Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hey everybody, it is almost summer, just a couple days away from the 20th of June. I'm Jan Arden, you're listening to The Jan Arden Show podcast. Caitlin Green is here with me as always and she's slowly recovering. She sounds so, wait till you hear her voice. Adam Karsh, our engineer, is here as well from his studio in Toronto and here I am. You wouldn't believe where I am.
Yeah, you're not where we are. You're in a much more idyllic locale. Explain what you are currently looking at. I'm looking at my computer and there's a brick wall behind me. Well, I'm looking at my rather burnt kneecap, but as I turn to my left...
I'm looking out at the Pacific Ocean. I'm in Sydney, British Columbia, Vancouver Island. There's a giant pier. There's kind of a little mini half shell, little amphitheater. There's dogs running about. It just stopped raining. But yeah, I'm in Vancouver Island. I am satelliting out of a hotel here. It's one of my favorites. I can't tell you where it is. Yeah, Sydney, S-I-D-N-E-Y. It feels like there's a Sydney...
Like there's like a Sydney, Nova Scotia might not be always spelled the same way, but it's just one of those places where it's sort of, it's omnipresent. Yeah. No, there must have been, well, mind you, there was no communication back then. So people were making up names and Sydney seemed like a good one. But yeah, you're right. There's a Sydney everywhere. An S-Y-N-D-Y. I don't know why.
It's like the name Kristen. It's eyes, it's eyes, it's ease. You never know. But you know what? Adam and I were talking just before you got here about the opportunities that music has created for me the last 30 years. Adam was saying, you know, you were saying you had been in Vancouver many, once. Two times in Vancouver and once on Vancouver Island to visit Victoria. Yeah. And so music has enabled me to be here dozens and dozens of times.
And I have been to more places in Canada than probably any sitting prime minister. I'm sure you have. Well, that's one of those things that Canadians seem to say a lot is that, oh, I feel like I haven't really seen my own country. I haven't really traveled Canada. And Canada is so big and there are so few of us spread out over such a big amount of space that it's really expensive.
Like it's just an expensive place to live. I don't think people kind of who aren't from here get that. But travel is expensive. Airfare is expensive. This is why I oftentimes wind up in Europe instead of on the West Coast because it's less cost prohibitive from a flight cost perspective. So I've only gone to Vancouver three times and it's been years since I've gone. One was also for work and I've only been to Vancouver Island once and it was one of my...
It's beautiful.
You know, you look at Florida, you look at Arizona, you look at California. Yeah, we want, and I say we because I'm 60, we want warmer, easier weather to deal with. And Vancouver Island provides that. They don't get snow here, although in the last few years you will have seen
Pictures on the news of a lot of effing snow in these areas where people are like, no, didn't sign up for this. But you're right. I remember getting a flight to London. I think it was $470. It was economy. This was a few years ago. And going across Canada was like $1,270. It's so expensive. Yeah.
Yeah. And this was the thing, like I grew up spending my summers in PEI because that's where my dad's side of the family was from. And it's the most perfect place to go in the summer on earth. I just love it. I love all of the Maritimes so much. My husband's from Halifax. I have a real soft spot for the Maritimes as well as Quebec. But, um,
I think that people don't really go there that often because if you've ever looked into the cost of a flight and then a rental car and then, you know, a hotel in PEI, it's because they only have about eight weeks really of guaranteed great summer weather. So they have to make hay while the sun shines. It's true. And so the prices are high and it's not a hotspot. So there's not a lot of competition. People can kind of charge what they want and the flights don't go there that often. It's not a hub. It's not like a London or,
whatever. No, Oh my gosh, this is the best airport. When you get off of the plane, you get out, there's like two little conveyor belts for your luggage and you are in a field and outside right away, there's a picnic table and cow's ice cream and dairy in general has a big cow there. And you can like take a photo with the cow and then sit outside. And like my grandparents would come and pick us up and they'd always make little signs and they'd
Then they'd have like, you know, takeaway for us and we'd sit on the, you know, like we'd have an apple fritter and a little coffee and we'd sit on the picnic table. It was just, it's amazing. It, it just feels hopeful. And, you know, listening to memories like that, looking out the window of where I am, I don't think I've felt this positive and this optimistic for two and a half years. I haven't felt this positive in two and a half years because, because
because I have never tested positive for COVID until now. And she's still testing positive, folks. She gets near one of those little sticks and it's the double liner before she's even breathed on it, you know? If I look at a rapid test, it's just like, hi, do you want two lines?
I'm going to be one of those people who's fully recovered, feeling great and like not actually contagious, not a risk, but I still think my viral load is going to be such that I carry it around and it's going to cause some issues. Actually, here's a little thing for anyone listening who's tested positive for COVID with a home rapid test. Make sure you get a note from your doctor. So I sent in my rapid test with the date and everything to prove that I'm not faking this.
and I sent it in and I said, I need some kind of a letter to say that, yes, I tested positive on this date because gosh forbid we wind up in a situation where I need to prove that I ever had it for travel. Cause they're like, well, you're still testing positive or whatever. Or you maybe have long COVID symptoms and you want to make some sort of a claim with your insurance company because it's related to you. You need the proof. And like, I don't understand again, what,
Just give me 30 seconds to just say, I cannot believe it's been two years of this and no one knows how to deal with it. Like across the board, every single party, red tie, blue tie, I don't care what color your tie is, you're all screwing it up because nobody with symptoms can get a PCR test. I don't know how anyone's going to prove this. I'm so perpetually annoyed. I feel like an angry mom that just wants to come in here and be like, you kids have had two years to figure this out. Wow.
Well, that's palpable. That kind of frustration is palpable. And I think we can all agree that even now, the rapidly changing restrictions that are dropping, dropping, you know, tourism has been very adversely affected in Canada. They are trying to
you know, get people back here. Last week we spoke a little bit about, you know, the staffing problems in summertime resort areas like Banff where they're down 40%. And they're saying now that a lot of those reasons are because of the Arrive Can app that people are like, I just, I don't know how to fill it out. You know, older people that are having to take pictures of their passports and then send in proof of their vaccinations and they don't have smartphones. They might have a fucking...
flip phone. We'll beep that. They might have a flip phone from, you know, 1999 that they've been using and they don't have the ability to do that. So they're doing away with that. I think it's going to make a difference. And as you so aptly pointed out, Caitlin, it has been such a cluster of confusion that it's not going to make any difference at this point on the spread of COVID, on who's getting it. But anyhow, we've
We've got so many things to talk about today. Yeah, I know everyone's so sick of hearing about it, but I just think it's still helpful to know that your frustrations are not Indigenous just solely to you. So if you're at home listening to this, we are all trying to keep up with, you know, people want to go to the States, but they're worried. What am I going to need? Is it going to change with each customs guy? Like, no, there should be some kind of general thing that will happen in the next decade.
I would even say a few days here that this stuff is now gone. So get in your car, go travel. I don't think there's going to be any stipulation on what you need or showing vaccine. That's done. So hopefully people will stop marching around demanding their rights be met because there's no more.
Yeah, no one's treading on you. Calm down. And stop yelling at everyone on the internet. If you want to yell at someone, go yell at a ballot box next time. Well, it's Pride Month, so this is connected. They arrested 31 men that were headed in a rental van to go and disrupt a rally in the United States. These guys were on...
They had Kevlar vests on. One of the memes, and the reason I'm bringing this up, was that I guess you can breathe through a mask now because these were the types of people that were saying, this is against my rights. They were all masked.
And they were going to do something to disrupt the LGBTQ plus, you know, two spirit rally. Terrible. And anyway, they caught them. So, but, you know, it's just, it's so maddening to see this kind of stuff happen in 2022. What did that rally? How did that affect them? Those 31 white males, right?
How did that affect them? I don't understand why people in life can't just keep something moving where you're like, they want to scream at a tweet. They see, just keep scrolling. Just move on. It's not for you. The pride parade wasn't for you. This event isn't for you. This isn't for you. It's not about you. And I just feel like it's such a calmer place to live when you see something and you're like,
Oh, that's not my favorite thing. And first of all, I'm not okaying that someone's, you know, identity is not your favorite thing. You know, that's a crazy thing to think and it's horrible, but just keep it moving. Like, I don't understand how hard that is. It's, it stems from fear, fear, fear, and fear. And I'm not sure how it manifests into that kind of anger that,
I mean, it's such a stock response. We're going to get together. Anytime men get into groups, it somehow exacerbates the possibility of violence and destruction.
You think as individuals, if it was just one guy, it wouldn't get to that. You might say something disparaging on social media, but put 30 of them in a van with Kevlar vests and baseball bats and masks with their anonymity.
is paramount. They don't want anyone to know who they are. They're bowing their heads when they're arrested, they're masked up and they're being handcuffed. Anyway, uh, it just, we're going to talk about pride month and some great things that are happening when we come back. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast, but screw you guys. Okay. We'll be right back.
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We are back at the Jen Arden Podcast. We're here for you. Hey, listen. First of all, before we go any further, I want to do a little shout out to Russ Richards. Yes. Russ Richards over there in Wales. Yes. Is officially our number one fan. That's all I'm going to say. Yep. We thank you, Russ, for promoting us. We're going to send you a Tim Hortons coupon for when you come to Canada. Yes.
I don't think they have one over there, but thank you for your support. And thanks to all our listeners, to all you folks that have become friends of our show over the past couple of years. We really appreciate you guys joining in. And moving on. So Russ, get out there and promote us now. Yeah.
I love Russ. And also there's a Twitter space that's happening. Yes. For fans of the Jan Arden podcast that was organized by another super fan named Amanda. I know Amanda. Yeah, exactly. So basically they created a Twitter space that's going to be happening on June 19th at 11 a.m.,
on Twitter and you can follow Amanda at Amanda Herod, H E R R O D. And she said, it's a space for, you know, fans to come together to share stories and build an even stronger community. So cute. I love that. Oh, it's such a nice idea. I met Amanda from afar. Yes, I know you did. Pauline and Amanda were, as I was being escorted out of the venue in Edmonton and into the hotel, uh,
They were standing there so respectful. They were like 40 feet from me. And I think they were kind of taken aback because I said, Pauline. And she goes, and this is Amanda.
Because, you know, I've seen their pictures on social media. Well, they just lit up and they were very nice and they've just done some really cool things. Pauline has bought people tickets to my shows that otherwise wouldn't have been able to go. There's a real community there. I'm proud of that fact. Your fans are the nicest people. They're just lovely and supportive and kind.
Well, you know, this goes way back to MySpace. I had some real good fans in MySpace. But yeah, the 2019 should be fun. So if you want to say...
Some nice things, some, if you want to ask questions, I'm not sure what Amanda has planned, but, you know, I will try and remember that and tune in. Yeah, I want to join the conversation. I want to be part of it. Yes. That sounds like an ad for Twitter Spaces. I want to join the conversation. Whether you can sponsor us, now that Elon Musk doesn't own you, we would accept that. For sure. He might still try? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
It's Pride Month, and we haven't talked about that a lot.
And there's been lots of stuff going on, lots of parades, lots of celebrations. I think with the COVID restrictions lifting, as we spoke about at the top of the show, it seems like a whole new vibe for everybody to be together, to celebrate their queerness and just to be out there dancing. And of course, the weather is being kind of cooperative. What does that mean now?
To you guys and Caitlin, how do you think you've seen the queer community, you know, face challenges or are things better for them in the workplace? I mean, can you speak to that at all of how that looks in your life?
Well, I'm a boring old straight, but most of my, many of my best friends are gay. And I have to say, I just find the, I love, I love group organization. I love when people like get behind a cause and they really change things. And I do want to credit the, you know, gay and queer community with doing that, with like organizing and just being
and being very inspiring, even if you are not part of that community yourself, even if you're just an ally, it is a very inspiring thing to see how, how far that has come, how many differences have been made. And I think as a, as a,
woman, oftentimes some of my closest friends have been gay men and that they really support a lot of women's issues. And so there's like this kind of bridging of like, hey, we've all been kind of treated like shit at some point. So you can beep out that word. But
It just ends up feeling like there can be a camaraderie. And I don't know. June is such a great time. Toronto Pride is such an amazing time. The parade is one of the greatest days. The radio station I work for, CHUM, frequently will have a parade there.
And, you know, back pre-COVID, people would be handing you red solo cups of like vodka soda and like everyone is there and you see people hugging and just, you know, moms who, there were people, women wearing signs and they said like a supportive mom here giving out hugs and.
And it was like just supportive parents because that's not always everyone's coming out experience. And I just found that it was like everywhere you looked, it was like the smorgasbord of cool stuff happening. And I just, I love that about Pride so much. And in the workplace, I mean, yeah, like forces to be reckoned with. Hello. Yeah.
Well, I think the inclusivity, too, of Pride, we certainly don't expect just gay, lesbian, queer, trans people, BIPOC people to march down. We want that solidarity of all those communities. And it's not like everyone's welcome. And I think even...
In the music business, I've really seen things open up in a big way. And I have to give a shout out to Tegan and Sarah because they have been so instrumental. I've just been watching them navigate their own business stuff in the last few years and how they have really tried to create space for non-binary people, queer people, trans people in their organization, like doing jobs, right?
And I've actually seen, I've had people come to me like, do you know any gay, lesbian people that are doing front of house work or sound or lights? Tegan and Sarah are looking for people in their organization. And it really gave me pause to think about that. But just they always put their money where their mouth is. They walk the walk.
Yeah. And it's a nice social community vibe I find as well. Very supportive. Say your coming out experiences might not have been terribly supportive in your real life with your family. And then, you know, you're trying to bring your private life together. And so one of my friends at work, Shannon Burns, who, you know, she's a huge media personality, a
a ton of TikTok followers. She's great. She's the best. She's mega talented. Amazing. And she organized a pride picnic in Toronto recently. And again, this was a way to like bring together people socially. They went, got together in Christie pits and for everybody to connect and maybe make new friends and just feel that support from your own community. And that maybe you didn't have that. Cause I have so many friends where they,
they just had a varied experience. Maybe they were from a smaller town and they felt like they were, you know, the only gay in the village. And so that changes when you come to a major city. And that's why I think these big pride celebrations are so important and were so missed during the pandemic. My friend, Wendy Williams-Watt and I were having an interesting discussion recently and she made a good point. She goes, you know, I was thinking about the idea of acceptance and,
in the queer community. And she goes, I've always been so uncomfortable with someone saying to a queer person, I accept you, you know, and she was just like, Oh, how great of you to accept me for just being myself. Right. Like, yeah. No kind of elitist and presumptive and just out of touch and,
And I think we do have to be mindful of language. And people think they're doing such a great thing. I accept you. I accept you for how you are. Well, I don't give a crap if you accept me or not. Right. Because I don't accept your behavior. So, you know, I think that's not a cool thing. Just FYI for people out there that are saying, I've accepted my son. I don't like the tone of it. I don't like what it is.
sort of says in the big picture of things. It's not about that.
It's about understanding. It's about kindness. You know, even tolerance. To tolerate something is the minimal amount of something you can do to have tolerance. So the language, you know, maybe it's semantics, you guys, but some of the wording and some of the intention behind those words has to be modified. And I also feel as though it's the same thing when, you know, like the...
And again, I'm not a member of a racialized group. And so I will hear people say, and I think they mean well, but they're like, I don't see color. And I'm like, don't say that. That's so dismissive and crappy. You're like, well, all the people who are experiencing racism...
feel differently and don't want you to say that at all. So I do think that, yeah, we've come to a place where language is sort of ever-changing and there's more of a nuanced conversation about how what you say can make people feel. There was actually this week, now this is unrelated to ProSense,
pride, but Lizzo changed the lyrics to one of her songs. It was girls. And she said, you know, I realized that one of the words of my songs after it was pointed out to me was kind of rooted in ableism and being judgmental towards people who might've had disabilities. And so she just changed it. And like, that's all you have to do. Just be open-minded and then change it. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast. Lots to talk about today. Drive-ins, summer alcohol. We're going to be right back. Don't go away.
Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast. We have been talking about Pride Month, and just before we move on to new topics, I want
I am very proud to say that I am a queer person. And I just want people to know that. And I want young people to know that and older people to know that. Because if you're sitting in, you know, White Horse or Yellowknife or Prince George or somewhere in northern Ontario and you are a youth and you're wondering, what does it look like to be queer? Who is a queer person? I'm a queer person. I'm a successful person.
I have loving friends. I've had an incredible career. I'm very proud to be who I am. I am a completely well-rounded, balanced, intelligent, integral part of my community and my world. And you are too. So I don't ever...
Doubt yourself. And I know there's that thing out there, you know, things will get better. Well, things can get better and things can get worse. But all I'm telling you is that your life, you are absolutely perfect.
perfect and fine and you're gonna find your people and if people don't get you they're not your people yeah so keep moving and don't don't try and drag people along with you into a world that they're never gonna get it's their loss and i know that sounds like a cliche but it is anyways i just wanted to say that because i am a proud queer person
When did you think, you know, at some point in your life, because I know you had relationships with both sexes. And when were you like, you know, I think I'm also into like a same-sex option here and there. Like, when did that happen for you? Oh, my God. It came so late in my life. Like, and I know a lot of people have these absolute memories of, I was five years old. Yeah. I loved my teacher. Yeah.
I had feelings. I just knew. I knew that I didn't. And I never experienced that. So I was always looking for like, oh, my God, I don't think I'm like anybody. So that was kind of my experience. But I don't know why I was never bothered by it. I think it had so much to do with my mom.
And the way that they made their way through life, I never heard disparaging conversations like being afraid, listening to my dad point at the TV and go, those people should be... I didn't grow up in a house like that. And I know hundreds of thousands of kids did. They would hear their parents say something, well, you know there's something wrong with him. Yeah, bad. Not good.
Me, I didn't have that. When I went to college, college, let's hear it for college. Let's hear it for boxed white wine. And I was at my friend Leslie's house and I've written about this before. I think in Falling Backwards, I wrote about it. And I'd gone to, I never, never,
never crossed my mind. So I got out of high school. I had boyfriends. I remember loving Mark Coppithorn and that didn't work out so good. And so I got to my friend Leslie's house and we were drinking wine. And I was, I mean, I was pretty tipsy, but anyway, she's like, can I kiss you? Or anyways, we just started making out. I literally, my mouth was sore the next day.
From kissing Leslie. That's a solid makeup. And it was really solid. And I remember getting home. I mean, I think I stayed there until like well past dinner. Her mom came home. We had dinner. And it was just like I saw her at the classes like that week. And it was fine. But that was the first time where I thought, oh, my God, there's an option here. Yeah. There's clearly an option. And so then –
You know, I had relation, you know, got into a few kind of casual relationships. And I and I've told the story before, maybe not on the show, but I was in my 20s.
And I had broken up with this girl and I was just upset about it. And I remember being on the phone with my mom and my dad picked up the other phone and I was upset. And my mom was kind of trying to get out of me what had happened in a nice way. And I felt like I'd never really had a conversation with them about it.
you know, that I had a girlfriend. I didn't think I needed to because my mom was very intuitive as parents are. And I, so I finally said, well, you know, I broke up with blah, blah, blah. And, and she's like, you know, I hope that's okay. And my dad is on the, I could hear him breathing the whole time. I didn't care at that point. He's like, sweetheart, mom and I'd love you if you were pink with purple spots.
That's great. And I just never looked back. But it also gave me wings to – it was very liberating because I just thought my people, my parents are with me. So my story, which I never really had a coming out story, I was always very open with my friends. I just didn't – it didn't dawn on me that it was something –
Out of the ordinary. I was in a small community and they're like, oh, that's just jam.
I was very fortunate, but I was very unapologetic. And I never, my mom, my mom said, you're a normal person and you're a private person. And if people want to, if they, if they're trying to weasel into your private life, well, that's just like stealing. That's what mom used to say to me. They're trying to steal from you and you don't have to say anything. I don't,
waltz around talking about my private life. It's probably housekeeping. That's probably Poppy calling you. Let's just stay in real time here. Let's find out who it is. Sure. This will be fun. Flo Tan speaking. Formal greeting. Sorry? Yeah, as long as they're not let into the actual hotel, that would be okay. Okay.
Some people saw my Instagram post and they dropped off a gift because they know where I am. Oh, that's so nice. Okay. Well, that is extremely kind and I won't worry. And if I'll actually send my road manager. So maybe, maybe you can set it in front of his door.
His name is Chris Brunton. This is fun. The only people that call me are duck cleaning services. Yeah. Well, that's nice. They just saw my Instagram. I posted a picture of Poppy looking out the window. Aw. And they figured it out. And they figured it out. Anyway, that's my little story. So, a shout out to my mom and dad who... I miss my mom. I miss my dad, too. He was tough, but...
My story of sexuality is so different, and I have nothing but compassion for people that have such an absolutely polarizing experience with sex.
with how they come out and, and what they're faced with and being kicked out of their home. I'm telling you right now, suicide rates with, you know, the LGBTQ two spirit community. I'm probably saying that wrong is so, it's just so heartbreaking. It's a, you know, it's a, the stories are so varied in terms of, you know, experiences and, um, but yes, the statistics don't lie. No, they don't. It's, it's, uh, it's,
it's not the same for everybody. And some people feel very, very supported and others don't. And I know that growing up when I was younger, you know, it was like people used a lot of homophobic, like bullying terms and it was seen as like just commonplace. Right. And that's thankfully changed a lot, even in my lifetime, you know, when I'm a millennial, that's really, really changed. And I think attitudes towards requiring labels on everything, that's really starting to change.
And I just recently know the story about Rebel Wilson where she publicly shared that she is in a relationship with another woman. And she said, oh, I spent my whole life looking for a Disney prince and what I needed was a Disney princess. I thought the post was so great. And it turned out that behind the scenes there had been a media outlet in Australia that essentially forced her hand to come out with that because they had been made aware somehow of this information. And I think there were
basically telling her, well, you can comment on it, but we're going to, so like you bet you should do it before us. They kind of outed her in a way. Same on them. Yeah. So it's like your mom's point about like, you know, they're taking something from you. We've come such a long way as people in so many areas of life. And I think if you still look at humanity on the whole, we're improving, you know, we might still be flaming hot garbage in a lot of areas, but
But over time things are generally speaking getting better. And so I just look to those types of stories and think like that would have been so much more acceptable if,
years ago that a tabloid behaved that way and now they were just lambasted right away because people a-holes absolutely people just it's like you know let let everyone be who they are on their own time what is the issue I don't get it what does it matter for one thing we we're gonna be right back I guess we're gonna happy pride happy pride Jan Arden podcast I'm here with Caitlin Green Adam we'll be right back music
Welcome back. Jan Arden Podcast. And Caitlin Green just said she loves pride, and I love pride. I do. I really do. Yeah. I'm glad, Caitlin. It's so great to be an authentic, true ally. You know, to marginalize people, to people that have been...
persecuted, murdered. Well, welcome to the, welcome to anyone marginalized. Yeah. Welcome to the BIPOC community. Welcome to women over the last 4,000 years, 5,000. Let's make that 100,000 years. But anyway, yeah, it's, it's a really joyous time and it should be celebrated. We don't have a straight parade. I'm going to,
punch you in the throat. Yeah. I just don't. Okay. I just, again, I mostly, I just advice in life, keep it moving. Like, right. Like you don't, you don't like something, keep it moving. It's not about you. It doesn't all have to be about you. It doesn't have to be for you. You can just keep it moving. And I know that I probably have not always said exactly the right thing or whatever, but just like keeping that open as much as you can in these situations, keeping that kind of open non-confrontational mind and being like,
Dang it. Goal in life is probably not to make someone else feel like crap unnecessarily with the stuff I say. It's some people's goal. I feel smaller and less significant than me because I'm scared. So my fear is going to trump your comfort.
Yeah, that one. That's a humdinger. I mean, I see so much positive change, especially in younger generations, that it gives me a lot of hope for many issues that for a long time felt insurmountable. And now I just don't think it's going to be that way. And I do really think the lack of labeling is kind of helpful because it just allows people to...
you know, be who they are until they really figure it out. And then they can say how they feel about their identity when they want to, instead of everybody like with Rebel Wilson rushing around being like, I need to know about this. And you're like, do you? Does it really matter? Probably not. And sexuality, the spectrum thing with sexuality really resonates with me because I just know that in my experience,
experiences with friends and with family members, you know, the need that the human brain has to be like black and white and this and that, and to create this definitive space for everything to put in its little box. It's very comforting to some people, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense. Yeah. And it's not really how things are. So.
I also want to do a bit of an epilogue to my initial statement about being 19 and kissing Leslie and realizing that there's choices. I also want to be very clear in my messaging that being queer is not a choice. There is absolutely a genetic DNA disposition in my body that makes me attracted to women and men, mostly women, and
And, you know, when you're looking at that spectrum, I'm not, you know, way on this side 100%. I'm kind of wavering in there. And they've talked about the Kinsey scale that might be antiquated, but, you know, just that there is...
of a scale of how gay queer people are, how not. So I just want to reiterate that. I think it's important for me to say this is not, oh, I am choosing this because language is important. How we speak is important. And I have it in my being. That is what ticks boxes for me. It is not something that I just wish.
waved my hand in the air and went, oh, I'm going to do this. It is a genetic DNA disposition. And so, yeah, I just, I think I owe that to our listeners to definitely say that. Yeah. And that's what my, it's like, again, like some of my friends have said, and I've always talked about it with them and been like, you know, when did you first start to have crushes? Like wondering if it's around the same age as me. And I think different people experience their kind of sexual awakenings and
Yeah.
And the same thing for, you know, my gay male friends. And the timeline for that for kids was like, it was about the same that I felt for me. Like the first time I had a crush on like a neighbor or, you know, like you started, I always make fun of people that I have crushes on because I'm broken inside apparently. But so like, that would be something that I was like, oh yeah. When I started like razzing the guys that I had a crush on, it was around the same age. And I was like,
I don't know why everyone's focusing on the differences because it's really quite similar across the board. Oh, there's so many similarities. And we are, we are, you know, the rainbow has often represented queer people. They've included colors, obviously with, you know, the trans movement and the trans visibility, which has been so important, but it is so, we're so similar in so many ways, our emotional reactions to people. And, you know, some people don't want to be with anybody.
Yeah.
And you really have to think it through of why you are acting like that, why there's so much hatred towards, you know, the 31 guys that were just arrested. What is the point and what do you hope to do? They are estimating now that there is upwards of 20 to 25 percent of a global population that has, you know, sexual and gender differences that do not fit into this straight line.
you know, kind of that category. It's just, it's much bigger than people think. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Because human beings are diverse and different and unique and,
And, uh, anyway, it's like just all of our differences are exciting and at their root, we're all the same people who like want to have a happy, calm life and, and find love and live in comfort. And that's the same. Those needs are all the same across the board. So I'm like, just focused on our emotional needs a little bit, then you'd realize like, oh yeah, it's the exact same thing.
And also none of your business. It isn't. And I think, you know, for all of you guys listening that this conversation is causing you discomfort, I want to ask you to look into yourself and really examine whatever point at your life that you are, why...
Why is it discomfort? What makes it what other people do or how they behave? It's like anything. And I'll harken this back to conversations that we all had as teenagers. And that was imagining our parents having sex. No, thank you. No, I'm just thinking, you know, when you figure out the birds and the bees and how babies are made, that you're imagining now your parents that you know and love as these
staunch, whatever, non-sexual people, what they're doing. And it is a uncomfortable thing to think about. Yeah. I think immediately what people do with
gender with sexuality as they imagine the crazy things that going on i know as many gay people that have sex twice a year as i do straight people oh my god you know we've been married for 25 years you know it's birthdays and christmas for crying out loud it's not this it's not that what people picture of chandeliers and and you know swinging from this and that like
it's all an arc people. It's not every day is like this. Nuance is so often lost, right? And so the minute it's yours, Caitlin, the minute is yours. Oh, I don't know. No, I shouldn't try to wrap up the issue of pride as a straight person in the last minute of the show. Um,
But I just more, I more just feel like in general, like I respect the fact that it's a spectrum and I just would encourage people that when you feel uncomfortable with something, a lot of times that something is a little rooted in like societally induced shame. There's a lot of shame around sex in general. I mean, people who just pour foot fetishes out here who are just, you know, don't want to tell anyone that they like feet so much, but really that's a harmless fetish. So I don't understand why they get such a bad rap.
But I just think that it's so rooted in shame and it has so much to do with societal standards that are outdated. Religion, guilt. I was just going to say organized religion and guilt. These aren't great emotions and I don't think we should all cling on to them. Free yourself from the shackles of that and just, you know, like go give out some hugs and just if you don't like something, keep scrolling. But so many issues, abortion, things like that, inundated with religious overtones. What's the boss said?
you know, blah, blah, blah. Judgment day. Judgment day. Anyway, what a super way to leave today. Happy pride, everyone. We love all of you on the Jan show and we are proud people and, uh, hope you'll tune in, subscribe. We'll see you next week. Everything we wanted to talk about today was kind of set aside because this was an important issue. I'm glad we had a pride show and a look after yourselves. We will see you soon. Totally do.
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