NWSL in the last few weeks was former San Diego Wave video and creative manager, Brittany Alvarado, releasing a statement accusing Wave Club president, Jill Ellis, of creating an abusive workspace. Meg, what was your reaction to this when the news broke? Well, first and foremost,

My love and support is with Brittany, whom I know, and I'm giving her lots of virtual hugs and sending her good thoughts on her healing journey from afar. It's not easy to speak out in such a manner that she did. She made herself really vulnerable and it's not easy to speak out. And so I stand with her. I stand with Jenny and Bernadette and the other former wave employees who have also come forward with their stories that are all in alignment with what Brittany's statement said. I

I can't even wrap my brain around it. It's just so disappointing that in the year 2024, that we're still having this conversation with everything the league has been through, that we're still perpetuating these types of work environments. I have dedicated...

most of my career to loving and helping grow this league. And then at the same time, it's hard to want to help grow and love this league when this is still happening. I want to see women's soccer continue to grow, especially in America. It's really hard for me and Good Conscious to continue to advocate for like, we need more women in soccer. We need more women playing soccer when

It's just the same bullshit over and over. And I think, too, even on the player side, we're seeing a lot of teenagers playing in the league, which is exciting that youth is being developed. And then you also take a step back and you're like, but damn, we still have abusive and toxic environments around.

happening in the league and now we're involving minors in that, like that's really concerning. So I have a lot of mixed thoughts on it, but it's really disappointing. With this history, especially with the history that we had and everything that happened last year, to think that this is still going on, we all thought that there was solutions and it kind of feels like it was not pushed to the side, but it

It hasn't been dealt with how it's supposed to be dealt with. Well, and I don't know even like what the right solve is because it's, it's truly a systemic issue. And what I think would be necessary is transparency in who are these other people? Because my concern is,

Some of those statements and other stories that were coming out from former wave employees is oh my former manager Said this to me or treated me in such a manner, but they're no longer there And so to me I'm like well, where are they and frankly like who are they and it's not on? Brittany or these other people who are we're already brave and vulnerable enough to come forward to then out those people but that type of transparency is

I think is important because they're probably at a different club. Are they still in the league? Are they in other sports? And unfortunately, highly likely that they may be continuing that same cycle somewhere else. And again, as women who work in sports, even outside of soccer, it's already a tough place for us to be. And we've seen people struggle with their mental health, both on the player side and the front office side, because

The long hours, the inability to disconnect. And the last thing we need are managers and people in leadership positions creating an abusive environment. So I don't know what the solve is. As you said, we thought measures have been put into place to eliminate this, but it seems like it's still happening.

Yeah, we're sending lots and lots of love to everyone dealing with this, going through this, or who have just had like something like this happen to them because it's never fun, especially when you have to take it to social media for your story to even be heard. And that's one of the parts that just absolutely breaks my heart. I think it's also important to remember that these individuals like Brittany and others who have come forward, they really have nothing to gain from this.

other than hoping to see progress and change. We have to look back to Sidney LaRue and Megan Rapinoe and other players who have tried sharing

They're similar stories. And then we see Sydney spoke about it. Even Alex Morgan, leader, plays for the wave, came out and showed support for for Britney and the others. Like people have been trying to tell us something. I think it's time we pay attention. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

It's time for a new segment called A Moment in History. The first moment we're highlighting is the U.S. Women's National Team 1999 World Cup win, which was absolutely iconic. I wasn't lying, but it was iconic. It's been 25 years since the U.S. took down China in penalties leading to the win. Brandi Chastain took the final penalty to seal the win and famously took off her jersey in celebration. That led to one of the most iconic moments of her life.

sports photos that I think we've ever seen. Meg, how much impact has the game had on women's sports today? I don't know if you can see it, but I have my 25 soccer scarf, 25 year soccer scarf. It has the names of the women that were on the field when they won the World Cup in 99. Also, I love and adore you and I cannot believe that you weren't born when...

this happened. I think it has a huge impact because I mean, 25 years later, they still have a massive impact. And I think they inspired a generation of players who are now the leaders and the role models for girls to come. So they started this ripple effect. But then you also look at Brandi Chastain is part owner of Bay FC. Mia Han went and helped start Angel City. All these players are continuing to leave their impact on the game. And it's

created a movement that I hope will sustain, but I can't believe it's been 25 years since that moment. I wonder if this was like the true Kickstarter for women's sports as a whole, not even women's soccer, but I feel like that's when people really started to pay attention. When you ask people, um,

What was a women's sports moment that you really admired growing up in the 90s? It was probably, it's probably that moment. And in honor of the anniversary, I sat down with bar owners Annie Weaver and Miranda Spencer, who are co-owners of the 99ers Sports Bar in Denver. A nod to the 1999 Women's World Cup team. While they plan to open later this summer, they have not waited to build a community around women's sports. Annie

Miranda shared with me how the seed of an idea took shape and then welcomed us to a pop-up WNBA watch party at another Denver spot, the Blind Tiger. Let's take a look. A bar that's going to show women's sports. If I had had something, a space like this 10 years ago, it would have been huge. Everyone is welcome here.

Annie and I actually met playing flag football and Annie presented the idea to me in the back of the minivan while I was driving it and I was like, "Are you being serious right now?" Like, I'm just trying to gauge this question and she goes, "Yes, I'm being serious." And I was like, "Yeah, let's do it. Like, I'm interested in it." I think coming up with a name is way harder than you think. Miranda and I were kind of sitting down and we were talking about who were our favorite athletes growing up and Miranda's is Sue Bird, mine is Mia Hamm. I was Mia Hamm, I think, five years in a row for Halloween.

My mom asked me, "Are you sure you don't want to be somebody else?" And I was like, "No, I think I'm going to be Mia Hamm again." The 1999 Women's World Cup team, they were just so much more about the individual and so much more about the community, and that's what our goal is. They cared so much about each other and empowering each other and being a team. Rather than making it about one athlete, we want to make it about that, about community. That was just such a pivotal moment in women's sports. Because of Brandi Chastain ripping her jersey off and being on live national television,

with her shirt off and people going crazy about it. Being able to see somebody on TV that looked like us and having dreams and being able to aspire. Well, speaking of the 99ers, actually, I was looking through my phone the other day and I saw this video that I wanted to show you guys. Sure. Yes! Hell yes! Miranda, Annie, Julie Foudy here. One of the 99ers.

So damn thrilled for you. Congratulations. Congratulations on your 99ers bar, getting it off the ground. Such a cool movement all around the United States to see all these women's sports bars perking up. So, so thrilled for you guys. Cannot wait to come and get a drink and celebrate with you. And our only request is that we maybe get a name our drink and maybe name one after each player on the team.

and then we get to give a description. That's gonna be a lot of fun. We already have a 99ers thread going on that, on what we would call our drink and what we would describe it as. Oh, good times. Congratulations, can't wait to celebrate with you. Oh my gosh. Tears again. I don't cry. I'm not a crier. This has been such a humbling experience.

You're gonna make me cry. I'm not even a crier, but like that is just, you know. What they've done and what they continue to do and 25 years later, it's still relevant. I think that's very telling and every single time something like that happens, it's just

It's so much bigger than any other. We say that all the time. It's not about us. We just get to be the ones that are lucky enough to create a space for people. It's everybody for the community, making it inclusive. And to have the support of the 99ers and Julie Foudy and other people that we've talked to is just incredible. And so you're doing this all on your own. Correct.

Oh yeah, yep, it's the two of us. Personal loans, personal finances. Yeah, we didn't qualify for small business loans because we don't have collateral. We call this our passion project all the time and normally I'm not a risky person at all. We just think it's worth it. This cause is worth it. Every single time something gets hard, we say it's for the people. Being queer and coming out as an athlete and as an adult

It was obviously the process of that was tough, especially in the time that we were in. Megan Rapinoe came out in 2012, which was really iconic for me just because she put herself all over the media. She looked like me. I mean, I had short hair. She had short hair. She was outspoken. I was outspoken. I'm kind of like the black sheep of my family, always going to have an opinion towards something, and it's going to be a strong opinion, and it's going to be

differing from everyone else. So for me, that was very impactful then, but it's also even more empowering now to see somebody in it doing it. And personally, that's very important to me and I can only imagine how important it is to others like myself as well. And I know she pairs with like the Human Rights Campaign to be an advocate for them as well.

And obviously being a soccer player, there are countless soccer players now who are out and those are huge. Allie Krieger, Abby Wambach was another one. Kristen Press and Tobin Heath, the power couple. Ashlyn Harris. I think the one that like hit me the most was Billie Jean King. Like the only thing she regrets is not coming out sooner. So I think that's just so powerful, you know, and I can relate to that.

Lady Justice, we're actually going to be one of their house spears that they have on tap all the time. We played all of the women's NCAA tournaments. We literally have lines out the door. So they started tagging us and the 99ers together. We're just trying our best to do everything we can to help the 99ers get up and move in because we love it. I think the biggest fear we both have is that nobody would show up. Clearly, and as you can see, more people are coming. So it's exciting. There's definitely a women's focus on sports.

And acknowledging that women actually do play sports. If you don't play sports, women just love sports. I don't know a time when I didn't. That older generation that had no access to anything like this, that's really touching for me to be able to see them here and give them a space that they didn't get to have. And they're just as hyped about it as we are. I think it's more than just that it's a women's sports bar, that it's a women's-centric bar. And what we hear a lot is that women don't support sports

lesbian businesses.

But look at this, we do. And this is awesome. And I think that it's really cool that everyone is coming up to us and thanking us and saying how excited they are and just really building everything around it as well. Like it's not just us, it's all of this that's making it possible, to be honest. Especially if we have this many people saying they want to be regulars, it's a good problem to have, you know? And it just means that we need more spaces like ours. It's community. It's bigger than us. It's bigger than an individual. I think the journey is just beginning.

Thank you again to Annie and Miranda for sitting down with me and welcoming me into the bar. For someone who spends quite a bit of time in Denver, I really loved hearing about how they came together to create a space that elevates women's sports. So if you're ever in Denver, you have to check out the 99ers Sports Bar once they open up later this summer. Coming up, Logan sits down with UFC play-by-play commentator John Anik to discuss the growth of women's MMA in this weekend's UFC Fights.

Welcome back into Good Follow. Joining me now to discuss this weekend's UFC Fight Night is UFC play-by-play announcer John Anik. John, you have a big weekend coming up. How are you doing? Well, I'm doing great. You know, I am actually not calling this live event, so I'm doing a watch party from my podcast studio that I have

to be in right now. So I'm very excited to actually just be a fan this weekend. My next big show is UFC 304 Manchester, England, live on pay-per-view. So gearing up for that one. We'll start the voiceover process for that, but I'll just be a fan this weekend. And I guess providing supplemental audio and video as these ladies go at it in the main event come Saturday night.

That is so much fun, but let's get into all things women's MMA. More and more women are getting into the sport, and before we get into this weekend's fights, I want to dive deeper into the growth of women's MMA. How do you think UFC's commitment to showcasing women's fights has influenced the broader MMA landscape? It's been crazy. There are so many young women who

don't even necessarily have a background in karate or kickboxing or Brazilian jiu-jitsu or judo. They start with straight mixed martial arts. And I think a lot of that is because they watch Ronda Rousey and Gina Carano and other pioneering forces in women's MMA. A lot of it is just rooted in

More women being seen on TV, more young women ingesting the sport. And I don't have any internal metrics in terms of how women draw versus men. But I can tell you we have seen a huge increase in terms of headlining fights, women's main events. And knowing I was going to be talking to you today about that.

The numbers I tracked, six women's main events in 2022, five main events in 2023. And after the next two weekends here in July, we will have had four UFC women's main events in 2024 by July 1st.

20th. So that I think helps a lot. And obviously the level overall in terms of the actual mixed martial arts among the women is going up every day. So it's an exciting time. You know, I'm hopeful one of my daughters wants to get in there one day. We'll see. Oh, I absolutely love that. And with UFC airing more and more women's fights, have you seen women's MMA evolve over the years in terms of audience reception or appreciation of women's fighting? You know, I still think there's a gap to be closed as far as where women's

you know, low-level men's MMA is versus low-level women's MMA, but the sport has absolutely blown up, and there's a lot of reasons why it has. Internationally, it's always been big. Domestically, you know, our imprint continues to expand because of the ESPN deal, which came on the back of the Fox deal. But

Most UFC fans know, you know, the women were showcased for the first time at UFC 157 in 2013, and it has been nothing but steady growth, you know, and that is obviously very encouraging. It's a good time to be a women's MMA fan, good time to be a UFC fan across the board. What has particularly been meaningful to you in the evolution of women being in the UFC?

It's just really cool to see women come into the UFC, make their debuts, steadily progress and become a superstar. You know, Joanna Janczyk, Polish woman, tremendous striker, comes into the UFC. A year and a half or so later, she's a champion. Five title defenses.

landed out a lot of big pay-per-views, made a ton of money, went into the UFC Hall of Fame a couple weeks ago. And it's cool to watch the journey. It's cool to watch the evolution of the sport. You know, I called the first UFC women's strawweight fight in 2014. And...

Now I think about where the 115 pound women's division is and it's insane. And other sports, other women's sports, you've been able to kind of see the pay gap between the men's evolve and come up. What has that been like? And has it been kind of the equivalent of like other women's sports, like let's say women's soccer? So our pay is not disclosed, but we don't have gaps like some of these other sports do. You know, certainly our female champions do.

I wouldn't expect are paid on the level of the men's champions, but they do really, really effing well. And a lot of our stars are women. So they do really well also. I mean, there are plenty of women on our roster who have a profile similar to a man on our roster and the woman makes more. So oftentimes, especially for defending champions at the top of the heap,

You know, if you land on a pay-per-view that features some of the bigger stars, I think our women are really taken care of. And, you know, that's obviously a credit to the UFC and the promotion. All right. So now it's time to talk about this weekend's fights. Starting with the prelims, number 15, Jasmine Jasvidius takes on unranked Fatima Klein and Luana Santos is up against Maria Agapova.

What can you tell us about these fighters and what can we expect from the fights? Jasmine Jazz Divizious, outstanding wrestler from Canada, was to face the Brazilian Viviani Araujo. And that was in the featured prelim slot, which is a very high profile slot on ESPN. A lot of people would be tuning into that fight. And Araujo is being replaced by this undefeated 23-year-old Fatima Klein. And

I guess the betting line is only but one lens through which to look at a fight. But this UFC newcomer who's 23 years old, who's an outstanding grappler, stepping up on short notice is a slight betting favorite against a credentialed Canadian who's sort of been there and done that in the UFC. So I think that's pretty telling as to maybe what the expectations are for Fatima Klein. And credit to Jasmine Jazdavizas, of course, for accepting the

seemingly dangerous fight against an undefeated lesser known opponent you know the other prelims interesting Luana Santos taking on Maria Agapova so Agapova hasn't fought since 2022 and you

You know, I don't want to suggest that she's sort of a sad story, but it seems like she's been dealing with some things. She intimated on Instagram recently that she was close to being homeless. You know, I think this is a woman who's battled a lot of demons in her personal life, a lot of professional and personal adversity. Luana Santos is a massive betting favorite here. You know, she had some issues going into her last fight. She has Hashimoto's disease, so she missed weight. She was fighting up a division on short notice. Now she's fighting back at Flyweight, which is where she belongs. And, you know, she's got

I think more ways to win, but Agapava is very much a wild card and, you know, has a lot of finishing ability, especially on the submission front. So, yeah, I'll be a fan watching these women like everybody else this weekend. And on to the main fight between No. 6 Rose Namajunas and No. 11 Tracy Cortez.

Cortez hasn't lost a fight since her pro debut and is on an 11-fight win streak. And Rose is a former two-time UFC strawweight champion. What can we expect from the two of those top-ranked women, and what are you most excited about in this fight? Tracy Cortez was to fight somebody else in a non-main event three-round fight on July 20th. Instead, she steps up a week early for a five-round main event at altitude,

against former two-time UFC strawweight champion Rose Namajunas. So I understand why Rose is the favorite, but Tracy Cortez is an absolute force. And when you are one of the best in the world, and I do believe Tracy Cortez, 5-0 in the UFC, to be on the cusp of being that, you know, you got to be ready.

I think, to take on all comers. I love the fact that Rose Namajunas told our matchmaker, Mick Maynard, that she would fight anybody else in the division when Macy Barber pulled out. And I think that tells you a lot about where Rose is mentally right now. She just is of a good competitive mind, which is probably a scary proposition for the rest of the flyweight division, if not Tracy Cortez. But

I really like Tracy Cortez's upside. I see why some people consider her a live underdog. Her striking looked great in her last fight. To your point, she hasn't lost in a very long time. You know, we don't do watch parties unless the main event is worthy of one with total respect, and this one certainly qualified.

For anyone who might be new to the UFC and MMA, what are some other storylines surrounding these two fighters that the audience should know about? One of the most special things is watching a fighter become a first-time UFC champion, you know, title challenger to undisputed UFC champion. And we got to experience that with Thug Rose Namajunas back in the day. And, you know, I find myself wondering a lot what a win for Tracy Cortez would do in terms of her championship aspirations and some of those type of moments materializing for her because she's

been through it you know Tracy lost her mom in 2015 she lost her brother Jose in 2011 after a long battle with cancer she really just has been through it and she has emerged out the other side and has done a lot of work on herself and that says nothing of just how good a fighter I happen to

think she is as someone who has had a front row seat to a lot of her recent fights. So, you know, I'm hopeful for Tracy, but you want to talk about a fighter that's done a lot of work on themselves. I mean, it's Thug Rose. And not only did she lose her belt, but she got her belt back. And now she's chasing a belt in a second division. And she's

her main streak is back. So I just have a lot of respect for these two athletes. And, uh, you know, that's why I'm devoting my Saturday night off to, uh, to them. And one last question for you. Who do you have winning this fight?

Ah, so hopefully my analysis gives the betters out there some sort of lean one way or the other. But because I might call the next fight involving either of these women, if I make a prediction here and it gets back to Rose or Tracy, you know, fast forward three months, I'm sitting down with Tracy Cortez and she says, hey, I heard you were on with Logan and, uh.

And you picked against me in my last fight. So I have to abstain. I understand why Rose is the favorite. And I guess if I'm going to fence it, I'll say I understand why people kind of like Tracy Cortez. Are you predicting like a knockout? I think there's a great chance it goes the distance. I think if a finish does materialize, either knockout or submission, it might be because of some fatigue. But no, I think it goes the distance and I think it'll be decided on the scorecards.

Well, John, it was so great having you on and thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. When we come back, make Katie and I sit down with pro golfer and trickshot artist, Tanya tear, as she walks us through her journey into golf, how she turned her trickshot videos into career and the growth of women in golf, AKA me because I was a golfer.

It's been a three-year wait, but the Olympics are back, and the CBS Sports Podcast Network has you covered with everything happening in Paris. It's a new era for the U.S. women's national team, and attacking third will tackle all the women's soccer action. First cut will keep close tabs on golf, while beyond the arc will follow the U.S. men's basketball team on a quest for another gold. And we need to talk now will provide comprehensive coverage of women's athletes at the Olympic Games. Follow

and listen to all CBS Sports podcasts for free on the Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. Tanya, thank you so much for joining us. I'm going to start right off and ask, tell us about your background. Where did you grow up? Now that I've left, I feel very lucky that I grew up in New Zealand. I have like five brothers, five sisters. My mom's Cook Island, Hawaiian Tahitian, so she's from the Pacific Islands.

And she grew up in the Cook Islands until she was like 20, 20, I think, then came to New Zealand. My dad, he's, he's just white. Lots of different white, I guess. When did you, when did you start playing golf? So I started, I hit my first shot at a golf range when I was 14, nearly 15. So I guess in like women's sport, that's kind of late for a sport, especially if you plan to go pro.

I personally don't think it was a bad age. I think it was a perfect age. I think when you're younger, you're not strong enough to do a lot of stuff that you need to do in the golf swing. By the time you're 14, girls like a bit taller and a bit stronger by then you can physically do that stuff. And so you don't get into bad habits. So I would say I was probably lucky that I started late later than others. I,

I admittedly know nothing beyond golf other than the driving range. Logan played in college, so this might be an obvious question for her, but for our good follow audience, what goes into golf training? - I think golf is just extremely technical. Most of the movements that you have to learn, they're not natural movements for your body. You've got to keep your lower body still, but completely rotate your upper body, so you've got to do this contradicting move. A lot of the stuff that you do, if you wanted to do it naturally,

you almost have to unlearn the natural thing and then do something completely different. So a lot of the time it's like unwinding like normal habits and then like trying to get into the habit of doing this unorthodox movement kind of. And then repetition is probably a really big part. Like I used to hit...

like six or 700 balls in the morning and then go out and play golf in the afternoon. And like, I'd just be at the course all day. And the thought of like, I don't even know if I could physically do that anymore. Cause I would always go to the range and just hit balls. Cause I was like, cool. My swing's great. And like, I've been in so far.

like, let me just keep like hitting it further. And then I'd just be terrible at like chipping and punting. So it's just a waste. That was literally everything I did. My shoulder sockets hurt thinking about that. Okay. I'm going to pivot us to your trick shots because I spent probably like three full hours watching every single one that you did over the last couple of days. And they are so sick. So I want to know when you started and like where,

how from a even from a creative perspective how you started thinking about this oh so I'm sure everyone saw that Tiger Woods commercial back in the day where he just bounced the ball and hit it out the air

So actually when I was 12, before I ever hit a golf ball normally, I learned how to do that because I saw it on an ad. I thought it was like the coolest thing ever. So I learned how to do that. Went to the park, tried to learn the hidden out the air part, like got that down. I pretty much never hit a ball off the ground. Every time I like got to the ball, I'd pick it up and like try hit it. So I kind of knew already how to hit the ball out the air and I would just do that wasting time at the range and stuff.

And then after college, still none of my family or friends play golf. It was just people that I've met at golf. And then I did these videos and like my family started going to the range to try to do the videos that I did. It was like hitting out the air of the driver or like stored a ball on my back and then hit it off when I rolled off my shoulder. So like things like that. So they would go and then that end up hitting golf balls because they were just there and

And so now my whole family plays golf, except my mom. All of my friends play golf. Like one of my best friends who went to college for soccer, he now is like obsessed with golf. He waits up for the, he like waits up in the middle of the night for like releases of golf clubs and things. He's obsessed. So it's kind of been really cool because just doing these videos for them, like now they all play and they all want to go to the golf range and they all want to go on the golf course when I get back or like when they come here or something. So yeah,

It kind of worked out. You're the definition of an influencer. You have influenced your entire circle and your extended circle. They owe you so much. When did you start being like, I think I can make a living on my sick trick shots? Honestly, when I was told, like, people would tell me, you know, I can make money off this. I'm like, what? Like, I was like...

doing these videos I was like no and then I pretty much just took my profile off private at the end of 2016 so it's probably like November and within like probably a night the next day I like just got all these followers the golf pages started taking them making videos and posting them and I kind of just blew up pretty immediately and then within a

two months or a month and a half, I was filming a commercial for Honda. So it happened really fast. A literal good follow. Wait, what was that like? Did you panic? That's such a fast climb.

I know it was really quick. And then I had these people like telling me like, you can make so much money doing this. I was like, money? What is that? People pay you for this stuff? I was like, that's so random. Just watching you kind of, everything that you've paved the way for, do you feel like there's been more...

women in that golf trick space or just in your entire journey in general have you seen more women coming up to the surface not specifically with trick shots and I'll just say probably because they're hard like for all the sports that I played growing up like hand-eye coordination for golf tricks for me has been the hardest thing I've tried and so like

I don't think it's an easy thing to jump into but I do think if you're a woman and you have like you know some skill towards that there's a space for you because like most of the space is male dominated you go to events like a lot of the events that I meet I'm sure I luck out over some of the guys that are really good because they're like well we want to check there and I'm like

I'm like, okay, like that worked out for me, you know? What's the hardest trick shot you've ever done? Because I kind of want to try it. Oh, okay. I would say the hardest tricks I ever do are the cup ones, like some of the really complicated cup ones that I've just like came up with. They're the hardest, they take the longest tries. And you just have to be so precise with it. So it's difficult. Sometimes you get it in, it bounces out. It's just so many things happen with those.

But I remember when I was trying to learn how to do a double front flip. So you like throw the club, you bounce the ball up really high and then you throw the club and it spins forward twice and then catch it and then find the ball and catch it again. That one was just hard because you have to spin the club so hard and if you like go to catch it and you catch it wrong, it'll like smack your hands.

So it's a little bit risky. Sometimes I probably got heaps of footage of me, like throwing it up, pin the ball, throwing it up and like not knowing where the club is anymore and losing it. And then just running out of frame. I get a concussion. It's like some of the tricks are like risky, but I mean, that one was all the ones that are like really high, really risky. They just feel so good when you pull them off. Like sometimes even today, I just, sometimes when I get certain tricks, I'm like,

It just feels so surreal. It's like it all happened in slow motion in my head. What needs to be done in order for the sport to evolve and for golf to see more people of different backgrounds join and want to participate and also want to cover? I think they need to change a lot of the management in these big companies. Like I've tried to do certain things myself.

with the rpga and try help with the women because i always felt like the men are fine you know they've got so much support they've got so many fans like they're good but i was like the woman could use some help i'm also a woman golfer so i was like that's where i feel like i could be put to use but any time that i've tried to work the rpga it's hit a point in upper management and it's just been

like shut down. I would say that people like normally in the marketing sectors, they always are really pretty open to me like being there and like wanting to do stuff together. But I remember one time a few years ago, I was told that they couldn't go through stuff in regards to me because I was too risky. I was a man was a word they used. I was a liability is what they said. Did they did they define what liability meant? No, I just heard this.

through like this middle person essentially so and she was honestly she was really gutted telling me that like she felt really bad and I was like I'm trying my best to like make use of what I'm doing and like put it in the right direction to some good places that need some support um but like I don't know it just gets blocked so I just think a lot of

I don't know people in that have the power. They're the ones that don't really want to change. I like the traditional side of golf though. Like I don't want that to go away. I like all the things. I don't care if men have their men's only clubs, give them boys only clubs, like have some women's only clubs. I don't know whatever you want to do. Like it doesn't have to be, you know, perfect the whole way around, but like,

But it just needs to adapt a little bit. And so that was all I was trying to do. I would say that would be one. I also think it would be good if the PGA Tour started backing the LPGA Tour or the PGA Tour. The men started supporting the women. And a lot of the players do. They're really for that. But I just think if the...

the people higher up put more effort in towards that it would help. Going through Instagram we saw a little hard launch with your girlfriend so being a female or woman golfer and being part of the LGBTQ plus community what does that representation mean to you? I probably wouldn't have posted other people that I've dated just because I didn't think it was something long lasting I just don't want to post and then have to be like oh where'd they go and now you have to explain that and then you push someone else and it keeps going but with her like she

she's probably the first relationship that I really felt like I could see a long-term thing with and I wouldn't want to ruin that or like make her feel like she wasn't as important as my freaking Instagram. So like it was important for me to do it to show her that she was important

So that's kind of why I did it or mostly why I did it. I don't want to be a person that doesn't post their partner because of that. I would only not post because of my, I don't know, I thought we were going to break up or something like that. But I wouldn't hide someone, you know? Like I've tried really hard on my social media in regards to everything to be like really myself and stick to it. I think my family would like borderline disown me if I just completely changed anyway.

But that's also, you know, a part of it. Was it a little bit, I would say I thought it was going to be a little bit more freakier than it was when I did it. But I think because I was very comfortable with her, it wasn't scary. It was kind of like, you know, whatever happens, happens. I lost immediately. Like, I think in a day I lost like 10.

10 000 followers but she gained like seven or eight thousand followers and i always say we kept it in the families i'm like you know what this this kind of works especially with men hyper sexualizing woman golfers i'm just woman on social media was there a negative reaction to when you came out or did you just not care about it i probably had 99 support so

it was hard to even notice the bad comments. Like some people wrote things like unfollow. I was like, okay, bye. Yeah, pretty much. But like, I don't, I think I've had a pretty good, like I've had pretty good luck with like social media stuff. I think like,

I do credit a lot of the fact that I haven't had a lot of hate because I've always just really tried to be myself. And how are you all celebrating Pride Month this year? We just try to do everything normal like anybody else would because I always feel like if you make a big deal out of it, it becomes a big deal. But it'd be better just to not to blend in, but kind of, because when you just blend it in with maybe your straight friends or something, it doesn't seem like such a big deal.

like shock for them or like it doesn't seem like such a big thing that's in their face. They just see it as like, oh, like they're just totally normal, you know, like they're just doing exactly what me and my husband would do. And so like it's easier for everybody around us to like settle into us too. Last question for you, Tanya. It's what we ask everyone. Who is your good follow? Okay, so one is this guy called Tim Nacky and he just bets everything.

Like he started off by bidding like 10 cents for every follower he has daily on one hand of Blackjack. - Alrighty, ladies, gentlemen, degenerates. It is day one, bidding once in for every follower I've got.

And it's just so entertaining. It's this guy from New Zealand. He's so hilarious. Like he's so quick and witty and like just a good follower, but like he just does it. And then when I was watching, he was up to like, he had like 1.4 million followers or something. He was doing like 100, uh,

130 000 bits and stuff just once a day and all he does is once a day he posts this video where he's like we've got this many followers or something so i'm doing a bit blah blah blah and then he just wins or loses and he has a meltdown or he has a big celebration um and the other ones that i just came across were these guys who do youtube um their names are one of the guys is taco golf

One Sam something. If you look up the dictionary of cooked, this is what it is. I'll come up with your face. For all of the YouTube guys, I feel like they're just really down to earth and their humor is kind of... Like, I think they were...

raised in New Zealand or something so I'm probably sounding really biased when I was a New Zealand guy in this New Zealand group I love New Zealand TV shows so much the humor is just I'm gonna follow all of it well you're incredible thank you for joining us yeah thanks for having me this was actually really fun this was awesome good I could talk for seven more hours but we don't have that kind of time

Welcome back to Good Follow. Thank you again to Tanya for sitting down with us. And now it's time for the marquee games of the week. This weekend in the WNBA, the Lynx are visiting the Seattle Storm and we should be talking more about Skylar Diggins-Smith. Averaging 6.3 assists per game this season, she reached 4,500 career points and is now 15th on the WNBA's all-time assist list.

Then on Saturday, the LA Sparks meet the Dallas Wings, and I'm watching out for De'Erica Hamby. The Paris 2024 Olympian is averaging a double-double this season with just over 19 points and 10 rebounds per game. These picks are brought to you by DraftKings. Visit sportsbook.draftkings.com or find the DraftKings Sportsbook wherever you get your apps.

We want to hear from our fans. Who is your good follow? Send your nominations to at good follow show and tell us why your good follow should be featured on our show. Good follow is brought to you by DraftKings and we will see you all next week. Thanks for hanging out with us.