Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast and the fourth installment of our very special episodes that we're going to be having for you this summer. You've listened to three of them. This is the fourth one. And not that we're saving the best for last, but we may well have. Media Mavens.
and media icons. These are people that have just changed the way we think, the way we see the news, the way we look at science. Robin Doolittle joins us today. She is an investigative reporter and an author. And boy, this young woman is
has got such upright future. She's so interesting. I really love talking to her. Zaya Tong, author of The Reality Bubble. She makes science. She makes climate change. She makes things that are happening in
in space, accessible to people like me who don't always get it. She is so interesting. She's so kind. She's an animal advocate. And if you haven't read that book, The Reality Bubble, you must. Zaya Tong's with us today.
Um, Meredith Shaw, she's a staple of the social, the Marilyn Dennis show. She's a fashion fashionista. I guess we call them these days. She is an amazing, amazing person. And she used to be, and she still is very much involved kind of in music and singing. And she's got a hell of a voice.
And last and not least, certainly, Mary Berg, who made her way to fame on MasterChef Canada and has really carved out a phenomenal career for herself writing cookbooks. I think she's on her third cooking show that they are so successful. All these women join us today on Media Mavens. Don't go away. Stay tuned for this special episode of the Jan Arden Podcast.
As a young person, Robin, I'm really struck by the fact that here's your you're in your 20s. And you're like, I'm going into investigative reporting. So just a little bit of background. Is that the direction you wanted to go? Or was it just happenstance? Like, it was it just this is this is an opportunity I have this is happening right now. This is what I'm going to do.
Yeah, that's such a good question because it is one of the first things young journalists ask me all the time. You know, how do I get into investigative journalism? I want to be an investigative journalist. And the thing that I tell them, especially when they're in their really early 20s,
is what editors told me, which is don't, don't do that. Not for a long time. This is not the time in your early twenties to be doing investigative journalism. You want to be covering, you know, general assignments, which is just the day's events. Anything can be thrown at you. You want to be covering beats like,
police beat, city hall beat, um, getting a real feel for, for the business, writing as many stories as you can. So back when I was doing, you know, the Rob Ford stuff, I was not an investigative reporter. I was a city hall municipal politics reporter. And the Rob Ford investigation is something that I, I sort of chipped away at over the course of several years, uh,
More on slow news days. I know it sounds crazy to think back to that time and not think it was like totally consumed with that side of Rob Ford, but there was a big politics story happening in the city of Toronto when he was mayor and just the internal conflicts happening. So the long answer to your short question is that I got into this kind of more the old fashioned way, which is that on a beat,
You take your extra time, maybe your weekends, your evenings, and do it on the side. And that's what I recommend to young journalists to do. That's the best way to get into it.
Even starting there, which was a really, really big story. I remember the, and you probably get sick of talking about it ad nauseum. Okay, good. I haven't talked about it in quite a long time. Actually, the first couple of years I was like, please no one bring up Rob Ford, but now it's enough times past. I think, I think when we saw, you know, the mayor of a Canadian city appearing on late night talk shows in the United States and
And then of course the famous video that you really kind of, I guess you could call it took apart. My dog is crying to go out the door. Welcome to welcome to real life.
I'll just show you where she is. She wants to go out this door and she won't stop moaning until she goes there. Well, you better definitely listen to a dog when they're asking to go outside. Otherwise, the rest is on you. Well, you could end up with a turd in your kitchen. A little mess. So, you know, you've got to be on it. Yeah. But yeah, so Rob Ford is now, he's, you know, making the rounds on late night talk shows and we're all just up in Canada cringing. But you had such a, like, to sit back, did you take a lot of criticism, I guess is what I'm trying to say about...
oh, don't go into that, Robin Doolittle, because you're going to get a lot of flack. People are going to come after you. There's going to be trucks parked in your driveway. You know, it's a very funny time to reflect on because we're now in a post kind of Trump world where we're much more used to this type of stuff. But what was so difficult to cover the Ford government when I was
so this was this was 2010 is when I as when I got changed so I was how old am I now how old I'm 37 years old I'm I'm almost 37 don't age me yet I've got two more months to go um
Yeah, I think I was about 25, 26 maybe when I got moved to the City Hall Bureau in 2010. And my very good friend, Daniel Dale, now world famous journalist, was also moved to City Hall in the same time. And the two of us were covering this in the City Hall Bureau. And it was just so bizarre because it's,
You so rarely encounter politicians lie. Of course they say, no, I know breaking news, everybody. I have some bad news for you. No, but they, you know, I say they lie, but really, I think there was a gentleman's lie, I guess. Does that make sense? Like there's a spin. There's a kernel of truth. They're stretching within the confines of what you could maybe say, maybe crossing the line here and there, but they're,
You so rarely at that point, at least to me, had encountered this like someone who was totally willing to stand at a podium and say the sky is is green. The sky is purple. You might think it looks blue, but it's not. And that's the bottom line. And it made it really challenging to cover because.
And this is where he he the administration was very smart. You ended up not just being able to cover the story. You had to then also defend yourself as a person, defend your journalism. You were it was it became this this political fight between the media and the politicians, between, you know, different left right wing politicians and the journalists are calling the balls and strikes.
And it was really difficult. And so, you know, you're talking about the era of Rob Ford going on late night TV. That was after the crack video. So we were before the world really woke up to this. But, you know, we were covering...
the shenanigans happening in, in that workplace without being able to actually write about a lot of it for, for, well, I was looking at it for two years before we ever got a word printed in the paper, because it was so difficult to try to say, we are going to print a story that alleges that the mayor of the largest city in Canada has
has a serious drinking and or drug problem and it's impacting his ability to do his job and his staff wants him in rehab. Getting across that finish line from a journalism perspective was really challenging, especially in that climate. Well, it seemed to endear...
him to the people that had him elected yeah the people that felt invisible marginalized not paid attention to because you know blue collar workers hard-working guys you know in in it just seemed to be like he's our guy we like to drink too we we have a beer every now and again and and and who doesn't like to hit the pipe once in a while like come on
I think so much of it, and you see this with, I mean, in politics very much now, this populist
I don't want a maid to be feel stupid. Like that's, and you see this with COVID so much right now. People, they just don't like these, you know, fancy pants, people telling them what to do or how to think. I think because I don't know, it's, it is, it's an interesting reality to live in because on one hand, if you started from the, from scratch, you'd think you'd want the smartest, most accomplished people making decisions. Absolutely.
But yeah, and then you end up in a situation where you have someone like Rob Ford or Doug Ford, for that matter, running a government. And it was always interesting too, covering that these are very wealthy people that inherited their wealth and inherited their jobs from their father. And yet they connected with people who,
who are making often, not everyone, because sometimes we do oversimplify that the people who follow these guys are all kind of working class people. And that's definitely not the case. Like there are plenty of conservatives. There's a bird attack happening across the street for me right now. So apologies. I love it. No, you know what? Yeah. No, because I think it's great to have this kind of a backdrop.
With the tone of the conversation, Robin, it helps people to digest some very hard... This is tweeting, real-life tweeting. Yes, that's the birdie internet. You know, it makes me kind of jump forward a little bit thinking about what's going on with Rudy Giuliani right now. I mean, here you have the former mayor of New York City
who is entangled. I mean, he was revered, you know, here's this once again, this very wealthy lawyer running the city of New York, you know, running it through nine 11 and, and, and, and being heroic. I mean, I just remember the news stories coming out of, of that state where the whole world was looking at Rudy, like, Oh my God, this he's the only guy that can lead us forward. And it is so difficult to see him all these years later, uh,
of the debacle that he has created, the lies that he told. You know, you talk about the gentleman lies. It's interesting watching all that. What's your kind of take on how that's unfolding? Well, I mean, I guess there's two thoughts I have around Rudy Giuliani. One, I
It's amazing to think like, I mean, he has now, I believe, been disbarred. So he cannot be a lawyer anymore. In New York State. In New York State. But it's interesting that that's what it took, right? So one is the institutions playing catch up to this new reality. I mean, you politically couldn't have done it earlier, I guess, is the thing. So there's that reality, right? And this is what we're all dealing with, is there's the law that
And then there's the application of the law. And ultimately, laws are just, you know, things written in books. They're not real if the public doesn't believe in them. Thank you. Thank you for taking time for us. And I hope I can drop in on your life again. And I wish you such continued success. You're fiercely talented. We need your voice, not only in this country, but globally, you know, representing people
things fairly and having that gray approach to finding out, you know, how these stories are put together and the emotional, I think the emotional part of these stories that plays into it so much. Look after yourself, enjoy your summer. Thank you. You too. And I hope to see you in person soon for like an iced tea. I'd love that. And I'll be your source in the music industry. Anytime Robin Doolittle, I will be your inside source. Thanks everybody.
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Welcome, everyone, back to the Jan Arden Podcast. Yay, Meredith Shaw has just popped in and she's joining us from her Toronto home. I am, as opposed to my many other homes. No. No, no. Just the one. Yeah, right. Where would you want to have a home somewhere else? Palm Springs.
I'll go with you. Awesome. Palm Springs is so easy. Maybe a joint venture, Jan. It's two and a half hours from Calgary. It is such a super easy jaunt. What do you mean? Oh, yeah, that's right. Like for you and Caitlin and Adam, you guys can zip down to Florida because that really is the two hour, 45 minute jaunt. Yeah, Jan, we can, but do we want to? That's the...
We can. Listen, I would go to Florida. I'd say no to Florida. So Caitlin and Adam and I have been talking about just those embarrassing situations when you don't...
mute yourself on Zoom calls, you are, you know, still talking and you haven't hung up the phone. And just before you popped in, I was talking about replying to an email that I got about a songwriter that wanted to write with me. And he sent me a list of stuff he'd done. And they were all horrible songs that I felt were not
great songs and he was just a real he was very narcissistic and very sure of himself and confident which is all great things this is me sounding like a doorknob right now so I hit reply and I replied back to him what I was writing to my office which was like don't want anything to do with this narcissist bye-bye I wouldn't write with him if it was the last thing in the world and it went to him and within five seconds I got a that said duly noted
And I'm still recovering. And that was in the 90s. So it was over 20 years ago. So have you ever found yourself in situations where you've been at the receiving end of that? Or if you've sent a reply, do you have one of those moments?
horrible experiences that it's visceral that I'd like to share no no yeah no I absolutely do but but what's funny about what what you just said is the fact that it was in the 90s do you think if it happened today he might have screenshotted it and like tweeted it out yeah and it would have become a whole thing and Jan Arden could be cancelled or something you know what I mean oh we think she's so nice and like that's the problem with how everything works right now
I've not heard from him in 23 years, but God, I hope it doesn't resurface. I hope he doesn't hear this and decide that it's now a good idea to cancel. This could be very controversial. I could be on the most important episode ever. Yeah, but it has happened to me. It has. I've been that guy I've received. And it just, it just feels, um, do we swear on this podcast or no? You can say, damn it. Oh, and don't.
That's it. That's not what I want to say. I didn't want to say it felt like darn it. I didn't want to say that, but I'll do it. It felt like darn it. It just didn't feel good. It just did not feel good. And it almost, I felt guilty. Like I almost felt badly for him, which is so messed up.
But I almost felt badly for him being like, if I reply back to him, I'll call to attention what he just did. Maybe I should just let him think he sent it to whoever he sent it to. It was just about, I do some voice work for a bunch of stations that I used to try to get my own songs on. And apparently he didn't like my songs, but he thinks I sound okay as the voice of his station. So it was sort of like a diss and a compliment all at once, I guess. Mary?
A wonderful singer, by the way, she's got an effing darn it. Great voice. Thank you. Thank you. And you are. Yeah. My whole stomach just dropped. Like my whole stomach goes into my throat. Whenever you talk about music with me, I just, I can't really compute it all, but thank you so much. Do you know like creative people create and music is so much a part of your story and
And it has lifted you over many an obstacle in your life, Meredith Shaw. And I think it continues to be such a huge part of your heart, your soul, how you make your way through your life. And it's something you're never going to get away from. So don't ever think that you are. And there's no time limitations on these things. And I think what we're also finding out as women, as we get older, and I'll include Adam in this, of course, and men as well,
But women in particular, I think, get to certain ages where they're like, oh, I'm too old to do this now. Or that was in the past. It's never ever at a point, any kind of job that you want to do, but certainly the arts, where you need to bow out. You don't. This is when you kind of push those sleeves up and go forward. So don't you think you're going to escape that little...
Well, I certainly hope not. I don't quite know how it might weave its way back in, but I certainly am looking for ways. So I appreciate those words more than you know, Jan Arden. And speaking of creative things, I want to just waste no time and talk about what you have been creating because I'm seeing one on top of your beautiful headdress.
No, but I think in time for the holidays, we're all looking for ways to support creators, to support small business, to support and to do something different. You know, gift giving is...
Listen, I still love a gift card. Don't get me wrong. Anyone that wants to send a $20 gift card to Tim Hortons, I'm available. But Meredith, you make something beautiful and something that's just different and cool. And tell me about what you've been doing. Well, I mean, it all started last year. I really wanted, as I do sort of in my fashion life, I was working with a lot of brands and I really wanted to focus on working with Canadian brands, with female-led brands, with ethical and sustainable brands.
And I wanted to get a little creative. And so I partnered with a company called Femfair, who are all of those things and more. And we make this thing called a mare band, which is a headband that is Meredith approved and designed. And it's full of sparkle and it's comfortable. And it just sort of puts the cherry on top of anything you're wearing, even if it's sweatpants or your bathrobe or whatever you're doing. And last year, since so much of holiday was on screen, it's sort of
You elevated your holiday look with just something super easy. It's a fun thing. I thank you for bringing it up. And I'm so proud of the people that are making it right here in Canada. And I do it to support a charity that I love called Girls Inc. They create smart, strong, bold girls. So...
When people are spending their money, you know, the stuff that goes to me goes to them. So it's just a, it's a creative venture that, that works. Where can people find the Meriband? You can get it at femfair.ca. If you just go to my Instagram, I got links all over the place for you, but yeah, thank you. Tell me about Girl Inc. a little bit more. That sounds...
like something that you and I could have used at 13 years old. Oh my gosh, big time. They, I mean, they're a North American organization that has local chapters. They almost remind me of, you know, a girl guide or a brownie type of experience. It's really, uh,
girl focused programming for after school. If, you know, families are struggling, it's programming to create financial literacy, to, you know, do body image work. I did a lot of stuff with them when I was a singer and we would do songwriting workshops and
all kinds of stuff. So they just, the girls they create, they really focus on that nine, 10, 11, 12, like where girls start to kind of veer off of just being free and get stuck in sort of what they should be or what people want them to be. And they get smaller and quieter and all that stuff. Girls Inc steps in to just blow them up. And I love what they do so much.
How do you think social media has affected that age group? Oh, gosh. I mean, I see it. I'm a bonus mom to an 11-year-old girl, and I see it. You know, I've known her since she was seven, six, seven. And so to sort of see...
It take hold a little bit and be kind of eyewitness to that process, because I think people you hear that you're like, oh, social media is this big cloud of stuff that you don't really know how to solve or how to should you abstain from it. But then you kind of lose touch with everyone. Like, how do you manage that?
And I think you really start to see the importance of figuring out how you want to participate in it when you start looking at how it affects kids. Because I just don't think we see it in ourselves as much, but I think we are as equally affected. But I think you start to really see it and start to really see how those filters are tough. You know, they're tough to continually see all of those filters.
images reflected back with no pores and different noses. And it's just, it's a very freaky experience. I want to tell you, keep doing what you're doing. Keep being creative. Keep using that beautiful voice of yours, both musically and just inspiring human beings in general. You are
so supportive you've always been nothing but kind to me and I just seeing you in the building seeing you on Maryland or the social you freaking steal every scene you're in oh come on thank you Dan Arden
As promised, we have the one, the only, very inspirational, beautiful, redheaded goddess, cooking extraordinaire woman warrior of Canada and the world, no doubt. Mary Berg joins us today. And everybody, when you hear the name Mary Berg, I'm sure you go back a few years to the excitement of the
of the hit runaway, massive hit show, MasterChef, that Mary won the hearts of millions and millions of Canadians and dazzled us with her culinary prowess and her ability to make magic out of weirdos
weirdest ingredients known to man. And there's a bit of a backstory too, that I'm going to pick Mary's brain about, um, about the ingredients that she was given and the stuff that she was using to cook. Mary Berg, welcome to the podcast. We're so thrilled to have you. Jan, thank you so much for having me. I'm, uh, I'm genuinely thrilled.
seeing your little faces. Yeah. Well, we all showered for you. We're like, oh my God, guys, we have a guest today. Let's work on our backgrounds. Let's try and sit in front of a painting and things like that. So not that anyone's going to see us, but damn it, it makes a big difference to us. I'm the same. I also washed my hair today. So good job, everybody. We did it. Yeah. Yeah.
You have such an amazing branding. And I would imagine because of the success of MasterChef and, of course, the career that has followed your unbelievable cooking show on CTV and the new show that's about to begin, which is called...
Mary makes it easy. And she does. Thank God you make it easy. So you have been like really busy this last two years. You have not been sitting on your hands like cookbooks, the television show. And, you know, just continuing filming that through the pandemic had to be a little bit challenging to say the least.
Completely. I mean, you probably also completely understand how much production changed, but then also how quickly it kind of felt.
Like old hat, I feel like. I personally was really worried because with my show, with Mary Makes It Easy, I sat kind of in a bubble. I wrote 99 recipes on my own. And then you have to go in front of a crew. And I equate what I do to being the world's worst stand-up comedian who also has to make chicken or like a plate.
Cause you're talking to a room and all the mics are hot. So you can't, no one's allowed to make noise cause you're trying to catch all the sounds of everything. So it's kind of a definite ego check and the weirdest thing in the world. But I would not, I,
I love everything about it. I love every single day I come to set and I just want to also be wearing like all black so I can be on the crew because it's so fascinating getting to work with people who are so good at what they do and make you look like you know what you're doing more than you maybe do. Well, you're right about it. I mean, you just follow the protocols and everyone's washing their hands like mad and everyone's got their masks on. And, you know, at least you got less people nibbling on your food with the masks and a set. You know, crafts...
I would imagine like craft services on a cooking show, maybe jump up to a whole new level. Am I right? No, honestly, we all go hard kindergarten snack. Everybody just wants like cheese cubes and, and cookies and juice boxes. It turns into like, we're four years old again. And when snack time comes, it's just,
very, very basic snacks because all we're doing all day is cooking really good food. And typically, yeah, people can snack on things and we kind of share it around and we make enough that basically everybody could take things home at the end of the day. But with COVID, we weren't necessarily able to share things in that same way. So it was a lot different this time. It was very, it felt very mean. Like I would be making,
Tons of cookies. And they'll be like, well, I'm going to bring these only to my house. Yeah.
Well, Caitlin and Adam and I talk about food a lot on the show. And we've asked several guests over the past year about what was in their lunchboxes when they were kids. I went to a rural school, so there was no end to the things my mother tried with me. The famous wiener in the thermos comes to mind, which is not a great idea. It absorbs all the hot water. But what did you have? Did you have a lunch kit? Did you go to school where...
You stayed for lunch at school or did you go back home? Yeah, I went to a small school and it was further away from my house. So I also had a packed lunch. My mom also did the wiener in the thermos situation. Did she? What is going on? I mean, do the math.
Honestly, it's just like long poached wiener and it's not what anybody wants. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. You have hit the magic phrase, Mary Bird, you just want a car. Yes. Long poached wiener. We've been waiting for that sentence for three years.
No, it was, I mean, my mom also, she also tried everything. Cause I, I'm a bit of a creature of habit, especially when it comes to lunch, like peanut butter and banana, always a good thing. It is. Then I went when I was really little was a lot of like, this is bad, but like bologna, ketchup, white bread. Cause it's all just kind of the same texture. Oh God. I know. And it was just, it was just what I was into. And I am not, um,
I don't miss those days because also anytime you pack a lunch, it tastes like the inside of your lunchbox. So I think it's something that you gotta be a little creative. But my mom hates cooking. Like she always hated cooking. Even assembly sandwich is not a thing for her. So lunch was a struggle. I took that over as quickly as I could. I'm going to share something with you that is a very painful childhood memory.
My cousin, I'm not going to name them because I may not live to tell another tale. You know when you could buy blocks of bologna, Mary? Like it didn't come sliced. You go to the co-op or whatever and it was a little bit cheaper to get no name block of bologna.
God help us all. My cousin, when I would go to their house, which was quite often, put the bologna in a blender. Like we were only like 13 years old. So the block of bologna went into a blender and
And because the ketchup thing and the, you prompted me to tell the story. The ketchup would go in, like other things. I'm thinking, I can't remember exactly, maybe parsley or something, nothing fancy. Salt and pepper. Exactly.
Extra salt. Extra salt. And then it would go on to those Ravita toast breads. Sorry, Ravita, you probably will never sponsor our show. So the bologna would just be in kind of this pate-ish blob of red. It looked like a car accident in a blender. I was going to say, it sounds like a very, very...
childlike pate. So any weird, do you have any weird memories like that of food that
people would just be like, I can't believe you ate that. Honestly, I still, I still have that. So I, I don't, I don't eat. Um, I know you're, you're vegan. I don't eat, uh, beef, poultry, uh, pork, lamb, anything like that. But I do, I do still eat fish. And, um, I like the thing, a thing that I call feet rice, which is, uh, white rice with a can of tuna on it and soy sauce. And it, it is delicious, but it does not smell good. Yeah.
So the can of tuna, you just sort of drain the water out or the oil, whatever you're dealing with. And you put that on white rice and then soy sauce on top. People probably always think that you're making gourmet for you and your husband all the time. And that to me reminds me of comforting. That would be a go-to.
Yes. And that's the thing. I think with food, I think we're all so nervous to be, to admit of these like things that we love that are actually kind of trashy. But food should never make you feel bad. It's just, it's delicious. It's there to comfort you. And if that means that you're eating like
spending $25 and ordering in movie theater popcorn for dinner, I'm fine with that. Like if that is what you want tonight to make you, life is hard. It's so true. And just eat what you want to eat. One of my go-to things when I was sort of in college age, so just early 20s,
was just a can of tomato soup. I never had milk in the fridge. I was one of those people that's just like, I don't have milk. I'm just going to put water because milk was a treat in our house to have milk and tomato soup. So I would put the water in, but I would open, oh man, am I going to say this out loud? I would open a can of those mini shrimps and I would throw them into the tomato soup.
We can call that a bisque now. We'll call it a tomato bisque. There you go. I'm telling you, Mary, it was awesome. Well, I just want you to know you're really inspiring. I think your positivity is...
is this indelible thing and the way you make your way through the world, just from where I stand, I see you from afar. I see you doing media junkets. I see you doing interviews. And I'm telling you, Mary, your attitude, your positivity, your willingness to be open-minded, you're just kind. You just exude kindness and
and people want to cheer you on and what a great place to find yourself in. Thank you for doing our podcast today. Thanks for being frigging great. Congratulations on Mary Makes It Easy and everything that you're doing in your life. We just love you and we hope you'll come back and talk to us about poached wieners, poached long wieners on the show. Anytime. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. I'm so thrilled that we have...
cajoled Zaya Tong into doing another episode with us. So here we are. Thrilled to be back. Yeah. She's the author of The Reality Bubble, among many other things. You know what?
Google her, Zaya Tong, and find all the stuff because I don't want to waste one minute going through all her accolades. Last episode, we talked a lot about food and being vegan and all the wonderful choices that we're being given now and actually the freedom to be able to talk about food without doing it in dulcet, hushed tones. Yes, without being muzzled. Why do you think?
think there's a reluctance for people to talk about our food sources, where are we getting it from and changes that we're making. It's so weird. Is it the big industries? Is it the big protein farmers that are like, no, don't talk about this? Well, I mean, it's amazing that I really feel like it's a gift to be able to chat with you about this because let's
be honest, I mean a lot of the media is sponsored by advertising and it is really hard to talk about. We have no advertisers. Oh, well there you go. This is, you know. But typically if you're going to say anything that counters any sort of industry then it makes it hard. I mean that's the reason why people, when people are like, "Why don't we have all the climate change news on?" Well guess what? Most of the ads are sponsored by car companies. So that's been a challenge for a long period of time. But the second thing of course is
You're talking about stuff that is kind of... It's like a horror movie. And not everybody likes horror movies. It's weird that food's taboo. Right? Yeah. So a lot of people are like, ah, that scares me. I don't want to go there. I think what happens for me when I've done any social media about, you know, showing different products on my Instagram feed or I found some really great vegan mayonnaise. You know, Hellman's makes killer vegan mayonnaise. Yes, it sure does. And it's a massive company that...
The store that I go to, this little country store, said we can't keep this stuff in. It just flies off the shelf. That's fantastic. It's just some people just had egg allergies. So they've been waiting all these years to have mayonnaise and it has nothing to do. They probably go home and eat a steak, but they're allergic to frigging eggs. But I think it's fear based because people don't want their rights taken away. And I think they think, well, you know, I want my meat. I want my steak. I want a pork chop.
And they're afraid of that being outlawed somehow or taken away from them. That's not it at all. I think there'll always be freedom to eat whatever it is that you want to eat. But I feel like we can be less cruel about how we do it. Yeah. I think this... I have a thought here, which is going to sound slightly tangential, but I'm happy to share it with you if that's okay. I think one of the things that...
you know, animal rights activists are seen as activists and activists are typically these people who take things away from you, right? Don't do this. Don't, you know, make sure you don't eat this way or you don't buy this plastic. It's a lot of don'ts. It's a lot of like your mom telling you what you can and you can't do.
In my mind now, though, I think what we have to do is reshift the thinking, and that is treat activism as a gift. So when we talk about food, we're talking about all these wonderful new foods that are being presented to people, and that's why there are suddenly lineups outside of KSC for their plant-based chicken. But I had another idea. I'm wondering what you think of this.
Okay, so we know that there's a big climate situation going on, a crisis, right? We've seen 7.7 million people around the world finally marching. We have to make some seriously quick changes because according to the UN, we have 10 years left. It's 2020, right? Starting 2020, we have 10 years to turn things around.
And I don't know about you, but when I was growing up in Hong Kong, we had 7-Eleven. And 7-Eleven was called 7-Eleven because it was open from 7 in the morning till 11 at night, right? Whatever.
What a concept. Exactly. And capitalism hadn't crept into the nighttime yet, right? And today we have this 24-hour economy. Well, what would it be like if we started turning off some of that energy in the nighttime so that we could conserve a lot of this energy again? A, it would be great for all those migrating insects, migrating birds. But what I think would be beautiful in terms of this gift is to give people the night sky back again.
And I was inspired by this because I heard this story in Los Angeles in the 1990s. They had these blackouts. And at the observatory up just above sunset, they started getting these calls. And the people started calling the observatory going, what's that big white orb in the sky? And people were freaking out, right? Because they thought this was some sort of alien thing. And they were like,
That's the Milky Way. So imagine if we could give people back the Milky Way. And that's how I'm really seeing the sort of activist moment that we're in right now. Let's give people back the night sky. Give it a bit of joy. Yeah, let people sleep at night. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
And this 24-hour cycle on everything, I'm always gobsmacked to even see, like, for instance, the Christmas that just went by. Everything's open Christmas Day. Sure is. There's so many things that are open Christmas Day. And I remember Mom saying, you better get all our stuff by the 23rd, because even in the 24th, when I was a kid, everything was closed. Yeah. I have the grace and the wonderful opportunity to live in the country. I've lived west of the city of Calgary my whole life.
I bought land out there. I grew up out there, but when I got old enough to make my own mind up where I was going to live, I stayed and I have land west of Calgary. So I see the stars every night.
That is so rare. I want to come see them. You're welcome. Because I have to make a trip to see something like that now. On a regular basis, you know, in the fall, August, September, I'm able to see the Northern Lights on a perfect day. Oh, my goodness. But the stars are something that everyone that visits my house comments about, of looking up.
and seeing the Big Dipper, seeing Orion's Belt, looking to the north. And I get that. And I think the kids are more hip to it, Zaya. I think they want their planet back. Sure do. Greta Thunberg is the tip of the iceberg on how these young people are thinking with food, with the environment, with changes. I mean, they really think we've dropped the ball. You guys have screwed everything up, and now we're left with this.
And I don't know if we felt like that about our generation before us. I don't... We felt like we were being handed opportunities. Yeah. I remember the first time I went to Africa, and I remember seeing the lions there. And I remember knowing, you know, the lion population is in decline. And I knew that there was... Even then, I needed to get involved. You know, I wanted to...
But gosh, we had a lot of lions there compared to what we have now. And I think that's the difference. When I was a kid and I went to, you know, I wouldn't go to a zoo today perhaps, but at the time you knew that the zoo animal was representative of millions of other animals out in nature. Not anymore. But today those kids go to the zoo and they're like, wow, this is actually a sanctuary for probably the last of its species. So a radically different time.
But the good news is, and I'm not a doom and gloom person. No. Caitlin knows this. I'm like a doom and bloom person. I love it. Doom and bloom. Get the T-shirt, folks. Yeah. No, there's just like so many good things happening now. And I think that we also need to focus and let people know that that's happening. You mentioned Greta Thunberg. One of the things is she doesn't fly.
And I was thrilled to find out. I was chatting with Elizabeth May, who's a friend. We went out for dinner the other day, and she's going to do the big announcement, I think, or she just did do the big announcement about the electric plane that is Harbor Air from Victoria and Vancouver Island to Vancouver. I'd get on that electric plane. Heck, yeah.
Yeah, it's wonderful. I mean, especially for short hauls. That's exactly right. That's exactly what they're planned for. And a lot of flights are actually short haul flights. So those sorts of things are happening right now. Big changes. I think there's so many great things coming down the pike as far as technology goes. There's an interesting fact that I did read in your book, though. Like I said, I had flipped it open on our last episode and I told you that I'd kind of flipped open to a petroleum thing. And what was so interesting to me is that
You were taking a quote from another book that you'd read about three tablespoons of gasoline and what that comparatively turned into with human manpower. And I was gobsmacked. Can you share a little bit about that? Yeah. What it represents and why?
that energy is so important to think of it in that term. Yeah. Well, I know, for example, that one tank of gasoline, one tank of gas is equivalent to two years of human labor. So when people are like, why are... So get your head around that, folks. Yeah. Why are people so addicted to oil and gas? It's because we lay
We're lazy. This freed us of a lot of hard work. Thank you, Zaya. And we're going to have you back. I'm going to drag you in here again. Toodly-doo, everybody. Thanks for listening. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.