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cover of episode What is DOGE’s Real Goal?

What is DOGE’s Real Goal?

2025/3/25
logo of podcast The Ezra Klein Show

The Ezra Klein Show
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The chapter explores the origins of the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), its branding, and the underlying agendas driving its establishment. The conversation delves into the role of key figures like Elon Musk and Donald Trump, examining whether DOGE's actions align with its purported goals of enhancing government efficiency.
  • DOGE was initially seen as a way to involve Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy in the Trump administration without placing them in the White House.
  • Elon Musk's takeover of DOGE shifted its focus, aligning it with Trump's vision of reshaping the federal government.
  • The concept of 'efficiency' is questioned, with discussions on whether DOGE's actions truly aim to make the government leaner or simply serve other political agendas.
  • There is skepticism around DOGE's effectiveness in addressing issues like the national debt, with doubts about whether its strategies can lead to meaningful fiscal improvements.
  • The chapter introduces Santi Ruiz as a key analyst of DOGE, who initially had hopes for the initiative but is now critical of its execution.

Shownotes Transcript

The so-called Department of Government Efficiency is great branding. Who could be against a more efficient government? But “efficiency” obfuscates what’s really happening here.

Efficiency to what end? Elon Musk, President Trump and DOGE’s boosters have offered various objectives — cutting the deficit, eliminating fraud and abuse, creating a leaner and more responsive government. But DOGE’s actions in the past two months don’t seem to align with any of those goals.

Santi Ruiz is the senior editor at the Institute for Progress and the author and host of the “Statecraft)” podcast and newsletter. He’s to my right politically and had higher hopes, at first, about DOGE’s efforts, but he’s now grappling with the reality of what it’s actually doing.

This episode contains strong language.

Mentioned:

“50 Thoughts on DOGE)” by Santí Ruiz

“How to Defend Presidential Authority)” by Santí Ruiz

“The Anti-D.E.I. Crusader Who Wants to Dismantle the Department of Education)” by Ross Douthat

Book Recommendations:

Stalin’s War) by Sean McMeekin

Back from the Brink) by Peter Moskos

Power And Responsibility) by Romano Guardini

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio, Ryan Bourne, Rohan Grey, Don Moynihan, Quinn Slobodian and Jennifer Pahlka.

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