Kelsey Grammer Reveals All (Pt 2): Lessons on Love, Loss, Healing & Remembering
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Coming up, an incredible part two episode with Kelsey Grammer, where he shares things he's never shared before and reveals stories that have changed his life for the first time ever. These inspiring stories and incredible stories

Incredible life-changing lessons just might change your life today too. Kelsey is a Golden Globe award-winning, Emmy award-winning, Tony award-winning, Screen Actors Guild award-winning, People's Choice award-winning actor, comedian, and producer. He first gained fame for his role as Dr. Frasier Crane on the hit TV show Cheers.

And later, it's spinoff Frasier, making primetime television history, playing one of the longest-running roles for more than 20 years by a single actor. He is the founder of Faith American Brewing Company, a husband to his wife, Kate, and the father of seven children. It was recently announced he'll be playing Beast in the much-anticipated Avengers Doomsday.

Today, we're actually seeing a deeply personal and intimate part of Kelsey in perhaps one of the most important and meaningful works of his life, Kelsey's brand new book, where he explores love, loss, healing, and celebrating the memory of a life filled with joy. Whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family.

And if you're here right now, can you do me a quick favor? If you like the show and the guests that I bring you, if you could please hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're listening or watching on, it truly means the world to me. Thank you so much. And I want to remind you that this episode, it's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know, because what you're about to hear could change your life and theirs too.

Also, every episode of the Jamie Crenn Lima Show features a wide range of guests. I believe that you can't help heal humanity through love unless you understand the humans that make it up. I have friends who vote differently, love differently, and believe completely differently than me.

I've gotten hate for giving them love, but I'll never stop doing that because I know why I'm here and it's to be a force for love. This world now more than ever desperately needs the force for love inside each of us.

You can't help heal humanity through love if you only love the people who are just like you and aren't truly open and curious about the humans who make up the collective humanity that I believe is possible for all of us to heal together. And with that, let's get this episode started. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Oprah, how have you defied the odds? Her show?

is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug, but your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow. Melinda French Gates. When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her. I could see the light around her. She's infused with light. Imagine over

coming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show. Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima.

On the topic of success leaves clues, right? Your perspective on the people that are maybe your opposition or don't believe in you or come against you. Some people would take that as like, oh, I'm never going to make it. Or they would take it as, you know, whatever, whatever. But do you think those things happen for you? Yes. This is that radical forgiveness thing that I think plays into it. Kate turned me on to it more than I'd been aware of it. But I was always aware that

I might get hanged dog once in a while. I get some bad advice from somebody and go, never going to do this. Never, never going to happen. Sort of, you know, shoot myself down there. But there was always that thing in me that goes like, get up, cut it out, you know, get up and get on with it. And so wherever that comes from, maybe that's, but that's the kind of hairpin I am as well. It's just the guy that says, okay, I'm going to show you something then. So God bless you. Thank you for, you know,

for messing with me. I also feel like so many of the things that, um, the opposition that comes against us, like, at least I think in my journey, so many rejections, so many no's, so many closed doors. Um, I know in acting that's like,

A Tuesday. But in entrepreneurship, oh, my gosh, the number of no's. And I feel like I feel like I, through all of them, got strong enough to carry the weight of success because that also comes with a whole lot of stuff that, you know, it comes with a whole lot of other things.

or problems or whatever. But I've always thought that like, okay, you know, it's happening for me. And I used to pray. I used to thank God for the open doors and for the closed doors and just trust, like trust that he'll block my value from people who aren't assigned to my destiny, you know? And like anytime someone would just like not believe in the company or think I don't have what it takes or whatever, I'd be like, okay,

instead of being like, oh, this is never going to happen for me. I'd be like, okay, God's blocking my value from them because they're not supposed to be my investor. They're not supposed to be my partner. They're not supposed to, I'm not supposed to go in that store right now or whatever it might be. And I feel like that perspective, um, almost like how, almost like the meaning we assigned to it can change, can change everything. Blocking my value. Yeah. Um, so you, um,

you praise your kids and profess your pride, uh, for each of them in this book. And you also say, um, in case they don't know this, which is quite possible, they can read it here. Yeah. Tell me, tell me more. Uh, well, that came from a specific conversation I had with, uh, one of my kids about, you know, what it's like to be my daughter. And, uh,

She actually had said at one point, she said, you know, I just always wanted to be known as something other than just your daughter. And I said, well, you are. You are known for that. And I recognized in that a sort of a plea about one's own identity. You know, it's like I'm this person. And, yes, I bear your name. But I want to be known for what I am. And I get that. That's okay. I even applaud it.

It's an interesting mix to be involved in a relationship with one who has gone before, who happens to be your father, who has a reputation. And a reputation can cut in several ways.

it doesn't need to eclipse the person. And maybe, I didn't know what to say to her, but if she does know I'm proud of her, then she can at least read it here. It was really quite a specific say. You'll be able to look at this in the writing and go, oh, he does understand this was difficult. Oh, he does know that that's a challenge. Oh, and he is saying thank you for wanting to be in this business and doing the things that, following in your footsteps, it came out of that idea that

You know, and it can't be easy. And so it was just a nod to saying, I get it. I'm still your dad. I love you. And, you know, off you go. You still got to get pushed out of the nest and say, you know, you're on your own anyway and you've done a good job. Are you proud of all of your kids? Absolutely.

Absolutely. I've had moments when I've thought, well, you know, we all can shine a light on a few things and say, you know, maybe you're going to empower yourself more if you don't allow this thing to keep, you know, giving you hiccups. Because we all stub our toes. And, you know, and I've stubbed mine several times. But it's nice if you have a relationship with someone who has actually gathered some wisdom beforehand to trust it. I used to say to another one of my children, I used to say all the time, I'd say,

You don't always have to learn by experience. You can learn by example. So just think about it. So I don't know if that's ever worked out, but I still think there's value in that.

So many people, I think, if they haven't maybe been exposed to this before, they just think like, oh, if you're the kid of someone famous, you just have it easy. Yeah, that's not the truth. Not the truth. No. No. I mean, some things might be easy. Maybe you grew up well cared for. Maybe you didn't. Maybe they're self-involved. I was going to so-and-so's.

I was going to say a nastier word, but it's like, and that wasn't an easy ride. Maybe it was really a nightmare. You know, there's a lot of kids have been through stuff with big egos, people who have been through a lot. I mean, cause you know, no matter how much success a certain person has had, there's going to be moments when that slides. I mean, unless you're maybe Paul McCartney, I just think everyone just adores him because there's a reason. But in so many cases, you know, the, the,

The bloom leaves the rose, you know, whatever. And people are not so enchanted with what they do anymore. And that's a hard thing to slam into one day. And if they don't have real character, they can take it out on the people around them. And I mean, I've been tempted to do that. I mean, there have been moments when I thought, why isn't this working out? And I do my best not to, you know, visit my children with it. But it may be that I'm not available a little bit sometimes when things aren't going so well. I'm not really sure. I try. I try to be.

But I think it's foolish for us to judge what we think is privilege or someone's good fortune and not realize that maybe they deserve a little bit of good fortune in their lives. And I'm sure it came at quite a price sometimes. I think everybody gets there with their own nuance of damage. And that should be just respected. Everybody got here for a reason. Everybody has done well.

deserves it. You know? What kind of dad would you say that they would say you are? Um, well, I think, I think, I think most of my kids would say, you know, that I gave it a good try. I mean, I think that's what they'd say. I think my latest batch would probably, probably say my latest batch, my children with Kate, we have three, Kate, Gabe, and James. I think they would say, dad, dad's in it. Dad's in it with his whole heart. And, uh,

I'm mostly fun. They are scared of me, which is interesting. I'll blow my top once in a while. It's pretty interesting to see a young person just go. But that's usually kind of what you need them to do in that moment. Something has to be

I was given the gift of a great voice. I don't have to go slam a door too hard or do anything else to get attention. I've got a voice that is arresting, and that can usually stop people in their tracks, and a young person sometimes needs to be. My older kids, my eldest, Spencer, when she was born, I remember looking at her, looking at her little bassinet, thinking, oh, she's...

She's her own person already. She kind of has something in mind. So I'm not sure what Spence would say about that. I know we've been in and out of one another's lives, but there's a profound love there, and that's what I can rely on. There's a profound love in the book. That's what I did it for. That's what I've done all this for. And so hopefully it will bear some fruit. Mm-hmm.

There's a, you know, with parenting, it's interesting. I grew up with parents that worked so much that I always thought, oh, I'm going to be there all the time for my kids. And now I work so much. Kelsey, there's days I would rather work than do anything else. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm like repeating this. And recently my daughter said to me like, are you working again? And she's six. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so I feel like, I feel like every one of us

is on this journey of how do I grow and how do I become, you know, I guess the highest, Oprah would say the highest, truest expression of ourselves. Right. And, and, and when we,

You know, I think I bet you there's not a single parent listening that can ever be like, oh, I did it all perfect. You know what I mean? Delusional if you did. And I think, too, if we do it all perfect, then we raise kids that, you know, can't handle anything. Well, that's a really interesting thing. Yeah. And now it's.

This is as recent as I flew home from Texas after the first time I actually celebrated the book with a group of other people. It was two nights ago. And on the flight back, I thought, I wonder what it would be like to throw it all away now and choose the most courageous life I've ever lived and just be with my children. Yeah.

So it's still ongoing. It's still there. Because, yeah, they say, I'm starting this beer company. I've got to go away a lot for that. And I don't like going away. But I feel I'm drawn to do this. I feel like I'm supposed to do that and make that happen. But to live in true courage, I don't know. Maybe it would just be we're leaving L.A. We're going to go do something else. I don't know what that might be. But it would be to experience this life with them as a constant thing.

I don't know if it's the right life example, though, either. I don't know if that would be the right thing to show them. So Dad gave it all up for us. And then six years later, they're going to go, I'm out. But that's what I want them to do. They need to do that. They need to find their thing. And they're already working on it. I mean, we shepherd them some, but also we're kind of just, we're there to help them have as safe a launch as possible.

And also, what if... Yeah, maybe they're out in however many years, but also, what if it's for you? And what if it's for you and Kate doing that? Yeah. Yeah. It's so wild you just said that because I have the same thoughts. You know? I do. I think sometimes, like, I will tell my husband, like, what if we just...

We'll just move here and I'll just be home and not miss anything. Chuck all this. Yeah, exactly. And I have those thoughts. He would be so happy if I did that because we both did 100-hour weeks forever. Now, I'm still the one working this hard and he's good. He runs our family office. He works and he does all the things, but he would be... I think his fear...

is that I work too much. So I think like he would actually be so happy, but I actually have the same thoughts. I'm like, am I getting it wrong? Because also, I don't know if you ever struggle with this, but I struggle with this. Like, cause I know if you have creativity in you and it's unexpressed, it can express itself in other things and other ways that are not good. All the things like it can. So it's like, if you know, if God put this in me and I'm supposed to, this was my offering creatively in the world. Right. But at the

same time, but at the same time, I'm like, am I missing out on the things that actually matter? Because also when is it enough? Which is actually a question I have for you too, is do you ever, do you ever like struggle with that? Because it's like, you look at everything you've accomplished. I mean,

And I've had people say that to me. They're like, oh, you know, you've built this huge business. You've done this, you've done that. These awards, this, that. And then I ask myself, am I like, am I thinking I have to keep achieving to feel worthy? And so how do you reconcile that? It's interesting. The same battle is for me is...

We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy.

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the kick in the rear end that you deserve. Jamie's Bookworthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com. And now more of this incredible conversation together. Question I have for you too is, do you ever, do you ever like struggle with that? Because it's like, you look at everything you've accomplished. I mean,

And I've had people say that to me. They're like, oh, you know, you've built this huge business. You've done this, you've done that. These awards, this, that. And then I ask myself, am I like, am I thinking I have to keep achieving to feel worthy? And so how do you reconcile that? It's interesting. The same battle is for me is, is did you leave anything sort of in the background? Did you, did you skip something?

Because we got just this set of time, whatever it is. And that was the other question that came with it. But why haven't you had the balls to go out and start a music career? Because I love music. And that's the first thing that got me into this. Why did you step away from it? Why did you not just say, oh, I'm going to go be a composer now?

So I've still got the still dancing in there and I don't want to leave anything undone. So there is that other thing, but maybe that's, and I started thinking, so why don't I write a song with my kids? Why don't I do music with them? So I don't know. And would that be the courageous thing to do? I mean, maybe I should chuck all this and then go do spend my life in the studio with the kids. I don't know. These things just crop up because it's,

to do what he's given unto you, it's like, well, I've got something there that I still think, well, maybe I should be doing that. I've written a bunch of songs and maybe somebody should hear them. I don't know. I should have the true courage, but I've always talked myself out of it thinking it wasn't quite good enough.

And there's that old bugaboo. With your music? Yeah. Maybe it's supposed to be sort of just a hobby. I don't know. But it was the first thing that called to me when I was a kid. That was the first thing. That surprises me because it feels like on the outside that you've gone for everything else. Pretty much a half, yeah.

There's the one thing that maybe it's just too personal. I don't know. There's still that part that doesn't like to be told it wasn't good enough. I don't know. So we'll see. So that's the, that's the one thing. And then also the, do I go all in scrap everything and just be fully immersed in family? And then that's so, I think our, I think our, it'd be, well, yeah, it'd be neat to find that sort of family mission. That'd be kind of fun. But I,

I'm okay. I feel like I'm doing all right. You know, that there's still more to try, more to explore, and to cherish your children. I mean, I do cherish them. They're quite wonderful, even in moments when I think, how can I help them? I'm at a loss a lot of the time. You know, how can I actually help them without, you know, doing damage? You know, I'm thinking of the movie Patton now. George C. Scott's standing in the middle of a... There's a battle scene, and he says, "'War!'

compared to all other human endeavors, shrinks to insignificance. I mean, all other human endeavors shrink to insignificance in the face of war. And I thought, boy, that's certainly a warrior's way of looking at things. But there is something to be said about it, something to be said for that. And, of course, war is Satan's invention. And we're born here. We're born into—I mean, I've learned this lately about, you know,

We are born into a kind of warfare, and we have to fight for the good. What do you mean by that? It's a realm in which we are assigned to come here and fight for our identity, fight for our freedoms, fight for our faith. It's not supposed to be for the faint of heart, even though Jesus tells us the meek shall inherit the earth. It's a

It's a hostile environment sometimes. And just another one of those sermons I heard where it said, you know, Jesus doesn't promise us an easy journey, just a safe landing. Yeah, I get it. Because it's, you know, you got to do your part too.

Do you ever struggle with how much of your real life to share publicly when for in your professional life you most often play different characters or, you know, you have a celebrity persona? Do you ever feel like you have to hide anything?

Or do you feel more like this is who I am? Yeah. And we should all be who we are? I don't tend to hide a lot. But there are certain things I won't just share with people because it's like too much information. But if I'm trying to impart like something that's honest, it has to be from me. It has to be the truth. Yeah. You know, what I've observed, what I've thought about. I love the idea that there's... And this took years to finally figure out. But lying is so uncomfortable. And once you start to lie...

you have to remember it. And I don't like having to, like, be... What did I say exactly? So now I know that if I tell the truth in the moment, if anybody ever wants to call me up again, well, it was the truth, so it's going to be the same story. Yeah. And so...

It's a great way of sort of discarding the misery of trying to cover your, you know, whatever, cover your tracks. Yeah. And then you don't have to. So that somebody's like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what you said 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm honest. Yeah. Writing truth in the book was very important to me.

to make sure that every bit was true. And as do people, you know, people do offer interrogatories to me about the book or a certain section or something, I'll say, oh, that reminds me of something that's a little bit different, but then they'll say, yeah, that's what you said. Yeah. So I like not having to cover up. Yeah. It's okay. It's freeing. And the acting question is, it was always a great gift to know it was the place where you didn't have to lie at all.

Acting is, you know, the misconception being that actors are good liars. They aren't actually. They're only good if it sounds like they're telling the truth, which means they are telling the truth. Right. It's just with somebody else's mask who was given you by a writer or given you by a great playwright or whatever. So you've got this veneer that allows you to tell the truth, the absolute truth, to be completely uncovered. Because if you aren't, then it's going to feel like you're not doing a very good job.

You know, with all this stuff about who you are and being out there in the public and all this stuff, you're really, you've been maybe more so lately, I don't know, but you've been sharing a lot of your views publicly, you know, like about faith and about politics and everything else. I saw at Mar-a-Lago, like there's pictures everywhere. Oh, yeah, yeah. We went down and there was, it was a...

A fundraiser for dogs. A fundraiser for dogs. Yeah. Okay. Kimberly Guilfoyle was there, though. Yeah. And she's sort of the chair of it for this particular event. So we took the kids and we had a nice time. It was lovely. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I've been a conservative. I've been a conservative for a long time in Hollywood. Yeah. You know, it's just my core values are basically...

are live and let live. And I think that's what the conservative message is. And, you know, some people might disagree with me, but the other guys lately, it tends to be, you know, you will live as you're told. And that just closes out of town for me. Well, you're like you...

maybe, maybe I have this wrong. I'm just talking as a regular person on the outside. I don't know if it's just more lately, but yeah, I see you in the kind of in the press and online and stuff more active with politics. Yeah. Um, there was a part of me that thought maybe I'm supposed to do something in that world. Maybe that's coming up. Maybe, I mean, maybe I'm, I'm old enough now to kind of maybe handle that and do it without too much ego and

really try to do the world some good. Maybe that's the place that I'm being pulled. I don't know. Do you feel that? I have in my past. Yeah. But it's a big commitment. Yes. But you want to do the world some good and you want to save people. And this is all about saving people in the end. And I think...

I think that might be a direction. I don't know. Do you think you'll run for office? I don't know. It's circling back. I rejected it 20 years ago. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. We'll see. Maybe. So when you're at Mar-a-Lago, I think you spoke out about your support of Donald Trump in his first election. Yeah, I did. A lot of what Donald Trump was saying just aligned more with what I think about

the direction a government should take, that it should be for the people. I do believe he means that. And so that's in demonstration. I've seen that. That's what a lot of politicians say. But the people yelling and screaming about money and stuff like that tend to be politicians. And I'm thinking, why are you so upset? What is it you're losing? Why are you a rich person in Congress? I have real issues about that.

I think if you go to Washington rich, fine. But if you got rich being in Washington, you should be out. Adios. You know, it was designed to be you go for one term as a congressman. One. Some guy from the neighborhood goes for two years and comes back and some other guy goes. Or gal. Whatever. Whomever. And you don't stay there. And you go be a senator. Great. Go for six years.

Maybe you're a little wiser, maybe you're a little bit older. The energy of Congress, of the House of Representatives is immediate, in the moment, and what people need right then. And the senators are meant to say, "Well, let's slow down a little bit. Let's think about it. Maybe that's a good idea, maybe it isn't. Maybe we need to balance it with this." Okay, that made sense to me. You get to stay for one term. And George Washington stayed for two.

That was it, executive branch, a little guidance. Yeah, you can appoint judges for a lifetime because that's what they're good at. Okay. And they balance it in terms of squaring things with the originalist vision of what it is, and that's all for the people. But yeah, I walked into Washington, D.C. recently for the dedication of the World War I monument. Mm-hmm.

And it's a beautiful, beautiful piece. It took them over 100 years to do it, to get one there. And they've done other monuments for other wars that I was celebrating the sacrifice. But when I walked it, I took five minutes to walk from the hotel I was in to go over to where the presentation was being made. Three people in five minutes walked up to me and handed me a card and said, hi, I'm a lobbyist. And I just thought, you do not belong here. Hmm.

I have some real issues about it. I don't like it. Whenever the car turns off and I'm standing still at a red light, I'm thinking, what congressman got this passed? What guy is making money on this? Because somebody got paid to do this. Because when I grew up, they said if your car stops and restarts all the time, you're just spending more fuel. So I thought, who conned them into thinking this is saving money?

Why do we have 10% corn fuel in our gasoline? Who from the Corn Belt made some money on that? So I look on big government with a real jauntest eye. Do you feel like if you went to Washington having already had success, you would be less likely to be swayed by anything? Yeah, I mean, I think there's definitely a...

There's an older man's game in Washington, D.C. that I think needs to be played well, wisdom being the important asset that you would bring. But if you're worried about, yeah, if there's something on the table, if there's a kickback coming, I mean, we are finding out, of course, now through a lot of people that there's some stuff been going on that isn't good. And I'm very glad that Donald Trump is there at this point sort of engineering at least an uncovering of that.

Whether or not we're going to cover it all back up and go back to it, I fear that that might happen. But I do fear that that's the end of the U.S. And I don't want that to happen. In what way? We can't afford what we're doing. Nobody can be that corrupt and continue. We are not meant to. If that's what we're doing with the money we're making, if that's what we're doing, and it's actually coming back to the government, it's actually feeding those guys, it's supposed to be selfless.

and to volunteer to make sure we're saving the people, save the people of the United States, not Washington, D.C. That's my two cents. When you talk about senators and you talk about how long people are in Washington, there's so much talk about should a president ever be able to do more than two terms. Well, only FDR thought he was worth it. And everybody else just voluntarily just said no.

Which two? Because Washington set the precedent. George Washington was pretty much the greatest American who ever lived. There's still no question about it. And it was always about, like, when he gave up his sword, when he said, when he resigned his commission in the military, when he said, no, the leader of the country should not be a member of the military. That's inappropriate. These things that came from his sense of conviction were passed on to us as a country. And that was a great, great gift.

When George Washington, too, and like having such absolute power, but then saying, oh, I'm actually going to, this is what's best for the country, for someone else to step in, not for someone to. Absolutely. Yeah. Fresh blood. Do you, if, so I have to ask you this, because if I didn't ask you, this will be the thing everyone's thinking right now. So I'm just going to ask it to you. It's just all over the news right now. But if Trump says that he wants a third term, would you support that? No. No. No.

That's not what we do. I was in shock. I mean, I'm still in shock that Franklin Roosevelt was elected for a third term. I guess it was a wartime thing. I don't know. I thought that was really irresponsible. Yeah. I still look at it. It's like, what were you doing?

What did you think about yourself that you thought that was something you should do? I still have questions for him. I'd like to ask him one day. Maybe I will. Yeah, you will. So when you say to that, you think that you support Donald Trump, obviously over half the country agrees with you. And do you feel like he's doing a good job? Yeah, actually I do. With them, when you...

I think what's so fascinating to me is when you walk into Washington or you're driving your car and it shuts off and starts or you're in Mar-a-Lago that you have the, I guess would you call them whispers, that you could do a good job in that role. Honestly, I don't know. When I was a little boy, I wanted to be the president. Yeah? When I was a kid, I used to say to my mom, I want to grow up to be president. But I was taught, you know, that's the kind of country we live in. Any kid can become president if they believe in it.

And I still believe that's basically true. When we were talking earlier, I was talking about the American dream. The American dream is a given. It's there. What I don't like hearing from my politicians is it's over. The American dream's over. I said, well, how did we get to that place? Why would you want to lower our expectations that much that you're now saying to me, well, we can't give you that. But what we can give you is we can make sure that somebody else's dream is smaller. I don't care for that.

You know, you're so convicted in your beliefs and your values. You talk about this in Karen, which is out now. I love understanding also the humans that make up humanity. I think people are so scared right now to share how they feel or what they believe. Or, you know, I think like people have been, I think, I think for the past decade,

I would say at least five to 10 years, teachers have been scared to share how they feel in the classroom. And people have been scared that they're going to say the wrong thing or get something wrong or be accused of something that they totally didn't intend to do. And I think everyone's just walking around on eggshells. And in the book, I really feel like we're with you and we understand you and understand your thoughts and what you believe. And you talk a lot about your values in there too. You know, you talk about...

I think it was six months before Karen passed when you were with a girlfriend and, and you had an abortion and broke my heart. My heart is broken about it to this day at the time. Has it, has your, has its impact on you changed over time or the meaning you see it as changed over time versus when you were 18? When I was 18, uh,

I just didn't think I had any rights. I didn't think I had any right to say anything. And that was, you know, that's concurrent with a lot of the way people think a lot today. But if two people are involved in creating a child, then I think maybe two people should be involved in whether or not they're going to make that choice to take the life, to end it, or to embrace it and say, okay, we're going to do this. We made this together. I think all things, the most important thing about children

connecting sexually with someone is to understand that you have consequences that you can either avoid or not avoid, but you need to know going in that you're making a decision that might actually have life-changing consequences. And I think we should tease her. There was a great special on years ago that I saw. It was a documentary about three boys were sat in a room and they played recordings of the same thing that eight girls were saying. And they just listened to them.

And the question was, who's the most attractive girl? And the three boys identified almost all. And there were, I think, two girls that were the most attractive girls to them. Those two girls were ovulating. No one could quite figure that out. But that's a very powerful thing about life and the way this whole thing was designed. So a girl who was ready to be impregnated was, to them, sounded like the most attractive person.

That's a power that a young man needs to be advised about to understand that you are in the dance as this energy that's responding to the imperative to procreate. That's saying you want to procreate. If you don't want to, do not have sex. Now, we've gone against that. We've gone against that a lot in terms of...

You know, the society, as we've played it out these days, kids should have sex. You go out and have it. But there's a consequence there. And so I just think we should teach our boys that, well, maybe you should be responsible about it. You know, we don't. But it has changed a bit. Now it's, well, you can always just go take care of it after the fact rather than be a gentleman before the fact, which is either you don't do certain things.

You experiment with other things. You put on a condom. You behave like a gentleman. And you don't put yourself in that position. A lot of people don't seem to think that's worth teaching anymore, and I don't know why. But look, everybody's entitled to their way of thinking about it, but I just think, why would you make a series of choices that has to end that way when you know you can actually make better choices? I guess my advice would be to make better choices. Who wants to have to have that on their head?

Who actually goes through life thinking, oh, that's what I want to do. Do you still think about it? About when you were 18? Yeah. I wrote about it. Yeah. I would never ask you, but you just, it's in the book. Yeah. No, I wrote about it. I mean, it's, it's, it's, I'm sitting there and it came from Karen. It was, we were sitting there and I was, I was writing about being in Gordon's hospital room. And then Karen came and said, you have to take, you have to take care of something. You need to clean something up, purge something.

She said, leave us together with Gordon for now and go back to New York with Jill. It's all in there. So you revisited it for that reason. Yeah. And you're very clear how you feel about it in the book. It's been on my mind. It's been on my heart. It's been on my heart for a long time. For you to talk about your own experience.

experience with it, how it's impacted you emotionally, how you feel now today. I have friends that are very pro-choice and friends that are very pro-life and they have, many of them have had abortions. And I watch now, I'm 47 and I've been in conversations where they've been in therapy a

about it and dealing with it in very different ways. And sometimes the way you might feel about it in one phase of life changes into another phase of life. And why I wanted to bring it up is this isn't something people talk about. So when I think about the number of people that are going to be listening or watching right now that have had this experience as well, and maybe they've never told anybody, not even their partner, nobody, but they're dealing with it internally.

I just want to call this out because I think that the journey that the reader is going to go on in your book, I think, yes, it's this honoring of a joy and light that is your sister, Karen. It's your own journey to where you're at now with it and with your relationship with her in your life. But it's also the reader's journey and their own personal life. It is my hope that

When people read what I've written and exposed and uncovered about my own life, I wanted to actually comfort any woman, any mother who's lost a child, anyone who's lost a child. Everybody that's been through what we're talking about here has experienced a loss. Whether or not they want to acknowledge it or fight it or they're angry about it or angry that someone would say, you know, I don't look down my nose at anybody that's had an abortion. I don't. I feel...

Sad about it for people where before I used to think well, yeah Of course you have the right to do whatever you want to do with your body. I do believe that The consequences of another body being stopped from living is always, you know consequence war warfare abortion They all ask the same question. Is it was that did I do the right thing? And I think a lot of people

struggle with it and my heart goes out to them. I mean, this is not a condemnation book either. It's not a grief book. It's also not a condemnation book. It's a, we are left with it sometimes. It's a, you know, we wrestle with it as a society. And I wouldn't give us much of a chance at all if we weren't wrestling with it. I haven't talked about this. The moment I went with Jill, this is some time ago, of course, there were four guys sitting in there

Nobody was happy. No guy was happy there. And then one of the girls came out who had just finished her procedure, and she sort of hopped out and said, well, that's taken care of. And it was just, there was like a collective moment of what seemed like deep sadness between these four young men who were all on a journey that they didn't mean to be on, you know. And nobody feels good about ending a life. I don't think they do. So, you know.

That's my, that's where I come from. And the consequence of, you know, what we do to ourselves, what we haunt ourselves with these ideas that maybe are my action, took my sister's life. That was, that was horrible. I did go through that for a while and I've dismissed it, you know, because like I said in the book, I said, God, God doesn't do it tit for tat that way. It doesn't actually work that way. Only man would think of that. And that's, you know, that's the enemy is, you know,

Always out there too. And you got to remember that the enemy is present to invade our thoughts, to invade our lives, to kill our minds with doubt and fear. And you mentioned, you know, so much fear going on. I'm reading a book right now, Power Positive Thinking, Norman Vincent Peale, published in 51, 52, something like that. And there's a whole, I just came upon a section where it said, the primary thing right now is to keep people in fear.

1950, whatever. It's been going on for a long time. This is, this is the warfare that we're born into fear and fear is the mind killer. Fear is a soul killer. That's how you get in there. That's where I go again. I want to call something that you just said to you, because I wondered this when I read the book and, uh,

I wasn't going to ask you this, you know, but I wondered. We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy. Thank you.

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I want to call something out you just said too, because I wondered this when I read the book and, um, I wasn't going to ask you this, you know, but I wondered, and, and so you're sharing that a little bit about this. Um, and I guess you talk a little bit about it, but

our humanness wants to think that if something bad happened to us in our life, it's our fault or it's because we did something and now this is karma or we did something and now God's punishing us. And when you just mentioned that, that

having an abortion at age 18. And six months later, this tragedy happens with the loss of your sister's life. And so when did you have those thoughts like, oh, is this because of what I did? Was that like, was that immediately? Instantly. Yeah. Yeah.

You said God is not tit for tat. No. No. That's the end. That other guy is. That's reminding me of another thing. This is the way life goes for me. I see these things. That Twilight Zone thing where the guy is walking along. He's died. He goes to the pearly gates, and he's got his dog with him. And he says, is this it? And St. Peter says, yeah. Yeah, come on in. He says, my dog can come? He says, no. He says, oh, well, then.

Oh, that's okay then. I think I'll just keep walking a bit. So he keeps walking. He takes his dog with him and comes along another set of gates. He says, what's this? St. Peter says, welcome. Really? I can come on? I can bring my dog too? He says, yeah, of course. He said, well, a fellow down the road. He said he was St. Peter. He said, I couldn't bring my dog. He said, oh, that's the other place. So, yeah, that's the other guy does that.

isn't it wild that it's everywhere now, whether you're a politician or, I mean, I have friends call me all the time or people reaching out online for advice because, you know, they're a lawyer. They didn't want a public profile ever. They're a doctor. They didn't want a public profile, but now they're, everything's online. And then they get reviews on these sites and they don't even know who's writing those reviews. And then it's just like everything now, I almost feel like you, and I feel like

you can barely, like if you do anything at all, it's going to come with so much criticism in 2025. And I feel like, you know, I think about growing up when someone was mad about something, they wrote a letter and maybe someone saw that letter. Now it's like,

You know, do you remember like even, you know, there would be food critics and they'd, you know, built trust for decades with their craft to write a review of a restaurant. And now it's sort of like everyone is, you know, it's just so different. There's a guy, there was a critic, John Simon was his name. He wrote, he began writing maybe in the mid 70s and through maybe 2000. And he was so mean to people.

personally mean to people, actors that he didn't like. He just called them fat or, you know, you're disgusting. And it became entertaining to see what nastiness he would conjure up in his next review. But it became stylish to write that way. He set a new kind of style that maybe was born out of the 70s, maybe was born out of what was going on in the 80s. I don't really know what happened. But it became...

It became the norm. It became the norm to be mean to people. And I thought that's, it was just, it was such a wrong turn, I think. And I do sort of put it at his feet. I mean, you know, theater critics are known for being sort of, you know, no turn on stoned. You know, that was sort of one of their things. But to do it charmingly, the British are a little bit better about doing it charmingly. This guy was directly personal and nasty. Yeah.

And I thought, boy, that really changed things. To dial back on one thing, about a year and a half ago, somebody said, if you were president, what would you do differently? What would you want to do? I said, I would ask that we become a nation of good manners again. I just think we need to treat each other better, speak better to one another, honorifically, respect each other, whether we come from different sides, and respect.

And just reinstate mannerly behavior, even in our kids, you know, shoes off the couch. My wife always points out, she says, she watches Disney shows where the kids jump up and down on a bed with their shoes on. I'm thinking, yeah, you're right. That's awful. How did we let that happen? But it's like there was a whole generation that was sort of broken into this idea that you just treat everything you have with disrespect. But if you respect nothing, you certainly won't respect yourself.

Somehow this thing has happened, and I feel like even more so in the past couple years now that so much is online, where you're vilified if you're around someone who believes different than you do or votes different or loves different or identifies different, whatever it might be. And it's like people just get... And I just feel like what makes me... And now I have five families I've adopted. It's a whole long story. But, you know...

There's times where people can't talk about politics or Thanksgiving will end. And it's interesting that, you know, I just feel like if we have a shot at healing humanity through love, you can't do that if you don't understand the humans that make it up. And if you only spend time around people who believe what you believe, how can you ever...

help heal humanity. And one of the things I'm most proud of just in my life and my family on this show is just really extending not only the good manners, but just love, actual love, whether someone believes what you believe or don't or any of that. Cause it's like, how else are we going to

ever loved them for the opposition yeah yeah yeah that's it well i'll circle back to the book i talk about that thing there was a restaurant nearby where one of the places i live that said hate is not welcome here i thought well you just you just said to people you don't welcome hate but you've written it all over your restaurant how about love is invited

Love is welcome here instead of this hate thing. I thought well, okay Whatever your reason is, but if you're in the thrall of hatred if you are in its charming way You will never do anything but pave yourself the road to destruction

Hate will kill you. All the data proves this. It's like if you go around looking for what's wrong in everyone else, you're also so much more likely to only see what's wrong in yourself. And that is not very fun because I'll speak for myself. There's a lot wrong with me. So like it's so but but it's so contagious where you can sit with somebody, even if whether you totally agree on everything or you don't, whatever. And you like just see the beauty in them.

it's like you're so much more likely to see the beauty in yourself. And like when you see God in them, just all of it. It's just like, it's sort of like the secret to, it's a secret to success in many ways, or at least to a lot more happiness in life. You know, it's not very fun to,

And like, I just feel so bad for people right now that spend all their time like attacking everyone online. Cause it's like, that's just such a, you know, energies can be so contagious. Can't be a nice way to live. Yeah. Not a very nice way to live. Um, today, what brings you the most joy? Kids. It's kind of it. That's, uh, that's it. Maybe that's why I said living in true courage would be to just to be, to live my life with them. I have to live my life too, though. You know, it's interesting. You got to do one or the other and, you know, take, you know.

put the mask on yourself first before you put it on the kid, you know? Yeah. Seeing you both walk in though, both you and Kate, you and I are meeting for the first time. Yeah. And so I'm off on another track all of a sudden. Kirstie Alley, when I was going to do my first appearance on The Tonight Show, Kirstie Alley said, oh, just go on and play a character. Just go, you know, just make up something and just have fun. And I thought,

Okay. And she was kind of like that. She was always sort of entertaining. Kirstie was, you know, keep a lot of hats in the air and say you can't spot you. You know, and she was such a wonderful person and so funny. But when she said that, I thought to myself, I don't think I have the energy to be able to do that. I think I just have to be able to be honest. So that's what I've always been. I've been as honest as I can be. Once in a while I'll watch an appearance and think, oh, well, did I do that right? It doesn't really matter because I didn't do it.

I didn't dissemble, at least. I didn't have to cover myself in any way. So it's easier. If there's some specific question I'm not comfortable with, I won't answer it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then you're okay. Okay. That was it. I'm sorry. It feels like freedom when you're yourself. And so many people wonder, this is just my theory on this. And there is data that backs us up, but there's so many people that wonder why they feel lonely or why they feel disconnected or why they feel all these things. But yet so many of us, we were people pleasers or we show up as our representative or the person we think we need to be to like ace this thing or,

sit in the boardroom or wear the lab coat or whatever it might be. And, and, and it's like all the data says when we show up as our representative, it's not who you fully, truly are. It's like impossible to have a true connection, you know, with another person in real life versus when you're just like,

this, you know, cause how can you be loved if you're your represent, like, how can you feel that true, I guess, back to the quantum entanglement, uh, you know, like the essence exchange, right? Like the exchange of essence. And then you're, you're, you have that connection. What are they, what are they falling in love with? If you're, if you're misrepresenting who you are, you know, if you're, if you're playing out something that you think is more attractive, I mean, we all try to be attractive. I get that. But what do you get? What are you offering?

you know, is it a sham? So you don't really want it to be. Yeah. But, you know, I think what's interesting is there's a willingness now to open up to the idea that, yeah, you represent who you are and you are, if you have a conservative bent, you're right.

you're okay. That seems to be circulating more now than ever before. And that's kind of a nice thing. I get so angry about this, but you know, so, so, cause I just feel Kelsey, I feel like the quickest way to dole ourselves down is to not be open and not be so curious and to not want to understand. And by the way, this is just my opinion, but anyone in Hollywood who wants to make money on their film and wants all the things I feel like I'll just, I'll just speak for myself. I feel like,

By the time I made it on QVC where I was able to share our products with, I mean, QVC broadcast live to 100 million homes. I felt like what came with me to that moment was all,

All of my experience of understanding all different kinds of people, because that's who my customer is. That's who's watching. It's every type of person, whether they're Republican or Democrat, whether they're, you know, whatever their background. And like, I remember, I remember praying before my first airing. And I remember thinking like, what's coming with me is,

My five families, and by the way, they're very divided politically. They have so many different experiences. My day's waitressing tables, and I feel like our steps are ordered in life. I feel like by the time I got my one shot on QVC, I felt like I knew who was at home because I felt like I had had enough life experience to understand whether she felt this way or that way. I felt like I was able to understand everything.

to the best of my ability at that point, all kinds of women that were going to buy this product. And so it's like, when I think about Hollywood or any profession, I would want

to understand and have, you know, a team made up of different kinds of people, even if, you know, in the past they don't bring on, you know, conservative leaning or whatever. It's like, if you're going to understand your audience watching this movie and you're going to like, you want to understand humans, you want to like have that insight, whether you're a writer, a director, a producer. And I would never, I would never close the door on another person's gifts or talents because

Because I think they might not agree with me on something. Yeah. That's pathetic. Yeah. Well, when you produce and when you do things, do you bring on people no matter their political views? Absolutely. Yeah. It doesn't even cross my mind. Yeah. Yeah. If someone has exposed themselves as being a narrow-minded person, I might find that unattractive and say, I'd rather work with somebody else. But that's...

That's a whole different thing. That's a very specific thing. Okay. Something exciting that was just announced, that you're playing Beast in Avengers Doomsday. Can you tell us just about that and how long are you in makeup? Oh, well. And just the whole thing. They do it differently now. Oh. I mean, when I did Beast 20 years ago, I had three and a half hours to get into it. Yeah. And I'd sit around a long time. Yeah.

Sort of like this. I'd watch golf, whatever, and then finally I'd get called to set and they were throwing, flying, you know, burning cars across the scene. It was a lot of fun, but I love the character. I love his, he is a stalwart, upright, serious-minded, decent man. And that's what I love about him. I think of him as being the Martin Luther King of the mutants, you know. He's just got a dignity and a dream.

and is willing to fight for it. But slow to action in terms of fighting. He will always find every way he can not to have to fight. And then when it's the last possible response, then it's swift and severe, give no quarter, expect none. And I like that about him. I feel like it's who I am. And so when I got the chance to play Beast the first time,

I thought, wow, this is really, I love this guy. And so I want to play, I've always wanted to play him again. We did a cameo appearance in the Marvels about, I guess it came out almost two years ago now. And the response was pretty, pretty big, pretty, pretty positive. And like, oh my God, it's Beast. You know, it's, they, they did the, you know, they had the younger guy come on and play Beast for a couple. And, uh,

I was a little crestfallen over that. I thought, oh, gee whiz. But I'm really looking forward to it because I think he's a man of real stature, and that's what I intend to bring to him, of ethical conduct. He's a man who studies good and does his best to live by that, and I like that.

You know what's so interesting just about our conversation to me is I've watched you tear up talking about your sister, your wife Kate, your kids, and then just now about Beast, about how much you care about that role. I was not expecting this. I'm watching your whole eyes change right now. Yeah, I like him. It's a great thing to be able to play someone you like. It's cool. I think he's a standout character. Yeah.

That's probably why fans reacted so exciting that you're doing the role because like it's so clear. Yeah, he's the guy who's the guy who's the guy who'd want working for you. It's the guy you'd want to be in the position he's in. What does it mean to you? You know, goodness is the key to life. Love is the way.

Love is the way. For someone listening right now who's like, oh, is the book Karen for me? What would you say to them? Yes, I would say you will discover yourself again, I think, because I think the things I learned as a boy are pretty universal. And you will discover a magnificent young woman that you wish you'd known, but now you do. Yeah. Hmm.

And what a journey to discover yourself again. Also. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I'm glad I came.

I didn't even know if you'd laugh that I got you cocktail onions because of the book. I love cocktail onions. And you opened them and you're already eating them. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely perfect. That is a first on the Jamie Kern Lima show. That is a first. Very cool. I did read the book aloud. I've recorded it now. Yeah. Kate actually said, I said, honey, are you going to read the book? And she said, I'm really excited to read it as soon as you record it. I think that's why she's going to enjoy it. But I realized as I read it that...

You'll fill in more blanks if you don't listen to me reading it. I don't want to influence people not to, but I'd really like them to read it as well as maybe listen to it because you're going to have a more personalized journey with me out of the way than the recording will give you. Oh, interesting. I hate to say that about myself, but I really think the words are...

Words are so interesting that they work inside your head. And when I say them, I've sort of forced you to think of them a certain way. - Interesting. - Yeah, so I would recommend doing both. - Doing both, yeah. A lot of people love that. They'll have the book and they'll listen to the audio while they're reading it. And they feel like it just is a whole visceral experience. - There's a chemistry that happens with you and the written word. It's just deeply personal.

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You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show here. I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, and

Journey toward your calling and stay as long as you'd like because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love. I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show. Oh my gosh. You know, that journey to believe you're actually worthy of something.

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Hi, I'm Jamie Kern Lima and I went from struggling waitress facing nonstop rejection to building a billion dollar company from my living room. And it's not because I'm smarter than anyone else. I didn't have the right connections, but I figured out how to believe in myself and how to believe my dreams are possible and believe that I'm worthy of them. And what I know for sure is that you too.

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doesn't have to determine where you're going. I know and believe you can go from underestimated to unstoppable. You can go from doubting yourself to trusting yourself, to believing in yourself and to loving yourself. Even if

even if it's for the first time ever or for the first time in a long time. It's your time. Today is your day and this is your show. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

So come as you are, stay as long as you'd like, heal where you need, blossom what you choose because you belong here. You exactly as you are, are a miracle in motion, a mighty force for good. You are a masterpiece. I see you, I believe in you, I love you, you are worthy.

And right now I have one question for you. What would you do if you fully believed in you? Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show. ♪

It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.