The Alaska Wife and The Father Figure
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Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.

Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends. I didn't know we were going to go there on this. People.

people that I admire. When we say listen to your body, really tune in to what's going on. Authors of books that have changed my life. Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right? Never forget, it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one. Listen to A Really Good Cry with Radhi Devlukia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm also Lacey Lamar. Just kidding. I'm Amber Revin. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. This season, we make new friends, deep dive into my steamy DMs,

answer your listener questions and more. The more is punch each other. Listen to the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen, okay? Or Lacey gets it. Do it.

I've been receiving a lot of questions lately since God told me to put my account public. I had been hiding specifically from all of the issues that were surrounding my life in Ohio. And the most common question I keep being asked is, did you know Jake Wagner was a murderer before you married him? This is the Pikedon Massacre, a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio.

Season 3, Episode 3, The Alaska Wife and the Father Figure. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane. Elizabeth Wagner, whose voice we just heard taken from one of her public social media posts, has been something of an elusive figure in this case. After the massacre, we know the Wagner family liquidated all their assets and moved from Pike County to Alaska to start a new life.

For two years, Father Billy Wagner, Mother Angela Wagner, eldest son George, and youngest son Jake, along with the daughter he shared with victim Hannah Mae Roden, lived a quiet and unremarkable life. They attended a local church regularly, and it was through the church that admitted murderer, youngest son Jake Wagner, met his soon-to-be young wife, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth, often referred to as Beth, is a wide-eyed, slim woman in her 20s with light blonde hair and blue eyes. She paints and was a Sunday school teacher. Elizabeth would become the third young woman to step into the Wagner's web. Here's special prosecutor Angie Kanepa speaking recently to Judge Deering and the defense about the significance of Elizabeth Wagner and her whereabouts. It appears she's been in hiding.

Judge, we would like to interview Beth, who is Jake's ex-wife, and we have not been provided her address. She's a key state's witness, we believe, and we have tried to locate her.

The state says people are in danger, but they have not filed anything to preserve or present that issue. Elizabeth Wagner basically fled for her life when she left the Wagner home. I personally wrote a letter to the Social Security Administration to get her social security number changed so that she could change her identity and not be at risk of potential harm. Understandably so. The homicides had been committed by then, and she was very much afraid for her life. So...

That is the reason. It is because of potential danger to this witness. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Elizabeth serves as a very big piece to this puzzle. She's appeared on several lists as a potential witness. It also speaks to the fact that there is a pattern here. We were able to track down Elizabeth on social media, and because she's made her posts public, we're able to play you some clips from those.

The most common questions I keep being asked is, did you know Jake Wagner was a murderer before you married him? And the answer is not really, because he came to our church in Alaska, which was pastored by Caleb Sinoreski at the time, who was a very young preacher. He had vouched for the Wagner family and told the congregation that it was his understanding that they had been

troubled by news reporters, but that it had been a slander and that the things were not true. So that being the case, I was not exactly set up, but in a way encouraged to believe that Jake Wagner was innocent.

So I got to know him. I spent a fair amount of time with him and his family, saw him every week at church for several months, spent a fair amount of time with his daughter. And it just came to be that

He and his family needed to move south from Alaska back to the lower 48. I did not know the reasons for this at the time. In retrospect, I have some personal opinions as to why that may have been. But the main thing I just wanted to communicate to people is that no, I was not aware that Jake Wagner was involved so intimately with these horrible, horrible killings.

and that if I had known, there's no way in a million years that I ever would have married him. I was very, very, very upset after all of these things went south so quickly. I mean, I'd only just gotten married and then I find out that my husband is not only not who I thought he was, but literally a person's worst nightmare.

So I had to move three times since then, and I am not allowed to speak publicly or in private about the murders, or I would face personal consequences from the legal system of Ohio. This was a woman who was by all accounts fearing for her life. Can you imagine being a young girl living in Alaska? You meet a guy through your pastor, marry into the family who you now know to be a family of killers.

There was one thing that always struck us, and we weren't really able to talk about it too deeply in season two, is that on August 15th, 2018, three months before the Wagner family was in fact arrested, Elizabeth went to the police in Pike County and filed a report of threats and harassment, and that her address at that time was homeless. ♪

So that just offers a little insight into the life that Elizabeth was living. Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa was recently in court detailing the horrific situation Elizabeth Wagner was in when she lived with her husband, murderer Jake Wagner, Jake's brother George, and their parents, Angela and Billy.

It's a story that might sound chillingly familiar given what we now know about the Wagners' mistreatment of George's ex-wife and victim Hannah Mae Roden, Jake's ex-girlfriend. In regards to Elizabeth Wagner, she ultimately moved back to Ohio with them and lived with the defendant.

and his entire family. Again, you'll see this same thing happening over and over again, defending his family, controlling every movement of Elizabeth Wagner, including but not limited to demanding all of her personal identified information, her passwords, etc.,

and downloading tracking applications on at least one of her devices, specifically her phone. So when she would leave the residence to go to the library to apply for a job, and all this information we have on the wire conversations between George and Jake, on the night of their wedding, Jake asked for all of her identifying information, including passwords to any emails, social media, etc.,

I would note that was before they consummated their marriage. So that is how pervasive this amount of control is. There's a few important things to note in what Angie Canepa just laid out. The first is how Elizabeth is the third woman who entered the inner circle of the Wagner family to end up under their complete control and running for her life.

The second is a reference Kenepa makes to the recorded wire conversations the prosecution has obtained between George and Jake Wagner. It begs the question of what else will be revealed in soon approaching court proceedings. Accusations of Elizabeth, again, they accused her of being mildly physically abusive with the child and accused her of poisoning them with food. And basically it was when

Ms. Wagner accused her of poisoning them with food. That is when the alarms went off in her head because she was privy to conversations that they were having about how Tabitha had done that. As a reminder, Tabitha is George Wagner's ex-wife who lived with the family before they took custody of her son away. You know, she was led to believe that Tabitha was this terrible human. But when she started being accused of things that they had told her they accused Tabitha of, she became very concerned for her well-being.

- Jake and Angela Wagner confronted her in the kitchen. This was, the kitchen is the source of family meetings, typically, amongst the Wagners. And they confronted her because Angela had reported to Jake that the child in question had claimed abuse by Beth Wagner.

And Beth adamantly denied this. And I would note for the record that the child never repeated that to anybody else, including Jake. But Jake did tell Ms. Wagner that if he ever learned that she had, in fact, abused this child, that he would beat her with a bat. And that if he didn't do it, then his brother George would. And if his brother George didn't, then Billy would. And that would be the right thing to do.

You want to talk about gaslighting in a situation. So Elizabeth, living now with the Wagners, is...

Hearing accusations from the Wagners about previous women, about them being bad and that they were poisoning the children. Now with her, they create these allegations saying that Elizabeth is poisoning the children. They're creating these stories and rumors amongst each other and then threatening her, if it's true...

me, Jake Wagner, your husband, is going to beat you with a bat. And if not me, my older brother, George, he's going to beat you with a bat. Oh, wait, if not him, my dad, Billy Wagner, is going to beat you with a bat over a rumor that they're starting within their own little weird bubble. I mean, we're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.

After your entire world is flipped upside down,

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio.

I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil,

They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?

Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the all-new podcast There and Gone. It's a real-life story of two people who left a crowded Philadelphia bar, walked to their truck, and vanished. Nobody hears anything. Nobody sees anything. Did they run away? Was it an accident? Or were they murdered? A truck and two people just don't disappear. The FBI called it murder for hire. It was definitely murder for hire for Danielle.

Not for Richard. He's your son, and in your eyes, he's innocent. But in my eyes, he's just some guy my sister was with. In this series, I dig into my own investigation to find answers for the families and get justice for Richard and Danielle. Listen to There and Gone South Street on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There and Gone.

These alleged threats against Elizabeth Wagner did not only extend to her, but to her family as well. Tabitha, George Wagner's ex-wife and mother of his child, cut ties with the Wagners. She ran in the night from their property, afraid for her life. We sadly know what happened to Hannah Mae Roden. Finally, Jake's now ex-wife Elizabeth was caught living the same nightmare.

While Elizabeth was only with Jake Wagner for a short time, she met several relatives and friends in the Wagners' inner circle.

Here's Jeff speaking with an anonymous Wagner friend and Angela's half-brother, Chris. What do you make of Elizabeth? She's a little bit out there. I think she was gullible. I don't know. She was easy for Jake to target, I think. And what about in Alaska, Jake's wife, Elizabeth? Did you ever hear of her or meet her or talk to her? That girl was weird. Just strange. Did she come back to Ohio with them? From Alaska? Yeah. Yeah.

Do you know what happened to that relationship? Oh, they split up. I don't know exactly what. This is our anonymous Wagner source on what she thought about Elizabeth, specifically how living with the entire Wagner family might have impacted her. Did you know Elizabeth, Jake's wife? I didn't know her super well. I met her, I think, three times. And she was a little odd. If you ever watch her things, she has on like, what's that thing called? TikTok. TikTok.

Stuff that she said on there. And by all means, like I said, I was against it saying that they didn't kill no one and then supposedly they did. Like Angela was a bitch, you know, and told her what to do and, you know, stuff like that. Yes, I definitely think Angela would rule stuff like that with her, especially living under her house, especially with the kids. And I definitely think whenever Elizabeth starts saying that Suds was calling her mom and stuff like that, I think Angela is the one that took that seriously.

Way to hard. She didn't like that? No. SUDS is a nickname those close to the child use for Angela's granddaughter, Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden's daughter. Angela obviously was a grandma, but I think she played it off more that she wanted people to think that SUDS and **** was her kids also. If you ever was around them, that's just the way it put off. And what was your first impression of Elizabeth? The first time we met her, she was like...

happy-go-lucky and talked and played with the kids and everything seemed cool and then the next time it was like she was just setting the truck and they was here for like three or four hours working on trucks and she just sent the truck the whole time and didn't want to talk to nobody it was like she didn't want to be here you know she didn't want to be in ohio you know she would rather not came down here and then when she did she knew she made the mistake of

Jeff recently spoke with Wendy, an old family friend of the Wagners, about being invited to Jake and Elizabeth's wedding.

According to Wendy, before his arrest, killer son Jake Wagner was out and about in public, seemingly unbothered. They have this little place called the Nail Chick here, and they did this little cute fair that had animals and pig races and just a few small rides and stuff. And we just kind of all ran into each other and sat down and started talking about how everybody was, how everybody's been, because we haven't seen each other really since we were kids. Wow. And so you're up in Alaska. Yeah.

Yes. Like, we all just kind of like sit back and think like, it's kind of weird that you moved to Alaska. I didn't expect to run into them there because Nenilchik from where they lived was kind of like an hour and a half or so. So I wasn't expecting to run into them there. So when we did, I was nice. I said hello. You know, we talked a few minutes.

But I mean, that's really the only interaction I've had with them, that and him inviting us to the wedding. Is Elizabeth there with him? If I remember correctly, she's with him and George and their mom. That's who all was there while they're speaking to me. I never really met his girlfriend, so I'm assuming that's who that was, the female that was with him.

He seemed normal. Everything with the whole family was kind of like talking to normal people. Nothing ever came up about the situation. Nothing crazy ever came from it. And you didn't go to the wedding? I did not. Why not? I don't know. When they moved here, and like I said, in the back of my head, I kind of like was like, I wonder if they're involved. I don't involve myself with that. I stayed away as far as possible. So whenever they invited me, I was like, oh, you know, that's cool. Congratulations. But then like hung up the phone and was like, no, not going to that.

Angela Wagner's role has centered on the narrative that she was one pulling the strings. The overbearing mother obsessed with being the ultimate matriarch. But what if everyone has it wrong and Billy was calling the shots? We last saw 51-year-old Billy Wagner in court in February of 2022. He's facing 22 criminal charges in connection to the killings.

At 6'6" and 274 pounds, Billy is an imposing figure. But his hulking stature wasn't the only thing that got our attention in November of 2018. This was his first court appearance regarding the murders, and he entered the room with a scowl on his face and several noticeable tattoos.

The first is on his left arm, and this tattoo is described by the Anti-Defamation League as three interlocking triangles known as the Knot of the Slain. It's of Norse origin. On his right hand, between his point of finger and thumb, was also a scorpion tattoo. Some think the eight-segmented scorpion on Billy's trigger finger represents the eight rodent victims.

It's important to note that George and Billy have pleaded not guilty and have not yet stood trial for the killings. Here's KT Studios producer Chris Graves speaking with death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, Stephanie, and Jeff.

I think that people look at Billy and my gosh, you know, when you see him walking into a courtroom, I think that he certainly makes lesser men shake. I mean, he is an imposing presence. If folks have not seen this guy on camera, do yourself a favor and take a look at this guy's just physical dimensions lumbering forth into that courtroom. Massive hands,

these kind of odd tattoos that he's got on his body. You know, he's just a big, big man imposing. You know, he is the kind of guy you would not want angry at you. So does that Hulk that he presents as, does that mean that he's not capable of planning something like this? Is it the reverse? Everybody's money's been on Angela. How do we know?

You know, we have heard now from multiple people about how Billy Wagner would grind his teeth. And it's such a scary visual. I actually thought about this when I drove out by the Wagner home place. You know, there was that story that came up that every time Billy would get angry, his way of apologizing to Angela was to go buy her a basket. That her walls in her kitchen were decorated with these baskets. And wow, isn't that something when you think about that?

You know, and can you imagine being a family member, even a peripheral family member that walks into the place, and the first thing you're going to do is to look up on the wall and see if Angela's added another basket. You know, because anything that she says or does, you know, Billy's going to fly off the handle, maybe he's going to break something. I don't know. I don't know what that family dynamic is. But I tell you this, you've kind of got this material representation of it in these things he would buy her, and she'd put them up on the wall. ♪

Sure, but you also look at him and you know he's only had a seventh grade education and would someone like that be capable of executing a plan of this difficulty just to play devil's advocate? I'll play that game and, you know, we can talk about this being nuanced intellectually, I guess, on one level, but when you see the savagery and the brutality that was exacted from a Roden family, I don't know, is that a possibility? Could he be controlled at that level?

Or did he sit down and he had a few lucid moments and he put this master plan together and he's telling everybody what to do? I don't know. Hopefully that's going to come out in court. And that's what's so compelling about this, because we've got the brutality that's well documented. Things are hidden from us at this point in time for a good reason. It brings me back to the overarching theme here, and that is who's calling the shots?

Let's stop here for another break.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio.

I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil,

They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?

Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives.

Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the all-new podcast There and Gone.

It's a real-life story of two people who left a crowded Philadelphia bar, walked to their truck, and vanished. Nobody hears anything. Nobody sees anything. Did they run away? Was it an accident? Or were they murdered? A truck and two people just don't disappear. The FBI called it murder for hire. It was definitely murder for hire for Danielle, not for Richard. He's your son, and in your eyes, he's innocent.

But in my eyes, he's just some guy my sister was with. In this series, I dig into my own investigation to find answers for the families and get justice for Richard and Danielle. Listen to There and Gone South Street on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In speaking with people who knew the Wagner family, we learned about the dynamics in the family. And George and Billy seemed to butt heads quite a bit. We also learned that there were sort of alliances within this cult-like family.

Angela and Jake were described to us as very close and often together. And on the other side of that, George and Billy were often very close and together. And people went out of their way to say that Angela and George did not spend a lot of time together and Jake and Billy did not spend a lot of time together. So it's interesting to hear that despite being on the outside a very tight foursome, there were some cracks in that and some kind of

power dynamics going on behind closed doors. And to that end, there had also been rumors that accused dad Billy Wagner was possibly not the father of youngest son Jake Wagner.

We did in fact go down that rabbit hole and pulled records and in fact pulled Jake Wagner's birth certificate and both Billy Wagner and Angela Wagner are in fact listed as his parents. So we put that rumor to rest. But again, in the town, it spoke to sort of an alliance between Angela Wagner and her youngest son, Jake Wagner, and maybe how Billy Wagner and George Wagner, the eldest son, that they were a fractured family.

Here again is Angela Wagner's half-brother Chris speaking to Jeff about what he thought of Billy Wagner and Angela Wagner's relationship. How would you describe Angela and Billy's relationship? From when I was around it, he treated her like shit. And I mean, just talked to her like she's less than dirt. Billy continues to proclaim his innocence and his attorneys have requested the death penalty be dismissed before the trial. This request has been denied.

In that hearing, Judge Randy Dearing ruled that Billy Wagner's trial will start no later than October 31st, 2022. Based on our research, Billy Wagner has been in trouble with the law before. Charges include more serious ones like tampering with evidence and receiving stolen property in 2009. There are also some minor offenses such as speeding, driving without mud flaps on his truck, and boating without flotation devices.

It should be noted that the last charge happened in Alaska. So post-Rodan murders, Billy Wagner was enjoying some time on the lake. Frederica Wagner is Billy Wagner's mother. Patricia worked for many years for Frederica. Patricia was also accused murderer George Wagner's former mother-in-law. All that to say, Patricia has many inroads to the Wagners.

Do you think Angela felt that and Angela could tell that Frederica did not like her and not approve of her? Yeah.

Patricia's relationship with Frederica was a working one, but the two were very close and Patricia got intimate insights into the Wagner family's life, especially Frederica and her late husband, Bob Wagner, Billy's parents. ♪

What was Frederica's husband like? He was a sweetheart. He didn't cause no trouble for nobody. He stayed on the farm, except for he'd go to Kroger's and go grocery shopping. He stayed on the farm and worked with them horses until past dark. And Frederica would get on to him all the time for working too long and too hard, especially the older he got. And we'd sit in the living room one day and he said the sweetest thing and I'll never forget it.

We're sitting there watching the horse races and Frederica came in. She said, "Suck to Bob." She says, "Oh, you don't want to see my old, ugly face." He looked at her and he said, "Sweetheart, when I look at you, I see you the day I met you. Just as beautiful." She bent down and gave him a big old kiss and that was the sweetest thing I'd ever seen in my life. I'm thankful that Bob had Alzheimer's there when all this happened so he didn't really know what was going on. And it kills me that Frederica has to go through it.

Frederica and Bob Wagner had a long marriage and worked on a horse farm they owned, The Flying W. In addition to raising prize ponies, the Wagners also bred dogs. It seems a wholesome living, but there have been some rumors of Wagner's misdeeds. Turns out that Frederica Wagner, often known as the pious head of the hardworking Wagner family, was embroiled with some questionable dealings on behalf of her son, Billy.

We know that Billy and Angela Wagner were convicted of receiving stolen property in 2012. The specifics of the following story are Patricia's recollection of events. Here again, Patricia speaking with Stephanie and Jeff. A lot of Billy's past. Billy's gotten in trouble and gone to jail for it. Do you know for what? Yeah. They would pull up to truck stops and hook Billy's rig up to a trailer and take off with it and whatever goods were inside, they would sell.

And they got busted for it a couple of times. Billy had the rig, and what got him caught is that they sold a truckload of boots, and they took them to the flea market to sell them. And the police said they wouldn't have gotten caught if they had just sold the boots by themselves, but they sold the boots in the box, which has tracking numbers on them to what got them caught.

Billy Wagner and Angela went to jail over that, and a couple of other people had gone to jail with them because they were in on it too. We have heard versions of this story. The only reason I know is because I was sent to the jailhouse in Pike County to put money on their books. That's the only reason I know. So it's not hearsay for me.

Put money on their books, that means like for commissary and phone calls and stuff? Yeah. Who called you and asked you to do that? My boss. Oh, Frederica. Okay, got it. And if money wasn't really an issue, because we've always heard too that, oh, well, the Wagner family is prestigious and they have money. They have money. And yes, Frederica does have some old money. But most of the money that Frederica has, she worked her stuff to the bone, her and her husband both. But Billy was spoiled. He got everything and

And Bob would get so mad that Frederica would hand Billy money like you wouldn't believe and just hand it to him. Because if she didn't, he'd throw a fit. So she's 40. It's just one failure after another with him. But it breaks my heart to see her and her daughter and her other son go through this.

And my honest opinion is, yeah, part of it may have been behind, but there's something greater behind it. They've drug other family members in, cousins and girlfriends and brothers. To me, it may be have something to do with that one little girl. But to me, there's a bigger reason. You can't tell me that they walked in and killed eight people over one child. I'm never gonna believe that. I don't know why they did it.

Or if they did it for somebody else? I don't know. That's between them, God, and whoever they did it for. Who that may be is not clear to us. As we await upcoming trial dates, more evidence continues pouring out. According to this document, if it's true, George only goes along at the last minute to protect Jake from his own father. The document Anjanette is referring to is Motion 80, filed by George Wagner's defense attorneys.

What's going on when Big Brother thinks, I got to go along to protect my little brother because dad might kill him? It does really kind of make you think, who was calling the shots in this operation? The state made a deal with the devil, basically. I know he says he made a deal with the devil. Unfortunately, there's more than one devil in this case. Well, it seems that Mr. Wagner drives a semi-truck for a living and the government put a bug in it.

They're saying basically the cops were doing things to try to egg these people on so that they would say things on wiretaps. It's called tickling the wire. It's very common. They put information out and then see if anything's come of it. I think they use this in mob cases and stuff like that. I'm looking at this and I'm thinking to myself, what on earth could be so damning in these recordings?

I guess George, in this scenario, was ready to die for his brother. That would be one hell of a car ride, wouldn't it? More on that next time. If you're enjoying The Pyton Massacre, listen to our other hit series, Crazy in Love. New episodes air every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts. For more information and case photos, follow us on Instagram at kt underscore studios.

The Pikedon Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Trois. Music by Jared Astin. Audio mixing by Ken Novak. The Pikedon Massacre is a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.

Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends. I didn't know we were going to go there on this. People

people that I admire. When we say listen to your body, really tune in to what's going on. Authors of books that have changed my life. Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right? Never forget, it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one. Listen to A Really Good Cry with Radhi Devlukia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm also Lacey Lamar. Just kidding. I'm Amber Revin. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. This season, we make new friends, deep dive into my steamy DMs,

Answer your listener questions and more. The more is punch each other. Listen to the Amber and Lacey Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen, okay? Or Lacey gets it. Do it.