Local Hour: Garbage Reflexes
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Billy stomped in here today, and I don't know who he's mad at, but I got to be honest, I was not expecting midway through the season, as the All-Stars are being announced in baseball, for Billy to have baseball games that he cares about. I shouldn't care about this team at this point in the season. And I say that with all due respect, and I have a date with them.

On Friday, but I shouldn't be caring. You're going to the game tomorrow? You're celebrating the 4th and America by going to an old-fashioned Major League Baseball game. Yeah, hot dogs, fireworks, baseball. America. Americana. You know what I mean? That'll be a good fireworks show, right? There won't be a lot better than... Hopefully.

You'll think there'll be a lot of better fireworks shows than the one put together by the Major League Baseball team? What would constitute where you're there watching and you're like, the fireworks show kind of sucks. Kids crying, them being asleep, us planning to go to see fireworks with them, but then leaving early because they're fussy, because it's late for them. Nine innings, two kids. Starting at 7-10. If I see the fireworks tomorrow, I will be shocked.

i will be shocked if i see the how do the kids feel about fireworks they don't have feelings yet they're too and too young yeah they feel how i feel feelings how i tell them how they feel about fireworks they're probably horrified crying if i were to guess one of them likes it when we do it like in the driveway and stuff so she'll probably like it the two-year-old or the soon-to-be two-year-olds will probably start crying and be scared even though it's far away but

It's loud. I don't know. We'll see. We can talk them into it. They've seen them at Disney and they're like sometimes okay with it, sometimes not. Chris Cody, I will say to you that there have been two or three times over the last month that I have been away from the show and just laughing about something that you had offered on the show.

And one of them was the principle, the life principle of never feeling more alive than when you're jogging slowly away from the fireworks as the fuse goes down. A backpedal if you're really feeling it. Zaz, are you a Disney guy? Yeah.

What does that mean? Like, do you take your kids to Disney? I guess your kids are older now. Yeah, sure. They may be out of the Disney phase. We used to, yes. Well, because, like, I... Disney guy. What? I feel like you are, but you don't know what that means? He's got grown teenagers, though. Like, that's my personality. I'm a Disney guy. Nah, like, do you like to go to Disney? No. No, I don't, actually. Okay, never mind, then. I'm not going to tell you. Waiting in the lines? It's the most overrated place there is, Disney. Whoa. I mean, very clearly not. You could have just said no. You know you're not.

Why aren't you? No, but you're asking, like, is it a place I used to take my kids? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I'd be careful with that opinion, given that you're a climbing star at ESPN. I'm allowed to not want to stand in a three-hour line in 95 degrees. I'm telling you, you're not doing it right. Lightning lanes nowadays, you can get a— There's not as long of lines as— Do you want— Dan—

I feel like you haven't been there in forever. Do you understand how expensive it is to go? I have been there in the last, I'm going to say five years. And I went there right before we left the ESPN with those passes that Chris talks about. And if you have those passes, it's a great experience. You're not,

waiting in any lines. Well, I'd slow down on the not waiting. You got different passes. You had different passes. We just were able to go in some random Wednesdays we could go in for free. I don't know what you had. There's the line where you wait incredibly long and then there's the lightning pass, which is you just wait long.

Zazz, you're a rising star at ESPN. You have to make asks to make your Disney experience better. You have asks that you can make. I get comps. I get comp tickets. But you can get better than that. Really? Yes. No, Dan can get better than that. There's a disconnect here. No, I mean. Zazz is a rising star. Do not question Zazz's rising stardom. This is the Dan Levitar Show with the Stugatz Podcast. ♪

Well, Zazz wanted to talk about Disney, so what are we supposed to do? He's the co-host today. He brings up Disney. We go down the Disney path. Yeah.

The Marlins last night had a chance to put all of us in play so that we had a Billy Live watch party tonight as the Marlins went for a winning streak larger than any winning streak in franchise history. I liked Billy watching nine innings of twins tonight.

Marlins baseball. Twinkies. But he was denied that because the Marlins lost 2-1 and their eight-game winning streak, which could have become nine and tied the franchise record, dissolved because of controversy. We sent Jeremy Taché out to Marlins Park. We'll have a live report from the controversy. What was the controversy, Billy?

So it was in the sixth inning. We have the video here if you want to see the video here. For those of you who are on YouTube who are not tuned in to Marlins Twins. So Kyle Stowers just hits a ball that seems to be a base hit right up the middle. Runner on second base comes around to score. Everyone's saying, OK, tie game 2-2. But no, if you look, the umpire throws up his hands and he says, Does it even hit him? I interfered with this play. And if you watch it, I mean, it barely grazed him, if even that. The run was sure to score anyways. Ball doesn't even seem to really change directions. That's garbage.

So what they end up doing is they don't say, okay, you know what, runners on first and third. No. They sent Jesus Sanchez back to second base when he was halfway to third base with his lead anyways and said, no, dead ball, runner doesn't advance. And there's no review of this. It remains a 2-1 game. For those of you not watching, there was a runner in scoring position at second base. It's a line drive, clear his day up the middle. No one's near it except the umpire. The second baseman and the shortstop are nowhere near it. The ball is hit hard. The ball...

The only reason I know that the ball hit the umpire is because the umpire immediately threw his hands up to say it had hit him, and that's an automatic dead ball. But even on replay, I cannot tell that the – you're slowing it down for me, you're freezing it for me, and I still can't tell that the ball hit the umpire and you're mad. You knew the rule beforehand, right, that if it hits the umpire, it's an immediate dead ball, but you didn't know that they'd send Sanchez back to second. I didn't.

I think everyone was confused and, you know, on the call, Tommy Hutton was, you know, Tommy Hutton. He was not happy with the way that this thing played out. You know, I don't...

He seemed a little hot under the collar after this call. He always does, though. At Levitard Show, does Tommy Hutton always seem a little bit hot under the collar? You guys are with me on this? When I said yesterday that I've rarely been more scared during a sporting participation than playing third base in a softball game against Ozzie and Jose Canseco, that's why right there. The way the ball comes off Stowers' bat, like,

That is an umpire who's not anywhere near where that ball's being hit, and he does not have the speed. Here's exactly where the ball was being hit. The exit velocity on what it is that's happening there, he doesn't have the speed to get out of the way. Can we be honest, though? That's garbage reflex by the umpire. It is. Like, whatever, all right? He's not standing in front of the pitcher's mound. That's garbage reflex.

If you're going to stand there, like it's your job. Okay, you got to stand there. It's also your job to not get hit by that ball. And that's garbage. That's garbage, really, Flex. I mean, it didn't impact the play at all. So I feel like if we're going to be honest, he wasn't paying attention. I don't think it hit him. I'm going to tell you, I don't think it hit him. You don't think it hit him? No, I don't. 100% hit him. 100%? It clearly changes direction. It does. It does.

What's weird is it actually makes it. English on that ball. The deflection actually carries it closer to the second baseman. Yeah. Which is, I mean, Marlin's got bone there. Mm-hmm. He should be diving. Like, if he's diving to catch it, but in the opposite direction out of the way if he was paying attention. I think he's in that nomad's land where it's like, I'm calling balls and strikes. There's not anyone on first base. No, I know what it is. What do I have to do? I know what happened. It's garbage reflex. Mm.

I do like Billy's theory, though, that the umpire was thinking about other things. There's so much time out there to be thinking about other things that it is possible that he just wasn't paying. I mean, think about how many times he's standing behind the pitcher board and the ball's not hitting him, not hit anywhere near him, and he doesn't have to worry about it. He's watching the runner on second base. Is there going to be a pickoff? No, no one's even covering second base. What am I doing with my life? There have to be times where the umpire's down the line. This is what I'm thinking. Have a check swing. Yeah.

And they're daydreaming. And all of a sudden, the home plate umpire is pointing down to them. And they're just like, nope. They just have to say something. I'm totally with you. That definitely happens where you weren't paying the closest attention at third to the checks.

They're coming to me. The umps having marital problems. Yeah, right. He's just thinking about life. Yeah, just something. Just something. There's something wrong with the tuition payment. Like, just he's thinking about something else. Checking in on parlays or something. Yeah, that too. Not baseball, guys, okay? Well, he's really happy about his twins.

Oh, look at that parlay. Well, he's probably also thinking like, you know what? Like tomorrow noon game. Maybe I can move my flight back a little bit. Head to the beach or something. Time to throw away all journalistic credibility and get reckless. Here is something we like to call reckless speculation. You're good. I'm good. Someone's good. You're good. He's on the take.

I didn't say that. You did kind of say that. No, I said not baseball. You did kind of say that. You said you can't be an umpire and bet on other parlays. Yeah, he could be betting on the WNBA. Could he not? I don't believe that. Commissioner's Cup was just the other day. I'm going to guess that there's a rule against umpires doing any gambling of any sort. I'm also going to guess possibly that umpires aren't even allowed to go into a casino in Vegas. That they're not allowed. They're definitely not allowed that. Really? Yeah, you can't go in a casino. What if they want to go see a magic show?

Better hustle in and out of that casino. If you get caught off guard down the line with a check swing, you always just go no swing, right? Yes. You can't throw the swing if you're just like. I've always theorized this. No clue. They're not locked in on everything. Right. Can't be. Right. Put it on the poll, please, at Levitard Show. If the umpire is daydreaming on a check swing, is he just going to hold his hands out in the safe gesture? It's too much paying attention to be locked in on everything.

every pitch when you're standing at third. And there had to be one where it's like, that one I was locked in on. They didn't ask me. I want the honest umpire that points down to first base. That umpire points to second base. What do you think? Or just a shrug. It could just be. In the NBA, that happens all the time with the referees who are like, he looks for help. He doesn't know who it went out on. Why does that never happen at first base? They always know. You know what drives me crazy in basketball? When the official furthest away from the play makes a call. Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God. That's your call. Come on. Hey, that's his call. He didn't say anything. Come on. NBA officials, we can say bet on the games, right? I mean, that's confirmed. Hold on a second. I mean, damn. That's not even evidence. Time to throw away all journalistic credibility and get reckless. Here is something we like to call reckless speculation. By the way, did you see the Malik Beasley stuff? I told you. There are other factors in life. It isn't necessarily a dude trying to cash a teaser.

This guy seemed to be under it a little bit. Well, that's what I was saying to you guys when you don't know what someone's financial issues are, no matter how many millions they're into, and you don't know what someone's gambling problem is either. Yeah, well, that's where I took offense. He may not have the gambling problem. He may be doing something for someone else that does because he's under it.

That's right. And I believe that that is the general danger that everyone has underestimated in normalizing and enjoying gambling the way that this show does. But wouldn't the danger be when it's not regulated so it doesn't go checked like this? I'm with you. Like, everyone's just going to point and say...

hey, there are more of these now, and it's clearly because gambling is legal in all these additional states. No, we're just catching it more. But these leagues have partnerships with these betting partners that hand over the data. It's what happened with Calvin Ridley, where they hand over the data to the league and say, hey, this is suspicious. This is a pattern directly from this person. That wouldn't have been caught before it was legalized. No, and it also goes without saying that this stuff...

Malik Beasley, there are probably dozens upon dozens of examples of Malik Beasley's out there that have gone totally unchecked, even with the current state of affairs with these checks and balances, but prior to that.

I mean, so many people got away with this. It's been happening for hundreds of years. Yes. By the way, Terry Rozier cleared. Yeah, we talked about that. And Mike Ryan was enjoying the fact that he was accused of fixing games but was cleared and is simply bad at basketball and was accused of fixing games because he's that bad at basketball. But we have...

in play already what it is that I said about or what it is they said about the umpire and check swings can you guys find for me information whether umpires or referees can indeed go into a casino of any kind and I want to ask the poll question at levitard show if umpires are not allowed in casinos can an umpire go through the casino lobby to go to the magic show

Yes or no, because I don't think you're allowed to gamble, but maybe the band extends to like you can't go at the Bellagio to see O either, which would be the greater hurt for an umpire who has no interest in gambling, but perhaps is interested in the arts. What if he's just like the Blue Man Group, you know, and now he can't go anymore? He has to go outside to get to the theaters.

Yes, an MLB umpire can physically enter or walk through a casino so long as they do not violate MLB's gambling rules. But they can't gamble on anything, correct? That would be violating MLB's gambling rules. Can they gamble on lotto? Are umpires allowed to gamble on the lottery? And also put this on the poll, does Rick Carlisle look like a retired member of the Blue Man Group?

at LeBittard Show. Before I do any more Marlins talk, because, Billy, I do want to get into this team. Yeah, we've done enough of them, probably. MLB umpires can play the state lottery. Wow. They can even bet on other sports legally. Can they roll dice? How about the ponies? I assume if they can bet on other sports. Highlight?

Yeah, they can do that. Wow. So you were right, Billy. So you were totally right. Yes, I will apologize to you because you were right. Jeremy, you know something about me, right? You know when I'm grilling outside and it's summertime, you know how I supplement my summertime? Of course I do. I make a Miller Time. Of course. That beautiful white can. Oh, when it's so hot outside, I just put it right to my forehead, right there. And I just roll it sometimes right on the forehead, cool my body down, and then I crack it open.

instant relief and then that first sip brother does that first hit that is a top five sequence of events that you can possibly go through i'm just serenity now when i just imagine that first sip of miller light just thinking about it's making me happy dude the sun is out it's nice you have your friends showing up you got your family there you just had your first sip of miller light and you know what you're happy

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Opposing teams in the triple air. Stugatz. These are smiles. Till the bloods are clutch again. Clutch again. This is the Dan Levitar Show with the Stugatz. Before I go any further, though, I would like to address...

With the group. When was the last time particularly that you saw the flames and the volume get this high on the Miami Heat? Because a lot of people right now are mad at Barry Jackson because he's reporting the Miami Heat's quote-unquote plan, and it isn't much of a plan. And the internet is pretty mad, okay, at, in general, what's happened recently.

to the Miami heat. So you've got Evan Parsons, 85 saying, this is the type of that pisses me off them running propaganda ops through their big three, Barry, Ethan, and Levittard.

That's not going to work anymore. And now whenever I hear them talk about the team, I feel like I'm being played. Biscayne Maine says Heat culture is all about taking accountability unless you're the architect of the franchise putting together these teams. Big Idiot Heat Guy says find someone who's willing to make excuses about you in the same way Pat Riley is willing to make excuses for the mediocre ass roster he assembled.

And then Greg Silander, the writer, says a close friend who's been a Heat fan since before Riley just texted me, yeah, I'm out. They're just going to continue to tread water, which is what the one thing that Heat fans didn't want to see after the years of frustration finally caught up to the majority of the fan base. There were subsects of the fan base that were like,

I don't think this is the right path. I mean, I'm aggravated. I haven't been aggravated like this, and I don't know. You should be. I was talking to Billy before the show. I'm like, their plan is essentially to run it back, and he correctly said, well, they're not running it back. Duncan Robinson isn't here anymore. They might actually be worse. Their plan is...

There was a part in this article of Barry's which is the Heat don't feel like they actually got a fair shot to evaluate the roster because of all the chaos Jimmy Butler caused. Again, not exactly accepting your accountability on your part in the Jimmy Butler mess, Miami.

but that's fine. They also blamed Andrew Wiggins' ankle injury. They want to develop these young assets, hopefully trade for a superstar, but there is a huge flaw in the logic, and even Barry Jackson admits this. Say they develop guys. They already have two all-stars in Tyler Hero and Bam Adebayo. Their package, if they went all in on trying to acquire a superstar like Giannis...

They don't have a good hand compared to Houston or San Antonio. They're still falling short. And the reason why they don't want to go in the other direction in tank is because they point to several examples of where tanking doesn't work. They don't point to the Oklahoma City Thunder where it does work spectacularly.

Do they not have confidence in their own ability to rebuild the roster? Their best trade assets are the two All-Stars, Tyler Hill, Bam Adebayo. We got a season. They blamed the Jimmy Butler chaos, but we got... The Rockets tanked too, correct? Yes. The Rockets also tanked and got rewarded for tanking. And they took your lunch money on Kevin Durant, and they still have plenty of assets to go ahead and beat you to Giannis. Okay, but that part's not hard why they're not willing to do the tanking part. Riley's 80. That's...

That's why. Like, that part's not hard. But, okay, so what's more important? Riley's age? And I'm just asking this question because you could answer that Riley gets to go however he wants because he's the godfather and he brought us all this success and he made the franchise relevant. But what is more important?

age in his timetable or the betterment of the franchise? I want to ask you guys a number of questions related to that point right there, okay, that he just mentioned because this is the loudest I've ever heard it around Pat Riley. Jeff Teague is saying, quote, you know what's so funny? What Pat said at the end of the year, this won't be the same team as last year. Yeah, well, you're right. Actually, it won't. You let Duncan go, you got worse. Unless they are about to get Bradley Beal something or

End quote. It's right on the money, and Pat said that. It's not right on the money. The move that Jeff Teague wants him to make is getting Bradley Neal? No, it's right on the money in calling out what Pat Riley said at the end of the year, which got Heat fans excited. All right, the Godfather finally realizes he got hit in the face with the biggest blowout in NBA playoff history. There are changes coming, and the changes are...

Duncan Robinson isn't going to be here anymore. That's true. Now, the Bradley Beal thing, cast that to the side. But it's absolutely a fair accusation. And to me, it leads me to believe, wait, there is an alignment here in what Pat said and what the final verdict was. So who's in charge? Zaz, let's do this because I will say when you say who's in charge, this is an interesting one, right? Because I floated this guy to you guys before because I

This is a bit of a crossroads for the Miami Heat. And I've told you the inner workings of this team aren't what people think it is. The people who run this team are Mickey and Nick Arison. Nick is Pat Riley's boss.

boss. When Mickey Arison came up through the cruise line industry, he was put in charge of everything when he was 30 years old, and he did the same thing for his son with this organization. And I'm not positive that Nick and Pat are connected right here, where Pat is at 80. I want to win right now, and I don't know if Nick would rather have the draft picks or not, and I don't know what kind of tension it might cause, because it has caused tension, and it's not big tension.

But how do you imagine Pat Riley feels about reporting to Nick Arison, who used to be a ball boy? How do you imagine that would go in the places where there's disagreement and Nick has to win things? I don't know. I don't have the answer for you on how often Nick is overruling.

Pat, how often Nick is the deciding vote in the vote of five among the group of five that make the decision. But I will keep telling you again and again, and no one seems to know this, the person that Pat Riley reports to is Nick Arison. Nick was probably 10 years old when Pat Riley got here, right? I'm being serious. He was probably 10 years old, something like that, and now it's his boss. But wouldn't you assume, if we're just using common sense here,

Wouldn't you assume the CEO, who is Nick Harrison's age, whatever he is, 40, whatever he is, and Pat Riley, who is 80, wouldn't you assume that they're on completely different sides of how to move forward with this team? Like, wouldn't that be common sense? I think the way, though, that it comes off, whether it's intentional or not, is...

When it's good times, it's Pat Riley. When it's bad times, he can't do anything. It's not his fault. His hands are tied. What I'm telling you, though, is that Pat's not going to draft. He's not going to go for six draft picks like that. He's not going to do that. If you what you guys got to tell me whether you're OK with this. This is what you have to answer for me if we're if we're going to go ahead and flush out this hypothetical. You guys good with Pat Riley just stepping down because the Heat decide to go to rebuild?

Am I good with it? If that's what he decides on... No, but he would be being forced out because they're running the organization differently than you guys want it to be run and differently than he would want it to be run. I just want the franchise to get to being a contender quickly. But how long is his leash is the question, right? Because everyone's like, yeah, Pat can go out on his own terms, but like...

If this is just the same thing every year for the next decade, how long is it going to be he can go out on his own terms for? Here's a couple of things that have bothered me about Miami Heat fans pushing back on this notion. Everyone points to the two finals in three years. Pushing back on the notion that Pat Riley... Yeah, that he's done and that he's cooked. Look, man, they've won two Eastern Conference championships. Number one, the roster's totally different right now.

Number two, that was a long time ago because the Dallas Mavericks were in the NBA Finals more recently than the Miami Heat and they were a punchline come Martin Luther King Day.

So we were all laughing at Dallas, but apparently we can't laugh at Miami for being the same kind of disaster. I genuinely don't know what is the quicker path to being a contender. Writing it out and presumably they hope that they can develop the young guys into assets that can somehow usurp the package that Houston and San Antonio could present for a superstar or just saying, Bam and Tyler are our best assets right now. Let's get a bevy of picks and do it the Houston way.

I think the most damning thing about the Heat and Pat and just like the front office right now is it's crazy to say, but it was 10 years ago. So 10 years ago, you had LeBron James. You had Dwayne Wade. You had Chris Bosh. Back-to-back titles. You were the toast of the town. You were the team everyone envied in the NBA. People hated whatever, right? You took the town from the Dolphins. And in 10 years...

you're on the precipice of losing the town to a hockey team. Well, no. You're trending towards losing the town to a hockey team that historically Miami has not cared about. Yeah, that's not true. I mean, as much as I love the Panthers, and the Panthers, I mean, essentially get my attention first these days.

They're not in jeopardy of losing the town. You think if you go around the town, everyone's like, the heat, the heat, the heat. It's two different towns. We're talking about Broward and Dade. It's two different places. Yeah, there are incremental gains in Miami-Dade, and they're going to have to keep chipping away, like A.J. Greer is having a party in Westchester tonight. That's something that would... Whoa! What's going on there? I don't know about that.

about that? A fourth line winger is going to a local brewery to celebrate the Stanley Cup in West Chester. It boggles the mind. Is he going to have the cup? He's not going to have the cup. They're putting the names on it right now. To be fair though to what it is the Heat have built here, just to be clear, and Zaz is right about this, the Panthers are becoming something that is more of a Dade County team. The Heat over the virtue of the last 20 years are dominating

Dade and Brower. They're not just Dade. No doubt, but to Billy's point, Greg Cody wrote an entire column on this is like the shoes on the other foot now. The Panthers are what the Heat once were. With the great management and the winning. In terms of where they are as a franchise and getting close to a championship and the perception and the respect that they garner from around the league and what the

fans actually feel about their team's chances. The Miami Heat are stuck in the middle of no man's land right now. They are, but let me just stop you guys for a second on what it is you're doing. First of all, I want to ask a question. Mike has now used this expression a handful of times over the last few weeks. He has commented on the taking of lunch money. Are we still doing lunch money given that we're not doing cash anymore? No, actually the bill...

that just passed made sure that there was no more lunch money and no more lunch period. The big beautiful bill just passed this morning at 6 a.m.? Well, part of the deal was they can't call it that anymore because that triggers people. All right. But lunch money, physical lunch money, is that something that

bullies still take. Put it on the poll at Levitard Show. Is lunch money still something that bullies take? But the place that I wanted to stop you guys and forgive the fire alarm, we're going to just blow right through it because we're on live and we don't care. Yeah, we didn't get that preemptive. This is just a drill today. Right. We will continue to ignore these until one day we get

the viral moment of all of us going up in flames here because we've ignored the fire alarm again. But the thing that you guys do, and this is really easy to do, right? Because we all get to be general managers and no one holds us accountable for when we get it wrong. You say, the Heat have failed the last few years. Well...

You guys didn't want Harden. You didn't want Kyrie Irving. You didn't want them. They were both available. They've just signed quietly elsewhere. It seems to have worked out. You didn't want those guys. You wanted Dame, and if you'd gotten him, you wouldn't be real happy right now if Damian Lillard had also gotten here. So all your moves end up working, even though they don't, because Harden just signed quietly elsewhere.

With the Clippers, hasn't been an issue there. They love having him. $40 million a year. Kyrie Irving just signed quietly with Dallas. Doesn't seem to have any problems there. I don't know if what you're doing is right. Again, apologies for this fire alarm. That does not shut, though.

Oh, we were talking about Tyler Hero for James Harden. That was an actual debate. And a lot of people felt really strongly about getting James Harden. Kyrie Irving had a lot of off the court stuff going on at the time. And this was at the time where Miami was actually competing for Eastern Conference championships.

But there were plenty of arguments to be made, and I think most people landed on whatever the franchise decides on. Damian Lillard, yeah, we wanted Damian Lillard. Miami Heat wanted Damian Lillard, too. And they approached that like total a**holes, all right? And they failed. In fact, every example that you cited, Miami kicked the tires and tried to put together something to get these players, and they failed.

My biggest problem with the Heat's plan right now is they are seeming... It doesn't have to be seemingly. Their MO is to have all these assets, young players, whatever draft picks they have, and they are waiting for a star player, a superstar player, to get upset with his current situation, and then they are going to pounce. And to me, that's not a plan. No.

Like, hoping that someone gets... Because it's plentiful, where you're hoping for someone to get angry enough to want to be out, and then you're also hoping for that team to be willing... You're not just convincing a free agent to come to you, it's you have to convince that team to then send him to you, but in reality, that player has to make a mess of the situation so that...

It doesn't matter if another team has better assets than you. And that, to me, that's not a plan. Okay, you say it's not a plan, but I would say that it's been the transplant plan of Pat Riley since he got here. Go get Alonzo Mourning. Go get Tim Hardaway. Go get Jimmy Butler. Go get LeBron James. He hit on Wade and changed his entire philosophy. Okay, I will trust young players. I'm not going to do it anymore the way that I did it with the Knicks and the Lakers. Yeah, but what happens with Duncan Robbie?

who's one of these guys who's on your roster who you don't end up trading because you believe in him, and now he's gone anyways. So you never traded him for a star, and now you've got nothing in return for him. That's true, and you got a player that you invented out of nothing, as you've gotten the reputation for doing since drafting Dwayne Wade gave you the opportunity to change your entire philosophy on how it is Pat Riley does things, because he now does trust young players in a way that was the biggest knock

on Pat Riley. The only knock on Pat Riley is he will not allow young players to grow. But when you say that's not a plan, what do you mean? Miami's a transient community and this franchise is absolutely has rested for the last 15 years on the plan of we'll wait until somebody's mad where they are and we will get them because we have better tax breaks in Florida. But they don't get them. Yeah, that example right there has not happened since

Since Goran Zhragic. It happened with Jimmy Butler. He's a free agent, though. But he was unhappy where he was. And they got Jimmy Butler when no one thought they could get Jimmy Butler. You get the disgruntled guy, and then he comes in, and he's disgruntled, and he makes a mess and throws off your plan. How did that work?

out spectacularly. No, it didn't. This is championship culture. They didn't win a championship. Don't come with this bullshit of we're going to win the championship or bust and then not win a championship. They got super close. They failed him in the Sixers. He wasn't disgruntled. The Sixers chose Tobias Harrison to move the roster in a different direction. He was disgruntled with wherever he was. In Minnesota, in Philadelphia, he wanted his money. The thing that you guys are doing on this, though, is that Jimmy Butler failed, but Kyrie Irving hasn't? Or James Harden hasn't? They were the available

guys. You wanted them. They've been successful, but they didn't get ultimate success, so they failed. Harden and Irving just got re-signed because they failed in Dallas and Los Angeles. I'm not going to go as far as to say they fell short of their ultimate goal, which is a championship. Coach Spolstra certainly maximized the talent available on the roster. Pat Riley did fail because it was clear from the day that we acquired Jimmy Butler, they needed a player better than Jimmy Butler to win a title.

Now Jimmy Butler made us think about that more than twice with incredible playoff performances, but the fact remained they needed to get somebody better. They knew this. And along the way, players like that popped up that did the things that you want the disgruntled superstars to do. And the Miami Heat were in the mix. And usually that resulted in the Miami Heat getting those players.

They didn't. They chose not to. Like, they didn't want to go in all in to support Jimmy Butler for some reason. They didn't want to go all in on Lillard. And then he, historically, who's a disgruntled person, became disgruntled again here because he felt like he wasn't getting the support that he was asking for. And now he left, and here they are.

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TNT, ESPN, you know, oh, yeah, they are dead. They're not going to make it, you know, even if they win in the...

If they lose it in Miami... I need to calm you down. That's right. If they lose it in Miami, they don't get a chance in Boston. Oh, they are going to have their ass, you know what, in Boston, you know. Stugatz. They were wrong. Are they going to lose their job? No. Are they going to get a cutting plate? No. What are they going to do? Keep predicting what is the obvious. They are going to say, oh, the Nuggets are going to win. Oh, Denver, the Altitude. And you know what? The Heat are going to win it all. This is the Dan Levatar Show with the Stugatz.

♪

So I want to ask everybody this question because you've heard me say a number of different times while watching, for example, the Patriots. I can't even imagine what Boston Sports Radio is right now when it comes to conversations about the Patriots because you get so spoiled of we expect to win the championship a third of the time. The Miami Heat have placed the standard in a place that makes all of this louder than it has been at any time, at least in part because of where they place the standard of, oh, the

fan base is used to getting whoever or whatever they want and now when they don't get the people they want you guys say that jimmy butler is a failure somehow or the jimmy butler experience was a failure when it went from deon waiters and hassan whiteside to they're in the finals twice can we travel back in time though momentarily what was the general feeling when the miami heat got pretty much beat up by the denver nuggets in the nba finals not good enough they're not good enough

Everyone agreed. Incredible season. Maximize it. Hell yeah, we beat Boston. That feels amazing. But if we want to win a title, we know we got to get better. Three years have gone by. Of them failing to get better, they've gotten worse. I think after three years, and I was sounding the alarms after they made the final saying that this isn't good enough, and I was confused as everybody else around us got better. All right, that's fine. Year one, maybe I need jerk. Year two, start listening to me. Year three?

That's why the Flames are as high as they've ever been. I understand. Bam said at the last presser there are going to be a lot of changes this summer. Be prepared for that. And there hasn't been anything since. And I understand the frustration. The place that I'm just stopping you guys at the risk of being accused of mouthpiece. Being accused of being a mouthpiece for the Heath. You're part of the big three. I am part of the big three. I didn't like my ranking there. Barry, Ethan, then me. Well, you occasionally go into it. You build up. You're not as consistent as the other guys in being a mouthpiece. Because I don't... I...

I have never, ever leaked anything volunteered. That's not something the organization does. I sometimes go around and ask questions. But the demand being made, I get it. I get the frustration. But please understand, when you point to me and you say, okay, they did what they did with Jimmy Butler and got to the finals and then weren't good enough. And then you're saying, you know what I realized during the finals? Need someone better than Jokic. Okay.

Okay, you win. Not necessarily. No, but you win. You need someone better than Jimmy. And that was consistent. That was a six-year conversation. You get to Denver, and the reason you lose is because Jimmy's not as good as Jokic. Right, but what we were worried about wasn't necessarily like, look, they've got to make it through the West. Hopefully someone takes Jokic out before you get there. But...

But it wasn't a sustainable business model being able to beat Boston. It was wonderful that you did it as many times as you did, but everybody else continued to improve, and we didn't. You say a sustainable model. I would say that the Heat selling out their arena has been a sustainable model for 15 years because they've been relevant, and I would also say that while Pat Riley set the standard at championship or busted,

It makes damn near every player in the league a bust to make it championship or bust. Because by that definition, Jimmy Butler is a bust. By that definition. Agreed. We're on the same page. I don't agree with that. You just said it.

I don't agree with it. You just said it. We agree. By that definition. Well, Jimmy Butler agrees. And whether you think it's performative or not, he has given plenty of interviews since his departure and even while he was here being allegedly happy saying, we failed. Right. And Luka failed last year and then was traded because he's a bust too. We're just going to keep doing that. But we're just going to give Pat Riley a pass forever.

Like, he can just do whatever he wants. I don't think anyone's giving him a pass. First of all, he's not getting a pass right now. Well, first of all, he's not getting a pass. Second of all, if anyone in sports were to get a Pat Riley forever pass, I'd name it after Pat Riley. Same, because he gets it forever. So what would you do, Billy? Say it. What would I do? Right now, just say it. I think Pat Riley needs to go. I don't think that anyone's been beating around the bush on this. So fire him. Would I fire him? Right.

I mean, I would say I think that we need to move in a different direction. So fire him. Would that necessarily be – like he may decide to resign if Nick Erison tells him, hey –

we just don't agree with your plan. We're going to trade Bam. We're going to trade Tyler. This is the direction that the franchise is going to go into. And I can see Pat Riley saying, I don't want to be a part of that. I'm just going to willingly step down. You never fire. Pat Riley should never be fired. This thing that you guys are doing. But he's not going to leave on his own volition. I think he might if that's presented to him. Dan would know. If that hype

Hypothetical. I have not asked, so I don't know that. And I'm just throwing it out there as a hypothetical, but it would make sense. It's a logical hypothetical for Nick to have not been in charge for as long as he has been and to want to be in charge now that they're making a change. I would say to all of you, though, if you're firing Pat Riley, then you're also saying that the rest of it isn't because Spohr died.

Spoh has a tremendous amount to do with every decision being made around there. He's one-fifth of... It's him, Ellis Berger... But you see, like, now it's not Pat Riley. It's Eric Spolstra's fault that this isn't working out. It's just never Pat Riley's fault. Dude, we're the only ones talking about the five.

Everyone is saying it's Pat Riley's fault. Everybody nationally, it's just Pat Riley. You put on television, Stephen A. Smith only refers to Pat Riley. He never says Nick Harrison or Andy Ellis. Outside of us on this show right here saying that there's a five-headed monster here, I don't hear anyone else. Everyone else is just Pat Riley. And that's okay, though, but that's...

How the whole thing is set up, it has worked for many years. So what would you do? And it'll, by the way... If this is not working, according to you, what would you do? If I may, before you answer that, that perception nationally is how Pat Riley likes it. Oh, yeah. That's why Pat Riley is the one that's doing the end of the season. I think it's how the organization likes it. It's how the Arisons like it as well. No, it's mutually beneficial.

And Pat loves going out there and gassing up the Heat fans, talking about Wales and talking about changes and leaning into the godfatherness of that. You say he loves that, but there's a reason he only talks to the press once or twice a year now. He doesn't actually want to do much of that anymore. Now he doesn't love attention, Versace man with his slicked back hair, doesn't like the spotlight. He doesn't like to get in Spolstra's way on whatever the voice for the organization is, and so he doesn't actually speak very much. And...

Everyone, I told you guys this recently, everyone in Hollywood says that the big documentaries that can get made by anybody at any time are Larry Bird and Pat Riley. Can we trade that in for Giannis? Like, can we, the provisional green light for Pat Riley's documentary, is that a trade ship for us? Let me ask. Larry Bird is so boring.

Larry Bird documentary. That's the stories by others that would be good. I think a Larry Bird documentary in theaters would be out of theaters by week two. Really? You don't think so? Oh, it'd be a massive loss. He's famously like a great talker. He's the hick from French Lick. The rivalry with magic dating back to college. Being a white guy in Boston. I think there are plenty of interesting stories. There's a lot of white guys in Boston. No, no, no. But you know what I mean?

Let me answer Billy's question here because I don't want to avoid it when he says what it is that I would do. And I will say that you can catch me in an inconsistency here locally if you remember, as my father does, how insulted Don Chula was that I called for his replacement in the Miami Herald. Cobbler.

when he has the same kind of reputation that Pat Riley does in this town and with building this organization. That doesn't get the same attention as my dad's trade merino column. You did a fire Shula column? Yeah, because I wanted to replace him with Jimmy Johnson. Shula grilled him. Yeah, he was mad at me. But what I say to Billy in terms of an answer on the Miami Heat is...

I would be fine, actually, with you telling me that the Miami Heat have a different plan for Pat Riley that will have a graceful exit for him. And you have a better solution for me. Because it's just going to be Spoh in charge of the organization. What would change if Riley's not running the show today? Are you bringing someone else to run the organization? I don't think they would, though. It's going to be somebody the Arisons want. Adam Simon, probably.

It's going to be somebody that the Arisons already know. And you know the Arisons aren't going to make it look like Pat Riley was fired. That's not ever going to happen. Okay, but not the Arisons. What would Dan Levitar do? You've got to give me someone better.

Give me someone better. Is Spoh better? And if you find someone better, what do you do? No, Spoh is not better because Spoh is already there. He's already doing it. What's better about Spoh being in charge? There seem to be a lot of people better at it right now in the NBA. Over the last three years, it's hard to argue. Give me a name that would excite you guys. Sam Presti. I would love... Brad Stevens. You're in charge of this scenario. Give me Brad Stevens.

Jeremy, you know something about me, right? You know when I'm grilling outside and it's summertime, you know how I supplement my summertime? Of course I do. I make a Miller Time. Of course. That beautiful white can. Oh, when it's so hot outside, I just put it right to my forehead, right there, and I just roll it sometimes right on the forehead, cool my body down, and then I crack it open.

instant relief and then that first sip brother does that first sip that is a top five sequence of events that you can possibly go through i'm just serenity now when i just imagine that first sip of miller light just thinking about it's making me happy dude the sun is out it's nice you have your friends showing up you got your family there you just had your first sip of miller light and you know what you're happy

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