Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.
Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to Haunting, Purgatory's premiere podcast. I'm your host, Teresa. We'll be bringing you different ghost stories each week, straight from the person who experienced it firsthand. Some will be unsettling, some unnerving, some even downright terrifying. But all of them will be totally true.
Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Piketon Massacre, Season 2, Return to Pike County, a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. Heavenly Father, we are gathered here today. Let us bow our heads. It was a really good wedding. She had a camouflage dress and she had a camo tux.
Eight bodies have been discovered. All members of the Rodin family. The largest case Ohio's state investigators have ever seen. I told her, I said, listen, you don't want to marry him. And she said, well, why not? I said, because his mom is very controlling. Please join hands. From what we hear, the relationship was intense. It sounded like the Hatfields and the McCoys taken to the nth degree.
so long as you both shall live. - Four members of the Wagner family have been charged with eight counts of aggravated murder. - I have never encountered where an entire family is accused of the mass murder of another family. - Something so horrific has occurred and it's almost beyond explanation. - When I look at one particular picture from the wedding day, it's impossible to believe that nearly half of the people are dead and half are accused of their murders.
This is The Pikedon Massacre, Season 2, Return to Pike County, Episode 1, Ties That Bind. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane.
On the morning of April 22nd, 2016, authorities found eight members of the Rodin family brutally gunned down across four different crime scenes in Pike County, Ohio. Two years later, in November of 2018, four members of the Wagner family were arrested for their murders. It was a gruesome crime that shocked the nation.
We've been following the Roden family murder case since we made a documentary about it a few years ago. We were in the middle of producing season two of this podcast when we suddenly learned of a shocking development that none of us were expecting. It's the fifth anniversary of the murders. Our social media folks started hearing people posting, hey, there's a hearing today. You got to be there. There might be something big going down. BCI has told the Roden family to be at the Pike County Courthouse at 1.30 for a hearing. Breaking news tonight. Shocking new developments from Pike County.
- On April 22nd of 2016, eight members of the Roden family were found dead at four different properties. - The investigation lasted nearly two years before authorities arrested Jake Wagner along with several members of his family. - A lot of people care about it, a lot of people know about it, and a lot of people are talking about it today.
On Thursday, April 22nd, 2021, the five-year anniversary of the murders, we sat at our computers watching a live stream from the Pike County Courthouse. And there he was, Jake Wagner, flanked by his two attorneys as Judge Randy Deering entered the courtroom. All rise. Thank you. Please be seated. Thank you.
Mr. for the record, I'll identify myself as Rob Dunn, Pike County Prosecutor. I'm here on behalf of the state of Ohio on state of Ohio versus Edward J. Wagner, and that would be Pike County Common Police Court's case 2018 CR 154. If you want the court to note, today marks the fifth anniversary of the homicides of eight members of the Rhodes, Naley's, and Gilley families. And as it is the fifth anniversary, this is a prayer for your time for us that we have
"Reached an agreement with this defendant, Edward J. Wacker, to resolve this case." Prosecutor Rob Junk listed off the names of each slain member of the Rodin family. "Christopher Rodin, Sr., Gary Rodin, Clarence Frankie Rodin, Kenneth Rodin, Hannah Gilley, Dana Manley, Hannah Rodin, and Christopher Rodin, Jr." When Judge Deering asked Jake how he pled to each aggravated murder charge, he replied with one simple phrase:
We realized that this whole case had blown open and we'd be following in real time. We immediately got on the phone with some of the journalists and experts that had been covering the case the closest. Across the board, there was one pretty consistent reaction. When we heard the judge say...
I understand you're here to make a plea agreement. And we're like, oh my gosh, this is huge. I was really surprised, especially as long and hard as they fought it. It was a total shock. I was sitting in a restaurant when I got the call, and I almost fell out of the booth.
After all of these years that somebody is going to suddenly say, yeah, you know, I know we've said, you know, several times over the last five years, we vehemently denied any involvement in this and acted offended. And then all of a sudden, like, oh, yeah, well, one of them changed their minds. It was a little bit stunning, but it was Jake.
because everybody who's really covered this case closely thought if anybody wavered, it would have been George. Our first question, why did Jake Wagner finally break? ♪
I don't know that any of us would know. Is he going to tell us why? Why would you make this deal? Was he doing this to save their lives or was he just turning on them? I can't say for sure. Is there a likelihood that the other family members will plead out? I mean, that's entirely possible. Just weeks before the hearing, we had received a photo from Pike County native Christina. Her sister Tabitha was once married to the eldest accused son, George Wagner.
In light of Jake's plea deal, the image is nothing short of chilling. We posted it on our Instagram, at KT underscore studios. It's a picture of both the Roden and Wagner families gathered together to celebrate George and Tabitha's wedding back in 2012. Looking at it, it's impossible to imagine that, aside from the bride, half the people pictured would be dead, the other half accused of their murders. Yet, here they are, embracing in happier times.
At the left of the photo is Jake Wagner, the youngest accused son who we just heard plead guilty. He's smiling, his right hand resting on his accused mother, Angela Wagner's arm. Standing behind them at 6'6" is Jake's accused father, Billy Wagner, noticeably emotionless. Standing next to Billy Wagner in the photo is father and victim, Chris Roden Sr. Family friend Stefan remembers Chris's expert craftsmanship and genuine kindness.
He was an amazing carpenter. His imagination. If they said money's no object, you would be amazed at the things that he could do. And you couldn't ask for a better person. Coroner, distinguished professor, and criminal forensic expert Joseph Morgan tried to make sense of the Roden murders, starting with father and family patriarch Chris Sr.,
Some of this will be hard to hear, particularly if you're personally connected to the tragedy, but it's important to understand the magnitude of what happened that night. He was shot nine times. Now, for me, as a forensic investigator, I would look at that and I would deem that as overkill. And, you know, why would somebody need to be shot nine times? They're saying that there's evidence that he attempted or reacted at least to the point where he raised his arm.
his right forearm, and it shattered one of the bones. When you've got an individual that has got defensive wounds, that person has an awareness. So that goes to a level of callousness that this rises to. Standing just in front of Chris Sr. in the wedding photo with his father's arm draped around his shoulder is the youngest rodent victim, 16-year-old Chris Jr., affectionately called Little Chris.
Brittany was Chris Jr.'s best friend. Roden family members spoke to reporters about Chris Jr. soon after the murders. He had a whole life ahead of him.
16-year-old Chris Jr. was shot four times, including twice in the top of his head. He was found wedged behind his bed, implying that he was trying to hide from the killer or killers.
Just in back of Chris Jr. in the photo stands his older brother, 20-year-old victim Frankie Roden. Christina knew Frankie growing up. Frankie, he was the kind of guy, like, he did his fair share of hunting and fishing and all that. But he did, like, derbies and working on cars and stuff. That was his passion. Frankie Roden was engaged to victim Hannah Gilley, not pictured. Just before the murders, the couple had had their first child together.
They're six-month-old and Frankie's three-year-old son were left alive at the scene. Frankie and Hannah, they did want more children and, you know, they had a bright future. And just, oh, it just hurts my heart to think that, you know, they'll never get to go on with their future plans, you know? Twenty-year-old Frankie Roden was shot three times in the head as he lay in bed next to his fiancée and their six-month-old.
We talk about Hannah Gilley, who shot five times. She catches one in the eye. It poses this idea of, why are you shooting these people in the face? What's the purpose of it? Because not only are you shooting them in the face, you're shooting them multiple times. What threat did she pose? She's laying there with her child in the bed. To the right of the group photograph, we see the two newlyweds, the accused eldest son, George Wagner, and his new bride, smiling excitedly.
We believe that Dana, victim and matriarch of the Roden family, was behind the camera taking the photo. Christina remembered Dana Roden that day in 2012. She seemed pretty bubbly, you know, she was getting along with her family. I seen her laughing with them, but mostly she was going around taking pictures of everything.
Dana Roden and Chris Roden Sr. were married for 13 years. Even though they divorced, they remained friends. In fact, Dana lived just down the road in a home that Chris Sr. had purchased for her two weeks before their murders. She had just returned home from a double shift at her job as a nurse that fateful night.
Here is Stefan, one of Dana Roden's closest friends. She was such a good person, but, you know, she would fight for her family. She would literally fight for her family. And good-hearted. A lot of fun. You know, always laughing, cracking up. Yeah, from what we hear, she was, like, really strong-willed and really smart. Yeah, she sure was. She was a very, very good person. She was very smart.
She, again, like Chris Sr., was shot multiple times. And not only was she shot multiple times, but specifically reports have her having been shot five times, four times, four times in the head. Now, why the hell would you shoot somebody four times in the head? Because, you know, one should suffice.
But the shooter took the time to take that muzzle of that weapon, stick it beneath Dana's chin, stick it beneath her chin. This is a common location for suicide, all right? This is atypical for homicide.
Victim Gary Roden, Chris Sr.'s cousin, also not pictured, was a beloved member of the family. By all accounts, Gary and Chris Sr. were very close. Here's Anjanette Levy. She's an Emmy-nominated Ohio reporter who has been covering the case since the beginning. Gary just happened to be at Chris's home that night. He was actually from Kentucky. So, you know, he didn't even live in the area or the neighborhood. But, you know, lived close enough to where he was staying with Chris that evening.
We do know that the shooter was very, very close to Gary when they fired because they talk about what is referred to as a press contact gunshot wound. And if our listeners will essentially take your index finger, okay, and point it toward the palm of your hand and extend the tip of your finger, maybe, I don't know, probably about half an inch away from the surface of your palm,
That's kind of what we refer to as a contact wound. And what that means is that you're going to have, you know, the bullets not the only thing coming out of the end of the weapon. You're going to have the fire that actually the ignition of the bullet and the round, you'll have this burning of powder that's coming out. You'll have unburned powder that's coming out. So this is a very intimate event.
Kenneth Roden, Chris Sr.'s brother, who was also missing from the photo, was not with the family that day. He was, you know, a great father. And he would do anything for anybody. You've got Kenneth, who was actually, again, shot in the face. And not only was he shot in the face, he was shot in the eye. You know, what does it say to you?
that they would take the time and put theirself in a position where they could be face to face with Kenneth. He was found covered with dollar bills that were strewn about his body. He just, I mean, he can't make this up.
Standing front and center in the picture is then 15-year-old victim Hannah Roden. She's in a black bridesmaid's dress and leans in close to her boyfriend, accused younger son Jake Wagner. Their child together would eventually become the alleged center point of this crime. They had been dating for a few years when the photo was taken and appeared very happy. Jake Wagner was Hannah Roden's first love.
Christina told us things between them were getting serious. I heard Hannah and Jake, like, talking about how good and pretty Tabby and George's wedding was and that they hoped whenever they get married that it'll be pretty like that and all that good stuff.
Brittany was also friends with Hannah. She was great. She was funny. She was really funny. She was really, really nice. She knew everyone. Everyone knew her. And she just, like, talked to everyone. She wasn't stuck up or anything like that.
And she lived life to the fullest. Prior to the murder, Hannah Roden had broken up with Jake Wagner. She had started dating someone new, and the pair had a baby together that she gave birth to four days before the murders. Hannah Roden, she was shot twice in the head as her four-day-old newborn lay beside her. Maybe they're curled in a fetal posture, along with their baby just curled in a fetal posture.
Mama's slowly stroking the head of the baby to try to, you know, calm, soothe the baby during the night. Maybe she awakes and breastfeeds the baby during the night while she's sleeping. It's a position people have slept in for thousands and thousands of years. It's a position of comfort. You imagine you're laying there, you're there to protect your baby, and you're curled up on your side. There's an awareness. The only people left alive were three children. Hannah's 40-year-old infant, Frankie's three-year-old son from a previous relationship,
and the six-month-old baby he shared with his fiancée, Hannah Gilley. The choice to spare the children left investigators perplexed. Here's James Pilcher. He's an on-air reporter for Local 12 News in Cincinnati, Ohio, and a longtime investigative journalist in the area. Usually when you have a mass shooting or a mass murder, everybody's killed.
So to see that three kids all under the age of three years old, some infants, were left unharmed next to their parents who were shot dead, very, very unusual. Soon after the murders, members of the Rodin family gave a statement to the local media pleading for help in finding their family's killers. We know what follows is difficult listening, but we want to acknowledge the pain the entire surviving Rodin family has gone through. Lots of people, they lose their
One family member, and when you lose eight, nobody has any idea what we've been through. Our lives, as of right now, will never be the same. They stole so much from us. The killer stole so much. They stole their lives, but then they stole ours too because we live with it every day.
But my brothers were good people. They would do anything to help you. Dana was a wonderful person. She always tried to help do stuff for my mom. Frankie and his fiancee, Hannah, they were taken away from their kids. They were taken away from us. My niece, Hannah Mae, she had a baby that I haven't even got to meet. The Gillies, Gary's mom and dad, they...
only know what we are all going through. And I know that in their hearts, in their minds, they're hoping and praying every day, just like we are, that whoever did this will be brought to justice. Looking back at the wedding photo, what's hard to wrap our heads around is that all the players are in this one picture Christina gave us. There they are, the Wagners and the Rodens, smiling together.
And just six years later, in November 2018, the Wagner family would be arrested for the murders of the Rodents. We promised that the day would come when arrests would be made in the Pike County massacres. Today is that day. Billy Wagner, his wife Angela, and their two sons, George and Jake, are accused of multiple counts of murder.
Billy, Angela, George, and Jake Wagner were all charged with eight counts of aggravated murder. Additionally, Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Newcomb, and Billy's mother, Frederica Wagner, were accused of perjury and obstructing justice for allegedly misleading investigators.
Angela's mother, Rita Newcomb, was also charged with forging custody documents to cover up the crimes. What was surprising was that you had these two grandmothers arrested, Frederico Wagner and then Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Newcomb. You had two grandmothers being charged with helping to cover up these crimes because then your mind kind of goes wild. You naturally think, well, did they know before it happened? You know, if you're alleging they were part of a cover-up, what happened?
Though Rita Jo Newcomb reached a plea deal in which the bulk of the charges were dismissed and the charges against Frederico Wagner were eventually dropped, the suspicion around the family grew. And the ties that bound the Wagners and the Rodens came into focus. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.
After your entire world is flipped upside down,
From unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal. This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me.
Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm John Walzak.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.
But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat.
It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?
Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions.
Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
We talked earlier about the baby Hannah Rodin and Jake Wagner had together in 2013. The couple and their daughter split time between the Rodin and the Wagner households. For everyone involved, the situation worked well. However, when the couple broke up in 2015, the families became bitter rivals. But when that news broke that they were actually being indicted and charged, I felt like this must have been something personal.
The animosity led authorities to pinpoint one salient motive in the case. They say that the Wagners were obsessed with custody and really obsessed with their bloodline. Custody of the daughter that Hannah Roden shared with Jake Wagner. The prosecution says that was the heart of the motive in this case. They wanted sole custody and they weren't going to stop until they got it.
Investigative reporter Jody Barr was shocked by these allegations. I have never encountered this in my 15 years of journalism, where an entire family is accused of the mass murder of another family over what's presumably, if we're to believe the prosecution and the investigation, over custody of children. I think that was the toughest part for me personally, was dealing with what happens to those kids.
And then it comes out later, this was all about the kids and it was a fight over the kids. That was troubling to me personally. Like who would do that to have custody and to be able to love and nurture a child and yet have that act of violence within themselves to do that on their behalf? Those are two things that I just can't rectify in my mind.
It's human nature to ask why. Why would someone perpetrate something so horrific? Think about what that means. We're going to eradicate you off the face of the planet. That's, boy, that's on a biblical scale when you begin to think about it. By God, we're going to make sure that they're not just dead, they're Julius Caesar dead. After their arrest, the Wagners continued to maintain their innocence, and their family was with them every step of the way.
Here's grandmother Frederica Wagner responding to reporters when asked if she thought her family was involved in the Roden murders. Absolutely not. None of us were anywhere near that place that night. In the two years since the arrest, most have considered the Wagners as the most likely suspects in the Roden murders. It appeared that they were a very close group who discreetly planned this massacre for months.
But at the same time, it's just beyond the pale to kill an entire family over custody. And now, after Jake Wagner's bombshell plea deal, we wondered: Was the Wagner bond breaking? — The Wagners were a cult-like family. And if what the Wagners are accused of doing to the Rodens— I mean, they're accused of doing this together. They're accused of trying to cover it up together as a family.
And the old cliche, blood is thicker than water. Well, cult-like, I don't know what the probability of, in a cult, one telling on another, especially with the consequences that would come down if one Wagner told on another and one went to prison. If the state had to depend on one Wagner telling on another,
The chances of that happening are likely not very good. Now, finally, there may be some answers. You know, who went into what home? Who died first? Why they died? You know, why they chose to spare the children? So I would just hope we get to hear finally from someone
At least in Jake Wagner's case, I mean, where's the remorse? You know, is there remorse for what happened? And if not, man, this is, again, if there's a level beyond cold-blooded evil, if there is a level beyond that, I think we have seen it. I don't know that we know what to call it. In all, Jake Wagner pled guilty to all eight aggravated murder charges as well as to 15 other criminal counts that included conspiracy, aggravated burglary, and tampering with evidence.
He also named his father Billy, his mother Angela, and brother George Wagner as co-conspirators. In exchange for his plea, the death sentence was taken off the table for him and the rest of his family. But perhaps what's most shocking is that Jake is actually going to testify against all of his family members.
It seems at the bare minimum, there's not a Wagner that's stepping out of prison anytime soon. The following is real-time audio from the courtroom when the prosecution laid out the charges against Jake Wagner. The information that Jake provided clearly indicated he and each members of his family, to include Billy, Angela, and George Wagner, as being guilty of all the counts contained in the indictments filed in this matter.
Based on the totality of the information now known by the state, including the forthright statements of the defendant, we have overwhelming evidence that the defendant and the three co-defendant members of his family are in fact responsible for planning and carrying out the homicides. Jake admitted that in the late evening hours of April 21st, 2016, into the early morning hours of April 22nd, 2016, is when they committed these homicides.
We know that they trespassed into each of the four residents where the victims were found with the intent to kill them, and that they were armed with firearms, at least two of which had homemade silencers affixed to them when they did so. We know that they conspired together and planned these homicides for the months that led up to the offenses, and that all four co-defendants took part in that, as well as making various purchases to accomplish their goal.
We know that they removed the phones of all but two of the victims and cameras and other surveillance equipment of the victims in order to avoid detection.
Jake also admitted to personally killing five members of the rodents himself, though the victims were unnamed. At this point, as noted, Your Honor, the defendant has in essence confessed and apologized for committing these offenses with his family members and admits to personally causing the death of five of the eight victims and either committing all of the other offenses contained in the indictment directly or by being complicit in them.
It was also noted that Wagner provided investigators with information that led to the recovery of the weapons and vehicles used in the murders. Most recently, Your Honor, the state sat down with Jake Wagner, who has provided the state with many more details regarding these offenses, some of which were very consistent with what the state already knew and with the evidence that had already been collected. Some of the information, however, that was provided by Jake was new.
In addition to the information that Jake provided us, what he told us led us to discover some evidence that had yet to be recovered, specifically the weapons that were used in these offenses, along with vehicles that were used during these offenses, including one that was bought specifically to use the night of the homicides only.
Though Jake was spared the death penalty, prosecutors pulled no punches with his sentencing. Jake's lawyers responded.
We're fully satisfied that he's gone eyes wide open into this agreement. He knows he's going to die in prison without any judicial release. And as he just said, and I appreciate Ms. Canepa mentioning it, and as I'm sure he'll say more when the day of sentencing arrives, as horrifying as this is for all, he is as sorry as he can be.
One moment from the court proceeding stood out to us. When the judge was running through each victim and got to Hannah Roden, it was impossible not to notice when Jake Wagner had an audible pause and a noticeable smirk.
What do you make of the smirk when he is pleading guilty? He kind of smiled. I don't know if you noticed that. Oh, I sure did. That's Mike Allen. He's a former prosecutor and now a criminal defense attorney in Ohio. He's been covering the case for years. I don't know how you could work up a smile. I don't care what you're thinking for something like that.
What does that say about Jay Quagner? I mean, he's got a depraved mind. Anybody that could do that, it would not meet, obviously, the legal definition of insanity. But, you know, there's something wrong with him that you can be that cold to go about doing that. I mean, really, that's all I can say. I've been at this stuff for a long time and I've never seen one. I guess the word that comes to my mind is hardcore as this.
There was a different reaction when Hannah's name came up. Maybe his reaction was like that because, like, he personally killed her or something.
Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, who presided over the investigation as Attorney General, was at the Pike County Courthouse as Jake's hearing unfolded. Well, we've all read or heard of the book In Cold Blood. This was cold, cold, cold blood. I mean, this was calculated, planned out. And now they have... And it just, you know, I mean, it just chills you to think about the calculation that goes into something like this. Five years ago today...
And there was a collective sigh of relief from locals in southern Ohio.
Pike County resident Barb explained her initial shock. I can't imagine that he would admit to murdering eight people and if he didn't really do it. He said, guilty. I thought, are you lying? What are you doing? But then I thought, oh my God, it blew my mind.
Brittany tried to come to terms with the news. I'm just focusing on the good, and a good thing happened today, and I know that they're in heaven looking down and just thinking how stupid the Wagners are, thinking they would get away with it. Christina put the day's events in perhaps the most poetic way possible. Justice to me is karma is a bitch, and it catches up with everybody eventually. You can run all you want, but you'll never outrun it.
We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind.
Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down. From unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal.
This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh my God.
In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.
But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.
Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.
But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to.
Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition?
Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives.
Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The question remains, why did Jake do this now? He was doing it to...
keep himself from getting the death sentence and pretty much telling on the rest of his family like, yeah, I'm going to drag you guys down, but I'm going to save my butt from getting the death sentence.
Was he pleading guilty to save himself or his family? The family has done nothing but fight, fight, fight and profess their innocence this whole time. And, you know, I thought that they would fight this to the bitter end and take it to trial and see what they could do at trial. So now, you know, if Billy, the controlling figure, or Mom, the controlling figure, isn't around, Jake's there to think for himself.
He apparently, you know, has information on a lot of them. Yes, he did throw them under the bus, but perhaps he saved their lives.
What's in store for Jake's co-conspirators? None of the other Wagnerists have pleaded guilty, so what could we see if they go to trial? I just think for a family that was so united and, you know, did things like take votes on finances and wives and children. I mean, they lived, you know, as one unit, the prosecution has said in court papers. These people did nothing without consulting the other. This is a massive break, right?
a massive shift. It's like a huge crater in the middle of the Wagner family kind of united front.
He is going to testify against his family members. Now, I mean, I don't know of anybody in Hollywood that could write a better script than that. You know, how compelling is that? Something that has this kind of gothic undertone to it, you know, in rural America, where these individuals are going to, you know, come forward and stand and stare at him.
You think about staring into the eyes of your kinfolks across the room as you're sitting in the dock there and you're looking at them straight in the eyes. And, um,
People that you've spent Thanksgivings with, Christmases, you know, these moments throughout your life and you're looking at them and you're potentially sending them to the proverbial gallows by virtue of what you're going to say. But what happens if the other three Wagners reach plea deals as well? If any other guilty plea in this case ends the way Jake Wagner's ended,
We still may not know exactly why this happened. It seemed like the impossible murder. You go back to April 22nd, 2016, and the months after, I mean, everyone had assumed that this was a drug cartel hit. It fit. It made sense. The only way this could happen is a highly skilled, trained assassin would come in and pull this off and get away with it.
I want to know exactly what happened that night. You know, how did they get in the homes? We know the end. We've got some idea of what happened in the middle.
But I think I want to know about the beginning. You know, was this truly about custody? You know, I would just like to know, you know, exactly why, from Jake Wagner. When did the switch flip to where the only resolution to whatever was going on between him and the rodents at that point was to go and kill them all? It makes absolutely no sense. One thing is certain, there's only more bombshells to come.
We will be tracking the case in real time as they develop. And it seems justice has begun to be served. Now three more Wagners to go.
The Pikedon Massacre, Return to Pike County is executive produced by Stephanie Lidecker and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by executive producer Jared Astin. Additional producing by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker, and Chris Graves. The Pikedon Massacre, Return to Pike County is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.
Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to Haunting, Purgatory's premiere podcast. I'm your host, Teresa. We'll be bringing you different ghost stories each week, straight from the person who experienced it firsthand. Some will be unsettling, some unnerving, some even downright terrifying. But all of them will be totally true.
Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.