Shownotes Transcript
My wife walked out to me having sex with another woman. I was blackout drunk. I don't really remember much of that actual event. We haven't had sex together since. And it's been approaching a year. Yeah, exhale on that one. I know that wasn't easy. What in the world's going on? This is John with Dr. John Deloney's show, Taking Your Calls.
Real people calling from all over the planet, talking about your relationships, your marriage.
your kids, your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. If you want to be on the show, I would love to have you go to johndeloney.com slash ask. That's D-E-L-J-O-H-N-D-E-L-O-N-Y dot com slash ask, A-S-K. Fill out the form, let us know what's going on, and we'd love to get you on the show. A couple of things. I'm drinking this drink, this liquid death. The show's not sponsored by it. I just like it. But here's what I'm really excited about.
My new shirt. Rumor has it, rumor has it, that Nashville is getting a Major League Baseball team. My Astros have traded away. Everybody is happening. Nashville is getting a baseball team. And I can finally let it go. Just like, is it Ariel? Is she the one? Elsa. Elsa. I don't know. I'm tired. I'm done. I gotta be done. I haven't lived in Houston for a long time. Hey, if I could be a Cowboy fan, still, definitely.
I know, but I don't have a humongous tar tattooed right at the base of my neck. So I can change. I did almost get a Houston Astros H one time. Although it would work for me to be a Nashville Stars fan if that was the case. Oh my gosh. I'm a Dallas Stars fan. I will tattoo Nashville Stars.
On my chest. I'll copy yours when you have. Old English, everything. It'll be rad. Nashville, let's do this. Nashville Stars, come on. Let's make it happen. Let's make it happen. All right, let's go out to Hoboken, New Jersey and talk to Marcus. What up, Marcus? Hey, John. What's up? Good day to you, sir. You too, man. How we doing?
I'm doing probably better than I deserve. All right. That may be a low bar, right? I'm just playing. Tell me about it. So I'm going to get straight to the point, straight to the facts, John. So on a blackout drunk night in a big social event, my wife walked out to me having sex with
Another woman. I was blackout drunk. I don't really remember much of that actual event since since that happened. My wife and I, we've been going through therapy individually as well as couples therapy.
seeing psychiatrists, you know, and therapists as well. Day to day, things are as good as they can be given the circumstances. We still show a little affection, but we still function. She's a stay at home wife. I work extremely hard to provide. But ultimately, my question is, John,
What can I do outside of therapy and counseling to kind of rebuild a safe space for her? And a follow-up question to that would be what...
can I do to kind of, uh, maintain my, uh, physical needs without making her feel pressure because we haven't had sex together since, and it's been approaching a year and I take full responsibility for my actions. Um, and that has been, uh, you know, a really good thing for, for both of us, but those are my questions. Hey, um, I appreciate you being honest. Okay.
That's not an easy thing to do to just call some strange dude and just like lay it out like that. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, exhale on that one. I know that wasn't easy. It wasn't at all. I know. I know. Exhale one more time. How many times before you got married did you tell yourself you're never going to be that guy that she tells why?
I feel like I tried to convince myself that I would never do it. But deep down, you know, I've been so insecure my whole life. And to be honest, I wasn't ready to get married. But I do love her. And, you know, I'm convinced that she is the one. I just...
This is the first time I've ever really been honest with myself, John. There you go. So what I would tell you is even if you weren't ready to get married, you did, right? Yes. So there we are. So we're here. How long have you been married? Three years. We've been together a total of nine. Why did it take six years for y'all to get married? How are you still not ready even after six years?
I, for, for me, it was all about making things as perfect as possible. So I saved my money. No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. What were you waiting for? So,
All right. If I'm going to be completely honest, I wanted to put on a big show. I wanted outside people to see how big the engagement was, how wonderful our wedding was. And it took me that long to be financially in a position to be able to have a knockout engagement and post these pictures on Facebook and Instagram to kind of get the recognition from, to be honest, people that I...
Didn't even know. That's right. And that's what took so long. That's what took so long. And do you get how accidentally your wife just became a tool in your toolkit that you were using to build this big fancy picture for the outside world? Look how great Marcus is. I see it. I see it. And I would tell her if she was on the phone, yeah, but you married him anyway, right?
She played a part. She went along. She went with you for six years, waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting. She didn't turn you down when you wanted to make a big spectacle either, right? No. Yeah. So it's not like she's absolved of this. This is just the world y'all co-created where we're going to walk around with this big film projector that enters into the room before the real us ever shows up. And you get so focused on what's on that film projector that you forget to deal with the inside. And that is, I'm looking at another woman saying...
Ride or die till death do us part. I will stand in front of the bullet and you will be by my side and I'll be by yours. Come what come, I will be right here. And it's easy to get distracted when you're focusing on that image, right? Instead of dealing with reality. Right. So I guess here's like to drill all the way down. Man, you're like a guy I would love to spend just a long time just talking to and just like hear the whole story because I know there's some depth to it. And you sound like a guy who's, man...
You've probably done a lot of work over the last year, haven't you? Yes. I've tried so hard, man. I know you are. I've been trying so hard. Let me ask you a hard... Can I ask you a hard question? Of course. Okay. And listen, my man, it only works if you tell me the 100% truth, okay? Got it. Do you want to be married and build a life with this singular one woman or...
Are you working really hard to not be the guy that failed in this marriage? And my honest answer, I'm working real hard not to be the guy to fail. I've been working real hard not to be the demise of her because I know how much she loves me and I know how much of herself she's given up to be with me. Let me say this. That has happened. I'm all in. That has happened.
All right. So you're trying to prevent a fire that's already happened. You're walking around in a house that's burned to the ground and you're standing in the ash and you're looking for the fire extinguisher. It's already happened. If you're worried about hurting her, she saw you having sex with another woman. That's happened. Okay. She waited six years for you to say, all right, finally, I do. She's already been there.
The only way you come back from that level of, and there's infidelity in layers, and often the challenge with someone who's struggled, who's got cheated on, if you will, is the imagination of their partner with somebody else. Yes, it's a day-to-day thing. This is another layer. She saw it, right? Yeah, walk right out on it. And the hard part is I don't remember it at all.
Yeah. And, and, and honestly, that in a strange way, that makes it worse. Absolutely. Because she doesn't know what else you're going to do and forget. If you were able to say, okay, I've been telling you for a year. I don't remember. I do. I do. I do. I did. That is in a strange way is more comforting than, um,
I sometimes drink something, smoke something, snort something, whatever. Somebody puts something in my drink, whatever happens. There are places I go and I don't even remember what happened. I can burn our marriage to the ground and just be like, I don't even remember it. I understand how it comes off that way. I never thought about it that way. You're right. But here's the whole thing. None of that matters. Okay. If you want to take a knee in front of this woman...
Not so that you can save face not so that you don't have to go back to your family or look at your mama and eyes or look at your community or look at your dad shaking his head at you like he may have done your whole life like not for all that but you look at her and say I want to rebuild a life with you. What can I do today to make you feel loved? Because here's what she is feeling I'm be willing to bet and she's not on the phone so I'm just projecting into her mind, but I'd be willing to bet that
She sees you doing so much amazing work on you. And she sees you doing so much stuff for you. And you're still concerned what people in the outside world are going to think about you. And what I just imagine, I got a nine-year-old little girl. I just imagine her, my daughter standing in the middle of my living room saying, but daddy, I'm right here.
Wow. And I'm imagining your wife, and I know it's father-daughter. I made it weird just then. But I know your wife is standing in the middle of your house and saying, I see you roofing the house and painting the house and changing the carpet. I am right here. Do you get what I'm saying? Absolutely. Absolutely. I never thought of it that way. The honorable thing, if you don't want to be married to her, tell her.
and live in the aftermath, but there is not an amount of work you can do on you that's going to suddenly make her feel more beautiful to you. And there's not an amount of counseling and insight and dealing with family trauma and money you can make. None of that is going to make you get up and make her coffee in the morning because you love her and make you throw your phone away and have no social media because you don't care what the outside world thinks because I got her.
Right. And even if you don't feel that, you can work towards that. Those feelings come and go. Man, I've been married for a quarter century. It's part of it. They come and they go. That's where the discipline of just doing the next right thing is. It's kind of like exercise. Like there's a day I don't want to lift, but you just do it because that's what you're going to do that day. Right. But if you're out on her, man, what I would tell you is you've done all this work. Be a person of high integrity and tell her I'm out.
If you're in, then you take a knee in front of your wife and say, tell me what I need to do. What will make you feel safe in your own home? We've been together for a year. And I would tell her, you can't weaponize sex. If you say, I'm going to stay, sex and intimacy is part of a marriage. And it might take time and it might take healing and it might take a bunch of stops and starts. But retribution for a year or two years or five years, starving your partner sexually because you did this one thing, that's not going to work in a marriage either. That's about power, right? Right, right.
But if she is telling you, I still don't feel safe in this marriage, there's no way I'm going to sleep with you again. Right? Only you know that. Only she knows that. Right? I'm speculating here. Right. Right. I mean, you're spot on. So let me ask you, do you want to be married to her? I do. Yes. Are you willing to sacrifice your reputation and your ego and some egg on your face for a while to take your knee in front of your wife and say, I love you? And how can I love you today?
Absolutely. I feel like that will probably be one of the most freeing experiences that I've ever had in my life because my insecurities have bogged me down and have always got me in terrible situations my entire life. Tonight you sit down with your wife and you clear the table and you have nothing between the two of you. And I want you to tell your wife, the last year I've worked really hard. I've gone to a lot of therapy. I've seen a psychiatrist. I've done this. I've done coaching.
And I've done this for me. And starting today, everything about my marriage will be waking up and saying, how can I love you? And all I'm going to ask you, sweetheart, is you begin to do the same for me. Right. And listen, man, that's the only way it works. I understand. I understand completely. Thank you so much. No, thank you, man. You call anytime and we'll get you on. Appreciate you honoring me and all of our listeners with your bravery, my friend.
Thank you so much for the call. Hey, coming up next, a woman wonders if it's time to cut off the in-laws for good. We'll be right back. All right, here's a quick word about the best mattress in the world, Helix Mattresses.
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All right, we're back. Don't forget Kansas City tonight.
Come out you guys got need some redemption Kansas City y'all need some redemption tonight We're gonna do it as I'm reading this ad I'm reading this ad a few weeks early I think it's pretty close to sold out. We're getting close on Kansas City So there's tickets available come see us It's gonna be wheels off me and my buddy Dave Ramsey the money relationships tour cannot wait. I love love love Kansas City Even though y'all let the Eagles win. I love love Kansas City and we'll make it right tonight
Come check it out. All right, let's go to Akron, Ohio and talk to not so plain Jane. What's up, Jane? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? Outstanding. How are you? Oh, I'm just perfect. You know, that's why I'm calling you. I have no problem.
Yeah, obviously not. I've got tons of problems. What's your problems? Let them rip. Let them rip, Jane. Yeah, well, one of the biggest ones currently, my father and mother, my father-in-law have recently cut ties with us because we are just really hesitant to jump back into resolving a very long ongoing issue or issues that we've had with them since we were married about a year ago. What was the original issue?
Oh, dear. So I kind of wrote a summary and I can try to give you the story. There's just so much to the story. I'll start by also saying that I know what I'm about to say is going to sound like something straight off of Reddit, like something made it up. That's how we feel too. And it's our life. So I don't know. I'll trust you and honor the story. Go for it.
Yeah. So a little over a year ago, my husband and I got married. And while things were initially great with my in-laws, tensions began to rise midway through our engagement. I think my mother-in-law ultimately struggled with the transition of my husband leaving home. He still lived at home at the time. So she was upset that we were not spending enough time with them while he was still living at home, even though we were still coming over two to three times a week during the last two months of our engagement.
How old are you guys? So at the time, my husband was 22, about to be 23, and I was 24, about to be 25. Okay. So anyway, three weeks before the wedding, she completely lost it, and she actually physically attacked my husband and used horrible vulgarities to describe her feelings to him about me. She threatened to object to the wedding and told him that she was praying that we would break up. Why? Did she say why? Hold on. Let's let her know the story. Why? Why?
Yeah, so to the part where it sounds like I'm lying to you. No, no, no. Trust me. I've heard wild stories in my life. Yeah. She said that I was a master manipulator and I was trying to take my husband away from his family. Okay. And the reason she gave for this was because I acted uncomfortable in her home, but she didn't really correlate that to the fact that she was not treating me very nicely.
From the help doing engagement. Okay. So there's a whole bunch. Let's just pause right there. Okay. Let's just pause right there. Exhale for me. Yeah. Well, now listen, um, that's bonkers. Yeah, I agree. Okay. And even when another adult, especially somebody who's like a parent, a parent, a beloved one or a teacher or a coach, they can say stuff and do stuff. It's bananas. Yeah.
I don't know how or why there's still this nagging voice inside of us. It's like, are they right? Yeah, right. And so sometimes one of the most gracious things I can offer somebody, any of us can offer each other is just to look at somebody. And so I can't see you, but I'm hearing you. Jane, you're not crazy. Sometimes she'll do that. I know you do. I know you do. When this stuff happened, did your husband immediately intervene on your behalf?
He tried to the best way he knew how. Unfortunately, the behaviors of his mother and father were something that were normal to him. And I think he didn't really understand fully. You know what I mean? And it did cause a lot of issues for us. I'll be honest. And, you know, I'm so thankful that we fought for each other and we came through. But it was so, so hard because I did. I felt crazy and I felt like,
He was kind of unsure how to handle the situation fully. And since we've, we'll get into that. We've been trying to move forward, but yeah. So let me just, let me cut through all of this and just put this on the table. Unless your mother-in-law has called, preferably with your father-in-law by her side and said, hey, my 22 year old man, I looked at him like he was a little boy.
And you were taking my little boy and I went bananas. I'm sorry. Yeah. You didn't deserve that. I was crazy. I'm sorry. That won't happen again. I'm glad y'all are married. I'm glad y'all are working it out and figuring it out. And short of that, Jane, I rarely say this. She's out. No one, my mom, my dad, whoever included, is going to verbally assault my wife and hit me in the face. I'm not going to stick around for it.
And unless you come back to the table with, I was way out of line. I was wrong. Here's how this is not going to happen again. There's just some lines that you draw on the sand. Because here's what most of the time I hear this story. I'm going to lay a few things out. You tell me if I'm way out to lunch or if I'm right. You mentioned one of them. This is just how he grew up. This is normal to him.
And so you find yourself almost in a reparenting role with your own husband saying, hey, you can't do that. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it takes a minute. And God bless you for staying with him and y'all figuring this thing out together. But most of the time, there's a long lull. And then mom or dad just picks up the phone and kind of jumps back in as though nothing ever happened. Yeah, that's exactly what's going on. Somebody gets pregnant and suddenly, oh.
they're back in or somebody gets a new job and starts to move and it's like, Oh, is any of that happening? The first two. Yeah, there you go. Okay. So now they want back in.
Yeah. So to try to sum up, uh, over the course of the last year, like last spring and summer, we tried to continuously to reach out and talk to them. And every time we were met with hostility, they think they're blameless. They think that everything they did was justified in that we were the villains in the story. And so is his dad like that too? Or is dad just beaten down and goes along with whatever she says?
Correct. Yeah. What a coward. What an absolute coward. I agree. I know. Not my story. Not my story. Not there. Okay. Go ahead. We found out we were pregnant last September. And so at that point, we were like, oh, no, because we figured we knew that they wanted grandkids put that way. But we obviously were still dealing with the behaviors that we're talking about.
we're talking about. So we tried to invite them to meet us in a public place and we wanted to try to, you know, talk calmly, try to address their feelings, you know, try to talk about ours, try to reach common ground, if that makes sense. And that did not last long. They quickly resorted to yelling and accusing us of, you know, being the bad guys. And she actually, my mother-in-law left after
After about five minutes of them screaming at us, she left there and told us that they were happier not talking to liars. So that was... Okay. At that point, I was like eight weeks pregnant. Okay, but what is it about... Why won't you accept that for the period at the end of the sentence that it is? Well, I think the bottom line is that...
You know, obviously we love them and we don't want to just give them up and act like you didn't. They gave you up. I would agree with that. I would. But stop chasing. Stop chasing them. It's not easy, but it's simple. Yeah. You guys got to stop chasing them. They're telling you over and over. We don't want a relationship with you.
So much so that we will assault you, we'll scream at you, we'll lie about you. We don't want to be in relationship with you. You being two independent thinkers, two independent people. We do want you in relationship with us when we can control you and you do what we say and you make us feel good by all of your actions bowing to what we want. Then they want you in relationship. They do not want an independent couple
They don't want to be relationship. I mean, she got up and left and said, I don't want to be in a relationship with you. Yeah. And I also get, that's not how it's supposed to be. Yeah. And nobody is, there's nothing can get in the way of your grandkids. Here we are. Yeah. And their own ego or her like mental health disorder or her emotional challenges or your father-in-law's spinelessness.
that he hasn't looked at her and said, hey, you cannot hang out with him. I will go see my grandbaby, and I will be nice to my son's wife. It will cost you when you get home. Fine. I'm not giving this up. He could do that, but he's choosing not to. Yeah. And so I think there's this idea like we've got to live in reality. This is where we are. Has your baby been born? In reality, now I'm due in about a month. Okay. Can you do me a huge, huge favor here? I know this is crazy.
Can you not try to solve their problem right now? This is too special of a moment for you. I don't know. Unfortunately, we felt that way for most of the big life events. That's how our wedding was. I know. Now it's the baby too. So here's an exercise that I'm stealing from Terry Real. Okay. One of the great psychotherapists of my time. I want you to get a picture of your mother-in-law and I want you to put her at the kitchen table with you when you'll have dinner.
And then when you're talking about the pregnancy, you're talking about what we're going to do. I want you to look over at that framed picture and go, what do you think? Because we like having you with a seat at the table. And then y'all will both go, oh God. And you'll flip it. You'll immediately flip it over. But that's the entry to the practice of instead of trying to figure out what's the new right way I can say this or what's the new way I can tiptoe into the living room. What's the new way I can... It's not about you. She isn't well.
And so for the first time, are your parents in the picture? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We have a healthy relationship with my side. Amazing. So let's exhale. Let's grieve with your husband. Can we just put it out there, sit on the front porch, look out into the stars and just be like, I'm sorry. Yeah.
And let's be really, really grateful that we're fortunate and privileged to have your parents in the game, rocking and rolling, doing their part, loving you guys, supporting y'all. It's the best first time grandparents can do it, right? You know what I mean? And let's spend the last month just absorbed in each other and the madness and excitement that we're bringing a new baby home. It's hard. You know, it's very sad. It is.
I hate the statistics of, you know, the in-laws and evil daughter-in-laws. And I don't want that to be our reality. I didn't want any of this to be. Yeah. Not by your hand. Not by your hand, but in your lap. Here it is. Yeah. Yeah. Let's be sad for a bit. Write an imaginary letter to your mother-in-law. God help you don't send it. Have your husband write one to his mom and y'all read them to each other.
Let's have a miniature little ceremony in our living room. This is the last day they get a seat at our kitchen table because they're taking the joy out of what should be one of the most exciting, scary, terrifying, fun, joyful moments of our life.
I have a follow-up question, if that's possible. Real quick. I'm up against the clock. Go for it. Yeah. So we're currently... We started going to counseling, just the two of us, trying to kind of sort through all this. And it's kind of been an idea of my husband's that we could potentially still be around them in extended family settings for the sake of... No, no, no, no. Can I ask why you'd say no to that? What's the reason for that? Because...
they will poison the whole... We just feel like we've lost that entire set. You have. They took it from you. Yeah. And your husband has spent his whole life trying to solve his mom's issues and his dad's cowardice. And if aunts and uncles are amazing and awesome and don't carry your mom's same challenges and they want to meet you guys, that's awesome. Cool. Great. But if she won't even have more than a five-minute conversation with her pregnant daughter-in-law,
And her son, who's about to be a first-time dad, without screaming and yelling and stomping off, it's just going to blow those events up too. Yeah. Or you don't know the poison she's putting in the well, talking about to all the cousins and her brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles or whatever's on the side of the family. Oh my gosh, you don't know her. You have no idea. You know, she's just like, I'm opting out. I love you guys. Cousins, if you want to come visit the baby, you're welcome to. You're welcome to come.
I'd love to have you here. Y'all can come here to us. That'd be great. We'll send photos and we're not going to cut people off. Like I'm going to, I'll send photos. That's great. I'll send a monthly newsletter with Nick. I'll do all that. That's fantastic. I'm not going to drive over there. It's just not a safe place for us. She hit me in the face.
She called me a blankety blank blank call my wife a blankety blank blank blank. Yeah, i'm not gonna we're not coming there She screamed and made a spectacle in a public place called us liars and walked away from her own kid. I might do that That's cool. I've already grieved that at my house As for me and my house, we're gonna seek peace. We're gonna be sad that it's not with The people we thought were gonna be with us, but they opted out And so we're gonna control we can control and that is peace in our home And that means my side of the family is awesome. And if there's some great cousins or whatnot cool
But you guys are still trying to find a way. What's a way we can kind of be around them, but also they're telling you over and over again, we don't want to be in relationship with you, period. Let's be really sad and grieve that. Let's not find another angle to try to make. They've told you over and over and over again. And for whatever it's worth, I'm really, really sorry that happened. Coming up next, we're going to talk to a family trying to figure out how to navigate, how to approach a very, very sensitive topic.
With their oldest son. We'll be right back.
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Hey, Dr. John, how are you? Rocking on to the break, Dawn. What are you up to? I'm partying. Excellent. Good. What's up?
So I've got a question for you, and if it's okay, I'll ask my question first, and I can give you a little bit of background. Sure thing. Go for it. So my question is, how can my husband and I best navigate honesty and transparency with our oldest son, who is biologically mine but has been adopted by my husband, about his background while keeping him from feeling alienated from his siblings? Okay.
Tell me more. So when I was 22, I was raped. And as a result, got pregnant with my now six-year-old. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, it was. But through a lot of healing, I've managed to kind of cope with that. And so that's
As far as where I stand with all that, it's all good and well. But where I'm struggling is my husband and I, my husband's amazing. He adopted my son not long after we got married. That was like our second order of business. How old was your son? How old was he? When we got married, he was three. Okay. So he remembers our wedding. Where's bio dad?
He has never been around, never wanted to be around. And to be honest with you, I've never wanted him around. Did he sign over full custody? He's out, out, out? Yep. Yep. Was he prosecuted? No. We went through a really lengthy legal battle to get adoption done.
of my son. Sorry if I'm stuttering. I'm a little nervous. No, you're good. You're good. And this whole situation is a little stressful, but yeah, take your time. You're good. Yeah. So, um, we, it,
We could have prosecuted him. I chose not to. That was totally my choice. And I don't, you know, that's a different call. Yeah. But he, he did sign over his rights and has no access to my son. And my son has been legally adopted by my husband. We all have the same last name. Okay. So we have since had twins. So I have one year old twins as well. And we, we,
want to do the best that we can by our son, by being honest and transparent with him. He knows that he's adopted and he has very positive memories around like our final court hearing and the way that we've, um,
framed it to him is actually language I've taken from you listening to your show. We've always explained it to him that my husband chose him and was so excited to be his dad because he's so special. But as far as his biological dad, he doesn't know anything about any of that yet. And I want to be honest with him, but I want to do it at the right time in the right way. And I don't want him to feel different from our other two children. Yeah. I, I, I right now he's six. You said, say that one more time.
He is, yeah. The burden of that story is squarely on your shoulders. It's not on him. Okay. Okay. The angst you feel starting to kind of well up is in your chest, not in his yet. Okay. Does he know that you made him with another guy and that guy made some really bad choices?
No, he doesn't understand that like on a like anatomical, like biological level. He doesn't understand that. He knows that when he was born, it was just me and him and that I met his dad, my husband, when he was a toddler. But he doesn't know anything beyond that at this point. So you would probably, not always, but probably be astonished with what he does and doesn't know?
Okay. Okay. It's just, it's amazing to me how kids pick stuff up. And they pick up glances and eyebrows. Like they're just, that's what they do, right? They're very attuned. And that also means you had a pretty stressful pregnancy, fair? Very, yes. So he bathed in that, if that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Like he lived inside of a very stressful situation.
Sure. Okay. So as you begin to have the body parts talk and the, um, the mommy parts and the daddy part, like as you begin to have that conversation, um, I'll give you a couple of like guidelines on, here's a couple of lines just to have in your pocket. And here's a couple of, I would call them principles, just like some guiding principles. Okay. Um, that will navigate this, but let me like rest in peace. Okay.
Six is way too early for this conversation. That's kind of what I assumed. Way, way. So I actually got a heads up on just kind of like a high level of what your call was about. And I called two different amazing people.
Dr. Lynn Jennings and Dr. Michael Gomez, two very accomplished, accomplished. Both of them are mentors of mine, but very accomplished psychologists and therapists, respectively, who work with, I mean, in this situation over and over and over again. This is what they dedicate their lives to. And so both of them gave me very similar, like very, like just right down the line. Here's some very clear things.
about how you can just walk through this process with your head held high, okay? Okay. Is that cool? Yeah, absolutely. So before we get going, if I tell you something, say, I promise I'll believe you. I promise I'll believe you. By the way, that's ridiculous. You've done a pretty remarkable, amazing job with this little one. Oh, thank you. And there's that haunting moment
Yeah. And I want you to know that he doesn't carry that. I appreciate that. Okay. Okay. He will at some point, but he doesn't. Okay. I don't want to like lie to you when he's 12, it's gonna be tough. But right now he doesn't carry that. Is he so excited to be a big brother? Oh, he loves it. Loves it. One gift you can give him. And I learned this from an old counseling professor of mine. She was amazing. Call them his kids.
Okay. Or use his brother and sister. Like, hey, you're a brother and sister. And it gives a six-year-old, especially an untethered six-year-old like he is sometimes, it gives them the greatest gift in the world, which is purpose, autonomy, and ownership. Okay. Okay? So that's not what you called, but that's just a thing like, hey, these are your brother and sister. Do you know what you are? A big brother. Okay.
And amazing, amazing. Okay. So when the conversation comes up, when he one day says, but who put the baby in you, mommy? When he asked that question, you say, another man did. Where is he? He made some bad choices. And so he doesn't get to see us anymore. And really quickly, if your husband is there,
Your son's adoptive father, this amazing guy, if he's there, great. If he's not, great. But here's a remarkable line that Dr. Jennings gave me that I love it and I will repeat it a thousand times. You ready for this line? Yeah. When your husband takes a knee in front of this little boy and says, I wasn't there, I wasn't a part of making you, but I got here as fast as I could. And then the exhale. Yeah.
And then you hug him and say, I got to you as fast as I could. Because you're my son. And that's a conversation for a six-year-old, an eight-year-old. Things get more complex when they're nine and 10, but you're probably in the range of 16, 17, 18. Sometimes you have a sophisticated 14 or 15-year-old. Sometimes it's a little bit slower, but you're getting older when you get into, all right, we need to go out and have a hard conversation.
Okay. And by the way, even then, there may come a time when, I mean, think about it this way. Think about if your twins came to you and said, hey, will you walk me through the night you and dad rocked it onto the break of dawn and got pregnant? Like, you're not going to do that, right? You'd be like, shut up. And so similarly, just because it was a tragic circumstance, we're still not going to walk through step by step by step.
Okay. But there may come, there will come a time when you sit down and say, dad, it's made some bad choices. I know, I know. You always say it's bad choices. What does that even mean? All right. When I'm ready, I'm going to have this, I'll tell you. And we're going to go out and we're going to sit somewhere in a corner booth somewhere and I'm going to tell you what happened. Okay. And it, this can be a harder conversation. And I would strongly recommend as you enter into that world, you sit with a counselor. And what I would say is you're going to rehearse that one.
Okay. Just to make sure I've got a couple of clear statements, but you're, I mean, you're talking several years from now. Here's the magic important part. Okay. When your kid is six, seven, eight, nine, and 10, the shorter the conversation, the better. Okay. Most adults want to have big, too long hour conversations, unpacking what happened and why. And oh my gosh, I'm so grateful you're here. I'm going to tell you the details, but I want you to know your report. He made some bad choices. And so he got in trouble and he's not allowed to come here anymore.
And your daddy wasn't a part of making you, but he got here as fast as he could because he could not wait to be your daddy. Big hug. Conversation's over. Great. And if you have an astute six-year-old or seven-year-old like I did, he may ask a couple of follow-up questions. Awesome. But I'm going to let him ask the next follow-up questions. What did he do? Oh, he did some grown-up stuff. We'll talk about it one day when you're older. Okay.
Okay. Now here's the big magic moment here that I need you to metabolize, okay? You're going to want to get, I hate to use this language, but hopefully you know what I mean. It's not perfect language, but you're going to want to get this out in an effort to be quote unquote as transparent and honest as you can with this kid. Yeah. But if we're really honest, what we want is you want to get this out and I kind of want you to carry this now.
Okay. And I want you to never put that on him because it's not his to carry. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Here's where this, go ahead, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to, you go ahead. You're good. This will get hard. And this is me just being as honest as I can. I know we don't have a lot of time. I normally wouldn't tell you this in the first session. Okay. I would tell you later, but this will get hard as he starts to look like that guy.
Yeah. And did you date this guy? Was it a one night stand? Was it an out of the blue? Like, no. So he was with a, um, a group of friends that I was also with. I have, I had never met him before and he kind of,
Oh, God. I'm sorry. Okay.
just gotten the message that secrets are, they'll destroy families. And so what I, what my, my fear is I don't want my son to be an adult one day and feel like I lied to him or, um, you know, if he doesn't have a clear picture of the situation that I kept him from his biological dad or anything like that. No, no, no. Here's, here's your question is so great. And I'm going to give you the words of Dr. Jennings. And I love this.
When they're young, always tell the truth and tell them something they can hear that they can actually digest, right? But here's the big, because the six-year-old is not going to understand what rape and assault is. Yeah. Right? Doesn't even know the body parts yet. Like, doesn't even know how that works yet. So they're not going to know that. And it would be overwhelming for a six-year-old to just be said, like, there was a really violent interaction and, right? Yeah. So here's the magic line that Dr. Jennings gave me that I love.
Start with a story that you can always build on. And that's it. I know that sounds simple, but the secret is not telling anybody anything. Not telling them, no, you weren't adopted. You're one of us. That will fester. No, your bio dad was amazing. He went off to sea. We never saw him again. That will fester. That will fester, right? For sure. Daddy made some bad choices. So he got in trouble. Then two years later,
yeah dad made some choices he broke the law had to go to jail or he broke the law what yeah yeah you got all of the best best parts of him but he made some real bad choices and got in big trouble then two or three years later he had to go to jail like well no i didn't press charges what'd he do to you it was pretty tough it was real tough stuff it was a bad deal
What is it? It was a bad deal. I'm not comfortable talking about it with you yet. I'm going to wait till you get a little bit older. You see how we're always building on this story? We've never lied. We never kept secrets, but we're not just going to dump the whole thing because a six-year-old, a 14-year-old can't carry that. Yeah, that makes sense. And here's where some external language in other areas. Right now, just y'all continue to use the line over and over and over. My job is to keep you safe.
Okay. That's just a line always. And then like, I've told my son that since he was zero told my daughter that since she was zero, they wrote rolled her eyes out of the back of the head and repeated after me. But then when my son was like, dad, I want Snapchat.
I said, hey, what's my one job? Oh, God, keep me safe. Okay. Well, when you were a kid, it was not falling off a ladder. Now it is not letting predators come into your house, our house. Yeah. And so when you sit down and he's 15 or he's 17, he's like, why didn't you ever tell me that? I have one job. What was my one job? Oh, are you serious? Keep me safe? Yes, keep you safe. That's too much for a night. And you see what I'm saying? You've laid the groundwork now that these other people
other principles that we have for raising you guys is we're always going to tell you the truth, but we're also not going to just bury you in details. It's not for you. And by the way, you can tell a 17 year old, a 22 year old, I made a call. Are you serious? You didn't put him in jail. I made a choice when I was 22. You're gonna go judge her. Like parents are allowed to do that. What do you tell me till I was 17? Cause I made a choice and that's sometimes enough.
That's often enough, but we're going to tell a story that we can always build on. I wasn't a part of making you, but I got to you as fast as I could because you're my son and you got the very, very best parts. Your daddy, he did some bad stuff, so he got in trouble and can't see us anymore. Yeah, it's a bummer. We're going to start there and they probably will never, ever need the nitty gritty.
There'll probably never be a day when you sit down with this grown man and say, he put something in my drink. Maybe. Not for real. That's way down the road. Right now, he just needs to know minute by minute, you're my son. I love you. To the end of the earth and back. To the moon and back. Thank you for the call, Alex. You're awesome. We'll be right back.
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for free. So even if you missed out on Lent, it's still a great time to start. Again, go to hallow.com. That's H-A-L-L-O-W. hallow.com slash Deloney for three months for free. All right, we're back. Hey, Kelly, what if we just like called it? What if we're just like, you know what? You look beautiful today. Ben, you look great. Kelly, number two. Awesome.
Andrew, you look great. What if we just called it? This is a rough one. Yeah. For those that don't know, we recorded two shows back to back. So we've been in here for about three hours and we're all a little... These were two heavy shows back to back. Yeah. A little fried around the edges. So I'm good with that. I'm fried right in the middle. It's all good. Wherever. I said that as weird as I... God, it's so awkward. Yep. But... Yep. But I'm good with that. Everybody, love you guys.
Back in the booth. Everybody listen to the show. Go outside. See the sunlight. Be kind to each other. Love y'all. Bye.