Episode 12- Bonus Episode: Crime & Media
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Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.

Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to Haunting, Purgatory's premiere podcast. I'm your host, Teresa. We'll be bringing you different ghost stories each week, straight from the person who experienced it firsthand. Some will be unsettling, some unnerving, some even downright terrifying. But all of them will be totally true.

Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Pikedon Massacre, Return to Pike County, Season 2 bonus episode, Crime and Media. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Jeff Shane and Stephanie Lidecker, CEO and founder of KT Studios and producer of the Pikedon Massacre. ♪

Over the course of the last decade, true crime has exploded as the go-to genre across media platforms. In telling the story of the Rodin family and their murders, we've often asked ourselves, why are we, as creators of this series, so interested in this story, and why are you, the listener, so fascinated by it? So we gathered a group of experts to explore these questions and ask ourselves, is it a crime to love true crime?

The True Crime Podcast audience is 75% women. That's kind of an astounding stat, right? Well, I think as women, we are more socialized to know that the world could be a dangerous and unsafe place. That's Dr. Heidi Horsley. She's a psychologist specializing in grief counseling and is co-founder of the Open to Hope Foundation. We're constantly looking at our backs, being very aware of our surroundings, not being, you know, in alleys at night. You know, we're very, very aware that we could be victimized.

So I think it's that. And I also think women are very social. We're very connected. We want to understand other people. I think we tend to be very people oriented and maybe and family oriented. I'm not saying men aren't, but oftentimes women are even more. So maybe that's part of it as well.

Like protecting our pack. It's an interesting thing because I hadn't realized the true crime audience was quite as skewed towards women as it is. And I'm certainly a watcher also. And I think it allows us to feel too. You know, we see something that's like love based or makes us laugh. You know, films get to make us feel things that maybe we don't necessarily want to feel. Jeff, as a man, what do you think about that?

It's definitely a different experience being a man. Like, I don't have to look over my shoulder in the same way. After a certain age, I think for most men, you're not prone to being a victim. And I can walk through a parking lot without fear, which I think is a privilege that I have not fully appreciated until working with Courtney and Steph on crime projects. So being aware of that privilege, I think, has been eye-opening. And I think

putting myself in your shoes and listening to a podcast, I would be like, oh yeah, that's a red flag. Like you could see how a toxic relationship between Jake and Hannah or however you describe it, what can you learn from that? It's way easy to spot things in other people's lives on our own too. So there is a real tool from that. We can look at anybody and say, oh, I see the red flag there. And is that bad from a psychological, even for listeners who are listening to this, driving on their way to work or doing whatever it is we do when we hear a podcast.

Is it because we are desperate to hear other people's bad stuff because our lives feel better? I don't think so. I think it's people are desperate to hear really extreme tales because it helps us categorize things in our own life and maybe look out for things differently because when you're in the thick of it, it's really hard to see out of trouble. You know, sometimes we don't spot it as cleanly in our own lives.

Journalist Chris Graves covered the rodent murders for the Cincinnati Inquirer. She was in Pike County just days after the rodents were murdered in 2016. Her reporting was important in giving a voice to the victims' families in the early days of the investigation. Chris gave us her frank assessment on the rise in true crime content. You know, this will sound really, really basic, but I think you start from a place, if this were me, how would I want to be treated?

We have to rise above the tiny story that just hurts people. You know, the showing up and jamming the microphone in somebody's face and how do you feel? And I mean, if I were going to be completely candid, I think constantly thinking, you know, is it information or is it entertainment? We have to figure out a way to move beyond that situation.

salacious entertainment, whatever. There are fascinating deep stories to be told. And Lord only knows this story has been

so many elements of storytelling, but there's a way in which you can tell it with, I hope, I hope, without taking advantage of people. You know, we did go to Pike County and, you know, to your point, knocked on doors without a microphone, without a camera for all the obvious reasons. And it is, it's hard on the heart. We do try to be thoughtful, knowing that that would be really difficult if it were my door that somebody was knocking on. But

But I don't know. I don't know what the answer is there. If nobody hears it, then also we're not doing our job either. You say entertainment. We have a standoff in that because I don't really see it as entertainment. I also think bigness is sometimes we're in the emotion business, right? It's almost like a shout from the rooftop of...

Hear this, see this, this happened. This is a timestamp on something. And what's the balance then of that? How do you balance being respectful of people's lives and also people want to know every detail of the story? How do you balance that in terms of making it respectful to what happened, but also allowing people to consume it and take it?

Yeah, that's a good question. I think you try to, you know, while using finding fact, I think you also try to approach people with compassion and empathy, focus on understanding.

the person's life, you know, be accurate. There's nothing worse than getting stuff wrong, especially with someone who doesn't have a voice anymore. Avoid gory details just because they're gory. Do they need to see that? Will it cause unnecessary harm to people? Will I re-victimize people? But the gory details, to some extent, is what differentiates a

one thing from another in the spirit of making sure that people are being emotionally charged and mad as hell. Is that wrong? It is extraordinarily a gory case. There were three children left alive at the scene in very hideous circumstances. Imagine a four-day-old being in her mother's arms while she's shot two times in the face, right? We know that is disgusting, but some of this is shocking. And if you don't feel shock, then you don't hear the story.

How much is too much in terms of sharing and oversharing the gory? So I think my point in saying that is being careful that we don't just...

report for lurid curiosity. Some of that is also making sure that they hold the power in the interview. And again, I'm not talking about politicians, but those who get thrust into this horror through no fault of their own, and they deserve that power and that voice. And I see myself just sort of as a conduit

you know, I'm an ear and I'm a conduit and I try to share a story hopefully in an empathetic, compassionate way. But your approach matters a lot. Chris, I just want to say something about approach because I completely agree with what you're saying. And the flip side of all of this is when I worked with the 9-11 families for 10 years, initially after the 9-11

the 9/11 events, the media descended on people and they did not show up knocking on doors. They hid in bushes. They were intrusive and invasive. They wanted to catch the families that I worked with in their most vulnerable positions. And it was extremely overwhelming for the families and it wasn't helpful in many cases, not in all cases, because there were people that were there for good reasons, but there were other people that just wanted to get the story and then leave New York.

We ought to be asking all the time, you know, what are we doing? Where are we at? I guess my challenge to all of us doing this work is to think about minimizing harm and what does that mean? And it doesn't, you know, I also want to be clear that that doesn't mean that sometimes when I'm interviewing people, I'm sure I'm causing some harm. I'm asking people to relive and tell me where they've gone and what they've experienced.

When I did the interview with Bobbie Jo and certainly went into fairly graphic detail about what she found. Now, again, I tell you, I didn't write everything. But I thought, you know, in that balance, and it's that constant balance all the time. How much is too much? What isn't enough? You know, I thought her description of bending over

the bodies, you know, of Frankie and Hannah Hazel to get the baby was compelling. But my point in saying that is I thought that scene said more than just the gory detail in my way of thinking like, okay, she comes upon this, you've got two people,

to her obviously, you know, shot multiple times. I mean, she didn't tell me that, but the way she described it sounded like that. But yet they leave the baby alive. Huh. Isn't that interesting? So that to me was, I mean, and again, I didn't put it in just because it's, you know, wow, that's a really interesting thing. And boy, I could be, you know, it is interesting, but I think it's interesting in what it says about the,

at the time what it said about the killers that you know they didn't kill everybody and what's up with that why would they do that so either the person killing him was absolutely 100 monster or that had to have been somebody who knew them who couldn't kill a child so what does that say

That is the story that I think, certainly for myself personally, really tipped me over. The sheer horror of putting yourself in Bobby Joe Manley's shoes, even if it's a stretch to be able to do so. I can't imagine anything more hideous, right? And of course, we put ourselves in that position very quickly and realized, wow, that is something that's really hard to come back from. And maybe had you not reported about it, I wouldn't personally be as mad as hell as I am about it, right? I mean, we wouldn't feel as hyper-connected to the victims anymore.

Certainly, if you're not a relative or you're not from the hometown of the exact same place, you know, you have a different perspective coming into it where you could step in and say, well, that doesn't really add up.

Why would a cartel hit equal babies alive and dogs alive? That doesn't really seem like the MO. But again, if you're super close to it, it's hard to see that potentially. And I would really applaud that as an example of something that makes people emotionally get attached to making sure that justice is served. What you're saying is so important. I mean, we need to get people to care enough to care. And the way you do that is to bring them together.

through these stories into that world, capturing the moment and bring listeners into that moment so they can kind of visualize and be there. And like you said, Stephanie, be angry as hell and you're creating awareness and you're building a platform for the story and in the long run, creating change. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh my God.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.

But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to.

Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?

Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives.

Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Reporter Anjanette Levy and forensics expert Joseph Morgan join the conversation. What compels you in terms of, you know, getting to the bottom of stories and telling stories that happen to people?

I've never been satisfied until I know every detail. And I think that I always want to know what happened and make sure that I know the true story of what happened. You know, so many times there are stories where you don't know what happened, you don't know the truth, or you feel like you know the truth, but not the whole truth.

And that was one of the things for me, and especially with this case, one of the things that was just so awful. You know, we cover awful things in this business. We don't go to work every day and get to do happy stories. Most of the time it's something sad or something serious. And I just think it's bad enough when one person is killed in a story, but to have eight people killed...

all in one night, eight people in one family to have one family wiped out with little kids, a baby, a newborn baby sleeping right next to her mother. That is sick. And I think that it was a different kind of case in that respect because people should be able to lay in their homes at night next to their children and

and not fear being shot in the head or killed or shot in any way. You know, it goes against every...

kind of human feeling I have as a human being that we should be treating each other with kindness and humanity. You know, I got into this business to tell true stories and to make a difference. So, you know, I always try to go the extra mile. And this case was, you know, just particularly horrifying. And you can't let your emotions like influence how you tell the story, but you have to bring some humanity to it.

Chris, why did you become a journalist and specifically in true crime? I like finding out information. I think I'm insatiably curious and I like to find out, you know, why things happen and how they happen. I'm a big why and how person and the thrill of finding out information. What can I do in a day?

I just started covering it, this world of knowledge that different pieces of people can figure out to me and they can piece it together and they can, and then there's justice, right? And then you use all of that for the, you know, seeking of justice and how the systems work is really interesting to me, how things work, how the court system works, why, what's going to happen, what do they need to prove is all, it's all part of the same sort of ingredients in the soup, I think.

Joseph, how did you get into this line of business? What made you grow up and say, I want to be a medical death examiner? For me, it was fascinating. You see it from the perspective of all the peripheral issues that come up, that you see what's left behind in their wake, the life that they live, what's in their chest of drawers at home, what's sitting behind.

beside the chair that daddy sat in all the time, a lazy boy in front of the TV. You know, the little table there where he kept his pipe or maybe what was mama hiding in the kitchen cabinets. Stuff that people don't see. And I think this goes back to this bigger issue. The reason I think that this is so compelling with all of these other cases

And it's dictated by geography. It's dictated by the personality of a place. Pipeton, Pike County, it is in the story, in the story of these lives lost, it is a character.

What is our obsession with true crime as those who follow it closely and dedicate our careers to it? What's up with that? We're storytellers. I mean, back from the beginning of time, right? I mean, in even caveman time, we were drawing pictographs to communicate. So we have a human desire to communicate.

communicate and they're compelling stories. Something bad happened and we want to find. I think we are seekers of truth or seekers of fact. How did this happen? That's why we rub our neck at car accidents. And truthfully, it's the classic good versus evil, right? Good and bad. I think that's what draws us to things. I mean, religious text. I mean, most novels, most, I mean, you know, there's a protagonist and an antagonist.

Also something I was reading too about why people love true crime is the adrenaline rush of it, that you get this kind of, your heart rate rises and you feel like what you feel like when you go on a roller coaster. No, I agree with you, Jeff. I think that listening to true crime, we're going on the trip. We're taking the trip with people. You know, we might be just watching it, but like you said, our heart races, we get anxious. I mean, you know, it takes us into those spaces and it does give us an adrenaline rush.

I come here through my own story and my own trauma. So, you know, I don't know other people's stories, but, you know, my brother and cousin died traumatically when the car they were driving at 17 years old blew up. And I was extremely traumatized by the way that they died, how they died, and took my own journey. I was in a very dark existential place and took my journey from the darkness into the light and

use what helped me to help other people.

You know, I worked here with firefighter families for 10 years after 9/11, the same families, watch them heal. And research shows that peer support is one of the main things that help people after traumatic losses. And, you know, like you said, listening to other people who have had traumatic losses and not only survived but thrived helps us and it also helps people, it normalizes people's experiences when they're going through traumatic loss.

to hear other people that have been there, even if the losses are different.

You know, I also think we're a little obsessed with death, right? It's like one of the few things that we all can agree on. We all are going to die at some point. And the circumstances by which we do is very unknowable for the most part. And listen, we know we're going to have there's always going to be life and there's always going to be death. And how we die in the circumstances is something that I have to assume is slightly intrinsic for all of us to be curious about. I agree with that.

I think that every single time somebody dies, you're staring at your own mortality. I think that's why death is so difficult. Like you said, this puts every time you read and hear about these kind of things like the Pipe to Massacres, you think about your own mortality, your own safety, your own death. You know, it just, you start to obsess and think about all these things. I think that's pretty normal. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Come on, Paul.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.

But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to.

Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?

Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If something tragic happened to you or your family, would you want a podcast or a documentary done about the story of your family's tragedy? Is that helpful? Does that move the needle?

I kind of thought about that before when people won't talk with us, the media. I show up on people's doorsteps and there are a lot of times people don't want to talk and that they have different reasons for that. And I understand that. But I always think to myself, gosh, if I lost a loved one, I would probably be doing anything I could to try to bring attention to the key, to figure out how it could be solved. So I don't understand how some of these families make it through. Yeah.

You know, I guess they say there's an old saying, whatever, you know, doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. I, you know, you see the will of some of these people and I just always admire their tenacity and their ability to live and move forward.

If I were the victim of a crime or a family member of mine was the victim of a crime, I would want something done that anything that could help bring some light to the case that would generate leads or generate anything that would lead to the truth being uncovered and somebody being held accountable.

I was always, in full transparency, thought, why would anyone ever partake in a crime documentary or podcast? And working in this podcast in particular, it made me realize that if people who didn't know the victim don't speak for them or speak about them, then we're just going to get the story wrong. It's impossible to know the intricacies of someone's life hearing it secondhand through an article or a YouTube video. So in doing that, I think being able to hear details about

Dana Roden being an incredible mother and a hard worker, like that's what paints the picture and makes you care. Court, what about you? So something from last week really stuck out. In the case of Curtis and Jennifer Burgett, Angie Montgomery has been tirelessly, tirelessly looking for resolution that has yet to come. And

One thing she said, and this was even in dealing with law enforcement, was, "Hey, guess what? The squeaky wheel, you know, gets attention and can reinvigorate an investigation. And you don't know if you're walking around in town and the person guilty of murder of your loved one is checking you out of the supermarket." So to be able to bring attention to what is paralyzing many families in unknown grief and just not knowing, I think that's really important.

I sort of feel strongly that if somebody has experienced something very traumatic and the rest of us are not made aware of it from a human perspective and that we are not forced to really care about it and get mad about it and make sure it doesn't continue to happen again, then maybe that's not okay either. We're all sort of connected by the stories we share.

Good and bad. And some of these being so wildly extreme. I would always say if something happened to me or my family, please, please do a podcast or a documentary or shout from the rooftops that, you know, we did this in our good times and that whoever did this to us would be brought to justice.

And then I'd pose the same thing to you, Joseph. A few years ago, I attended the first GrimeCon I'd ever been to as a guest of people that were presenting there. And I was on panels and all that sort of thing. And I didn't really know what to think about it. Because when I think about something that says con in it,

I always think about people dressing up like cartoon characters, you know, and living out these alternative universes, you know, that they kind of exist in their private lives and that sort of thing. So I didn't know what to expect. And I got there, you know, and as an old investigator, I'd had people, you know, that would approach me and

They'd call me up at night, you know, late night while I'd be there at my desk at the ME's office in Atlanta. And they'd say, I'm looking for my mama. She's been missing 10 years. I'd entertain the same people for years and years and listen to their stories. And they just want somebody to talk to. But this took on a different tenor for me when I was there. Something that kind of

punch me in the gut. These people were showing up and they weren't just true crown fans. They were flying all the way from places like Seattle. And these people would show up and they had files, papers. And they would walk up to us with tears in their eyes and they would say, "Please, can you help me? My sister was raped in Dallas, Texas in 1975. It killed my parents.

It's still unsolved. Please help me. And they're openly weeping. I found myself in that moment in time surrounded by people like this. And there's this great unknown and unseen mass of people out there that are not served.

And the reason they're not served is because right now, as we speak, people are dying somewhere right now or across the nation. And there are people that are in mourning. And can you imagine always being in mourning and never being able to cycle out of it? People, I hate the word closure. I hate that. I despise it because no one ever gets closure.

and a homicide. It doesn't happen. They just want answers. So, you know, for me personally, yeah, God forbid, you know, that anything would happen to me and mine, I'd say, yeah, let the hide come with the hair. You know, do it. I mean, if it's going to bring about information, not closure, closure is something that's abstract. If it brings about more information that's going to help people, yeah, I say let's do it.

The

The Pikedon Massacre, Return to Pike County, is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh my God.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.

Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to Haunting, Purgatory's premiere podcast. I'm your host, Teresa. We'll be bringing you different ghost stories each week, straight from the person who experienced it firsthand. Some will be unsettling, some unnerving, some even downright terrifying. But all of them will be totally true.

Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.