Hour 2: Eat S**t, Mike Ryan
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This is the Dan Levitar Show with the Stugatz Podcast. ♪

I've made a terrible error here as part of the presenting coverage for the NHL playoffs as the reigning champion team and the cover of that team. The mistake that I have made is you guys do realize that as a show, we have not celebrated nearly enough the fact that Mike Ryan is on the verge of an all-time bad take when it comes to the Panthers acquiring Brad Marchand.

I always make him Marchand, even though it's Marchand, because I always want to make it a little bit extra French, which is correct. Because I always make it Marchand when I see the spelling, but it's Marchand, correct? No, it's Marchand. Yeah, it's Marchand. People definitely say Marchand a lot. I don't know what it actually is. Regardless. And do you call his nickname Marshy or Marchy? Because I say Marchy. I go Marshy. Marshy.

Is it Marchand or is it Marchand? Marchand. Marchand. Marchand. Okay, we can't get agreement on this and I'm going to need it because he's a Panthers legend. We need to get his name right. Such a legend!

He's a legend. Such a legend. Dan, he had the greatest individual performance. Game two, he had the greatest individual performance in Panthers history. I'm not talking about the biggest goal, although the goal was obviously enormous. But he also had a shorty earlier in the game. In a game that, if you don't want to call it must-win fun, have to win down one game to none? Have to. That was a have-to-win game. He had the greatest individual performance in Panthers history.

Let me play again this video of the other night because Ethan spoke for a lot of people with what he sneaks in at the back end of this when the Panthers win in double overtime. You can hear Ethan have a little message for Mike Ryan. Oh, Marchand! Marchand! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Oh my God. Let's go! Let's go! Oh, I can breathe. Mike Ryan, eat s***. Mike Ryan, eat s***.

- Oh, 26 Eastern! - You gotta sing "All I Do Is Win" there. Ethan, spot on. - No, you can't do that. You can't do that if you look like Ethan. You cannot say that if you are Ethan. You cannot sing that and then tell Mike Ryan to eat shit.

when Mike Ryan hired you? I did all of that too. He said in that, I can breathe again. I said that. I sang All I Do Is Win and I told Mike Ryan to eat shit. I was at a different location saying the exact same things as Ethan. That should be a thing that when your favorite team wins, you tell people who hired you to eat shit.

Put it on the poll at Levitard Show. When your favorite team wins, should you tell the people that hired you to eat shit? We've got before Zaslo gets out of here because he's got a meteoric rise on ESPN Radio to take care of. Top five dogs from game three. I know we've all been

waiting for it. You could have gotten that exclusively on Zaslow 2.0, but he gives it to us. He's bringing us the good stuff as an employee here throughout the hockey season of Meadowlark Media. Are you ready for top five dogs from game three? Dominique, are you ready? I don't feel like you're ready for this. I'm ready now. All right.

Number five or O-L-I? No, no, we're just going right into it. Number five. Okay, no foreplay, nothing. Just right into it. Number five. Number five. Top five dogs, also cats, from last night. Okay, dogs and cats. Number four, because they're cats, Dominique. They're my dogs, but they're cats. They're Panthers. Top five dogs. All right, number five. Keep up. Aaron Ekblad. Did you see when he put Conor McDavid on his ass? He was like, he couldn't.

That's right. You look like you never knew how to skate. All right. That's right. That little piece right there. That's classic. That's vintage Zablo right there. That's right. Number four, Nico Mikola. He was your boy. You see at the end of the game, we're close to the end of the game there. Corey Perry's looking for somebody to fight. Nico Mikola turned, laughed, and poked.

pointed at him. Anytime you point and laugh at somebody, laughing at somebody is super disrespectful, but pointing and laughing, that's what makes him my dog. He's number four. Number three, Jonah Gadgivan. Only number three. That's right. It's a great list today. Jonah Gadgivan. Look, Oilers didn't get the memo. They get these hands for free. Two for one all day.

So the hands are for free, two for one all day. That's right. And all night. Maybe they receive the memo after the game. If they're two for one, they're free. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Are they free or are they... All day. All you can eat. But they're also two for one. What part are you not understanding, Tony? They're free and it's two for one and it's all day. Yeah. No, no, I get it now. Number two. Bogo.

Brad Marchand. Florida Panther legend Brad Marchand gets the scoring started less than a minute in. They were still showing the starting lineup graphics on the television screen when Marchand scored that goal to put the Cats up 1-0. Brad Marchand, that's my dog right there. Hold on. Hold on. So we're not even at number one yet.

But we're two games away from all-time bad take from Mike Ryan. Are you guys in agreement that I have not –

this out enough or celebrated enough that he's been really wrong for three rounds and two games? Well, he has backpedaled on he's playing well. He has acknowledged that Marshawn is playing well. At the beginning of the playoffs, he was saying he's not even good. He said he's a bad player. He said he wanted to be a healthy scratch. Now he's just leaning on I won't root for him, but he has played well. He's backtracked. He has no choice. I mean, Marshawn has been the best

player by far for us. He's gotta eat shit. Well, he hasn't been the best player because that's reserved to number one. Tell me. Which of course is my dog Sam Bennett. Oh wow.

how did Bob not even make this list? Let's talk about last night. Alright, 14 goals in the postseason, 12 on the road, but he mixed in one at home last night, of course, and it capped off probably the greatest shift in Florida Panthers history, where he lays a hit on not just one guy, but another guy. He did get the memo, actually, that

they can get those hands for free two for one specials all day and then at the end of that same shift a breakaway where E2, Loyce 3 and said here you take it you take you don't need me you do it on your own and of course he beats Skinner top shelf where Mrs. Moeller keeps the peanut butter and Sam Bennett number one

Dog from last night. Verhage doesn't even make the list. Thank you. Where was Seth Jones on this list? It's not top six, Dominique.

Top five. If it's free, can I get three for one all day? They don't have three arms. It comes in increments of two, four, one. No one on that ice had three arms. No one did. Why are you not understanding? Two hands, it's two for one. There's like eight people fighting at one point. All day. All day. For free. All night as well. Two for one. Zaslo's got to go. He's a big rising star at ESPN Radio. You just saw why, because he's got dogs that are cats, and he's got a top five, and Bob's not even on it. See you later, Pink Man Group.

That is a good one. Pink Man Group is good. Them performing in Vegas with Zazzle.

Somebody said the other day that Rick Carlisle looks like a down-on-his-luck retired Blue Man Group member. That Rick Carlisle has given off a lot of that. Like, tells the young Blue Manners what's what from their past. A lot of Vegas in his past. A lot of long nights. Dirty early Vegas there when the Blue Man Group was coming up with all the toilet paper and the audience shtick.

Rick Carlisle wrote it to great fame. I wanted to ask you guys about Jason Kidd to the Knicks. So New York has its best team in 25 years, a team with expectations. Tom Thibodeau is inarguably the best coach they've had since Pat Riley in terms of results. They keep getting 50 win seasons. They're better than they've been in 25 years. He gets fired. And the idea is bring in somebody who's not that.

So Jason Kidd's not that. But when I think of Jason Kidd, I don't know how you guys regard him as a coach, but having watched the entirety of his career, where he's a college basketball player who's having trouble with drunk driving incidents to being a great point guard that wins a championship by becoming someone who can three-point shoot,

Somehow, one of the few players I've ever seen go from not good shooter to good shooter, where I've seen that arc of his career, has the respect of others as a point guard, and is the player's coach who will do things in his inaugural season, like get a timeout by spilling a soda on the floor on purpose and illegally and getting fined for it. But I don't think of him...

as a take-the-next-step coach, I think of him as somebody that the players will like. Do I have this wrong? No, it feels like he's a guy that will get you to the playoffs, right? He obviously took Luka, Luka took him all the way to the NBA Finals, but it doesn't feel like he's the guy that you bring in to be like, oh, this is the guy that's going to take the ceiling off of what we're doing here and take us to the next level. I've thought a number of times that Jason Kidd's career is over as a coach, and it's never over.

I don't think the next take you to the next level coach is always the coach that you expect. Normally those guys have jobs. So you have to have some projection. And I would argue that a point guard is the type of coach

a former point guard, is the type of coach that a team like the Knicks could use coming off of Thibodeau. Because Thibodeau, and correct me if I'm wrong, I would say the assessment of Thibodeau is he's not a great X's and O's guy. He's a tough, hard-nosed coach who's going to grind his guys down, but he's not going to be the guy. I don't think of Jason Kidd as a great X's and O's guy. He knows the game, but I don't know why it is that you guys would put him in the class of... Look, there were three guys that got this coming up, okay? Point guard...

who might be a coach because he was cerebral. It was Derek Fisher, it was Steve Kerr, and it was Jason Kidd. It was the three of them. Well, I don't think Steve Kerr got it. Steve Kerr was thought of as a good coach when he became a good coach, but I don't think – I mean, Steve Kerr wasn't like running any team that he was on. He wasn't. Steve Kerr was the GM with the Suns, and then him and Derek Fisher both got offers with no coaching experience of five years, $25 million to coach the Knicks and the Warriors. Wow.

But they didn't deserve those jobs or those contracts. They were just two guys. Hey, they're really smart at basketball. Let's hire them. Jason Kidd cut the line the same way. None of them trained as coaches. They were just great as players. Agreed. And I think that if we're going off of how great as a player someone is,

someone was in the type of player that they were, I would think Jason kids fits that category. The only point that I'm trying to make is when you come into this conversation saying, I don't think he's a get you to the next level coach, get you to the next level coaches aren't available. I think it might be unfair for me to tell you to name the guy who's available right now to get because you haven't thought about it, but I think it's

probably pretty hard. I'm going through my mind of like available coaches and trying to think who I know will get you to the next level. And to your point, there was nothing about you said that Steve Kerr skipped the line. He obviously was a get you to the next level coach. At that time, no one thought he was. That's the thing. Mark Jackson, you felt, was the guy, the motivator. He's the preacher, the pastor that's going to get all these guys ready to go. It felt odd.

You're going to get this guy who's a GM who was on the broadcast, and it's like, okay, sure, he was around Popovich, he was around Phil Jackson, but is that going to actually seep in and osmosis turn you into a good coach, and then all of a sudden they're dynastic and great for 10 years? You guys aren't of the belief that there is a coach that exists, a person, anybody, anybody you choose, that is making the Knicks championship-worthy.

based on those same players that they have. Because I feel like that team got its ceiling.

And it's no indictment of that team. You can get to the Final Four. You might even get to the Final Two, but not good enough to win the championship. Not unless somebody gets hurt. Not unless they just happen to be playing games and then Shea Gilgis-Alexander gets hurt. But you tell me, there's a human being that you guys think exists that he will do something with X's and O's, or she will do something. Either gender. Anybody on earth that will make the Knicks appreciably better with that same personnel? Stan Van Gundy.

Can't disagree with that. Man, those are two big failures on Stan's resume. The last two, Detroit and New Orleans, neither of which has recovered from what happened there. Pistons got a little bit, you know, Pistons are on their way.

Okay, the Pistons did recover. Shh, quietly. Well, this is the thing about this that is really stupid. The Pistons are just a great example. I will remind you that it wasn't but a couple of seasons ago that the highest paid coach in the NBA was Pistons coach Monty Williams, who got fired and then the team got good. And so when we do this stuff with leadership, like, it is pretty dumb to think, I think it's pretty dumb to think that I'm going to get someone who's appreciably better than Tom Thibodeau.

I don't think that's pretty dumb. I do think that to your first point, because of their defensive deficiencies, I think it's probably unlikely that they are going to win a championship barring any sort of like wild happenstance or stroke of luck. But I do think that the small changes can make a team appreciably better. And I

I don't know what those changes are because I'm not a coach, but I think the course of a season and the course of a playoff run, the ability to develop a culture that can adapt, I think is one of the things that we're solving for in a lot of these pro sports now is the teams that can adapt more quickly. And OKC is a team because of their roster depth and because of the intelligence and flexibility of their players is that they can adapt.

within the game from game to game. And that's the thing that we saw that the Knicks were unable to do. Even though they have some pretty flexible players, it didn't seem like they did a whole bunch. Like their big move was to change the starting lineup when they're already down, way down in that final series. They just didn't seem to have any other moves. And so...

I get the idea that we want to bring somebody that we think will be willing to try a move, do something, knock a cup on the court, get me a timeout. I don't know anything. But even if you think someone's going to make them appreciably better than Thibodeau, Jason Kidd? That's the thing. Jason Kidd's been like – he's always been attached to somebody great, right? In Milwaukee, he had Giannis. In Dallas, he had Luka. He was an assistant coach who was there with LeBron. Like –

You start seeing all these trends and like, is Jalen Brunson that guy who can carry a team? He's done it. He's taken him to the Eastern Conference Finals. But is Jason Kidd the X's and O's guy? No. Is he the motivator? Sure. Okay. But so was Thibodeau. And like, now where are we? Why are we separating those things though? Like if one can only be an X's and O's guy and one of them, that's all I got.

I got no motivation in me. I can either be Tony Robbins or I can be Pete Carroll. It's relatability, right? That's what you're looking for. When you're going for a Thibs type to a former player, it's like maybe you're looking for someone who relates to the players more. Yeah.

Is that how simplistic we're doing it? I don't know. But just when it comes to leadership, I'll get off of this in a second, but it seems like a pretty important job. And we really do seem to like the idea that some leader has an idea that other leaders don't have. We like to believe in that. And I just keep asking you. So Jason Kidd's the one we're doing it with, right? Okay, so Jason Kidd.

kids got whatever magical elixir it is that Dominique thinks or anybody thinks will make the Knicks better than the Pacers because they have some adjustments in the margins that can be made to take advantage over a seven game series of Pacer weaknesses and also am I crazy or he's still under contract with Dallas so like how is that going to turn into are you going to give picks you're going to give plate you're going to do something and make a trade for Jason Kidd when you have deficiencies on your roster and you're going to be giving them away to then get a

coach another average trade oh boy what gets people excited as a knicks like i saw that patino said hell no when asked the other day yeah but you know jay wright i feel like would have got people happy jay wright already said like i'm retired i don't want to do it those rumors and out there like it's it's not happening but like man i would have been excited for that if i was so those are just names though right like i've seen the whole patino thing i saw it in new york i've seen it it i know what it is the 90s are back though dan across the world

I get that they're just names, and I get your point. I don't disagree with you, Dan, but that's all we got. Normally in an interview, there'll be a series of interviews which includes the coach then giving their vision to the ownership and the decision makers. No one's going to give us a press conference where they give us our vision. We're just going based on what we know of guys. You got a big name. We know you've had success on other. That's what we're based on. It just seems kind of silly, though. I got an X's and O's guy, or I got a motivator. That's how I'm analyzing leadership.

What if the Knicks do to the Heat what the Heat did to the Knicks? We stole Riley? Dan, if you're Spoh, do you say no?

No reason to stay down here. - I don't know why it is that we do this. Forgive me for ever bringing it up because I did get ensnared in recycled Jason Kidd talk. - Bo would look good in New York. - I wish instead to detour into what it is that it felt like Dominique was trying to and successfully convincing the group of before the show.

Correct me if I have the argument wrong, but you said that marriage is... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Be careful with my boy. Happily married? Look at that wedding ring. You see any panky rings on my boy? Remember what Juju said yesterday in the post? We don't want to make more work for him after the show. Oh, no, no, no. You're not going to make any work for me. That's the thing is that...

I'm not concerned. This is a funny little detour. So I had to tell my son that I'm not concerned. So they were flying down on a different flight for me, my wife and my three kids. And so my son texted me, hey, dad, I was like, what's up? He said, I think you got some competition. I was like, what are you talking about? He said, mom's laughing a little hard at the Uber driver's jokes. And I was like, I'm not worried. And he said, but his name is Luis Enriquez.

He put like 10 S's on the text. And I was like, what? I love that. And he said, Luis. How old is your son taunting you that your wife is flirting with the Uber driver? He's 12. And then he was like. You got to watch Luis. He said, mom must be pretty because it's a shock that this Uber driver is flirting with her when she has two annoying kids. And I texted back, there's three of you. I said, annoying. Annoying.

I was like, got me. You got me. I had to admit, I was a little proud of it. His little jokes make a lot of people laugh. They mostly get on my nerves. That was a solid run of jokes. So he was very much listening to what was going on in the car. So I told my wife about it later, and she said he had his AirPods on the whole time.

She noticed that, huh? Everyone noticed Luis. And anytime you get into his Uber, which smells like cologne and feet...

Tell me I'm wrong. I think if he's spitting game and trying to do his work early, right? We talk about getting in the post and doing your work early before you actually have to do any moves, right? That's the key to a post game. I think Luis has so much game that he can overcome the smell of feet and cologne in his car. Are we sure this is not our Luis? Because he wasn't here yesterday. He does have game. It's not Luis. No. Luis. There's a difference between Luis and Luis. I do believe I call him Luis.

Your limited fake skipper is so remarkably limited and not useful. It's got range, Dan. He uses it in a bunch of different places. It's always, I do believe, and then it's foghorn leghorn. There's nothing to the impersonation. It stinks. Okay, now, Dan LeBretard. Yes.

It stinks. That's how he says your name. Come on. But he does have trouble with Latin names, so it does become Louis. Hello, Luis. Or Luis. So the thing that Dan was trying to get to before I sidetracked us with the story. It was a 2012 Washington Post article. To be clear on what the starting point of this story is. Well, the starting point was, I don't want to put anybody's business out there, but someone was saying that they were celebrating their fourth wedding anniversary, and then that person...

also said out of 10 and I was like, what?

I was like, what? You got a plan for it? But what I didn't understand was the person was saying that they've been together for 10 years, but only married for four. So that's what got me down the track of like, it's like you got a lease. So I Googled it and there was an article that I read in there. And then it made a compelling argument for reducing the divorce rate by having this little, you just, all right, we're going to lock this in for five years. Let's lock this in for five years.

We discuss it at the end of five. Lock it in for 10. We check it out again. It's like a team option. Contract year. Renegotiate. Renegotiate. I mean, you got it. Sometimes you're working out. It's like a contract year trying to keep her. Yeah. You got to get in shape that year. Refinance. Yeah. The vacations get a little bit better. You put in a little extra work.

In all areas. But then you sign that deal, and then what's the next year? Are you hungry? Are you good enough like Ray Lewis? Or are you Dominique Foxworth saying on a Thursday night in Cleveland, you know what? I don't care this much. No, I'm crying in the tunnel on a Thursday night in Cleveland for my marriage. I ain't losing that. I got a guts to have it.

I don't know what the divorce rate is. Is it 50% still on the divorce rate? And the other 50% aren't going great all the time. How do you know? Does everybody end up in a terrible marriage? What percentage of marriages are really happy? See, this is where I was headed with this. So 50% fail outright, we can't be around each other anymore. But some percentage of the next 50%, we can all agree, are also failures. I'm going 20% are happy. I don't know what the number is.

is. I'm sorry I made it everybody, but just know that if this were an American product, we'd recall it, okay? Because it's got like a 50% failure rate and then 25%. I'm not sure it works so well over here either. So whatever the numbers are, though, Dominique is saying, let's rethink this whole thing based on a 2012 Washington Post article, and instead of making them lifetime contracts, make them leases. Okay.

Make the marriage contract that you get at the courthouse renewable every five years. I mean, you can pick whatever duration you want. But I personally, I signed a lifetime deal. I'm out here signing a lifetime deal because I got to. That's what I needed. I already know. I gots to have. Got to have a good number, though. I mean, you just made marriage a Honda.

I mean, my marriage is not a Honda. I'll tell you that much right now. You can get a much better deal if you just commit to the long term.

This is your financial advice here? It's sound. It's sound. The psychology of it, though, is a little weird because I do whatever my wife and I have some disagreement, it never even crosses my mind because it's permanent. This is it. If we fight, disagree, like, all right, but this is it. You better figure it out. I better figure it out. But we're all the happy ones. We're that 20%, all of us here. We're all in that 20%. We're happy. Oddball next.

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Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan. Now if you've been listening to the show a lot lately, you've heard so much playoff talk. Playoff hoops down here in South Florida were especially enamored with playoff hockey. It's not just limited to the playoffs. Motorsports, tennis, golf. It's truly one of the best times ever.

in the sporting calendar. And with the weather outside warming up, it's just perfect to hop in a pool, maybe grill up some food, but most certainly crack open some Miller Lights. I just described a pretty perfect day, didn't I? And it culminates with Miller time. There's something about a perfect grilling day. The sun's out, friends show up, and that

Miller Lite.

Great taste. 96 calories. Go to MillerLite.com slash Dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Cheers to 50 years of Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Don Levitard. John, can you rate my Al Pacino from that billiard scene in Carlito's Way if I do it for you? I think it's pretty good. Yeah. Stugatz. You think you're big time?

But you're going to die! Big time! That is on my infamous scale of 1 to 10. That's a 7.6. Solid. Good job, Dan. Good job. That's a suey nominee right there. This is the Dan Labatar Show with the Stoogads. ♪

We got ourselves an NBA Finals, ladies and gentlemen, because the Oklahoma City Thunder went ahead and tied it all up. It's 1-1 now as the series shifts to Indiana. Was there fear that the patients would run away with it and go up 2-0 and then say, hey, this series is over? I wouldn't say there was fear, but definitely there was fear.

They were a lot. The crowd is a lot less confident last night. Like when they were up and the Pacers make a three, you start to hear that murmur of like, wait a second, we've watched this movie again. So is he, one of the things people like to say is that, you know, success breeds copycats. And so our producers were wondering of these two teams, the Pacers and the thunder, which success would be easier for other teams to copycat. Hmm.

That's a good question. Like, so let's look at what these models are, right? So we've got OKC, which is very much a one man sort of centerpiece in terms of offense and everything flows through him by far the best player. And,

Again, won the MVP, so you could argue best player in the league right now with quality pieces around him, a bunch of two-way players, little freakish athlete in size there in Chet Holmgren. The other side being the Indiana Pacers, more of a style team, right? They run, they play like Tyrese Halliburton, right? But it's also the coaching that helps you get there. It's also the personnel, three-point shooters, a couple of two-way players. To me, I think the Oklahoma City one's harder to replicate.

Because I think I'm talking about the quality of the player at the top. So you need to have MVP level guy. You need to have Kobe. You need to have SGA. You need to have, I don't know, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, that type of player at the top. And then with proper coaching, with proper people around you, build that team that can operate around that one guy. That takes a lot, right? That takes chemistry. That takes right decisions on the players.

The other one is very much a style situation. It is running. It is, again, not easy because Tyrese Halliburton's skill set is not similar to every other point guard out there. But I would say that's easier to replicate because you can create the style and create the pieces around him without meeting that one person that's best in the league overall. Like, I know it's difficult to find a quality point guard of Halliburton's caliber, but find the best player in the league? Yeah.

Let me tell you, while I hear you about SGA, the best player in the league is definitely not easy to find, right? These guys are rare. But I think Tyrese Halliburton might be even rarer because we're talking about a pure point guard in today's NBA who is of a star caliber, not a backup, not a guy who just comes out and facilitates.

like star caliber. It's almost impossible to find because right now in our development system, if you are a smart player with handles and can shoot, guess what they're making you do? They're making you play it, become a scorer. They're making you become...

SGA, who, by the way, is the starting point guard for the Oklahoma City Thunder. We don't think about that because he does lead them in scoring. And so for me, I think it's way harder. I know you're talking about the Pacers' style. The Pacers' style emanates from Tyrese Halliburton. The coaching that Rick Carlisle does is...

He's able to do it because he has Tyrese Halliburton. If he had a different point guard, I guarantee we wouldn't see Rick B as Lazza fair with their situation. And so to me, it's so rare to find a guy like Halliburton who's legitimately elite and desirous of

playmaking, but if he needs to score, if he needs to shoot, he's really good at that too. In many ways, like there's always an SGA in the league. Yeah. I guess that's where I could, I could lean your way is that I could replicate the style of play that Indiana does with the right pieces, but not at this level, right? Not at this caliber to get me to the finals. There's been a lot of good run and gun teams that are fun to watch, but

Yeah, you're saying to get that to this level, you need Tyrese Halliburton. And that's harder to find because there's more SGA. I'll give you that. I will say that the formula seems like it makes it's been done before more with the way that the Thunder have done it. I just find it hard to replicate because you again still have to have the best player in the league.

they're both really hard to replicate. Like, let's make it clear. Like, Oh yeah, why don't we just do that? there's reasons like, cause you don't have SGA and you don't have Tyrese Halliburton. I guess my thing is the basketball factory that is youth basketball, college basketball, and even early NBA basketball puts guys like that in that mold. Oh,

Oh, you're good? You're going to be like SGA. We're going to feed you like SGA. I'm not saying you're going to be as good as, but that's the model in which we start to craft your game from a very young age. And I used to say this about Steve Nash years and years ago. When you think about the great passers, right? Even if you go to NBA history, like the great...

pass first guys, guys that made plays for others. Most of them weren't good shooters to start with, right? It's almost an evolution thing, right? Why are you such a good passer? Cause I didn't like shooting cause I wasn't good at it. So I do all of this, right? Like magic Johnson wasn't a great shooter, right? But we love doing all this. Um, and,

But when they back off of you, you've got no choice but to learn how to shoot. Sure. Exactly. Jason Kidd is another one, right? Like they might get to the place because they're great players and they develop into that. But the essence of like a 10 year old Magic Johnson, a 12 year old Jason Kidd was, yeah, I'm doing this.

Because I can't do this. Steve was always a great shooter who chose to pass, which is weird, which is weird because a, like if you were such a great shoe, why don't you just keep shooting as a 50, 40, 90 guy? Why are you averaging only 16, 18 points? But the other part of it is it's like,

Oh, I need to shoot. Okay, I'll do it. And like when the necessity comes and then how do you guard that guy? Right. Yeah. And that's, that's Halliburton closer and guys like that. Like I said, few and far between most of the guys. If you're a good shooter, you're going to be encouraged to shoot the ball. Yeah.

I will say that like Tyrus Halliburton is an easier guy, not necessarily to replicate, but to wrap your mind around, oh, okay. That's a team that you could say was led by a similar leader. You just mentioned the Phoenix suns there. The one that's interesting to me, SGA, like I get what he is right in terms of head, the snake leader for a team score as a, from a guard position, but like how he got there and you know, whether we can see that coming again for somebody else, I,

I don't think we can because the dude, you know, was number 11 in the draft, fell that far, was traded after his rookie season. That's probably the one where you're just like, wait a second. Most of these guys who are MVP are not traded after their rookie season. But I don't know if this is a question of how we find the next SGA or do we sort of try to figure out what this SGA really is? Because

in my mind, I very much point to the 06 finals with Dwayne Wade, right? In his third year, everybody saw this guy coming out of no. Oh, wow. This guy's great with SGA, a little bit different, but it's also like, I don't know. We didn't expect it. And so now that we're seeing it, we're sort of wrapping our minds around what it could be. Well, I got to give credit to the Clippers because the,

day that like right when they did that Paul George trade, they were telling everybody, man, we would have given up 10 more picks just to keep SGA. Like, so they knew, they knew he was special. Did they know he was this special? Maybe not, but they knew for sure. He was someone like they had no qualms. They gave up a boatload of rap picks that the thunder is still feasting off of. And they literally lost no sleep over that.

but they lost sleep over losing SGA. Wasn't it Patrick Beverly who told, who says that he told him when he was in the Clippers practice, like you can be Kobe good, like you're that level of good. And maybe that's where the Clippers are just like, Hey, maybe he's right. That story is according to whom? According to Patrick Beverly. Oh,

I think SGA has confirmed it, though. Yeah. That's like when LeBron said, I turned on the TV and I saw Kobe warming up and I said, oh, he's about to have like 80 today. Well, I mean, again, if SGA confirms it, I believe him. But we'll see. He's a nice guy. He's a nice Canadian boy.

It's the polite thing to do, right? Speaking of the polite thing to do, the polite thing to do is to acknowledge that he scored more points in the first two games of the finals debut than the one and only Allen Iverson who had 48 in his debut. So one would think he had a huge advantage

uh early lead on that and so we gotta ask this uh izzy who would you take sga or let's start with oh one iverson i think they call this like an elevator series right so if you open up the elevator and it's like oh duane wade's there uh do i go with him or do i take the guy standing with sga right yeah let's start let's start with iverson look because that's the guy he just passed

All right. I'm definitely taking SGA. I think what, you know, obviously size factors in. He's a better defender, probably a more efficient scorer. And yeah, I think it's just a new evolution of today's game. No knock on Iverson. I'll just take SGA. Counterpoint. SGA didn't step over someone's carcass. Yes. If you want the all-time highlight, yeah, you got Iverson. All right. So everyone, just so you know, I know where Izzy's weak points are. It's like jujitsu.

SGA or 06 Dwayne Wade? Oh, man. Look, I'll be 100% honest. In terms of knowing how you're going to get it, where you're going to get it, start the possession. I know this dude's good. It's SGA over Dwayne Wade. Like, it is. Wow.

Wow. Dwayne led the league in scoring one time, but it wasn't really what he wanted or needed to do. Like SGA, it's just part of what he does. Like he's going to give you 35 and there's really nothing you can do about it. And in today's game, like I think it's just now Dwayne will give you other stuff. He'll block more shots. He'll probably get more steals defensively. Maybe a couple of pick sixes that SGA didn't. But in terms of like affecting winning games,

I think they're both right there. So maybe it's Pridger of the moment, but I'm taking Kerr and SGA. Okay, man. I didn't have Izzy and Martino cards. You didn't think I was flexible like that, huh? Absolutely not. All right. Let's take it up a notch. What about 2000 Kobe? Ooh, Frobie. So that's Kobe against the Pacers in the finals. Kobe to Shaq. Alioub against the Blazers. This is going to sound crazy. Going to sound crazy. Come on. What the hell does SGA look like with Shaq?

Look, I'm going to tell you why. I think Kobe was a more talented player. He was certainly a more explosive athlete, right? At that moment. But the maturity, I think SGA got a lot more maturity here, man. Obviously he's older. I am also like, look,

Here's the main thing. I don't know what his numbers would be, but I know if SGA was playing with Shaq, Shaq wouldn't be mother effing that dude like the way he did Kobe. Right. So I'm going to stay with Shaq. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm going to stay with SGA over Froby. Let's go. One more. How about Michael Jordan? Nineteen ninety one. His first final. This is where I might be stepping off the elevator.

I think you've got deep boy level MJ and, you know, one, two dribble pull up and just, yeah, I have to get off the elevator here. A spectacular move, a spectacular move by Michael Jordan. Yes. All right. Well, last one.

Steph Curry, 2015. I mean, I'm already off the elevator, but I'll jump out the window for, for Steph Curry. I think I'm going to take him and that whole universe he creates just with his skillset. This is again, this is what I'll tell people like, especially people are like, Oh, he didn't play well in 2015. He put Deli in the hospital. For real. Like he hospitalized the man. Yeah. So, so there it is. I'm shocked that you, me and Michael Jordan are now on a, what is it? A three-way date. We're just in,

elevator what are you talking about all right just hanging out an elevator