My Husband’s Affair Is Over. . . But He Still Talks to Her
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So she's a Little League coach? Yes. And he's a coach? And he's the coach. On the same team? Yes. And they had an affair and you caught him? Yes. And he's still coaching? Yes. Your husband is absolute embarrassment to husbands everywhere. If this was a Hallmark movie, the only way to make this right is for you to call the other husband and be like, hey, what's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. And for more than 20 years, I've been sitting with hurting people who, and that includes all of us,

Trying to do life, like just do the next right thing and the wheels fall off, whether it's in our marriages, our mental and emotional health, whether that is in our workplace, wherever you find challenge, um,

I'll show up and sit with you. And man, it's one of my life's greatest honors to sit with hurting people trying to figure out, hey, what's the next right move? Hey, I think I see a light over that hill. What if we headed that way? If you would like me to sit with you and just figure out what's the next right decision, give me a buzz, 1-844-693-3291. Or you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. All right, let's go back to Texas and talk to Michelle in Corpus Christi. What's up, Michelle?

Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm doing good. Awesome. Today's a good day. Good, good, good. What's up? How can I help? So my question is, how do I cope with when my husband wants to remain on the same team as the woman that he was involved with in an affair? What? Yeah, I know. What team?

It's a, it's a little league baseball. God help us. We're doomed as a culture. We're doomed. I know. Unfortunately, they're both the coaches for this team. And yeah, it's, it was he with another man? No, no, no. He, it was a woman. Okay. So she's a literally coach. Yes. And he's a coach and he's the coach on the same team. Yes. And they had an affair and you caught him.

Yes. And he's still coaching? Yes. Michelle. I know. You're in Corpus Christi. They would never find his body if you took it far enough out in the bay. I've considered it. I know you have. Don't do that. No, I wouldn't. Um, so as ridiculous as it sounds, um,

This is ridiculous at a level that it's even ridiculous for my show. And you can just look at the thumbnails on YouTube and this show gets ridiculous. Yes. This is insanity. It is insanity. And that's where I'm struggling with because, well, to add more sprinkles on top of this dessert, the husband is also aware of the affair and her husband. So he's agreed to stay on this team for this last season as well.

So it's, it's so basically on top of that, we actually had a friendship outside of this team. Like we had three or four years, we've already been friends with this couple and a group of couples. And so we hung out with them outside the baseball field, you know, on, you know, personal lives and everything. And it was constant. So not only did we have that friendship,

We lost a friendship, but we also have this issue. Hold on, hold on. It's not an issue. You lost your marriage. Your husband is absolute embarrassment to husbands everywhere. An absolute embarrassment. Yeah. He blew up his marriage and he is going to rub it in publicly. That's astonishing to me. The fact that he has all of his teeth from the other husband.

If this was a Hallmark movie, the only way to make this right is for you to call the other husband and be like, hey, what's up? I can't even wrap my head around this. Yeah, I know, John. It's been tough. I can say that my husband did test up to everything. No, he got caught. Yeah, he got caught. Yeah, he gets no gold stars here. None. Zero gold stars. He's an embarrassment to men.

Wow. Yeah. An absolute embarrassment to married men, to unmarried men. They're all men. The cowardice to take his, the cowardice and shame it takes not to cheat on your wife. It happens. I've got, I will sit with you. Okay. But to rub your nose in it, you sit up in the stands while me and her share a dugout and we're going to bring our kids around so that they get to see this too. Yeah. And not having the courage just to leave you.

As crazy as that sounds coming from me. It's just, it's embarrassing. I'm sorry you have to deal with it. Thank you. Absolutely embarrassing. So look, can I say this? You're not crazy. Because I guarantee you, okay, we have a psychology for when somebody stabs us in the back, right? Like somebody that is like the snake in the grass at work that takes your job. Like it hurts and we get mad and angry and all that. But we intellectually understand that.

Most of us don't have a psychology for when somebody stabs us in the front in the face someone that we love and care about that we trust and then when that happens in the rarer moments when they point at you and they say oh Yeah, any response you owe your screaming in pain. You should be quiet be quiet Then you start to think you're crazy. Mm-hmm. You're not crazy. This is insane the madness

Yeah. Or let me say it this way. You know what? It's not madness. It's not insanity at all. It's just clear data that he does not want this marriage. He does not, period, want, period, to be married to you, period. And that was a lot of periods. And I was trying to be emphatic. Yeah. Because nobody who hurts somebody like he hurt you decides, I'm going to go ahead and rub her face in the concrete.

And who cares if you have a nine-year-old who's like, I don't want to switch teams. It doesn't matter. You're nine. There's a grenade in the middle of your home. I don't care less what you want. You're nine. We're playing rec ball. We're not playing baseball this year. How about that? We're going to go fishing because I'm going to rebuild my marriage from the inside out because I just messed it up.

Yeah. I'm rarely speechless and you got me on this one, Michelle. Yeah, no, it's even though I'm speaking a lot. Yeah, no, I, I mean, there's, I don't know what to say because I mean, he's trying, we're trying out for another team. So quit baseball. Stop. I did. I did suggest that. No suggest you have a voice in this Michelle.

You've got a voice. You're getting dragged behind a car through your community and you're like, hey, what if we went slower? Like, stop. Yeah, that's true. I guess you put it like that. I want you to take the driver's seat back in your own life. We're trying out for other teams. Quit baseball. It's God almighty. What is wrong with people?

Okay, I'm talking way too much even though I'm speechless, which I know sounds weird, but God help me. That's kind of what I've shared with him too. I've told him, okay, look at it. Stop sharing. Stop sharing. You got to just tell him. Listen, okay, how can I help? I'm just kind of getting out of my seat here. I mean, that's basically it. We want to work on our marriage. He absolutely does not. He absolutely 1,000% does not care about your marriage, period. End of story. End of story.

behavior is a language he wants to spend hours and hours and hours in a confined space on a joint mission and purpose with the woman he cheated on you with period end of story that's it okay i guess that's me having to take yeah you got to metabolize that kind of that kind of pain i've had people who cheat at work and who quit their jobs to save their marriage and that's noble

That people get rid of their computers because they're struggling with pornography and their spouse says enough is enough. Like there's people who move, they go to the ends of the earth to save their marriage. Your husband is not be interested in being married to you as only so far as, I mean, you kind of will take anything, right? Yeah, I guess, I guess I've been the one that's kind of been holding on for our kids. For everything. Do you have a daughter?

Yes, I do. Imagine she's 22 and she's telling you this story. What would you tell her to do? Run. I feel like I matter on your behalf than you are. I guess. I don't know why it's just so hard for me to stand up for myself, I guess, in this sense. Michelle, I'm not going to beat you up. Let's don't do that. Yeah. It just is. I hate it for you.

I hate you being treated like this. Nobody, nobody, nobody deserves to be hurt like this. Nobody. I'm so sorry. No. Yeah. Me too. And like, make no mistake. Like, uh, I guess the picture in my head is there was a house fire and the house burned to the ground and you were checking out the ashes of the house and a beam that had kind of burned through, started to fall and you were holding it up and your arms are so tired and

You're covered in soot and ash and you're exhausted, but you don't want to drop the beam because you don't want to acknowledge that the house fell down. Yeah, that's exactly how it feels like. So regardless of all the nonsense advice you're going to get, nobody can give you your next decision, your next choice. Mm-hmm.

If somebody cheats in a relationship and the other person chooses to stay and they choose to rebuild their marriage and rebuild trust, I applaud that. I think that's amazing. I'll be in their corner all day long. And if somebody cheats in a relationship and they say, I can't, I can't come back, I'll sit with you too. I'll be in your corner all day long too. The one thing I can't stomach is the person who cheats, blows up everything, and then looks over and says, yeah, I'm going to keep doing this. I mean, help me out. What's his justification?

I mean, he did say it was because, you know, he felt like our marriage was already kind of crumbling in a sense. Yeah.

I had started therapy and he refused to do any therapy. And, um, so then when they started talking, it never was like that, but it started becoming more emotional affair. And then because he would vent to her and they would talk about baseball and, you know, talk, then they started, she started having problems in her marriage. And so then they started talking about each other's marriages and that's how that started. Okay. So let me, let me pause there. That's not an uncommon scenario.

And this is going to sound strange to say, like that doesn't freak me out. Like that part isn't, I'm trying to think of the right words. It's not rare. But what on earth post that moment, the, oh my gosh, I just changed everything. I just slept with one of my close friends' wives. I just slept with one of my wife's close friends. Someone I travel with that we coach games. Like I just, whoa.

What in the world could possibly be the justification for being like, all right, so here's the deal. We're going to continue coaching together. Well, for him, it's because he doesn't want people to find out what happened. So he doesn't want to leave the team abruptly. And then people start questioning why he left.

And I said, who cares? Since when do you care what people say or think about you? Now, all of a sudden, you care. And that's why we're trying to... We were trying to quietly exit because nobody knows. I mean, between the four of us, minus like a cousin of mine, nobody else knows in our family, in our friend circle. So that's why he was trying to do a clean break. But now that the season's about to start, he's like, well...

I don't know if I want to leave just yet. We agreed we're just going to do this last season and then we're done. But I'm finding it hard to do that, even though they've cut all communication, like her phone number's blocked, like they don't interact at all. I guarantee you they figured out a way around that. Guaranteed. My truck is not nice, but I would bet the whole thing they figured it out. I'm literally heartbroken for you, with you.

Yeah, me too. If he cares more about his precious little imaginary reputation among the little league community than he does about his marriage, that's about all you need to know. Yeah, that's true. Or let me say it like this. You're worth more than that. I'm just, I'm just embarrassed, man. I would get on the phone with somebody who's a trusted professional ASAP, um,

And I think for you, going back to the house on fire analogy, you need to have somebody that can help you clear the smoke and the ash so you can figure out what you want to do next. And maybe sit with a counselor in your local area that can walk through like, okay, this is happening and this is happening and this is happening. So they can be as hopefully as direct as I'm being. I just, I can't, I can't wrap my head around it.

This is just shameful on so many different levels. It's embarrassing. I just keep saying embarrassing. I'm just embarrassed. Gosh, some of those calls, Michelle, there's not a happy ending to this one. I'm just heartbroken. Maybe he comes home today and he's like, dude, I'm out of my mind. I've been crazy. I quit the team. We're not playing baseball. I'm out. I'm not going to answer the five texts I get from parents because I don't care. And I'm saving my marriage. Ends of the earth. Here we go. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

but it could grieve. I'm sorry, my sister. I'm sorry. Thank you for the call. Call anytime. If you get up to some big decision points, holler at me. I'd be happy to sit with you. We'll be right back.

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Hey, Dr. John. Glad to be on. A little nervous. Oh, you're good, brother. Thanks for calling in, man. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, glad to be on. Nervous to be on. This is a little different for me. There you go. Well, I appreciate you having the courage to reach out, man.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's just you and me and a couple of million people. It's all good. Oh yeah. Nobody listens, right? Trust me. No, nobody does. So, yeah. So, uh, how do we, how do we jump into this? And, and, and, uh, Cannonball, Cannonball is the best way. Cannonball. Yeah. So, um, so a whole, whole whopping seven months ago, um, married this, uh,

amazing, beautiful woman. Um, we started dating approximately three years ago and moved really fast. I mean, she was the, the unicorn that, that I, that every guy dreams of dreams of running into. Um, she started off kind of as a, as a client of mine through a, through a hobby job that I was doing. Um, and then we had, we had both recently, you know, ended previous relationships and kind of

found confidence in each other and quickly snowballed into a relationship and, you know, same hobbies, same interests, same, you know, everything. And, uh, we got married in May. I had brought a lot of baggage into the relationship, um, financially, um, and entered, entered this marriage, not really standing on my two feet, just trying to try and play catch up with life and bad decisions in the past. Um,

And everything was great up until planning the marriage. Our relationship had kind of gotten a little rocky there for a little bit. And I kind of alluded it to, you know, just the stress of planning a wedding and planning a marriage. And, you know, post-wedding, you know, we had that little honeymoon phase and, you

Things just never really ironed themselves out. And so we started going to couples counseling at the beginning of June. And first session was great. You know, I made an advent. You know, I'm all in. Just personal values, upbringing, you know, all in to work on your marriage.

and lean into it. And so I was all in our therapist gave us homework. We came back the following week and she dropped a bombshell, um, that she had gone back through a money tracking app that we had started doing together, um, to kind of manage finances, kind of build a budget out. Um,

And she had found where I had basically paid for porn. It was something that I didn't deny it when she brought it up. I admitted to it. It was something that I had

I had struggled previously with, um, years and years and years ago. Um, wouldn't necessarily say addicted to it, but, but struggled with it. Um, I'd stopped, um, and then kind of relapsed back into it, um, in the last year, year and a half. Um, and about August, um,

I kind of had that realization of, you know, I'm a married guy. I've got a wife. What am I doing? And stopped cold turkey.

But she went through that money app and did some digging and investigating on her own and found it. I tried to cover it up. It was an app where you could change the name of the charges and things like that. I had seen it on there. I tried to cover it up out of shame and guilt. Never admitted it to her out of shame and guilt.

I had told her that I had previously had a problem with porn and admitted that to her later in our relationship out of a fear of being vulnerable to her and being judged for it. And I guess when she did her whole investigating and found it, it blew up to, I can't be trusted.

She called me a cheater a couple of times. Um,

which hurt the most because I would never... While I understand that porn, you know, some people can look at it as cheating, I would never act on that. I would never physically step out of my marriage. Yeah, but she doesn't know that. Yeah, she doesn't know that. But the trust thing is the hardest part, that she feels like she can't trust me. And she basically said that she wanted...

that she needed some time to think and our therapist suggested the one week no contact. That was the hardest, longest week of my life, I thought at the time. And we reconvened and she walked into the therapy session late. I noticed she didn't have her wedding band on. When I saw her walk in the door, my heart immediately sank because that was the first thing that I noticed that she wasn't wearing her wedding band. And she sat down and said she wanted a divorce.

And my life has been basically crumbled since then. So we're a month post that last therapy session. Our therapist suggested we each individually see therapist. Again, I dove all in. I've been meeting with my therapist weekly here more recently biweekly. And I'm all, I'm all in, you know, trying to,

do better for myself, um, fix my problems, my vulnerability, my honesty problems, um, vagueness problems, um, and trying to figure out how I can, you know, earn my wife. I still have heard of my wife, although she's, she's filed for divorce. Um, so she has filed paperwork.

Yeah, she's filed paperwork. She's gotten her lawyer. I got my lawyer just to protect myself. And we're kind of letting the lawyers do their thing. But I'm still... Okay, but so you have to exhale that this is over. Yeah. And you haven't yet, have you? No, I'm still trying to hold on. I'm still trying to fight because I do love her.

With everything that I've got and willing to do anything to show her that I'm all in. I know, but you got to hear her say she doesn't care. Yeah. I know it's hard to hear. Yeah. It is.

So how can I help you, man? I hate that you're going through all this. I don't know. I understand. I've got to go through the self-healing process first. I'm still going. Well, you do, but... Really just move. I'm in a hole and I'm just trying to figure out how that light at the end of the hole... Yeah, stop digging. Yeah. Stop digging.

Okay. Here's why I wrote this down. When you first started talking, you came into this marriage thinking you were less than her sexually, financially, probably attractiveness. Like you came in thinking, Oh my gosh, look at the fish I got on this line. Yeah. And so everything, all of your actions are from a position of, I love how you just ended it. I'm in a hole.

Yeah. And until you stop working, walking around, giving your credit card to a, to a porn company is in the whole behavior. Yeah. That is less than that is. I am desperately trying to feel alive in my own skin so much so that I'll take one of the most, um, uh, untrustworthy groups of people on the planet and give them my account number. Yeah. Yeah.

You said something that I want to make sure I double click on. You kind of held some stuff back from her because you were worried about her judging you. But I got a sense that you kind of feel righteous about that. Like, yeah, see? When you found out, now you're judging me.

not not really and i dove i dove into that as i've always had issues with being vulnerable yeah um to this previous previous life i i lost my dad when i was in fifth grade and you know i kind of was forced to grow up and had to put on this persona of being 10 foot tall and bulletproof for family and stuff like that and i've always had a

of letting myself be vulnerable to other people. And I didn't realize how much that affected me until I dove in with my personal therapist. So it was a scare. I was scared of being... And I don't blame her for the way that she acted. Well, but hold on, hold on. It's very, very rare. Yeah.

I'm not sitting in day in and day out in marriage therapy offices, okay? So in law offices. But in my world, it is very, very rare for somebody to find an old incidence of paying for pornography, search history, found an old expense. What was this? Because that story is not super ring and true with me. Either that or she wanted out of this thing so bad and she found a path.

Yeah, and that's what I'm thinking, that this was kind of a death of a thousand cuts. Yeah, but you were only together seven months. There's not even time to have a thousand cuts unless you're screaming at her and hitting her and swearing and just being an all-around scumbag, right? Yeah, no, and it was actually kind of the opposite direction. So what did she find? That's what she told me, you know, and there was really nothing else. I mean, I had tried to start...

I'd try to start a business right there when we got married, which took a lot of my time, which probably wasn't the smartest move on my part. That's all fine and good. There's something else here, brother. And I don't know. Was it pornography or was it webcam girl? Was it interactive?

No, it wasn't interactive. It was only fans, but I was strictly paying for videos. There was no interaction there or anything like that. I was just paying for videos and subscriptions. And she basically said that I lied about it. I relapsed. I'm cheating on her.

Well, and you say you don't have an addiction problem, but you continue to use addiction language. Yeah. And I was never clinically diagnosed as addicted. Sure. I guess I am. I mean, I don't think you are, just from what you're talking about, but I don't work with you day in and day out, so I don't know. But I really don't know how I can help other than the faster you exhale into –

I mean, she's, it's one thing if she says, I want a divorce, takes her ring off and then doesn't do anything for a month or two. Yeah. Then you, in my world, that's the, so you're telling me there's a chance. Yeah. This is, this is filing. Here's the paperwork. The lawyers have a date and we're moving down the road. That's when, here's the deal, man. You can't go to all this therapy and do all this stuff to try to win her back. You got to go to therapy and stuff because she,

there's something not right. And it might be that she's not right. And I might say, she can do whatever she wants. She can divorce you for whatever reason. And she feels this is infidelity. It's infidelity. I'm out. Okay. But either this is just, I don't know. I'd have to talk to both of you longer, I think, to get a better beat on this thing. But what I can tell you is the faster you exhale and grieve this thing, it's heartbreaking.

You did some stuff. You weren't honest about it. It doesn't matter what anybody else's opinion on it is. She says that's a violation. That's infidelity. I'm out. I can't trust you sexually. I can't trust you financially. You hide things. You go change labels. We went to marriage counseling in June and it's August when I found this out. And so we've been through two or three months of counseling and you didn't tell me that I'm out. I'm out. People can judge her all day long, but she's got every right to walk. It's you that's got to exhale and go, okay, this is happening.

What's going to be different next time? And by the way, she's not a unicorn, dude. When you put that kind of pressure on somebody that somehow you've found this mystical being that people tell you doesn't exist, you find somebody and you choose to love them. And you keep showing up and you keep showing up and you keep showing up. So yeah, the best thing to say, man, is keep seeing a counselor, but also put yourself in a position where you can begin to act differently in a way that you learn to trust you.

Because right now you're entering into all these relationships, the counselor, the marriage, the everything from in a hole. Stop digging and just stand up. The hole's not as deep as you think it is. Stand up. And this one may have cost you everything. And if they get down on the chin, that's another big loss for you. First your dad and your marriage. That's tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough. There is healing on the other side, man. But you got to own the reality of where you find yourself. Thanks for the call, man.

Best of luck to you. Holler back if I can help in any way, man. If you've got some directed questions I can help with, I'd be happy to walk with you. We'll be right back.

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All right, we're back. Let's go out to Reno, Nevada and talk to Jason. Redeem the show, Jason. What's up? Good morning, sir. How are you today? I'm all right, brother. What's going on in your world? Just a quick correction. It's Nevada, not Nevada. The true Nevadans will catch you on that one. You. I'm just saying. Desert. Dweller. Desert rat, for sure. Okay, say it one more time. It's Nevada, Nevada.

It's Nevada. Nevada. It's Nevada. We from Nevada, man. We from Nevada. Yeah. All right. Sounds like you're falling and just hit the ground like Nevada. And we don't count Vegas. Vegas is California, so whatever. We here in Texas and Tennessee, we call it Nevada because we're—

Yeah. We're a little bit perfect with our speech. I'm just letting you know, if they're from Nevada, they're going to roll their eyes at you. Trust me, bro. I've said Louisville. I almost got shot for that one. What was the one in Pittsburgh that I said, Kelly? Lancaster. Yeah. I said Lancaster. It's Lancaster. You would have thought. Anyway. Okay. So I didn't know that one. Anyway. Nevada. Jason from Nevada. Nevada.

What's up, man? Hey, my world kind of blew up and the ride or die said she didn't want to be married anymore. I gave her, I did. Yeah, it was rough. I did the turn the lights off or turn the lights on, slow down the music conversation at breakfast. And I thought it was pretty good. And she said, nope. And I said, okay. So then I followed up a couple of weeks later, said, all right, well then I wrote an email and said, well, I think these are the options.

blow it up the house. You sell it. We don't have a place to live. You try and buy me out. I try and buy you out. You know, you get the lawyers involved with a lot of money trying to be respectful and amicable. We got two sons.

And she's like, well, what about nesting? Oh, God. So what it turned and it turned into, I was like, all right, I can go explore that option. We got a I got a family member down the road a little bit. And I said, I'll go see if, you know, their extra room is available. And they would they said, well, before I could even have that conversation, it was breakfast. Made some phone calls, this and that.

Um, then she's like, wait, no, let's not do that. We left breakfast saying, let's try nesting. That was kind of the, you know, and then on my way over to like have that, well, no, what about just co-parenting under the same house, knowing what we know and not telling anybody yet. I'm like, wait, what? Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. Nesting is a terrible idea.

That's kind of what I was thinking. So on the follow-up that, a week later, she's like, can you come to my terrorist appointment? I was like, sure, yeah. You got something to say? Well, I just need to save space to talk about this. All right, what you got? Well, what about separation and you just leave for a little while while I get my stuff lined out? In my head...

- No. - You're the one wanting a divorce. I said-- - That's right. - I want to ride or die. I wanna go. I can fix this. I don't think there's grounds, like there wasn't any infidelity, like I'm not some drunk, I'm not a bad guy, I don't think. And I think when I hear you, I've been binging your show for about six months, and I can see the failure factory. I can see the not handling your own trauma. I've gone through my own journey. We had drama with my youngest, this and that.

And I don't think she processed it. And it's turning into, I don't want to be married. And if I do something else and I don't know what to do, because the next conversation with the therapist last night was, well, what if you leave the house and I stay here? I'm like, wait, what? No. Yeah, no. If she wants to leave you, she can leave you. She's an adult and you can't stop her. Okay. But coming up with these bull crap, hippie, dippy, over-intellectualized ways to avoid reality.

And for people listening, nesting is we're going to keep the kids at the house because supposedly it's better for the kids, for mom and dad to get divorced, but the kids to stay in the house. And mom lives there a couple days a week and dad lives there a few days a week instead of them going back and forth. The part that the intellectual goofballs leave out is –

If we had that ability to coordinate, we'd be able to fix our marriage. If we had that kind of resources, we could, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just, it's, it's lunacy. And the fact that kids are, are, are air filters for a home, they absorb everything. And so when you have just, it's, it's just madness. It's madness, dude.

Anyway, I could go on. I don't want to derail the conversation. It sounds like, yeah, I trust you, man. You sound like a pretty amazing guy. It sounds like your wife is spinning out and is just trying to whack a mole with feelings and hurt and all that stuff. And you're bearing the brunt of it. But at the end of the day, she's choosing to dissolve your marriage and leave. Then if she's making that choice, that choice comes with a whole bunch of consequences.

and choosing to work on your marriage and to recommit and build something new, that's a choice too. Both of those are hard. She just has to choose her heart.

So then, okay, I told that. She's like, I don't want to choose at heart. Okay, fair. So then the next conversation stepped up to like, all right, well, then what do you tell the boys? What I want to tell the boys is like, I wanted to be married. Mom didn't. Yes. And I don't bet. How old are they? We're in the third, about to be 13, a couple months and about to be 10. Yes, that is a fair statement.

Right. And the therapist, which I think is a loon, she's like, well, yeah, let's not, you know, something where, you know, a villain vilifies one person or the other. But one person is the villain here. Well, no, she said something like that. I'm kind of like I told her I want to be married and she doesn't want like a nine year old. That's OK for a nine year old. I mean, to hear that.

It's like, hey, mommy is struggling with a 13 year old. Yeah, you got to be honest, because here's the deal. You can't risk them thinking as their world is exploding. Oh, my dad's a liar, too. Right, right. That is hyper untethering. There is something about you guys sitting there saying to the ends of the earth, we love you.

Yeah. We will always be there for you. We will always figure out a way to come through for you. All that kind of stuff that parents need to say together to a 13 year old whose whole world is exploding. But also it, I think it's fair to say mom is going through a lot right now and she is choosing to not be married anymore.

Okay. We both still love you. She loves you forever. And yes, a 13 year old is going to go, Hmm. I wonder if one day she chooses to not want to be my mom. That is a fair question. Right. And that's needs to be addressed on the table. And you can't avoid this with a nine year old. It does need to be a little more delicate.

Yeah, he's our special one. And he understands. He's smart. He has the medical stuff. And again, there's my... After listening to you, I can be like, hey, you didn't resolve this grief. You didn't. And I had people that had my back and mowed my lawn. And I cried with a lot of guys. And she didn't have that. And she didn't look for it from me either. And my guess is it's well-dubbed inside of her soul. That plus everything else plus...

probably some resentment that you had all the support and she didn't and yada yada at the end of the day she doesn't she doesn't feel safe in her own skin she doesn't like the life she's co-created right and I can't do nothing about that except make money and try and be around right well I mean the only thing you could do is what you've done which is say hey we have we have co-created this life I want to co-create a new one with you and she said no yep and so then my

Yeah, there's not a way to soft land this. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to tell her. And I think you're on to something, and this isn't every relationship, but I think in your marriage particular, I think you love her enough and see enough, have known her well enough to know this is going to be yet another Xanax.

Oh, and I want to clarify also, like I've had my Xanax too. Don't get me wrong. We all do. We all do. I did it. Like I messed up and you know, I look forward to it, but I get it. We all, we all have, we all do. We all do. I'm saying, you know, this is her kicking the can down the road even further. That's what I feel like. She'll have a reckoning at some point with the mirror, with the mirror.

So my dilemma now is like, all right, well, now she wants to, but nothing was a first. Now the second one's like, how about you move out of the house just so I can buy some time so that I can set myself up and, you know, my teaching credential needs to come through and this and that and blah, blah, blah. Big, big boy and big girl decisions come with big boy and big girl choices and consequences, period. How do I say that lovingly?

I think is loving. Nothing you say is going to be received lovingly because lovingly for her is I want the world to bend to how I feel in this particular moment. And she found some therapists that would bend that way. She found some internet article that said, well, here's an alternative to reality. We'll call it nesting where we're going to live under the illusion that the kids lives aren't disrupted or they're minimally disrupted when it's just, you know what I mean?

So to me, I want to turn it into a like, find it. Like I make all the money, not all the money she makes. She has two part-time jobs and she's like, well, and a few years ago she, she put her, started putting her, she just got into part-time jobs. She had a teaching career for a little bit and started putting stashing all that money into an account. I couldn't, okay, fine. Whatever. That's her savings. I make enough money to make the house go. Right. So her, well, if you move out, I'll start putting my part-time paychecks in there so we can run the house. I'm like, it costs $4,000 a month to run the house.

Like you're $80, $100, whatever it is, and you want me to move out? That doesn't sound like I deserve that one, but I don't know how to not turn this into a bickering, fighting, blow-up grenade and still hold integrity and do the right thing. It already is. It already is. And so let me just say this. In my house, I would –

heartbreakingly and with all the grief in the world, if my wife was having the same conversation, I would say, hey, I love you. And if you need to go, I won't stand at the door like you're an adult. I'll do anything and everything that I can to help you create a world where you feel safe enough to stay. But if you want to go, you can go. I'm not going to leave. This is my house and these are the kids. And if you want to take the kids from their home, you can take me to court. But you can't pretend that you're

You can't, at the same time you're blowing up this family, you can't also pretend that everything is mostly going to stay the same. And I would say that in an honorable way and retaining her dignity, she's clearly going through hell. But it's a disassociative, like she does not have her feet on the ground. And I'm heartbroken that she got in with a therapist that didn't firmly plant her feet on the ground.

And say, I'll sit with you and walk with you and I'll hold up a mirror as we go through this separation, this divorce. But I'm going to be honest. We've got to make a budget. And we're going to have to talk about what no fault looks like in Nevada. And we've got to go through these things and what sharing custody is because the world you're envisioning is not a real world. And her therapist failed her and I'm sorry. I'm just looking for anything else I can do that could be a right move. I think you're a pretty good man.

Thank you. I mean, it sounds like you've gone to hell and back. Or maybe you're not back yet. I'm back. I'm getting there. Yeah, I know. Well, here's the thing. The challenge is when you get back, your skin's a little bit thicker, and it's easy to want to just mount up and go to war. And I think for you, the challenge is going to be exhaling. Because pretty soon, she's going to go from this woman I'm desperately trying to stay married to to a woman who's blowing up my kids' lives.

War would feel better. You're right. It's harder to stay in it. And it's harder to make that shift. Like, I'm going to model for my two boys what dignity and respect looks like when they're getting punched in the face. So hard. But this is my home. This is their home. And we're going to stay here. If you want to go, I'm not going to slash your tires. Hey, brother, I'm heartbroken for you. Hey, how about this? See if your wife will call in.

Okay. I sent her one just to see if she would do it. Like, hey, check this out. And I told her, I called her. I alluded to your advice. I said, hey, I'm talking to this guru. She's like, who's your new guru? I'm like, I got a guru. Hey, thank you for your time. I really appreciate what you do. All right, brother. Thanks for being in our gang, dude. I'm so sorry this is happening, man. Thank you. Take care. So, so, so sorry. We'll be right back.

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All right, we are back. I guess we're a month out from the last Money in Marriage event. We got tons of just pretty amazing questions that were part of a lot of the Q&As that we do. The October Money in Marriage and the February Money in Marriage for 2025 and 26 are already open. If you want to come join us in Nashville, Tennessee, it's just an extraordinary weekend. But here's a question that comes from the Money in Marriage weekend.

We are in our late 30s and we make about 250 grand a year. Dang, Gina. Maybe y'all are hiring. We both come from families that struggled financially. We've made more disposable income than we thought we'd ever make. We like to spend money on things like travel. Last year, we spent 20 grand on travel. Is that too much? How do we think through the best way to allocate quote-unquote extra money and not feel guilty? Um...

Man, this is something that actually my buddy Dave Ramsey has taught me about personally because I grew up with not a lot too, and my life has changed here now that I'm living in this, the last great loophole of mankind called podcasting. Well, there's a couple of things here. Number one, if you find yourself with more money than you ever thought you would make, it's important to acknowledge the ratios.

Meaning, if you make $30,000 a year, you're driving a used Corolla and you're going to drive it till it dies, right? Because that's X percentage of your annual salary. If you make $500,000 a year, then...

a nice used Lexus and a new, a new Lexus, um, proportionally to your salary is less than that used Corolla was to when you made 30,000 bucks. So there's something about the ratio that has given me peace. It lets me exhale a little bit. Um, the second thing here is, um,

Some people who grew up with money, very scarce, it's wired into your nervous system. Money is something to be afraid of. There's never gonna be enough. It's always gonna run out. That's just your body trying to take care of you. So don't go to war with your body

But I always tell people when you're making out a budget to put money that you will give away and put that at the top of the list. Giving is a, it's a, it's a way to enter into the world as though I am participating in this world. I'm a person who gives, I'm a person of generosity. And the second one is I tell people who are struggling with scarcity mindsets or that guilt feeling you have, put money away that you will spend on yourself. You have to practice giving.

You have to practice joy. You have to practice peace. Those are just things we've never done before. It's great. It's good. And then the last thing is feeling guilty. You might feel guilty for a while. And so you can come up with some tips or tricks like, um,

i don't know i'm gonna commit to giving away if i'm gonna go on a vacation that cost x i'm gonna give away a quarter of that money um to a charity that i love or to some friends who want to send their kid to college or whatever to a family member whatever you can come up with stuff like that i personally like the idea of feeling a little bit guilty looking at the math and saying is math on my side here yes and then go on a vacation and while you're on the vacation um

Or on these different travel experiences, which by the way, I think the data says spending money on experiences turns your default setting towards joy, happiness, if you will, more than buying stuff, than things, right? You tend to fall back to baseline more. But go on the trip and feel it while you're there.

I never pictured myself here. This is outside of my picture, but here I am on this really nice vacation. Here I am at a concert on the other side of the country. Here I am. And just be present in that space and then be grateful for it. Choosing to change your default setting from panic and running all the time to gratitude just helps. Um,

But man, late 30s, make about 250K a year. You don't owe anybody any money. I'm going to read that into this. If you owe people money, if your brain knows we're on a $20,000 vacation and they're going to take our cars from us if we get fired, then yeah, you're not going to sleep. Your body would be failing you if it let you sleep. If you have a mortgage out and they know, hey, we could lose the house if we don't. Your body's not failing. It's working just as it should by giving you these feelings, these powerful emotions. But I think there's just some honesty in, man, I never thought I'd have a marriage this good.

Feels weird when we're just sitting on the couch at peace. Man, I never thought I would be this healthy after I lost all this weight. I'm just going to feel that for a minute. I never thought we'd have money like this after growing up in a scarce environment. I'm just going to sit in that discomfort for a minute. And then I'm going to be really grateful that we got struck by lightning and we're here. And I'm going to be super, super, super generous. And then we're going to book that trip because we're going to go see the world. So hopefully that helps. Thank you for that question. And it happens more than you think.

Get tons and tons of calls on the Ramsey show, the other show that I co-host. People struggling with how to spend their money when they've actually get there. When struggling with, man, we worked really hard and we've saved up for this car. Is it okay to get it? It's a very real thing. So thanks for the call. Thanks for being vulnerable and honest. Appreciate you. Love you guys. Bye.