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What Elon Musk Wants

2025/2/7
logo of podcast The Ezra Klein Show

The Ezra Klein Show
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Ezra Klein
一位深受欢迎的美国记者、政治分析师和《纽约时报》专栏作家，通过其《The Ezra Klein Show》podcast 探讨各种社会和政治问题。
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Kara Swisher
卡拉·斯威舍是一位知名的媒体评论家和播客主持人，专注于科技和政治话题的深入分析。
Topics
Ezra Klein: 我认为马斯克在联邦政府中的角色远超预期,几乎涉及每个机构和角落。他似乎已经获得了访问至少11个机构的权限,并控制了美国国际开发署。我一直很费解,他究竟是如何从一个关注气候变化和想去火星的奥巴马时代自由主义者,转变为试图在德国选举极右翼并在美国摧毁联邦政府的右翼阴谋论者?他究竟给政府带来了什么实际策略? Kara Swisher: 我觉得马斯克是联邦政府中的一个破坏者,被特朗普利用来实现其目的。他总是在他的公司里采取一系列相同的行动,现在他把这些行动大规模地应用在联邦政府上。他的行为总是充满戏剧性,且以他为中心。他深受视频游戏的影响,总是把自己看作是英雄或最重要的人。他倾向于夸大问题,将一切描述为灾难,并声称自己是来解决问题的。他及其团队识别并控制信息和资金的关键节点,以违反常规规则的方式进入关键领域,并不在乎是否违法。他采取先行动后承担责任的策略,类似于特朗普。他追求的是权力,以及用权力来做决定的能力,他认为自己对所有问题都有答案。

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter explores Elon Musk's transformation from a conventional Obama-era liberal to a prominent figure in the right-wing. It questions the factors behind this change and examines his strategies within the government.
  • Elon Musk's initial role in the Department of Government Efficiency was narrowly defined, but it rapidly expanded.
  • Musk's actions involved various agencies, including access to sensitive systems like the Treasury Department's payment system.
  • His involvement includes offering federal employees buyouts and significant changes within USAID.
  • The chapter contrasts Musk's past environmental concerns and support for space exploration with his current far-right alignment.

Shownotes Transcript

Elon Musk has been on a slash-and-burn tear through the federal government — gaining access to I.T. systems, dismantling U.S.A.I.D. and unleashing a firehose of attacks on his platform, X, accusing the bureaucracy of various conspiratorial crimes.

As this all unfolds before our eyes, it’s hard to believe that Musk, not that long ago, was a conventional Obama-era liberal. How did a guy who cared about climate change and going to Mars, whose companies were buoyed by government largess, become Donald Trump’s most unapologetic soldier? What does he hope to do with all this power? What does Musk want?

Kara Swisher has been reporting on Musk for decades and is one of the great tech reporters of our age. She hosts the podcasts “On With Kara Swisher)” and “Pivot),” with Scott Galloway, and is the author of “Burn Book: A Tech Love Story).”

This episode contains strong language.

Mentioned:

“What’s Wrong With Donald Trump?)” by Ezra Klein

“The Men and (No) Women Facebook of Facebook Management)” by Kara Swisher

Book Recommendations:

North Woods) by Daniel Mason

On Tyranny) by Timothy Snyder

Memorial Days) by Geraldine Brooks

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts) or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.