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RITA NEWCOMBE, FACTORY OWNER, ANGELA WAGNER, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGELA NEWCOMBE, ANGEL
that if you don't do this, they're going to hurt me. Can you imagine your daughter is basically begging you not to turn her in? And then you come to find out that she's essentially bringing you into a murder investigation and leaving you under the bus. You know, a lot of times in this case, it feels like they're doing more to convict Jake and Angela than they are George. Regarding custody of his son, what did he want you to do? Get custody.
This is The Python Massacre, Season 4, Episode 16, Relevancy. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane. We're picking up after last episode's testimony from Chris Newcomb, Angelo Wagner's half-brother and uncle to George and Jake Wagner.
On the stand now is Chris Newcomb's partner, Miranda Hughes. She opted out of video recording but allowed audio recording of her testimony. It's important to note that George Wagner IV has pleaded not guilty on all counts, as has his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming. Thank you, Your Honor. The state would call Ms. Miranda Hughes to the stand. Good morning. How are you? Nervous. We get that a lot from that chair.
Miranda opted out of being videotaped, but allowed her verbal testimony to be recorded. Miranda echoed much of Chris Newcomb's testimony about Jake and George Wagner's disconcerting dye job. Were there any conversations about that at that time, when you saw them with their hair dyed? Yes. And what was that? Well, that, why did they do it? And Jake said he wanted to look like, I think his name's Norman Reeds. Norman Reeds. Yeah. I told him he was far from that.
But both Jake and George had their hair dyed? Yes. Okay. And did you know who dyed their hair? Angela. And after the homicides, did that fact that they had dyed their hair cause you to think something? Yes. Okay. And what was that? Made me worry. Why? Because why would you change your appearance and then something like that happen? Randa also backed up Chris's claims about George's desire for a Glock pistol.
Was there ever a time where you were present for helping to obtain a .40-calibre Glock for George? Yes. Sorry. Okay. Well, I'm going to overrule the objection and let the answer stand. We do have four leading questions. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. He asked Chris...
If he knew of anybody that had a Glock, he had Chris said that he didn't know of anybody at the moment, but that he could look for him. And when Chris found one, I think George wanted it. So we met up with the guy. But George wanted us to go because Chris had been the one talking to him. Okay. And did you accompany Chris on that day? And do you remember where you met up with this individual? I don't know exactly where. I just know it was a park and ride.
Randa also made some revealing statements about how George and Jake asked her and Chris Newcomb to secure custody of their kids in case they went to prison. After the Wagners were charged in these offenses, did they want you and Chris to do certain things? Yes. Regarding custody of his son, what did he want you to do? Get custody. Get custody.
But once the Wagners were arrested, Chris and Randa abandoned their custody efforts.
Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the very first time I'm personally hearing that George and Angela and Jake wanted Chris and Randa to be the guardians of the children. And of course, you know, if you're getting arrested and going away for murder, you would want your close family member to have custody of your child. But, you know, at least one of the children, George's in this case, had a mom who could have raised him.
That being said, though, George had told Chris and Randa that he wanted them to have custody. And they were apparently pushing for that until they actually met Tabby and realized that she was not who George had made her out to be. She was actually a good mom and a nice person. And George's son had a nice life with her.
So they dropped in the efforts to get custody of the children after Jake, George, and Angela and Billy were finally arrested. And for whatever reason, the Wagners believed that they were the only people who could raise their children and the only people that should be raising their children. But it seems like ultimately Chris and Rand disagreed. And I still don't think we're getting the full explanation as to why that is, other than that the Wagners simply wanted to control these children. ♪
Forensic investigator Joseph Scott Morgan sheds light on the place of Randa Hughes' testimony in the trial. With Hughes, you know, she kind of had an insight into...
their world that not many other people had. I think you kind of get to peek under the covers a little bit with her. You got to see kind of some of the insights as it applied to custody issues and the kids. And that was the big thing, because that goes to motive, I think. And we have to understand that I think a lot of people are mistaken when they think about prosecution.
Prosecution does not have a proven motive. That's not what the purpose of this is. However, it does go to getting a feel for what the family dynamic was like of the familial environment. I think that that's very significant and, you know, as thrilled as we get about hearing people talk about forensics and getting down into the nuts and bolts of things, I don't think that it is as significant as, you know, being able to get an peek into this world
In his cross, defense attorney Richard Nash tried to pin the fascination with The Walking Dead on Jake. He was the one who modeled his killings after the show's lead character, not George, the man on trial. And there was some discussion, speaking of hair color,
Jake had told you that I think he wanted to look like Norman Reedus. Yes. And Norman Reedus, is he the main character in The Walking Dead? He's kind of one of the main characters of The Walking Dead, yes. All right.
And Jake had a fascination with Norman? Yes. Okay, I saw you really give me a positive response to that. And you've watched The Walking Dead, right? Yes, I have. And so your familiarity with the movie. Yes. How do you kill a zombie? They shoot him in the head.
The jury also heard about the tattoos that Billy, George, and Jake got after the murders. Jake got one of flaming pistols on his upper arms. Billy and George's were a bit more problematic. Again, Ann Jeanette. After the homicides, you know, about a month and a half later or so, June of 2017, he and Jake and George went and they got tattoos. Billy's tattoo is a scorpion with eight notches on it.
And the prosecution thinks that that holds some significance. We have eight victims in this case and a scorpion, which can be fatal, is on his right finger, which could be his trigger finger if he's right-handed. And he's got this tattoo signifying something that can be deadly.
A scorpion with eight abdominal segments, a skull biting down on an eight ball, eight rodents dead.
Some people see the correlation, others wonder why it's admissible.
It's kind of strange because we, I guess the judge is letting the jury look at this and see if it's relevant. I mean, it's up to the jury to determine whether or not the tattoos are relevant. I'm not sure, you know, I could see the scorpion being relevant, possibly the eight ball in the skeleton's mouth. I think we just have to wait to see how the testimony plays out. Joseph Morgan is more dubious. I would have said that years ago,
The tattoos may have carried more weight, I think. I'm recalling in my mind, you know, being, for instance, in the morgue, I remember a couple of cases where I had people who were legitimately
folks that had worked as assassins in prison they wound up dying when they finally get on the outside and they have the teardrop tattoos you know you always knew that when somebody that had committed a homicide you had the two-foot crosses on their hands that you know these little crosses with the little radiating lines that you know you can tell somebody's a drug dealer or an arms dealer or they're an assassin they used to tell these tales but you know
The problem is people use tattoos now to try to create an image for themselves. Maybe you could get a tattoo expert to pop up on stand and say, oh, yeah, based on the structure of this thing, this is generally associated with people that are involved in this type of behavior, particularly if you're talking about gangs and whatnot.
You know, you can say that all day long. I mean, I've seen some pretty horrific things, images of these tattoos that people walk around in public with. They don't make them a killer. It just means that they've got an interest in this interesting art that they're willing to put on their body and display to the rest of the world. But that doesn't make you a perpetrator and a homicide.
The jury also heard heart-stirring testimony from Rita Newcomb, Angela Wagner's mother, and Jake and George's grandmother. Newcomb declined video or audio recording of her testimony. Petite with dirty blonde hair, Newcomb is a devout Christian who wrestled with her daughter's actions after the murders. Stephanie and Jeff.
Rita was in tears when she testified about how she initially lied to investigators to protect her daughter and quote her grandbabies. But then she soon came clean because of her faith in God. And of course, once the Wagners became actual suspects.
Steph, what I find interesting is that Rita Newcomb falsely told agents with the Ohio BCI that she had signed these custody documents involving George and Jake's children as a notary public. Rita basically testified in court saying that Angela said to her, look, mom, if you don't admit this, they're going to really hurt me and possibly even kill me.
And that's a brutal spot to be in. Can you imagine? Your daughter is basically begging you not to turn her in. And then you come to find out that she's essentially bringing you into a murder investigation and leaving you under the bus. She continues to describe the worst days of her life were the eight days that she spent behind bars. Again, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan.
I think that Rita being in the midst of this just titanic storm, there's part of me, if you can, if anybody can feel kind of sorry for anybody that's been associated with these horrible deeds, I think that
You know, I would list probably more toward Rita Newcomb in this. You know, she's involved in this with her child. She's borne witness to everything Angela's ever been involved in. I think that most parents would try to do anything that they possibly could in order to help their child. I think early on that people assumed that this was a broad-ranging conspiracy.
And immediately they associated Rita with it, that she was part and parcel. They almost had her sitting at the kitchen table. Now, I just don't see that that was the case, you know, relative to these homicides. And if we are to believe that
that Angela is the controlling person, you know, this manipulative, you know, kind of Svengali-like character that, you know, has sway over the entire family and how things are going to be done. If Angela is that person, did Rita perceive her daughter as maybe potentially, you know, going to do harm to her or she would have somebody do harm to her? And that's what makes that all the more ominous. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
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Rita Newcomb spoke extensively about her family's legacy of abuse. Again, Law and Crime's Anjanette Levy. Rita Newcomb is somebody we've known about since the arrests were made in this case back in November of 2018. And Rita is Angela Wagner's mother. She claimed that Angela told her
That, you know, if you don't, if you don't do this, they're going to hurt me. We never got a clarification on who they are, but she said they will hurt me if you don't say you did this. She also talked about how, you know, she had been married to Angela's father, of course, Ed Carter, and he was abusive to both of them. I mean, physically abusive, physically.
And Angela had actually gone into the Air Force at 18. She wanted to get away from her dad and this whole thing. And we found out that Angela left the Air Force early, allegedly because she was sexually assaulted and it was never investigated or reported, according to Rita. I find it interesting given the fact that
the motive for these murders allegedly was protecting and this fear that the little girl might be molested. So it makes you wonder, is that where this concern about sexual assault or sexual abuse, where it originated, was with Angela's time in the Air Force? I guess we'll find out as the case progresses. But
She talked about not liking Billy Wagner. I would think that seeing a woman who's 70 plus sitting up there crying and reliving this and admitting to lying for her daughter, I would think the jury would take that very seriously. But again, this is George's trial, not Angela's trial. But still, it paints a picture. You know, it seems like Angela Wagner has just been painted as the ultimate villain here.
in this story, in this trial. I mean, nobody says anything nice about Angela Wagner in this case. The jury also heard from two BCI forensics experts. One was Special Agent Brian White, who searched the Wagners' property in June of 2017. He is now a lieutenant with the Madison County Sheriff's Office in Central Ohio. Special Prosecutor Andrew Wilson questioned him on the stand.
Thank you, Your Honor. In a nice loud voice, can you introduce yourself again to the jury? My name is Brian White. I'm a lieutenant with the Madison County Sheriff's Office. When you were out there searching that area of 260 Peterson Road,
June 14th, June 15th, 2017, did ultimately you find pieces of evidence that you collected and took into custody? Yes, we did. And June 14th, June 15th, during that search, did you also have Matt White out there with you who was from the lab? Yes, we did. And explain what his role was or what he did that day.
Whenever if we would find something that was firearms related through sifting whether that be a casing a bullet or whatever Matt would take a look at it, and then he would put it in He would basically separate them out and to different characteristics or calibers or whatever I'm gonna hand you what's been marked for dedication purposes by state's exhibit SS 5. Can you tell us what's in a state's exhibit SS 5?
That's a fire cartridge case, .223 caliber, collected June 14th and 15th, 2017, 260 Peterson Road. It's got my name on it and my initials. And again, is there a .223 firearm listed on HH2? Yes, there is.
The Wagners' 260 Peterson Road property, which was owned by Jake, is 13 miles from where the rodents were executed. It was at this location that White recovered .22 caliber shell casings that matched the ones found at the crime scene. The Wagners were in Alaska at this time. On the Peterson Road property, a second barn was mid-construction, possibly, the BCI suspected, to cover up evidence. Again, Antoinette.
In June of 2017, BCI, this was after the Wagners had moved to Alaska, went back to the Peterson Road property where the Wagners had lived. They had sold it in May of 2017, the month prior. And Brian White was like the lead crime scene agent on
on this case. And he said that they went back there with ground penetrating radar, just looking to see if there was anything buried underneath there, under the ground of evidentiary value. I mean, at this point in time, they were still looking for murder weapons. The lead BCI agent, Ryan Scheider, said there was a new barn that was being built and constructed on the Peterson Road property at the time of the homicides, really. I mean, part of the barn had been erected and
it was under construction at the time of the homicides and after the homicides. And so BCI had gotten the new owners to text and talk with Jake about this, which stimulated some conversation, if you would, about it. It got George to call Angela. They discussed it. And Angela was very concerned about which barn they were searching, you know, which barn she kept asking. So they were concerned about the property being searched and,
And George sounded like he was the one in charge. Like he was the go between, you know, asking Jake, you know, "Hey, Jake, which barn is it?" 'Cause Angela wanted to know which barn. So it sounded like George was very much the boss in that conversation at least. - BCI criminal intelligence analyst, Julia Eveslage also took the stand. She intercepted the Wagner's cell phone conversations and also monitored their social media activity.
The Wagners and the Rodens had volleyed Facebook blocks back and forth, revealing potential grudges. Focusing on Hannah Roden's Facebook, as previously mentioned, she was not currently friends with Jake Wagner. From prior posts or messaging, they were at one point friends, but they weren't at the time of the return. She had blocked George Wagner's profile, and Angela had blocked Hannah Roden's.
There was an assortment of relationships between Tabitha's profiles, as there were a number of them. But Hannah Roden and Tabitha's most recent account were friends at the time of the return. But in a world where people block each other routinely online, it's hard to know how much weight to give someone pressing a button on Facebook. And Jeanette.
I guess if there's some big feud going on and the families are warring with one another, of course you would have somebody blocked. Or maybe you just block somebody because you don't want them snooping on your Facebook. Or maybe you just don't want that person in your business. I don't know. I thought it was strange that George, who claimed Frankie was a good friend, or at least his attorneys have claimed that Frankie was a good friend, that he had Frankie blocked. He had Hannah Mae blocked.
You know, all these different people had each other blocked. Is it indicative of somebody carrying out a homicide? I guess it could be. But as far as like who did what or who planned and covered up, I mean, I'm not sure it's that relevant. Julia Eveslage also played the court a fascinating intercept of George Wagner on the family's journey to Alaska.
I thought Julia Eveslage's testimony was interesting when we got to hear George Wagner. You know, it was really the first time we, or one of the first times, I should say, that we heard his voice and we heard that he can become quite agitated. It was after the family had been stopped at the border in Montana and interrogated. And he was putting his son in the car and
And he was telling his little boy, who was a toddler at this time, those people back there that fed you and played with you, they're liars. They're bad people. They want to kill us.
And the little boy was saying, no, no, no, you know, and things like that. And I'm just thinking to myself as I'm listening to this, this is a grown man talking to his child who's a toddler and telling this child that the people they just saw at the border were trying to kill them. And I just found that to be so strange and unbelievable. I couldn't believe that someone would talk to a toddler like that.
We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. MITRE's mission is to solve problems for a safer world. If you have a passion for applied cybersecurity with skills in infrastructure threat intelligence, deterrence technologies, advisal threat emulation, or intelligence analysis, explore the many challenging and fulfilling career opportunities at MITRE.org slash careers. That's M-I-T-R-E dot org slash careers.
As the round of testimony wrapped up, some observers thought there was still an underwhelming amount of evidence against George Wagner.
You know, a lot of times in this case, it feels like they're doing more to convict Jake and Angela than they are George. Now, granted, George is not the main player in this case. The jury really just has to determine whether there's enough evidence to show that George was part of a conspiracy to commit and cover up murders, eight murders. So that's really what they have to prove. Yeah, we all want to know, like, the details, right?
The only thing I can see is that they somehow had it in their minds and it almost seems like a circular thing that they were all feeding off each other thinking they were the only ones who could raise these kids in the way they wanted them raised, whatever way that was. I mean, it just sounds like it was a very insular life with a lot of yelling too. More on that next time.
For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at KT underscore studios. The Pikedon Masker is produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Weider, Andrew Arnau, Gabriel Castillo, and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Twa. Music by Jared Aston. The Pikedon Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome our Fife County Dogwood Festival Queen. Lord, I just thank you for bringing us all together as a community. I hate my present all dead. There's blood all over the house. Who could have killed eight family members in one night?
I lost my best friend and I will never be the same because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. The word that comes to mind is overkill. Who was the mastermind? I'm telling you, if they frame us, I'm not sitting in prison. One thing I learned...
The smaller the town, the bigger the secrets. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders, A Family Massacre, premiering on NBCUniversal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend, November 24th and November 25th. Please check your local listings, and our hearts are with the Rodens and the Gilley families.
MITRE's mission is to solve problems for a safer world. If you have a passion for applied cybersecurity with skills in infrastructure threat intelligence, deterrence technologies, advisal threat emulation, or intelligence analysis, explore the many challenging and fulfilling career opportunities at MITRE.org slash careers. That's M-I-T-R-E dot org slash careers.