My Daughter Refuses to Talk to Me (Why?)
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I'm calling you about my daughter. Okay. She's 30. We homeschooled our kids. We raised them in the church. It got further and further away, and then she broke up with us with a text. I can't think of a, like, I'm, again, my kids aren't 30, but I can't think of a worse situation. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hope you are doing amazing.

I'm trying to figure out what day it is. Back and forth all over the United States on tour with my buddy Dave, and it is a blast. And I hope you are doing well wherever you happen to be. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you. Real people going through real challenges. Go to johndeloney.com slash ask, and I'd love to have you out here. All right, let's go to Indianapolis, Indiana, and talk to Luann. What's up, Luann?

Well, it's Tuesday, just so you're aware. What day did I say it was? Did I say it was Monday? You didn't. You didn't know. I don't know where. Yeah. It's good to talk to you. Thank you for telling me that. I did not know what day it was. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. No, it's awesome. I legitimately didn't know it was Tuesday, so thank you for that. What's up?

Well, I'm calling you about my daughter. She's 30. We also have three sons who are, I don't know, between 35 and 45. So we're old enough to retire, but we're not yet.

Because we're just having too much fun working. We homeschooled our kids. We raised them in the church. They went to public university. Probably when she was about 22, 23, 24, in that she started just being too busy to talk. Couldn't talk, couldn't talk, couldn't talk. She does not communicate except by text. Can't call.

Either of our younger two kids on the phone, that's just not right. And it got further and further away. And then last fall, she broke up with us with a text. She sent us a text saying she wanted to go no contact, that she didn't want to discuss why. And she would let us know when she was ready to talk to us again.

So I'm kind of just stuck out here going, well, what's next for me? So, A, let's acknowledge that regardless of what went on, what's going on, what's up, what's down, that's just hard. Yeah. I can't think of a, like, again, my kids are at 30, but I can't think of a worse situation.

Well, you know, and I grew up in a world where, of course, I wanted to cut my parents off. Sometimes they were really stupid. Yeah. But I would never, ever. You just don't. Yeah. Except they did. Yep. So anytime I have a challenge like this, I always go back to what my buddy Jordan Bunch taught me one time, which is anytime I have some sort of relational challenge, I always want to start in one place and one place only, the mirror. Okay. So if you back out,

The data says that you just told me you've got four kids, three of them refuse to speak to you. No, one. But I mean, the other ones just text you? Two will talk on the phone. Okay. One does text. Okay. But we're not in the same town. Yep. So there's that factor too. Well, at some point it's like, okay, so I'm the common denominator here and I raise these kids. Right.

If you're being fully honest with yourself, not trying to defend yourself, but being fully honest with you and your husband, what's the challenges that they're putting on the table? Why are they cutting off contact or why are they limiting contact so much with you? I'm telling you she won't say. I know, but you've got an inkling or your other siblings will pitch something out every once in a while or they'll tell you why they only want to text or why they're busy.

Let me say it this way. You're too smart. I can already tell. You're too smart to just be like, I don't know. You have some inkling. I am trying to figure that out. That's part of what's going on here. The oldest two say, this is nuts. She's being, this is not right. The third one says, boggled. And

I have asked her. In fact, in her late teens, early 20s, she was in therapy. I was too. Not because of each other. It was for separate issues. But because we were in a small town and it was convenient, we used the same therapist. He did a stupid therapist thing one day and started talking to me, dealing with something she was dealing with. That's not a stupid therapist thing. That is highly unethical, should be unlicensed and not be able to sit with people.

And I went blank and I just looked at him because I knew it was happening. And he said, oh my God, I just did it. And I shouldn't have. He acknowledged it and he went on. But he did tell me, again, unethical, there's two things you need to talk to your daughter about. You need to figure these two things out. And she and I talked about one. Four times since then, and she was, like I said, maybe 20 at the most. Four times I had said, can we talk about the other thing?

but that I don't know what it is. And I've told her that. And she says, no, you don't know what it is. And she'll say, no, I'm not ready. And then, um, uh, Christmas a year ago, she said, I will never be ready to talk to you about that. So I suspect it's that, but I can't, I've wrecked my brains. She tells me I need to do some self-reflection. My best friend says I'm the queen of self-reflection. So I'm trying to figure out, I'm really trying to figure out now the, the, the, the,

When I go to the boards or when I go to websites and I go try to find out more about this phenomenon, the consensus is, you know, you're just not acknowledging. And I'm being honest. I want to acknowledge. I don't know. Well, okay. So let's just flip the date around because I misheard you at the beginning. If you have four kids and three of them talk to you somewhat regularly, you all live in separate towns. You all aren't like buddy-buddy, but you all talk, you text, you show up for holidays, and then you have one outlier.

Right. Then what I would suggest is trying to figure out intellectually what's going on is futile. You don't know because you've got somebody that's that it sounds like the limited power she feels like she has is a thing you don't know. And you took care of her raising. You took care of her morals. You took care of her school. You wouldn't. And that can be flipped to.

You didn't let me be around real people. You didn't let me have my own ideas. You didn't let me have my own life. And then I got to out in the real world. And this is one of the challenges, I think, with that we have this whole homeschool movement now. And I don't have a problem with it. It's fine. But it's going to come at a cost. And I know that because I've worked with thousands of college students for 20 years. They are overwhelmed with the new technology.

New ideas, new world. And you can't, you cannot, you can sit in the college of your choice that just regurgitates what you taught them, which I think is a terrible idea. But then they get, they're going to get to the real world where there's no filter anymore. Right. Right. I suspect there's some of that. I did try. We did try. Sure. Sure. And this is an indictment of you, but I'm saying like this, that can be flipped to from, dude, my parents really tried to shield me from all of this.

And I found myself on their kids from some horrible thing. Well, of course, of course. But I'm just saying like, it can be a 25 year old can say, dude, my parents did the best they could with what they got with what they had. And they tried to protect me from madness. And I wish they had given me some more skills, but here we are, or they can completely demonize you and any of the discomfort they have in their life, which all 25 year olds have, you become an easy target.

Yeah. But here's the deal. Trying to figure this out intellectually is a waste of your time. Because it sounds, I'm trusting you that you have actually looked in the mirror and tried to figure it out. And that there's not, I'm going to rattle a couple of things off. Okay, this is more for the audience than for you. But if you can honestly say you do not know of a weird uncle or a strange person,

encounter with her dad, whether that's your husband or a stepdad or something, if you can honestly say, I don't know anything about that. Honestly say, I didn't invite somebody over who had a strange kid who put her in awkward positions. If you can honestly say, we walked through, I taught you about sex. I taught you about some of these harder, bigger issues. We had conversations. If you can honestly walk through and say, I don't know any of that stuff. Those are usually, not usually, those are often the big cutoff points. Like mom and dad, you didn't protect me.

And then after that, who knows what adventure she's on. And I think you have to let yourself get out from behind your intellectual shield and just be really, really sad. I miss my baby girl. Okay. My husband's been encouraging me to do that for a while. And when she cut off last fall, he said, there you go. There's nothing we can do. I will disagree with him on one thing. Okay. I'll disagree with him on one thing.

And that is? Yeah, I'm trying to think of the right way to say it. Well, you could say it the wrong way and walk it back. I could, yeah. So there's a fine line for me between... Well, I'll paint a big, huge picture here. She's asked you not to call her or text her. She's asked for no contact. And I want to honor that. I want to honor that. And also... And I have been. I know, I know. But also...

I'm talking myself into, I'm thinking myself into circles here. So I'm going to do what you said. I'm going to speak this out and then I may walk it back. Often young people, and I'll say 30 and younger, maybe even older, trying to heal a broken relationship with a parent in their life or with an adult figure will put down these big gauntlets

And some of it is very real, especially in abusive situations, especially when there is abuse, when there has been neglect, when there's been some catastrophic stuff. And in your situation, I'm trusting that is completely off the table. That didn't happen. So the next layer is, I want to see if you'll come get me. And so I'm imagining my kids right now, if one of them said, I'm going no contact, please don't call me, don't text me. I'm not coming to, don't invite me to Christmas or whatever. I hear that.

And I might send you a letter once a week or once a month and just says, just so you know, I love you and you're welcome home at any time. And I can see even where that might be run into legal issues. If it would be considered harassment, if somebody said, I've given you clear, do not contact me, not touch me. I mean, don't come after me. But there's going to come a moment when something happens in your kid's life and they open their eyes real wide and they want their mom and their dad. And they're going to think I burned the bridge to the ground to get back home.

And I want there to be a breadcrumb back to my house. And so I guess, I don't know. I've just sat with too many 25-year-olds who say, I can't go home. And I want to tell them, I bet you can. So maybe that's it, Luann. If I knew as a parent I was physically abusive, I knew...

What I thought to be spanking was I went overboard. If I knew that there was physical abuse, if I knew I dragged a kid to a church for 15 years and didn't know they were being molested by, like if there was some major catastrophic trauma and they said, I need to go no contact, I would actually honor that. And I can, I could understand that. Yeah. If there is a young person who is some sort of ideological temper tantrum, who's some sort of has created a story and they're just going on and on and on.

You're 30. You're 25. I can't do anything about it. But I might send you a postcard. That postcard sounds kind of cheesy. I might send you a letter. I want you to open it. By the way, you can throw the letter away every week. You're a grown-up. You can throw it away. You can put it in a shredder. You can send me a legal document or you can send me a text message. I continue to receive your letters. Do not send me another letter again. Okay, I would honor that. My guess is in this situation, she wouldn't do that.

What she might not want to respond to is the text message says, hi, how are you? Or thinking about you because she might have come up with a story that you're manipulative and that any sort of contact like that is manipulative. But there's something about a letter that somebody can open and they can hold and they can see it and they can go back to it and it begins to punch a hole in their story.

Or she might show up to be able to do that. But when she went contact, she moved. Okay. I have no idea where she is. Okay. Or maybe you write a letter and you keep it in your house. And one day if you reconcile, you hand her the whole box. Okay. I have been doing that. Okay. Okay. That's pretty amazing. You hand her the whole box and say, I want you to know, I didn't know how to get ahold of you, but I never stopped looking for you. And by the way, these days it takes about eight minutes to find somebody.

Hmm. Okay. I mean, through social media, through an old friend. I mean, it's not hard. It's not hard. So yeah, I mean, I would go for that. I'd go after it. And I don't know. It's hard. I'm heartbroken for you. And I would probably try to reach out to my older kids one more time. We talk most weeks. Yeah. And they honestly can look at you and say, mom, we have no idea. They have. Has she cut them off too? I don't think so.

I don't ask them. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to get information from them. I know, but Louie, they have to know. Okay. I'll ask. Don't you think? I would think so, but I also don't, I could see her saying, oh, she's trying to get information from you, huh? I just, I'm worried that that would. But here's the thing. Yes. I miss my daughter. I'll try to get information from everybody.

And I would tell my older kids, hey, I'm putting you in an awkward position. If you know anything that I've done that I missed, please, please help me. I'm drowning here.

Mm-hmm. I do feel like, though, that the culture, the atmosphere around this phenomenon is saying you don't have the right to miss your child. Well, that's insanity. They have made an adult's decision, and you're just going to have to accept it. Well, I'm going to make an adult decision and let my kid know I'm never going to—I'll storm the gates of hell to come get you. Mm-hmm. Because I know too many people in their 40s and 50s that don't have a relationship with their 70- or 80-year-old parents, and it's killing them.

It's killing them. That's what I, and I, we did talk about that at one point in time. I said, you know, I just feel like someday I'm going to be gone and you're going to think, oh my gosh. That's the wrong way to say it. That's you trying to exert power over her. Don't do that. Okay. I want you to flip it around because that's you standing tall. I want you to actually take a seat on a park bench and put your face in your hands and sob because my daughter doesn't want to come home.

Not making it like one day you're going to miss me. No, I genuinely didn't see it that way. I know, I know, I know. But, but like this, yes, you're correct. One day she's going to wish she had talked to her mom. I think you're right, but that's not the way to come at her. Okay. It's to say, I miss my baby girl. And clearly I've done something. I've said something. I was away and I don't know what it is. I've tried. I've asked everybody I know. I've called everyone I know. And I'll respect you. Just know that you can always come home.

And that's what I would, there's talking to your other kids, her siblings about, well, do you know what's wrong with her? Why is she so mad at me? That's one way to go about it. The other way to go about it is, hey, I'm putting you on an awkward position. I can't sleep. I can't breathe. My stomach hurts all the time.

It's like the 99 and one. I just want to bring my baby home. I just wanted to tell her I love her. And I've done something and I don't know what it is. One is very much a position of power and one is one of great humility. If any of y'all know anything, please tell me. I'm drowning over here. And do you get the difference in posture? I do, I do. Do you ever wonder if you start really crying on this thing if you'll ever be able to stop? Oh, yeah. I think you have to go there.

I have been. Okay. You sound tough to me. Well, there's a lot going on right now that's not this. Okay. I'll just say that. That's fair. But I have been there a half dozen times at least since this started. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to get some hate on this call, and that's fine. I...

The culture doesn't get a vote into my family's life, and the culture can be nonsensical and insane sometimes. And yes, adults have a full right to not contact their parents, to not talk to them, especially in abusive situations. No question about it, and I'll support you to the end of the year. And I wouldn't argue with that at all. Of course. That's absolutely appropriate. And adults have permission, have the right. They're adults. They can just say, I don't want everyone to talk to you again. Don't call me. Don't talk to me. Whatever. We're done. Cool.

You have a right to do that. And until you file a legal briefing on me, I'm going to send you a letter once a month letting you know I'm still thinking about you. There's still a hole in my heart because I miss my kid and you can come home anytime. You can come home anytime and I'll meet you out in the parking lot. I'll come running to get you. I think we've got this weird impasse that's happened and culturally that if you're uncomfortable or you're not happy or somebody's not 100% in alignment with you, that means you got to end everything. My buddy Ian Simpkins said the other day, unity is

It doesn't require uniformity, and I think that's right. Yeah, as for me and my house, my kids are going to know I'll come to the ends of the earth for you and beyond. And if that's culturally not cool, then so be it. Then so be it. And if I have things I have to apologize for, which God knows I do, I'll be the first to take a knee and apologize. But that doesn't give parents the right to not be pretty self-reliant.

not look in the mirror and really be honest about what you might have brought to this situation. It's real easy for parents just to bomb their adult kids. And I think it's fair to do a lot of self-reflection when somebody that you love says, I don't want to be in a relationship with you. We come back, we hear from a woman who wants to know if maybe having separate beds will improve her sex life. We'll be right back.

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Hi. What's up? Oh, I, sorry, I'm a little nervous, but... I'm so nervous too, we're good. I was wondering if having separate beds would help me and my husband's sex life. I don't know, what do you think? Well, I just kind of was contemplating it a little bit. Why separate beds? A little bit of background, I think I have some

Sorry. You're good. I don't know how to describe this best, but when our first night in our first apartment after being married, I woke up to him screaming. Take a deep breath. Take a deep breath. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Sit with me for a second. No, don't. You better not apologize. I'm hanging up on you. No apologizing.

I'm sitting here right here, okay? I think there's a lot of elements into this, but I have a lot of anxiety. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Sit with me for a second. Okay. You don't need to scramble on this one. How many little ones do you have back there with you? I'm sorry. No, you're good. I love that. It's one of my favorite noises in the world. Do what? I have three. One of them's asleep. The other two are chittering. I love it. I love it. Okay. Do me a favor.

Take your left hand and I want you to open it as wide as you can and stretch it all the way out, okay? Okay. And then I want you to slowly close your pinky and then your ring finger and then your middle finger and then your index finger and then your thumb. And squeeze that as tight as you can. Okay. And then let go. Now, I can feel your shoulders up around your neck. Bring them down. All right. So the first night you spent with your husband, you woke up and he was screaming.

He has a lot of neglect and trauma for his family. Yeah. Did that scare you? I won't mainly hurt for him. No, no, no, no. I know. But did that scare you? Well, in that moment, yeah. How long have you all been together? Seven, almost seven years, six, almost seven. Okay. How many more times does that happen?

That was the only time that's happened, but there's been other times he's woken up and full anxiety, shaking. But that's the only time he's screamed. And he's been on medication. I had to convince him the first year of marriage to get on medication. He's improved a lot, but he says a lot that he can't sleep unless I'm next to him.

Unless you are next to him or not next to him? Unless I'm next to him. Okay. I think he says my presence just brings him a lot of comfort. Okay. It helps him relax, and I like that I can do that for him, but sometimes it's not. In a moment, you can help regulate his nervous system, but that can't be y'all's long-term solution.

Yeah, and he's been doing therapy on and off. Our finances have been hard, so there's been times we just can't afford it. What's he do for a living? It's kind of been all over the place, but he's finally found something that he really loves. It's like animatronics in the sense of manufacturing. Okay.

I'm hearing that. Go ahead. Sorry. I just think I feel a lot of weight to stabilize him. You do. Mentally, and he is progressing, but it's really slow. Yeah. You sound like you're somebody who is a really amazing person, and you're very kind, and you're very, very, very, very, very loyal, and that you're on your last bit of energy before you slip underwater for good.

Fair? Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to, normally I would talk to you for a long time about this, but because of our condensed time together, I'm going to be real, real direct, okay? Okay. Don't take that for me not being loving, but I want it to be real direct, okay? Okay. If you crumble under the weight of all of this, you'll be of no good to yourself or to those three little kids in the background or to him. Okay.

Okay. Okay? It's okay for you to say, I've reached the end of what I can carry. Because you're carrying the entire house plus a grown man. Emotionally, physically, sexually, spiritually. It's too much. Okay? We've had conversations about it. And I feel like he tries a little bit harder every time we talk about it. I know, but Christina, it's not about trying harder. He's got to go get well.

And I know you say you can't afford it right now. There's got to be some way to address that head on and figure that one out. And that's where you take all the kids and you all move into a one bedroom apartment for six months. That's where you have to go get a job and you've got to let some neighbor come in or your family come in. And like, there's got to be some sort of drastic change. Cause you're all drowning financially. He feels that he feels that shame, but also he's got some demons, right? What did he experience growing up?

His dad would rage fit, and he's bipolar. And then his mom's a borderline personality disorder, and she would manipulate him to blow, and he'd blow. And he'd never physically hurt them, but there'd be holes in the walls, and there was always a worry if they had food. Right. He became the parent to his siblings. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sorry. No, don't be sorry. You sound tired. Like, I've been trying to, I'm starting a business and... Is now a good time to start a business, Christine?

Well, it's kind of out of necessity. We need something. And it seems like it's going to be very profitable. What's the business? I think it's medical billing. It's something I can do at home. And that's what I can do late at night when the kids are asleep. Okay. I had a friend of mine who did that well into the night for years. Okay. When does your husband work?

He gets up at five and comes home at 6.30. Okay. He works long and he can't push anymore over time, you know, to be able to make ends meet because it's too much emotional for him. Do you have any support in your area? My mom helps out with the kids a lot. My sister's moving back in the state and she can help me. Okay.

I wonder if you and your husband have a very honest sit down conversation about, um, you, you gotta get some help. I can hear in the background. You just gotta get some help. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. You gotta get some support. And that might mean that your mother comes in, um, three days a week or four days a week and y'all pay her way under market rate to watch the kids. Um, and that's not ideal. It's not what you want, but it may be what you have to do. Um,

He sounds like he is working his butt off from 5 a.m. to 6.30. He is just gunning and gunning and gunning. And in his mind, he's trying to quote unquote work harder. I'm just telling you right now, given his childhood, it's just a recipe. He's going to crash. And it's not saying working hard isn't important. Good grief. I've worked those hours for years, but it's about towards an end, not running. It's running to something, not from something. And man, I know the season of three kids that are young and it's chaos and it's exciting and it's exhausting and all that stuff. But

You have to have a support of some sort where you can have a phone call, where you can exhale. Hang on the line, Christine. I'm going to send you a couple of things. Number one, I'm going to send you my book, Building a Non-Anxious Life. I want you all to read that, you and your husband, and use that as a roadmap. The six daily choices, I want you all to use that as a map. And there's questions at the end of every chapter. You all sit down and answer those questions together. The second thing I'm going to send you is I'm going to send you the Financial Peace University, the digital stuff, so that you and your husband can go through those lessons together.

And you can begin to get your money under control. The third thing I'm going to send you, the EveryDollar app, the premium version, I'll give that to you for a year. And you can use that together. You can align your money and you can get that attached to your bank account. And you can start having honest conversations about if nothing changes, nothing changes. And we got to get some help, both emotional help and you got to get some help with those kids, whether it's from your mom, whether it's from a neighbor, whether it's from a teenager, whether it's from your sister, whatever it is, and get very serious about it and regimented about it.

And you're going to get some more income. And here's the big one. I'll give you a couple of months for free, three months free with better help for your husband, but he's going to need some in-person trauma therapy. And this isn't just going to a counselor hit and miss. He's got to sit down with a trauma therapist in your area. It's going to be expensive, but it's going to be worth every penny of it to say, it's time for me to get well because I don't want to pass this on to the next generation. And I deserve to be free. Christine, you call anytime. I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you.

But I think an honest conversation about I've carried what I can carry for as long as I can carry and I got to set some of the stuff down is not going to be an indictment of him. It's just going to be a reorienting. You're both running as hard as you can. And there just has to be an honest reckoning with this. We got to just set stuff down and we got to reconfigure this because we can't keep carrying it the way we're going. Have your husband give me a call anytime, Christine. Thank you so much for the call.

When we come back, we're going to talk to a man who's thinking about a career change that might help his family situation. I've been on board with the benefits of red light therapy for a long time, and that's why I'm super jazzed to tell you about Bon Charge. Our lives are lived almost entirely inside, under the crazy glow of fluorescent lights and in front of little screens and medium-sized screens and big screens. All this stuff affects our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and the studies themselves.

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Go to bondcharge.com slash D'Loni and use coupon code D'Loni to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E, bondcharge.com slash D'Loni and use coupon code D'Loni to save 15%. Chicago, Illinois. Let's talk to Mark. What's up, Mark? Hey, Dr. John. How's it going? What's up, brother?

Oh, just relaxing at home and, uh, enjoying a day off of work. Very cool, man. I wonder what that's like. That sounds awesome. What's up man for now? So yeah, I've, uh, been wrestling with a couple of things here over the last couple of weeks, just trying to find that right balance of work and family time and, uh,

We have a seven-month-old daughter. Oh, man. Welcome to it, dude. I love her to death, man. It's one of the best things I've ever been doing in my life, really. And honestly, I'm trying to figure out if it's really the time for me to

I stepped into a role where I'm able to be home a lot more and help my wife raise our daughter. And it's just, you know, honestly, this job that I'm doing right now, it just takes me a lot of hours away from home. And it's kind of beating me up mentally, physically every now and then. So do you have a job in mind? Somewhat. So I do have a little bit of...

in the financial background. Before this job, I worked at a bank for a few years. I had regular hours, obviously, and I was treated real well. Basically, the reason I moved to this role was it was something I was basically trained to do in finance.

and actually went to school for it. - I know, but let me ask you a question. Do you have a thing that you could go to? Do you have a job that you could walk into? Do you have a job offer on the table? Or do you have a direction? - I do not. - Okay. What's the job you're doing now? - So I'm a golf instructor. - Okay. And do you like playing golf? - I enjoy it. I don't play very much right now just with how crazy work is. - Okay. I guess this is my big answer.

I always want people to take six months to a year after a major life change because nobody's sleeping when you have a seven-month-old in the house. Your marriage takes a dip. Like the research says that the overall marriage satisfaction takes a dip because you have to readjust. You're married to new people now. You have to create a new thing together. And there's guilt. There is a guilt on both sides. There is frustration on both sides. There is challenges on both sides.

And there's challenges moving forward together. Here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to quit your job, A, with no other job. B, I don't want you to quit your job, go to a job that you didn't like before, but that would let you be home more because here's what will end up happening. You'll blame this little lump of a one-year-old for your misery. And that won't be fair to her. That won't be fair to your wife. It won't be fair to anybody.

If you love being a golf instructor and you love a job where you're outside meeting new people and you're shaking hands and over the next year or two, you can start learning about businesses they're doing and ask, how do you get into that business? And then suddenly you may be down a track you had no idea about. Then that would be awesome if you have an aim somewhere. But I guess I would tell you if you want to get a new job, if you hate being a golf instructor, just have the courage to say, I don't like being a golf instructor. Don't blame it on the seven month old.

If you are finding, I would rather not be at work. I'd rather be at home. I like being here with this little kid. I like being in the life of this kid. Awesome. But I want you to have a conversation, an imaginary conversation with 35-year-old you. Right. And say, are we glad that we didn't, that we put some more time in?

And we're struggling here and we're struggling here and we're struggling here. Or would it have been better if I'd just hit the gas when the kid was seven months old, one year old, two years old, three years old, and now we're in a situation where we can exhale a little bit. Only you can answer that question. Is your marriage struggling right now? Honestly, how I looked at it over the last week was I came home after a rough day and I had...

We're good marriage-wise, but then sometimes we get into the habit of taking out frustrations and kind of snapping at each other just because of a long day at work. And we talk through it and we're good otherwise with that. And we've...

One of the good things about our marriage is that we don't yell at each other. If we feel like there's something going on, we actually sit down, talk it out very calmly, give each other a lot of room to air out their feelings.

frustrations or anything and then we can do it very calmly and very respectfully at least. I mean, respect is always important, but it doesn't even have to be calm. Sometimes calm can be a move. So back all the way out, why do you want to change jobs? Because so part of me is a little fearful of not being home. What are you afraid of?

So my wife, she was also grew up in a house where her dad was not present as much because he was working very often. He was, he traveled for work and everything. And she went through that, uh, that time in her life and seeing her mom, uh, kind of having to raise her and her brother on her own a little bit. I don't want to have, and also with, uh,

My wife's work, she also has her crazy busy times, late nights and everything. And it would be a lot better balance for us because our busy times actually kind of overlap a little bit and it gets a little... Is she telling you to move? I can't get to the bottom of this, dude. You're talking in big, looping, slow circles. It's like really big seasons a little bit.

and then we have a fight but it's it's it's okay and then we have a disagreement but it's we just we're calm and we're i'm trying to find some sort of of maybe you're just a total chill guy and the world needs more of people like you i'm trying to find i'm trying to poke and prod and see if i can find something that lights you up i can't feel i can't i can't get a grasp on what what you love or what you want to do it sounds like your whole life you're trying to play defense

And you're playing predictive defense. Well, this happened when she was a kid, so I'm going to go ahead and do this now. And then this happened, so it might happen here. And then this happened, it might happen here. What do you want to do? I want to have a little bit more peace in life, honestly. Is the peace coming because your wife doesn't like the life she has? Is the peace coming because your wife feels like she is recreating her childhood home and she has some scars from that?

Is the peace coming that you quit being a banker and then you started working as a golf pro and you kind of hate it? What's the peace coming from? Because a seven-month-old is going to stare at you. And if you want a seven-month-old to give you peace, that's not fair to the seven-month-old. They don't have the ability to do that. And if you think working less and being around home more is going to help, it will not.

if working less allows you to be present in home and do things that add to the flow of your house, that will help. But if you're trying to do things because your wife doesn't like the life she is co-creating, that's a recipe for a car crash. Or if you're trying to make her happy or she's frustrated and you're trying to figure out a thing that you can do. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Am I off? Yeah.

No, you're actually, I've wrestled with this before and the, and it's tough because I've seen it both ways of where having the life at home, having that time with family, being able to take care of things around the house, being, and just able to having a life outside of work, then having,

Also trying to find that. And I've listening to your show and everything I've seen, some of the other stuff that you've discussed of trying to find that passion. And that's kind of what drove me to golf in the first place when I was younger was the passion for it. And then on, and some of the things that you've said in the past, it's kind of interesting as how that has kind of crept in my mind of where it

You don't have to be passionate about something to do it for a long amount of time. I'm trying to figure out what would be. Because honestly, right now, what I love doing more than anything, what I feel like my first and highest purpose right now is to be a father and be a husband that is present and

And able to help at home. And working six hours a week sometimes does not. It just gets in the way of that. I just got to disagree with you, brother. Because my number one calling on planet Earth is to be a good husband, followed immediately by being a good father. And I work a lot. And the antidote to being a good father and being a present husband is not quitting your job.

It is being united with your partner and saying, what must be true for us to have the life that we want to co-create together? And granted, some spouses will say, I need you here. At five o'clock, I need you here. And so we're going to sit down and have a conversation about what that means job-wise, what that means financially, what that, like, we're going to have all that painted as a conversation. Okay. In my house,

There were seasons, and I've talked about this publicly, where I was crazy busy writing books, being on the road, doing media, jumping on a plane and flying across the country to do a speaking engagement, going on a tour. I was all over the place. The problem was it was all for me. Now I am busier than I've ever been ever, and I feel more present and more connected, and my marriage is stronger than it has ever been.

And that's not a flex. That's just comes from so many scars and so many broken bones, relational broken bones, and so many like missteps and messing up to where the season I'm in right this moment, when you and I are having this call, my wife and I planned in July. And what does that mean? That means I flew in last night from an event in the middle of the night. And I got up this morning at six and I took my son to breakfast. So I'm tired. And that's exactly how we drew it up.

And tonight I'll be at my kitchen table for dinner. And then tomorrow I fly out again to go across the country. But just quitting my job doesn't help with presence. It does mean when I walk in the front door, my phone is off, off, off. It does mean when I walk in the front door, the TV is off, off, off. And it does mean for seasons I'm very tired.

Hang on the line. I'm going to send you my buddy Ken Coleman's book. It's called Work Your Wire to Do, and it's got an assessment inside of it that you can take, and it will lean you towards, give you some options and maybe some things you might be interested in checking out. But I think it's also worth a conversation with your wife saying this exact thing. Hey, we have a seven-month-old, me and you, we have a family. We made a human. This is awesome. And our marriage is completely different. And so let's clear the deck and let's rebuild our marriage. How do you want this house to feel when you walk in?

What brings you laughter? What brings you joy? Tell me about your work schedule. Do you still love your job? What am I going to want to do? What are we seeing in each other? And let's have that conversation because we need to rebuild something together so that we can both move forward. And sometimes that will take 60 hours a week. And sometimes that will take one of you just quitting and staying at home full time. And sometimes that will take you both working full time and you're going to have to get some support and help. It's going to be all over the place depending on where you live and what you do and your economic situation, all those crazy factors.

But I want to challenge you and all the men listening to this. Wanting to be a, just, I want to be a better husband and a better dad. That means I got to quit my job. It's just absolutely not true. It's just not true. If you're using work as a drug, maybe. If you're using work as a way to escape your family, maybe. But if you're just tired and bored, it's not a reason to quit. Thanks for the call, man. When we come back, something cool happens and Kelly's going to let us know what it is.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, listen, therapy is not just for people who are dealing with major traumas. It can be for that big stuff, but it can also be a valuable tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and emotional well-being. I've personally used therapy for working through major trauma, as well as helping me navigate daily relationship and personal challenges.

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All right, we're back. Kelly, what's something cool happened? You put some pictures in front of me here. I did. All right, this is from Beth. And the pictures that John is looking at, we're also going to put on the screen. So Beth writes, I'm an elementary school teacher, and I heard you talking about how you don't make New Year's resolutions, but instead you ask yourself, how do I want to show up for myself in 2025? Who do I want to be? I took that idea and brought it to my first grade classroom.

We didn't make resolutions when we came back from winter break. Instead, we brainstormed characteristics that we wanted to have in the new year. I had to break it down to first grade language, but I really liked how it came out. So these are hanging up in my classroom. And we refer to these things when things get hard or when behaviors start to slip. Here are some pictures. This is not first grade language. Every adult needs to do this.

This is amazing. So what, for those that aren't seeing it, what it is, each student had a cutout of a person and they colored it, made it, you know, into a little boy or little girl, whatever they wanted to wear. And then they wrote words. Like some descriptive adjectives. Yeah, descriptive adjectives that they wanted to be. Do you want to explain what some of those are? Yeah, so this one kid wrote generous, peaceful, empathetic, kind, brave, polite,

One person wrote grateful, kind, honest, brave, calm, loving, empathetic. So I'm assuming that if a kid gets spun up or the kid's got challenges with something and the teacher can bring him back and say, okay,

Here's who we are going to be. How do we get here? And you're teaching the kid like where are you not feeling kind or where are you not feeling calm? And I think every school on planet Earth should have a class teaching you to identify your emotions and where they came from. That way you don't spew all over the place.

If nothing else, just watch Inside Out with them. I mean, start there. But she said that she keeps these hanging in the classroom so the kids are seeing them every day. That's fantastic. And it also reminds you of, Sheila and I had a check-in with our monthly, I mean, with our annual thing yesterday.

I'm so far off. I'm so far off. God help me. But maybe I should make a little thing and dangle it in front of me all the time. Yeah, do you want us to make a little cutout of a John for you? Kind of. I mean, I have one. It's a voodoo doll, but it's close. Exactly. Whatever. You framed it and put it by your bed. I saw that. Tomato, tomato. I saw that. Jeez Louise. That's because I took away your John doll that you had because it was creepy. You carried it around and kind of pet it. It was super weird. No, I had pins in it. That wasn't petting. It was sticking in the pants. No, you had pins in it.

What? Jeez. This is amazing. So what's this woman's name? This is Beth. Beth, you're a hero. You're an absolute stone hero teaching these kids this. And every adult, you need to do this too. Identify who do you want to be? What do you want people to say about you when you're not in the room? That guy's a complete and total b-hole. No. No.

That person is delightful. That person makes me feel happy all the time. That person makes me laugh always, always. That person's a little bit chaotic, but a little bit awesome. Like whatever it is, that person's empathetic. I love saying being around that person. They're so generous. And then I think the big kicker is you got to remind yourself over and over and over again. Good call. Love you guys. Bye.