The Big Suey: Gotcha Journalism with Ryan Blaney
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Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebitard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar.

This episode is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours. Greg Cody, are you ready to go? Your headset is not on. I am ready.

What are you doing? You seem very busy here. We've got... I'm researching. You are researching? Yeah. Did you find out things that will be useful on the program? I am preparing, yes. Okay. We do have an update. We're doing due diligence. We do have an update. Multiple NHL insiders, including lead NHL insider for The Athletic, are reporting that it's not expected that Sam Bennett faces any discipline. Oh, wow. I mean, I just said it. Yeah, Zaz reported it earlier. That's breaking news. Did he report it? No.

Yeah. That's breaking news. Yeah. I'm a journalist, and I also let you guys know I'm a judge. And I told you that. Okay, can I make one thing clear? These are not reports saying he will not be suspended. I will read you the reports. It's Emily Kaplan, very reputable. That was not a report either, what she said. Hold on. Mike, I need to please, if you don't mind, okay, because the tension between Cody and Zaslow is real, and real.

where they identify as journalists, it's real. Greg Cody is going to be proven to be instantaneously wrong in his opinion that Sam Bennett will be suspended, and therefore he's going to ask follow-up questions so he can be less wrong. So the first report from Emily Kaplan, she goes out of her way to say nothing confirmed yet.

So it feels more like an opinion, but I don't believe Sam Bennett will receive supplemental discipline for his contact with Anthony Solars in game one. Instead of telling us you don't believe, how about telling us when you know? Okay, why do we keep skipping over things that are believed and things that are opinions when I...

I reported. I reported. It was like 30 minutes ago. Your Honor. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. If you reported something, do you think I would have the gall to say based on what or I would trust your sources as a journalist? No. That's very insulting. I reported like 25 minutes ago that Sam Bennett will not be suspended. And I also reported there won't even be a hearing. So what are we still doing? Yeah.

You reported that based on what, though? Hold on a second. I just told you. I would never tell you my sources. You didn't even quote a source. He broke that news, Greg. That happened on the show when you were trying to figure out what the sound was on your computer. Yeah. That's my report. That's already been exposed as a fraud report.

Greg, when it was exposed on a fraud, I just lit up the video department, just went in there in a rage because I'm like, please tell me you got the spit take in the kitchen that I did. And all they got was that I was cleaning up the coffee because one, they got you on that on that prank.

An excellent prank. I did a spit take that spit coffee cartoonishly all over the kitchen. I made a substantive mess. Did you clean it up? Yeah, that's what they got. They got the picture of me cleaning it up. This one's a little bit stronger from Chris Johnston of The Athletic. Sam Bennett is not expected to face any supplemental discipline for his hit on Anthony Stolarz during last night's game per sources. Okay, not expected. Is that a report? That is. He cites sources. He's reporting on his sources. Oh, okay.

Which is something. What if they expected it, though?

Again, that report right there. That's a journalist, just like me. All right. That guy is saying not expected. Right. I've already told you it's not happening. Information people are valuable. Information is currency. You see what's happening with Adam Schefter. What? You laugh. Zaslow's to news first. It's why he's a rising star at ESPN. And I'd argue...

I'd argue a rising star in the journalism business because he breaks news like that. 30 minutes ago, he told you... I don't know why you're laughing. I mean, that feels insulting. I don't know what you're doing there.

I'll give you an example. It was widely reported that the championship race was coming back to Homestead for the NASCAR Cup Series. But it was only until this morning, eight minutes ago, where it's been finally confirmed by ESPN. That's not good enough for me. We're going to have Ryan Blaney on in a couple minutes. I'm going to ask him directly to further confirm what's been talked about openly. Sure. As a journalist...

when we find out later in the day like the NHL announces there will be cuz you know that the NHL announces there will be no disciplinary action not even hearing for Sam Bennett it's also gonna say on television on ESPN as first reported by Jonathan Zaslow on the Dan Lebitard show because as a journalist you give credit to other journalists I will give you that hundred dollar bill I didn't have to give Dan if

ESPN reports that you broke that. Well, I don't have control of that, but that would be bad journalism. If I don't get credit, I don't have control of what other people do. ESPN famously doesn't credit people all of the time. They have to give Zaslo credit for it to be a breaking report that you respect. And, and, and by the way, the way that you answer my question, uh,

I know you wanted to make your own point about the NHL. He didn't make a report. He gave his opinion. Should I do it again? I'll do it again to clarify. He made a report. There wouldn't even be a... He gave an opinion. There wouldn't even be a... Just like I gave an opinion that he would be. He's gaslighting you. Should we clarify? I could do it again right now. Just everybody's ears are open. Okay, go ahead. Do it again. I am reporting. Is that my camera? I am reporting. My opinion. I am reporting. No, no, no. That's your report. Don't talk over his report, man. That's your report.

My report is that Sam Bennett will not be suspended and won't even have a disciplinary hearing with the NHL because it's a waste of everyone's time. I am reporting that. So when it is confirmed by the league later on today, Zaslow had it first. He did. It's indisputable. Everybody.

Everyone heard it live. We were first to this. I'm still unclear on gaslighting. First of all, the way the NHL usually works is that if he's not suspended, they're not going to report he is not being suspended. If he were being suspended, that is something they would announce officially. I don't have control over that. We will get back to this, I'm sure, many times over because these two do not think of journalism the same. I don't call it a report when I'm just giving my opinion. I didn't report that he would be suspended. That wasn't my opinion. That wasn't my opinion.

I didn't report it. He reported it correctly. Okay. He got it. He got it. It hasn't been announced yet. It's not known yet. It will be known and you will be instantaneously wrong because you didn't believe his report. Like it wasn't a report. Let me explain to you the difference between a report and opinion. Let me explain to you. Can you explain what a gaslight is for journalism right here? My opinion is that he should not be suspended. That's an opinion. Okay. I learned that in journalism school, University of Florida.

My report is that he will not be suspended and there won't even be a hearing. Okay, based on...

Based on my sources. That's where he's got you. Okay, but in journalism, if you cite a source, even if you don't name him or her... I would never do that. Right, of course, because you're a journalist. I would go to prison before I named a source. But it's still usually, it's de rigueur in journalism. Now you're using words I don't understand. You went to Santa Fe. When you're citing a source, generally you say...

a source within the NHL front office, or you say a Panthers source, you cite someone. I do things differently. Okay, that's fine. And by the way, I want to make it clear, I have no vested interest in this. I'm fine if Sam Bennett doesn't get suspended. More power to him. Sounds like this is a house money game for Bennett, right? Like, he can just do whatever he wants. He should be suspended. Like, go crazy. Right? Yeah.

You know, if he throws an elbow at the other goalie and he doesn't get suspended, more power to him. Ryan Blaney is joining us now. I'm sorry that happened to you. I mean, I'm sorry. What happened? I want to hug him. He had a very small window to do something there. I am now officially, and our show is officially friends with Ryan Blaney because we are now into racing. It's been fairly shocking. Well, we've been into racing for a long time. We have been?

Race. It was a race joke. You've been into racing for a long time. Okay, thank you. You think that Ryan Blaney got that? That was for you. Thank you, but we're onboarding a guest here. I appreciate you making a private joke about race. All aboard. All aboard is what you just... Yeah, you said onboarding. I'm like, all aboard.

Ryan Blaney stepping onto the SS Levitard. He really deserves a better intro. The Cody's, ladies and gentlemen, they're sore from dancing this weekend. I've got a heavy-tongued producer, Ryan Blaney. Do you ever have a family around you that you've been carrying in your economy that burdens you every day?

Well, thanks for having me, guys. That's a heck of an intro. I appreciate it. Back on the show. Thanks again for having me. No, luckily I have not had a family member who has burdened me too much. Okay. Go ahead, Jez. Do you ever find any of the guys on your team, they talk too much in your ear while you're just trying to concentrate on racing? No.

Yeah, no, I, I, as sometimes I feel like, uh, I've kind of always been one that prefers silence over too much talking. Um, I've, uh, you know, I like, I like, uh, communication when it's helpful. Um, but sometimes it's just talking just to talk, but, uh, no, I don't, I'm not going to call anybody out, but I think we've all had that to where it's like, what's the point of this conversation going? And are you just saying words just to say them? Uh,

But luckily, I don't have to deal with that. Hold on. So you're telling me that your communication with your team is such in the panic and the heat of all these moments and you need silence that you've never in all of your life led your team by yelling back, hey, somebody shut up. I don't shut up. Somebody's talking too much. Shut up. I won't say I don't go about it in that way. I think I just say less talking.

And that's really all. And then it gets resolved. You never want to yell at anybody, right? I mean, you're all out of group and you, you know, it's just like, all right, let's talk and then we can go off.

The last time we spoke, it was before Homestead, and I asked you, do you think a meteor is going to strike your car? And you said something to the effect of, well, I don't think I'd be that surprised the way that the season's going. You were running a great race at Homestead, and then your car just blew up when you were leading the pack. And since then, your luck has somehow got worse. So, Ryan Blaney, same question for Kansas this weekend. Are you going to get struck by a meteor? You know, I think, you know, I was watching the replay from Homestead, and

I mean, call me crazy. I feel like a meteor went through our grill and hit the radiator and made the car blow up. So I think you spoke that one into existence. So, um, if you want to say a lightning strike and if I get struck by lightning, then I think you're the say all end all, you know, and you can, you can pretty much judge the future, but, uh, hopefully it gets a little better. Uh, it's gotten a little bit better, which is nice. We've been able to actually finish some races, so that's good. So it's a start. Uh,

Hopefully that continues. You were really hard on yourself because it does feel like the pendulum swinging a little bit in your favor, but Texas Motor Speedway, a lot of people are talking about that track, that it's terrible. There were cars just spinning out because they were just driving. And you had single car accidents and it was just such a random race. You were highly critical of Texas Motor Speedway saying it's probably the worst track.

How do you, when you're going through such a difficult stretch and there are certain things that are out of your control and you start going the way, when things start trending a little bit more positive, in your mind are you kind of thinking, well what can possibly go wrong now?

I try not to think that way, like what can go wrong next. I really try not to be that way. But it always is like in the back of your head, right? Like, all right, what's next? You know, like we got the – nothing really can seem to go right and what's going to happen next. But I try not to be that way. But it's hard not to sometimes. But, yeah, Texas, you know, this past weekend was – that place is tough, man. They repaved it, you know, about –

yeah i think like 2017 and just the surface you know with racetracks like when you repave

uh the racetrack takes a while to kind of age to where you can race on it um competitively like at the speeds we are to get the track wide it's just as tough to do and that place just does not age so it's just kind of a single lane maybe two lanes and if you have step you know a foot you're you're wrecking and it's just a hard place to race and pass um i think that's what kind of gets drivers frustrated when there's nowhere to go and move around and um you know drivers

get frustrated by it. The fans, obviously it's not a good show for the fans to watch. So hopefully they can figure something out for that place to make it a little bit better because it needs something done to it.

Ryan, if I could get a little more help from you to make this just a little bit newsier, can you just follow me down this path and not think it got you journalism? Has Ryan Blaney ever said when talking back to his crew, you know, and saying less talking, less talking, does it ever, is it more often than not less talking, Carl?

Like that. It's one that it's one guy and it's not all of them. It's, it's one guy on your team and it's always Carl, man. You're hung up on this one. Uh,

Um, yeah, you know, uh, no, it's, it's, it's not just one guy. Um, you know, it can be, it can be multiple. Um, it's unfortunate. No, I don't even know if you have a Carl. I'm not trying to get you to get anybody, but when you talk about things happening, you're happening to your car. Do you have a worst ever experience in your car? Um,

I mean, when they catch on fire, it's not fun. Um, that sometimes happens. Uh,

So that's probably the worst. I mean, you know, we wreck and stuff and some wrecks are harder than others, but like fire, I think, right. Everyone is afraid of it. It's nothing you can really do about it. Um, except for get away from it as soon as you can. And it kind of takes us a while to get out of the car, get stopped. And so that's the worst case scenario is catching on fire. And, um, and then just, it kind of goes into panic mode, but, uh, yeah, that's, that's something we try to avoid.

I know that you, Ryan, are probably very excited about the Netflix series coming out. So...

When you watch it back, is there any moments that you think back and you're like, man, I wonder if Carl said this about me behind the scenes. And I really want to watch Netflix to see the real story of what went on that day. And like, do you think you're going to catch anyone in anything? Have you been anticipating any moments? You're like, I wonder what really happened there. Let me see if I can catch them in something. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I'm excited for that to come out. Yeah.

you know, heck it comes out tomorrow, you know, May 7th and, um, season two, it's, it's going to be really fun. Um, I've seen little bits of it. I didn't want to watch the whole thing yet, uh, before it came out. But, um, yeah, I mean, I, I know the stuff that I was in, right. I was there for it. I know kind of how all that went, but other guys like they interview other drivers or things like that. Um, I am curious about, you know, how did they think of a certain situation that they were in, um,

um you know whether i'm involved in it or not like i wonder kind of how they thought about that so i am curious to see from that side because i don't know what anyone else is thinking and uh you never know what's going to come out but the bits i've seen it's really really good um i know people like the first season and i think this one was even better from the clips i've seen of it so uh yeah they did a good job i appreciate netflix for doing that and showing like an inside look of

The drivers, the teams, the week-to-week stuff, the highs and the lows of the sport, that's always interesting for people to see. And, you know, you've seen it a lot with other sports, you know, from the quarterback show, receiver, full swing. You know, I think it's you got to give people more and more of like showing a little bit more behind the scenes. And I think this show definitely does that.

I would never – you're an honest man, obviously, a very honest man. You're on the up and up. You would never do anything to skirt the rules in NASCAR. But NASCAR, notoriously, teams try to get around the rules a little bit, right? Which is why you guys have so many different checks on the different cars. And even after you check the car, maybe you go and like, oh, well, let me see if we can tweak this, tweak that. Kind of get around the rules. I wouldn't call you a cheater. You're not. You're an honest man. But those dirty rod cheaters that you race against, I mean, they're up to something. You think watching this show you're going to be able to find out maybe some –

some tricks of the trade, maybe some things that they're doing to their cars that you can implement on your cars, or is it not helpful in that way? You know, at NASCAR, honestly, motorsports in general is a unique sport from that regard. Like the gray area of the rule book. You're all cheaters. Not you, but everyone is. Everyone is. Everyone is. There it is. That's what I was looking for. Everyone is. Everyone's a cheater. Everyone's a cheater. Yeah.

If you're not cheating, you're not trying. That's good journalism, Billy. Good journalism. He said it. It's only cheating if you get caught. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's the thing. And

It's different than other sports, right? Like, you know, there's controversy and, you know, other sports, what is like in the rule book or not, or what's in that gray area. Our sport just has a bigger gray area because the cars, there's so many things on them that there's only so many rules and everyone always tries to manipulate, you know, little things. But I'll tell you to answer your question on if I would learn something from watching the show on that regard.

No. If you're pushing the gray area, there's no cameras around. They're not going to film that. So that stuff gets done in a dark room in the back of race shops. And no one ever knows about it but that team. Have you ever considered taking steroids? No.

No, that would not help me at all. I mean, aesthetically, like for appearance. What do you mean? Yeah, just for appearance. Yeah, I would love to break out. What do you mean? I think everyone would know something's up, dude. I'm a tiny guy. I walk around like a buck 40. And if I all of a sudden showed up weighing like 170, 180, just juice to the gills, I think people would know what's up.

So no, I would not do that stuff. But would that be a problem? It would not give me a competitive advantage. But would that be a problem? Like, who cares if they notice that you're looking kind of jacked? Who cares?

I do. I don't want to be pumping that stuff in me. All right. Well, you might. And that might be for health reasons or you might not care about the look of someone cheating by using steroids. But I would like everyone at ESPN and Fox and everywhere else to grab the sound of Ryan Blaney. We got the gotcha journalism. It was from the journalist Billy Gill that got him to say it. Ryan Blaney, as Miami Homestead comes to town and he's bringing the whole as this whole thing.

comes to Miami. Well, next year for the championship race. Ryan Blaney. We need him to confirm those reports, though. We'll get to that in a second. But Ryan Blaney, before he does that, has said everyone in his sport is cheating. That's news. Hey, man, everyone does.

Everybody does. Double down. It's just part of it. What would be the advantage of juicing? And if that's not really a competitive advantage, what is considered a competitive performance enhancer in NASCAR other than what you can do to the car? Like, do you have a double shot espresso and then that makes you like too rowdy? Like, how would you actually improve the driver's performance with something foreign? Yeah, man, that's a good question. Like, I really don't know. At all? No.

Yeah, maybe I guess. Try that. LASIK? Like would LASIK be one? LASIK, eye surgery? I mean, gosh, but that's not like illegal. You know, you could do that. It could have been one then.

Right. Yeah, it could have been. But no, I really don't know. Like, I mean, getting bigger and stronger is like as opposed to like, you know, when the steroid thing was big in baseball, you know, and help those guys do what they need to do at the plate, you know, and that was beneficial for their job. But like being big and strong is not as much of a.

it doesn't really help you any driving a race car. Like, you know, we work on different parts of our body to be efficient in the car. Like, you know, a lot of heat trading and, uh, you know, stamina, stuff like that, controlling heart rate. Like, so being like muscular and big, it wouldn't really help. So I really don't know. Like you said, LASIK might be P1 and maybe I get, my eyes get worse every year. So I might have to jump

jump on that train at some point. Ryan, we just had the Miami Grand Prix down here. How would you describe the relationship between your sport and F1, and why is NASCAR better? Yeah, I mean, hey, as a racer, I'm a fan of all types of motorsports. Like, I watch F1, I watch motocross, IndyCars, dirt sprint cars. Like, I just like racing. And for some reason, like, it's a, like, some fans across the country and world, like, they butt heads whenever

When it comes to like, oh, this is superior. I hate this other form of racing. It's like, well, to me, if you're a fan of motorsports, you're a fan of motorsports. I mean, I'm biased that I think we put on better races as far as like passing races.

competitive cars each week. F1 is spectacular from the engineering side. The drivers are amazing. I wish F1 was a little bit more competitive. You see more passes. You see a little bit different variation of winners. I wish F1 was a little bit different in that regard, but I respect the hell out of it and those guys that do it. I just think we have a little bit more

dynamic as far as the race ability and the excitement of cars passing each other and battles and different winners. I think that's, I think people like to see that. I don't like this. I mean, I like you, Ryan, you seem like a nice guy, but I don't like this. We're trying to make you the bad boy of motorsports here and you're complimenting F1. I mean, it's very easy to take them out. Hey, F1, you drove 57 laps. That's a joke.

Like, 57 laps? Get out of here, F1. Trying to get you on steroids. You don't want to take steroids. You have your foundation that helps people. Like, what's your deal, guy? Like, come on. Ever heard of the intimidator Dale Earnhardt? Like, come on. That's scaring people. You can't be those people. I'm sorry. I'm not a dick. I just can't do it, man. You're cursed. That's a start. We're getting there. There it is. You know what? Here we go. Ryan Blaney. Ryan, Ryan, Ryan, Ryan. What's your favorite curse word?

Oh, man. Can I say anything on your show? Anything you want. Well, nothing affects me. Say your favorite. Yeah. I mean, I think it's hard to beat. Yeah, it's a good one. Hell yeah. It's a good one.

Yeah, Ryan Blaine, yeah! Hall of Famer. There's so many different variations you can use. What's your favorite? What's your favorite? How do you say it? Hey, man, I'm only going to say it once. Come on, man. Carl, shut the f*** up. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you can say shut the f*** up. Dumb mother effer is probably a pretty good one. Yeah, this guy gets it. We like it. That kind of cuts to the core. Whoa, whoa, too far. Too far. Come on, Ryan. Right. Scale it back.

Sorry, sorry.

And y'all are trying to get me to call people fat. I just want you to confirm that the championship race is coming home. Said really, that's all I want. Well, yeah, you can just, if you, uh, I won't sit. No, I mean, everyone has their own things. What works for them? Uh,

So I don't judge anybody, man. Whatever you want to be. Whatever makes you happy. Excellent. What makes me happy is that you're coming back to Miami Homestead. Hopefully we'll get you in studio. Hopefully we can ride around in your car and you can become a legitimate friend of the show. Can you announce the news that you're bringing your whole party, your whole gang is coming down here again? Yeah, yeah. I'm excited to announce it on y'all's show. Like I said, I appreciate you having me. But yeah, we're...

We're moving the championship race. NASCAR is moving championship weekend to help the Miami Speedway in 2026, officially. November 6th through the 8th. It was at Miami for a long time. It moved to Phoenix for a handful of years, and now they're bringing it back to Miami. I know a lot of people are excited about that. I'm very excited about it. It's a great area. We would love to have you all out for championship weekend. It'd be a hell of a time. Officially, it's out there. People have been having rumors, but it

It's definitely happening. All right, so now we're friends with Ryan Blaney, and we're going to party with them in Miami home. So it's a big deal that this is coming down here. Ryan, thank you, sir. Good seeing you again. Appreciate your time. Yeah, thank you, guys. Best of luck this weekend.

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I want to continue with something that I can feel off our audience, and I've been trying and we've been trying to please our audience for a long time, and there's some tension around whenever it is that we're doing the content that we do every day, and Panthers talk breaks out in a way that's a little too aggressively in the weeds on Panthers, or out of nowhere, after a huge NBA night.

huge, just wildly fun NBA night. Hey, why are you guys talking to a race car driver? I don't know if this is happening. I can assume it's happening, but I'm going to tell you again and remind you that this is a show that celebrates the

Miami and we paused for a moment there before getting to the stuff from the NBA last night that I've been if I'm being totally honest avoiding for the following reason I was about as wrong in my analysis as I could be based on the results in the Clippers Nuggets series when I said the Clippers are good enough to win the championship I said it for the second straight year I said if they're healthy they're good enough to win the championship last year they were not healthy this year they were

That series made me wrong because Jokic took a ridiculous shot and Aaron Gordon saw what was in my lifetime the first thing I've ever seen, a bug

A buzzer-beating dunk just because the MVP of the league throws up a stupid, ridiculous shot that he's made twice before on Anthony Davis, but he airballs it and Aaron Gordon dunks it. I thought that was as wrong as I could be. That's as embarrassing as it can be. Except if you listen to yesterday's show where my analysis was, Aaron Gordon can only dunk. I just saw OKC lose exactly the way the Clippers would have beaten them by being a veteran team against a young team and savvy and...

Amazing, and that game was the best, obviously, of the night. The Nuggets are champions. That's the best offensive player I've ever seen. Shea Gilgis-Alexander can challenge with his free throw, but he's gonna have to dethrone that ogre, and no one shuts that down. That does not get shut down, and so Amin, I ask you, that basketball night, how magical was that for you? - Mm-hmm. Yeah, got it, okay. Yeah, thanks for getting to basketball about two hours into the show.

You know, pretty decent night. Mike just showed me a pretty interesting stat from last night. Two NBA underdogs of nine plus points won outright on the same day in the playoffs for the first time in the last 25 years last night. That's insane. That is insane. That is crazy. Yes, because both the Nuggets and the Knicks were going in heavy underdogs into their series against teams that had been rested and waiting for them.

And they pulled it off. And I was actually trying to think about, Dan, what was more improbable. I know watching the Knick game, especially in the second half, the way the shot selection was going for the Celtics. I said it before the game. I said, I think the Celtics are going to win in five because they're going to have that one game where they can't hit a three and they will not adjust. I had no idea that it would happen that night. Meanwhile, the Nuggets-Thunder game, I was certain it was over.

It was, at that point, just kind of like going through the motions, the semantics. You know, Fowler's going to make free throws, Fowler's going to make free throws, and then at some point we're just going to dribble it out. And Jokic has this little flurry, and then the Thunder make the mistake of fouling up three a little too early. That was crazy!

But I'll tell you what, I give Mark Dagnon a lot of credit because he said, that's on me. The players executed what we do. This is our culture. We like doing that. We probably started a little too early. That one's on me. Which is, by the way, every coach's creed is, hey, man, we have a game plan. I want you to execute the game plan. Now, if we execute the game plan and we lose, that's my fault. I can wear it. But if we don't execute our game plan, that's something completely different. Can I ask you what would have happened in that spot today?

If they don't foul up three there with 12 seconds left. And for context, Nuggets have no timeouts and Jokic is not in the game. He's waiting at the scorer's table. The Nuggets have the ball down by three. 12 seconds. The clock is ticking. If they decided, no, no, no. We don't want to foul here because, you know, the Nuggets without Jokic on the floor are an all-time terrible NBA team. What would they have done there, the Nuggets? So, Dagnolz...

philosophy is we foul up three.

The part where he said that was on me is that we fouled up three in the backcourt. Like, we shouldn't have fouled that early, that far away. Yeah, they only let like one second take off the clock. Yeah, one second came off the clock. So that's the part where I think he would agree with if he had it back. They still would have fouled up three. It just wouldn't have happened that early. Can't let Jokic back in the game. Yeah, I mean, I get it. But again, if Chet Holmgren hits free throws, then we're probably not having this conversation right now.

It was great. But Dan, there were three things last night from that game that I never thought I'd see. If I could, could I go through them with you? Number three. An NBA player telling his coach not to review that call. Never thought I'd see that. Shea kills his Alexander, grabs Jokic's arm. The bench doesn't see that part. They call for a review and Shea's like, no, no, don't review it, don't review it. But it's too late. They've already requested it. Number two.

Russell Westbrook making the right play in the clutch. In America, I thought he was going head over heels straight to that rim. Just going to barrel into it. And instead, he looked up and he saw Aaron Gordon in the wing and he threw it. I said, what?

Shout out to Russell Ashbrook. And number one, the number one thing I never thought I'd see in my life came after the game. Ernie Johnson asking a Dan Levitard-ass question. He asked Jamal Murray a question that took about two minutes and 20 seconds to get out. The best thing they did on Inside was they replayed just Jamal Murray waiting for the question to end. And he's just like kind of, he's nodding and he's closing his eyes and then he's looking around. And I just thought, wow.

Ernie's learning from Dan. How about that? Never thought I'd see it. That's funny. By the way, should Aaron Gordon get a statue? Depends. Do they win a title this year? Not yet. But if they do... Not yet. Not yet. Okay. I'm just curious. I gotta tell you, Westbrook...

Making that pass to Gordon at Oklahoma City, the crowd that gave him a standing ovation as he checked in yesterday, seemingly the only fan base that actually loves him, likes him, loves him, for him to pass up attacking the basket for the game winner, instead passing it out to Aaron Gordon?

one of the most shocking NBA plays I've ever seen. I want to ask Amin and pick your brain because you know the history of the game so much. Aaron Gordon, I guess, was a missing piece and is perceived as a surprising missing piece. He's probably not the most surprising active missing piece in the league. I think maybe in terms of all-time history, that actually might be Derek White for Boston, what he did for Boston in that acquisition. In terms of that tier, Aaron Gordon, Derek White, are

Who else in the history of the game have been more surprising championship contributors? I'm guessing you're going to harken back to a time where there wasn't the superstar era and super teams and there were just role players that were massive for guys. No, I'll give you two names. One guy is active as well and one guy from the past. The guy from the past, Derek Fisher. Out of a small school, Little Rock, Arkansas. He wasn't heralded. He wasn't like...

physically gifted. He was short and stout, but he was absolutely a difference maker on, what, five titles in L.A.? So Derek Fisher's one. The one who's active is Gary Payton II because this is a guy that everyone said, not an NBA player.

Like, not just, I don't know if you can win with him. It's like, this guy's not an NBA player. He's a 6'3 guard who can't shoot and really can't handle the ball. He defends very well, but offensively, where do you put him? And the Warriors said, we'll make him our power forward on offense. And he absolutely played a huge role in that 22 championship team. Well, I don't know what Mike Ryan is doing this with the—

the tier of Aaron Gordon. Is that fourth best player on a champion? Because the Aaron Gordon... I think he's the third best player on a champion. Okay, let's see. Okay, maybe third best player on a champion. When the Lakers won the championship with Lamar Odom as their fourth best player, that's the tier I'm talking about. And so when your third or fourth best player is Aaron Gordon, and Aaron Gordon was the best player in Orlando...

And when he was, they were a sub-500 Orlando team. No? I mean... They had a couple years where they weren't sub-500. It clearly wasn't good enough to be a number one. But it was a top three pick. As was Lamar Odom, by the way. So that's why those guys, I kind of feel like they just landed. They finally found the right place for them. Maybe not as a franchise player, but as someone who's a contributor. Whereas Peyton and Fisher are guys who are like...

This is the guy? That's the missing piece? Well, I guess to whittle it down, what I'm trying to say is when they acquired Aaron Gordon, very few people were like, oh, that's going to get it done. That's going to put him over the hump. It was met with a lot of skepticism. Like, that's not going to fix it. But of course, but none of us knew what Jokic was there then, and none of us did. Nobody did. And now what I'm watching, this is...

I mean, this is the part I want to untangle with you because what I'm watching from Denver has at its center something that for in my lifetime is an unprecedented thing. Who very often makes Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon or players like them a lot better than they actually are to win a championship because holy shit, that's the best offensive thing I've ever seen. So how good is Aaron Gordon? Well, probably as good as get a lot of third guys, put them in there. And if Jokic is the one throwing them lobs.

My guess is they're going to be as good as Aaron Gordon. A dunk champion, like a specific skill set. How much better? This is one game against OKC, but OKC now has to go through a champion. And what they have to do is go through that guy. Chet Holmgren, you look awfully... You're great. Your defense is great. But Chet Holmgren, you look awfully thin against that guy. Yeah, but I mean, again, at the same time, I think Oklahoma City's defensive game plan worked for most of the night. Their game plan was...

He's going to beat us. He's going to score 40, 50, whatever. He's not going to make everyone else better. He only had, I believe, two assists on the night last night. It worked all the way up to like three minutes left in the game. Again, Dan, I'm watching that game. There was nothing that indicated Denver's got to run in them and they're making a push here. But take me through the late game situation, okay, because the legacies that are defined this time of year, a road win from a champion here is exactly how you put a young, great team –

In a vice grip on how it is you not go say OKC out when OKC's been the best team in the sport the entire season.

And is now going through Jokic is a champion. Take me through the late game situation that makes it so that OKC just lost a game, people are saying, because their coach gave one away and he's playing against the team that fired its coach and is going after a championship because they're saying we don't need any coach. That bad guy, that guy was making it shitty around Jokic and we needed to get the smell of that out of the room. Well, I mean, I think there's a lot going on. When you want to talk about Denver, you know, David Adam talked about how

everyone kind of stayed together. He said, even as we were kind of talking in those huddles and being emotional, it was all about

what can we do better? Not like, hey man, you gotta do, it wasn't a lot of finger pointing. And I think that happens in part because you lose a czar of a leader in Michael Malone. It becomes more collaborative maybe than it was before. You gotta give Coach Adelman credit for fostering that environment. We talk about the Thunder. Again, the up-filing, up-three thing played a part. It wasn't the whole part. They gave up some easy baskets. Jokic

kicked it up a notch. He went 4 of 6 on a 12-2 run in the last, what, nine minutes of the game? So, like, he's a great player. You're not going to bottle him up forever. I think what it is is the Thunder played an easy opponent in the first round.

And now you're playing against a team that can legitimately beat you. And there's a difference there because it comes down to execution on both sides of the ball, and you can't let your foot off the gas. And they did that at the end. They played perfectly for 44 minutes. That's exactly how a young team loses to a champion. That's how you go. But thankfully, it's not one and done. There's six more games, perhaps. I think it's a pretty massive error.

The fouling up three there with Jokic waiting at the sideline. I'm stunned that... With no time out. I am stunned that Amin is sitting here and not crying foul the way the internet is at the mishandling of a late game situation because you're having the perspective of, no, the players decided that game. Yeah, because...

- Yes, it was a mistake. Yes, it made things more difficult. It wasn't like Jokic came in and hit two threes and that's how they lost the game, right? - They're an historically awful team when Jokic is not on the floor and the game was on the line. - I get it. I'm not saying that I would have fouled in that situation. I'm saying when he says our culture, our philosophy is we foul up three.

And he says, that one's on me that we fouled that early. But he wasn't saying it's on me that we didn't change our philosophy in that moment, which is what should have happened. No. I mean, he won 68 games, dude. That's the thing. That's the thing. 68 games. And you win one in Denver, and then all of a sudden you got it back. That's the crazy thing when people say, oh, home court. It's like, okay, you lost home court. All you got to do is win one over there, and all of a sudden you got it back.

I know, but that's a worst-case scenario for OKC in the second round of the playoffs. To have to win one at Denver? No, what I'm just saying is what happened last night. I mean, basketball heads like you look at OKC and say, yep, have all the things you need to beat Boston and win a championship. That team is ready to win a championship. Is it? Yes.

Okay, because last night starts, those guys have been giving fun interviews all year. They're a young team. It's great to watch them and they're fun. But now you got to beat that player on a team that doesn't even need a coach because they got that player. And what they did is got rid of the coach so that player would be unbothered by, hey, get that stink out of here. We know who runs this thing.

I just feel like, well, unless you're telling me that Denver's going to win four more, like three straight games here, like Oklahoma City's not going to win any more games. Like, guys, this is the playoff. I don't know how to explain this to you. It's not March Madness. Like, teams lose a game one at home and then come back and win that series. Now, if they lose game two, now we can have this, oh, my God, young team, what are they in deep shit conversation. They lost a game. I don't feel any more in jeopardy about that than the Celtics should or the Cavs should having lost their game ones.

You know, when you celebrate 50 years of Miller Lite, I had to bring in a Miller Lite aficionado, Greg Cody. I mean, no one says Miller Lite like Greg Cody. When I think of me and you, I think of us on a golf course. Where else are we at? I mean, on a cruise ship, in my backyard. At the beach. At the beach is a good one. What do we always do? We hear that...

Oh, yeah, yeah. And then what do we do? We toast. We clink. Nice little clink. The clink, whether it's the can or the bottle, there's something about the clink of the Miller Lite. Yeah, and it's not just how much we love it. It's the whole ritual of it. You know, the popping the top, the sound of that. The sound.

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