Finding Forgiveness & Special Guest Raeanne Schachter
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Hello, everyone. I'm Jan Arden. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I'm here with Sarah Burke. I am in my home in Springbank, Alberta. No, I did not say Sperm Bank. I said Springbank. It's very quiet in my house. My dog, Poppy, is

is very chill today. He's feeling okay. He was barking at deers. He had a good breakfast. He's had treats. He's been chewing on that wiener stick thing. That is so disgusting. I am vegan. My dog is not vegan. So I did not buy it for him, the wiener stick. I'm just going to put that out there. It's called a pizzle, I think. Somebody else did. And I curse them to this day.

And I hope once he's finished it, that we never have one of those wiener sticks in the house again. Welcome to the show. That's not what we're talking about today. We have an amazing guest on our show. Sarah, you're laughing. It's so quiet. Can you hear the quiet? It's super quiet. It's almost eerie. You're home again. I am home again. I'm back in the home studio. My colleague who I used to work with many years ago, Raeanne Schachter, her name was Raeanne Holliboff back in the day, but she's married Raeanne Schachter.

You know, 50, 60 year old woman, I'm not going to say how old she is, but she's, you know, similar in age to me, has made a complete career change. I want to talk about how inspiring that is. She's worked many jobs. She's been in the music industry for years, photographer. I don't want to, I don't want to give too much away, but Raeann is going to talk to us about a leap of faith that she made in her career to go into the arts, to go into the art world full time, sculpting and painting.

And she's a guest artist at a gallery in Vancouver on Granville Island until August the 1st. And we will direct you to her and let you know how to find Rayanne. But her work is exceptional. Anyway, what I wanted to talk to you about today, forgiveness, what it actually means, what it is, how it's been applicable to your life, how hard it is to do.

No, it's not about the other person. It's not about forgiving them, a parent or a sibling or a lover or a husband, ex, whatever, a workmate. It's not about them. It's about you. What holding on to that kind of stuff can do to you. How has forgiveness played a role in your life? You've probably been on both sides of it. I certainly know that I have. And forgiveness is very different for me now at this point in my life.

than it was in my 20s and 30s and 40s. I don't even think I understood what it was. I don't think I understood how it affected my happiness to forgive and to be forgiven. It really has taken me six decades to fully comprehend and appreciate

what it means. Well, I'll definitely talk about forgiveness with you, but I'm so curious, what is it that made you think about digging into this topic today? Is there something that's gone on this week? Well, I think I have an older brother who spent three decades in jail. I'm not going to get into what and why and how people know that story. They can look it up. He's been out of jail for two and a half years.

It'll be three years this summer. He's been in a halfway house. He's not free in society. He's not wandering around. He has to check in. You know, every moment of his day is accounted for. He's had unbelievable health issues. It's almost like when he got out of jail, his whole body went, it crumbled. It fell in on itself. He's got diabetes. He's got lots of problems with his hands and working mobility. He lost most of his left foot.

It's just a litany of stuff. And we've had our go-arounds, you know, but I have to find a way to really forgive him and move on. It was so destructive for my family. Mom and dad are gone now, but when you have someone who's in trouble, that kind of trouble their whole lives, and I mean from the time you're 14 years old,

the police at your door constantly. My parents' cortisol must have been through the freaking roof. They were always in flight mode. They were always managing anxiety and sadness and depression because they had a son that was so lost. And they did everything they could in the 70s and the 80s to

redirect to find help. There wasn't a lot back then. There wasn't a lot of help for addiction. There wasn't a lot of help. My parents felt lost at sea. They pulled themselves away from their friends. You know, we already lived in the country, which was isolating enough. It's not like you can go knock on the neighbor's door. There isn't a neighbor's door. So my brother had come out here. I haven't talked to him really in over a year. And

I wished him happy birthday. His birthday's a week before me. He's three years older than me. And I sent him, you know, a bit of money. But when I got home yesterday, it was the day after my birthday, there was a card stuck in my gate. And I got out of my car. Yeah, it was from him. And it was a funny card. And he probably doesn't even have the money to buy a card, really. And I just felt a sense of shame and a sense of... I just felt stupid. I'm not even sure why I'm mad at him.

He hasn't done anything. He's just, it's all old stuff. And I really made me think when I was lying in bed last night, what is forgiveness? What does it mean? What do I need to do to move on with my brother? You're entering that part of your life where you're like, okay, so if there's a life where we get to have some sort of relationship, how do I get there to open that door for what's left of our lives? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I can't, I can't do day to day. I can't be that person. I can't be his point guard. I'm not his parent, you know? And I think when he first got out that first year and a half, you know, I just was trying to do everything and be everything and, and remove obstacles and somehow make it easy. And so our relationship was always very tense because he was in a

A very different place than me. You know, I'm at a place in my life where I kind of just want to breathe out and be peaceful. And he's in the midst of chaos. And I can't take it on. Of course. Yeah. I can't take it on. So I just pulled back. We had kind of a shitty exchange and a conversation about just stupid stuff. And I hung up the phone, you know, over a year ago and I thought, I'm not doing this. Mm-hmm.

But now this time has gone by, and when I got the card that he had signed, have a happy birthday, just said his name, but he drove all the way out here. It's a long drive, and it's gas. I know he drives Dad's old truck, which is his prized possession. Dad would have wanted me to give him that truck. It's a nice offering. Oh, gosh, yes, yes, yes. But then it started the wheels turning, and so I lied in bed for two hours just thinking, okay.

I don't want to have this riding between us. I can't have you in my life on a day-to-day basis. I can't be that. I can't do lunches all the time. And I mean, it sounds so horrible even as I say this out loud to you and to all our listeners, but I know there's people out there that are experiencing such similar things, whether it's a sibling, whether it's a parent, an ex, an old friend.

that years have gone by, years, and there's something there and you might not even remember what it was that was between you. But I don't want to carry this forward. So I have to figure out- How to forgive, yeah, to let go of it. Do I write him a letter? So yeah. And so I really realized that as much as

He doesn't need to be forgiven. It's not for him. It's for you. He knows what he did to my parents. I think he does anyway. Like sometimes I just want to hear him say, do you know what you did? Do you understand what you put us all through? Do you really get it?

Do you get what happened to us as a family? You just, you pulled the fucking thing out of the grenade and you threw it into the living room and then you walked out and you did it for 35, 40 years, probably 40 years of his life. You're now sober. And I'm sure over some of those years, there were things that maybe you were on the other side of that fence for. Did you ever have to make amends with anyone during that process?

Oh, gosh, yeah. I've apologized to so many people for drinking stuff. Absolutely. So although it's very different... And I have forgiven myself. I have tons of things that I'm ashamed of. Many regrets. People that say I have no regrets, good on you. I have so many regrets. Some people say, no, I have no regrets. Anthony Hopkins, I just heard him

Talk about having no regrets. And I get that. He's a man in his 80s. And I'm sure he says, I've done some good things. I've done some very bad things, but I have no regrets. And I appreciate that. I have regrets.

And I know my brother's life is a regret. I know the whole thing is a regret. I know that he wishes he could take it back, but now he sits in decisions that he made and my parents are gone. He missed out on all that time, all that time with my parents. And I didn't have him to help me. Yeah, that's a hard thing. And I think that's a common piece with many people in their families, right? Well, I just, you just feel angry, but I don't, he doesn't need to be punished anymore.

He doesn't need to be punished anymore, certainly not by me. I was mad about some of the things that happened and some of the things he said and did, you know, when he got out, but he's so institutionalized as well. And, you know, he's a very good-hearted person. He's got a heart as big as anybody's heart you'd ever imagine. And human beings are the only species on the planet that continually punish themselves for things they did in the past. Very true. A dog doesn't, a giraffe doesn't, an elephant doesn't, a bird doesn't.

Nature is very much in the moment, but human beings and the way our system works, even the way we punish people in jail, it's a system that has shown itself to not work over and over and over and over the way we incarcerate people. I mean, this is a whole different conversation, but it doesn't work. So I'm looking at the system in Canada, one of the freest, most wonderful countries in the world and how we imprison people.

is so broken. It's contributed to the situation. Yeah. So my brother gets out of jail. He just came out so, so in pieces. Yes, the responsibility lies with him, but it also lies within a system that makes sure that every day, every day you will be punished over for what you did instead of repaired.

instead of encouraged, instead of lifted, instead of you are not what you did, you are what you will do, instead of being healed, instead of being cheered on, you will be punished for whatever you did every day. So when you have that whole thing, the beatings will cease when the morale improves, that's going to jail. How do you ever get well?

Mm-hmm. And not that I'm anyone that is educated enough to give advice on this type of thing, but, you know, it really sounds to me like you can, you have your boundaries in place about where you need to go with this relationship. And I think those are very strong, but maybe you can ask yourself what you actually want from the relationship. Maybe it's,

I would like to have a lunch with him once a year and that's all I'm going to be able to handle. And I'm going to make it a new tradition and then I'll look forward to it. And hopefully so will he. And the rest of the time I need to not be responsible. Exactly. Exactly that. But, uh, I know my actions hurt him and what my stand is hurting him. And that card was more than just a card. It was a white flag that got shimmied up a pole. And so I have to figure out and all you people listening, um,

You have someone in your life. And if you don't, bless you. But if you do, find a way back to peacefulness. You don't have to hold hands and walk into the sunset. But I don't want to live with this in my body. So that's what prompted me, Sarah, to think about forgiveness, how it affects us all, what it actually means. You know, you see horrific things of someone drunk driving that

I remember reading this years ago of a family of three children that were instantly killed. The mother survived. She woke up from one day to the next with her entire family wiped out and she chose to forgive. Of course, the drunk driver survived and she went on to have more children. She had to think about that. You know, am I remembering, is this honoring my children who passed away? And she said, yes, it is. Her story is so inspiring.

I remember seeing this woman on Oprah. The name escapes me. Maybe we can find it. But so people have forgiven such big things. And even she said it's like releasing that man from whatever it is. But she didn't want to live in that place where you live in hatred because it turns into such, it morphs. It morphs. You think your resentment is going to hurt somebody invisibly. It's not going to do anything to them.

People that get divorced, people that end relationships, ruin their entire lives by poisoning their children against their ex-partners so that their misery is shared. They're a terrible person. You should, you know, shouldn't. They feel validated. And I'm not going to choose to do that in my life. You know, whatever our relationship is. Maybe a letter. Yeah, definitely. I do want to write a letter. I think it's a place to start.

And like you started this conversation by saying, he's not a bad human. Maybe he needs to hear that. You know what I mean? Not that you owe him anything. But I have told him that. And I've told him he doesn't need to be sorry anymore. I've told him that. Right. Or to say how much you appreciated him driving out to drop off the note, right? Like whatever it is, I think start with your words. I did send him a text. I said, thank you for the card. It was very funny. It was a very short exchange. But yeah, so...

Have you ever needed to be forgiven or forgiven someone? And what does that look like for you? It's funny how this has come up on this show now more than once. And it's more attention than I've given it in the last 10 years. I think it's been a decade now. But I've talked about one of my childhood best friends deciding that she can no longer be friends with me.

And it was quite painful at the time. This is the one that I called, you know, worst breakup than any romantic relationship that I've ever been in. And through time and therapy, you know, I've come out the other side, I think, with forgiveness. You can't control someone else's actions or thoughts. The only thing you can do is send them love and hope that whatever they're struggling with

they will face. Do you know why? I think what was going on inside that person led to her decision that she couldn't stand to be around me or be my friend anymore. What's so tough about that question is I truly believe the answer is she couldn't stand to be happy for me. Oh.

The timing around when this happened, I had just got a promotion at my job. I was moving from the evening show to the afternoon show. You know, it's a coveted spot. I had just bought a condo. You know, she lived out west at the time in Vancouver, really expensive city, and she simply couldn't afford to do something like that at the time.

But I remember feeling when I was looking at properties and sharing some of that journey with her, I remember feeling like she was criticizing my decisions. And, you know, I pulled back a lot during the process. You know, then it went a couple months and all of a sudden it was like, hey, I bought a property. I think she took it personally that I had reached this milestone in my life.

And she wasn't there yet, maybe. And I mean, if we go back to high school and when we were younger, I mean, she always had a boyfriend. I didn't. Like there were many things that, you know, just best friends growing up. We were both jealous of. But I kind of think in this instance, she just couldn't take it internally. When I was in such a happy spot in my life, entering a new chapter, new property, promotion at work, I just don't think she could take it.

wrap her head around it. And the way it happened was so bizarre. I invited all my girlfriends to come see the condo. We had a bit of a party weekend planned. I had some hookups at the radio station. I drove her home to see her parents, was showing her mom pictures of my condo on my cell phone. And she just went upstairs. And that was the last time I saw her. I remember calling out to her in the

I'm going home. Like, do you want to come say goodbye? I don't know if I'm going to see you again this week. And she was obviously like in Ontario from being out West to visit. That was the last time I saw her. And that tells me it was more about her than it was about me. Did you have a chance to talk?

We still have not talked. And she's missed all the weddings in our group of friends. She has just made herself not around. So it's not just you? Is it the entire group? She's in touch with them, but she goes quiet when she's jealous of things going on with the other girls too, which is, it's sad to me. You know, things like, I think I've heard from one of the girls that, you know, she was looking forward to having a family. I think she's had some trouble starting one.

And, you know, I've heard that she goes quiet in those conversations. Well, there's a lot of pain there. Of course there's a lot of pain. There's sadness there. But a real friend, right? Like to be there for your friends when they're having their own struggles in life as they enter new chapters, you know, it's a two-way street just because it doesn't make you feel good inside. You don't get to desert your friends. So as painful as that is, it seems to be that

You know, she removes herself. She retreats into this isolated space. And it must be so sad and isolating. And even my mom has run into her mom in like a, what was it, like a Walmart or a winner's parking lot. And, you know, from our childhood, it's like, oh my gosh, how are you? I don't understand why our girls don't talk anymore. It's just painful all around. I feel for you. I really do because I know it bugs you. And as much as you set it aside, it bugs you.

And I hope that you find resolve. Is it worth a letter? Is that worth a letter to fire off a letter or an email? Somehow putting pen to paper seems much more earnest and sincere than an email. And I think if you're going to reach out to somebody and if you're going to make an attempt or if this prompts you to rethink old wounds or things that have bothered you,

Even if you don't send the letter, I recommend writing it, licking that envelope and sticking it in there. Yeah, even for yourself. And you can set it on your desk or your kitchen table. And if you, you can look at it for a week or two or a month. And, you know, if you send it, great. If you don't, great. But I'm going to send the letter. Thank you, Sarah, for bringing that up. I'm going to start putting the letter together. I'm not going to type an email. I just feel like- It's therapeutic.

There's something you need to be tactile. It needs to be your soul through that pen, onto that paper, through that ink. And nevermind that it's something people can hold onto. They can smell an envelope. They can feel it. And I think there's a bit of our soul that goes into things like that. And, you know, we're going to talk to an artist today about a bit of soul going into the work that you do and how important that is.

I will say I did write the note years ago and... Oh, to this friend? Yeah. Yeah, I did write the note and things still went silent. So, you know, I know I tried and that's why I think I have arrived at peace with it. I think it's totally fine for friends to grow apart and for you to be in different phases of your life. But, you know, to like...

Go silent, block all the accounts. That's a very strong message that I didn't understand at the time. And I still, even in the last year, like in therapy, that was one of the exercises we did was like, I had to write a note saying what's on my mind about this person and then put it aside. Like it wasn't to send to them. It was for me. Well, therein lies the whole thing. Anyway, I hope this conversation has prompted some of you out there to rethink your

things that just bug you, just are sitting there and you don't have to have them sit there. I will touch base with y'all again and let you know where I'm at with it and where I go from here.

but it's an important conversation. It's just not easy being a person. Anyway, we're going to take a little bit of a break. And then, as I mentioned, we're going to speak to an old colleague of mine who's got a brand new exhibit that maybe you'll road trip to see this spring or summer. It's in Granville Island out in British Columbia. And apparently I, Platt,

played a very small role in her picking up a paintbrush. Do tell. More about that with my dear friend Rae-Ann Schachter when we come back on the Jan Arden Podcast and Show.

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Welcome back to the Jan Arden Radio Show and Podcast. It's Jan here with Sarah Burke and my former colleague and friend, Raeanne Schachter. She's got a new setup at Railspur Gallery in Vancouver's Granville Island. She's an amazing artist, and she's doing a guest apprenticeship, I guess, in Lynn Faulkner's studio. Raeanne, it's been so many years. You're still going by. Sure.

Schachter. Schachter. Schachter. Let me just back this train the hell up. Rayanne and I worked together, can I say 18 years ago, 17 years ago? Yeah, that's about right. And you came into the office just...

this beautiful, positive ray of beaming energy. And we had lots of fun. We had such a great time. My producer, Sarah Burke, she sent the letter that I wrote to you early days when you started. And I was just like, Oh my God, what office are we talking about? Fill a sister in. Oh,

the Jan Arden management company. Headquarters. I had worked with a manager for like 10 years. We parted ways. And then I started my own management company with a young girl named Nikki Shibo, who is,

is still in Calgary. She's still in the music business. Um, but Nikki, we, we just, it was like, we just sort of made a team and Rayanne came in at such a crucial time because I didn't really know what I was doing. I'm sure Nikki was just like, I'm not sure what I'm doing. And, uh, we were just trying to make sense of what do you do in a management company? So

So, I mean, now I'm with Bruce Allen. I have been for 15 years or something like that. But it was a really interesting time. And it was a bunch of women. Yeah. Four mighty women. Leneen Violini was the fourth, right? Yep. What did you do, Raeann?

My gig was to represent Jan with the record company and her publishing company. And I also had the privilege and joy of traveling a lot with Jan. Oh boy. And those are really the best memories. You know, I mean, the business side was, was great. We had some wins, we had some losses, but yeah,

The times that I cherish and will absolutely never forget are those trips, Jan, that we took and we got to spend time together and...

I am one of the luckiest women on the planet to have had the opportunity and all the others in my career. Well, get in line because I feel lucky too. And we've kind of bumped into each other over the years. I know that we both worked for a very talented gentleman named Dave Pierce. Yes. And Dave is an amazing arranger and writer, writer.

composer. He's done so many string arrangements for me. He's worked on a lot of my records over the years. And Ran, you kind of looked after him for a long time. And so we kind of bumped into each other in that world. But now I think what's really important and why I really wanted to talk to you is, so like a lot of women, you've done a lot of things in your life. I have too. Like just a lot of, had a lot of hats on, done a lot of different things. And I've spoken so much about how

As women get older, they're continually marginalized. Even when women hit 40,

They face obstacles. They face scrutiny. Boy, as soon as you can't have a baby fly out of your body, you're really of no value to society. Once your beauty starts to fade or your sexual prowess or whatever it is that we're perceived as. So even at 40, women hit that benchmark in their lives where they're like, now what do I do?

And they feel like, oh, I can't start something new. But then we have people exactly like you. I want you to talk a little bit about your journey. You are a brilliant artist. And I was surprised by the journey that you've been on this past number of years. And I feel like it came out of nowhere, but maybe it didn't come out of nowhere. Talk about making that transition, taking that leap of faith.

rethinking your life? Well, let's start with when I worked for you, you were painting. And I wasn't consciously paying attention to that, really. There was a lot of things to focus on, but it definitely planted a seed. I decided to retire. I went on a trip to France. It was an art workshop.

And I thought, well, you know, I'll go up to Champagne Country and if I don't like painting, I'll just go on some wine tours or something. I'll just drink. If I don't like art, I'm just going to have champagne. I had a plan B.

But I loved it. And I started taking lessons with the facilitator of that workshop. And since 2018, I have not stopped painting. And I decided to really make a go of it and approach it with the same professionalism I have throughout my career. And by golly, it's working. I mean, I've had a lot of support. I'm very surprised, I guess is the best word, at how supportive the arts community is to

I thought, you know, they'd be a little bit like, well, you don't know anything and you're too old. And, you know, that ageism thing again, right? It's that was in my own head, you know, at 40 and 50 and 60 and beyond. We have a lot to say as women. We've lived some life and I'm speaking my stories through my my paintings.

I call them dames. Talk to me about the dames. Talk to me about your journey into being a guest artist at Granville Island. And this is a gallery setting where I think the actual art takes place. Yes. That you're actually doing the work. And are the public able to go to Granville Island and see you guys working? Yes.

Yes, it is a working gallery. So I'm set up and I'm working and then the public is welcome to come in. And as the weather improves and the summer hits, it's getting very busy. It's an incredible opportunity for an emerging artist like me. I took a creative class called Preschool for Grownups.

I love it. I know. So Lynn Faulkner is the sculptor who I'm the guest artist in her space and she teaches that class. And I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, you know, and she needed a guest artist and I was ready with with some work and some ambition and some ideas. And I've been there since March. And I'm

And it's been incredible so far. And I'm then there until August 1st. Well, I'm going to be seeing you for absolutely effing sure. If it's the last thing I do. Yeah, I'm in Vancouver quite a bit, but I want to go spend, A, some time with you. But see the gallery, see you doing your work. And plus, I'm going to own some of your work this year. It's going to be on my wall in my house. You also do amazing sculptures. Your work is so...

I don't even know what to compare it to. The colors make me smile. The shapes and the human beings that you have just kind of jump out at you with so much joy and bravado. It's like Picasso had a baby with...

Pollock and somehow Matisse made an appearance and I don't know it's just so truly original what you're doing Rayanne have you surprised yourself when you put paint

on that brush and touch that canvas, you had to have been like, wow, I actually, there's something inside of my body here that needs to get out. Yeah. Very surprised. And I'm still surprised every day. You know, it's like, wow, where did this come from? Talk about, you know, for women out there that have always wanted to do something in their entire lives. I don't care if that's making candles or

taking a photography course, pottery, painting. I don't care, but to actually just find space in your brain and in your soul to go, I'm going to do this. What was it for you that just was the tipping point? Did you have someone cheering you on or do you feel like I have to do this or I'm just going to implode? Well, I have a lot of people cheering me on. And my husband, for example, is

is a key supporter. I don't think I'd be able to do this

And I'm not talking about financial support. I'm talking about, you know, being there and making me feel like not guilty for spending 10 hours in the studio instead of cooking dinner, you know? So I think an important thing is to have somebody who believes in you. You know, Jane Fonda was talking about that in an interview she was doing. And you really have a better chance of success

Yeah, you feel supported, right? It may not be your husband, it may not be your best girlfriend, but they're there. And I think it's your job to find them. And you do that, I believe, by being supportive yourself.

How do you feel about monetizing your work? Was that kind of a weird thing? Because I think there's a lot of doubt with what is this worth? What number do I put on this painting? I think that's where a lot of people, when they go into the arts, when they're monetizing intellectual property, which I think is anything that you create, whether it's a screenplay, like you're doing painting, sculpting, making jewelry, how do you monetize that? And did you have...

people that are like, this is what this is worth, or this is what you can get. And how has that evolved over the last five years? Because I bet your first painting, if someone has said, I'll give you a Tony for it, you'd be like, that's freaking fantastic. I'll, you know? Yep. You're absolutely right. It was 10 bucks. Oh my God. And see, now these people are going to have a story. The Rayanne Schachter that I own is now worth $4.3 million. Wow.

I bought it for $10 at the time. So yeah, people feel very, you brought up the word guilty about monetizing their work and trying to figure out what you're worth or what a piece of work is worth. So talk to me about that a little bit, how you think about that or what Lynn has to say about that. It is a common question. Nobody really knows how to price their work.

So what I did was I asked the advice of others and, you know, I got a lot of different opinions because some people think art should be affordable to everyone. Some people think you're doing a disservice to other artists if you undercharge. So I really had to sit back and I, you know, listen to the advice and process it and then do what felt was right for me.

And I think the best bit of advice was as you start selling and as you start exhibiting in higher profile spaces, your prices can go up and it's working. And you also have to think about your time that you spend, Raeann. Like,

If you spend a hundred hours on a piece, my goodness, that's got to weigh heavily into something. It's such a complicated issue. Like what's a song worth? We've had that debate so many times about streaming and when people were getting all their downloads for free and it was just like pillaging the musical community and

tens of thousands of people were losing their jobs in these major labels and they had to par down. And, you know, artists were like, well, I don't know how you expect us to make music if we're not being...

Paid for it. Even in podcasting, like right now it's kind of the wild, wild west in monetizing podcasts too, right? And it's all that same question of like that intellectual property and what it's worth. It's exactly it. I mean, you have to stream millions and millions of downloads in order to make a dollar. So all you artists out there, it's so inspiring to see you just

breaking into a different part of your mind and your heart and finding a rainbow at the end of the rainbow. I'm talking with Rayanne Schachter. She is a guest artist on Granville Island. Dames, women in the city, they picked you out of what? 8 million people. That's what I heard. 8 million people. How did the invite go? Because this is a guest spot at a woman's studio and she's like a mentor of yours. How did that conversation go?

I took Lynn's class, preschool for grownups, and I started making a few little sculptures. And she came out to an exhibit I had last summer. And she said, oh, wow, this is pretty good. And I said, thank you. Nice to hear from a mentor, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So...

She was looking to change up her studio a little bit and have guest artists instead of a permanent artist for many years. I like it. Yeah. So she had a guest artist, Tanya Gardner, great painter. And I said, well, who's next?

She said, oh, I haven't really sorted that out yet. And I said, well, what does a person have to do to be your guest artist? And she said, a person just has to ask. That's a lesson right there. That's how it happened. Yeah. A person just has to act. That's the lesson. You have to be brave. Yeah. You have to be brave. Remember that, folks. You have to be brave. And so what if someone says no? So what?

But people are so frightened of being perceived as failing or not getting. It really is nuts what holds us back. It's a simple sentence. Can I blank, blank, blank? Yeah. You know? Yeah. So that's how it happened. And then so I was, you know, then I was in panic mode. Oh, now I have to work and create paintings that are worthy of Granville Island, which is really the art hub of Vancouver. Yeah.

So I decided to call them dames women in the city because I live out in the suburbs and I thought, okay, we're going to take the ladies and we're going to go downtown. I just decided to become more free and open to the unknown. And it really worked. The paintings are a lot freer. The brushstrokes are a bit wilder. The colors are more vivid and distinct and,

And the dames are loving the city. They never moved back to Maple Ridge, you know? It really is so joyous to create lasting things because you...

think when you're doing something that obviously it's going to outlive you. It really is very satisfying to think about legacy, to think about what you leave behind you, and to think about how far you've come. Do you ever think to yourself, I wish I would have started this when I was 20, or was that version of Rayyan not here yet? You had to do things in the order you've done them. I don't know what would have happened if I started painting at 20, but I wouldn't want to have missed what's happened in between.

Can I just mention also that you are a fantastic photographer and I still have pictures to this day of a beautiful day that we spent, which was a surprise because it was a part of your job description that I didn't even know existed. You were doing all these other things in the office and traveling with me a lot.

But we did a photo shoot and I have a picture still framed. My parents loved it. It was like, this is our favorite picture. You had draped this velvet cloth across me and there was a fabric backdrop. You are an exceptional photographer. And I wonder if creative people just create and if that had any link to what you're doing now, that visual part of it. And musicianship, a little cello playing.

If I may be so bold to remind you of that and to let our listeners know that you can do all of it. You can. It's possible. And again, you've got to be brave. Playing the cello is very difficult. And I've been doing it for years and I feel like I'm not getting any better. Yeah.

But it's great brain exercise and it's joyous and it influences my art. How so? Well, my teacher, her name is Marina Hasselberg. She is incredible. And she gives little assignments where we have to research composers, players, and every one of them has a fascinating story.

Like Evelyn Glenny, Dame Evelyn Glenny, Scottish percussionist who went deaf at about the age of 12 and went to university to study percussion. And she applied to a job in an orchestra and the interviewer said, well, we can't hire a deaf percussionist in the orchestra or something like that. Or it was a school. Well, yeah, I can see their reluctance, right? He said...

I want to be a solo percussionist. I do not want to be in an orchestra. And she is the only solo percussionist in the world.

And she does it all through feeling. You don't have to hear rhythm. Yeah. Rhythm is tactile. You feel it. I've often, you know, seen things with, you know, deaf people holding their hands on a speaker or they can feel it on the dance floor. I mean, Marlee Matlin was dancing with the stars. She's completely deaf. Exactly. Yeah. So that assignment for my cello plays, it just empowered me.

Thinking, okay, if this deaf woman can become a world famous percussionist and, and, and lecturer and teaching people on how to really hear. I thought, well, you know, that's amazing. And I can be a painter. Yeah. You know, I wonder if people overlook inspiration, if they overlook, if they don't pay enough attention in their busy, busy lives to not,

feel that little niggling at you, you know, that tapping on your shoulder. You know what I mean, Sarah? Like it's, you get these little nudges, but we're like, oh no, I can't do that. People will make fun of me. Some of that for you right now, Jen, is writing, I think. Like you've always just like, you know, whether it's writing fiction or, you know, your own story over the last few years, you've really stepped into that, which is

Very interesting, I think. And it's just because I love it, right? It's certainly not because of a level of expertise. Nothing I've done in my life has anything to do with a level of knowledge. It's pure. It absolutely feeds my humanity. And I just like it. Rand, you met my mom and dad, you know, several times over the years. My mom used to say, you don't have to be a great writer to tell a great story. And I've said this on this show many times. And it's true.

And I don't think you have to be a great painter. You don't have to be Rembrandt to enter into something. Like, look, go into a bookstore. There's things that are for every part of your imagination. There's literary geniuses and iconic, you know, whether you're looking at Jane Austen's catalog or someone like George Eliot's.

you know, these women from 17th, 18th centuries that were writing when women weren't writing. I talk about that a lot too, because I'm so inspired by the bravery it took. I mean, when you have to change your name from Mary to George Eliot to be accepted in the literary world and you write Middlemarch sort of in the middle of your career, which is one of the revered pieces of literary work. But I think that's what holds people back is

Like you're a photographer and a cello player, but you're not yo-yo ma for Christ's sakes. No, I'm yo-yo mama. You're yo-yo mama. I am yo-yo mama.

So it's so funny what keeps us from expressing ourselves. And I'll tell you what, you live longer, you're healthier, your blood pressure comes down, you feel differently about your place in the world. Does art and your painting and that form of expression change how you're able to talk to people? Yes, yes. I'm also braver in

in speaking with others and letting my heart do more of the talking and be less guarded. And what I get back from that is magic. Oh, I love it. You know, we were talking about inspiration and I think sometimes I was looking in the wrong places for inspiration. You would think a painter would look to be inspired by other painters.

I don't do that. I listen to music, all types of music. I go for walks, hikes. I talk to people. I read.

That's where the inspiration comes from me, not from other painters necessarily. Okay, before we let you go, you know I got to fit this in, Jan. Tell me a story about Jan we need to know from back in the day. All of your listeners know how damn funny you are, right? On stage, Jan's shows are brilliant because they make you laugh and they make you cry and every emotion in between.

That's Jan in real life too. She's her authentic self on stage, I can tell you. So I don't think I've ever laughed so much. We did laugh a lot. We did laugh a lot. And one of the funniest things was Bus Puppet, Jan. Bus Puppet. Yeah. If you've never been on a tour bus, I'll just try to paint you a picture.

There's the front of the bus where the driver is. There's a little section, a little kitchen and lounge. And then there's a bunch of bunks in the center, all stacked up on. You'd be basically sleeping on a shelf. It's that glamorous. So what Jan would do is wedge her body on the middle shelf or even sometimes on the top. If we weren't going through the mountains. I don't know how she did it. She.

She wedged her bum and her back and her shoulders. And then she just hang into the little aisle of the bus and her limbs would flop around. I don't know. I mean, I know this is radio, but. I've made myself into a puppet and I, it was so stupid, but it looked, I can't tell you how it looked. Cause I was the puppet, but oh my God, we would cry laugh at, cause I'd lift my arm and my arm would lift my leg. I had invisible strings on me.

Rayanne, I probably haven't done that since that bus ride. I don't know if I'd be agile enough to get my ass into one of the shelves. Those bunks are something else, hey? Yeah. If you're the least bit claustrophobic, basically I liken it to being in a casket because there's a little curtain that you shut. And I can't tell you how many times I sat up forgetting that

to go to the bathroom and knocked my head on the shelf. I actually paid homage to that in season two of the Jan show. There's a scene that opens up. I'm with my manager on a tour bus and I'm in there and we're trying to sleep. And she's my tour manager sort of whips my curtain open and tells me that my sister's having a baby and I need to go home. And I sit up and smash my head. So,

There was a lot of things stolen from real life, but Boss Puppet, thank you for that reminder. It was lots of fun. And there's nothing quite as satisfying for me on a personal note to see you fly, to see you soar, to reconnect.

to look at your beautiful pieces of art. Please, if you're anywhere near Granville Island this summer, the show runs till August the 1st. Dames, Women in the City. My friend, Rae-Ann Schachter, who is so freaking talented. What a great day trip that would be. And there's no hands to what you can eat on Granville Island. Is there, Rae-Ann? Oh, food is magnificent. And

There are so many artists and there's musicians and great bookstore right across from our gallery. So please come down and enjoy the whole island and come say hi to me. Well, congratulations. Once again, I'm so thrilled for you, Rayanne, on this. I cannot wait to see where you go next. Thank you for inspiring the people around you. Thank you for putting such love out into the world. And I can't wait to see you give you a squish next.

Thank you for being part of our show today. We'll see you very soon. Thank you for having me, Jen. Sarah, thank you. Lots to ponder, lots to think about this week. Until next time, folks, thank you so much. Hit that subscribe button. You can find us on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. We sure appreciate you guys. Tuli Dhu. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.