Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.
Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. This is episode 10, Wild Country. In this episode, we're going to be answering a bunch of questions we've received over social media. We are also going to be going deeper into some subjects we've only touched on and talking about some stories we haven't been able to tell.
I'm Courtney Armstrong. I work at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Sheen. Just as a legal reminder, Angela, Billy, Jake, and George Wagner were charged with aggravated murder. Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Jo Newcomb, and Billy Wagner's mother, Frederica, were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Newcomb was also charged with forgery. All six of them pled not guilty, and our justice system presumes innocence until guilt is proven.
Allie from Ormond Beach, Florida, asked us about the drugs and how they relate to the case and if there's anything else in the Pikedon area that pertains to drugs that we should know. So one of the big theories behind the murders we explored was drugs and the fact that the rodents did have a pretty large marijuana grow operation on their property. But it's not just specific to the rodent or even specific to Pikedon alone.
The immediate area is kind of a hotbed that's been affected by drugs in myriad ways. For starters, there's not a ton of jobs and
that has really taken a toll on the town and just generally speaking, Ohio. And the southern part of the state has been devastated by drug abuse, mostly prescription painkillers and heroin. In Pike County, the drug overdose mortality rate from 2014 to 2018 was more than 71 deaths per 100,000 population. The rate for the rest of the country was 27 deaths per 100,000. That's nearly three times the mortality rate of the rest of the country. ♪
A lot of these drugs come in from Portsmouth. Portsmouth, Ohio, is the neighboring town to Piketon, so about a 15-minute drive. I spoke to investigative reporter James Pilcher, who did an incredibly deep dive into Portsmouth, into the larger picture of what's happening in southeastern Ohio. Portsmouth, which is in the next county over on the river, south of Pike County and Piketon, is a very large area.
is known as ground zero for the pill mill epidemic. That's where pill mills and the opioid epidemic is known to have had a major hotspot way early on in the late 1990s, early 2000s when OxyContin first hit the market.
And tell me what a pill mill is. A pill mill is where a doctor who, for whatever reason, isn't there to see clients, somebody just shows up and he just hands them a prescription for money. And then they get the prescription there. And then right next door is a pharmacy. And then they just put it in. And then those people get the pills.
Because it's legal in that state, they might drive them home to Florida and then sell them for 10 times the price or trade them or whatever. But it was unregulated in Ohio at the time. And Kentucky was bad, too. Kentucky had the same issues. So right there, Portsmouth's right there on the Ohio River bordering Kentucky. So you had both sides of the river.
So there were cars lined up from Florida and West Virginia and Georgia up and down all over town for a decade. And it just ravaged the city, which had already been decimated by, you know, the pullout of industrialization. And so all of that kind of flooded in. You have all of these people.
you know, an economically depressed area, all of a sudden addiction becomes a major, major issue. People are driving from all over the country because it's easy to get the pills there. And then, of course, there's also the people who get into kind of the illicit activities to make money, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. A cottage industry of crime and drug-associated crime kind of sprung up and, you know, started to do my own reporting on it.
So one of our editors worked as the managing editor of the Portsmouth Daily Times, which is the daily newspaper there, in the early 2010s.
And so he was very familiar with the rumors that had been circulating around about Michael Moran. Moran had already been a city councilman, but he wasn't on city council anymore. But he was still well-known within the legal circles and chamber of commerce, and he did some pro bono work about legal defense. But he always seemed to have a pretty girl in his arms.
In December of 2018, a now former reporter with that newspaper put out on Facebook that
segments of a federal affidavit from the Drug Enforcement Administration, which basically laid bare and put out for public viewing that the federal law enforcement was investigating the very same rumors that have been following Moran around for years, that he was running girls and running drugs, and that this was who he was.
It's important to note that Michael Moran has not been arrested or charged with any crimes. Also, that Moran has categorically denied all of this. My editor at the time, and I was working as an investigative reporter at the Cincinnati Inquirer, said, would James be interested in taking a look at this? And I'll be honest, I thought, I didn't think it was real at first. I thought there was no way that this is as bad as they say it is and whatever. So I took a drive out there. They partnered me with a woman photographer who,
We went out there a couple of times, and I'll never forget it. We were doing some B-roll shots in front of a pseudo-abandoned shoe factory with graffiti about hookers and things like that. And a guy comes running up and says, what are you doing? And I told him, and I said, by the way, have you ever heard of Michael Moran? He says, oh, yeah, that guy runs women.
So this was not a secret in Portsmouth. Everybody knew the rumors and had known somebody that knew somebody that had worked for him. It was going on. That he was running women all over the country. He was promising women drugs for sex. He had relationships with judges and with members of law enforcement, all of it. So, you know, all of this is in a federal document. We're talking about, it's a human trafficking, right?
Yes. So, you know, some people, and this is an interesting distinction, some people will say, oh, well, these women knew what they were doing. They were just trying to make money. Well, if you talk to the experts, it went one step beyond that. It went into trafficking because Moran was holding over them, A, the fact that they were drug addicts, and he would withhold their money or withhold their wherewithal to get drugs, which under federal statute and Ohio statute is a form of trafficking.
B, he was attentively promising more lenient sentences because he had friends in the legal system.
I'd like to point out here that we reached out to Michael Moran as well as the prosecutors involved. Neither side got back to us with comment. So I talked to some folks, but getting those first initial people to talk, that was their big fear. These women just weren't afraid to go to jail. They were afraid for their lives. And the reason they were afraid for their lives is the name of one woman, and that's Megan Lancaster. Megan was a known prostitute in the late 2000s in Seattle County.
If you talk to her sister-in-law and you talk to other people who knew her, she worked for Mike Moran. Megan got hooked on drugs early on in high school, shortly after high school. If you talk to her sister-in-law, who has led the charge, she started partying later in high school and then out of high school. And that led her into, according to our sources, into the circle of Moran.
So Moran would hire her out for bachelor parties. And, you know, Katie Lancaster, her sister-in-law, even tells the story about her running into Megan wearing Christmas lingerie in a Walmart, picking something up on her way to a Christmas party where she was the entertainment for a bunch of Moran's friends. And she mysteriously disappeared. So we can't even say she was murdered.
Her car was found with blood on it. The door was left wide open, half parked in a local fast food joint there in downtown Portsmouth. And they've not found hide nor hair of her. And I can tell you, there are a lot of places in Scioto County where you can hide a body.
It's full of hollers and dips and forests and it's wild country. It really is wild country. The glaciers came through and cut a bunch of stuff and it's beautiful, but it's also wild country.
And a slew of women went missing or got killed that were addicted prostitutes, sex workers up in Ross County in Chillicothe, which is two counties to the north. Since 2010, more than a dozen women have either been killed or gone missing in Ross County, which is the county north of Pike County, which is probably an hour, 45 minutes north of Piketon.
in Chillicothe. So Megan, a lot of people theorized that Megan might have been wrapped up in something that got those women killed. But there's a lot of thought and there's a lot of theory or rumor that no, that was separate from what happened to her and what happened to her points back to possibly Michael Moran. That he would want to silence her for some reason. Yeah, these are powerful men taking advantage of addicted women
And so how would you like Michael Moran in tying this back to the Roden case, Michael Moran and the situation in Portsmouth, I think just speaks to this community, which I think includes Piked in as people.
These men in power are kind of doing what they want. And when you look at Sheriff Reeder, who handled the investigation for the Roden murder, he was also doing what he wanted. Now he's indicted on all these charges of theft from the county. Yeah. And so, you know, you can... The parallel, if you're wanting to make a parallel to the Roden case, is absolutely. Either A, you had ineffectual or corrupt or both law enforcement.
Right. You had a community or a culture of lawlessness that has descended upon many places in rural America. I will also say there's a major issue in small town America with the quality and quantity of law enforcement that happens there and the lack of accountability because nobody's watching.
You might be wondering how the crimes in Portsmouth fit into the Roden family case. While we probably know that Michael Moran and what's happening in Portsmouth is not directly related to the Roden murders, it does speak to the distrust and lack of accountability in law enforcement. It's this idea that all these men in power, from judges to attorneys, are involved in these crimes and their cover-ups. It raises a pretty unnerving question: who do you trust if you can't trust elected officials and law enforcement?
Furthermore, this influx of drugs and lack of accountability from law enforcement and the haphazard way Pikedon authorities tried to recover some seemingly very important evidence is basically exactly what reporter James Pilcher outlined so well in his work. Yeah, it seems really systemic in the area and specifically to Pikedon. And that impacts everything from the top down. Let's stop here for a quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment.
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.
From unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal. This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me.
Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm John Walzak.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.
But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat.
It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Michael Ann from Hoboken, New Jersey asked if there were any other personal stories we'd heard from people along the way that hadn't made it into the podcast. And here are a few that stand out to us. The relationship between Frederica Wagner and Angela Wagner, her daughter-in-law, has been the basis of a lot of conversation. That it was a troubled relationship and that Angela and her husband were vicious fighters. And that they were
And we even have heard from a very close source that Angela would actually have to put a little sedative in Billy Wagner's shakes every day because that would lower his temper. And that's how she would survive the day. It just paints a picture whether this is true or not. Here, Angela enters the Wagner family. She's feuding with her now mother-in-law, the matriarch of the family, Frederica. Her husband, I don't know how tall he actually is, but he's a tall man.
presence of a man and you know allegedly hot tempered so Angela is trying to survive this new dynamic homeschooling her boys and
sedating her husband and feuding with her mother-in-law, it just paints a very complicated picture. It does. And because I can be pedantic of allegedly drugging her husband. Allegedly. But other stuff we did here, because I spoke to the same person who was a family member. It was someone who was a family member. This is apparently a firsthand account. Correct. Correct.
And part of that, which I thought also painted such an interesting picture, was, like you said, the Wagners were known fairly widely to have get into it with the fights. And what this source said to us was that she was at the family home, at the Wagner family home, and she commented that Angela had very many decorative baskets all over. And she said those are very beautiful baskets.
And Angela allegedly said, well, every time we get into a fight and Billy needs to apologize, he buys me another basket because I like him. And so just picturing this house filled with decorative baskets, each one emblematic of an argument. Just an interesting picture. Here's a rich question, and it comes from Erin from Malvern, New York. And she asks,
How does Sheriff Reeder play into the investigations and how might he play into the upcoming court trials? He complicates this. I mean, he's been accused of many things in court documents filed just last month. They allege Reeder of misappropriating about $15,000 in seized funds and borrowing $6,000 from employees, which can be seen as coercion.
The records also accuse him of circumventing rules at auctions to improperly get impounded vehicles for his family, so to his benefit. Additionally, the court alleges that Reeder on June 2017 seized $7,000 that prosecutors call, quote, possible proceeds of drug trafficking. So these are charges that have gone for several years.
And there's even new allegations that charge him in engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity, which is a first-degree felony. And prosecutors have long used the charge as a way to attack organized crime figures and major drug dealers by seeking long prison sentences.
So the fact that they're using this against a sheriff is interesting strategy. You know, the issue is now that his character is being called into question. And according to sources we've talked to, the criminal justice experts agree that if Reeder is found of any wrongdoing, it could pose obstacles for the prosecution in the trials against the Wagners. You know, Reeder was the front man of making everybody feel at ease that the investigation was being handled. But frankly...
Yeah, I mean, in theory, you could look at every single case Sheriff Reeder took the lead on and wonder what he was doing behind the scenes in order to make an arrest, which would include the rodent investigation.
On the other side of that, though, you know, what experts are saying is that the prosecution might argue to the judge on the case that Reeder's criminal history isn't relevant to the Wagner trials and thus shouldn't be heard by a jury. And they'll do that by downplaying his role in the investigation. And if that becomes the case, then it won't necessarily be a death blow to the state's case.
Another expert was quoted as saying in the press, officers are human beings like everybody else. And so sometimes juries can weigh in on that and decide what kind of credence they want to give to his behavior. Sheriff Reeder also potentially jeopardized the investigation by having the Rodin's cars and mobile homes moved off site, which attorney Mike Allen and investigative reporter Jody Barr talked about in episode five. So Sheriff Reeder's involvement is far reaching and it has the potential to
to effect in multiple ways, not only during the investigation, but moving forward with the trials. Yeah, there was something else early on in the investigation that happened that really did cause a stir, and that's the rodent autopsy reports. And for some reason, these were held up and being released to the media outlets
which is something that happens occasionally in criminal cases, but it garnered a lot of attention specifically with the Rodin case. Probably the reason why is oftentimes autopsies are not released to the public because there might be a tell or something very significant in those autopsy reports. For example, this is just top of head, not related to the
Wagner or Roden case at all, if somebody had a certain tattoo marking or had been cut in a certain way that only the perpetrator slash killer would know, then authorities don't want that information to be wildly known because it's something that would be helpful to know if there was a confession, for example. So if somebody confessed, they would know that information. So that is not entirely uncommon.
Although in this case, it seems that was not the reason why. Yeah, it's speculated that it's not the reason why. And this is this went actually all the way up to the Ohio Supreme Court. Two outlets, the Columbus Dispatch and the Cincinnati Inquirer, sued the state for the right to the autopsies.
The suit was filed against the Pike County Coroner David Kessler and that came after the dispatch was denied three separate times officially asking for the final autopsy reports. And what the dispatch's claim was was that the final autopsy reports are of great public interest and quote significant value to the dispatch and our news gathering activities.
The authorities really were apprehensive to release the autopsy information, arguing that the release could hinder the investigation. I wonder, just to harp on this a little longer, what was Pike County really trying to protect three times, seems like a lot of times, to continue to fight the release of this? And now that we know what they say, what in there was so damning to the investigation community?
You know, it just seems like a lot. Well, I actually spoke with attorney Jack Grenier, and he was one of the lawyers who filed the suit on behalf of the dispatch, and he had some really compelling thoughts. You have to kind of wonder, in light of the trouble that the sheriff ultimately got into, what was motivating the desire to keep things kind of quiet. Because this is a pretty good example of, in my view,
law enforcement overreacting and I say that kind of cautiously because You know it say it was multiple murders in a gruesome situation but I think the idea of You know, you just have to withhold as much information as you possibly can from the public and even maybe more
more information than you're allowed to withhold is to me an overreaction. And I think we saw that in this case, you know, that somehow, you know, if any piece of information got out there, it would somehow derail the whole investigation. I just don't buy into that.
The Inquirer really argued that it was in the public's best interest to know what the autopsy said. And to review, I mean, what we learned from the autopsies is pretty important in terms of what happened to the rodents. We learned how many times they were shot, where they were shot, which really did speak to how personal the crimes were. Some of these family members were shot multiple times in the face with a shotgun. And so if this was a drug cartel hit, you know, it wasn't
once and quick, it was personal and it was an overkill, which is what we learned from the autopsies. Once these autopsies would be released, here we go again, more questions with few answers. And sure enough, that's exactly what happened. Thankfully, we have this information and we could actually really look at these autopsy reports in great detail. And I can speak for myself saying it was really...
and twisted when you really do see just how much, to your point, Jeff, of an overkill this really was. Yeah, it made me think, like, what releasing this autopsy would do to the town of Piketon. And in speaking to a fair amount of the residents and just the feeling of uncertainty, I don't know how it would, if it was a good thing or a bad thing, because the people in Piketon were thinking it was a drug cartel who did this prior to the autopsy release. And...
That created a sense of fear. But then I think after the autopsies were released, people started circling in on the Wagners and really thinking they did it, which created a whole other set of problems in terms of this kind of small town justice that the Wagners faced, whether they deserve it or not, creates a whole new problem for the sheriff's office. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment.
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.
From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...
This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Come on, Paul.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.
But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to.
Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
So we were talking about the informant, which we've covered in the past, but I know there's been some other questions out there. Yeah, so Woody from Comac, New York, asked us on social media about the likelihood that the informant is in fact one of the Wagner Four. I'm obsessed with understanding more about the informant personally. So you definitely think it must be a family member who turned? Must is a strong statement. I think the likelihood, I think it seems likely only because...
If this family allegedly did commit this careful, careful planned out murders that they spent months planning, why would they then be so careless and have someone else involved enough with the information that they could turn state's evidence? So to me, it says that if they kept it all within the family, then necessarily it would have to be someone in the family. It's unknowable at this point, but that's what makes sense to me. Is it possible that it's Rita? Yeah.
I mean, it's possible that it's any of them. Assuming it's one of the four. Let's just play this out for a second. If Courtney, if you're correct, and it's one of the four of the Wagners that are the accused, to me, if one of them was going to fold, George, the eldest son, seems the most likely. And for that reason,
I say simply because he had the least amount of skin in the game. If he wasn't fighting for his niece solely, you know, he wasn't, you know, maybe supercharged by love the way Jake was. He wasn't supercharged about protecting his children the way Angela maybe was about her son Jake and her granddaughter. We know the dads potentially had some sort of a confrontation leading up that could be, you know, charged by emotion. But that said, he turns...
Now, he's the one asking for solitary confinement and a Bible. The fact that they were trying to get George Wagner off on bail very recently, that would speak to this as well. That A, he's the informant. B, just through the basic ways that you would be released from prison on bail, they made that attempt. It was unsuccessful on the behalf of the defense, but that is interesting strategy.
By the way, how shocking would this be if George Wagner, the eldest son, had to actually appear in court and testify against his mother and his father and his younger brother, Jake? That would be shocking. So while it is all speculation, it is all possible. And several reputable sources have said it's not the most unlikely thing.
Just as a legal reminder, Angela, Billy, Jake, and George Wagner were charged with aggravated murder. Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Jo Newcomb, and Billy Wagner's mother, Frederica, were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Newcomb was also charged with forgery. All six of them pled not guilty, and our justice system presumes innocence until guilt is proven.
Jody Barr, who we heard from throughout the course of this podcast, has summed up pretty well how the three of us feel about this case. So, I mean, this is a case that I think about it, I'm pretty sure every day. And, you know, again, that's why I'm very eager to hear from, you know, I just want to see this trial. I want to know.
more about what happened here and if they really do have the right people. Sounds like they do. I mean, these indictments are very lengthy, very detailed. But that's only one side of this. I want to hear from the Wagners and see if they have an explanation because at the end of the day, when this happens,
the last trial is held and the last jury, if it gets to that point, you know, I would hope that the Rodin family can walk out of that courtroom and know for sure that the people who did this are the people who go to prison for it. I can't think of a better way to hand down justice. We've talked about this a lot and people ask us, you know, why we work in crime investigations in general. And I think the truth is that
victims have a voice even after death. And for us, we really do want to share our deepest sympathy with the Rodin family. I think the point of this podcast is to really angle towards shining a light on the injustices that the Rodin family faced and help bring a sense of closure and answers to the surviving Rodin family. Well, I think also when the Wagners finally do have their day in court, our hope is that the Rodins finally see justice.
Pikedon Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Lidecker and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by executive producer Jared Astin. Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. The Pikedon Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh my God.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.
Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.