Hour 2: Good Bad Shows That Are Good Because They're Bad
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Jamel, I do believe that we have not arrived yet, you and I, in a space where I'm okay with any idea of it being normal. That I just asked you about the last eight days and the assassination attempt isn't something that was within the last eight days of what it is. Oh, was that in the eight days? No, but I'm not even, I'm saying, I'm not even,

blaming you. I just think that we're making new things normal in a way that just it can't be. Like, people are going to get worn out the next five months. Like, it's not...

It's going to test a lot of sanity. Well, I think that's part of the reason why we're having so many of these conversations because people are worn out. It's that, you know, I wish people did understand the gravity of project 2025, but every time they hear Trump and he might do something dangerous now, it's just like dead air to them. They've heard it too many times. And there's a part of people who don't believe that he would actually do some of these things. And, and,

As I've said to many people in private conversations, see, the first go-round was just a test run. And understand that a lot of the people who were positioned in his administration

won't be there now. And some of those people, while I certainly detest many of them in their beliefs and methodology, they at least did kind of believe in that government needs to run a certain way, that there needs to be governance overall. This time around, if Trump is elected, he will not have those same safety guards in place. Those guardrails will not be there. So literally, if it comes in here and it comes out of here, it's going to be legislation, particularly since

He has the Supreme Court that that's his Supreme Court, and he is possibly going to get two more appointments. So there's really nothing to stop him from going straight into the path of dictatorship. And I think we just have this very naive idea in our mind that somehow some system, some person is going to come with a cape on and save us from ourselves and save us from our own apathy. And it's like, no, we have to be the heroes in our own story.

We have to save ourselves. If we do not save ourselves, there are no systems in place that are going to prevent the most dastardly and extreme outcomes from happening. I'm not saying that to be alarmist. I'm saying that to be real. And, you know, my fear with putting Kamala Harris on the ballot this close out to the election is that that energy that we just saw from the media directed at Joe Biden about his health, his cognitive ability,

it will be about different topics, but all that energy is going to shift to Kamala Harris. To your point, we've reached the point in the plot where there is literally nothing depraved that Trump could do at this point to get that same coverage

coverage of media attention. It just says everything to me about our politics, that the president that has accomplished all these things could not beat a convicted felon, could not beat somebody who is credibly found liable for rape.

could not be someone who has been accused of raping a teenage girl, could not beat somebody who had tried to overthrow the government, could not beat somebody who called for his own, who was happy if his own vice president when he was president would be hanged. Like, none of these things have been disqualifying factors. Just to your point, we've not only normalized the type of candidate that Trump is, which is

one of the most, if not the most incompetent in history and unqualified in history. We've not only normalized that, but our reaction to me is what's most dangerous about it is that it doesn't even move the meter for us anymore. And that is scary.

Jamal, I think we can agree that Trump becoming president the first time was in response to a black man being president for eight years, correct? Yeah, I think that is absolutely correct. So let's say that Kamala does become president of the United States, given that what we saw on January 6th. What do you think would be the reaction from the American public once that happens?

Well, before, you know, many people that are, you know, far more expert at these things than I am have suggested this already, is that before she can even get to the ballot, there is an expectation or at least a fear or concern, however you want to label it, that Republicans will challenge Joe Biden being off the ballot. They want him on the ballot. So they're going to challenge her even being there. Right. So to even run for president. So I expect there's going to be a whole lot of legal nonsense that happens.

before if Kamala is the chosen candidate, before she can even get there. And my hope is that the Democrats have anticipated that. But to your point, let's just say that she is elected.

If Donald Trump was their first response, I hate to see what their second one is. Because the reality is that I guess maybe I've lived here too long. Maybe I've been black too long. Maybe I've been in America too long. Any of those combinations of things, it is just in my mind

as of this moment, hard for me to compute this country actually electing a black woman as president. But even if I want to take myself that far and have hope that that can happen, because certainly there are a lot more older black people than me who have seen way more than I have that could never have imagined Barack Obama. But let's just say that that happens. This isn't going to be a signal for conservatives or the Republicans or the far right or however you want to label them to then say, maybe we should

perhaps get this stench of Donald Trump officially out of our party. This is not going to be some watershed moment. This is not going to be some soul searching that happens. This is going to be them digging harder, more extreme into the things that they already do. So the response is coming. And at every point in history, we have seen that whenever there is tremendous progress that has a hope

of America actually living up to what's in the brochure, the backlash and the intensity of it is so fierce and so unrelenting that it doesn't undo the progress or the direction, but it makes it even harder for that progress to be seen fully through.

You don't need my help to articulate these things, but if I were to condense your viewpoints here, can it be said that in a panic, the Democrats, is this an oversimplification to say that in a panic, the Democrats have now thrown a black woman toward the racist, sexist party, and that's not a winning position? Yeah, I mean, I would say that, and this is no, I want people to understand this. This is no reflection of what I think

VP Harris's abilities are, I think she's fully capable of being president and not just a president, a great president. Not only does she have the resume that supports that, I think she has the demeanor. I think she understands things. She's very in-depth and astute about foreign policy and all those things that most Americans are concerned about. Like I have no doubt that the country would be in good hands.

I guess my opinion about whether or not this will work is based off my opinion about where we are in America. It is more about how I feel about where this country is in this moment, more so than how I feel about her. And I guess part of me is already bracing

And for all of the racist and misogynistic narratives that are about to suddenly come to light, I've seen them already. I won't repeat any of them because I don't want to give that kind of stuff life. But the shift is about to happen where they are going to analyze, as they should for a lot of presidential candidates,

or any presidential candidate, they're going to analyze everything she's done since kindergarten. Everything she's done, I'll go back even further, since she left the womb. And some of those narratives and some of those tropes are going to remind me about probably the worst elements about what this political cycle tends to bring out. I've spent time with her. Like, she's a lovely person and she's genuine and she's real and she's funny. I mean, you know, you can call me biased if you want, but no, I will not forget the fact that

While running for a presidential campaign, she texted me on my wedding day to wish me and my husband good luck and to say that, like, hey, I believe in you guys. It was a very positive message. I can't go unchecked. No, no, no. Contextually, you might have thought you were covered, but that was just some extra sauce on it and you had to be called out.

You know what? Y'all won't let me be great. Y'all won't let me live. I'm just trying to add content to the program. That's what you have me on for. I'm giving you content. Do you know how pissed we're going to be if meteorologists keep striking at the same success rate, but all of a sudden we're paying like $10 a month for it?

Because right now, hate for meteorologists, that's bipartisan. That reaches across the aisle. Because there's no accountability for these dudes and girls getting it wrong all the time. But now all of a sudden you're taking that away for free and we've got to pay for it? There's going to be a reckoning!

Jamel, good seeing you. I see what we see at the heart of it. I feel like you're going to be out there campaigning now because now that you know about weather and porn. I need to know. I need to know where the vice president stands on porn. I need her to like. I need the platform. Where's the website where I can look up the platform? Not the porn, the platform on porn. It's Jamel Hill on YouTube. Thank you, Jamel. That's where I can find it.

That was your friendly April Reef Brady.

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I was getting beat up over the weekend on my one and only acting appearance ever on a show, on the show Ballers.

uh of the rock and on max that uh is regarded as one of the great bad shows of all time i'd put entourage in there i'd put power in there i think a lot of people like power empire uh there are a lot of nominees caven sullivan was born and like a couple months later entourage signed off

And now he's playing professional sports. Let's play for the people. This is what qualifies me to talk about all things in film and thespianism. This one appearance I have that has put me in the Screen Actors Guild. No, no, no. Don't want to have to negotiate with this guy. You won't have to. What is the end game here, though? Agent, broadcaster, coach? Yeah, you're such a star. Why not own a damn team? Why yet?

Well I figured Venus and Serena could do it. I wanna piece of the dolphins like that. Magic and Jordan did it. Getting your profit off the crop ain't enough. You wanna own the whole damn plantation.

Now I know you've been up and running. Who is this asshole? You know, why don't you give it a rest, Reggie? Excuse me, boys. Duty calls. 14 hours that took. How many cigars did you go through? So many cigars. It was really, I mean, it was 14 hours. It was like a dozen cigars. I'm not even making that up. Brought Listerine? It made me sick. I was disgusting. I smelled terrible. Is that the dude from the Great White Hype? Uh,

The reason I bring it up, though, is because as an entree to a asking you guys, what is the best bad television show of all time? Because Entourage is now celebrating 20 years. And I think looking back on it, many of us have regrets about ever liking that show. Yep. Yep. Cosign.

And I thought it was great, too. But TV, like it was at the beginning of what it did help usher in this golden age of television because it became a sensation and bigger and bigger actors became a part of it. And then the the preconceived notions about resigning your career to doing television started to drop away. And now you have the biggest stars on the planet doing television shows. After that show, Jeremy Piven could have made his choice, you would have thought, to TV.

Because it was the biggest carry. Ari Gold was the biggest character going in television at the time. As HBO was changing television because The Sopranos and some of the best stuff on television was coming from HBO. But are you guys, the reason I want to bring up some subject matter here as it relates to Twisters opening at

$80 million instead of the expected $40 million. And Deadpool and Wolverine in its original trailer produced more views because of the enthusiasm than anything in the history of YouTube. These two characters coming together. And I am sitting at home on my television ensnared Carlitos way.

- You were sitting on your television? - I'm sitting in front of the television, yes. Now I've tried to get my streaming service to come straight through my ass while I sit on television. But I'm watching Carlitos Way. I'm not going to the theater. I'm getting sucked into another showing of heat.

on one of the HBO channels. I'm so excited for Heat 2. I'd want to talk about it, but Bill Simmons is probably already. Yeah, we'll get to the Heat 2 show when that movie actually does come to fruition. But I was in line in a cow costume for Twisters 2. I went to the theater for it. I went to 4DX, which means the seat moves and you get sprayed with wind and water. And I got to tell you,

It didn't get off to the greatest start. Slow. You know, they're trying to get you to care about the characters. But I kept wondering for, you know, 15 minutes, the hell is Glenn Powell? And I wasn't the only one in that theater that was wondering that. Because when Glenn Powell arrived on the screen, cheers from the entire theater. Yes, this man of charisma and good looks. What a jawline is here to save this movie. And after he did...

Save the movie? We were off to the races. Really enjoyed it. Could have done with more cows. In retrospect, the AC was broken in my theater. Not a great decision on the cow costume, but it did allow for me to have a deadpan conversation where my wife and I are waiting in the line for candy, in which inflation's actually caught up to. By the way, a bottle of water's still like $6, but it didn't seem that ridiculous when everything else is so expensive. But a guy came up to us, and he's like,

You guys seeing twisters? They're just deadpan. No, what's that? In a cow costume. In a cow costume. And then I told them I was watching Inside Out. You briefly mentioned Heat and Heat 2, and I think that the audience and ourselves would be remiss if we didn't mention Miami Heat tonight are playing for the Summer League Championship at 8 p.m.

We've long said Pat Riley won more championship before he rides off into the sunset. It's tonight the night. They do get a ring for this. There is precedent for one. I saw yesterday. I was like, oh, tomorrow. I mean, I saw yesterday that today at 8 p.m. they play in the championship. And I was like, man, Billy's going to make fun of this. So we check that off. It's always been something. I didn't. It's always been something that I've never. I've always seen it as a sign. You don't want to be playing in this summer championship game.

Because it's all like some teams have. I remember when the Kings were bad, them really celebrating this, and teams do get championship rings. This is not a great sign. It's a big knife with a sweater. What? How many other people were wearing costumes? Just my wife and I. We really missed the mark.

when it came to the people that might have tied the cows to the twisters just because in the original 1996 film, there is one cow. Common misconception that it was two cows. No. Quite famously, same cow, same cow.

So there was a moment in the movie in Twisters where there's a tornado that's about to hit a rodeo. This is not a spoiler. You can gather this from the trailer. So my wife and I are thinking, it's our moment. There's a bunch of cows at this rodeo. Is that an elbow and udder that you're using with your left hand? There was another moment where I got too hot in this costume. I'm like, I'm going to have to say something. The AC is broken in here.

And so I got up from my seat and I walked down in the middle of the movie. Not everybody, I guess, had seen me make my entrance. So that was a lot of extra attention that I wasn't necessarily... You didn't want the extra attention. I wanted to dress as a cow, but I kind of thought other people would be into this. You should have said, hey, movie theater worker, we're looking for air and we need more...

It took you a while to get that one up. My wife is having a cow over there. We've got to have this AC over there. No, no, no, no. But I will say, it was a fun popcorn movie. It was a fun summertime action movie of a bygone era. I'm stunned that it doubled. Look, yesterday, between Carlito's Way and Heat, I stumbled upon the original Twister.

Or Twisters. I don't even remember whether the original was... Much higher body count in this one. I couldn't believe that Philip Seymour Hoffman was in it. Food! I didn't have any recollection of Philip Seymour Hoffman being in the original. This is why I'm not Oklahoma Sooners, Cap. Thank you for your great memory on this subject. I didn't have the recall to remember all things about this movie.

That a disaster movie in 2024 that you would dress up as a cow for it and that it would double expectations when it's a really silly movie that only people remember what happens if a cow gets caught in a tornado. Well, that's what happens. It spins all over the place. I thought there were hundreds because I was surprised to see one. No, it's just it's the one same cow that the owner of the Milwaukee Brewers in Atlanta Hawks informs us of. She was also in Lost Boys. She married.

How'd the cow do? In this one? Yeah. I'm not going to spoil anything. And you may miss it. Blink and you might miss the one cow. And it's not like your conventional spotted cow. So that also makes it a little bit less fun. They could have used more cows. In trying to correct. Solid brown cow here? Yeah. Oh, boy. I need more cow. Chocolate milk. I need more cow.

Who is that? That's Christopher Walker. Sean Connery. I need more cow. It sounded like Sean Connery was there. I got a fever. And I need more cow. Should have started saying that in the theater. I got a fever.

But the expectation is that this storm will die out and dissipate a little bit because Deadpool and Wolverine is coming out, which I'm also going to the theater for. Costume? No costume for this one, but we do get a popcorn bucket for this, so I'm excited about that. The popcorn bucket can, I guess, just replace that. But a lot of people have this multiverse fatigue.

It's been dubbed that. I am one of them. I am kind of checking out on these Marvel movies because there are no real consequences anymore. Someone can die in this universe and they'll just sprout up in another one. No real consequences. So I'm hoping that a tongue-in-cheek approach to saying what everyone is thinking about the multiverse, this is the right movie at the right time. Deadpool will mock the whole thing. Ryan Reynolds can mock the whole thing. In fact, there's plenty of that

in the trailer. Now a lot of people are upset that the trailers are showing too much. So much so that Marvel has announced maybe just one trailer for movies henceforth because this has given away a lot of the goods. There's a lot of spoilers. When you start opening multiverses, it's a can of worms, Dan. I've got a couple of questions for you guys based on what it is that is happening in this realm. Could you mention nostalgia that has surprised me about Twisters making a reappearance?

Why wouldn't Beverly Hills Cop 4 traffic in the same thing of bringing together Taggart and Judge Reinhold? Reinhold. There's a D. Bringing together the old gang to—Beverly Hills Cop 3 was an abomination. I saw good reviews for that. Not Beverly Hills 3. Beverly Hills Cop 3, I enjoyed in the amusement park, but I was also like 12.

Oh, my God. So bad. I understand it was bad. Killed the franchise. I understand it was bad, but I heard that this direct-to-Netflix one got good reviews. I'm getting to it. I have not seen it yet, but I would assume that Eddie Murphy making a return would be something that people would buy in on. But I ask you when you stop using him or someone like him as a barometer for whether you'll check in on their choices, given what he and De Niro have done the last few years, where there's just...

so much crud that you don't actually want to see Eddie Murphy in anything because it hasn't aged well. Yeah, I'm not one of those...

I guess Pluto Nash, we've decided this guy isn't going to make the greatest choices. So I don't know if I ever lumped him into the class of I have to watch whatever this person does because they make great choices. I don't think he's ever been in that. So whenever Eddie Murphy does something that is received well, then I'll check it out because all too often it's received poorly and then I generally...

end up agreeing with the none of you guys have interest in this none of you guys have no i do i'm gonna watch it i saw it i saw it yeah i thought it was really good yeah i really liked the fact that they did bring back john astin and judge reinhold and paul rising in this movie so yeah i enjoyed that but i found it to be a really good movie i don't think twisters did well because of the nostalgia portion of it i think twisters did well because of glenn powell

I think everybody really loves Glenn Powell right now and he's bringing people to the theater. I have no interest in that movie. I never saw Twister, the original. You don't have to disparage the original. But I never saw it. I was born a year before it came out and I had no interest in seeing it. And so now,

I was a young person. I'm like, hey, Glenn Powell seems cool. He's a good leading man. I'm interested in seeing this movie. It's that simple. You don't have to see the original for this one to make sense. It's a totally standalone sequel, which I think is a shame because there should have been more Easter eggs for people dressed as cows.

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Don Levitard. You were that kind of sad this morning, taking the barrage of anger from Stugatz because you hadn't booked him enough interviews. The only reason I keep bringing this up is because you are throwing a big party on Thursday. You're doing it, and I want people to support what you're doing because Stugatz has not made this easy. Stugatz. Well, you know, well, yeah, you know. This is the Don Levitard Show with the Stugatz.

You mentioned Ryan Reynolds, and I saw a movie that got next to no attention that made me crawl around in my skin and was only him. The name of the movie is Buried, and it's him buried alive. And the movie never leaves the inside of the coffin. Obviously, it requires...

you know, patience from a moviegoer if you don't mind feeling claustrophobic for 90 minutes because the whole thing is taking place inside of a coffin. The reason that I bring it up is because I meant to ask all of you guys, and I have failed to do it today,

Over the weekend, I had an MRI. I don't know whether any of you have had an MRI. And the freak out that it caused for me, once it is that they put the helmet on your head and lock you in, and now they've got Netflix, you can watch it while you're in there, but you're going to feel like it's a bit of a...

It's a bit of, but it's a scuba tank on your head. And now, however, claustrophobic you were before, even if you didn't think you were claustrophobic, now you've got like a lead vest on you and an inability to move. You can't scratch your face. You're in an aquatic head gear that you sneeze in, you cough in. It freaked me out. Like the whole experience of being in that tight of a space is,

made me feel claustrophobic when I didn't think I was claustrophobic. And so I wanted to ask you guys... Did your chart say you were claustrophobic? Yeah, what did it say?

What do you mean, my chart? Well, I'm sure that's data. I've got to wait for 15 days to see whatever it is. Well, you don't have to wait to find out if you're claustrophobic. My chart? What do you mean, my chart? I mean, it took some readings, right? Yeah. That's all data. You freaking out. And also, I'm not for this, like, you get to watch Netflix. Me neither. I'm of a generation where you used to raw dog that shit. MRIs used to mean something.

You guys have had MRIs, all of you? Yeah. Yeah. Can you scroll your own Netflix? Are they asking you what you want to watch? They ask you at the top. So it's like a dentist. What would you like to watch? I can't get into a whole thing now. Now I'm going to have to be invested in this show. It's honestly how I felt about my daughter at the dentist because they have these TVs now. She's looking up at the dentist. She's watching Inside Out. On the roof, yeah. Back in my day. Generation X.

Idiots for a reason. You struggled here. I'd freak out with the decision. You know what? Just put on Mrs. Doubtfire. It's light. I can jump in at any point. Did you ask them how long it was going to take? Because then do you pick what you're watching based on length? I do that on planes sometimes. Oh, this is going to take a half hour? Let me watch a half hour. They said it was an hour. An hour show.

Comedy special, maybe? I chose... Well, this is what happened to me, though. The freakout was strong enough that I decided to just keep my eyes closed and try and breathe through it for the 60 minutes. But what is actually put in your mask is a mirror of a television that evidently is behind you. And so...

Once I opened my eyes with 30 seconds left, I could see, oh, it probably would have been pretty nice to do it that way. Oh, really? So like Mrs. Doubtfire's throwing the fruit lefty. So do you watch the movie backwards since it's in a mirror? No. I don't know how I'd watch the movie because I didn't see the movie, but I would imagine that the movie would be something meant to distract me at an hour at a time. None of you guys, surely the audience knows what I'm talking about. You guys think it's weird that I would have the freak out on that.

No, not at all. It tracks completely. Weird is that you're watching Netflix while having an MRI. Weird would have been you saying, like, I took an MRI and it was totally fine and totally normal. Nothing happened. Did you ask them to put it on mute? Yeah. Can you change the channel or the movie? No, because I went eyes closed, just relaxing spa music. Yeah, it seems like you were super relaxed. Yeah, that really helped. Yeah. The panic attack seems super relaxing. When you do the next one, you should watch something. Yeah.

Yeah. Mrs. Doubtfire, I'm telling you. Get over the whole 90s aspect of it. I originally chose Knives Out was what I ended up choosing. Oh, you got it. Don't watch anything from the 80s because they tell you don't get a boner and you never know when there's a sex scene from a movie in the 80s. It'll just pop up. It'll be in a kid's movie. They tell you that when you're getting an MRI? Yeah, they tell you that. Don't get a boner.

Does it happen often enough that they need to tell you? So now they figured out that they can't tell you anymore because then all people can think about is like, well, don't get a boner, don't get a boner, don't get a boner, boner. Depends what you're watching.

The choice that I was going to make that I did not make was... Too hot to handle. Hard Knocks, the New York Giants. Oh, the off-season one. Mike Florio hates that show. Well, I got bothered by the four minutes that I saw where I was just like, oh, really? Just executives coming in and out of offices. This is football making decisions.

And I do appreciate that there is more access than we've ever gotten before. So you can see the Giants fumble around Saquon Barkley in a way that makes them end up looking to the innards of the thing feeling dirty. You've got great access to that. You don't like that? That's them actually showing you something that's interesting. It's Mike Florio's problem with it. He's like, this access is too good. We crossed a line here. This is unfair to the players. This is a bad look for personnel. We've got to stop.

this the thing that i uh was made uncomfortable by is the glorifying of all of the fantasy gms who now get to watch eight dudes sitting in a room agonizing over the transaction to me it felt like the glorifying i have watched what's getting glorified around here you guys have seen right

the difference between what is the real Tyreek Hill coverage of what's going on in his personal life and how it was framed for us when you get the people involved who can manipulate the messaging on how it is that they bring you all this mythology. The Giants are uninteresting, like wildly uninteresting. They have to find some ways to make the Giants interesting because the one

player they had we cared about. They just lost to Philadelphia, a team that has run over them the last few years. So you liked it, though? I kind of got dragged in. So check this one out. Yeah.

Are you endorsing it? Because it fired you up to talk about it. What I got bothered by is seven guys walking in and out of rooms, day ball. I just got bothered by all the shitty leadership stuff when your team's not any good. Well, you're not playing online Dynasty mode in CFB 25 because that's all there is. You're talking about a three-star like you're living and dying with that. Your team's not going to be any good. It's a marathon, not a sprint. I watched my –

Palate Cleanser for Twisters was this movie called In a Violent Nature. What? And it's one of these Shudder originals. And Shudder's been doing some good things. They try to lean into the 1980s slasher films, its whole platform for that stuff. And this is an original movie. And it's your traditional slasher film, like this...

essentially this zombie with a weapon that you can't kill. Is Shudder working? Because I got it years ago. My brother loved it. Well, you may be entitled to some money. There was a class action lawsuit on a data thing that came from AMC. But I enjoyed Shudder because I think Shudder does great documentaries. Cursed films and their 101 scariest movies of all time was one of the

best docu-series I'd ever seen because they had the rights to everything. And so their original movies, I forget the name of this one that I actually went to the theater for about this late night talk show that there was an actual possession and an exorcism that took place in there and I enjoyed that. But In a Violent Nature is about this slasher film, your traditional slasher film, but it only follows the killer.

It's shot behind the killer, the killer's POV. You literally see this guy just walking through the forest, stalking upon people. And it's an interesting way. It's an ambitious movie. But what I realized is the whole slasher thing, I'm just watching to see how, because they do practical effects and I'm a geek about like,

The fly looked amazing because of all these practical effects and CGI is kind of ruining it. So I want to see like how gross you can be with your practical effects. And this one's pretty gruesome, but I have no connection to any of the people escaping the killer because I never see them.

I'm just stumbling upon their conversations, trying to piece together a story. Gotta care about characters before you start killing them. Otherwise it's just gruesome and just over the top. That's right. Uh, you need it. It's important for storytelling. Late night with the devil is the one that I saw that one. I fully endorsed. I like that one. It's weird. Super strange. Yeah, really? I shut us trying some different things. So I enjoy their movies. Uh,

I didn't know what was happening with the horror genre in general. It would strike me as a genre that would be difficult to keep in play. But can we get back to our original subject, which is best worst shows of all time? If I went all in with a hand like who's who's winning? Who won between Ballers and Entourage?

Entourage was much better in terms of like winning and more popular. Is that how we're doing this? Best worst show means that you would rank it. Everybody would say that's a bad show, but it's the best of the bad shows I've ever seen. I think Ballers was worse because everybody was saying like, this is a knockoff of Entourage. I think more people would put Ballers in this conversation we're talking about.

Some people, I think, just consider Entourage good. I'm with you. I agree that it should be in this category, but I think more people think Entourage is actually good than think Ballers is actually good. So are we voting for a show that's good or a show that's bad? It's a show that's bad, but it's the best of the bad. It is a bad show. It is eternally. It is not bad meaning bad. It is bad meaning good. It is bad meaning bad. It is not bad meaning good. So bad that you want to watch it. I'm more confused. So bad that you want to watch it? Guilty pleasure. You like it, so you want to watch it again, or it's...

The worst of the bad. It is a bad show, but it's the best of the bad shows, so therefore you will watch it. So the best means it's good, but it's bad. No, it's not good. It's bad. Dinosaurs. Can reality TV count in this regard? Yeah, we've only said sitcoms so far. I mean, I could say Jerry Springer. Ballers and the Entourage are not sitcoms. Are we putting reality? Like Jersey Shore, is that allowed in here?

Like the whole... All the Murphy shows... They should have to be scripted. All the Murphy shows are kind of all like purposefully bad and cheesy, but they have huge fan bases and he can get any project that he wants made in Hollywood. There are people that... My wife loves American Horror Story and I sit back and I'm like...

Oh, this has the appropriate amount of Murphy cheese. That's why Glee is right there at the top of the list as one of those. I was thinking of shows from my childhood era. Pretty Little Liars is one that definitely works in this. It's a truly terrible TV show. That one's great. I hate watching that with my wife. It's a great show to despise. Which one are you watching? You're not watching. I watched that one.

We hate the original. Couldn't stop watching. Not the original. The one that... It's happening right now. High school one, whatever. It's so bad and so wonderful. Do they even have A? Come on, get out of here. Do you remember Secret Life of the American Teenager with Shailene Woodley? Because that is one of the worst shows that's ever been aired on television. And it is remarkable. And I was thinking like the OC shows like that maybe get into the top tier because I love the OC. Phantom Planet? That's a show I'll go back and watch over and over again. Great theme. Banger. You know, Jason Schwartzman was a drummer of that band. Really?

Really? So if ballers and...

Entourage are playing a game of basketball against each other and you know they score points is the high point advancing or the low point advancing I'm trying to figure out if the one that advances in this bracket is a bad show or if it's a better show I've been very consistent in telling you at every turn no matter how many different ways you ask me the question is that it's a bad show I haven't moved off that position you keep asking me if it's a good show and I keep telling you at every turn it's a bad show

It's universally a bad show, but it's the best of the bad shows. That's where I'm getting lost. Riverdale? And so it's not a good show. Power is a good example of this. Power is a show that I will watch, and I'll be guilty the entire time I'm watching it. I'm like, this isn't any good, but it's good. So the one that you enjoy watching most is Moving On, right? Not the one you enjoy watching less. But it's got to be on a scale of very, very bad as well. So you've got to weigh those against each other. Art of Conversation. Hmm.

I don't know who's advancing. Too close to the bone? What? I kind of feel like whatever happened there, we've kind of buried it and we're good. We've moved on. That was a good show. It was. I mean, aesthetically pleasing. It was a good show. For two episodes, it was a good show. How many convertible cut scenes can one show have? You somehow had more convertible cut scenes than Entourage. Yeah.

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