Becoming a Real Estate Expert with Brandon Turner
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I talk more entrepreneurs out of real estate than into real estate. Like you should not jump into real estate investing. If you have a business that has not reached its peak, stay in that one thing that you're doing. And if you are printing out so much money and you can't reinvest in yourself, fine, go give it to somebody like me, but don't go try to build another business and try to have two horses in the race. It just doesn't work.

Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields, like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership, to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello.

Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today. To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes, but I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I asked the team to take notes for you. Just text NOTES to 888-526-1299. That's 888-526-1299. And you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode.

Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book, Elevate, please go check it out. I'll share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states. Just go to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast to get your copy. Now let's go back into the interview. All right, welcome back to the Home Service Expert. Today we have Brandon Turner, this guy is a legend. Brandon's an expert in real estate marketing investments. He's...

He's the founder of Open Door Capital and previous host of Bigger Pockets podcast, which is probably the largest podcast for real estate. He's the bestselling author of several books, including the book on rental property investing and how to invest in real estate and more.

Brian, what's going on today, brother? Dude, I am so pumped and honored to be here. I got to tell you, when you came on my show, when you came on the Better Life podcast, I've interviewed 500 plus people in my life. That was one of my favorite, if not my favorite episodes I've ever done. I'm not just blowing smoke either. It was such a phenomenal time talking to you. And I was like, man, how did I not like, like, how do I get into this guy's world more? So then when you invited me on here, man, that was an honor. So thank you for having me.

Yeah, man, you've done a lot in your life. And it's kind of interesting to me because don't take this the wrong way, but I just couldn't live in Hawaii. There's people that would give their life. Like, that is their mecca. And I get it. I just...

But that's not where I wanted to start. I wanted to go into like what got you into business, what got you into real estate, what got you into podcasting. What are you up to today? What do you look forward to in the future? Yeah.

Man, that's great. Okay. Yeah. So let me, let me tackle the Hawaii thing. You're a hundred percent right. I actually struggle with it too. You know, it's kind of everyone's dream is like, Oh, I want to get financial freedom so I can go live on a beach. Like that's like a common like theme that people have. And, uh, I'll tell you, I mean, it's, it's cool, but what do they call that? The hedonic treadmill, right? Like when you, no matter how good something in life is that you just, it becomes normal really quick. And so Hawaii is just normal, but more inconvenient, right? Like it's six hours to do anything. Um,

So we spend about half the year off island, maybe a third of the year to half the year off island. So yeah, it's interesting. People who have that whole goal is just to retire. Man, if you can retire early, you won't retire early. You can't. It's just the ironic nature of things. You just couldn't do it. You couldn't just sit around. Anyway, so yeah, my story. Let me go back. I got kind of a few phases. And you can feel free to interrupt me in a

ask questions anywhere. I mean, blue collar Midwest family. I grew up in Minnesota. My dad's a butcher mom to daycare in our house. So very like lower blue class, blue collar, um, you know, went to college, kind of worked my way through five different colleges, trying to stay at a student loan debt, a bunch of community colleges and, and all that got done with it and decided to go to law school. Cause I didn't really know what else to do.

And as I'm studying for law school, I bought a house. Back then it was like 06, right? 06, 07. They were just throwing mortgages at anybody. So like, hey, 18 year old kid with no credit, no income, get a mortgage. And so I got one, bought a house and then I sold it. I first rented out all the bedrooms and I sold it. And I was like,

shoot, I just made like 25 grand. Like 25 grand was more money than any person I'd ever known had ever made on anything. Like that was such a tremendous amount of money. And I was like, this real estate thing is kind of cool. I mean, the starting salary for a lawyer was only like 50K if you didn't get in one of the top schools. So I'm like, maybe I'll just do the real estate thing. So that's what I did. I jumped in and just started buying little, just dumpy, crappy little houses. And my wife and I would just fix them up and be at the

painting the unit till two in the morning and renting it out to a tenant the next morning at 8 AM. And it was just like, just chaos for a few years as we just struggled to hit that like financial freedom number. But you know, we did it by 27, I was retired and yeah, I watched a lot of law and order for a few months before realizing that retirement wasn't for me. And I jumped back into kind of the next phase, which ended up becoming the internet entrepreneurship phase. But anything you want to go in on that before I move on?

Well, I still feel like you're kind of in the real estate world. I mean, you're just more of a guru now, and I think you've become more of an influencer, but you're still...

doing real estate. Yeah. When I started teaching real estate online, I hit 27. I had 30 rental units making three or four grand a month. And I'm like, I don't need to do real estate anymore. I'm done. So I just sat on a couch, watched Law & Order, and I started blogging on the internet. That turned into getting basically a job. I mean, there was equity there, but it was a job working for BiggerPockets, which was a tiny little website with no employees at the time.

I jumped at that. We started the podcast, Josh and I, who was the only, I mean, he's the founder. He was a guy who had a blog in his basement. And together we started the podcast and it just blew up. It ended up becoming, yeah, like you said, one of the bigger podcasts in the world, 100 plus million downloads. But yeah, the idea of the guru, right? The real estate investor who's out there selling education and not actually doing it. That always plagued me.

So like I always made sure I was still investing a little bit. And then I remember, I actually remember the exact spot I was. I was on stage at this big conference. There was a thousand, there was a thousand like syndicators, like big real estate investors with thousands of units. And they're out there in the audience. And here I am on stage with my 30, 35 units, something like that.

And the only reason I was there is because I had a big podcast, a big mouth, and I could help sell tickets. I didn't deserve to be on that stage. And I remember just thinking that, like, shoot, I do not deserve to be here. And I made a commitment that day. I was like, I want to be back here someday and deserve it. So I went home and I...

I jumped into real estate heavy, uh, built a company, hired a bunch of employees. We can talk about that, that process made a bunch of mistakes, but ended up acquiring, uh, just, we just crossed the billion dollar mark. So 13,000 units, a billion dollars, we've raised 350, $400 million, uh, just from normal people, uh, across the internet and across the world. And, uh, yeah, hired 150 employees in that, uh,

that's where I am today. So now I'm running, I'm not doing the podcast, the bigger pockets one anymore. Uh, cause it wasn't mine. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm, it was, it was somebody else's. It was ended up being private equity and that's great for them. I love, I love the team, but you know, I'm a, I'm an entrepreneur at heart. So started a new podcast, started still buying real estate, going to buy probably 40 million this year. And, uh, yeah, that's my story, man. I got a lot of questions. Yeah. Um, dig in. So, uh,

You explain to me, how do you make money in real estate? There's so many different, you know, I was involved with highest cash offer, Jared Carlos Reyes back in the day, Hillary, like Danielle, smart people that have done well in the real estate industry. But I know there's people that are like, I'm trying to think. I know a lot of the guys, they would buy all my leads and yeah.

There was times we were getting a hundred leads a day. And I know the guys that said they had such a high conversion rate. They never asked for a refund. See, I've had the, the, the greatest honor of knowing some of the best people in that because they knew how to do business. And so they never asked for a refund. They never said the leads are down. They never, they didn't care. There was one of their lead sources. You know what I mean? It was like, that was one of the least first out of a hundred. And they were just like, yeah, we'll pay. It's good. So,

I guess, how do you, and what's your investment portfolio strategy?

Yeah, man. So, I mean, like you said, there's a lot of ways to make money in real estate, right? Like early on, the way that I usually teach it for those who are just like not super familiar with how real estate investing works, there's like four primary ways you make money, right? There's cashflow. This is true for business too, I suppose. But there's cashflow, which is like the profit you make every month. And then there's the appreciation, like your property should go up in value over time. You know, obviously there's dips and there's times where it slows down. But if you look over a long period of 30 years, there's never been a time in American history that real estate didn't go up

pretty significantly over a 30-year period or 20-year period. I think even a 10-year period has never not been higher than it was 10 years earlier. I think I read that stat recently.

So you make money by appreciation. That's the second way you make money by paying off the loan. This one, people don't think a lot about, but if almost all real estate spot with a loan, and then of course, you know, whatever's left over after paying the mortgage and all your bills as your cashflow, but the loan gets paid off every single year. So imagine you bought a property, had no cashflow. You broke even every month for 30 years. You, it never went up in value. You bought it for a million. It's still worth a million.

But if you had a loan that got paid off every month, 30 years from now or however long your loan was for, it's at zero, which means now you're a millionaire, right? So like you automatically build wealth every single solitary month by paying off the loan. That's the third way. And the fourth way is just by tax savings. Like you can actually offset your earned income from, you know, from other things. Like I make a lot of money from book royalties. I sell, I don't know, half a million books a year or something like that.

I make good money from book royalties. I don't pay taxes typically on that book royalties, even though it has nothing to do with real estate. I mean, other than the real estate books, but there are unique strategies for offsetting income. So it's kind of like making money because it's money that you're not losing to the government. So you make money in those four ways.

Now I do it in a slightly different, well, yeah, I do it. I do the same way. I just do it a much larger scale. So today I raise money from just normal people who have money, like accredited investors. So wealthier people, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners, a lot of actual real estate investors. They chip in, everyone puts in like a hundred grand, 200 grand, 300 grand, whatever. We'll raise 10, 20, $30 million in a fund. And then we'll go buy 10 properties. Then over time,

They get the majority of the profits. They'll get 70%, sometimes 80, even 90% of the profits. And I'll just get 10, 20 or 30. It just depends on the deal and how good it is. And so I'm just betting that getting, you know, call it 20% of a billion dollar portfolio is better than me doing it on my own.

And so by raising the capital, I don't mind giving away 80%. You're diversified. Yeah, exactly. And so I'm spread out across. We've got almost 100 deals across our portfolio, mostly mobile home parks. That's kind of been our bread and butter. I like mobile home parks. We can talk about that if you want, but I've been a big fan of mobile home communities. I've got some self-storage. I've got apartment complexes in there. I do a little bit of private lending and mortgage stuff in there, but the primary business

primary amount of that, most of it is mobile home parks. Unlike most... No, I shouldn't even say unlike it because like most businesses...

I get paid at the end. Like the bulk of my money goes at the end. My investors get most of the money up front. And when you own a big business, typically your employees get a lot of the money up front and it gets reinvested, but you sell your company someday. And that's when the owner gets paid big, exact same thing for me. In fact, one thing that's a little different is I actually don't make any money really from open, from my billion dollar portfolio. And that sounds insane. But the reason why is because

I won my salary. I get a salary just like a business owner would, but I donate that to charity because of what I'll say in a second. So I donate the salary to charity. I then only make money after the investors have gotten their, like what it's called the preferred return. Like the investors get paid first and that takes years for them to get most of their, you know, like to get their preferred return. That can take years. So once they get their money back or- Five years. What was that?

What's the play? How long do I leave my money in? Is it a five year?

But yeah, the goal is to get people their money back. And the best thing is if you don't sell, imagine this, Tommy, I get your money back. You put in 250 grand, five years from now, you get your 250 back, but you still own the deal with me. Like we're still in the deal forever. And so a lot of our deals, we call them forever funds. There's no plan to ever sell ever. We just, every few years we refinance, we distribute more capital because you own, let's say you are the only investor, you own 70, 80% of it. So you get a big chunk of money every time we refinance.

And the great part of that is it's tax-free. You don't pay money on refinances. So we can just keep refinancing every five years, and you get more and more and more money, and you never have to pay taxes on that. You only pay taxes when you sell. Until you sell the property. Now, what about – I got some questions. So I was just thinking, you got a five-year period, seven-year period.

Yeah. I've got all these PE deals that typically after five to seven years, your money's going to triple. So you put in now literally like we know the rule of 72 and typically seven years at 10% return annualized compounding. I'm going to double. Yep. But with PE, most of the funds have proven over time that they could do a little bit better than triple the money. How does yours compare to that?

Yeah, I would say it's generally considered, real estate would be generally considered more stable or maybe more predictable is a better word than most private equity. And I don't have all the data in front of me to back that up. But I would say generally speaking, when people invest in private equity or venture capital or any of that, there is a percentage that they know are going to do really well and a percentage they know are not going to do so well. With real estate, it's much more predictable. I'm not saying we can perfectly guarantee it.

But like we can see the trends that real estate tends to appreciate by 3% per year, the value of a property. It doesn't mean your money is making 3% per year. Hopefully you're making a lot more than that. We probably average about 15%. Our target is 15% of an average annual return.

So if you're in the deal for five years, that's roughly doubling your money. It's not quite that. I don't think if you, if you look at the compounding of it, but that's, that's kind of our, our target there. But again, the, the idea is we're not saying, Hey, you know, some of the deals are going to go to zero. Some are going to go to, you know, 10 X. Some are going to just be a three X and we're going to average here. We're just like, yeah, I'm,

we shouldn't lose any, like there shouldn't be a loss ideally. Now, again, there are people who lose in real estate. I don't want to make that claim. I hope I never lose in real estate, but that's probably how it about that fits in there. So most people who invest heavily in real estate, it's because they like the predictability or they're just diversifying. They say, Hey, I love the more, you know, ups and downs of venture capital or private equity, but I like the stability of knowing it's a real asset that it's just sitting there

It's always going to be in demand. If somebody's bad at managing it, they'll just have another manager come in. It's just much more stable. What would you say? You know, you made the comment that you were on stage and you felt like an imposter. Yeah. How many coaches do you know? How many people that aren't making it in the real world that literally are all over social media, the writing books, they're selling courses. What percentage would you say is,

Yeah. Like I still own A1 GarageBars. I'm still the CEO. I'm still fighting the fighter, the greater fight. So you can't really argue with the results. They're everywhere. But I'm just curious because a lot of people, they decide I want to teach now, but they never really made it in the real world.

Yeah. You know, here, here's what I see in real estate. There's a, there's a, this guru cycle, we'll call it. What happens was what happens is somebody will do well in real estate. Now it's a, it's a subjective kind of term, but like, let's say they buy a dozen Airbnbs and they, they're doing pretty well with those Airbnbs. They're making five, 10, $15,000 a month in profit.

And then the Airbnb game changes. And that investor, because I mean, real estate goes in cycles and all of a sudden they can't do Airbnb anymore. And they're like, oh, shoot, what do I do? Oh, I'll go teach it. So now they're not doing the thing that made them successful. They're teaching the thing that made them successful. And ironically, that thing doesn't work anymore. And so they're doing that. They're not doing the thing anymore. They're teaching it. And they have great stories and testimonials of themselves saying, hey, no, this is literally what I did. It just doesn't work that way anymore.

I don't know percentage wise, but I guess that half of the people online teaching this stuff is in that category. You also find a lot, and this is true in business too, is a lot of people have just done very few things. You know, they buy their first three properties and they're like, well, that's fun, but I could teach it and make a lot more. And it's true. You can make more teaching than you can buy three properties.

But you're not going to become a billionaire by teaching it. And like, you know, my ambitions, not that I really care about being a billionaire, but I want to give away a billion dollars in my life. Like that's literally my like life goal. If I could give away a billion, it means that I earn more than that.

which sounds pretty cool. And so, you know, my ambitions are a lot higher than just what I can make a few, you know, a hundred thousand or a few million bucks by teaching it. In fact, the, the, yeah, the education program I have, it's called the better life tribe. We got like 1200 people in it paying 300 bucks a month. That's a complete charity. So I don't take a salary from that either. I donate all of it because it just goes towards that. So I don't want to be known as the guy who made money off of education. Like probably like you don't either. You want to be known as the guy who made money in business and therefore you can believe you. And that's why I enjoy talking to you.

Yeah, no, this is killer, man. I love this stuff. How much do you think your personal brand because of the podcast? I mean, how much I talk about this a lot because a one made my personal brand. Now I'm trying to repay a one for making me who I am. What are your thoughts on that?

Dude, yeah. I mean, personal branding, it's everything that I've done. I mean, there are people who have done it and built big portfolios. Dude, I have this great – I'm at this conference one time, and I'm speaking there, a different conference. I'm speaking there, and this conference organizer, the guy in charge, comes up to me with this old guy. This guy is probably 80 years old. He walks up to me, and he says, hey, Brandon, I want you to meet Charles or whatever the guy's name is.

He's like, this is Charles. Charles does what you do. You guys are in the same game. And I'm like, oh, great. And then the guy, the conference organizer says, yeah, Charles, Brandon here has raised $100 million this year to buy real estate. That was like, I raised 100 million that year. And I just spoken on that. And the guy looked at me.

Like with this half like shock and half anger. And he said this, he said, Brandon, I've been in raising, I've been raising capital for 50 years, for 50 years straight, every week traveling across the country and across the world, speaking at events, going to seminars, hosting my own seminars. And I have not raised that much. And you did it in a year. He's like, how'd you do that? And I was like, Instagram. Like it's, it's silly, but it's like, he was so

Like he realized he was born in the wrong era. You know, like he spent his whole life to do what I did in a year. And granted, I didn't build my brand in a year. It took me a decade online of podcasting and writing books and working social media a lot. But yeah, man, social media is a superpower. And when you can get a million people or more to know, like, and trust you, you can do anything you want. Like with that, like it's,

I would, if somebody, I shouldn't say this, but I'll say it. If like somehow my account, my Instagram got hacked and somebody was like, you want that back? Million dollars done. You know, like that was the only option. I think there's other options that I, it's worth much more than a million dollars to me. Much, much, much more. Oh dude. I'm learning a lot more every day about this stuff. And listen, it's eyeballs, especially if you're out to do the right thing and you're out to help people. I mean, end of the day, um,

I feel like I've got a moral obligation. You know, Dan Martell was talking about his trainer and his trainer super chiseled. And he looks at, he's looking at his trainer. He goes, why don't you post more pictures of your muscles? And trainer goes, well, I'm not a douche bag, dude. I'm not going to post pictures of myself. He goes, well,

Who's that guy on the wall? He goes, dude, you know who that is? You know, it's... It was like Sylvester Stallone or Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. I think it was Arnold Schwarzenegger back in the Mr. Olympia. And he goes, why do you have that on your wall? He goes, well, he motivates me, man. He's one of the best of all time. Like, he won Mr. Olympia. Like, dude, every time I don't feel like working out, he's there, you know, to motivate me. And he goes, don't you think you'd have that effect on everybody? And the point is...

You kind of got a moral obligation to grow your audience when you're putting out the truth, especially if you're not. I always make it a very big statement to say I make a lot of money and I do a lot of garage doors. I put out a newsletter and I think we charge like 15 bucks a month. I lose money on it, like postage and the time we take to put it together. I'm like, guys, even if I sold 10,000 of these and made a buck,

You know, if I do the math, I pretty much every day that I don't go into work every day, including the weekends is over 700 grand profit to me. They're going on the next turn with PE, my percentage 700 a day. So like, I don't care about the newsletter. I'm trying to get the, I don't market in the newsletter. Like I just wish people understood that. But yeah, people, people don't know. I mean, you, you see the comments on like YouTube and social media and yours and mine, everyone else is like,

Somebody told me yesterday, go get a job. He's like, he's like, there's no way you own that many units. Go get a job loser. And I'm like, no, I,

I legit do, but people cannot fathom that one, that this is possible or two, that you can do it and actually still be a good person and want to give back. I mean, yes, I've got selfish reasons for everything I do. We all do like, I would still like to give away a billion dollars. That'd be fun because it's going to make me look like a really cool dude. Like that'd be fun. Maybe I'll run for office someday. That's a good way to get there. Right? Like, like there's still selfish reasons in there.

but it could also be true that we actually want to help people because I feel like you said a moral obligation. Like I remember what it was like to live in an alley. I lived in this crappy 400 square foot house in the alley of this crappy little town and like cars would drive by six inches from my bedroom window. Like I remember that and I remember like

that we had a storm hit our area and I didn't have enough money for food back then. Like we were scraping by. So I went to the stand in line at the government, whatever it was called. And they were handing out gift cards for food. Like I remember that having to do that. So it's like a lot of people, I think maybe people forget when they get wealthy, but most wealthy people I know, like they genuinely want to give back because they remember what it was like to not be successful and wealthy. And they just want to see more people get there. I don't understand how people just,

scroll the internet and just leave bad comments. Yeah. They're living somewhere. I feel like they're really just, there's so many victims and they have nothing better to do. So many victims.

It's like over and over and over. You know why though? Go ahead. Well, they would have to admit that they're at fault. If they're not the victim, it means they're the cause. And nobody wants to be the cause of why they're struggling. And so if instead if they can play a victim or it's either not possible, you're lying, you're a douchebag.

you're the problem, then they don't have to admit that they might be the problem. People's egos just can't handle that they might be the problem. Ironically, that's the solution to all of their problems is to admit that they're the ones that caused it and therefore they have the power to fix it, but they don't. So today, I literally, I stood up, we have our Bring the Fire meeting, every single employee's on there.

And I said, we've analyzed the numbers and in true form, the top 20% of the company is bringing 80% of the profit. And I'm like, there's, there's about 60% of you in the middle and 20% on the bottom. I said, I'm going to make you guys a deal right now. I'll Venmo you guys $500 to quit. I said, because, and I'll write you the best recommendation letter you've ever had. I said, because quite honest, honestly, I,

I can't believe in you when you don't believe in yourself. I'm going to give you every opportunity to win. And if you want it, I'll bleed for you. But this bracelet right here says aspire to be number one. And guys, I can't do this. I cannot get behind people that don't like to win.

And I hate to lose more than I like to win. And, you know, some of you guys are okay being okay. And I don't want you to say in 20 years that I worked under Tommy because the people that I want working with me are going to say they got more than they ever intended to, that their dreams came true. And you guys, if you don't want it, I'm sorry. Just let's do each other a favor and leave. I'll write you the nicest letter. I'll send you 500 bucks. I'll send you more than that if you need that. But just...

If you're not willing to push yourself and admit you need more help and ask for it, then, you know, this is a lose-lose for us. So you need to decide whether you get up or get out.

Because it's not even about the money. This is about changing your life. This is about showing up for your kids. This is about showing your wife that you're a good man when you come home and you're not worn out. And it's starting to eat healthy and it's starting to look people's in the eye when you talk and it's showing up for your family in a whole new way. And I don't care if we set records. I don't even care if we freaking lose money this month, this year. Like I'm going to be okay, but I'm not going to be okay knowing that.

I didn't do the best I could for you. And if I can't help you, I don't think you should be here. Just admit it. Hey, real quick, before we jump back into the episode, my team just sent me something really cool and I had to share it with you. It was a comment from Landon Taylor after he came to last year's Freedom event. Landon said, my dad was a general contractor for over 30 years. And if he had access to an event like this, it would have changed everything. I kind of felt like I was attending on his behalf.

Man, I love that because that's what this event is about. Not just the marketing or sales tips to up your revenue. It's about giving guys in the trade something most of us never had growing up. Access to home service legends and a community of ambitious owners who want to be number one like me.

Thank you.

That's freedom event.com. Now let's get back to it. One of the number one things people complain when they want to get into real estate, they say, well, how do I get my spouse on board? My spouse doesn't want me to do it. My spouse doesn't, doesn't want to support me in my dreams. And my answer almost every time is because you have let them down because you are not the man or the woman that you should be. And

And so they believe that you don't want to win, that you don't have the heart of a winner. And so they see you trying to do some new thing. If you can't take out the garbage when you say you're going to take out the garbage, or you don't go play with your kid when you say you're going to play with your kid, why would they expect you to win in real estate or win in business? Of course, they're not going to support you.

because you don't deserve to be supported. And nobody likes to hear that, but it's like my, my, and I want to just pat myself on the back here, but like, if I said anything to my wife that I was going to go start a new thing, no matter what that thing is, she's going to support me on it because I have never, I generally never let her down. Like if I say I'm going to do something, I'll do it a hundred percent of the time because I know that I can't lose that trust. I need that trust. So I just, for people out there. Yeah. Like how do you become the best?

How do you aim for number one? One of our core values is be the best. If there's anybody who's better at me than anything, it's not like an, I'm not mad at them. I'm just like super. I'm like, I'm going to get better at it. Like when I see how well your podcast is doing, Tommy, I'm like, I think it's crush. It's crushing mine. And I'm like,

I'm going to beat him. Like I have, I have to do better. What's he doing? What's he doing? I got to do better. And it drives me to plan to get way better. I mean, I just hired a cornhole coach, like to get better at cornhole. Like literally like I hire coaches all the time. I want to go back to one thing because I think it's important. And like the first thing I just was on stage this week and it was only about 150 people.

And I said, all you guys divest out of the one thing, your best investment, which is your home service company. Those are typical stages for me, home service. I go, a lot of you guys are going to do Airbnbs and VRBOs and you're investing in your buddy's barber shop and you've invested in a storage facility. You're

You're divesting out of the one thing you need. You spend five years of sweat equity. You go hard in the pit. You give it everything you got. And the day it starts returning, the ROI comes in. We need to buy a Harley because we want to go to Sturgis and we deserve it. We need to buy that second house on the river. We should get into Airbnb. What in the hell? If you double down on the one thing that's bringing you guys everything because there's this crazy thing out there that nobody understands.

Brandon, I don't know how to explain this to people. Yeah, dude, I just did a similar talk. I took out a big whiteboard and I drew like an exponential graph, like an exponential growth where it starts slow, right? And then it moves up, kind of hockey sticks up. And I said, almost every entrepreneur I know, they get to this point, it takes like five

Like I love you said five years. It's five years to get really good traction generally for most business owners and another five before you really feel like you made it. So it might be five or 10 years for a lot of people to really do it at about the five year, six, seven year mark. It's that hockey stick starts going up and then they get complacent. They get bored and they jump into real estate or Amway or something and

because the thing that they were doing got repetitive. It got boring. And so they jump into something that they have no business jumping into. And then the irony is now they start back over.

at the beginning. And they have to go another five to 10 years before they feel successful at that. And people do it over and over and over their whole life. So yeah, I talk more entrepreneurs out of real estate than into real estate. You should not jump into real estate investing. If you have a business that has not reached its peak, stay in that one thing that you're doing. Stay in your lane. And if you are printing out so much money and you can't reinvest in yourself, fine. Go give it to somebody like me or a syndicator or find some way to passively invest it or dump it into S&P 500. But

Yeah, don't go try to build another business and try to have, you know, two horses in the race. It just doesn't work. This idea of arbitrage, nobody understands this. I literally sit down to people and I'm like, okay, guys, listen. And there's a question I ask. I say, listen, what do you want to sell your business? How many people want to sell in under five years? There's three out of 150 hands that go up. And I go, why? And some of them go, well, we want to do what you do. We want to get to $100 million valuation. Okay, why? Why?

Most broke people know how they're going to spend the money.

Or like we want to help everybody. Like all you need is $5 million. I'm sorry. Like I've done very well, but like you could buy a nice house. But when you have money, every door opens. There's like you've got access. You can hire coaches. It's this crazy thing. It's like if I told everybody like sell your business within three years. And then here's the thing.

If I was to tell you we're selling your business in six months, what would you do? Well, I know I'd fire this guy, fire this guy, move this guy up. I'd get rid of the bad trucks. I'd go out and clean this up. I'd finally paint this area. I'd make like, why don't you do that today? Yeah. Yeah.

Like I was with Robert the other day and Robert said, raise your hand. And then he said, higher, higher, higher. And it's like, you got to tell people, like, why does it take everything bad to happen or this life occurrence for you to want to change your life or get into shape or eat healthy or get rid of the brain fog? I don't get it.

Yeah, dude, it's a plague maybe, mediocrity across the majority of the world. But I think the solution to that, at least one of the solutions to that is you get into a room with guys like you who are striving for greatness and to be the best. And all of a sudden when that becomes a norm, you start to realize, oh, yeah, maybe I can reach my hand a little bit higher. Maybe I can work a little harder. Maybe I can act like

This is actually important. It's not just a hobby. I think most people just treat their business like a hobby. It's like, oh, this would be nice to do. I'm going to do a decent job at it. And then as a result, they're not as happy or fulfilled because it's not working as well as they wish it would. And they just struggle and it gets to the end of your life. I know a couple, an old couple, they worked in real estate for 45 years. They retired-ish, they retired, and then they lost it all and got bankrupt in the same year. Like 45 years of building their business

Bankrupt, divorced, all in the same unit. I mean, they got to keep two properties, one for the husband, one for the wife at the end of the bankruptcy. And now they're just living on Social Security waiting to die because they never got great. They just were mediocre at their business their entire life. Terrible. I mean, everybody's like that, dude. Like everybody that I meet is like, what do I do next? And I'm like, well, what are your numbers? What's your booking rate?

Well, it's probably 90%. Okay. It's only one of a few things. Booking rate, conversion rate, average ticket or cost per lead. Do that is your answers. You don't know anything. You don't even understand. I had a guy that just sold a business to me. We're closing on the 23rd. He goes, Tommy, this profits EBIT as 2.2 million. And I go, okay. I go, we still going to do a quality of earnings. He goes, you don't understand. This is what I paid taxes on last year. I go, okay.

I don't care what you pay taxes on. I've had a lot of shitty CPAs. You know what he was at? 1.55. Wow. He thought he was, he paid taxes on 2.2 profit. I'm like, Oh my God. Like, like literally. And I saw his tax, like he sent them to me and I'm going, dude, like this is the branded. I had to make a lot of mistakes to get here. And listen, uh,

I'm very humble about all the mistakes. And I know, listen, I'm an overnight success of two decades of mistakes, right? Like, and I understand people are listening, going, dude, it's easy for you to say. And I say this quite a bit, but listen, man, I fall for it a lot, but the,

I make calculated choices. I lose money, but I learn it. I don't make the same mistake twice. I don't make the same mistake twice. And I just wish people understood that. Like I saw this quote today and this quote was like banger, dude. And I'm actually going to talk about it at my event. It's a mistake repeated more than once as a choice.

A mistake repeated more than once is a choice, but yet the definition of insanity, people just keep doing it. And I really wanted to ask you, how many employees do you have? Some more 100 and 150, 160, maybe across the different companies. Most of that is in the management side, property management. And everybody says to me, how do you get great? How do you find so many great people? And it's, I'm curious, like, what are some of the, number one,

How do you recruit and hire? Let's start there.

Yeah. So everybody, this goes back to personal brand, almost all of my best people, like all my executives, all of my, like in all my companies, all of them have come from my audience of some kind. There are people who I've met at an event or they signed up for a mastermind that I was hosting or something like that. Or even if I just, I put the application onto my Instagram and I get 500 people to apply. Again, one of the biggest reasons to have a personal brand, an online personal brand is to attract great people.

people. Uh, cause great people. And like, I don't, my people are great and I probably don't pay them enough, but the reality is they will work for me because of who, because of the brand that I've built and what I stand for. And so I get better people than I deserve, uh, because of the, the brand that I have. And so I'm eternally thankful for those people. And I, I try to share equity as much as I can. Like most of my executives have equity in my different companies, but

Yeah, it begins with the personal brand and my audience. We then funnel everybody through a series of tests. We call it the gauntlet. You have to run the gauntlet. It's usually like six or seven tests. And the first one here, it goes back to your point of mediocrity we just talked about. The first test is very simple. Now I'm going to give away my secret here a little bit for people to apply. They'll get through the first round. The first round is send me a video explaining why you're good for this job. That's the test. Just send me a video.

60% of people do not send the video. These are people who took the time to apply from my audience and they immediately disqualify themselves right away. They don't send the video. Okay, so they're gone. And then the next test is usually, I don't even watch the videos. It doesn't matter. All I wanna know is, can you follow some basic instructions? Anyway, this test gets harder and harder and more specific for the actual world we're hiring for.

So by the time we get down to six or seven tests, there's typically three or four people left. And that's the time that we'll do an interview and then pick somebody. But by that point, it's usually pretty obvious that one person just stands out. And I've had a pretty phenomenal track record. I mean, I've had to let go of very few people going through that process. In fact, the only people I've lost have been people that maybe

sort of I cheated around that process because I just I like them so much that I'm like, well, let's just put you at the top. You can skip the first few tests. Let's just get you in because I know you're going to be great. And then, yeah, but I'd be curious, Brandon, on that, because especially for me in a blue collar industry, if it's super basic, yes. But some of these guys are technology challenged. Some of them aren't really great readers. They didn't get past 10th grade. But I look for somebody who's

That's just super great eye contact that I go have a beer with that's smiling all the time, that's cup half full, that literally makes me smile. And you meet his family or her family, and they're just – they respect one another. Like, I don't – but I'm not saying you're wrong. I'd be curious to see. Yeah, I can't hire someone that – I always say that. I can't hire someone I can't have a beer with. Like, that's like a –

one of my kind of principles is I can't hire someone I won't have a beer with. So there is that vibe check for sure. And a lot of the tests are simply like, you know, for example, for example, in the management department, right. We're hiring a resident manager at a mobile home park. Like you're right. Like these people did not graduate high school most of the time. So like the, the, the process for hiring them. And again, they don't usually come from my audience, but the process for hiring them is going to be much more simple. Like,

I sent you an email. Can you write an email back? Like just something that's actually, you know, in their job. But then I have to know that they're good people. I mean, good people doing good. It's one of our core values in our company is like that to be a good person. And I qualify that as somebody I can have a beer with somebody who's not going to cheat me, somebody who's going to put the higher good above just their own selfish desires. But man, it's a, it's hard. And then it's sometimes they just don't work out. You know what? Another challenge. I don't, I'm curious if you face this.

When I hire people, most people I hire are pretty super ambitious people. And part of that's just my audience is real estate investors and entrepreneurs. So they're really excited about growth. And so there's always that challenge of like, I know that they are actively trying to get out of the job I hired them for. What I mean by that is like everybody I hire, they're entrepreneurs at heart. And so I tend to hire, which I love hiring entrepreneurs, but they typically aren't going to stay for 20 years.

in most of those roles. And so that's something I've just learned. Like, that's why I have to share equity with people. I have to make them know that they will make more being a small fish in my pond than a big fish on their own.

And I've been pretty effective at doing it. But, you know, we've had a few people leave. I had one of the best self-storage operators in the country. One of the best guys in the country come work for me. I mean, he might be the best in the country. And like we got him because he believed in my brand and all that. And he lasted six months and then he went out and did his own thing because he realized, oh, I can make a lot more on my own. I'm the best. And we always still stay in touch and we can, you know, consult with him a little bit. But yeah, it's the challenge of hiring an entrepreneur sometimes.

Well, you know, you can make them entrepreneurs and that's where you get equity incentive programs. You got to know the right people. When you identify the best of the best, especially on an operational level like a COO, they need to have something to hold their feet down. They call them golden handcuffs and I don't like that word because really it's an incentive program that keeps you motivated. But I got a lot of – man, you got my brain like going crazy. So if you –

What's you raised a hundred million. I just, I want to do some math real quick. Let's just pretend Tommy Mello raised a hundred million dollars. Yeah. And let's say I averaged the arbitrage. Let's play. I'm saying biz I'm buying businesses for five X. Yep. And I would do a little bit better than that depending on the size, but let's just say I'm buying businesses at 2 million of EBITDA. Yep.

2 million of EBITDA. So I'm paying 10 million per business. Now, I'd probably leave them in and have them roll equity, but I want to do some quick math. So that allows me to buy 10 businesses. Are you following? Because it's 2 million of EBITDA, I'm paying 5X. So 10 times 10 gets me to that 100 million. So there's no doubt in my mind, because what I would do is I'd focus on the same industry.

And I could do this in gutters, fences, flooring, roofing, you name it, windows, anything. So what I would probably try to do here is just simply make them walk, talk, and act the same. So I'd put data science, FP&A people, build the hub, and almost like a franchise, but they all...

They report up to us. We make them on the same CRM, the same, it wouldn't be QuickBooks. It would probably be a more sophisticated, like Intact.

And so my plan would be just fix their marketing, get their KPIs dialed, and just run them up to $4 million each, right? Yep. So now we're at $40 million of EBITDA. Now, I know in my sleep I could get 15X for this. Yep. So 15X, and I would do that in three years. That's $600 million. Yeah. And listen, nothing's easy, but because I know this stuff so good, it depends on if the owners...

are douchebags or not. And it depends on if they're staying on and how good the company is. How many levers can I turn? But that's $600 million on $100 million investment. If I took 20%, I'd take minus the $100 million to invest. That's $500 million. Now, 20% of that, not a bad day. That's $100 million.

And the $400 million goes to the investors. That's a good ROI for three to four years. Yeah, it would be a phenomenal ROI for them. You know what some syndicators do in raising capital like this is they do – and we've done this before too, and it's not bad. It's more simple. You just say, hey, you get 100% of all profits and cash flow, investors –

until you get your money back. Once you get all your money back, we just split everything 50-50 going forward. So imagine making, that way you're not necessarily projecting like all these like different waterfall structures and all that. You're saying, hey, I don't get anything. But once you have your money back and you put in a million dollars, you get your million dollars.

everything going forward is split 50 50. Most people are like, oh yeah, that seems fair. - Would you ever consider saying I'll give you 8% on your money for five years and then everything after that because the time value of money, would you, because if you're like, you wanna give me my money back in five or seven years, that sucks. Like I'd wanna be guaranteed something, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's so many ways you can spend it. You can definitely spend it that way. You can put, you can put numbers on it. You can do, yeah. What we do is waterfalls. Hey, after certain amounts, we get more. There is after a certain number of years, it changes. But yeah, one of the, one of the smartest real estate investors I know, a guy named Ken McElroy is down in the Phoenix area, but Ken does a lot more. He, he, he advised me, we don't have to lunch for you a year and a half ago. And he was like, Brandon, you just got to keep it simple. He's like, people don't need complicated. Just keep it simple. Give them half.

He's like, give them 100% of everything until they get their money back and then give them half. And everyone's happy with that. And you'll make more money on the back end, even though it's simple. So using that formula for your example, you go and make whatever that was, $500 million. Now potentially you're keeping $250 million. Or they get their $100 million back and then you're splitting the rest.

It's still a great return for them. No, I like that better. I got to meet this Ken McElroy. I love – Yeah, happy to make that intro. I failed at – and I was just talking to my podcast team is when I get a podcast like someone like you,

You probably know 10 people I need to talk to that do just as well as you, that you are really entertained. I had Robert Cedini in here the other day. He's given, he's got a few to give me. I mean, there are podcasts. I'm making a new rule for the podcast that we're going to have a small committee of three or four people. And if they listen to it and don't feel like it was fire, it's not making the airwaves because we've got too many great listeners. Now they want to be entertained. They want to be, they want the knowledge. They want the motivation.

And that's my number one thing is I don't want to put something on there that I wouldn't be very, very like, like if I listened to it, I'd want to be entertained, not even entertained. Like I'm not Joe Rogan. I want to be educational. Yeah. I want to know that my life has improved. Yeah. Like I'm wealthier, healthier or something. And last year you, you raised 300 million, which is nuts. What kind of messages are you putting on social media to make people go? Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm in.

Yeah. You know, it started organic. So it started, I just like throw it on my Instagram story. Hey everyone, I got a deal. Now I will admit it's gotten way harder to raise money right now than it's ever been before. Well, you can get 5% in a savings account. People are way less likely to go and invest in a real estate deal. Cause they're like, well,

I like my 5% guaranteed from the FDIC. You know, like it's really, it's a lot harder right now. It's 10 times harder now than it was last year or the year before. So in the past, I would just throw a thing on my Instagram story. Hey, I'm raising money. And within 24 hours, we'd have $30 million committed. It was, it was wonderful and wild. And a lot of that also, we had an email list. You know, we build an email list up. We got a hundred thousand accredited investors on our email list. So people who have said that they're wealthy enough to invest in these kinds of deals, uh,

So you send out an email to a hundred thousand people and you know, a thousand people raise their hand. Yeah, I can put in a hundred grand. So a lot of it is just internet, basic internet marketing today though. We have to do a lot more, you know, cause we've, I don't think I've tapped out, but I probably largely tapped out my email lists. Like they, if they're going to invest, they've already invested with me and they've probably invested all their money. And these aren't short-term deals. These are five to 10 year holds. So it's not like they got their money back already. It's only been a few years.

So I've had to expand my audience. And through that, we've done a lot of paid ads. We've spent about a million a year on paid ads right now. So we'll put out ads on, you know, sometimes it's me walking through the property going, Hey everyone, I'm Brandon Turner, author of the book on rental property investing. Maybe you've read it, sold a million copies and I'm buying this property, you know, so establish some credibility. I know what I'm doing. I got a billion dollars in real estate and I'm buying this property and I'm looking for some help to take it down. If you want to be a partner with me, you get the majority of the profits. I do all the work.

If that sounds good, book a call with our team and just have a conversation. No obligation. That's typically the kind of the angle we approach it with is like,

And I said earlier, I never really finished that thought. The reason I donate my salary away is not because I'm just like a good, a goody two shoes wanting to help people. I do want to help people, but it's the best sales pitch in the world. Like it's the bet. Like when I can tell my investors with a straight face and it's all, it's a hundred percent true that I don't make money unless you make money first. Like I'm not taking a salary. There's no, some side gig thing. There's no, there's no game here. I literally don't make money until you make money first. This has to work.

Or this is a giant waste of a decade of my life. Like people. I remember you saying that and I get it more, a lot more now. Yeah. Can I give you a piece of advice? Please. So Grant Cardone works with this guy named Brandon Dawson. Yeah. Yeah. I need a Brandon. And I've been on their stage. Smart guys. They're the ones that found Gary Braca. Yeah. They gave him 300 grand to own something like 70% of everything he puts out.

So you go find people that you know and you make them and you turn on your social media, your personal branding talent. Yeah. You get them co-authored. You get them books. You start a podcast with them. You get them the first 25 guests. But the social media team behind it. Now you're not. And you find people that are different than you to talk to different audiences. Yep. Now, guess what?

They got to be interesting, fun. They got to be funny and like get loud and just, you know, emotional. But you get five of those guys, those proteges, and you get the right contract, but they're excited. And then you just, you become a content factory. Yeah. And they're working underneath you.

Think about that because you've already exhausted your list. What if you had somebody like a Gen Z and you had this generation and this generation and somebody older but very thoughtful that's talking to this tribe? You know what I would go after? I'd go after somebody that's 60 years old, good looking, that's entertaining, that understands it, that people trust immediately, that's funny. And that brings you a whole new slew of investors. It's a great idea, man.

It's kind of the, yeah, I look at Cardone. I mean, everything Cardone does, I'm basically just copying at a worse way. You know, like he's just so much better at it than me. But we do the exact same game. Cardone, actually, the reason I didn't say this earlier, but the reason I ended up going into the syndication game that I did, because I interviewed Cardone on the BiggerPockets podcast, and it clicked. While I'm talking to him, I was like, oh, shoot.

This is awesome. This is what Cardone is doing. And so now that's what I'm doing. It's he's building a social media brand, an online brand to raise money, to finance massive apartment deals, commercial real estate deals in which he takes 20, 30% of it.

And therefore he doesn't need any of his own money. And he can buy billions of dollars of real estate using other people's money with almost, it's all non-recourse debt, which means they don't come after you if it goes bad. So there's almost no risk other than reputational risk to become a billionaire very quickly. This is before he was a billionaire. And I saw him do that and I was like, oh shit. I don't think he is a billionaire yet, but. Yeah, I think he says he's a billionaire only because I think the strength of his brand, he probably counts that as a billion dollar, you know, if you five X's, whatever. Yeah.

I love the idea of just all this stuff. I just love this podcast, man. You've given me so much good ideas. Like, are you in a self-publishing or do you get a publishing house?

You know, the five books I've written, we opened a publishing company. So it's kind of a hybrid, I guess. We actually went and built our own publishing company at BiggerPockets. So technically, it's a hybrid. If I do it again, I'll probably go traditional because I really want that New York Times bestseller title. It's just an ego thing. I fully admit that. There's no value to it other than my own ego. I would just love to be able to say I'm a New York Times bestselling author. And you're not going to get that if you hybrid it or you got to go through one of the major companies typically.

When building a personal brand, what are the top five, you know, whatever, three, five mistakes you made, like social media, videographers, content strategy, whatever you want to go with them. Just if someone wants to go out there and say they're bought in, I need to build a personal brand. What are some of the pitfalls?

Yeah, I think people obsess about quality too much, meaning like video quality, audio quality, whatever. I think that it's more important. I think reps are more important than quality. So if you spend a week to make one video and it looks really, really good, it just like it probably won't hit. It just it takes 100 videos for one of mine to hit well. And so I've just learned that volume is the game there. And so I just pump out massive volume. But it's also it's volume, but volume with the emphasis on like,

I learned this, you know, Mr. Beast talks about this, like 90% of their effort is in the title. And so on social media videos, like 90% of the effort should be in the first three seconds of the video. And so for a long time, I'd work, I'd work, I'd, I wouldn't even think about the first few seconds. I just make the video and then shockingly, it wouldn't do very well. And so now today we spend a lot more time focusing on the first few seconds. I made the mistake of making content when I felt like making content the same way I used to write when I wrote books. My first couple of books I wrote, I wrote when I felt like writing.

And then I learned, uh, there's a great quote. I think Stephen King is the original guy who said it. He said, I only write when inspiration strikes. Thankfully, inspiration strikes every morning at 9am in my desk. I got my desk. It's like, in other words, like you show up and do the work every single day and you, you're going to start hitting every single day or, you know, you're going to, you're going to get the work done. Um, so now like we have a system where it's like, I, I create whatever, 30 pieces of content a week. It just, I, every Wednesday for four hours, I'm creating content.

And that's just, it becomes a system. So content becoming a system is one of the most important things I can stress.

And then just steal. And what I mean by that is just rip off like R and D, like have your R and D department, your rip off and duplicate, right? Yeah. You just rip off and duplicate what other people are doing. You're like, Oh, that worked for Dan Martell. Like he did, or Dan did really good at this thing. Why did that do well? I'm just going to do not, I'm not going to copy word for word. It's his story, but I'm going to take what worked for Dan. I'm going to go do it to me. And then almost all the time it works. Here's a real clear example that I once made, I once saw a video on YouTube called how to analyze a rental property and

on the back of a napkin. And that video had 150,000 views, but the person that made it only had a few hundred subscribers. And I was like, oh, this hit. Obviously people on YouTube cared. So I made a video called How to Analyze a Rental Property. And I didn't want to copy it exactly. So I was using the four square method. I made up this four square box and I just kind of used it to teach this how to analyze a property. That video has like 4 million views today. I didn't... I just rip off and duplicate what somebody else did. So

you know rather than trying to just reinvent the wheel it's like why did this work for that person i'm going to put a spin on it but i'm going to do the same psychological hook to myself and uh tends to work and then just consistency man like it's 10 years like you said earlier it's like i'm an overnight success of 10 years of posting on instagram so i need we and you are getting together by the end of the year i i i got a lot of stuff that i wanted to talk about but i want to um

Would love it. I want to get you back to Coeur d'Alene and you're going to be at this event this weekend that I'll be at. Yeah, Ryan Pineda, great guy, another real estate guy. He's only giving me 30 minutes. I'm like, dude, but 30 minutes, I'm just going to bring fire. I think I have 35 or 40. It's tough. Yeah, it's so good. I get it. So Brandon, how can people find out more about you?

Then my Instagram beardy, so beardy beard with a Y at the end of it, beardy Brandon. And that's pretty much everything you'll find there. Um, yeah, there's, you know, the Lincoln bio has all my links to everything, but yeah, beardy Brandon. And I got a text message newsletter. I send out every week. You can get to their link in my bio on Instagram. Just, I send out whatever book I'm reading and what I'm learning from it every week. So just a simple newsletter via text kind of fun.

Yeah, listen, I'd like to get together somewhere in this – not in Hawaii if possible because it's such a pain in the butt. I'm actually coming. Are you still down in Arizona? Yeah. I'll be there for a few days in October for a mastermind. I think it's October.

And then I'll be up in Coeur d'Alene in August. I'll make sure Allison will reach out. Brandon, the way I close out here is I'm going to give you anything you want to close us out. All right.

I'm going to close it out this way. It's actually kind of a recap of what you talked about earlier, where there's only a few actions actually that make you successful in like those businesses. And I'll say in life, there's only a few actions that actually give you anything that you want, right? If you want to lose weight, there's only a few actions you actually have to do. It's like go to the gym, eat less calories. Like there's a list, right? So in other words, the line that I use all the time is you get the result of what you repeatedly do. If

If you like, if there's one thing you can take from me in my entire life, that's what I'm going to be preaching for the rest of my life. You get the results of what you repeatedly do. The problem is people are not consistent and persistent in those things. We all know how to lose weight and get a six pack, but most people don't have it. So if you can just figure out how to be consistent consistently,

And you define those actions, which you get by listening to podcasts and going to masterminds and going to events. Like you just learn from people who have done it. They tell you the actions. Tommy will tell you everything you need to do to grow your home service business. So like you don't need to read 500 books. You know the actions. Figure out a way to be consistent and persistent and you can win in anything. And that's your marriage, your faith, your parenting, your wealth, any of it. It's all the same. Figure out the three, four, five, 10 things you got to do.

track them, get some accountability, whatever you got to do and get it done. That's it. That's all success is.

I love it, Brandon. Listen, I appreciate you doing this while you're in Coeur d'Alene, brother. And I'm going to reach out to you, man. I really appreciate you having me out in Hawaii and doing this podcast. I think you're entertaining, smart. You're a great dad, a great husband to your wife. You're living the dream that most people envy and you're still giving back. So I appreciate it. No, thanks, man. Appreciate you. Let's get together soon.

We will. I'll make it. I will for sure. You got my brain spinning. So anybody that listens, no, I'm a man of action. I'm going to do like, I'm going to get the answers I'm out to seek. So it's going to be fun. Love it. Love it. Thank you.

All right, Brandoni. Hey there, thanks for tuning into the podcast today. Before I let you go, I want to let everybody know that Elevate is out and ready to buy. I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states. The insights in this book are powerful and can be applied to any business or organization. It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high-performing team like over here at A1 Garage Door Service.

So if you want to learn the secrets that helped me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper to a group of 700 plus employees rowing in the same direction, head over to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast and grab a copy of the book. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.