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cover of episode Why Trump’s Tariffs Won’t Work

Why Trump’s Tariffs Won’t Work

2025/3/12
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The Ezra Klein Show

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Ezra Klein
一位深受欢迎的美国记者、政治分析师和《纽约时报》专栏作家,通过其《The Ezra Klein Show》podcast 探讨各种社会和政治问题。
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Kimberly Clausing
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Ezra Klein: 我认为特朗普的关税政策是错误的,并且对美国经济有害。它不仅损害了华尔街,也损害了美国普通民众。特朗普政府对关税政策的实施缺乏周全的考虑,导致了可预测的问题。关税政策缺乏透明度,容易导致权力滥用和裙带关系。 此外,关税政策对美国农业造成了负面影响,并且缺乏逻辑性。它类似于供给冲击,会导致通货膨胀和经济衰退。经济不确定性正在阻碍经济增长。特朗普政府的关税政策可能是为了转移注意力或重新塑造其形象,或者是为了为减税提供理由。 特朗普政府关于关税的说法(作为谈判工具和促进国内生产)之间存在矛盾。关税政策一旦开始实施,就很难停止。特朗普政府对加拿大和墨西哥征收关税与之前达成的贸易协议相矛盾。特朗普政府的关税政策与美国在世界上的地位相悖。 最后,我认为特朗普政府的关税政策是一种腐败和裙带关系的工具。 Kimberly Clausing: 关税是一种税收,它会使进口商品以及与进口商品竞争的商品价格上涨。关税收入由海关人员从进口商处收取。关税的负担主要由美国进口商品的购买者承担。特朗普政府的关税政策导致美国家庭每年额外支出约1200美元,甚至可能高达2000美元。 特朗普政府的关税政策每年大约能增加1500亿美元的税收收入,但这只是一个静态估计,没有考虑经济增长的负面影响。关税收入的静态估计没有考虑经济增长负面影响以及对受损行业的补偿成本。特朗普政府用关税收入补偿受损农民的成本很高,这使得关税政策并非有效的财政解决方案。 特朗普政府关于关税的几种说法相互矛盾,无法同时实现。通过对所有国家的进口商品征收高额关税来大幅增加美国国内商品生产比例的想法是不现实的。以往的经验表明,关税并没有显著增加就业,反而可能导致其他行业的就业减少。 对中间产品的关税会提高美国商品的生产成本,从而损害美国生产。其他国家的报复性关税会损害美国出口商的利益。关税政策实际上可能导致就业岗位减少,而非增加。关税政策缺乏透明度,其成本分散,而受益者则更容易识别其利益来源。 关税政策赋予行政部门过大的权力,容易导致权力滥用和利益输送。特朗普政府利用关税政策来惩罚其认为与其利益不符的个人和奖励与其利益一致的个人。关税政策类似于供给冲击,会导致通货膨胀和经济衰退。特朗普政府的关税政策具有破坏性,如果不迅速扭转,可能会造成巨大的痛苦。 北美汽车产业的零部件生产高度一体化,关税会导致关税叠加效应。追踪每个汽车零部件的增值税务成本很高,这使得自由贸易更有吸引力。关税的叠加效应会严重损害北美汽车产业。特朗普政府的关税政策可能会导致汽车制造商将生产转移到其他国家。 关税政策一旦开始实施,就很难停止。特朗普政府的关税政策可能会导致美国汽车价格上涨。特朗普政府的关税政策可能是一种策略,先从最脆弱的国家入手,然后再扩展到其他国家。特朗普政府的关税政策是错误的,并且可能需要不断扩大。特朗普政府的关税政策是愚蠢的。 关税是一种消费税,主要由穷人和中产阶级承担。特朗普政府的减税政策对富人的好处大于对穷人和中产阶级的好处。特朗普政府的关税政策和减税政策共同导致了税收负担的转移。特朗普政府的经济政策具有欺骗性。经济不确定性正在阻碍经济增长。 最后,我认为政府在经济中扮演着重要和有益的角色,而削弱政府职能可能会对经济产生负面影响。

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter explores the initial market reaction to Trump's election and its subsequent downturn, highlighting the impact of his tariff policies on both Wall Street and Main Street. It introduces Kimberly Clausing, an expert economist who will analyze the effects of tariffs.
  • Wall Street initially believed Trump's tariff plans were a bluff.
  • The stock market rallied after his election but later declined.
  • Tariffs negatively affect both Wall Street and Main Street.
  • Kimberly Clausing's expertise on tariffs is introduced.

Shownotes Transcript

Wall Street thought Donald Trump was bluffing about his tariff plans. The stock market rallied after his election. But the reality has started setting in. Trump is doubling down on tariffs, even as he warned Americans that the economy may experience a “period of transition,” insisting this is just short-term pain.

So what exactly is Trump’s theory here? And how much pain should we expect?

Answering those questions requires a bit of a tariffs primer. And the economist Kimberly Clausing kindly agreed to come on the show, walk through the basics, and help me make sense of what Trump is doing here. Clausing has modeled the possible costs and consequences of the tariffs Trump has proposed, and she breaks down how much you and I might end up paying. Clausing is a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, a professor at U.C.L.A. and the author of “Open: The Progressive Case for Free Trade, Immigration, and Global Capital).”

This conversation contains strong language.

Note: This conversation was recorded on Wednesday, March 5.

Mentioned:

We’re taping an “Ask Me Anything” episode soon. You can email me at [email protected]) with a question. Please use the subject like “AMA.” We’ll consider any questions that are shared by the end of the day on Tuesday March 18.

The Real Reason President Trump Pushes Tariffs)” by Kimberly Clausing

Abundance) by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

Abundance book tour)

Book Recommendations:

The Undoing Project) by Michael Lewis

Mountains Beyond Mountains) by Tracy Kidder

The Worldly Philosophers) by Robert L. Heilbroner

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Pat McCusker.

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